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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-23

---Logopened Tue Feb 23 00:00:30 2010
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01:30<kd5pbo>Hi folks.
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01:38<Terkhen>good morning
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04:22<@peter1138>no you
04:22<kd5pbo>?
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04:32<Pikka>peter peter pumpkin eater
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04:38<Sacro>http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/b4ylu/dear_proggit_in_response_to_the_worst_programmer/c0kzjbl
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05:01<roboboy>hello
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05:17<HackaLittleBit>good moaning
05:17<roboboy>gmorning
05:17<kd5pbo>Morning.
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05:56<HackaBit>Imagine I have a tunnel with defined entrance and exit, and I do not wan't the pathfinder to continue to find a path
05:56<HackaBit>when the first tile it encounters from a tunnel is the exit.
05:56<HackaBit>Tunnel exit works like a one way signal that can only be passed from inside tunne to outside.
05:56<HackaBit>So tunnel works as one-way signal.
05:56<HackaBit>I would like to use a line like:
05:56<HackaBit>If (Exit(tile) && lookingdirectionis towardstunnel ) {
05:56<HackaBit>found inpassable signal
05:56<HackaBit>return
05:56<HackaBit>}
05:56<HackaBit>Question 1:
05:56<HackaBit>Do I have to look in the three PathFinders.?
05:56<HackaBit>Question 2:
05:56<HackaBit>I would like to use YAPF, so in wich file to look?
05:56<HackaBit>Is there anybody willing to give me a hint?
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05:59<Eddi|zuHause>you likely want to grep for "FollowTrack"
06:00<@Rubidium>1) no, 2) have you tried searching for 'YAPF'?
06:00<@Rubidium>unless you're working on some old version of OpenTTD ofcourse
06:01<HackaBit>working with trunk
06:02*roboboy ponders trying ti apply the OpenTTD ScreenSaver patch
06:03<HackaBit>but this is enough for now thanks, tonight I will contactfor more :)
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06:11<roboboy>why does it take for ever for my nightly builds of openttd to start. im using the release option
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06:42<Eddi|zuHause>large data directory?
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06:42<Eddi|zuHause>it must scan all newgrfs etc. for their MD5
06:42<PeterT><roboboy> why does it take for ever for my nightly builds of openttd to start. im using the release option <-- Shit happens?
06:43<roboboy>its most likel my Data dir is too large
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>there have been rare occurances of people having a "data" dir that had nothing to do with openttd, but was in the current working directory, so openttd scanned it
06:46<roboboy>whats the best way for me to update the revision my patchpack is applied to? Would SVN update be a good idea?
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>hg queues or git are a better idea for patch packs
06:49<PeterT>roboboy: Get another clean directory, updated to the given revision, then use your patch on that dir
06:49<roboboy>ok
06:49<Ammler>openttd doesn't compile on the oldest suse distro anymore: http://pastebin.ca/1806670 (SLES_9)
06:50<@Rubidium>should we start a vote on when this patchpack becomes unmaintained (i.e. it gets so big it becomes unmaintainable)?
06:51<Noldo>Ammler: which version of g++?
06:51<@Rubidium>why override the version with configure?
06:52<roboboy>but I get to chose what goes into my patchpack
06:53<@Rubidium>Noldo: I guess 3.3.x
06:57<Ammler>yes, installing cpp-3.3.3-43.41
07:00<@Rubidium>that's the c preprocessor
07:00<Ammler>RHEL 4 has cpp 3-4
07:00<SirSquidness>Why are there so many plane crashes in games with disasters off?
07:01<Ammler>3.4*
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>"gcc-c++-3.3.3-43.41"
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>"gcc-3.3.3-43.41"
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>those are the compilers
07:03<Ammler>for those old distro, I had to make lzo2 pack, now all rpm distros on obs works fine for 1.0
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07:03<Ammler>(well, except sles9)
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>'--menu-group=Game;StrategyGame;' <-- that doesn't sound right...
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07:06<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: syntax or the names?
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>the names
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07:06<Ammler>what else?
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause>don't know... but "strategy" isn't really in the game description :)
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>something with economy...
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>or simulation
07:09<@Rubidium>'Urban planning and simulation game'
07:10<Ammler>http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html#category-registry
07:10<Ammler>don't think, it is simulating...
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>"Simulation" i would choose
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's way more simulation than strategy ;)
07:11<Ammler>sim city is also in that caegory for example
07:12<@Rubidium>sim city is a strategy game?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably wrong then, too ;)
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>strategy is anything that involves getting to war, like civilization, master of orion, age of empires
07:13<Ammler>hmm, dunno, where I initially looked
07:13<Ammler>it is "Tactic & Strategy" in KDE
07:14<Ammler>well, what is the official openttd dev category?
07:15<Ammler>iirc none
07:15<roboboy>You could call OpenTTD simulation, infact CS called TTO Interactive Transport Simulator
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>really, anything that doesn't involve war, shouldn't go into strategy...
07:16<@SmatZ>SirSquidness: those aren't disasters; you can turn off crashes in the Advanced Settings (in 1.0 or nightlies)
07:16<Ammler>roboboy: it isn't the publisher, who tells the category.
07:16<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: does chess involve war?
07:17<kannerke>economy = war
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: knights fighting each other? certainly is war.
07:17<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: you don't need strategy, if you play in MP?
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07:18<@Rubidium>if OpenTTD is a strategy game, then TTD is and Railroad Tycoon is too
07:18<Ammler>he, maybe TTD was a simulator, but openttd isn't anymore ;-)
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07:19<SirSquidness>SmatZ: ah, kthnx
07:19<SirSquidness>SmatZ: any idea where the option is?
07:19<@Rubidium>according to http://www.andynash.com/nash-publications/2009-Nash-Web2forPT-14nov09.pdf OpenTTD is a simulation game
07:20<Ammler>well, I remove it...
07:20<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: some people say (yay weasels) that age of empires is both a simulation and a strategy game
07:21<SirSquidness>nm, found it
07:21<Ammler>SLES_9 ends at 31 Aug 2011
07:22<@SmatZ>SirSquidness: :)
07:22<Ammler>there is no supported debian distro anymore with a gcc 3.3?
07:23<Ammler>cpp*
07:23<@SmatZ>cpp 3.3?
07:23<Ammler>cpp-3.3.3
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: cpp is only the preprocessor
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>gcc is the c compiler
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>and gcc-c++ is the c++ compiler
07:24<@SmatZ>actually, it's only the frontend
07:24<@SmatZ>compiler is cc1/cc1plus
07:25<@SmatZ>gcc/g++ calls preprocessor, compiler, assembler and linker
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>nitpicking++ :p
07:25<@SmatZ>hehe
07:25<Ammler>libgcc-3.3.3
07:25<@SmatZ>that's some compatibility library for program compiled with old gcc
07:25<Ammler>SmatZ: http://pastebin.ca/1806670
07:26<Ammler>(the whole setup and compile with sles9, might be interesting at bottom :-)
07:27<@SmatZ>@commit 19207
07:27<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r19207 trunk/src/misc/str.hpp (2010-02-22 16:24:38 UTC)
07:27<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix (r19127): compilation was broken for gcc 3.3
07:27<@SmatZ>Ammler: ^^^
07:27<Ammler>0.7.5 worked with it
07:28<@SmatZ>it was broken by r19127
07:28<Ammler>ah, fine :-)
07:28<Ammler>so it will be fixed on next RC...
07:29<@SmatZ>yes
07:29<@SmatZ>or you can apply http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/fix_r19127_gcc33.diff
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07:31<Ammler>Fedora does the same: --add-category=StrategyGame
07:32<Ammler>blathijs: what category do you use?
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07:35<roboboy>ello andy
07:36<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I guess, packman uses simulator...
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08:06<Gar`zzz>Oh my god! A Dodo bird stole my keys! D8
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08:08<roboboy>what happened with the iphone/itouch port?
08:09<Gar`zzz>It turned and became starboard.
08:09<Gar`zzz>8D
08:12<blathijs>Ammler: Simulation I think
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08:49<roboboy>gmornight
08:52<@SmatZ>hello roboboy
08:52<roboboy>I managed to get DOS TTDP to start so long as I turned newstations off and enhancedgui off
08:54<roboboy>Apparently its something in enhancedgui thats broken and newstations automatically turns enhancedgui on if its turned on
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09:02<@SmatZ>roboboy: I have more problems running TTDP :( It fails to start with cargodest
09:03<@SmatZ>maybe it's a bug in dosbox....
09:04<roboboy>maybe
09:05<roboboy>well I might have a machine running win 95 by Sunday so I can test it under real DOS
09:06<roboboy>I have a spare PC lying around and its PS died but I can get a new PS for $30
09:07<@SmatZ>I have "old" PC too
09:08<@SmatZ>but it doesn't have CD drive
09:08<@SmatZ>mmmm floppies :)
09:08<roboboy>mine has both
09:08<roboboy>I destroyed a CD drive yesterday
09:09<roboboy>it wouldn't open so we pulled it apart to see if there was a CD in it
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>and you didn't happen to try the emergency eject button first?
09:10<roboboy>I did
09:11<roboboy>you mean the little hole to stick a paper clip into
09:11<@Belugas>\hello
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that one
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09:16<roboboy>gnight
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09:29<Gar`zzz>Hiya all!
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09:32<@SmatZ>night roboboy
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10:08<yorick>what happened to minilzo?
10:08<@peter1138>alas, poor yorick, it was removed
10:09<yorick>I noticed, but why
10:09<Belugas>for the Greater Good of Mankind
10:09<@peter1138>because a system library version of it exists
10:09<@peter1138>so we use that instead
10:09<@peter1138>so we have less code to maintain
10:09<yorick>didn't a system library version of it exist all the time?
10:10<@peter1138>probably. so?
10:10<yorick>:/
10:10<yorick>but then why not use that from the beginning
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>ammler just said for SLES 9 it didn't exist
10:11<yorick>hmm
10:11<Ammler>centos doesn't have it in the system repos
10:11<yorick>who uses lzo saves anyways
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>hysterical raisins
10:13<Ammler>(or RHEL)
10:13<@peter1138>yorick, well, we can't answer that. it has not been the same dev team from the beginning
10:14<planetmaker>the only thing constant is change ;-)
10:14<@peter1138>presumably originally it was felt a good idea to include it
10:14<@Rubidium>yeah, even the 'constant' speed of light is not constant
10:14<yorick>planetmaker: until it dies
10:14<planetmaker>besides it's not a hard requirement. So... not a bad thing
10:15<planetmaker>yorick, you think that then there's no change anymore?
10:15<Belugas>why are you concerned about minilzo, yorick?
10:15<yorick>because of the (optional) extra dependency
10:16<@Rubidium>peter1138: I reckon originally there were no external libraries. Adding LZO would mean adding a library 'infrastructure'. Over time zlib got added which introduced the library 'infrastructure', then more libraries came and finally minilzo got replaced by a library
10:16<@peter1138>yes
10:16<@Rubidium>besides that the standard minilzo headers cause an enormous amount of compile warnings with our set of warnings enabled
10:16<@peter1138>i think so too
10:17<@Rubidium>which means we need to mess with them, which is bad. Having the header in the system headers means gcc doesn't complain about it, i.e. no compile warnings
10:17<@peter1138>libopenttd :D
10:18<@Rubidium>yeah, then someone can write his own GUI!
10:19*yorick thinks it's an idea
10:21<Ammler>ajaxttd
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10:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't find the discussion anymore where it was said the maximum production of an industry depends on the number of tiles the industry has...
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10:33<@peter1138>does it depend on that?
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>i believe so, but i can't find the reference...
10:34<Belugas>that is... strange. I can't remember anything about that
10:35<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: was the reference in German? And written by, well say... one of the dimwits?
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it was german
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't remember
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10:40<Eddi|zuHause>it involved coop people talking about how they load balanced four factories, or something...
10:46<Ammler>the game with "WP-bug"
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>"The goal of was to transport enough grain and livestock to produce 100,000 crates of goods per month.[1]. Later in the game we were limited by OTTD production limit of secondaries, which is roughly 2295 per industry tile per month. For factories, it means 27,540 crates of goods per month - so we had to build four factories and balance them well. We managed to accomplish our goal in 2177."
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>public server game 121
10:49<@peter1138>ah, openttdcoop?
10:49<@peter1138>they rarely know what they're talking about
10:50<Ammler>:-)
10:51<@peter1138>isn't 2295 the limit per industry? not per tile..
10:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19219 /trunk/src/music.cpp: -Fix: having OpenMSX's files in a subdirectory did not work as it should.
10:52<Yexo>peter1138: only for primary industries
10:54<@peter1138>so is it right?
10:55<Yexo>I don't know, it might be right
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10:58<Belugas>a fun fact: industries have absolutely no clue how many tiles they are composed of
10:59<@Rubidium>looks like every tileloop cargo is transported
11:00<planetmaker><peter1138> isn't 2295 the limit per industry? not per tile. <-- definitely not for secondary. For primary at least close
11:01<planetmaker>The limit mentioned in the quoted text is one "experimentally" established by one of those "heavy-duty" players ;-)
11:01<planetmaker>e.g. if you show a (default) factory to produce significantly more, I'm happy to see it, otherwise I tend to believe that statement.
11:02<Ammler>coop is ALWAYS right :-P
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11:05<@Rubidium>once every 256 ticks for every tile at most 255 of the waiting produced cargo is moved to the produced cargo
11:05<Belugas>mmh... i hate that... can't remenber where the funiton is located withouth useuign a grep :(
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11:06*planetmaker hugs Belugas
11:06<planetmaker>grab the grep ;-)
11:06<@Rubidium>meaning an average of 2244 per tile per month
11:08<planetmaker>quite close then what was actually produced ;-)
11:08<@Rubidium>which means on average a little under 27000 per month per 12-tile factory
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11:08<@Rubidium>assuming 365.25/12 days per average month
11:09<planetmaker>@calc 9*256
11:09<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2304
11:09<planetmaker>@calc 9*256*12
11:09<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 27648
11:10<planetmaker>^ if it's amonth with 9 of such consumption events
11:10<@Rubidium>nope
11:10<@Rubidium>27540 is the right number
11:11<planetmaker>hm, how does it calculate?
11:11<@Rubidium>like I described, but you're mixing up numbers
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: does that mean only tiles within reach of a station get considered?
11:12<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: no
11:12<planetmaker>@calc 9*255*12
11:12<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 27540
11:12<@Rubidium>moving production happens in the tile loop, which runs over *all* tiles
11:12<planetmaker>right ;-)
11:13<Belugas>so the only limit is the amx 255 per tile per loop
11:13<planetmaker>that's the cause. The rest are then derived limits
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but how is the station found that should get these 255 goods?
11:13<Belugas>ah... station_cmd.cpp...
11:14<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, in the usual way, I assume?
11:14<Belugas>Eddi|zuHause : MoveGoodsToStation -> station_cmd.cpp
11:14<Belugas>at least on the version i have...
11:15<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: the station is found using the 'location' of the industry
11:15<@Rubidium>i.e. the bounding box of the industry
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>ah, ok
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11:18<Eddi|zuHause>i don't find a filter for location in MoveGoodsToStation...
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11:28<Ammler>Error: Assertion failed at line 102 of /usr/src/OpenTTD/compile/src/os/unix/unix.cpp: path[strlen(path) - 1] == PATHSEPCHAR <-- with nightly r19163
11:28<Ammler>on startup
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>so the path didn't end with a pathsep
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11:31<Eddi|zuHause>can you -d <high level> to find out which file it's trying to open?
11:31<@Rubidium>what the where you doing
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11:32<Eddi|zuHause>feature request: disable sounds in the title screen
11:32<@Rubidium>use nosound!
11:32<@Rubidium>or use another title screen
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>feature request: disable sounds _only_ in the title screen
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11:33<@Rubidium>oh, that reminds me
11:33<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, use your loud speakers volume control ;-)
11:33<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: ./configure --without-zlib && make run
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
11:36<Ammler>http://pastebin.ca/1807004
11:36<Ammler>dunno, if there is more visible
11:37<Ammler>it looks like something with the system
11:37<Ammler>as self compiled also Asserts
11:37<Ammler>but the package (1.0-RC1) I just made works
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11:43<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i usually like the sounds, but they get annoing very fast when doing something on the main menu, like settings or online content
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>so... cargodist or not?
11:44<Ammler>fresh compiled trunkt tip: http://pastebin.ca/1807008
11:45<@Rubidium>Ammler: build a debug build and run it in gdb; maybe then some useful information is retained
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, especially the value of path might be useful
11:51<Ammler>it is something in the trunk, branch 1.0 works
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11:52<@Rubidium>but the diff between both isn't that big
11:54<Ammler>make run-gdb is the target for debug?
11:55<@Rubidium>you said r19163 is broken too, right?
11:55<Ammler>no
11:55<Ammler>something is broken with my last suse update
11:55<Ammler>where I can't run it anymore
11:56<@Rubidium>libc?
11:56<Ammler>possible
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11:58<Eddi|zuHause>make run-gdb is for running in the debugger, it doesn't magically configure an unstripped/debug build
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>for that you do somthing like ./configure --enable-debug 3 or so...
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12:00<Ammler>oh, fresh compiled 1.0 fails too
12:00<Ammler>:-(
12:03<Ammler>oh, RC1 does compile without asserts?
12:04<Ammler>then, this is the reason, that works :-)
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, releases tend to have asserts disabled
12:04<@Rubidium>it compiles with asserts
12:04<Ammler>thought, thought prereleases don't
12:04<Ammler>don't without*
12:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: only 'stable' gets released with asserts disabled; the rest has asserts enabled
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>alright...
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12:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... updating cargodist takes so long i lose interest in it before it's finished...
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12:34<Ammler>http://pastebin.ca/1807049 <-- what next?
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>"bt"
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>then "up" [enter]* until you are in a function that's not a crash handler
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>then something like "print path"
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12:36<Yexo>or directly "bt full" and copy all output
12:36<Ammler>http://pastebin.ca/1807053
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: looks like it's recursing through "openttd" directories (symlinks?)
12:37<@Rubidium>ooh... symlink massacre :)
12:38<@Rubidium>odd that that didn't happen before and only after a recompile
12:38<Ammler>those are fresh checkouts
12:38<Ammler>no additional files
12:38<Ammler>(or symlinks)
12:39<Ammler>ah, in openttd/data, ok :-)
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: so then what is /usr/local/share/games/openttd/data/openttd?
12:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19220 /trunk/os/windows/installer/install.nsi: -Change: remove NoSound from the installer and add OpenMSX.
12:39<Ammler>I added that, so local installs can use the opengfx installed with rpm
12:39<Ammler>or local compiles
12:40<Ammler>but that worked once...
12:41<@Rubidium>the code seems to imply that you've got an infinite recursion with symlinks (or something is horribly wrong with libc)
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: that is not an answer to my question
12:42<Ammler>Oh, I see :-)
12:42<Ammler>inspiron:/usr/share/openttd/data # l openttd
12:42<Ammler>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1 2010-02-22 16:25 openttd -> ./
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and that's what it chokes on...
12:43<@Rubidium>so, infinite recursion
12:43<Ammler>yes, I forgot to remove that again from the "backport"...
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>because it gets longer and longer, until the path does not fit into the buffer anymore
12:43<@Rubidium>be happy there're no massive amounts on NewGRFs in those dirs because then it takes ages before it starts (if at all)
12:44<Ammler>openttd branches to symlink the trunk openttd
12:44<Ammler>do*
12:44<Ammler>because shared-dir didn't work
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>what?
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12:46<Eddi|zuHause>ah, so you make a sumlink openttd-branch/data -> openttd/data
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>symlink
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>but why does shared dir not work?
12:46<Ammler>that is a windows only feature, afaik.
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>shared-dir was introduced for mac, with the comment "this should work for other platforms as well"
12:47<Ammler>or mac :-)
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>if it doesn't work, it might be useful to fix
12:47<Ammler>maybe, I should try again...
12:48<Ammler>but thanks, cool debug helped
12:49<Yexo>Ammler: does it still crash if you apply this patch?
12:49<Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/fix.diff
12:50<@Rubidium>Yexo: probably not
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12:51<Ammler>hmm, do I need to rebuild?
12:51<@Rubidium>because if path+d_name isn't truncated there, it can still get in trouble at the AppendPathSeparator at line 768
12:51<Ammler>it compiled filio.cpp only and still asserted
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>what if the path truncates exactly at the pathsep?
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12:54<Eddi|zuHause>is there a function that checks whether two files/directories opened via different paths are the same?
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause>hey... that can't be right... git fetch is still running...
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's over an HOUR now...
13:03<Belugas>bwarf.. wasted my lunch hour.... nothing to shoot:( grey day = grey pictures
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>Resuming fetch of pack 6070560482e8fff0718af0ca76680e4c9a106c2c at byte 113267520 <-- why is that more than 100MB?!?
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>and where is fonsinchen?
13:08<@Rubidium>he can't join because his internet is too slow?
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>no really, wtf is git doing there?!
13:09<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: What are you git fetching?
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: cargodist
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git
13:09<OwenS>You do realise Git fetches the repo's full history, right?
13:10<SpComb^>OwenS: not clone, fetch
13:10<SpComb^>OwenS: i.e. update over the last week or two
13:10<OwenS>Hmm.. Someone's been doing too many git rebases?
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, one or two months maybe
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: how is that relevant?
13:11<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: git rebase = history rewriting
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13:11<OwenS>If one rebases significantly then they can cause all the hashes in their repo to change (i.e. complete refetch)
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what that means...
13:12<OwenS>In other words, all the revision IDs have changed because the maintainer has trashed the repo's history
13:13<OwenS>Alternatively, it could be because you're using git over http, as git http support is dumb
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's fucking annoying...
13:14<OwenS>Tell him to set up a git-daemon instance (i.e. git://) or use SSH :p
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13:23<Eddi|zuHause>-r--r--r-- 1 johannes users 134436889 30. Dez 15:20 pack-941035bd025be71a1a80f70b805a90214dbc78c5.pack
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>-rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 133544145 9. Jan 19:45 pack-fb9557f0498116a53566bd1ababfc2d9bae248e9.pack
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>-rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 135002880 23. Feb 19:18 pack-6070560482e8fff0718af0ca76680e4c9a106c2c.pack.temp
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13:32<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: ls -lh
13:33-!-jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: doesn't change that the files are >100MB :p
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13:36<SpComb^>makes it more obvious
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause>-rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 145795108 23. Feb 19:30 pack-6070560482e8fff0718af0ca76680e4c9a106c2c.pack <-- the file is now done, not sure what git is doing now...
13:41<aber>What's the mnemonic for -h ?
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>human readable?
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19221 /trunk/src/lang/ (19 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 44 changes by Kayos
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frisian - 35 changes by Fopper
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14:49<sparr>I'm trying not to spam too much about the cargo competition bug... I replied to the relevant thread on the forums, but someone previously mentioned that similar issues should go in the development forum instead of the problems forum. Is that common?
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>only patches and problems with these patches go in the development forum
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15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i don't suppose there's a road vehicle set that goes with NARS
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15:43<PeterT>[15:42:08] <PeterT> Your logic is wrong
15:43<PeterT>[15:42:18] <Mega> logic cant be wrong
15:43<PeterT>Sign
15:43<PeterT>*Sigh
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>that's logical ;)
15:49<__ln__>well why not
15:49<__ln__>logic is based on some theorems; if they contradict each other, then isn't that wrong
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>"contradictory" and "wrong" are two entirely separate things
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>err... segmentation fault...
15:52<__ln__>see
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15:53<Eddi|zuHause>and now inflate() failed?
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>funny... i downloaded a 3.7MB file, but it is 8.7MB large :p
15:56<PeterT>You're 8.7MB large.
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16:05<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: i'm not familiar with that culture, but is that the place to provoke a "that's what she said"?
16:12<PeterT>No
16:12<PeterT>Something like: "It hurt me to put it in." would be a that's what she said
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>oh... i thought anything that involved the word "large" or "small" or otherwise playing on size would be appropriate...
16:14*Eddi|zuHause goes writing in his notes again: still not understood culture...
16:16<PeterT>Right
16:16<PeterT>well
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16:16<PeterT>"Oh gawd, that is way too big for me!" Would work
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>it's way easier over here... kids just laugh at everything involving the number 6
16:19<PeterT>That doesn't make very much sense?
16:19<Nite_Owl>The Prisoner fans are they ??
16:19<PeterT>6 isn't a very sexual number, 69 perhaps
16:20<__ln__>that's pornographic, not sexual
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: it's that 6 is "sechs" in german, which sounds the same as "sex"
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>only the s is a little sharper in "sex" than in "sechs"
16:25<frosch123>that difference is smaller than the word spoken in various dialects
16:26*Nite_Owl revels in the obscure
16:27<PeterT>Google translate does not have an audio version of "Sechs" :-(
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sechs
16:29<PeterT>In german, it sounds more like "zex"
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i said, the s in "sex" is sharper...
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>voiceless
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: it's close enough to make fun of when you're 12...
16:36<aber>http://dict.leo.org/
16:37<ashb>"That's what she said" can be used as a retort for pretty much anything
16:37<ashb>as can "So's your face"
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i can never remember how to set the parameters of ECS
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>especially because the "general behaviour" parameter is not always the first one...
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what george was thinking...
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17:12<Terkhen>good night
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17:20<__ln__>är kanalens jourhavande svensk på kanalen?
17:21<SpComb^>"I verify in the Boot Dock if I put the oil boat to put there the oil to pass to a train the oil despaired if there are no train in the dock"
17:21<SpComb^>intelligble
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>english only.
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: he says "when i transfer oil from a ship to a train, and there is no train waiting, the oil disappears
17:23<__ln__>some would call that an environmental catastrophe
17:23<Nite_Owl>not everyone is brilliant or even multilingual
17:25<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: fonso replied, you need to tell him it wasn't a clone
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17:28<CrazySpai>Hello once again
17:29<CrazySpai>I've looked all around and yet cannont find the answer to my question, what is the purpose of the "stocks" if they are always greyed out?
17:30<@Rubidium>you need to enable them via advanced settings
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>also the company must be more than 6(?) years old
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17:35<PeterT>Yes, 6
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>hahaha, he said 6! :p
17:35<PeterT>I said six.
17:36<PeterT>it's not that funny-sounding when you read in English
17:37<devilsadvocate>"är kanalens jourhavande svensk på kanalen?" translates to ""I verify in the Boot Dock if I put the oil boat to put there the oil to pass to a train the oil despaired if there are no train in the dock"?
17:37<devilsadvocate>thats a high density language :\
17:37<CrazySpai>How does one enable stocks via the openttd config file?
17:38<CrazySpai>nvm
17:38<CrazySpai>Found it
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17:49<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: So then the only way for someone to understand the "6" joke, is if they knew what the word "sex" is
17:49<PeterT>Is it the same in German?
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's fairly well-known ;)
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>you know, german words are longer than english words, so english words have it easy to sift into the language
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>so, if you compare "sex" to "Geschlechtsverkehr"...
17:53<PeterT>haha
17:53<PeterT>Geschlechtsverkehr is secks?
17:53<@Rubidium>well, you Germans are good in making your own words :)
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>plus, you hear it in movies and songs...
17:53<devilsadvocate>does anyone actually _use_ that word in conversation?
17:54<@Rubidium>what? They don't dub songs?
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17:54<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: actually, they do ;)
17:54<lugo>gelb gelb gelb ist die yellow suybmarin
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>the beatles actually translated some of their songs into german
17:56<@Rubidium>ah well, we just export our crappy presenters to you lot :)
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>what i meant: even in dubbed movies they use the word "sex"
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: "Geschlechtsverkehr" means "sexual intercourse", only the germans have no funny abbreviation...
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>occasionally "GV"...
18:03<PeterT>funny abbreviation?
18:03<PeterT>!logs
18:03<PeterT>@logs
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... is it normal that the ECS cement plant accepts "regearing"?
18:06<Yexo>you use nars?
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
18:06<Coco-Banana-Man>nope, but NARS replaces limestone with (regearing)
18:06<Yexo>nars only works with ecs if you disable regearing
18:06<Yexo>there is some parameter for it
18:07<Coco-Banana-Man>I'm loading NARS before ECS so my locos are loading limestone :P
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>if only they would say that from within openttd
18:07<Coco-Banana-Man>hmm
18:07<Nite_Owl>It might be on the NARS wiki
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>just fucking tell the parameters in the description, damnit!
18:08<Coco-Banana-Man>but when I loaded ECS and NARS together (with NARS after ECS), the cement plant only accepted Sand and no limestone/regearing :/
18:08<Coco-Banana-Man>and the quarry was only accepting vehicles and not producing anything.
18:09<Coco-Banana-Man>what do you mean by description, Eddi?
18:09<Nite_Owl>I have the parameters on a text file on, I think, page 25 of the NARS thread
18:09<Coco-Banana-Man>the readme file or that in-game box?
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>the ingame box
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>as in Action 8 - grfid - name - description
18:10<Coco-Banana-Man>There are probably far too much parameters to show them there...
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>there is plenty of space
18:10<Coco-Banana-Man>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=NARS_GRF_Parameters
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>by trial-and-error, 2 seems to be the right parameter
18:12<Nite_Owl>correct - 1st parameter = 2 disables regearing
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18:16<Nite_Owl>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=811651#p811651
18:16<Nite_Owl>page 21 - my bad - that is the text file
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18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19222 /branches/1.0/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Change: Improve error message with track building when signals are in the way (r19190, r19189)
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: GetDestination() is invalid for nearest-depot orders (r19210)
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Compilation was broken for gcc 3.3 (r19207)
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: The vehicle info in the autoreplace gui was drawn even when the window was shaded [FS#3634] (r19187)
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: When selecting 'build many industries' in the scenario editor the 'build' button was not enabled [FS#3632] (r19176)
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18:21<Nite_Owl>now that was odd
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>no, both your quit time and your join time are even ;)
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18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19223 /branches/1.0/ (32 files in 8 dirs):
18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: Add OpenMSX to the installer (r19220, r19219)
18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: [NewGRF] Add CB36 support for aircraft properties 0F and 11 (r19218)
18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: Scroll to current order destination when ctrl+clicking the start/stop bar (r19216, r19215)
18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: Concept of fallback base sets, i.e. do not automatically load the NoMusic/NoSound sets when there is another set; make NoSound part of base installations (r19214, r19213, r19212, r19211, r19206)
18:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: Support for genders for cargos, industries, vehicles, stations (r19180, r19179, r19178, r19177)
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18:27<Nite_Owl>not that but the fact that it was involuntary
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18:34<Eddi|zuHause>what about genders for newgrf strings?
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18:35<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that needs some very serious work/design first
18:36<@Rubidium>I've brainstormed about it quite a number of times, but it's pretty darn non-trivial
18:36<@Rubidium>e.g. genders can change over time making the mapping in the NewGRF invalid
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, that should be the responsibility of the newgrf author
18:37<@Rubidium>also there needs to be some sort of way to encode cases, although it has more or less the same problems
18:38<@Rubidium>and then ttdp needs some way to filter the gender/case code out of the strings before drawing
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>openttd should only add some sanity checks for genders/cases in case they mismatch
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>and fallback to the default behaviour in that case
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18:57<Nite_Owl>need to feed - later all
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 24 00:00:31 2010