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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-25

---Logopened Thu Feb 25 00:00:33 2010
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01:37<Terkhen>good morning
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02:40<Terkhen>taking up a project after two months of pause is difficult :/
02:43<roboboy>if I was to test the DOS port of OpenTTD would it be prefered if I tested it under DOS 6 or DOS 7?
02:45<roboboy>I plan to resurect an old PC on the weekend which is only capable of runing NT4 or 95 or older
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02:47<Terkhen>isn't DOS 7 part of Windows 95?
02:48<ccfreak2k>Yes, Windows 95 and 98 had DOS "7" in it, I think.
02:50<roboboy>ME had DOS 8 im not sure if 98 had it or 7
02:51<roboboy>but would it be better to test it under standalone DOS or the DOS that comes with 95?
02:55<Terkhen>I don't know for sure, but DOS 7 seems unofficial; I'd go with 6
03:03<Terkhen>I'll try OpenTTD in my old 386 some day to see what happens, it barely satisfies Transport Tycoon Deluxe requirements
03:23<roboboy>where should I search to find the code that looks after the various keyboard shortcuts?
03:26<Terkhen>most of them are at toolbar_gui.cpp (search for 'Q')
03:26<ccfreak2k>IIRC keystrokes are sent/filtered by individual GUI elements.
03:27<ccfreak2k>The toolbar catches the mosr.
03:27<Terkhen>Ctrl+Click shortcuts are coded in a different way, IIRC the variable was called _ctrl_pressed
03:29<ccfreak2k>There's an SDL event loop in one of the files; I'd start there.
03:31<roboboy>I found what I was looking for
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03:47<roboboy>lets see if I can change what ctrl s does in openttd
03:48*roboboy waits for OpenTTD to build
03:54<planetmaker>roboboy, it creates a screenshot ;-) At least usually
03:54<roboboy>and I wanted to change it to bring up the savewindow
03:54<planetmaker>hm. For me there's a difference between command+s and ctrl+s ;-)
03:55<planetmaker>hello-dih-ho ;-)
03:56<roboboy>yey my changes worked
03:56*roboboy creates a diff
03:58<planetmaker>roboboy, it might be more useful to update or rather rewrite something like[0]=&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
04:04<roboboy>hm I could look at it, but im not fluent in C++ yet
04:05<planetmaker>let me highlight the only important word: _yet_ ;-)
04:16<dihedral>define 'fluent' :-P
04:25<@Rubidium>dihedral: !"not fluent"
04:26<dihedral>!!fluent does it too... if you want to define it that way :-P
04:26<dihedral>at least it would in some languages
04:26*peter1138 ponders some random data
04:27<dihedral>cat /dev/random | peter1138
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04:28<peter1138>doesn't work in a GetRandomBits() function :(
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04:42<OwenS>Why must people make docxs? :(
04:42<Noldo>because their office version pushes them to
04:43<@Rubidium>OwenS: to show everyone that they have folded for MS' ribbon crap
04:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19235 /trunk/src/newgrf_railtype.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] Add 2 bits of pseudo-random data for rail types, based on tile location.
04:43<OwenS>They're a pain to open because everthing goes "Ooh! This is a zip file" (At least ODF is recognized widely now)
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06:05<Peping>hi :)
06:06<Peping>I'm quite new to the idea of playing OpenTTD on my cellphone. Are there actually any (even unofficial) builds of Openttd for Windows Mobile?
06:06<peter1138>oh, including unofficial, probably
06:07<@Rubidium>wasn't there like an ancient version?
06:07<@Rubidium>ancient as in five year-ish old
06:07<Peping>I know about 0.6.0 for WinCE. What about 1.0.0? Has anybody announced that he'll build it form WinCE?
06:09<@Rubidium>not here at least
06:09<Peping>oh.. Thanks anyway..
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06:18<PeterT>Hello roboboy
06:20*roboboy wonders if DJGPP will run under DOSBox and compile OpenTTD under DOSBox
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06:22<roboboy>well its likely on Sunday I will have to compile OpenTTD for DOS myself anyway
06:26<peter1138>roboboy, why wouldn't it work? it's made for dos...
06:27<peter1138>although i dunno if it will actually compile openttd :)
06:28<roboboy>DOSBox might not implement all the bits of DOS a compiler needs as DOSBox is aimed at games (Yes I know Windows 3.11 will run under DOSBox)
06:29<peter1138>no, dosbox just emulates a dos-based pc
06:29<peter1138>a compiler won't need anything special
06:33<peter1138>go on roboboy...
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06:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19236 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: move method code into class definition (skidd13)
06:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19237 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: use types directly and prefer uint instead of int (skidd13)
06:46<PeterT>Where is this skidd13 person?
06:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19238 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: Unify the HeapifyDown code (skidd13)
06:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19239 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Cleanup: Move the HeapifyDown code into its own method (skidd13)
06:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19240 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: Unify HeapifyUp code (skidd13)
06:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19241 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Cleanup: Move the HeapifyUp code into its own method (skidd13)
06:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19242 /trunk/src/ (misc/binaryheap.hpp pathfinder/yapf/nodelist.hpp):
06:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Perfer pointer instead of reference (skidd13)
06:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: merge PopHead() and RemoveHead() into Shift()
06:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19243 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: rename var's to fit better to common style (skidd13)
06:49<PeterT>Commit spree
06:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19244 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: Remove function call if consistency-check is not used (skidd13)
06:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19245 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Codechange: apply coding style to binary heap (skidd13)
06:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19246 /trunk/src/misc/binaryheap.hpp: -Doc: CBinaryHeapT (skidd13)
06:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19247 /trunk/src/ (misc/binaryheap.hpp pathfinder/yapf/nodelist.hpp): -Codechange: Rename methods to fit better to common style (skidd13)
06:53*roboboy skips setting DJGPP up
06:54<roboboy>I shall look for other more likely easier routes
06:57<dihedral>Yexo: where did that come from?
06:57<dihedral>have not seen skidd in a long time....
06:58<Yexo>@fs 3461
06:58<Yexo>skidd has been busy lately
06:58<dihedral>i thought he left openttd.... for studies
07:00<peter1138>is there any nice openssl gui tool? i need to make a key and request, and i always forget the command line options...
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07:02<peter1138>that does not generate ssl keys
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07:07<planetmaker> <-- I think it does, peter1138
07:08<SpComb^>why are the ships/harbors in Settlers II so buggy :(
07:09<Noldo>in what way?
07:09<SpComb^>all my far too rare soldiers just walk back and forth between harbors, and the ships just drive around empty 95% of the time
07:09<peter1138>planetmaker, why do you think it does?
07:09<Ammler>peter1138: webmin or the tool from the authorization
07:09<planetmaker>peter1138, as l=h ;-) nvm
07:10<peter1138>webmin? fuck off.
07:10<peter1138>"tool from the authorization" ... bit vague
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07:11<Ammler>I mean, those companies, which certs your keys do also mostly support nice generation of those...
07:16<dihedral>yikes - that looks like skidd did do a lot in the last few weeks
07:27<roboboy>what is the best way for me to compile OpenTTD for DOS? build a cross compiler under Mingw?
07:31<dihedral>where will the r20k party be?
07:31<peter1138>your house
07:32<@Rubidium>dihedral: at pm's
07:32<dihedral>if my dad is still ... there .... then no
07:32<dihedral>also a good option
07:32<@Rubidium>oh, and for what it's worth... opengfx does not work out-of-the-box on DOS
07:36<roboboy>I wonder why?
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07:36<@orudge>OpenTTD for DOS :)
07:36*orudge probably still has his hacky patches somewhere to get networking working via WaTTCP
07:38*dihedral only knows WaTTheFuck
07:39<@Rubidium>though I kinda abandoned the DOS port because 'we' couldn't get it to work on real hardware
07:39<@orudge>I recall running a server on FreeDOS which I could happily connect to from other machines
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07:39<@orudge>it was a little slow alas
07:40<@orudge>Rubidium: hmm, Allegro issues I guess? At least, I tend to find getting high-res games, etc, to work on real machines to be quite a challenge if you don't have a suitably old graphics card
07:40<@Rubidium>orudge: yeah
07:40<roboboy>well i'm likely to be setting up an old PC with DOS on it on Sunday
07:40<roboboy>the machine came with Win98 on it
07:41<roboboy>ill have to hunt graphics card drivers though
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07:49<planetmaker><Rubidium> dihedral: at pm's <-- do you know by heart the current commit count?
07:50<@Rubidium>19247+975? :)
07:50<planetmaker>s/count/rate/ ;-)
07:51<@Rubidium>73 last week, 300 last month
07:51<planetmaker>975 is the offset of the current svn repo, right? hm... :-)
07:51<planetmaker>so about two months, 1st April ;-)
07:53<@Rubidium>april first is in 5 weeks
07:53<planetmaker>err... yes.
07:53<planetmaker>1st May :-)
07:53<Yexo>+- 10 per day, so 1st april we'll be around r19600
07:54<planetmaker>so... yes :-) Feel invited for the 20k party :-)
07:54<planetmaker>weekend 1st May
07:54<planetmaker>The Dutch invasion ;-)
07:54<roboboy>what is the best way for me to compile OpenTTD for DOS? build a cross compiler under Mingw?
07:56<@Rubidium>roboboy: I don't know what the best way is; ask DJ. I'm cross-compiling from Linux
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07:58<@orudge>roboboy: in theory you should just be able to download and install DJGPP, although you'll want to install a more comprehensive UNIX-like environment
07:58<@orudge>all of which can be found on the DJGPP site
07:58<@orudge>I think last time I built OpenTTD for DOS though, I also cross-compiled via Linux though
08:00<peter1138>shouldn't be hard to just grab the bits and try it
08:01*orudge grabs peter1138's bits and tries it
08:01<@Rubidium>yup, it's like 20-30 minutes work for downloading a complete i386 chroot + the required binaries/libraries
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08:04<supdood>is it possible to play a multiplayer game with ai?
08:05<Eddi|zuHause><SpComb^> why are the ships/harbors in Settlers II so buggy :( <-- they reworked ships for S2 TNG
08:05<Forked>too bad about the new DRM in settlers 7..
08:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19248 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp stdafx.h): -Fix: DOS 'port' did not compile anymore
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>Forked: let's hope they'll go down because of that...
08:09<supdood>Rubidium: how? :)
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08:12<@Rubidium>supdood: start_ai
08:12<dihedral>13:54 < planetmaker> so... yes :-) Feel invited for the 20k party :-)
08:12<dihedral>sure about that?
08:12<dihedral>shall we write that into tt-forums? :-D
08:13<planetmaker>I know that my flat has not unlimited space ;-)
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'd be more worried about the parking space for the caravans :p
08:14<planetmaker>the big unknown on a general announcement is the amount of people
08:14<dihedral>well - at least i see no hindereance as to why not :-P
08:14<planetmaker>haha @ Eddi|zuHause
08:15<planetmaker>I'll let them part at 'versity
08:15<planetmaker>it's not too far.
08:15<dihedral>part? :-P
08:15<planetmaker>*park ;-)
08:20*roboboy installs linux in Virtual PC
08:22<@Rubidium> <- still needs the data files and such; if you use OpenGFX fix the file names (no long filename support!)
08:22<@Rubidium>though it works (for what I could test) in dosbox
08:32<planetmaker>he... too long filenames
08:32<planetmaker>I haven't seen that in long ;-)
08:38<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: more stupid ships:
08:38<SpComb^>there used to be a harbor there, but the ship got stuck and my soldiers kept going there to turn around, so I removed it
08:38<SpComb^>and the ship stays
08:39<SpComb^>it's annoying because S2 is pretty bug-free otherwise
08:39<roboboy>it seems to be stuck in fast forward
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: is that supposed to be an "expedition"?
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how can canadian station set detect presence of dutch catenary, when dutch catenary is loaded as static grf?
08:52<@SmatZ>in multiplayer?
08:57<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: and multiplayer?
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>in single player
08:58<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: it's loaded so detectable
08:58<Ammler>SmatZ: obviously ;-)
08:58<+glx>static or not doesn't matter
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08:59<@Rubidium>actually, in MP trying to detect a static NewGRF means the static NewGRF gets disabled
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08:59<@SmatZ>hello Yexo
08:59<Yexo>hello again
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>ah, so it works completely different from what i imagined...
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09:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r19249 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_road.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3642](r18803): start and end tiles were swapped in CMD_REMOVE_LONG_ROAD
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09:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19250 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3643]: with RTL languages clicking a horizontal scrollbar that could not scroll could cause a crash
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10:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19251 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h):
10:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: add a contructor to GRFError and use it to allocating errors more uniform.
10:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix: some grf error messages didn't free the previous error messages, creating a memory leak
10:57<U1>I guess this question comes up alot but is there any way to get airports with greater bandwith?
10:58<@Rubidium>newairports! (don't know how finished it is though)
10:58<U1>didnt know
10:58<U1>heard it was a pain with the pathfinding on the tarmac
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>that is done by predefined state machines
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10:59<Eddi|zuHause>defined by the GRF
10:59<U1>ah allright
10:59<U1>Rubidium: but thanks, ill check it out :)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>but like Rubidium said, it's still unfinished
10:59<U1>i think ill check it out anyway, im a sucker for airplanes
11:00<Yexo>as user it's currently worthless
11:00<Yexo>there are no aircraft grfs yet with a big capacity, and the spec will most likely change
11:01<U1>oh ok
11:03<U1>the zepelin bay looks awesome tho
11:04<Yexo>which one?
11:04<Yexo>ah, yes
11:04<Yexo>but that one isn't coded yet
11:04<U1>i like where its heading :)
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11:08<U1>oh cool. public airports seems nice
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11:12<Ammler>but those blimps are like helicopters or is that also new feature with newairports?
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11:14<Benny>I've forgotten how to set game settings with rcon again...
11:15<Benny>rcon *pass* set setting raw_industry_construction 1 doesnt work
11:15<Benny>rcon *pass* set 'setting raw_industry_construction 1' doesn't work either
11:15<+glx>and with " ?
11:15<U1>you dont need set
11:15<Benny>no, doesnt work
11:16<U1>just rcon *pass* <command>
11:16<Benny>okay ill check
11:16<+glx>"<command>" indeed
11:16<U1>"<command>" pass
11:16<Benny>wait what? password after the command?
11:16<+glx>no :)
11:16<+glx>rcon pass "command"
11:16<U1>rcon *pass* "<command>"
11:17<Benny> and the value?
11:17<Benny>inside or outside
11:17<U1>within the " "
11:17<+glx>part of command
11:17<Benny>error, command or variable not found
11:17<U1>rcon pass "setting raw_indystry_constryction 1"
11:17<Benny>oh right
11:18<Benny>ok, thanks a lot :D
11:18<U1>np :)
11:18<U1>glad i could help
11:18<Benny>well i g2g again
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12:13<SpComb^>hmm, the sixth roman campgin mission is a little more tricky
12:13<SpComb^>because they actually attack you first :o
12:14<Noldo>4. was the one with ships for the first time?
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12:23<Eddi|zuHause>in S2TNG they reworked the missions a bit, because they removed the vikings
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12:27<peter1138>surprising, drivers for my wacom tablet are still developed
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12:28<peter1138>er, whoops, didn't mean to place that
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12:46<SpComb^>Noldo: yes, chapters 1-4 are tutorials, 5 onwards is more challenging
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13:27<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19252 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Fix [FS#3639]: writing (console) output to a file failed on Windows if the date would not be logged.
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13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19253 /trunk/src/lang/ (20 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 1 changes by Kayos
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by Kwokfu
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 8 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by SmatZ
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: danish - 21 changes by beruic, silentStatic
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13:52<planetmaker>hm... how do I go there: I have a list of files (which reside in my current dir and sub dirs) and I want to copy the whole thing in a sub dir of my current working dir.
13:52<planetmaker>cp -r $filelist directory
13:52<planetmaker>doesn't work...
13:53<@Belugas>i'd grab a mouse to do that
13:53<@Belugas>but i'm a mouse guy
13:53<planetmaker>filelist = `hg st -A | grep -v '? ' | grep -v 'I '`
13:53<@Belugas>that must be why i have a cat :S
13:54<planetmaker>Belugas, yes, but... that's not a good use in a makefile ;-)
13:55<@Belugas>mmh... right...
13:56<planetmaker>hm... I need a list of dirs, first create the dirs, then it would work...
13:57<Zuu>I sometimes use -R for recrusive copy, though I don't remember the difference now. :-)
13:57<planetmaker>the man page tells me it's synonymous
13:58<OwenS>-R tends to be more widely accepted
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>is there a version of TBRS for the NARS-style "narrow" rails?
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: for i in $(hg st -A | grep -v '? ' | grep -v 'I ' | cut -f2 -d' '); do dirname $i; done | sort | uniq <--- for the dirnames
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14:39<Eddi|zuHause>when the cat follows the mouse cursor with his eyes, i sometimes fear he will jump at the screen...
14:40<__ln__>useless use of cat
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14:40<aber>Historic versions of the cp utility had a -r option. This implementation
14:40<aber> supports that option, however, its behavior is different from historical
14:40<aber> FreeBSD behavior. Use of this option is strongly discouraged as the
14:40<aber> behavior is implementation-dependent.
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14:46<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, thanks :-) That will do the trick :-)
14:47<planetmaker>(I know with a bit of delay, was afk :-P )
14:53<@Belugas>delay? someone mentionned a delay? I WANT MY GUIT AND MY DELAY!!!!
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14:58*planetmaker wants a certain person's music as midi files
14:59<@Belugas>a certain other person told me about the wish of someone else of bloody midi files
14:59<@Belugas>and... let say... it's quite not possible...
14:59<@Belugas>sorry :(
15:00<planetmaker>so I was told :-(
15:00<@Belugas>i cannot make my parts midi files, not to mention the effects i'm using
15:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19254 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_text.cpp): -Codechange: simplify newgrf text code by introducing a few helper functions
15:00<@Belugas>even peter's parts might be hard to
15:00<@Belugas>plus... those are all imporvisations
15:00<planetmaker>well, no worries :-) it seems some people caught a bit fire. Which is nice to see
15:00<@Belugas>imagine.. we'd had to reperfomr it all, using who knows what
15:01<@Belugas>good old mp3s/ogg ;)
15:01<planetmaker>Belugas, why re-perform? Just play away and then pick what is good ;-)
15:01<planetmaker>That was my initial idea behind the question
15:01<planetmaker>But not everything would possibly fit the topic
15:01<@Belugas>honestly? none wold, i'
15:01<@Belugas>m sure
15:02<@Belugas>we're all but jazzy :D
15:02<planetmaker>yes, so? Does it all HAVE to be jazz?
15:02<planetmaker>I'm quite ready to also accept other style.
15:04<@Belugas>opened mind :)
15:05<peter1138>hey, i know what
15:05<peter1138>we could wire up the live stream to the in game player
15:05<peter1138>then we have to play music 24/7
15:05<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19255 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: encapsulate GRFIdentifier in GRFConfig instead of subclassing it
15:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19256 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use a constructor/destructor for GRFConfig to make sure all members are properly initialized
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15:06<@Belugas>not a bad idea :)
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16:06<peter1138>hah, router upgraded, and i can now ssh out
16:07<@Rubidium>security upgrades! :)
16:07<peter1138>erm, not really
16:08<peter1138>when from v1.00b01 (20040204, or something) to v1.00b02 (20040610)
16:08<@Rubidium>why? Now systems at your little end of the internet can't hack my ssh server! That's more security for ME!
16:09<ccfreak2k>Your little endian.
16:10<@Rubidium>peter1138: hmm, that's even from before the Debian SSH debacle
16:10<peter1138>the router doesn't have ssh...
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16:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r19257 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: minor coding style fix
16:15<ccfreak2k>"Debian" doesn't spring to mind with "security" unless you mean "lack of".
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>it's called "Debian stable", not "Debian secure" :p
16:15*SmatZ always consider Debian to be one of most secure distros :-/
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16:16<__ln__>Debian "if-it's-too-hard-to-patch-then-we-leave-it-unpatched"
16:17<OwenS>__ln__: i've never seen them leave a security issue unpatched
16:17<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: I'd say Debian is better w.r.t. OpenTTD security support than either Ubuntu or Gentoo
16:18<OwenS>Rubidium: Gentoo's Gentoo, and Ubuntu probably goes "Debian are tracking it; let's wait on them and steal their work" :p
16:18<__ln__>OwenS: I don't have any references at hand, but for example some ancient version of Firefox in stable, and some ancient version of PHP. (You know, they only backport, no version upgrades in stable.)
16:18<__ln__>And I'm not talking about the most current stable here.
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19258 /branches/1.0/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: [NewGRF] Add 2 bits of pseudo-random data for rail types, based on tile location (r19235)
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Writing (console) output to a file failed on Windows if the date would not be logged [FS#3639] (r19252)
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Some GRF error messages did not free the previous error messages, creating a memory leak (r19251)
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: With RTL languages clicking a horizontal scrollbar that could not scroll could cause a crash [FS#3643] (r19250)
16:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Start and end tiles were swapped in CMD_REMOVE_LONG_ROAD causing too much road to be removed [FS#3642] (r19249)
16:18<OwenS>__ln__: They fix the bugs. Stable gets no new versions; it's part of it's definition and RHEL is the same
16:19<@Rubidium>OwenS: Ubuntu is "it's in multiverse, so we can't be bothered even if someone makes debdiffs for us"
16:19<ccfreak2k>The whole idea of vendor-specific patches makes me cringe.
16:19<OwenS>Rubidium: Oh
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16:19<OwenS>ccfreak2k: Never look at Fedora (or similar)'s GLIBC patchlist then
16:20<@Rubidium>gentoo is already waiting 2 months to 'stabilize' 0.7.5
16:20<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: so you're using LFS?
16:20<__ln__>OwenS: That is assuming the fixes are small enough to be backported with the available resources.
16:20<ccfreak2k>I'm using Slackware, actually.
16:20<OwenS>__ln__: Of course. But they fix all security bugs I've seen. If it's a functionality bug, they can leave it.
16:21<OwenS>(Ubuntu & Debian have standardized on the fork named eglibc. Fedora could never do that, though, since Unlrich "I'm-not-discussing-this-it's-not-a-bug" Drepper works for Red Hat
16:23<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: what version of zlib is slackware using?
16:25<@Rubidium>so they at least changed something since its release
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16:29<aber>I filled a bug ( and nobody gives feedback. Just take a look at config.lib its over and over sprinkled with osx hacks. mimimimi :(
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16:32<DJNekkid>if anyone might be interested im gonna broadcast from tonights gig ... im starting in a little more then an hour
16:36<planetmaker>gah. what a pain. kwin went bye bye.
16:37<planetmaker>And I copy & pasted the single letters of kwin from the browser to a xterm in order to restart it
16:37<sparr>so, "differs from TTD" seems to be a factor in the importance of bugs in openttd, am i right?
16:37<planetmaker>as the xterm didn't accept keyboard input anymore - but mouse copy& paste worked :-P
16:38<planetmaker>sparr, how so?
16:39<andythenorth>every time I go in the 2.0 thread I want to post a fail icon :|
16:39<@Rubidium>aber: my *recent* experience with user supplied patches is that 1 in 2 backfires enormously, i.e. results in total failure to compile
16:40<@Rubidium>user supplied patches for Mac OS X issues that is
16:41<@Rubidium>so I rather focus on fixing 1.0 bugs/issues that involve the supported platforms than some unsupported platform that has the tendency to horribly break somewhere else if a change is made
16:42<frosch123>did someone look up the old 1.0 thread?
16:42<@Rubidium>old 1.0 thread?
16:42<frosch123>what will be in 1.0 or so
16:43<@Rubidium>is there one?
16:43<frosch123>just like the current 2.0 spam :)
16:43<frosch123>i am quite sure there was one
16:43<@Rubidium>frosch123: if the storm settles we'll move it to suggestions :)
16:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19259 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r19230): Road stops were not removed in case of bankruptcy.
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16:44<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:44<ccfreak2k>Why is Nite_Owl awake right now/
16:45<Nite_Owl>because he got up a little while ago as he usually does
16:45<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: he's using tor and is actually in central Romania or so
16:47*Nite_Owl goes to sleep when the sun comes up and awakes in the late afternoon
16:49<supdood>how do i play a scenario in multiplayer?
16:49<supdood>do i start it in singleplayer and save, and then load in multiplayer?
16:49<sparr>planetmaker: was investigating a bug with competition between stations, and the general vibe i got was that the importance of the bug was related to whether or not the behavior differed from TTD
16:53<ccfreak2k>supdood, using the GUI?
16:54<supdood>ccfreak2k: yes, only have the client, rc1
16:54<ccfreak2k>I'm looking at the GUI window for it, and there's "Generate random new game" and a list of scenarios.
16:55<supdood>in multiplayer i only see generate random new game :/
16:55<ccfreak2k>Do you -have- any scenarios?
16:55<supdood>got 4 scenarios if i press, play scenarios
16:56<Zuu>Does anyone know a wiki page that lines out which direction is north/west etc and/or 0, 1, 2 etc.?
16:56<ccfreak2k>North is up.
16:56<Zuu>Up in screen?
16:57<Zuu>Eg -1, -1 in relative coordinates then.
16:57<ccfreak2k>I don't know what coordinate system is used.
16:57<planetmaker><supdood> do i start it in singleplayer and save, and then load in multiplayer? <-- yes
16:57<Nite_Owl>I thought North was upper right hand corner ??
16:57<Zuu>Just made an AI that placed 8 relative signs with the relative coordinates on them.
16:58<planetmaker>Nite_Owl, the corners of the map are up, left, right and down
16:58<Zuu>Would need to encode dirrections as a number 0-7 or something. Would be nice to use the same encoding as OpenTTD uses, but is not neccessary.
16:58<planetmaker>So, upper right corner is difficult ;-)
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17:00<Zuu>I'm trying to separate constructing airports from building the feeder drop bus stops and would like to make it search outwards from the airport/train station/etc.
17:00<Zuu>(for PAXLink)
17:00<Nite_Owl>Upper right corner of monitor then
17:00<@Rubidium>Zuu: take a look at direction_type.h
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17:01<planetmaker>sparr, if it has always been that way (also in TTD) it's not really a bug
17:01<@Belugas>mmh... time to hit the roads
17:01<@Belugas>night all
17:01<planetmaker>Doesn't mean that things cannot be changed with good reason - and given proper context
17:01<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:01<planetmaker>night Belugas
17:02<Zuu>Rubidium: Thanks, just what i was about to assume, given that up (screen-coordinates) is north.
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17:06<Nite_Owl>did not the TTD map icon have an arrow pointing to the upper right corner of the screen as North or did I remember wrong ??
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17:11<planetmaker>coop uses for a reason unknown to me upper left as North
17:11<sparr>Nite_Owl: i believe different TT/TTD documentation referred to the top of the screen or the top right of the screen as north
17:11<sparr>planetmaker: yeah, this is the opposite. was one way in ttd, was implemented "wrong" in openttd version 0.1 (afaik), has been wrong ever since
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17:16<ccfreak2k>Gotta love those grandfathered-in bugs.
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17:20<sparr>Nite_Owl: one simple reason to prefer the top left or top right (edge of the map), instead of the top (corner of the map) is because you can draw a compass with arrows and labels pointing at the edge, but not at the corner.
17:21<Zuu>Oo, if you search for "direction" you don't find the "directions" page in the wiki.
17:21<sparr>draw with track, that is :)
17:21<Zuu>How do you add a redirect?
17:22<sparr>also, one might argue for the row/column tile numbering as a basis for directions
17:22<sparr>with the first row running west to east along the north edge of the map
17:22<planetmaker>sparr, you can draw a compass pointing each of the 8 directions...
17:22<planetmaker>though the 4 principal ones are easier.
17:22<sparr>planetmaker: not with arrows or text :)
17:23<Nite_Owl>I was only going by what I remembered that icon to be which is what I always used in my own head
17:23<planetmaker>with tracks is what we do
17:23<sparr>and they won't all cross in the center unless you use double track for the diagonals
17:23<sparr>Nite_Owl: it's confusing enough that I usually try to refer to landmarks
17:23<sparr>"in the corner by Cityville"
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17:26<Zuu>Well there is a compas here:
17:26<Zuu>I just didn't find it as I searched for "direction"
17:27<Zuu>I've created an image with relative tile coordinates and indexes too which I'll either put there or in the NoAI section.
17:27<Zuu>Or both..
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17:28<ccfreak2k>I use the "official" compass because it's easier to understand.
17:28<Zuu>sparr: That's not the one used in OpenTTD source code.
17:28<sparr>Zuu: interesting. where do direction names come into play in the source?
17:28<Zuu>I prefer to stick to the one used in the sources for my AIs.
17:29<Zuu>[23:00] <Rubidium> Zuu: take a look at direction_type.h
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17:29<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: the names are in direction_type.h, also they are used for station naming
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17:30<Zuu>In PAXLink I will use it to store the relative dirrection from a station where clear tiles have been found so that I can rotate the bus stops in a good way.
17:31<OwenS>Since nobody seems to have mentioned, and I'm curious, is the north vector (1, 1) or (0,0)? :-P
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>PS: the X axis points towards south-west, and the Y axis points towards south-east
17:32<sparr>not calling Y+ "North" is confusing
17:32<planetmaker>sparr, quite not so ;-)
17:33<planetmaker>it all depends upon definitions
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: direction of X and Y is according to the right hand rule
17:33<sparr>Zuu: I should point out that the comments in direction_type.h say that different directions are used "in you games" :)
17:33<OwenS>sparr: Thats something I agree with. Theres a reason my projects's north vector is (0 0 1) rather than OpenGL's default (0 0 -1). Even though that requires massaging things slightly :-P
17:33<sparr>Eddi|zuHause: huh? that only dictates their relative orientation, has nothing to do with absolute
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>it comes by (0,0) being the top corner, and z being upwards (screen)
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>leaves only one direction for X and Y
17:34<sparr>OwenS: yeah, been there. in my head, Z+ is "up", Y+ is "north", and X+ is "east", and I'd rather write wrappers to keep it that way than have to constantly remember conflicting systems
17:35<OwenS>sparr: Heh. In my head, X+ is east/right, Y+ is up, Z+ is north/forward
17:35<sparr>fun times :)
17:35<sparr>my bias is based on paper maps
17:35<Zuu>sparr: Are you saying that 1, 0 is North?
17:35<sparr>Zuu: 0,1
17:35<OwenS>One area I'd say DirectX is more clued than OpenGL, but you can fix it anyway simply
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17:36<Zuu>sparr: This is what I did (but I'll then change it so N is at 0,1.
17:36<OwenS>(With the added oddity that now all of your vertices get wound in DirectX order rather than OpenGL order)
17:36<sparr>Zuu: (X,Y,Z)... (1,0,0) is east, (0,1,0) is north, (0,0,1) is up. that's how it works on most paper maps.
17:37<Zuu>Ok, though I've used x,y :-)
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>what's a "paper map"?
17:37<sparr>paper maps of the northern hemisphere east of the prime meridian :)
17:37<Zuu>Oh, that you did as wel.
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17:37<sparr>but Z+ being "up" SEEMS universal, except when it comes to programming
17:38<ccfreak2k>Eddi|zuHause, more importantly, where did he get 3D paper from?
17:38<sparr>X and Y being parallel to the reference horizantal surface
17:38<OwenS>sparr: And maths
17:38<ccfreak2k>Maybe it's a cardboard box?
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17:38<sparr>I think MilkShape3D also defaults to Y+ being "up"
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>programming coordinate systems is "fun", because the screen coordinates have their Y axis reversed...
17:39<sparr>that too :)
17:39<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Not on OS/2 :p
17:39<OwenS>(Hence the upside-downness of .bmps)
17:39<Zuu>" * This enum defines 8 possible directions which are used for
17:39<Zuu> * the vehicles in the game. The directions are aligned straight
17:39<Zuu> * to the viewport, not to the map. So north points to the top of
17:39<Zuu> * your viewport and not rotated by 45 degrees left or right to get
17:39<Zuu> * a "north" used in you games.
17:39<Zuu>" Sounds to me like north is up in screen coordinates.
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>yes, north is up.
17:40<ccfreak2k>Didn't I say that a while ago?
17:40<Zuu>Why is sparr then trying to convince me that it is 1,0 or 0,1 then?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>(0,1) in screen coordinates, (-1,-1) in map coordinates
17:40<Zuu>Oh, he was using screen coordinates...
17:40<Zuu>well, then I don't need to re-make my image :-)
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17:41<ccfreak2k>Let's argue over something else now.
17:42<Terkhen>good night
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17:44<Eddi|zuHause>really funny it gets when it comes to distances...
17:45*andythenorth is pretty certain where the north is
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>(-1,-1) is length 2 when it comes to calculating delivery distance, 1.4 when it comes to pathfinder distance, and 1 when it comes to vehicle movement distance
17:45<Zuu>Yea, got some Sweref99 coordinates to intreprete today. :-)
17:45<OwenS>Delivery does manhattan distance? O_o
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's one of the problematic unbalances in the game
17:46<OwenS>Even when I'm doing visibility calculations for ~10000 objects I don't resort to manhattan (I stick with square distances since I just need order :P )
17:46<sparr>and trains move faster diagonally
17:46<sparr>so diagonal deliveries are doubly bonused
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>it would be fairly simple to just switch to 1-distance for deliveries, quite more problematic to switch to square/euclidean distance for vehicle movements
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17:50<sparr>stupid game exploit question...
17:50<sparr>when is the location of the source station recorded, for use in calculating delivery distance?
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>there once was a bug when the location of the source station was calculated on delivery, and might have been deleted since then, and (0,0) being assumed instead
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>not sure how that was fixed
17:52<sparr>interesting, as that would affect my idea
17:52<sparr>my idea being to move the source station while the vehicle is en route
17:52*sparr tests
17:53<OwenS>Record source industry? :-P
17:55<sparr>when does the delivery timer start?
17:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r19260 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: another minor coding style fix
18:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19261 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/ (shared/mysql.cpp shared/newgrf_config.h updater/udp.cpp): [MSU] -Fix (r19255): make the master server code compile again
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18:10<OwenS>Hmm. /me adds a "const" specifier. String a, b; (a + b) = c is silly and should not compile!
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18:17<Zuu>no squirrel destructor? :-(
18:17<Zuu>Having to revert values at all function exit points explicitly sucks :-(
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18:19<Zuu>Neither is there a try - finally statement.
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18:26<Progman>is there a documentation file of the general layout of the grf format? (not the nfo files)
18:27<Progman>its not that simple
18:27<@Rubidium> ?
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18:29<Progman>this doesn't say there is a spritecounter at the beginning
18:31<aber>"with no meta-information" I would say this is inspired by a c String
18:31<Progman>nor the pseudo sprites are in the format {size} 0xff {data}
18:31<@Rubidium>Progman: that's because the spritecounter is not part of the GRF file format
18:32<@Rubidium>e.g. the base graphics grfs don't have a sprite counter
18:32<@Rubidium>also in grf.html "if infox==0xff, the sprite is a special type...."
18:34<@Rubidium>i.e. it mentions pseudo sprites, only doesn't call them that
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19:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19262 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: finalise BaNaNaS support for music sets
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19:02<@Rubidium>in my soup
19:02<Xhinnus>i looking several for one think, i can`t find the answer, can anybody helpme?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>you know how mister Knigge died?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>he fell from a ship into the water and was attacked by a shark
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>and when he pulled his sword, someone from the ship shouted:
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>"but mister Knigge, fish with a knife?"
19:03<Xhinnus>how can i grow up the city ranking of my company? plz
19:04<@Rubidium>Xhinnus: take a look at
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>Xhinnus: with good service, trees or bribes
19:04<Xhinnus>thX!!! :)
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause>why do i always think of a guy flying past my screen when i read "THX"?
19:10*Zuu looks on his airport wih NW, NE, SW and SE signs in their respective directions at the adjacent tiles and realize how much more work there is to add a multi-tile drop at a good location.
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19:45<supdood>is it possible as admin of a server to explode the whole map?
19:46<supdood>yeah remove everything
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19:47<SpComb^>possible with cheats, but I guess those can't be enabled in mp
19:47<supdood>how? so i atleast can try it
19:47<SpComb^>(magic bulldozer + money)
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19:48<SpComb^>depending on what value of "whole" you want
19:48<mateusjmf>good night for all! how install openttd in linux Ubuntu 9.10? I have problem in instalation!
19:48<SpComb^>does that include all industries and town houses? :)
19:48<supdood>how do i enable multi bulldozer?
19:49<SpComb^>using the cheat menu
19:49<supdood>ahh cant seem to find it in mp :(
19:49<mateusjmf>help me please!
19:51<@Rubidium>mateusjmf: just install the version that's packaged with ubuntu 9.10?
19:52<@Rubidium>otherwise install the generic package, not the one for Debian Lenny
19:54<mateusjmf>in the hour to install of the error in the video!
19:55<@Rubidium>then install libsdl
19:55<@Rubidium>assuming that's the problem you're facing
19:57<mateusjmf>already I installed libsdl and exactly thus it does not function! what it can be?
19:58<@Rubidium>we need more information than that, e.g. an error message
20:00<mateusjmf>you know if exists IRC openttd of the Brazil? I am Brazilian and I speak little English!
20:02<@Rubidium>I'm not aware of a Brazilian channel; there seem to be (occasionally) Portuguese or Brazilian people in here although given the lack of reaction from any of those probably none at the moment
20:02<mateusjmf>exists some site in web to lower the game with the folders necessary to complete the installation?
20:04<mateusjmf>Of where it is using a keyboard?
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>could you please type the exact error message you get?
20:06<@Rubidium>and tell what version of OpenTTD you're using / trying to install
20:07<mateusjmf>I am having problems in using a keyboard with vocês! my English he is basic forgive, me!
20:08<mateusjmf>I am having problems in using a keyboard with you! my English he is basic forgive
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20:17<Eddi|zuHause>not being able to help people who deserve to be helped makes me sad...
20:26<+glx>at least you tries
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21:18<aber>there's nothing like a real programming language ;)
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 26 00:00:34 2010