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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-26

---Logopened Fri Feb 26 00:00:34 2010
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04:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19263 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r19184): some specific industry creation errors got replaced by 'site unsuitable'.
05:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19264 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r19179): strgen segfaults when trying to lookup the command for a non-existing command
05:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19265 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3618]: "Can't build <industry> here... <industry> in the way" showed the to-be-built industry twice, instead of the to-be-built industry and the industry that's in the way
05:10<planetmaker>those sound like fixes which will get backported ;-)
05:10<@Rubidium>not all :)
05:10<planetmaker>good morning also :-)
05:10<planetmaker>oh, not?
05:10<__ln__>*shown
05:11<@Rubidium>19184 is not in the 1.0 branch
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05:12<planetmaker>he :-)
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05:16<planetmaker>he, let's not introduce a new inconsistency in the German translation ;-)
05:16<@Rubidium>did I?
05:17<@Rubidium>planetmaker: https://secure.openttd.org:444/test-www/en/bananas/base/ :)
05:18<planetmaker>No, you didn't. I was about to, but luckily noticed ;-)
05:19<planetmaker>uhm... empty page, Rubidium ?
05:19<@Rubidium>oh, maybe you need ipv6 to reach that page :)
05:19<planetmaker>I guess I don't have that here.
05:19<@Rubidium>after all, it's the website testbed :)
05:19<planetmaker>:-)
05:20<@Rubidium>anyhow, with recent trunk downloading openmsx from bananas should work
05:20<ccfreak2k>I see it.
05:20<@Rubidium>(recent trunk as in today's (UTC))
05:20<ccfreak2k>I don't think I've got an IPv6 address thjough.
05:21<@Rubidium>then maybe his browser barfs on the certificate?
05:22<roboboy>mine barfed on the certificates, but I got there eventualy
05:25*roboboy fires DOSBox up
05:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: if you add OpenMSX to bananas, could you set 268454720 as minimum required version? That's 1.0 branch after 19264 which would mean it isn't downloaded with the betas/RCs as it doesn't work correctly there
05:27<planetmaker>268454720? That's rather a high number ;-)
05:28<@Rubidium>@base 10 16 268454721
05:28<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 10004B41
05:28<planetmaker>oh, that funny bit.
05:28<planetmaker>But... it means that current trunk won't download it?
05:28<Ammler>current trunk is 1.1
05:28<@Rubidium>trunk will, that's 11004B42-ish
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05:29<planetmaker>oh... did the versioning scheme change somewhat that the 5-digit svn numbers don't work there?
05:29<planetmaker>or did it always require a number of that kind?
05:30<@Rubidium>it always required such a number, although it was kinda hidden
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05:30<planetmaker>I guess I set all minimum version requirements wrongly then ;-) And probably not only me.
05:30<@Rubidium>e.g. 0.7.5 became 07500000 hex
05:30<Ammler>I guess, it is well documented in the newgrf spec
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05:31<@Rubidium>so use the 10004B41hex as custom version
05:31<planetmaker>yes, the specs have that kind of versioning scheme IIRC
05:31<planetmaker>But I only ever extracted the SVN rev number ;-)
05:31<planetmaker>ok, no problem :-)
05:31<Ammler>(you could skip the release bits)
05:31<planetmaker>Ammler, that's what I do, yes
05:31<planetmaker>and that's why I forgot ;-)
05:32<planetmaker>Rubidium, but bananas accepts the number only in dec, not in hex, right?
05:33<@Rubidium>IIRC yes, but you can try it :)
05:33<planetmaker>:-)
05:33<Ammler>it does somehow convert it, I ad some "strange" numbers there I didn't put.
05:33<Ammler>had*
05:53<Zuu>Wiki: "Co-operative (or co-op) gameplay is when _one_ or more people run a company using the multiplayer system, working together to achieve the same goals." :-)
06:00<SpComb^>off-by-one error
06:01<@Rubidium>schizophrenia?
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06:14<planetmaker>good point, Zuu ;-)
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06:15<Zuu>I'd like to see a single-player co-operative game :-)
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06:15<Zuu>(using the multi-player system)
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06:20<SpComb^>Zuu: you could have spectators
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06:21<SpComb^>for me, co-op is just the absemse of competition
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06:22<Ammler>Zuu: coop with your AIs :-)
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06:57<roboboy>hello
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07:33<Terkhen>hello
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>why does the ECS saw mill chop trees?
07:37<peter1138>why not?
07:38<planetmaker>hello Terkhen
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09:03<@Belugas>hello
09:14<roboboy>gnight
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause># i say hello, you say goodbye
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09:28<Priski>haha, only in russia: a chimp has been sent to for clinic for alcohol/cigarette addiction
09:29<Priski>how the hell chimp has been able to drink and smoke, apparently quite some time
09:32-!-lolman_ is now known as lolman
09:32<Priski>"chimp has been given beer and cigarettes from zoo visitors"
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>so he knows how to use a cigarette lighter?
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09:48<aber>probably he just asks for fire.
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10:02<Priski>another interesting news for you
10:03<Priski>in norway there soon are openin brothels that are free
10:04<Priski>they just made law that made buying sex a crime, so now there are opening brothels that don't charge for sex
10:04<@Rubidium>so Christians may not have sex anymore, or get married for free
10:04<Priski>60 women and 30 men have been applied for soon starting jobs :D
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>you don't pay for sex, but for condoms, wine, "entrance"?
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>room usage
10:06<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: the news reports imply none of such, but who knows
10:06<Priski>they haven't told the details yet
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's like cinemas undercharge you for the ticket, but charge extra for cola and popcorn...
10:07<@Rubidium>you have to pay for the details
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>or gas stations who don't earn money on gas, but only on stuff the people buy in the shop
10:07<Priski>apparently it's backed by an political group that wants selling sex legal
10:09<Priski>they open in 5. month in 5 different cities
10:10<__ln__>Priski: did you book your flights yet?
10:10<Priski>maybe I should make an cultural trip to oslo in during summer... :D
10:13-!-jpx [jpx_@e83-245-150-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>"was ist bitte CAPSLOCK-Wetter" - "es SHIFT ohne ende"
10:15<planetmaker>:-D
10:15<planetmaker>I'll remember that one :-)
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10:18<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, btw, the only safe way to get all dirs which I need, is unfortunately a bit longer than the one line you gave yesterday - though it's the basis:
10:18<planetmaker>REPO_FILEDIRS1 := $(shell for i in $(REPO_FILES); do dirname $$i; done | sort | uniq)
10:18<planetmaker>REPO_FILEDIRS2 := $(shell for i in $(REPO_FILEDIRS1); do for j in `echo "$$i" | grep -o -b '/' | cut -f1 -d:`; do echo "$$i" | cut -b1-$$j; done; done | sort | uniq)
10:18<planetmaker>REPO_DIRS := $(shell for i in $(REPO_FILEDIRS1) $(REPO_FILEDIRS2); do echo $$i; done | sort | uniq)
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. you might have to recurse the line...
10:18<planetmaker>exactly
10:19<planetmaker>the last line is then everything in order for a mkdir call
10:20<planetmaker>and it still fails nicely on file and dir names with spaces.
10:20<planetmaker>But I decided to not care about that
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>of course...
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>spaces are the death of such simple approaches
10:22<planetmaker>grf authors who need space in their paths or filenames shall write their own makefile ;-)
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>you could check for spaces first, and issue an error
10:23<planetmaker>true. But that wouldn't make much of a difference, if I get an error there or then.
10:23<planetmaker>It's anyway only important for bundling the source dir.
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but it makes sense to tell other people explicitly that spaces are not handled.
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>instead of some very obscure error message about files not being found
10:24<planetmaker>yes, I thought about a line in the ominous do-not-readme ;-)
10:24<planetmaker>also... how do I test for spaces?
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>when "wc" and "wc -l" differ by more than factor two?
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>might rely on uncertain output format of hg st...
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>for non-germans, the above joke plays on http://dict.leo.org/?search=schiffen (meaning 3)
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10:29<planetmaker>actually... when wc and wc -l differ at all for a hg st -A
10:29<planetmaker>(or the appropriate subset)
10:29<planetmaker>thanks for the idea :-)
10:32<peter1138>huh? comparing output of "wc" with output of "wc -l" ?
10:32<planetmaker>wc -w
10:32<planetmaker>and wc -l
10:32<peter1138>number of words vs number of lines
10:32<planetmaker>if things are one per line that's fine
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10:32<planetmaker>yes.
10:32<planetmaker>is one word
10:32<peter1138>okay. sounds like you're doing something wrong somewhere...
10:32<planetmaker> /blah/blub/filename
10:33<planetmaker>please tell me :-)
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>you can also use grep
10:34<peter1138>what are you actually tring to do?
10:34<planetmaker>peter1138, the idea is to detect whether the repo has anywhere a dir or filename with spaces
10:34<planetmaker>as that will cause trouble later on.
10:34<peter1138>trouble with what?
10:35<planetmaker>what I do have is a list of all files with path in the form of /blah/blub/myfile.extension
10:35<planetmaker>trouble with the mkdir and cp where I get their arguments from the variable. within the makefile
10:36<peter1138>you've heard of quotes, right?
10:36<planetmaker>yes...
10:36<peter1138>FOO=/path with spaces; mkdir "$FOO"; ?
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that doesn't work with for i in $(blah)
10:37<planetmaker>^
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10:38<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/224955 <-- the two relevant pieces from the makefile
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10:39<Ammler>what if you change field delimiter?
10:40<Ammler>$IFS iirc
10:41<planetmaker>hm...
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10:43<planetmaker>might be an idea, if it works within a makefile
10:44<Ammler>not sure, but might be easier than detect spaces :-)
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10:50<peter1138>you could probably do all that with a couple of awk statements ;p
10:53<planetmaker>many roads lead to Rome ;-)
11:08<@Belugas>and many bits in a ROM
11:08*Belugas has no idea why he said taht
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11:13<peter1138>"why not"
11:13<peter1138>:D
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11:18<@Belugas>hehehe
11:18<@Belugas>yup, good enough reason
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11:25<sparr>Rubidium: replied to your comment on my bug
11:27<sparr>Rubidium: happy to discuss here, or in PM, if that's faster
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11:29<sparr>Rubidium: the idea behind the code, before and after my patch, is that the resources are split between the two stations based on rating (and the second station is penalized), then each station suffers some wasteage of the amount it was given.
11:29<sparr>my patch doesn't affect the split, just the wasteage
11:30<sparr>I can't say if the split in openttd matches ttd, that's a lot harder to test. But the wasteage definitely doesn't currently match, I think due to the bug in question
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11:41<sparr>thanks for taking the time to consider the patch, at least
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11:57*Terkhen hates quaternions
11:58<@Rubidium>I can imagine you hate the complex things for a number of reasons :)
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12:03<Terkhen>having to deal with them is the most important one :P
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>what did the poor quaternions ever do to you?
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12:06<OwenS>Terkhen: Theres a reason I only use quaternions on the network. Matrices are soo much less confusing
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12:12<Terkhen>I'd prefer to use a matrix, but if I do someone at the final review will ask why I'm not using quaternions for performance reasons
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12:13<Eddi|zuHause>so? all that needs is an argument for "i can optimise this better, so it reaches the same performance"
12:13<@Rubidium>Terkhen: but if with matrices *your* performance is better, doesn't that count?
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12:14<OwenS>Terkhen: Graphics work?
12:15<Terkhen>hmm... I can justify using a matrix, yes... as long as the motive sounds "technical" enough
12:16-!-guru3 [~guru3@2002:5ae3:813a::1] has joined #openttd
12:16<Terkhen>OwenS: no, I need to store the orientation of a wiimote
12:16<OwenS>Terkhen: Aah. If it was graphics work a valid excuse would have been "Converting the quaternion to a matrix for the graphics card makes things actually go slower" :p
12:17<Terkhen>probably I'm worrying too much, I doubt any of the teachers will read my code / documentation
12:17<OwenS>I can't imagine a Wiimote's input is so rapid to use more than 0.01% of CPU time though...
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12:20<Terkhen>well, the matrix / quaternion input will probably be used for graphics later
12:21<Terkhen>I'll use that excuse, thanks :)
12:21<OwenS>I don't know if it's true or not; to be honest, I don't care, since matrix multiplication isn't anywhere on my profiles
12:22<Terkhen>as long as it sounds reasonable... :)
12:23<OwenS>In fact, my profiles are 90% _nv######GL :p
12:23<OwenS>And 10% Frustum::classify and std::sort
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12:25<Eddi|zuHause>of course, "this is not performance critical" is a very good argument for not focusing on optimisation
12:26<Terkhen>I hope to make something related to graphics, but I won't know for sure until I test how precise is the input
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12:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19266 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html: [Website] -Update: the development page
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12:55<mib_w7pe0f>http://varietytribe.forumcommunity.net/
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13:33<sparr>Rubidium: ping
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>great... digging a 6 year old topic... new record?
13:36<@Rubidium>nah
13:37<sparr>Eddi|zuHause: someone complained about me doing the same... what's the problem?
13:37<sparr>if there was an issue 6 years ago, and it's still an issue, why throw away all the debate about it then?
13:38<Terkhen>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=859855#p859855 <-- wow
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: there is a difference between reviving an old discussion with new insight, and senselessly spam an "i agree." under something that has been actually resolved...
13:40<OwenS>Terkhen: I think that's a new luser attitude low
13:40<@Rubidium>OwenS: nah, it's just that they're not going directly to the locomotion part of the forum anymore
13:41<Terkhen>it's only missing "And make also X while you are at it" to be "perfect"
13:42<sparr>Eddi|zuHause: ahh, yes
13:42<OwenS>And yay, my bytecode writer is working properly :-)
13:42<sparr>www.tt-forums.net uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for login.tt-forums.net
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13:43<sparr>Rubidium: in most situations I would let my rebuttal of your math speak for itself, but it occurs to me that your opinion has a bit more weight around here than mine, would you mind retracting?
13:44<sparr>I fear another dev may look at the bug, go "oh, Rubidium said the patch is bad", and ignore it
13:45<@Belugas>i think that , personnaly, knowing Rubidium's knowledge and expertise on the game, his opinion has far more weight than mine, and even more than yours, sparr
13:45<sparr>right, that :)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19267 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: Bulgarian, Chinese (Traditional), Croatian, Indonesian, Norwegian (Bokmal), Portuguese, Russian and Slovenian base set translations.
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: +description.bg_BG =
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ?\208?\159?\209?\128?\208?\176?\208?\183?\208?\181?\208?\189
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ?\208?\188?\209?\131?\208?\183?\208?\184?\208?\186?\208?\176?\208?\187?\208?\181?\208?\189
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ?\208?\191?\208?\176?\208?\186?\208?\181?\209?\130.
13:45<@Belugas>and i'm pretty sure the other devs think the same too
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: +description.hr_HR = Muzi?\196?\141ki paket bez ikakve muzike.
13:45<sparr>I agree
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>interesting commit message :p
13:46<@Rubidium>argh... should've removed that :(
13:47<Zuu>Is that some kind of UTF8/Unicode?
13:47<@Rubidium>oh WT3 where art thou?
13:47<OwenS>I'd say itl ooks like Unicode escapes/
13:47<@Belugas>that is one of his password
13:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: what's up with WT3 not committing?
13:48<sparr>Belugas: does what I said make sense in that light?
13:48<TrueBrain>I thin kyou broke it
13:48-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
13:48-!-mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ
13:49<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yeah, I know I always break it :)
13:49<TrueBrain>DNS issue
13:49<TrueBrain>hahaha
13:49<@Rubidium>dns issue? Whut?
13:49<TrueBrain>and you committed EXACTLY when it was committing
13:49<TrueBrain>so it give an out-of-date error
13:50<TrueBrain>generating commit
13:51<@Rubidium>woei... :)
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19268 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 4 changes by elleryq
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: esperanto - 272 changes by Ailanto, kristjan
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:51<@Rubidium>thanks!
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: indonesian - 11 changes by fanioz
13:51<TrueBrain>np
13:51<TrueBrain>still not 90% ...
13:51<@Rubidium>you have no esperanto translators for like 2 years and then you've got two :)
13:52<@Rubidium>so... where are those TWO Mac OS X maintainers?
13:54<OwenS>Hmm... Time to learn (*gasp*) boost::spirit
13:55<@Rubidium>is that a boost library to burn CDs/DVDs?
13:55*FauxFaux giggles at OwenS.
13:56<sparr>I wonder how feasible it would be to convince a translated game like openttd to display things in one language but provide tooltip text in english, as a tool for learning the other language
13:56<OwenS>It's the boost parser library. An unholy combination of operator overloading and templates
13:57<OwenS>And while I may have issues with Boost - in particular, their build system (And to a lesser extent their coding conventions - but I can live with that) - as a header-only library, I can't really complain too much about Spirit
13:58<Alberth>Rubidium: hopefully, it takes less than 2 years to get those maintainers
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: make a new language.txt replacing all the _TOOLTIP strings
13:59<Zuu>OwenS: Their library for parsing CLI arguments made me cry.
14:00<OwenS>Zuu: Hah. I think that internally uses Spirit. Spirit's not too bad considering it takes as close to EBNF as you can get in C++
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: possibly useful sideffect: missing strings in the translation are displayed in english
14:00<sparr>Rubidium: sorry to come across as demanding. thanks again for looking at it at all
14:00<Zuu>They used the language in a such way that if you made a typo it could easily compile anyway and cause hard to find bugs instead of throwing comile errors right away.
14:00<OwenS>Zuu: Thats an interesting change from the usual boost 50 line errors containing mainly "In this context"
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14:02<Zuu>I haven't been using boost for long time now. For signals I use sigc++ instead and the rest I don't use.
14:03<OwenS>I'm using just boost::ptr_containers at the moment
14:04<Zuu>(having curling on my second screen) - why do I always look away when the stones hit the center? :-p
14:14<Chrill>CURLING
14:14<Chrill>cus that's a sport..
14:14<Sacro>curling is awesome
14:15-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:15<sparr>curling is more of a sport than shuffleboard
14:16<Yexo><sparr> I wonder how feasible it would be to convince a translated game like openttd to display things in one language but provide tooltip text in english, as a tool for learning the other language <- not to hard if you generate a new language file without the tooltips
14:24<Ammler>:'-( lost
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>what's wrong with lost?
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14:40<Zuu>Maybe the wrong team lost the last curling game?
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14:53<frosch123>as long as the right one wins it
15:02<sparr>frosch123: thanks for the savegame. your observations differ from mine. i shall try to find out why.
15:03<frosch123>maybe you can also discover why the transporation percantage varies a lot while the rating stays quite constant :)
15:03<sparr>i should have made a savegame when i had a chance
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15:17*OwenS wishes all build tools learn't from CMake's progress outputs
15:20-!-SHADOW-XIII [Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
15:21<SHADOW-XIII>anyone following on StarCraft II beta ?
15:21<SHADOW-XIII>/join #sc2
15:22<TrueBrain>@kban SHADOW-XIII spam
15:22-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!Miranda@cpc2-lewi3-0-0-cust462.bmly.cable.ntl.com] by DorpsGek
15:22-!-SHADOW-XIII was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [spam]
15:22<OwenS>Spams bad in there today :-S
15:22<planetmaker>Rubidium: is there no fallback music set defined?
15:23<TrueBrain>OwenS: I am always in for a kick, so just tell me :p
15:23<planetmaker>If the currently defined one is not found, it tells me that I'm most probably missing TTD original music also ;-)
15:23<planetmaker>and then quits
15:24<sparr>frosch123: the fluctuating transportation percentage makes this hard to do in general
15:24<OwenS>I suppose that comes with being in the top 10 (?) channels on a network :-P
15:25<TrueBrain>this channel is in the top 10? This network sucks :p
15:25<frosch123>actually shadow is a regular visitor of this channel, no bot :p
15:25<planetmaker>hehe, yeah
15:25<TrueBrain>frosch123: yup, I am aware. He is mostly the person joining 100 times a day, not saying anything ;) Either way, even more reason why he should know not to do that ;) Ghehe :)
15:27<Zuu>Does building a bus stop decrease the town rating? Eg, if I'm unsure if I will be able to connect the road station to the town, do I have anything to win by placing a depot there in the way during path finding?
15:27<OwenS>irc.netsplit.de has you 9th, assuming it sorts the channels in descending order, which it appears to be doing
15:28<OwenS>Sorry, 8th. 9 channels per page, wtf?!
15:29<Alberth>just to discourage people to look at the lesser used channels :p
15:29<Yexo>Zuu: indirectly yes, as unused stations decrease it
15:29<Yexo>see http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics#Local_authority_rating
15:29<Zuu>Unused stations or unused station parts?
15:29<Yexo>unused stations
15:30<Zuu>Ok, then no difference in this case as I'm attaching bus stops to an existing inter-city station.
15:31<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> this channel is in the top 10? This network sucks :p <-- we have been one of the largest channels here since the beginning... :p
15:31<TrueBrain>scary
15:31<Zuu>Though, I realized I could include in my road pathfinder callback support for putting big penalties on forbidden tiles.
15:32<planetmaker>Zuu: you bad guy. Station walking! People will flame you ;-)
15:33<Zuu>Who said anything about station walking? Isn't I'm a good guy trying to implement attaching stations without using distant join?
15:37<Zuu>If you want to balme an AI for being lazy with station walking I suggest picking a better AI to blame than PAXLink ;-)
15:37<SpComb^>hmmwtf, SHADOW-XIII
15:38<SpComb^>he used to be a moderator or something on ttf
15:38<@orudge>a long time ago
15:39<@orudge>he also used to be very anti-OpenTTD :p
15:39<@orudge>and now plays it on his PSP or something along those lines
15:39<@orudge>he came to the first TT meet, more than you did, young SpComb^!
15:42<planetmaker>hmpf... crash.
15:45<SpComb^>orudge: I dispute the existance of such a thing
15:46<@orudge>a young SpComb^? or a TT meet?
15:46<SpComb^>yes
15:47<@orudge>quite
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15:58<@Rubidium>planetmaker: no_music is part of the 'default' install
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15:59<planetmaker>Yes, but it wasn't selected when I removed my (old) openmsx w/o changing the config
15:59<planetmaker>it asserted.
15:59<@Rubidium>asserted? More errored I hope
15:59<@Rubidium>and it does for all base sets
15:59<planetmaker>uhm... true. sorry.
16:00<planetmaker>But I have another one. With my current version of OpenMSX where songs are not consecutive
16:00<planetmaker>There it crashes outright
16:00<@Rubidium>huh? They're not consecutive in the original set either
16:00<planetmaker>hold on, I add it to FS for you to download
16:00-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF86E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
16:01<planetmaker>uh... only killall helped :S
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16:04<planetmaker>uploaded
16:04<planetmaker>fs #4648
16:04<planetmaker>#3648
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16:11<planetmaker>Rubidium: if I set the "new" song at position3 (as old2 = ...) then all is fine.
16:14<planetmaker>I guess I'll add it there for now ;-)
16:14<planetmaker>Then I can offer people a small taster :-)
16:15<@Rubidium>yay... works for me!
16:16<planetmaker>he.
16:16<@Rubidium>or I've done something 'wrong'
16:16<planetmaker>Select OpenMSX. Then chose an individual programme. For example "Little Blue Car", "Theme Song"
16:16<planetmaker>Then press play
16:17<planetmaker>And it does go bye bye for me
16:17<planetmaker>mind the order of the songs
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16:17<@Rubidium>take a look at the crash log
16:17<@Rubidium>it's completely in 'Apple' code, except the crash handler
16:18<@Rubidium>maybe it's the midi that crashes the midi player
16:18<planetmaker>yiepieh
16:18<planetmaker>The midi itself plays fine
16:18<planetmaker>if I only select that song
16:23<planetmaker>hm... it seems it's not as clear as it seemed initially. Now it died on me with that song only selected, too
16:23<planetmaker>Nice. Another apple bug :S
16:23<TrueBrain>I hate bugged apples
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16:28<planetmaker>why the heck do you own one in that case, TrueBrain ?
16:29<@Rubidium>especially the green apples are good, except when they are dry and such
16:29<TrueBrain>they taste liked shit, apples that are bugged
16:29<TrueBrain>dunno how about you ...
16:29<planetmaker>Boskop
16:29<TrueBrain>but sometimes you get them in a bunch
16:30<TrueBrain>so I don't own them because I want to
16:30<TrueBrain>it just happens :)
16:30<planetmaker>he :-P
16:35<Zuu>At some point I guess I should make libraries of the shared code between PAXLink and CluelessPlus instead of copying over things. This time I was almost sure I had implemented something but couldn't find it just to realize it was in the other AI. :-)
16:40<Terkhen>good night
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16:43<andythenorth>hi hi
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>the joy of copy paste :p
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>even my mother understood why that is a bad thing :p
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16:50<Zuu>Was looking around to see if I could find a good teaser picture of the new feeder drop station building code for PAXLink when I found this construction that only an AI can do: http://junctioneer.net/openttd/long_ap_access_road.png
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16:52<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:52<Zuu>Hello Nite_Owl
16:52<Nite_Owl>Hello Zuu
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16:54<@Belugas>mmmh
16:54<Zuu>Hmm, building a half tile that becomes a slop and then remove it again does not restore the old state of the slope tile.
16:55<@Belugas>althougb i've not finished whay i should have, it's fucking time to fucking go home
16:55<@Rubidium>night Belugas, happy weekend!
16:55<@Belugas>you too Rubidium :)
16:55<@Belugas>nigh all
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16:57<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
16:57<Wolf01>hello :D
16:57<Zuu>Hmm, AIRoad can't tell me what road bits a single tile has so, there is no way I could restore the road bits on a slope as they where.
16:58<Nite_Owl>Hello Wolf01
17:00<Zuu>Though, I could check if the road stump at the other end of the tile is connected and chose to use RemoveRoad or RemoveRoadFull to not leave a half tile road stump.
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17:26<Wolf01>orudge, you there?
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17:27<@Rubidium>Wolf01: I think you can better ask the question than that meta question :)
17:29<Wolf01>if I make 2 donations by paypal, one for the forums and one for OpenTTD is sufficient to specify the description?
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17:31<Zuu>Wolf01: When I did that, I used the paypal button on OpenTTD.org to get the OpenTTD donation correct.
17:32<Zuu>It may be possible to write OpenTTD in the tt-forums paypal and have orudge read it and make a note. I don't know since I'm not orudge.
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17:33<planetmaker>IIRC it's even fine, if you drop him a note that it should be splitted 50:50 between forums and OpenTTD. At least he told me once, if my memory serves me well
17:34<Wolf01>since both donations go to orudge I think the only way is to specify the description, for OTTD it's not a problem, for the forums I specified "tt-forums.net", I think it should be ok
17:34<@Rubidium>yeah, it's better to send it in one donation; less money goes to paypal
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17:36<Zuu>Rubidium: Okay, shall do that next time.
17:43<OwenS>I so wish C++ templates generated sane errors
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18:01<@SmatZ>OwenS: try compiling this http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/testcase.cpp
18:03<OwenS>SmatZ: lool
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18:30<Zuu>Extreemly hilly maps are intresting to see what cool constructions your AI could come up with. :-)
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18:46<Zuu>poor AI, built an airport on water :-(
18:47<planetmaker>:-(
18:49<aber>:(
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18:51<Zuu>At least I could fix that bug :-)
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19:42<Zuu>Ah, nice a curling game where I can understand both teams :-)
19:42<Zuu>(sweden vs canada)
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20:49<sparr>Rubidium: Thanks for pointing out the distribution of parameters for MoveGoodsToStation. I was stupidly considering mostly high numbers, as in monthly values, without thinking that the function is called with 2.5 days worth of production
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20:52<sparr>is the date available globally?
20:52<sparr>the in-game date, that is
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>_tick_counter, probably
20:55<sparr>the weird behavior of MoveGoodsToStation at low values is due to it using integer math. this explains why people often see splits even worse than expected, because at very low values as much as a 50% additional bias can be introduced
20:56<sparr>would it be feasible to use something like _tick_counter to control rounding the results?
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>spontaneously looks like the wrong approach
20:57<sparr>that is, if the result should be 2.8, then it is 2 for _tick_counter%5==0, 3 for all other ticks
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>MoveGoodsToStation is likely called every 256 ticks
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>ao this pseudo-rounding might be biased for some values
20:59<sparr>well, knowing how often it's called, divide out that factor first?
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>some instances of the daylength patch used improved rounding measures
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>you might want to look up those...
21:00<Sacro1>Sacro's daylength patch?
21:00<sparr>interesting, I shall investigate
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>no, not Sacro's daylength patch :p
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>but possibly Wolf01's daylength patch?
21:02<sparr>if movegoodstostation is called 12 times per month, the second place station would get no goods at all if the production is below about 18 per month... isn't 19 the lowest production?
21:03<sparr>Rubidium: I agree that many people are complaining about the overall state here. I'd love to see the function massively overhauled. I think the /2 penalty is definitely wrong when two stations are tied, and it seems unfair in a 100:99 situation as well.
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>i think the lowest default production is 4 per 256-tick period (about 32 per month)
21:07<Ammler>grad Sweden :-)
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>but newgrfs might produce any number of items
21:07<Ammler>grat*
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21:09<@Belugas>youm te doum
21:11<@Belugas>my computer choked and froze. might have asked too much of poor old clunker...
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>i have the same problem occasionally
21:11<@Belugas>multi-tracking, emailing, ripping dvd...
21:12<@Belugas>that's ba, isn't it?
21:12<@Belugas>wish for a real machine...
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>last time i was doing video conversion
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21:31<@Belugas>so... commun denominator :)
21:31*Belugas goes back to music editing
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22:23<notjotham>is there a way to disable coal or power stations?
22:31<notjotham>are there any must-have newgrafs?
22:37<welshdragon>grab the openttdcoop grfpack, it has everything
22:37<welshdragon>and yes, you can wholly disable industries, but not specific industries
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23:21<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 27 00:00:35 2010