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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-28

---Logopened Sun Feb 28 00:00:37 2010
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03:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r19286 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18648): [YAPP] If reversing at path signals was disabled, a train would not reverse when hitting the back of an one-way signal.
03:22*andythenorth would like to borrow quite a bit more money....but at some kind of severe interest rate :|
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03:55*andythenorth would like some cheap narrow gauge trains :|
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04:43<Terkhen>good morning
04:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r19287 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3650] (r19263): Don't store a boolean in a CommandCost.
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05:27<@Rubidium>yay... and once again 50% of the open bugs are Mac OS X bugs
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05:27<@Rubidium>such good people telling us about the brokenness of their unsupported 1.0.0-RC1 binaries
05:28<__ln__>drop it
05:31<Alberth>__ln__: noticed the "their unsopported" words?
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05:38*planetmaker is happy to at least report the errors ;-)
05:39<andythenorth>yay....50% of irc traffic is Rubidium complaining about OS X :D
05:39<@Rubidium>no, it's whining that we still don't have an Mac OS X maintainer
05:40<@Rubidium>I would've thought that 6 months would've been enough to spark someone's interest
05:42<planetmaker>if only my day had 48 hours :S
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05:43<ccfreak2k>Would you guess that such a function name might have something to do with SQL?
05:43<@Rubidium>no, rather with squirrel
05:43<ccfreak2k>(this isn't in openttd)
05:44<@Rubidium>although, IIRC squirrel doesn't use capitals in function names, so it's not
05:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r19288 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Move EnsureNoVehicleOnGround() and HasVehicleOnTunnelBridge() functions.
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05:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r19289 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Move _error_message assignment from check routine to caller.
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07:09<OwenS>Aha. So THATS why the slave nameservers weren't serving - I'd accidentally coupled a CNAME and an MX >_<
07:09<OwenS>Bind is obviously more picky than PowerDNS
07:10<TrueBrain>sometimes the one is picker then the other .. depends on the problem ;)
07:10<TrueBrain>for example, bind accepts .domain.tld, where PowerDNS refuses such entry
07:10<lennard>cname couping with anything else is bad
07:11<lennard>pointing an mx to a cname is bad as well
07:11<lennard>basic rules of dns :P
07:11<OwenS>I need to get out of the habit of CNAME meaning "Copy these A records" and into it meaning "Copy this record in it's entirety" :P
07:12<Elessar>It would be nice to have specialized CNAME, would not it?
07:13<TrueBrain>it would be nice if people used CNAMEs in a sane way :)
07:13*Alberth ponders renaming the channel to #dns-problems
07:13<Elessar>Like: lists.domain. SCNAME A machine.domain. along with lists.domain. MX othermachine.domain.…
07:13<TrueBrain>Alberth: better: #all-but-openttd
07:13<Alberth>yeah, #no-openttd-discussions-please is much better :)
07:14<OwenS>Elessar: We could have that if everything moved to PTR records
07:14<lennard>don't you mean TXT?
07:14<OwenS> IN PTR 0
07:14<lennard>oh right
07:14<Elessar>Not PTR.
07:14<lennard>thats the one
07:14<OwenS>PTR is reverse DNS :p
07:14<Elessar>Yes, it would be perfect.
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07:15<lennard>also, not gonna happen :)
07:15<Elessar>For me, CNAMEs are, as MX and PTR, perfect to avoid duplicating information, pointing logical names to canonical, hostnames.
07:19<OwenS>And the mail starts coming in...
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08:29<HackaLittleBit>Aaaah It would be so nice when tunnel bridge tile would be assigned immediately to vehicle the moment it is allowed to enter.:-)
08:31<HackaLittleBit>or tile of custom bridge head
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08:39<peter1138>s/when/if/ ?
08:42<HackaLittleBit>I just changed that before posting lol
08:43<HackaLittleBit>but ok "if"
08:50<HackaLittleBit>and TRACK_BIT_WORMHOLE when it realy is inside wormhole
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09:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't suppose anyone knows about S2TNG savegame hacking...
09:20<Ammler>maybe the opensettler guys?
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09:23<frosch123>without the TNG part i knew some stuff once
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose that changed heavily in the last 10 years :p
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09:33*SpComb^ wonders where the OpenTTD download stats are
09:34<@Rubidium>SpComb^: just check your logs :)
09:34<frosch123>hmm, how often has that question been asked last night?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>great... and the map editor crashes in wine...
09:37<SpComb^>well, I found
09:37<frosch123>i never liked s2 due to no random map creation
09:38<SpComb^>I was looking at settlers2.5 just now
09:38<SpComb^>their project home page is broken, but they have an lp site with a bzr-svn import
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09:41<SpComb^>how complete are the stats at
09:41<SpComb^>i.e. will you be celebrating the 1m downloads mark? :)
09:42<@Rubidium>it's only from since the new website is up
09:43<peter1138>and doesn't count distribution provided packages, of course
09:44<SpComb^>hmmk, so not a very useful 1m downloads mark
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09:48<Ammler>downloads from = trashed packages + distribution packages
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10:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r19290 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r19285): wrong path in log
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10:26<SpComb^>S2TNG is very confusing
10:27<SpComb^>3D shit :)
10:33<SpComb^>and also buggy... it just went into serious earthquake-shaking mode
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10:45<Eddi|zuHause>i hate forums where you have to be registered to view threads...
10:47<PeterT>you mean like
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it doesn't actually require registering, but it looks like the post was deleted...
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this is weird... i found a tool for decrypting S2TNG files here: but it only works on data files, on savegames it says "wrong password" [where "password"=="filename"], i found an updated version here but that crashes with a stack overflow in wine...
12:57<mjk>Anyone knows why I can't join a new airport to my existing bus/truck stations in (6 MB)?
12:57<mjk>I had a small airport there before, then removed it and wanted to replace it with a city airport. Whenever I try to place it with CTRL, it says "Build a separate station". What gives?
12:57<PeterT>Without opening the game - check the station spread
12:57<mjk>I'm using 1.0.0rc1.
12:58<PeterT>Advanced settings -> Stations -> Max Station Spread
12:58<mjk>station spread ... hmmm ... checking
12:58<mjk>Reading the wiki ...
12:59<mjk>Aaah, I see ...
12:59<PeterT>what's the problem, then?
12:59<SpComb^>decrypting? :/
13:00<mjk>PeterT: Yippiiiieh, it works!
13:00<mjk>PeterT: Thanks!
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: yeah, apparently they have some crazy algorithm for that :p
13:01<PeterT>mjk: Welcome
13:02*SpComb^ wonders how legally valid settlers2.5 is
13:02<SpComb^>hmm, lua?
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>they say there's a fixed password for maps, but they don't say what it is...
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13:09<SpComb^>point one, it's obfuscation, not encryption, and point two, why bother >_<
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea...
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13:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r19291 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Rename HasVehicleOnTunnelBridge() to TunnelBridgeIsFree() and return a CommandCost status.
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13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19292 /trunk/src/lang/ (18 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 1 changes by Kayos
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: danish - 1 changes by silentStatic
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: esperanto - 46 changes by Ailanto, kristjan
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
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14:44<Eddi|zuHause>bäh... 4MB...
14:47<SpComb^>a little water won't hurt
14:48<SpComb^>this is scary... google shows "real time" twitter stuff in search results :/
14:50<OwenS>[ASI] Execute LitFunc at (0xd9b100,0,0,1) <-- YAAY! My VM just took an opcode :-)
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14:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19293 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3566]: Some methods of AIAbstractList left invalid iterators.
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15:05<planetmaker> <-- can tell me anyone the difference between the zip calls from within the makefile and the command prompt or why the first semi-fails?
15:06<planetmaker>I fail to see any difference...
15:06<FauxFaux>It's probably something to do with you using a pastebin site that doesn't work on some isps.
15:06<@Rubidium>maybe zip called from makefile is the one declared in Makefile.config/local (possibly 7z?)
15:07<planetmaker>hm... might be possible, but you see the call make made; it's the same
15:07<planetmaker>(using verbose mode)
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15:13<Eddi|zuHause>"<!-- Hack: used for temporary objects... couldn't be deleted, too dangerous before master date -->" <-- that sounds promising :p
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15:25<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19294 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Change: [NoAI] Remove HasNext() from all lists/iterators and add IsEnd() instead.
15:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19295 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: introduce wrapper functions for GRFConfig::name/info
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15:36<OwenS>frosch123: Isn't changing HasNext to IsEnd going to break lots of AIs? :P
15:37<TrueBrain>OwenS: only if you think frosch123 is stupid :)
15:37<OwenS>I don't think so. I'm wondering what hes doing based upon that commit :p
15:37<frosch123>oh shit, now that you mention it
15:37<TrueBrain>I assume he finds IsEnd a more sane name then HasNext :)
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15:38<frosch123>HasNext did not do what it said :)
15:38<TrueBrain>frosch123: seeing it is !IsEnd, I wonder what you expected it to do :)
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15:38<frosch123>!IsEnd is actually HadNext
15:39<OwenS>Incidentally, has the Squirrel guy started fixing bugs yet or is he still as unresponsive as he was ~5 months ago? :p
15:39<Yexo>he's still not really responsive
15:39<Yexo>but as far as I know all bugs that caused crashes have been fixed
15:39<Yexo>at least in openttd
15:39<frosch123>the docs said HasNext tells whether the next call to Next is valid, but actually it checked whether the last call was valid
15:39<TrueBrain>and he tends to backports our fixes ;)
15:40<TrueBrain>frosch123: ah, yes; changes over time tend to invalidate naming :)
15:41*OwenS considers making AlterScript syntacticallly more compatible with Squirrel :p
15:42*frosch123 should have used google in the first place instead of checking all noai pages on the wiki manually :s
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15:58<Ammler>SmatZ: is the bug we had with yesterday nightly fixed?
15:58<Ammler>(beer beer beer)
15:58<@Rubidium>you had no bug!
15:59<Ammler>we had none?
15:59<@Rubidium>or do you mean FS#3651? :)
15:59<Ammler>well, we did go one day back it worked again...
15:59<frosch123>the "if (strcmp(GetLogin(), "coop"') == ) abort();" is a feature
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16:00<insulfrog>hi all
16:00<frosch123>or if you mean the crash shortly after find servers, it was fixed around 30 minutes after the nightly
16:01<Ammler>Rubidium: do I care about OSX? :-)
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16:01<@Rubidium>you don't have ottdcoop players that use OSX?
16:02<planetmaker> <-- suspectedly like that upon map generation
16:02<planetmaker>but that's the h2h server
16:03<planetmaker>Message: Assertion failed at line 1741 of /home/ottdc/hg-repos/head-to-head/src/industry_cmd.cpp: t != NULL
16:03<@Rubidium>let me guess, it's already fixed as it's a quite old version of trunk that's based upon
16:03<planetmaker>yes. 53 minutes old
16:03<@Rubidium>then it's broken!
16:08<Ammler>something else, if I define a station to use existing sprites, it uses other sprites for monorail and other for maglev.
16:08<Ammler>is it possible to set that offset?
16:11<frosch123>no, it is fixed for the old railtypes
16:11<frosch123>(and controlled by the station-graphics property of new railtypes)
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16:14<frosch123>but actually, why would you want to modify it?
16:14<Ammler>I try to make a "debug" grf for the opengfx houses
16:15<Ammler>that way, I could make a group of 6 sprites
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16:17<Alberth>planetmaker: line 1741 is "*ip = new Industry(tile);" (r19287) line 1733 is "assert(t != NULL);"
16:17<_newage_>squirrel? do you use squirrel scriptng language in ottd?
16:17<Alberth>no, we include random additional libs just for fun
16:18<_newage_>very funny
16:18<Alberth>the new AIs are written using it
16:18<planetmaker>Alberth: the line I posted was from the h2h repository
16:18<planetmaker>I'm about to test in trunk
16:18<__ln__>i suspect "assert(t != NULL);" is not Tron-approved way of using assert.
16:19*planetmaker suspects that Alberth has a highlight on assert ;-)
16:19<Alberth>no, just happened to read the last stuff before going to bed :)
16:19<planetmaker>Have a good night then
16:20<planetmaker>Sounds tempting. Possibly I should give in, too ;-)
16:20*Alberth needs to find out what Tron-approved means first :)
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>you don't know Tron? :p
16:21<Alberth>I think I added that assert not so long ago
16:22<Alberth>I know Tron, but not his opinion about assert
16:22<planetmaker>ah :-)
16:22<planetmaker>hmpf. Fantastic. linking dedicated server fails with undefined iconv symbols :S
16:24<planetmaker>and why... unix.o on a mac? hm... let's see
16:24<@Rubidium>because Bjarni decided not to duplicate that piece of code
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16:28<planetmaker>can someone fill me in how to get a list of symbols defined within a library?
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16:28<@Rubidium>objdump --something <library>
16:29<planetmaker>thank you :-)
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: asserts are only "wrong" if t is some kind of user input or a result of malloc
16:30<__ln__>yeah, you're right
16:30<__ln__>28. syys   2004 13:13:18 <Tron> Celestar: cleaning up the mess truelight made ^^
16:30<__ln__>28. syys   2004 13:13:37 <Tron> Packet *packet = malloc(sizeof(Packet));
16:30<__ln__>28. syys   2004 13:13:37 <Tron> assert(packet != NULL);
16:30<__ln__>28. syys   2004 13:13:57 <Tron> he deserves spanking for crimes like that
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16:31<@Rubidium>English only please :)
16:32<__ln__>"syys" = Sep
16:32<frosch123>oh, mb here?
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16:33<@Rubidium>frosch123: ofcourse he's not here... it's a lesser form of communication
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i have never seen him in here...
16:33<planetmaker>it's a tainted channel
16:33<frosch123>but someone quoted stuff from 2004
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16:37<__ln__>wtf, i browsed the log and found a line where Tron jokes about something and uses a smiley
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16:39<Zuu>Seems I'm a bit late but I hope foreach(abc in list) will work in squirrel just as before.
16:40<Zuu>or foreach(abc, _ in list)
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17:19<PeterT>Hi HackaLittleBit
17:19<HackaLittleBit>hello peter
17:19<HackaLittleBit>trying to upload patch but get err msg
17:19<HackaLittleBit>The upload was rejected because the uploaded file was identified as a possible attack vector.The upload was rejected because the uploaded file was identified as a possible attack vector.
17:19<PeterT>I meant to test your patch, is there a binary?
17:21<HackaLittleBit>I checked the file can't find nothing ??
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>HackaLittleBit: upload a patch where?
17:23<HackaLittleBit>to my first page
17:23<HackaLittleBit>of tun bri signals
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>the forum does only allow certain file extensions, did you check that?
17:23<HackaLittleBit>shure .patch like allways
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>then talk to orudge
17:25<HackaLittleBit>I think he is buzy :)
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17:31<@orudge>it might be the touble periods in it, HackaLittleBit
17:32<@orudge>ie, the . in the version number, and also in the .patch
17:32<@orudge>phpBB might well have some sort of check against that
17:32<@orudge>in case it thinks you're uploading a .doc.exe or something daft
17:32<aber>.doc is no secure extension.
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17:33<HackaLittleBit>thanks owen I am checking, I changed documentation I'll let you know when I don't succeed
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17:52<HackaLittleBit>no its not the points :(, its something inside, I am checking
18:01<HackaLittleBit>orudge: I changed somethings in the html docs , when I took it out I was able to upload ?? duno why
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18:04<HackaLittleBit>rubidium: you still wan't to split tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp
18:08<Ammler> <-- no jumps backwards possible?
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18:24<Ammler> <-- SimCity :-)
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18:27<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: no, NFO does not support loops
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i'd say 'eye cancer'
18:29<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: it does
18:29<Ammler> <-- code for it
18:30<OwenS>I wish I could read NFO :p
18:30<Ammler>oh, didn't I comment it nicely, though I have no idea about Action1/2/3
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: you can write that, but does it actually _work_?
18:32-!-Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-77-86-76-2.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:33<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: doesn't the image above prove it?
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>no, a "proof" is a chain of arguments that one can actually _follow_
18:34<Ammler>well, the code is done for one station pair
18:34<@Rubidium>if you can make loops in NFO that much be considered a bug
18:34<Ammler>but it loops there 200 times
18:37<Ammler>according to grf spec, it is possible to jump back to a label
18:37<@Rubidium>yeah, and likely to be very buggy
18:38<Ammler>yeah, I didn't expect it to work :-)
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: which part of the specs says that?
18:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: action7: num-sprites
18:38<@Rubidium>"Note that it is generally not safe to skip backwards, i.e. to an earlier position. While the patch will happily do that, you will get strange results if certain actions are repeated. Only action 0, 6, 7, 9, C and D are reasonably safe to execute more than once."
18:39<@Rubidium>in other words: if it doesn't work it is "not our problem"
18:39<Ammler>as said, I didn't expect it..., quite cool, it does...
18:40<Ammler>well, else you could make the loop with bash or something else
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i did send in my vote for title game, right?
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>i have a memory like a sieve sometimes...
18:51<@Rubidium>doesn't your 'sent' mailbox have a memory less like a sieve?
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm, but do i remember to look in the mailbox? :p
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's not when you forget something, but when you forget where to look for something, where the trouble starts :p
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18:54<Reinbachh>Quiiick question about music, for some reason it's not playing
18:54<Reinbachh>Sound effects are fine, but music isn't!
18:54<Reinbachh>Any ideas?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>Reinbachh: which OS?
18:55<Reinbachh>X-Fi sound card, which definitely does play midi
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>Reinbachh: did you copy the "gm" folder from your original ttd-windows disk?
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>ttd-dos music does not work
18:55<Reinbachh>The gm folder is in the ottd installation directory, yar
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>did you select "original_windows" as music set?
18:56<Reinbachh>I can see that choice for graphics options
18:56<Reinbachh>Not sound
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>which openttd version?
18:56<Reinbachh>I'm 100% sure it's something simple like a config thing
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>ok, that doesn't have the music selection yet.
18:57<Reinbachh>Ah! :]
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>if you load a game, and go into the juke box, and press "play", what does it do?
18:57<Reinbachh>I press the button
18:58<Reinbachh>The track names are all in the jukebox happily
18:58<Reinbachh>I bet it's something in a .ini or .cfg file which needs changing
18:58<Reinbachh>Either something isn't pointing in the right place or whatever...
18:58<+glx>track names are there even when the files are not IIRC
18:59<+glx>where exactly is the gm dir ?
19:00<Reinbachh>Hmm, the mystery deepens, when I rename one of the files to .mid and try to play it, it's silent
19:01<OwenS>I think we can safely assess it's not an OpenTTD problem then
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>Reinbachh: if you open the windows mixer settings, maybe midi output is set to silent?
19:02<PeterT>Is it too late to vote?
19:03<Reinbachh>Eddi|zuHause- I just checked that and it was. I've turned it up and it's still not playing.
19:03<Reinbachh>Also the equaliser thing on the jukebox doesn't move up and down, nor does it play at all
19:03*Reinbachh is baffled
19:03<peter1138>no soundfont loaded?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>Reinbachh: the equalizer never moves, as openttd cannot get feedback from the midi player
19:04<Reinbachh>Ah ok...
19:04<Reinbachh>I'm 100% sure it's my system though, definitely not ottd :p
19:04<PeterT>Is it too late to vote?
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: yes, 5 minutes
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>maybe if you ask nice enough ;)
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19:05<PeterT>Rubidium: Would you mind if I please told you my vote here?
19:08<Reinbachh>Hm, PC won't play midi files *at all*
19:09*Reinbachh shrugs :D
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>so much for "definitely does play midi" :p
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19:10<Reinbachh>I've got two soundcards in this machine
19:10<Reinbachh>And it's using the one I've mostly disabled
19:10<Reinbachh>Silly computer
19:10<Reinbachh>Mystery solved
19:10<__ln__>surprisingly, the implication "false → true" is false.
19:10<Reinbachh>Yes it mightn't be is.
19:13<Reinbachh>Thanks for your help, I think it'll be fixed after the restart :p
19:13*Reinbachh watches his PC burst into flames
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19:14<PeterT>That can't be a good sign
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19:50<aber>__ln__: ?
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19:52<__ln__>aber: bitte?
19:53<aber>Ex falso quodlibet
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>aber bitte mit Sahne?
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>... i wonder if i have this song...
19:55<__ln__>Ex astris scientia
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm... looks like i don't...
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why did anybody put "cargo" in "cargodist"? i never get to actually transport cargo in such a game...
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20:00<Eddi|zuHause>and we definitely need a river port that can be placed on flat land, instead of a slope...
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20:14<OwenS>OpenTTD soo needs a "crashed trains disappear sooner" option
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20:29<Eddi|zuHause>debian and php is kind of a cold war, i have the feeling...
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20:51<Eddi|zuHause>man, the ship pathfinder is stupid... it can't even manage a simple bend in a river...
20:53<@Rubidium>OPF? It's not stupid, it just stops after 4 turns
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>4 is kinda very little...
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably fine on open sea, but on narrow rivers?
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>and opengfx rivers need more visible "rocks" in the waterfalls, so it is more noticeable that they cannot be passed by ships...
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20:57<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: please, I agree :-)
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>and why can i not build a bridge over a lock?
21:03<+glx>glitch prevention in case some use a way too big sprite replacement ?
21:03<+glx>like for stations and houses
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21:12<Eddi|zuHause>why is openttd using 10% cpu when paused and minimised?
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>music is stopped
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22:10<PeterT>zachanima, ello
22:10<zachanima>oh hai PeterT
22:10<zachanima>so wait oh I can still make the vote, right?
22:11<PeterT>No... :-(
22:11<PeterT>Ask nicely :-)
22:12<Eddi|zuHause>(actually the vote goes till TOMORROW night :p(
22:12<zachanima>until 01-03-2010 23:59
22:12<zachanima>so yeah
22:12<zachanima>well I had better make up my mind NOW, then
22:12<zachanima>or today anyway
22:13<PeterT>Fuck me
22:13<PeterT>I rushed into voting
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>the spontaneous decisions sometimes are the best
22:14<zachanima>arguably so - or at least might be truest to your feelings (without the abstraction of reason)
22:14<zachanima>or some such
22:15<zachanima>anyway, I am still somewhat undecided between two of them
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22:16<Eddi|zuHause>if you're unsure from the screenshots, load them into the game and watch for a while
22:17<zachanima>I have
22:17<zachanima>with all of them
22:17<zachanima>I spent like 10 minutes just looking at each of them in motion
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22:17<zachanima>so way past spontanity now
22:18<PeterT>I voted for #2
22:18<zachanima>I am undecided between #1 and #3
22:23<zachanima>I can't sleep - so I shall wake up and do the voting
22:23<zachanima>or get up, rather
22:39<zachanima>gee, that took a while
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23:45<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 12*31*74
23:45<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 27528
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 01 00:00:37 2010