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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-01

---Logopened Mon Mar 01 00:00:37 2010
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03:33<Terkhen>good morning
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04:16<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: using pulse or so?
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05:16<TrueBrain>slowchat? :p
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05:32<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: good morning; would've replied sooner, but then it wouldn't be slowchatting anymore!
05:32<TrueBrain>I agree
05:32<TrueBrain>DOH!
05:34<peter1138>hmm
05:35<peter1138>how can i tell if a rail tile is within a town?
05:35<@Rubidium>getting the town zone? As done for houses
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05:41<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no, i don't use pulse
05:41<peter1138>don't see much relevant there
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06:03<__ln__>wisdom of the day: never use NFS for anything on Linux unless you are a thirty-ton elephant
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06:04<Noldo>why?
06:06<__ln__>because in any error situation everything blocks forever, in a non-interruptable way.
06:07<ccfreak2k>NFS is, in general, a terrible thing.
06:29<SpComb^>how does being a 30t elephant help?
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06:38<thingwath>No 30t elephant ever had a problem with NFS, I guess.
06:41<peter1138>there's a "soft" mode, which generally doesn't help much
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06:59<peter1138>DaleStan, do you know of the elrail pylons & wires action5 layout is documented?
06:59<peter1138>(or anyone :p)
07:00<planetmaker>peter1138, I don't know about 'documented', but I'd suspect something like that in the DutchCatanery or CanSet to happen
07:01<peter1138>?
07:01<planetmaker>or you didn't mean documented in as 'is used'?
07:02<peter1138>i mean documented as in documented
07:03<DaleStan>peter1138: I'm pretty sure the closest thing we have to documentation is elrails[w].grf/ttdpbase[w].grf.
07:04-!-lestat [~Mesias7.4@188.148.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
07:04<lestat>hola
07:04<lestat>hay alguien que hable español?
07:05<peter1138>pardon?
07:05<lestat>hi all
07:05<lestat>as do I start server and see me?
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>you need to configure your router and firewall
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>@ports
07:06<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
07:07<lestat>I have port 7939 open on your router and firewall
07:08<planetmaker>well. wrong port ;-)
07:09<lestat>OPENTTD 3979 3979 TCP/UDP 3979 3979 192.168.1.30
07:09<lestat>openttd 3978 3978 TCP/UDP 3978 3978 192.168.1.130
07:09<lestat>ok??
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>that should be ok
07:10<@Rubidium>the IPs differ
07:10<@Rubidium>...30 vs ...130
07:11<lestat>in windows firewall too?
07:14<lestat>ports are already open and can not see the server but I do?
07:14<lestat>or is it takes a while?
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>it should list on servers.openttd.org after a few minutes
07:16<lestat>few more or less?
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>if it's more than 5 i'd start to worry...
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07:20<lestat>search my server
07:20<lestat>named
07:20<lestat>españa
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07:31<J1gS9nA4k>fingers crossed, to see if they are lucky now
07:31*J1gS9nA4k se va a cambiar el nick
07:31<J1gS9nA4k>fingers crossed, to see if they are lucky now
07:32*J1gS9nA4k se va a cambiar el nick
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07:34*lestat2 se va a cambiar el nick
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08:02<lestat>can not get my server appears
08:03<lestat>I'm desperate
08:03<lestat>who else can I do?
08:04<jordi>lestat: Rubidium told you IPs differ
08:04<jordi>are you sure your network setup is OK?
08:06<lestat>I connect to that ip 130
08:08<planetmaker>yes, but 30 != 130
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08:08<planetmaker>seems an unstable connection ;-)
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08:11<SpComb^>get a SixXs tunnel and set up an IPv6-only server
08:12<jordi>gg
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 01 08:28:41 2010
---Logopened Mon Mar 01 08:28:50 2010
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08:28-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 114 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 107 normal]
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08:30<OwenS>Sixxs? I;d suggest 6to4 but I realise that would duplicate your problems ;p
08:30<OwenS>You could just rent a VPS :P
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08:33<SpComb^>teredo
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08:42<SpComb^>"Probably a lot of potential players rejected the game because of old/trivial look in opposition to present-day commercial games"
08:42<SpComb^>their loss
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08:42<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that retro look was the entire point of the game ;)
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>it isn't cluttered by fancy but pointless graphics, instead it is reduced to pure gameplay
08:45*fjb doesn't like Civ IV for its eye hurting user interface.
08:46<SpComb^>same thing with S2 / S2TNG
08:46*Eddi|zuHause does like Civ IV for its complex and flexible gameplay
08:47*fjb would like the game play of Civ IV with the user interface of Civ III.
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know the user interface of Civ III, tbh...
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08:48<fjb>Not everything overdimensionally big and eye hurting colorful.
08:50<SpComb^>one friend already told me that he'd rather play S2TNG than S2, because he "likes graphics and doesn't mind sacrificing a little clarity"
08:51<SpComb^>2D isometric graphics are a lot more polished than the 3D stuff :(
08:51<ashb>S2TNG?
08:51<SpComb^>Settlers II - 10th anniversary thing
08:51<ashb>ahh
08:51<SpComb^>(or The Next Generation)
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>internally, it's called S2DNG, i believe
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>as in "Die nächste Generation"
08:53<Forked>too bad I wont buy settlers 7 .. even if it's good. freaking insane copy protection
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically the whole opposite of OpenTTD, they focused on new graphics without changing gameplay at all
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>except a handful of bug fixes
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>although i do think the graphics look neat ;)
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>they could have used one or two zoom out steps, though...
08:58<SpComb^>quite
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09:08<@Rubidium>yeah, point'n'drool vs good gameplay
09:09-!-Beklugas is now known as Belugas
09:09<Belugas>hello
09:11<zachanima>'morning
09:12<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause: But the gameplay was already pretty much ok IMHO :-)
09:13<zachanima>neat. There's a town here in Denmark with a station that, if translated, would be called "Darkness Station"
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>blathijs: that is true, but it doesn't mean there wasn't room for improvement. but i guess the community did ask for an almost-unchanged gameplay
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09:43<Eddi|zuHause>blathijs: one thing that is definitely missing is attack by ship. once you settled an island, there's no way that enemies can interfer
09:44<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, ship stuff is still a bit lacking (also the lack of management of goods transfers by ship)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>and relocating goods between storage houses is... inadequate...
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>and you can only see when houses are underoccupied, not when they are overloaded
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>you lack diagnosis tools for which is the bottleneck in your economy
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09:57<_newage_>then sort it out
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11:27<mjk>Hiho!
11:30<mjk>How can I use the original TTD MIDI music from the DOS version? I have a 0,4 MB file named "gm.cat", and I can use a tool from the net (tttools.zip) to extract 22 files from it, but when I name the resulting files "gm_tt00.gm" etc., OpenTTD 1.0.0rc1 claims it's the Windows version MIDI files, and that they are corrupted.
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>openttd does not understand the dos midi format
11:31<mjk>Eddi|zuHause: Okay, thanks for the sad news. :-}
11:31<mjk>Interesting, that the formats differ at all ...
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>the dos music files contain some obscure formats optimised for certain sound cards, the windows version contains clean general midi
11:32<@Rubidium>the DOS version is something midi-ish specific for a specific 'brand' of sound cards, the Windows version is generic
11:32<mjk>Eddi|zuHause: Aaaah, okay ...
11:32<mjk>Rubidium: Okay, thanks ...
11:32<@Rubidium>same that the dos graphics use another palette than the windows version
11:33<mjk>Rubidium: Ah, right, I saw that in a menu somewhere ...
11:33<mjk>At least I'm glad that OpenTTD runs with the original DOS gfx and sfx files. Thanks to the developers!
11:34<mjk>(Yes, I know OpenGFX and OpenSFX, but the orig files are just in case that Open* proves to be not "different" enough from the originals and some assh^Wlawyer/judge claims it's not free)
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11:57*Belugas yawns
11:57*Belugas looks at the clock and is desperate
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's already 18:00
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12:25<OwenS>Why do people make crappy JPEGS then upload PNG conversions of them?
12:26<@Rubidium>OwenS: are you sure? Maybe it's the forums dimwitty resize "feature"
12:26<OwenS>Oh no
12:26<OwenS>Opera Turbo has enabled itself
12:26<OwenS>My connection is obviously sucking
12:26<@Rubidium>(the one that converts a 200 KiB 1-pixel-too-big png to a 800+ KiB png)
12:27<OwenS>There, much better
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12:58<SpComb^>darn, you can't transport boats between islands in S2 :o
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13:06<@Rubidium>SpComb^: use IS2
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19296 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 12 changes by Kayos
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: esperanto - 22 changes by Ailanto, kristjan
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 1 changes by fumantsu
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14:13*Belugas plays som eBloody Time Zones, agina
14:13<@Belugas>agina
14:13<@Belugas>again!!!
14:16-!-peter1139 [peter@cats.meow.at] has joined #openttd
14:16<peter1139>hurr @ power cut
14:17<@Rubidium>why from Austria?
14:17<@SmatZ>peter@cats.meow.at, that's scary
14:17<peter1139>why not
14:18<peter1139>also, can,t place that ebay bid :/
14:18<frosch123>maybe he searched for pikka
14:19<@Belugas>peter1139, when will it expire?
14:21-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:22<peter1139>already has
14:24-!-peter1139 [peter@cats.meow.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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14:32<peter1138>it's about the only shell account i have that doesn't need an ssh key
14:33<mjk>Okay, this is *way* to confusing, so I have to ask here: Can I run a plain vanilla 1.0.0rc1 with 32bpp graphics? Not necessarily with full-zoom-support, but the nice 32bpp graphics.
14:33<peter1138>yes
14:33<mjk>Yippiiiiieh!
14:33<peter1138>and, indeed 0.7.x, and 0.6.x (i think)
14:34<mjk>So I'll try ...
14:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19297 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Variable scope and documentation of DoCreateNewIndustry().
14:35<SpComb^>lolwtf, just found 255 boats in one harbor building
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14:40<mjk>Hmmm ... is there any object on the 1.0.0rc1 intro screen where I could see a noticable 32bpp improvemtn? Because I think it doesn't work (yet).
14:42<frosch123>just turn on transparency
14:42<mjk>Checking
14:42<frosch123>or font antialiasing
14:42<@Rubidium>mjk: depends on the blitter and whether you've got the right grahpics
14:43<mjk>As far as I understood, copying the content of the "32Bpp Graphics Base Set" to ~/.openttd/data should be enough ... so I unpacked the .7z file and put the resulting sprites/ directory into ~/.openttd/data
14:43<frosch123>most important: you have to start it with "-b 32bpp-optimized" or "-b 32bpp-anim"
14:43<frosch123>resp. set it in openttd.cfg
14:44<mjk>frosch123: A-haaa! Will try ...
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14:49<__ln__>gaah. okay, *now* my NFS server finally got back operational and all the blocked processes on another system were unblocked.
14:49<mjk>Interesting. The only difference (also switched transparency on/off with "x") I can see that with "-b 32bpp-*", the mouse cursor looks more like the original. Everything else seems the usual 8bpp dithered gfx ...
14:50<mjk>__ln__: NFS suxx, we know ... :-/
14:50<mjk>__ln__: (Even with operational hardware)
14:50<__ln__>13:03 < __ln__> wisdom of the day: never use NFS for anything on Linux unless you are a thirty-ton elephant
14:51<mjk>__ln__: Damn, too late. :-} Using NFS for exported $HOME ... including Maildir-style mailbox. No, new mail checking was more reliable w/o NFS.
14:51<mjk>*sigh*
14:52<mjk>Is there anything I'm missing: OpenTTD 1.0.0rc1 +
14:53<mjk>Is there anything I'm missing: OpenTTD 1.0.0rc1 + OpenGfx + OpenSfx (unused) + 32 Bpp Gfx Base Set + 32 Bpp Full Tar Pack?
14:53<mjk>And "-b 32bpp-anim/optimized", of course.
14:53<@Rubidium>might be that the bases gfx things depend on the original graphics or so
14:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19298 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] segfault when station vars 0xF2/0xF3 is accessed when there is no truck/bus stop
14:54<mjk>Rubidium: Okay, I got the DOS original, will try that ...
14:54<@Rubidium>it's just that "nobody" seems to want to use 32bpp, so it probably does not work very well
14:54<peter1138>at least you don't need to untar them now :D
14:54<@Rubidium>mjk: and then probably only the window version of the graphics
14:55<mjk>Rubidium: Grmf, damn ...
14:56<frosch123>if you untar it hte foldername has to match the .grf files
14:56<mjk>Rubidium: Interesting ... why is that so? It's so much nicer! On the screenshots at least ...
14:56<peter1138>there are screenshots?
14:56<peter1138>the full-zoom packs are not even compatible with trunk's 32bpp, so...
14:57<@Rubidium>mjk: the dos graphics is very seldomly used
14:57<mjk>frosch123: for the 32bpp base gfx set, that's true, e.g. I have: ~/.openttd/data/opengfx1_base.grf and ~/.openttd/data/sprites/opengfx1_base/
14:58<mjk>Rubidium: Yes, I thought I'd bought the Windows version, because it came on CD ...
14:58<mjk>Rubidium: But it seems the DOS version also came on CD ...
14:58<mjk>Rubidium: The DOS files are 16 MB.
14:58<mjk>frosch123: The full tar pack has only TAR files, however.
14:58<frosch123>with opengfx it should work :)
14:59<mjk>frosch123: *growl* Seems to work for everyone except for li'l mjk :-(
14:59-!-PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-65-96-204-251.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:59<peter1138>mjk, the only difference, for 32bpp purposes, is the directory name
15:00<mjk>peter1138: So ~/.openttd/data/opengfx1_base.grf and ~/.openttd/data/sprites/opengfx1_base/ is okay? OpenTTD will override the files in ~/.openttd/data with the files from ~/.openttd/data/sprites?
15:01<peter1138>probably :s
15:01<mjk>peter1138: :-}
15:02<mjk>Oh well, it seems I have to wait until the 32bpp (and maybe the full-zoom-support) gets officially supported ... I shouldn't be so impatient at my age. ;-)
15:02<mjk>Thanks for your help anyway, folks!
15:03*OwenS ponders why ld cant find symbols supposedly generated by my explicit template specialization
15:03<@Belugas>mmh... why wold you say that? There is an age to be patient?
15:03<peter1138>mjk, sure they're not graphics for extra zoom? heh
15:04<mjk>Belugas: Yeah, when you're so old that you have to wait for the nurse. ;-)
15:04<@Belugas>hehehe
15:04<mjk>peter1138: Hmm ... I downloaded them from http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46682
15:04<@Belugas>at that age, you actually forget that there is a nurse coming in !
15:05<peter1138>then that will be graphics for extra zoom
15:05<mjk>peter1138: Though the post says "OTTD with Full zoom support", I didn't think that they needed different versions ...
15:05<mjk>Belugas: |-)
15:05<mjk>peter1138: Damn.
15:05<peter1138>the author of the patches decided to make it non-compatible
15:05<mjk>peter1138: You don't happen to have a link for the 32bpp (w/o Zoom) files?
15:05<mjk>peter1138: Oh great ...
15:05<mjk>peter1138: We need more versions !!!111oneeleven
15:07<frosch123>mjk: if you use opengfx 32bpp from dev.openttdcoop.org you can easily notice its presence by looking at the openttd letters in the intro menu
15:07<mjk>That's not fair ... everything that says only "32bpp" is actually "32bpp full zoom"
15:07<mjk>frosch123: *checking*
15:09<frosch123>but despite of that it only contains 3 toyland houses, mabye one tropical, and the info icon :)
15:09<peter1138>heh, yeah, not very complete
15:13<mjk>ARGH!!!
15:14<mjk>What is the FSCKing matter? Am I too stupid to copy files??!!
15:14<mjk>I .... I ....
15:14<mjk>I despair.
15:15<mjk>I can see the graphics with a picture viewer, yes. But the absolutely do not appear in the game. Not with -b 32bpp-anim and not with -b 32bpp-optimized
15:15<mjk>Am I too old? I'm 38.
15:16<frosch123>i have ~/.openttd/data/sprites/ogfx1_base/4627.png, 32bpp-anim and the opengfx 8bpp base set
15:16<peter1138>not too old, just less young
15:16<mjk>:-}
15:16<mjk>what, what, what??! sprites? Okay, will copy it to that directory -- the original hierarchy in the zip file was: data/opengfx1_base/....
15:17<mjk>YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:17<frosch123>8bpp opengfx has yellow letters, when 32bpp is activated they become - hmm - a bit blue
15:17<mjk>FINALLY!
15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r19299 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: store the most compatible ttd airport type in AirportSpec
15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix: [NewGRF] return the ttd airport type in station var 0xF1
15:17<peter1138>it works. now you just need to find grpahics... :s
15:17<mjk>Now I want the balls of the guy who packed that zip file!
15:17<mjk>His balls! NOW!
15:18*mjk tries to cool down -- by looking at the new 32bpp logo ;-)
15:18<frosch123>just open a task at their bug tracker :)
15:18<mjk>frosch123: :-))
15:18-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc0d89.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:18<mjk>frosch123: Thanks a zillion!
15:18<mjk>Bug trackers ... tried to register for the openttd bts, but to no avail ...
15:19<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx32bpp/issues <- there
15:19<mjk>I hate it when there is no standard, GUI-less bug reporting tool ...
15:19<mjk>frosch123: Will try ...
15:20*Rubidium considers HTTP and HTML to be standards
15:20*Rubidium also considers telnet/nc GUI-less
15:20<mjk>Rubidium: Errr ... well ... GUI-less, but also ... USE-less. :-)
15:20<mjk>Rubidium: I thought more of a ncurses/CLI based tool.
15:20<mjk>Like "reportbug" in Debian.
15:21<@Rubidium>then report it there
15:21<Ammler>frosch123: that isn't 32bpp project...
15:21<frosch123>not?
15:21<planetmaker>There is none really ;-)
15:21<@Rubidium>but then, reportbug *is* not standard
15:21<frosch123>it just says in its name
15:21<+glx>opengfx32bpp is not 32bpp ?
15:21<@Rubidium>it's custom-build for Debian
15:21<Ammler>that is just for opengfx 32bpp sprites
15:21<mjk>Rubidium: Hmmm ... yes, best bet. Though that should be for specifically Debian-related bugs ...
15:21<planetmaker>well, it is... sort of
15:22<@Rubidium>whereas flyspray is *more* a standard
15:22<mjk>Rubidium: flyspray? cvhecking ...
15:22<mjk>frosch123: As always, I cannot register for their BTS ... *sigh* But thanks for finding out the URL anyway!
15:22<Ammler>I guess, best place for 32bpp issues is at tt-forums, imo.
15:23<mjk>Rubidium: Hm, the homepage says "web-based" .. does that mean: no ncurses/CLI tool?
15:23<+glx>Ammler: but at tt-forums they tend to do only extra zoom
15:23<aber>standard...html...bugtracker... http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://bugs.openttd.org/
15:23-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:23<planetmaker>the only 32bpp project really maintained there is the http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/32bpp-extra/repository
15:23<planetmaker>so... the extra newgrf replacement
15:23-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:23<Ammler>:-)
15:23<@Rubidium>mjk: yes, unless someone has written such a tool
15:24<@Rubidium>feel free to do so by the way
15:24<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:24<@Rubidium>just like someone did for Debian
15:24<planetmaker>mjk, why would you not be able to register at a bug tracker?
15:24<mjk>Rubidium: Okay, thanks ... if I had the nerves, I'd do that ... but then again, what good is such a tool, if not everyone uses the underlying database?
15:25<mjk>planetmaker: I don't know. I never get validation emails ...
15:25<@Rubidium>'cause reportbug was written *months* after debbugs was written
15:25<Ammler>then you should look for a better email isp
15:25<mjk>planetmaker: Maybe I should switch to another spam-mail-address supplier than spambog.com ...
15:26<mjk>Ammler: The only BTS I ever supplied a "real" address is the Debian bug tracker.
15:26<@Rubidium>I hate people using those for the bug tracker. Those bug reports are as useless as anonymous bug reports
15:26<planetmaker>mjk, then use an e-mail address which you actually can receive...
15:27*planetmaker agrees with Rubidium ... then there's no way to get back. And the quality is usually the same
15:27<mjk>planetmaker: I can receive spambog.com mails. It's a temporary mailbox with arbitrarily chose mailbox names.
15:27<mjk>planetmaker: The quality of my bug reports is not like "hey this stinx, nothing works, I got an error message but will not tell you which !!!11", rest assured. |-)
15:28<planetmaker>how can I know?
15:28<@Rubidium>then what kind of bug report is it?
15:28<planetmaker>Your effort to report kinda leads to this assumption
15:28<@Rubidium>"the 32bpp full zoom graphics don't work"
15:28<@Rubidium>or
15:28<mjk>Rubidium: :-)
15:28<@Rubidium>"the 32bpp non-full zoom graphics don't work with the dos base graphics set"
15:29<@Rubidium>or
15:29<mjk>Rubidium: In this case, I already know the reason for the bug (it's trivial once you find out), and I would supply a "patch" for it.
15:29<@Rubidium>"the readme of the 32bpp graphics is totally crappy"
15:29<yorick>"help i download this file and then i put it in and now its not working"
15:29<mjk>Rubidium: :-) The path stored in opengfx...zip is wrong. It's "data/opengfx1_base/..." instead of "sprites/opengfx1_base/...". Something like that.
15:29<mjk>8-))
15:30<@Rubidium>oh, then it doesn't belong to our bug tracker anyhow
15:30<mjk>Rubidium: It was for the BTS frosch123 gave me ...
15:31<Ammler>well, it is for the tracker you get the pack from
15:31<Ammler>if you downloaded from tt-forums, you should also report there
15:31<mjk>My bug reports are more like these: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=384365 and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=387278
15:31<PeterT>http://users.tt-forums.net/petert/files/ottd-pr0n.png
15:32<mjk>*snicker*
15:32<+glx>PeterT: not really
15:33<+glx>but town names are nice
15:34<PeterT>lol :-)
15:35<mjk>planetmaker: Although I use only throw-away mail addresses for web-based BTSes, I do track the bug report a while (up to 1 or 2 weeks) and answer questions from the developer.
15:36<planetmaker>current spam filters are not that bad. Even my most exposed e-mail addresses have an acceptable ratio after filtering
15:37<mjk>planetmaker: Yes, but I'm a litte too paranoid regarding false positives ... and it's more work perusing your spam folder for false positives than deleting spam from your inbox.
15:38<mjk>Social problems cannot be solved by means of technology ...
15:38<planetmaker>mjk, I'm not telling that you should use your primary address there... I don't either
15:38<frosch123>most spam i get are the notifications from bugs.openttd.org :p
15:38<mjk>In my next section of life, I might try to produce world peace. :-}
15:38<mjk>frosch123: :-)
15:39<mjk>planetmaker: Actually, I can have as many addresses as I want ... just the interface to creating new mail addresses is ... lame. :-/
15:39*yorick sighs at mjk
15:39<mjk>yorick: :-}
15:40<yorick>privacy is a huge crime
15:40<yorick>and you should be punished
15:40<mjk>yorick: :-)
15:40<yorick>(-:
15:40<mjk>yorick: Yes, #debian.de on Freenode doesn't like real-name-deniers ...
15:41<yorick>ew de
15:41<mjk>When I was younger, I also demanded real names on the net from everyone.
15:41<yorick>at least you have mine
15:41<mjk>But well ... I've grown older ... (not necessarily "up" ;-)
15:41<yorick>older as in...you're 12 now :P
15:41<mjk>yorick: |-))
15:42<yorick>no?
15:42<frosch123>mjk is 12 times as old as yorick
15:42<yorick>he's be 180!
15:42<mjk>yorick: Interestingly enough, "children" are actually adult from an development-psychiatric(?) point of view. Except when their parents etc. treat them like kids, then they actually can even develop back for a while. :-(
15:42<yorick>d*
15:43<mjk>yorick: Wow ... you're an adult! :-)
15:43<mjk>yorick: (At least in theory ;-)
15:45<Nite_Owl>parents will always treat their children as kids even when you ram your wheelchair into theirs
15:49-!-yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
15:49<mjk>Nite_Owl: *lol* 8-))
15:50<mjk>Nite_Owl: This is very nice ... I'll quote that somewhere if you permit. :-)
15:50<Nite_Owl>be my guest
15:50<mjk>thx =)
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16:14<SpComb^>http://qmsk.net/~terom/stuff/s2c8_end.png <-- humiliating... ran completely out of stone :)
16:18-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:20<peter1138>that is not openttd :s
16:20<PeterT>SpComb^: http://users.tt-forums.net/petert/files/ottd-pr0n.png
16:20<mjk>Looks more like Settlers ...
16:20<frosch123>it looks like settlers 2 campaign 8
16:20<mjk>Wasn't there talk about a settlers clone? Like OpenSettlers, sotosay ...
16:21<frosch123>you mean widelands?
16:21<mjk>Ah, no, ... wait ...
16:22<mjk>http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3142
16:22*SpComb^
16:23<mjk>SpComb^ called that Settlers2.5 or so =)
16:24<Ammler>http://www.siedler25.org/ (Return to the roots)
16:24<SpComb^>http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~flosoft/s25rttr/trunk/files/head%3A/
16:24<SpComb^>^ the interesting bits
16:24<SpComb^>they're not very good at GPL
16:25<Ammler>s2tng might have made a blockage?
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16:25<frosch123>http://wl.widelands.org/ <- just in case noone knows :)
16:25<aber>this stuff is heavy
16:26<peter1138>447MB :s
16:34<@Belugas>customer service... how fun...
16:35<__ln__>what kind of "quotes" is one supposed to use in german?
16:35<_newage_>SpComb^ I'm hearing you
16:35<_newage_>:-X
16:35-!-ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke]
16:35<mjk>__ln__: lower quote, upper quote ... or do you mean the quote chars? single/double/french/...
16:36<__ln__>mjk: are »these« sometimes used?
16:36<mjk>__ln__: Yes.
16:37<mjk>__ln__: Those are called French Quotes (I guess) or "Guillemets"
16:37<__ln__>french → bad? :)
16:37<__ln__>but thanks
16:37<mjk>__ln__: Otherwise, we use <lowerquote>blah<upperquote>, either single or double, depending on the nesting.
16:38<mjk>__ln__: :-) No, French quotes are absolutely okay.
16:38<aber>any french people here?
16:38<mjk>__ln__: Oh, and in Germany or Austria, it's >>blah<<, while in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, it's <<blah>> (direction reversed)
16:39-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-255-117.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
16:39<mjk>__ln__: If you can read German: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A4nsef%C3%BC%C3%9Fchen#Typografische_Anf.C3.BChrungszeichen
16:40<mjk>(Thank $DEITY, umlauts are URL-encoded =)
16:41<aber>with the "Left Double Quotation Mark" used in the right side?
16:41<__ln__>mjk: ja, ich kann deutsch lesen, und habe gefragt weil ich es jetzt auch schreiben versuche. :)
16:42<mjk>__ln__: :-)
16:42<mjk>aber: No, they're asymmetrical. Lower quote left, upper quote right.
16:43<aber>mjk: The upper quote shown is the "Left Double Quotation Mark"
16:43<mjk>aber: Where? In the German Wikipedia article?
16:44<mjk>aber: The first two "pictures" (next to "Im Deutschen") show the quotes available only on typewriters.
16:44<aber>mjk:
16:44<aber>ups
16:44<mjk>aber: German typewriters (at least older / mechanical ones) have only the upper quotes.
16:45<aber>its like „“, but it could be „” or „‟
16:46<mjk>aber: Hmm ... your last sentence contains ,," three times. :-}
16:46<mjk>aber: Post a screenshot somewhere =)
16:46<mjk>aber: Imageshack or something ...
16:48<mjk>Ah, I see that there's another form of single quotes: two upper single quotes, where the left quote is at the same height of the right quote, but upside-down.
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16:50<mjk>Aaaah, now I remember ... yeah, these "same height, but upside-down"-quote pairs are simply English quotes. :-))
16:50<mjk>Jeez ...
16:50-!-Wintersoldier [~davidclam@c-24-5-19-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:50<mjk>So the image on Wikipedia seems to be actually wrong.
16:51<mjk>HA! Here's a table that shows everything: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A4nsef%C3%BC%C3%9Fchen#Andere_Sprachen
16:52<mjk>Hihi, Japanese quotes are funny ...
16:55<aber>I have never quoted the right way. dammit.
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17:03<@Belugas>and it's time to wave good night!!!!
17:03<@Belugas>YOU HOU!!!!
17:03<@Belugas>bye
17:04<@Rubidium>night oh white whale
17:04-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
17:05<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
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17:11<PeterT>Oh, voting over :-(
17:11<PeterT>by eleven minutes
17:13<dih>ping Yexo :-)
17:13<Yexo>hello dih
17:13<dih>how is you sir?
17:13<Yexo>very good, thank you
17:13<Yexo>but I haven't done anything on your request :p
17:14<PeterT>request?
17:14<dih>did not expect so ;-)
17:14<dih>just wanted to ping and say hi
17:14<Yexo>ok :)
17:14<Terkhen>good night
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause><SpComb^> darn, you can't transport boats between islands in S2 :o <-- what? that worked in S2TNG
17:17<SpComb^>dunno, tired to build a sea-route between two islands, but it never got a boat
17:17<SpComb^>there were only a couple in the HQ, a separate continent from these two islands
17:18<dih>night night :-)
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17:51<zachanima>when did this place become #settlers?
17:51<zachanima>=D
17:51<FauxFaux><3 settlers 2 forever.
17:51<PeterT>zachanima: #not-openttd, rather
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>it's my fault!
17:52<zachanima>it's a good game, yes
17:52<zachanima>and so is *gasp* openttd
17:52<zachanima>Eddi|zuHause, oh?
17:52<__ln__>i've never played any
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>i talked so much about s2 that i got SpComb^ addicted...
17:53<zachanima>heh
17:53<zachanima>well it happens I guess
17:55<zachanima>bah
17:55<zachanima>perfecting this heightmap has taken all day
17:55<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: pfft, I'd dug it up before you did, but I did only started doing the roman campaign after you mentioned it
17:55<@Rubidium>and now your image editor crashed and while doing so trashed the backups too?
17:56<zachanima>Rubidium, not yet
17:56<zachanima>I'm about 90% done - I expect that to happen at or around 98%
17:59<_newage_>yeah I'm waitin for Settlers 2.5 rttr & theme hospital (CorsixTH) to be fully playable on windows and linux, it's my favorite game
17:59<_newage_>both
18:01<zachanima>I had a look around about a year ago, looking for open sourced theme hospitals
18:01<zachanima>yet I didn't hit CorsixTH
18:01<_newage_>http://code.google.com/p/corsix-th/
18:01<@Rubidium>that didn't really exist back then
18:01<_newage_>I repost bugs, I try at least
18:01-!-Sasakura [~e@host86-148-153-110.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:02<_newage_>~report
18:02<zachanima>Rubidium, well that explains it
18:02<Sasakura>ive noticed that when running two different versions of ottd that both want to use the same active set of newgrfs, which gives errors when opening the exe if those are not present
18:02<zachanima>_newage_, looks interesting
18:02<zachanima>and google gave me the google code project
18:02-!-aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:04<_newage_>any way they use too much lua code
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>Sasakura: you can make the grfs available to all versions, by putting them in My Documents\OpenTTD (or ~/.openttd on linux)
18:05<Sasakura>Eddi|zuHause: ok, but i normally have this problem when trying out different versions
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>Sasakura: you can also avoid sharing the config file by creating a new openttd.cfg before running for the first time
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18:14<Sasakura>i'm sure i have this happen regularly, not just on the first instance
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18:17<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should read the readme to get some insight about what's going on
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely certain you understood my solutions...
18:18<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: reading a readme? Isn't that like reading a manual? Or reading a TOS/EULA before agreeing to it?
18:19<Sasakura>the first solution wouldnt work for me
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18:22*Rubidium likes the PS/3 leap year bug :)
18:23*Rubidium wonders whether it has to do something with the Y2010 bug
18:23<Sasakura>Eddi|zuHause: i dont see how to create a pair of openttd.cfg to avoid this issue
18:23<zachanima>wait
18:24<zachanima>top right is usually north, right?
18:24<PeterT>yes
18:25<@Rubidium>in OpenTTD's code north is ^
18:25<zachanima>so top right would be north-east?
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18:26<PeterT>Rubidium: So, what are the results of the competition?
18:26<@Rubidium>if I'm not mixing left and right up (as I quite often do), yes
18:26<PeterT>Also, is there a way to keep the old one? Perhaps by placing an opntitle.dat in the global data folder?
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18:31<SpComb^>Rubidium: first even-year'd, non-leap feb for the PS3's release lifetime
18:32<SpComb^>but somehow, I doubt it's as simple as someone typoing `year % 4` for `year % 2` :(
18:34<zachanima>hmm
18:34<@Rubidium>SpComb^: that's why I suspect the Y2010 bug, i.e. 2*4096 + 0*256 + 1*16 + 0*1
18:35-!-jpx [jpx_@e83-245-150-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:36<@Rubidium>then doing a % 4 would result in the shown behaviour
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause>BCD date? who in his right mind uses that?
18:47<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: german banks? :)
18:50<zachanima>1:10 ratio of real-life to in-game population seems to work well for a 2048x2048 Denmark
18:50<zachanima>so there
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have such a chip card yet, so i didn't look into the specifics of the bug...
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>zachanima: remember to use the real-life population of the 19th century instead of current population...
18:51<zachanima>not if I set the scenario at 2010
18:52<zachanima>which is kind of what I intended - so as to recreate some of the more recent developments of the network
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>imho it's bad to make the initial city size too large...
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>you can't place stations properly...
18:53<zachanima>Eddi|zuHause, indeed. Danish cities rarely have more than 200,000 inhabitants (sp?) though
18:54<zachanima>which works out nicely as 20,000 in-game
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18:54<zachanima>Copenhagen being the obvious exception
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if that's a newgrf issue, but in the USA map using NACS, New York starts with ~11k inhabitants and covers a huge area
18:56<zachanima>hmm. I made a 100k Copenhagen and, while it did take up quite a lot of space, I think that could probably be halved by making sure it develops mostly skyscrapers (those DO have more people/tile, right?)
18:56<Chrill>they do indeed
18:56<zachanima>how big is the USA map?
18:57<zachanima>Chrill, thanks
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18:57<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's 2048^2
18:58<zachanima>hmm
18:58<zachanima>well 20k was not at all big when I just did it
18:59<zachanima>with enough bribes and trees, is it possible to clear an arbitrary amount of houses?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i dislike that...
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>imho, local authorities should disallow clearing trees if the rating is too low
19:01<zachanima>well I am just talking about clearing houses now
19:01<zachanima>and planting trees/bribing to that end
19:03<zachanima>in short, I just wanted to know whether I ought to make a bit of space for the stations in the scenario, or let that be handled at playtime
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19:09<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause needs a bouncer
19:09<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: Do you want one? You can get a free one at rdlBNC.com
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>i need a connection that is not immediately congested by one single download...
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19:10<Eddi|zuHause>also, that was just the regular 24h disconnect, i'm not sure why i'd need a bouncer for that...
19:24<SpComb^>"free bouncer" ...
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19:26<PeterT>It is free
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>tanstaafb?
19:30-!-mirQus_ is now known as mirQus
19:36<__ln__>... as a free bjarni?
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>that, too ;)
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19300 /branches/1.0/ (8 files in 4 dirs):
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Return the TTD airport type in station var 0xF1 (r19299)
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Segfault when station vars 0xF2/0xF3 is accessed when there is no truck/bus stop (r19298)
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Some methods of AIAbstractList left invalid iterators [FS#3566] (r19293)
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [YAPP] If reversing at path signals was disabled, a train would not reverse when hitting the back of an one-way signal (r19286)
19:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Update: Intro game
19:38<PeterT>Intro game?
19:39*PeterT goes to the forums, and is glad it isn't 8:00 PM
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>you mean 2AM
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which, when is the switch to summer time again?
19:40<@Rubidium>good question
19:40<PeterT>sc79 won :S
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>which of the last three is that?
19:40<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: TZ="CET-1CEST,M3.5.0,M10.5.0/3 <- that says when
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i can't read that...
19:42<+glx>last weekend of march IIRC
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>i once though it should be the first weekend in spring (after 21st march) and the first weekend in fall (after 23rd september)
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>but i think that is not entirely accurate
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19:45<@Rubidium>definitely, cause it's late october (at least, that's what I can remember)
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19:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's different in america
19:46<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, every year
19:46<@Rubidium>except in like Arizona or so
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, except in one native territory within arizona
19:47<__ln__>just think about the effect that daylight saving time has on the amount of sunlight trees and other plants get in the US.
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>except in one other native territory within that native territorry
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: yeah, we could totally fight global warming if we had one hour less sunshine during the summer!
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21:25<ccfreak2k>_ZZN28CYapfSegmentCostCacheGlobalTI16CYapfRail_TypesTI21CYapfAnySafeTileRail113CFollowTrackTIL13TransportType0ELb1ELb1EE20CNodeList_HashTableTI14CYapfRailNodeTI20CYapfNodeKeyTrackDirELi12ELi16EE32CYapfDestinationAnySafeTileRailT27CYapfFollowAnySafeTileRailTEE16stGetGlobalCacheEvE24last_rail_change_counter
21:25<ccfreak2k>That is one hell of a function name.
21:25<PeterT_>Long code is long.
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22:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r19301 /trunk/src/pathfinder/follow_track.hpp: -Feature: [YAPF] Consider the railtype imposed speed limit for pathfinding.
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23:44<nicfer>hmmm, will be possible with new rail types function to create a hybrid track system?
23:44<nicfer>that means for example, monorail and normal railroad in the same track
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 02 00:00:38 2010