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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-03

---Logopened Wed Mar 03 00:00:40 2010
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03:39<TrueBrain>**BUUURRRPPP**
03:41<pw->any freebsd users?
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03:41<TrueBrain>you want general FreeBSD help? Then you are at the wrong channel. Otherwise, just say what your problem/question is :)
03:50<@Rubidium>so... guess it was not OpenTTD related
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04:10<TrueBrain>one can only guess ;)
04:11<peter1138>no, it was a simple question
04:11<peter1138>"any freebsd users?"
04:11<peter1138>"yes" -- there are some, believe it or not
04:11<dih>\o/ apache segfaults with php 5.2.5 + xcache!
04:11<dih>fuck
04:11<dih>hello TrueBrain ;-)
04:11<peter1138>php--
04:12<TrueBrain>apache--
04:12<dih>well - i can hardly tell the company to move to another language
04:12<dih>i would not mind... but!!
04:16<TrueBrain>I AM SO THIRSTY!
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04:19<peter1138>hello hackykid
04:20<Hackykid>hi peter1138
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04:41*peter1138 wonders how close to freeze squeeze is
04:44<peter1138>there's a nasty unfixed bug in gnome-vfs in lenny related to smb
04:44<dih>a squeeze freeze? :P
04:44<Noldo>:)
04:45<Noldo>http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
04:45<Noldo>I read that one of those lines needs to drop under some magical mark before freeze
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04:56<@Rubidium>peter1138: last message was something like "although we earlier March, the number of RC bugs (Noldo's list) has to be less than that magic number and we don't expect that to happen in March"
04:59<@Rubidium>peter1138: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/02/msg00002.html (magic mark = 300)
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05:29<Orbiter><-- openttd noob here.. Why can't I see my downloaded scenarios when starting a multiplayer game?
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05:55<fjb>[09:41:11] <pw-> any freebsd users? <- Yes, ofcourse.
05:55<fjb>Oh, some seconds...
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06:04<Terkhen>hello
06:13<PeterT>Good morning, Terkhen
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07:40<SpComb^>peter1138 is inactive
07:43<peter1138>i am?
07:43<SpComb^>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=861242#p861242
07:44<Noldo>:)
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: i believe he meant celestar
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07:54<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: celestar did the map array stuff?
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07:57<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: that topic is custom bridgeheads
07:57<SpComb^>newmap was just ancilliary
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08:04<Ammler>iirc, custom bridgeheads got "broken" with bridges over a lot of things
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: no, custom bridgeheads was after that...
08:06<ccfreak2k>Video killed the custombridgeheads star.
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08:09<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause's revising history :)
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08:10<Eddi|zuHause>history is what i say it is!
08:12<peter1138>ammler is right, although it was stopped way before that
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08:14<peter1138>ahh
08:14<peter1138>Joined: 2007-01-17 00:14:58
08:14<peter1138>you're talking about the wrong custombridgeheads patch :p
08:15<Ammler>I had the branch in mind...
08:16<Ammler>support for rail only, iirc
08:18<peter1138>the original patch i wrote supported road and rail
08:18<peter1138>5 years ago, hurr
08:19<@Rubidium>yeah, an ancient patch... so you must be an ancient! :)
08:19<peter1138>i'm inactive :D
08:20<@Rubidium>says who?
08:20<peter1138>that guy
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08:38<Eddi|zuHause>ah, there are two different patches...
08:40<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=861255#p861255 <- already said so!
08:40<@Rubidium>and correctly basically his completely incorrect post
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>the main problem with the cbh branch was that trains on a bridge did not stop for a signal on the bridge head
08:44<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: actually, I think trains falling apart is the bigger problem; the signal issue can be temporarily 'solved' by not allowing signals
08:44<@Rubidium>not allowing signals = not adding a feature, not allowing to turn around = breaking a feature
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember a trains falling apart problem with bridge heads
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>at least if one existed, it would be solvable
08:47<@Rubidium>bah, no thread about cbh
08:51-!-Orbiter [~Orbiter@ti0117a380-3360.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:52<@Rubidium>as in Celestar's cbh attempt
08:52<Priski>why anyone does even bother translate anything if it just some main buttons on website
08:53<Priski>it is annoying to browse that redmine project manager software
08:54<@Rubidium>Priski: I think you're talking to the wrong channel
08:55<Priski>yeah but I meant that in larger respect
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: there might be random chat discussion around 4 Jan 2007
08:56<Priski>I mean, is that even helpful to anyone when site contents is always english but titles are on native language where are you browsing
08:57<@Rubidium>Priski: I guess it isn't
08:57<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: don't have those logs (anymore)
08:57<Priski>and it isn't first time I encounter this
08:58<Priski>and usually there is no way to turn it off
08:58<@Rubidium>just tell your browser to tell servers that it wants English
08:58<@Rubidium>as I've never had problems with it (yet)
08:59<Priski>When did this feature come into browsers :D
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>about 15 years ago...
08:59<Priski>totally missed it
09:00<Priski>I have been living in cave apparently
09:00<Priski>ahh.. this is now so much better ~~
09:03<@Rubidium>http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1945.txt says 1996 it's offical; the protocol has been, according to the text, in use sing 1990
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09:05<@Rubidium>so yes, Eddi|zuHause's 15 years seems a quite reasonable estimate
09:08<Priski>I'm pretty sure nobody did use that feature for years though
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09:10<Priski>until someone "hey, I just found this great thing from granddaddy's old chest"
09:12<Ammler>afaik, you can "overrule" it with user settings
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09:22<@Belugas>helloooo
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10:56*Belugas mumbles obscenities while looking at his pinpad
10:59<planetmaker>better than looking obscene while mumbling at the pinpad ;-)
10:59<planetmaker>hello :-)
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11:14<@Belugas>planetmaker, you are totally right
11:14-!-ptr_ [~peter@dhcp-161-113.dsv.su.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:14<@Belugas>but either way, it does not solve anything, sadly
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11:16<planetmaker>he... :S
11:31<peter1138>manquinista, eh?
11:37<@Belugas>mmh?
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11:38<planetmaker>is late
11:39<peter1138>belugas, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=861261#p861261
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11:43<@Belugas>heheh
11:46<frosch123>"it's a matter of not making additional examples of an existing problem."
11:46<frosch123>( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=847640#p847640 )
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11:52<@Belugas>mmh... soubnds like... we have a problem, and it musst be fixed by devs, not us
11:54*Belugas shakes his keyboard
11:54<Priski>too many accounts in too many sites is an issue
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11:55<Priski>gotta have some sort of accountmanager for all the sites
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12:23<__ln__>http://www.thelocal.se/25330/20100303/
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12:43<dih>helloses
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12:45<Eddi|zuHause>you meant "heillos"
12:45<Quibus>hi
12:45<Quibus>I heard there is someone working on a music set for OpenTTD, called OpenMSX
12:45-!-Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-122.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:45<planetmaker>yes, Quibus
12:45<Quibus>Is there someone here involved in that?
12:46<planetmaker>yes, Quibus
12:46<Quibus>OK, the thing is, our open source project is already named "openMSX"...
12:46<Quibus>Maybe it's a good idea to pick a different name?
12:46<Quibus>http://openmsx.sourceforge.net/
12:46<planetmaker>Do you really think that there's a problem?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood why it must have an X in its name...
12:47<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, consistency with OpenGFX and OpenSFX
12:47<planetmaker>graphiX, SoundEffeX and MusiX ;-)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but IMHO it's silly ;)
12:48<planetmaker>many things are silly ;-) Especially names
12:49<planetmaker>Quibus, I wasn't aware of "your" openmsx when I chose the name
12:49<planetmaker>On the other hand I don't see really any conflict. OpenMSX in the OpenTTD context is only an extension not usable elsewhere
12:49<dih>erm - openMSX last new post was over 6 months ago
12:49<Priski>That site misses one point, it does not clearly say whatta hell openMSX is... :P
12:50<dih>*news
12:50<planetmaker>It does tell in the documentation...
12:51-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.20.110] has quit []
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>as long as neither of you registers a trademark, there should be no reason to change anything
12:51<Priski>well yes, and there is that "mxs emulator" on there
12:52<dih>http://www.ohloh.net/p/openmsx/analyses/latest <- interesting
12:52<dih>you have tcl in there?
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12:54<planetmaker>Quibus, honest question: is there a problem with one music plugin for OpenTTD being called OpenMSX?
12:54-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B756FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:57<dih>looks like Quibus is doing other more important stuff :-P
12:57<planetmaker>yeah
12:57<@Rubidium>it's going to be called openttd-openmsx in Debian anyway, so it won't conflict there
12:57<planetmaker>makes sense :-)
12:57<@Rubidium>in Fedora I extrapolate the same name will be used (openttd-opengfx is used there)
12:58-!-Vampier [~Vampier@cpe-76-172-138-204.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
12:58<Quibus>planetmaker: well, it is just confusing if you Google on it or have Google alerts on it
12:58<Quibus>(sorry, I had to do some Real Life stuff here)
12:58<dih>comparing download numbers ..........
12:58<dih>:-P
12:58<Quibus>planetmaker: I understand you weren't aware of our openMSX name
12:59<Quibus>dih: we don't often post news there, but the project is very active, see the SF.net page
12:59<Quibus>(or visit #openMSX on FreeNode)
12:59<Vampier>or http://webchat.freenode.net
12:59*Rubidium dislikes freenode
12:59<Quibus>dih: yes, it embeds Tcl
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13:01<OwenS>OperatorMul <blah> [with TL = long int, TR = VMFunction*]: Assertion `!"Not currently doing casts"' failed. <-- Thats an error I'd expect if I was trying to multiply a function by an int. I'm not >_<
13:01<Quibus>planetmaker: anyway, to avoid confusion with Google or package search or similar stuff, it would be better to not have such similar names. OTOH: I can't (and won't try) to force you of course :-) It's just that we prefer to not have the confusion, if that's OK with you
13:02<dih>your openmsx project fills the first result page on google - i doubt you will run into issues soon
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13:02<Quibus>dih: my Google Alert found yours :-)
13:03<Quibus>So, now I will be getting Google Alerts about the OpenTTD OpenMSX :P
13:03<@Rubidium>"openttd-openmsx" as official name?
13:03<dih>i am on page 3....
13:03<Vampier>it's a friendly request :)
13:03<planetmaker>I'll think about it. But honestly I'm not fond of changing the name. Except to what Rubidium proposes.
13:03*Vampier calls lawyer :P
13:03*Vampier grins :P
13:03<Quibus>planetmaker: well, thanks for thinking about it :-)
13:04<@Rubidium>hahah... lawyers...
13:04<dih>page 5 - first hit.... in de.pastebin.ca......
13:04<Vampier>I played TTD a few times :) it's cool
13:04<dih>Vampier, you are cute
13:04<Vampier>lol
13:04<dih>lawyer ...
13:04<Quibus>dih: I think that's the one who was found by Google Alert as well
13:04<Vampier>I'm not sure too take that as a compliment
13:04<dih>no - you should not :-P
13:04<Vampier>hahaha
13:04<Quibus>dih: don't mind Vampier - he's a mad Dutchmen who moved to the USA and now got some attitude :P
13:05*Quibus slaps Vampier around a bit with a 500lbs C++ manual
13:05<Vampier>quibus is the stiffest in the openMSX team
13:05<dih>nah - i am not serious Vampier
13:05<dih>but yeah - laywer? seriously!!
13:05<@Rubidium>yeah, all Dutch people are mad
13:05<Vampier>I'm more what you would call 'the village idiot who does prototyping'
13:05<Quibus>Rubidium: exactly
13:05<Vampier>dih: I was clearly joking
13:06<Vampier>Remco Bijker... that's 2x Dutch :P
13:06<dih>it would have made me laugh even more if you were not :-D
13:06<Quibus>OTOH: Dutch folks of over 25 should definitely know what MSX is :-)
13:06*planetmaker doesn't know (but I'm not Dutch)
13:07<planetmaker>And honestly, visiting your web page doesn't give an easy clue either ;-)
13:07*Rubidium doesn't know either
13:07<Vampier>Well Germany had them too
13:07<Quibus>Vampier: very few
13:07<Vampier>but it wasn't as wide spread
13:07<dih>planetmaker, look at the screenshots :-D
13:07<planetmaker>Vampier, doesn't make it better :-P
13:07<@Rubidium>Vampier: if you copy a name, copy it correctly
13:07<OwenS>planetmaker: Emulator for an 8-bit console. Perhaps most notable for having the first Metal Gears :p
13:07<Vampier>das habbe ich schon gedacht
13:07<Quibus>OwenS: you score points!
13:07<Vampier>OwenS: the original metal gears ;)
13:08<Ammler>in suse, the only openmsx is openttd openmsx
13:08<Vampier>Snake's revenge wasn't an official metal gear... and doesn't fit any timeline
13:09<OwenS>I need to get a PS2 some time, so I can get Snake Eater and play the originals (Well, and 2 & 3). There was a disadvantage to having an Xbox...
13:09<Vampier>http://www.youtube.com/watch?playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=YwOTrrM5quI&v=_Leh-icn9l4
13:09<Vampier>here is a video of the whole game
13:09<Vampier>I need to re-record that one
13:09<Vampier>it's not in HD jet
13:09<dih>besides - even if openMSX were renamed to openttd-openmsx, changing how it's refered to in the forums will hardly happen
13:09<dih>and google will also hit that sooner or later
13:09<OwenS>And yay! My interpreter just interpreted it's first program ^^
13:09<dih>oh - and blogs, youtube, irc,....
13:10<Vampier>followed by debian/ubuntu etc etc
13:10<Quibus>dih: at least the problem will not grow bigger if it is
13:11<Quibus>(renamed)
13:11<OwenS>(It's amazing how good it feels to execute even something as simple as "def x(a, b) return a * b; return x(4, 2); " :P)
13:11<dih>there IS no problem!
13:11<Quibus>When was the OpenTTD one started?
13:11<Vampier>quibus: request is done :P
13:11<@Rubidium>or call it openmfx
13:11<Vampier>mfx .... that sounds bad
13:11<Quibus>Vampier: no, sounds good :-)
13:11<Vampier>motherf-ers or something
13:12<planetmaker>nor does OpenMUX work
13:12<OwenS>planetmaker: OpenMusx? :p
13:12<Vampier>openMUS?
13:12<@Rubidium>yeah, it sounds bad... bit open[gms]fx!
13:12<Quibus>OpenMZX?
13:12<dih>OpenTTD_MSX :-D
13:12<planetmaker>not openMUS. Sounds aweful
13:12<Vampier>dih: you can blame us :P
13:12<dih>blame you for what?
13:12<planetmaker>You know German, therefor you know how it sounds
13:12<Vampier>openFinch :P
13:12<OwenS>Musx actually sounds like Music as well :p
13:13<dih>uh - i have an idea... openmsx :-P
13:13<Vampier>hahaha
13:13<Vampier>why not call it closedMSX
13:13<Vampier>no-one uses that name anyway
13:14<Quibus>hehehe
13:14<planetmaker>Vampier, you're free to use that name
13:14<Priski>:D
13:14<Vampier>funny planetmaker
13:14<dih>why on earth do people who write GPL'd software, believe they have a right to an exclusive name??
13:14<planetmaker>as funny as you...
13:14<dih>esp if it's totally unrelated
13:14<OwenS>dih: It was just a polite request
13:14<dih>i know
13:15<Ammler>maybe we should call it "coca cola"
13:15<Priski>dih: actually that is a good point, maybe to avoid confusion?
13:15<OwenS>Much bigger projects (Phoenix*cough*Firebird*cough*Firefox) have renamed themselves to avoid it :p
13:15<dih>and after a few polite answers from planetmaker: i'll think about it <- iirc
13:15-!-Bergee [~bergee@c-98-250-52-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
13:15<planetmaker>anyway... we can think about that. And now have a good evening, I need to leave for tonight :-)
13:15<Quibus>yep, so thanks! :) In case of any questions/discussion/whatever, feel free to join #openMSX on FreeNode.
13:16<Quibus>see you
13:16*dih waves
13:16<dih>^ better than air waves
13:16<Quibus>planetmaker: OK, I'm out of here as well, bye! :) Nice talking to fellow openMSXers :-)
13:16*Vampier tsunami-s
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13:16<Vampier>but sticks around
13:17<Vampier>I really like the idea that openTTD used TcL
13:17<@Rubidium>huh? it did?
13:17<dih>what?
13:18<blathijs>Isn't that the autopilot thing?
13:18<dih>yes, but that aint an OpenTTD thing
13:18<@Rubidium>kewl... that must be someone else using it's name too
13:18<__ln__>*its
13:18<Priski>just out of intrest, why #openttd in OFTC not Freenode?
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>because a majority of devs voted that freenode is shit
13:19<OwenS>Admittedly it's less shit now :p
13:19<__ln__>Priski: because of lilo-spam
13:19<Vampier>lilo is dead
13:19<Priski>lilo spam?
13:19<Vampier>already 3_ years
13:19<Vampier>:(
13:19<dih>and the hassle to move back is too big :-P
13:19<dih>hehe
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>Vampier: yes, that was a short time after we left :p
13:19<dih>most openttd related stuff is here
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>there were also frequent netsplits
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>and one of our devs was banned for no reason
13:20<Priski>no reason?
13:20<Ammler>freenode has still no ssl support
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, unless "it's Bjarni" is a reason :)
13:21<dih>HAHA - hit the right guy :-P
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i thought they introduced that recently
13:21<frosch123>bjarni is banned from freenode? maybe we should move there :p
13:21<@Rubidium>and not to mention the dozens of times I was kicked for 'flooding' in the middle of the night while sleeping
13:22<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: indeed, I can remember the discussion about moving opensuse because of that...
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm... what do i do with a folder called "install" containing 100GB worth of windows programs?
13:23<Vampier>I forgot I have to have the original graphics :) are there any 'replacement' graphic packs?
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13:24<dih>Vampier, guess ;-)
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>Vampier: yes, if you use the 1.0.0 installer, it will offer to install those
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13:27<Vampier>dih: I really should read better.... it's right on the download page :) (thanks Eddi|zuHause I've download RC1)
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13:28<Eddi|zuHause>now that we have a title game, isn't it time for RC2?
13:29<Priski>we do?
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, vote was closed earlier this week, and it has been committed
13:29<Priski>yay
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13:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's in the 1.0 branch
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13:31<Priski>not on the nightlies it seems
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's specific to 1.0
13:32<Priski>:P
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause>hm... interesting... i just found a copy of transport tycoon (not entirely sure which one)...
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>with several savegames...
13:43-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host21-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:43<Wolf01>hello
13:43-!-Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm... feature request: if you click on the directory name in the save/load window, it should allow you to enter a path
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19305 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 changes by burgerd
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: malay - 1 changes by Kwokfu
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: serbian - 27 changes by etran
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: thai - 7 changes by decoze
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13:54<Eddi|zuHause>i don't suppose i have any use for a "j2sdk-1_4_1_01-windows-i586.exe"
13:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19306 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.h): -Change: Railtype cost factor from byte to word value
14:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19307 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.h smallmap_gui.cpp table/railtypes.h): -Add: Let railtypes specify their own smallmap colour. No legend support yet.
14:08<Prof_Frink>peter1138: Footrest?
14:09<peter1138>quite
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14:46<Zuu>Coding style: "own members of classes should always be referenced using "this->" "
14:46<Zuu>Does this include static class members?
14:46-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dba95ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
14:46<Zuu>Or shall I rather use ClassName::static_member_var?
14:47<@Rubidium>the latter
14:47<peter1138>you can't use this with static class members, heh
14:47<Zuu>I though so, but couldn't find any confirmation for the later in the wiki.
14:47*OwenS prefers his prefixing with m_/ms_
14:47<Zuu>peter1138: Tell MSVC that :-)
14:48<Zuu>OwenS: Sure, that is what I do myself (excluding the underscore), but OpenTTD wouldn't be happy if I sticked to my coding style.
14:48<OwenS>Zuu: I understand that :-)
14:49<OwenS>I doubt they'd be fan of my CamelCase enumeration values :p
14:49<OwenS>(Blame Qt for that one :P )
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14:50<peter1138>qt :(
14:50<frosch123>as long as you do not prefix pointers and references with p and r
14:51<OwenS>No I don't. My sentiment is that hungarian notation should be used to carry only semantics that the type system can't
14:51<Zuu>frosch123: That I do aswell :-)
14:52<OwenS>peter1138: Whats wrong with Qt?
14:52<Zuu>OwenS: It requires a preprocessor?
14:53<OwenS>Zuu: That adds features you can't have without. Besides, your build system shoul abstract that away from you ;-)
14:53<peter1138>reinventing the wheel syndrome
14:53<Zuu>Makes it hard to use with Visual Studio unless you are rich.
14:53<peter1138>preprocessor crap
14:53<OwenS>Zuu: Huh? CMake can generate SLN's for free :-)
14:53<OwenS>peter1138: If you're talking about QList & co, thats because they are required to support platforms with useless STLs
14:53<Zuu>Last time I tried it was not possible to use the Express edition of visual studio with Qt.
14:54<OwenS>Zuu: No reason you can't. It's a bog standard C++ library
14:54<Zuu>Well the problem was related to the preprocessor.
14:54<OwenS>Strange, as both CMake and QMake can generate Visual Studio projects which work in express fine
14:55<Zuu>Okay, that they didn't tell in the readme/howto that I read then. :-)
14:55<OwenS>peter1138: As for preprocessor crap, QMetaType is something I find incredibly useful, and is impossible without a preprocessor
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14:56<Zuu>I've been looking at migrating to wxwidgets but hasn't got around to do that yet. (currently I'm using a self-written window manager)
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14:57<OwenS>Ugh. wxWidgets is a horirble mess of macros
14:58<OwenS>I'd even use GTK+ from C preferentially to wxWidgets; it's that horrid that I'd choose a widget set which doesn't intergrate anywhere
14:58<Zuu>hmm, a plus with GTK+ from my point of view is that they use sigc++ which I already hevily rely on. :-)
14:59<OwenS>Zuu: Yes, but GTK behaves like GTK everywhere. You can always tell you're using a GTK app
14:59<OwenS>Qt and wxWidgets tend to behave natively (wx less so, as the Linux version backs onto GTK)
14:59<Zuu>Well, people can tell everywhere that I use a homemade window system currently so not a big change.
14:59<frosch123>except you never know whether the g refers to gnu, gimp or gnome
15:00<OwenS>Gtkmm's API isn't that bad, but I still prefer Qt's
15:00<peter1138>qt's preprocessor crap is, of course, just another form of "a horrible mess of macros"
15:00<Zuu>I tried Gtkmm about 4-5 years ago with a project but had to cancel it because it made compilation time sky rocket.
15:01<OwenS>peter1138: The horrible mess of macros I'm talking about is WX' WX_DECLARE_VECTOR(Type, VectorName). Thats right - they reinvented macros using the preprocessor!
15:01<peter1138>gtk looks like gtk to me, which is nice becuase it fits in with my gtk-based gnome desktop
15:01<OwenS>reinvented templates**
15:02<OwenS>peter1138: Qt also looks like Gtk to you. Gtk looks like Gtk to me, which makes it stand out like a sore thumb on my KDE desktop
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15:02<peter1138>no, qt looks like shit to me
15:02<OwenS>peter1138: Any decent distro ships QGtkTheme
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15:03<OwenS>QGtkTheme even makes it use GTK's horrid file selectors!
15:03<OwenS>(Sorry, I think it's called QGtkStyle)
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15:05<insulfrog>hi
15:05<Zuu>In the FilterSignList patch I think it is enough to make the "match case" button remember its state. The filter string I don't think need to be remembered when you close the window. Do you agree?
15:05<Zuu>(remember = use static var, but don't save in the config)
15:06<peter1138>always the way
15:07<peter1138>qt/kde users think gtk/gnome is horrid
15:07<peter1138>and vice versa
15:07<peter1138>otoh, fltk is quite nasty
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15:07<OwenS>peter1138: What I want is a toolkit which makes my app behave natively everywhere, and the closest to that is Qt
15:08<peter1138>whereas i don't give a rats ass about windows and os x
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15:09<OwenS>Or KDE ;-)
15:09<peter1138>or indeed kde, which doesn't even look like kde
15:09<+glx><OwenS> reinvented templates** <-- but wxwidget is an old project (started in 1992)
15:09<OwenS>glx: I understand that. They are, however, still doing that. I think by now they've had enough time to change
15:10<OwenS>Also, wx is very MFC, and I don't think many people like MFC ;-)
15:10<Zuu>I personally care more about the ability to integrate the toolkit with existing code, how well supported the toolkit is in the community, ability to build it and if it has stable SDL-support or if I need to port my drawing system to OpenGL.
15:10<OwenS>I don't know of any toolkit with SDL support
15:10<Zuu>wxWidgets has something that looks like a badly written widget for SDL integration.
15:11<OwenS>Heh
15:11<OwenS>(Also, QPainter with the raster graphics system beats SDL and OpenGL speedwise for 2D work)
15:12<+glx>there's wxGL, but I never used it
15:12<+glx>I did only basic stuff with wxwidget
15:12<Zuu>wxGL looks much better than the SDL widget they have.
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15:13<OwenS>Theres also QGLWidget, which I have very good experiences with
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15:15<OwenS>I notice that a few versions back VLC switched to Qt though :-)
15:17*Zuu would like a VLC version with backward play ability but aparently that would require a big change of VLC.
15:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19308 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change [FS#3655]: Increase the default small font size for freetype fonts as 6 point fonts are usually unreadable
15:17<OwenS>Zuu: Backward play? That's impossible with most video codecs
15:17<Zuu>It would be usefull when you analyze a video capture.
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15:18<OwenS>Well, impossible to do in real time. You'd have to decode ~ 100 frames in one go
15:18<+glx>if at least they could get the total time and current position for TS files
15:18<+glx>even WMP can do that
15:18<Zuu>Though, I'm happy that vlc have fast forward at least. watched through 7-8 hours of captured movies today in just 1-2 hours. :-)
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15:19*OwenS has a script which takes a .m2ts file and converts it to mkv for that and other reasons
15:19<OwenS>(Other reasons = otherwise mplayer can't find DVD subtitles for some bizzare reason!)
15:20<+glx>I use TS2MPG for that (no subtiltles and fix mpeg2 stream errors)
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15:20<+glx>for h264 TS it's a different story :)
15:21<OwenS>My m2ts files tend to be MPEG-2 raw DVD rips. I must admit I don't have any raw BD rips, primarily because I lack a drive :p
15:22<OwenS>(Also, BD+ is bloody smart copy protection)
15:24<OwenS>(In fact by all accounts, it's actually doing what it's supposed to do pretty well
15:26<+glx>I have 2 kinds of .TS (both from IPTV recordings)
15:26<+glx>mpeg2 and h264
15:27<OwenS>Heh. Interestingly, our cable provider uses HD MPEG-2
15:28<+glx>IIRC HD is h264 but I don't have enough bandwidth for that :)
15:29<OwenS>Nah; our set top box is recieving 1080i MPEG-2
15:29<+glx>mine could, but I need a better ADSL ;)
15:30<+glx>but I think they use h264 for HD
15:30<OwenS>Turns out that Telewest, in their infinite wisdom, deployed their HD set-top box without a H.264 decoder, and ~4 years later Virgin Media are now saddled with the fact that they have thousands out there who can't get H.264
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15:30<OwenS>At least since it's going over cable they have the bandwidth to pump up the bitrates
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15:33<Zuu>YAFS patch @ FS :-p
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15:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19309 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Update: base set translations for Arabic, Catalan and Norwegian (Nynorsk)
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15:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19310 /branches/1.0/ (23 files in 4 dirs): [1.0] -Backport from trunk: language updates
15:39<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:42<Zuu>hello Nite_Owl
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15:42<Nite_Owl>Hello Zuu
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15:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r19311 /trunk/bin/gm/orig_win.obm: -Fix (r19181): further wrong translations
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17:06<OwenS>Anyone got any suggestions on how to track down what code is printing to the console without my authorisation? :p
17:07<@Rubidium>LD_PRELOAD?
17:08<OwenS>No, I've lost track of where in my program is printing to the console some cryptic lines like "f v" :p
17:10<OwenS>I've tried breaking on write, but it seems glibc does funny things with symbols
17:10<OwenS>Though LD_PRELOAD gives me an idea...
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17:12<OwenS>No, LD_PRELOADING a lib with a write() doesn't work :-(
17:12<@Rubidium>but it does work for malloc, so why wouldn't it work with printf et al?
17:13<OwenS>Perhaps write is declared inline?
17:14<@Rubidium>or a macro or something?
17:15<OwenS>I don't know if it's calling printf, puts, putc or what :-(
17:15<@Rubidium>then strace it
17:15<OwenS>All those turn into write()s
17:17<Wolf01>'night
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17:28<TrueBrain>maybe you should use LD_PRELOAD, not LD_PRELOADING :p
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17:31<OwenS>TrueBrain: Thats what I did :P I found it in the end. In my String class, of all places...
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17:36*OwenS was worried that his interpreter was over 1 million times slower than C for a moment. Then he realised GCC is probably cheating :p
17:37<@SmatZ>gcc is cheating?
17:37<OwenS>constant folding :P
17:37<@SmatZ>hehe
17:38<TrueBrain>that is just clever
17:38<@SmatZ>I wonder that wasn't the first optimisation you implemented :)
17:39<OwenS>SmatZ: Constant folding and function inlining ;-)
17:39<@SmatZ>:)
17:39<@SmatZ>well, constant folding should be trivial
17:40<OwenS>Also, I haven't implemented any optimizers yet, but yes
17:40<OwenS>I need to implement an expression reorder pass and then constant folding
17:41<OwenS>(Reorder changes "(((a + b) + c) + 5) + 6" into "(((a + b) + c) + (5 + 6))" so that constant folding is easier :p
17:41<@SmatZ>it can be tricky, especially with floats
17:41<OwenS>Oh indeed
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17:46<OwenS>Hmm, I'm presently about 20 times slower than Lua *breaks out profiler*
17:48<insulfrog>cyas
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17:48<OwenS>|'m definitely expecting the hotspot to be inside AS::ASI::Interpreter::interpret(), but where inside there is the question :p
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>i hope that's not a 1000 loc function :p
17:52<@Rubidium>nah, rather a 100kloc :)
17:52<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: I'll admit, it's an 1000 line switch on the bytecode opcodes :p
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>you have 1000 opcodes?
17:52<OwenS>No, more like ~35 at the moment
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>so that should be at most a 35 line switch...
17:53<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: While I could break it out, I don't really see a readability advantage here
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17:53<OwenS>But I do see a significant and proven speed disadvantage
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: but readability is not your problem. profilability is...
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17:54<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: It's not going to be an instruction taking the time; it will be one of the trees of functions an instruction calls
17:57<OwenS>ls: reading directory /boot/: Input/output error <-- ?!?!
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17:58<Priski>argh, anyone uses this openid crap?
17:59<OwenS>wtf? e2fsck can't read from /dev/sdb1
18:00<OwenS>FUCK FUCK FUCK
18:00<OwenS>mdadm reporting sdb as faulty spare
18:01<OwenS>brb... maybe
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18:05<fro>Hello?
18:06<valhalla1w>BOOH!
18:06<fro>Can you help me?
18:06*valhalla1w runs around #openttd with a scream mask on
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18:07-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07<fro>I need help
18:07-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
18:07<valhalla1w>although it's not in the topic: don't ask to ask, ask
18:08<valhalla1w>and if someone has an answer and wants to respond, he, she or it will.
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18:08<fro>Why cant i build banks?
18:08<fro>or any other city improvement
18:11<Yexo>banks are industries, you can enable building industries in the advanced settings
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>this is not sim city
18:12<fro>Thank you yexo
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18:14<OwenS`Phone>Device health assesment: Failure imminent
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18:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19312 /branches/1.0/ (12 files in 9 dirs):
18:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
18:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Feature: [YAPF] Consider the railtype imposed speed limit for pathfinding (r19301)
18:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Change: Increase the default small font size for freetype fonts as 6 point fonts are usually unreadable [FS#3655] (r19308)
18:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Change: [NewGRF] Railtype cost factor from byte to word value (r19306)
18:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Disable sound when a sound error happens instead of crashing [FS#3652] (r19304)
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18:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19313 /tags/1.0.0-RC2/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.0-RC2
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18:56<Terkhen>good night
18:56<planetmaker>Yexo, are varaction2 actually already defined in trunk OpenTTD
18:56-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@217.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:56<planetmaker>good night Terkhen
18:56<Yexo>planetmaker: varaction2 for which feature?
18:56<planetmaker>err.. airport tiles
18:56<Yexo>yes, sinse r19200
18:57<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 19200
18:57<planetmaker>ok. I'll just modify the industry tiles page. It's 100% the same except var40
18:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by yexo :: r19200 /trunk/docs (landscape.html landscape_grid.html) (2010-02-22 14:17:26 UTC)
18:57<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Doc: update the map array documentation
18:57<planetmaker>haha :-)
18:57<Yexo>planetmaker: you mean add airport informatino to the industry tile page?
18:57<planetmaker>yes
18:57<Yexo>please don't, the airport page might be expanded in the future
18:58<planetmaker>hm, ok, then I'll make a 100% copy minus var40 and s/industry/airport/ ;-)
18:58<Yexo>hmm, on the other hand, action2 houses and industry tiles also share a page
18:58<Yexo>so it should be fine
18:58<planetmaker>it could still be separated...
18:59<Yexo>do whatever you prefer :)
18:59<planetmaker>and soothes the "this wiki must be kept small and non-redundant" people ;-)
18:59<Yexo>you should update nutracks btw, since r19306 prop 13 is a word, not a byte
18:59<planetmaker>one page is it then for now
18:59<Yexo>thanks :)
18:59<planetmaker>I did update the wiki
19:00<@Rubidium>planetmaker: good idea to keep the wiki small; would you remove all 32bpp related content from OpenTTD's wiki?
19:00<planetmaker>:-D
19:01<planetmaker>not honestly, eh?
19:02-!-[alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
19:02<@Rubidium>go mirroring! :)
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19:03<planetmaker>:-P
19:04<OwenS>This mirroring talk is just reminding me I have a new hard-disk to buy :-(
19:06<OwenS>And that I'm going to have to pay for it to be overnighted :-(
19:06<OwenS>To arrive Friday :-(
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: how about giving the 32bpp people their own wiki?
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19:10<planetmaker>DaleStan: could you please add two entries to the TOC of the newgrf wiki: Action0AirportTiles and VarAction2AirportTiles.
19:10<planetmaker>DaleStan: The latter doesn't yet exist as it'd be identical to the industry tiles page, but each feature has its own. Or possibly rename the VarAction2 page accordingly
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19:11<Yexo>normal action2 for airporttiles is the same as normal action2 for houses and industry tiles
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19:20<planetmaker>Yes. That's why I didn't write anything there
19:20<Yexo>ok :)
19:20<planetmaker>It could / should be mentioned there, I guess...
19:20<Yexo>not really needed
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19:20<Yexo>only thing that still needs updaitng is the callback list
19:20<Yexo>I can do that myself in a minute
19:20<planetmaker>Hm, ok :-)
19:21<planetmaker>I guess I shall go to bed in a few minutes ;-)
19:21<Yexo>planetmaker: the newgrf makefile system doesn't recompile if only a pcx file is changed, correct?
19:22<planetmaker>action0 is easy to find in the code, but I find the varactions2 notoriously bad to find...
19:22<planetmaker>Yexo: it *should* recompile
19:22<planetmaker>If it doesn't I failed half the reason to rewrite it.
19:22<Yexo>oh, I was doing up+enter, but that was "hg push", not "make"
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19:22<planetmaker>:-D
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19:24<planetmaker>uff... then I don't need to loose complete faith in my ability to test what I just wrote ;-)
19:25<planetmaker>and now good night :-)
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19:25<roboboy>hello
19:25<Yexo>gn planetmaker
19:25<PeterT>Hi roboboy
19:26<roboboy>it seems DOS OpenTTD does not like HMMEM386 being loaded
19:26<planetmaker>FILE_SRC_EXTENSIONS = pnfo template
19:26<planetmaker>FILE_INC_EXTENSIONS = wav pcx
19:27<Yexo>yes, it did work :)
19:27-!-Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:27<planetmaker>^ Yexo those are the lines which define the file extensions which are searched for further dependencies, the latter are terminal
19:27<Yexo>small airport is now fully done, and it works (in trunk, not in 1.0)
19:27-!-Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd
19:27<planetmaker>defined in Makefile.config
19:28<planetmaker>nice :-)
19:30<roboboy>hm I seems to have broken my DOS install of OpenTTD
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19:47-!-Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.5, 1.0.0-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only
19:49<roboboy>and I have fixed it
19:50<roboboy>is there any way I can record the dbg messages that come up when I load DOS OpenTTD? Can I redirect them to a text file or something as I do not get a chance to read them before they dissapear
19:51<Yexo>openttd.exe 2> errors.txt
19:51<Yexo>maybe replace 2> by >
19:52<roboboy>thanx
19:52<roboboy>ill see what thy say
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20:41<zachanima>is there an online changelog specifying the fixes in RC2?
20:42<Yexo>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-testing then click changelog on the right
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20:42<zachanima>awesome I love you
20:42<zachanima>thanks
20:43<aber>wow, deployed via load balancing :)
20:45<aber>at least it look like.
20:45<Yexo>it is
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21:09<zachanima>out of curiosity, what is the difference between orig_dos_de.obg and orig_dos.obg?
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>a handful of changed sprites
21:11<zachanima>hmm - and why is this?
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21:12<Eddi|zuHause>because they got sold this way in germany
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>that was 15 years ago
21:13<zachanima>right (gee, is it really that old?)
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21:27<roboboy>openttd.exe > dbg.log and openttd.exe >> dbg.log both produced empty dbg.log files
21:30<roboboy>is there any other way of recording the dbg messages that appear just before the mouse appears in DOS OpenTTD?
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22:02<roboboy>hello again
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22:12<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: > and >> only capture stdout, but all the debug stuff goes to stderr
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know if dos already handles 2>
22:13<roboboy>so how can I capture it?
22:13<FauxFaux>NT and above have posix 2>.
22:13<FauxFaux>No idea about actual dos. :)
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22:27<roboboy>I shall try openttd.exe -d
22:27<FauxFaux>roboboy: openttd.exe 2>dbg.log should work.
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22:31<roboboy>ok
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22:41*roboboy waits for DOS openttd to load
22:41<roboboy>well I got it to exit cleanly by specifying the null driver for sound and music
22:42*roboboy ponders putting a guide to DOS OpenTTD on the wiki
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22:46<roboboy>nope openttd.exe 2> dbg.log just saved the equivelant to running openttd -h to dbg.log
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23:46<De_Ghosty>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitatenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 04 00:00:42 2010