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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-11

---Logopened Thu Mar 11 00:00:06 2010
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02:55<planetmaker>DaleStan: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Airporttiles (you meant that, right?)
02:55<planetmaker>DaleStan: The VarAction2Airporttiles does not exist - I merged it into http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2IndustryTiles - maybe that page can be renamed accordingly to VarAction2IndustryAirportTiles?
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04:10<dih>morning
04:10<@peter1138>yes it is
04:11<dih>orudge: ping ;-)
04:21<@orudge>dih: pong
04:25<dih>orudge: tt-forums question
04:25<dih>is it possible to enable replying to a private message, even if the person who sent the message does not accept pm's?
04:25<dih>or rather: is it possible to enable that?
04:26<@peter1138>planetmaker, easy to define
04:26<dih>i received a private message from Timmaexx and cannot reply
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04:30<planetmaker>peter1138, yes, most probable. I just wanted to make sure that it is prepared for that in the 1st place
04:30<@peter1138>planetmaker, 0 = normal
04:30<@peter1138>1 = zoomed out 1 level
04:30<planetmaker>or our zoom-level people will run away crying ;-)
04:30<@peter1138>extra zoom can piss off ;)
04:30<planetmaker>:-P
04:30<planetmaker>Well. We shouldn't make the specs such that it will become a pain
04:31<@peter1138>-1 would be zoomed in 1 level
04:31<@peter1138>or: specify the size in pixels
04:31<@peter1138>normal = 64
04:31<planetmaker>something like that. Size in pixels sounds awesome
04:31<@peter1138>zoomed out 1 = 32
04:32<@peter1138>zoomed in 1 = 128
04:32<@peter1138>freaky shit that would need lots of coding to work = 96
04:32<planetmaker>hehe, yes :-)
04:32<planetmaker>But that's - just from this quick recap - the option which opens most future possibilities
04:33<planetmaker>Similar to simutrans' pak "size" which can also define different tile sizes
04:34<planetmaker>Also it wouldn't need coding now, but *someone* of the zoom-level freaks would need to come up with a decent implementation ;-)
04:39<OwenS>brr cold
04:40<OwenS>Theres a big hole in the front wall where there used to be a window
04:43<@orudge>dih: I guess not, if they've got it disabled
04:44<planetmaker>tsk. It's not the time of year to remove windows just for the sake of the complexion ;-)
04:49<OwenS>planetmaker: Replacement...
04:49<dih>orudge: and there's no plugin? :-P
04:49<@orudge>I may be able to send a PM if you can't
04:49*OwenS wonders why phpBB doesn't prohibit sending if you're not allowing reception :p
04:49<@orudge>if you PM me with what you want send to whom, I can probably do it
04:50<dih>na - did not want to start that :-P else you'd never get a rest....
04:50<dih>if there is no other way that's just gonna be touch luck
04:50<dih>*tough
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05:05<@peter1138>planetmaker, would need to be a word, to support > 255 pixels
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05:09<planetmaker>yes, I know. I just wonder whether that's needed. But I guess it doesn't hurt.
05:09<planetmaker>Those few bytes won't kill anyone or anything
05:09<@peter1138>well, current extra zoom is 256, isn't it?
05:10<planetmaker>I've no real clue. I never really looked at that patch. I think it's twice the usual size, but I can't tell for sure
05:12<@peter1138>The Extra Zoom Project adds the following features to the game:
05:12<@peter1138>* Two extra zoom-in levels
05:12<@peter1138>so it's 4x
05:12<@peter1138>i don't like it myself, mind you
05:13<@Rubidium>aren't the current sprites in 'reality' 63 high?
05:13<@Rubidium>or wide or whatever
05:13<@peter1138>no
05:13<@peter1138>64x31
05:25<dih>find is a bitch!
05:26<@peter1138>bah, it's not lunch time yet
05:27<planetmaker>oh yes, it is.
05:27<dih>nope :-(
05:27<dih>when do you have lunch pm?
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05:27<planetmaker>we go for lunch at 11:30h...
05:27<planetmaker>so in 5 minutes ;-)
05:28<dih>yikes
05:28<dih>that's early :-P
05:30<@peter1138>gives you a longer afternoon for you siesta
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05:32<dih>peter1138: only if you are able to siesta...
05:32<dih>but if you work.....
05:32<dih>and it also gives you a longer afternoon without another food break
05:32<dih>unless you have early tee & coffee brakes
05:32<dih>*breaks
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06:13<planetmaker>hehe, yes. There'll be a cake and coffee break later :-)
06:15<@peter1138>http://www.enricozini.org/2009/debian/firefox-gc/
06:20<Noldo>:]
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06:28<@Rubidium>peter1138: what's best of firefox's gc is that it gives you lost time back
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06:33<Terkhen>hello
06:35<PeterT>Hello Terkhen
06:36<planetmaker>hello Terkhen
06:48<planetmaker>Rubidium, wouldn't it make sense to link to nforenum / grfcodec / catcodec at least on http://www.openttd.org/en/development ?
06:48<planetmaker>Those links are quite hard to find, if one doesn't know them.
06:49<PeterT>Probably should make a diff to http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/extra/website.hg/file/ce93995ef6f0/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html
06:50<PeterT>planetmaker: It doesn't really fit with compiling, getting the source code, or translating
06:50<PeterT>Or finding bugs
06:50<planetmaker>It fits the title 'development' quite well
06:50<planetmaker>And could well be a separate sub-section on that page
06:51<planetmaker>Like 'Modding' or 'Writing Extensions'
06:51<PeterT>Writing Extensions sounds good
06:57<@Rubidium>well, write a patch :)
06:58*planetmaker hopes that PeterT will do just that :-)
07:01<Ammler>the wiki might help....
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07:08<@peter1138>ah, shortsighted updates :s
07:09<dih>Yexo: ^
07:09<dih>:-P
07:09<dih>that would fit just perfectly :-P
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07:36<Eddi|zuHause>Train::GetCurveSpeedLimit() is a weird function...
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>it iterates "sum += pos - lastpos;"
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>which looks like a telescope sum
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. it could be simplified to "sum = endpos-beginpos"
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07:38<Eddi|zuHause>and it's full of magic numbers
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07:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I think that whole function needs a rethinking
07:43<@peter1138>it does
07:44<@Rubidium>when using 1/8 long wagons you probably won't hit the curve speed limited as fast as when you use 8/8 long wagons
07:44<@peter1138>curve "sharpness" depends on wagon length
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07:54<Eddi|zuHause>curve speed shouldn't depend on the vehicle at all [except tilting]
08:02<planetmaker>he, then the property 11 description needs a note that it's only correct for 8/8 wagons
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08:07<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but it does
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08:18<@peter1138>oops, i just wrote a function that accepts char *... in c# :s
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08:36<fjb>But longer wagons usually need longer curves.
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08:52<Emzzzz>http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268315132.jpg/ do my tits look big?
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08:57<+glx>!ban Emzzzz!*@*
08:58<+glx>@ban Emzzzz!*@*
08:58<+glx>@whomai
08:58<+glx>@whoami
08:58<@DorpsGek>glx: glx
08:58-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
08:59-!-mode/#openttd [+b Emzzzz!*@*] by glx
08:59-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
09:04<KenjiE20>heh
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09:08<Ammler>glx: don't expect it joining a 2nd time ;-)
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09:08<+glx>Annabanz did it many time
09:09<KenjiE20>seems to change at midnight
09:09<@Belugas>hello
09:09<Ammler>Hoidu
09:09<KenjiE20>o/
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09:19<SmatZ>@kban Emzzzz!*@*
09:19<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Error: Emzzzz!*@* is not in #openttd.
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09:21<Starn>sorry client keeps trying to change my name.
09:21<+glx>SmatZ: it's @ban add indeed
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09:24<SmatZ>glx: oh :)
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... if i change _current_company in the tileloop, do i have to take care about setting it to what it was before?
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>or can i assume that anything that uses _current_company sets it to a defined state first?
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09:48<enr1x>hello everyone
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10:57<enr1x>i have a problem: i have a line of trains, which goes to a coal mine called a, then to a coal mine called b, and then unloads in power station, However, it stays in each station for at least three days, even if it's loaded/unloaded
10:57<enr1x>is there any way to immediately leave each station?
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10:58<@Rubidium>sounds like the train is using a timetable
10:58<enr1x>Rubidium: it is not
10:58<@Rubidium>or it's way too long for the station
10:59<enr1x>well, not explicit (does the machine autogenerate them)?
10:59<enr1x>the train is too long? could be
10:59<enr1x>it has like ten trucks attached
10:59<@Rubidium>besides that I wouldn't know without a savegame
10:59<@Rubidium>enr1x: and the station is 6 tiles or more long?
11:00<enr1x>it is just one tile
11:00<enr1x>does that affect the loading process? i will enlarge it, then
11:01<@Rubidium>yes that does affect the loading/unloading speed (quite dramatically)
11:01<enr1x>ok, let me try with longer stations (thanks for the tip)
11:02<enr1x>maybe i am too exaggerated: that train loads 150tones of coal in one station, goes to the next one, to load 150 more, and then unload everything in the power station, might be crazy :)
11:03<enr1x>Rubidium: i have saved the game, are you interested in having a look?
11:04<enr1x>i'm still a n00b (began playing openttd yesterday night)
11:06<@Rubidium>I think I can fairly well imagine the kind of network you've got (based on what I've seen on youtube)
11:06<@Rubidium>but feel free to allow me to confirm that :)
11:08<enr1x>Rubidium: you have a dcc file send request
11:09<enr1x>Rubidium: thanks in advance :)
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11:12<@Rubidium>dcc doesn't seem to work
11:12<enr1x>Rubidium: no worries, let me upload it to my ftp
11:12<@Rubidium>17:10 [OFTC] DCC SEND from enr1x [1.1.1.1 port 0]: enr1xsavegame.tbz2 [107kB]
11:13<Jolteon>DCC never works :o
11:13<@Rubidium>^ that doesn't look like a valid IP/port combination
11:14<SpComb^>1.1.1.1 is routeable
11:14<SpComb^>curiously, the last hop for me is YOU-TUBE-IN.car2.SanJose1.Level3.net ...
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11:27<Jolteon>Can towns in sub-tropical grow to the same size as temperate?
11:32<Jolteon>Er
11:33<Jolteon>Why do I get a message about no suitable AIs when I change amount of towns?
11:33<Jolteon>http://ft.fckitupload.com/ks/wat.PNG
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11:33<@Rubidium>Jolteon: check bugs
11:34-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5761.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
11:35<Jolteon>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3576
11:35<Jolteon>I lol'd
11:36<dih>:-P
11:37<dih>some people have way too much time
11:37<@Rubidium>it's actually that the change of the amount of towns triggers the [easy/medium/high]->custom difficulty and the difficulty change triggers the "is the given amount of AIs going to work?"-check
11:41<Jolteon>hm, i thought of something that'd be nice. (Well, nice IMO)
11:42<Jolteon>Advanced Profit Listing, says exactly where the profit is coming from, Freight, Pax, etc.
11:43<@Rubidium>that's quite tricky if not impossible
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12:03<Jolteon>Rubidium: ah.
12:03<Jolteon>I was presuming it was just making an internal list of what frieght is (anything not passengers)
12:04<@Rubidium>that's the easy part
12:04<Jolteon>by the way, is it possible to load a saved game onto a scenario editor? (I basically want to cheat and hit the expand town button a few times)
12:04<@Rubidium>the hard part is determining how much of the interest etc. has to be deducted from the numbers to get their profit
12:04<Jolteon>It seems to have died and buildings disappeared D:
12:05<Jolteon>ah, more complex math then.
12:05<Jolteon>I thought it was holding ctrl or something to load a saved game into the scenario editor, maybe that was TTDP though
12:07<@Rubidium>Jolteon: rename the file to .scn
12:07<Jolteon>That won't cause any major issues when I rename it back to play it normally?
12:07<Jolteon>Using 1.0.0 RC2 :p
12:07<@Rubidium>nope
12:07<Jolteon>ah, pretty neat.
12:08<@Rubidium>well, maybe it does 'boom' when you save a scenario without towns
12:08<@Rubidium>and load that as a savegame
12:20<Jolteon>bleh.
12:20<Jolteon>Wish I knew how to make a generater than understood flat meant flat.
12:21<Jolteon>that understood*
12:21<Jolteon>Very Flat still has numerous hills.
12:21<@Rubidium>and what's the variety distribution value?
12:21<Jolteon>er, let me check
12:21<Jolteon>I don't know what half of those things do :p
12:22<Jolteon>Variety Distribution: Non
12:22<@Rubidium>odd
12:24<Jolteon>Rubidium: this is with it on 'non'
12:24<Jolteon>http://ft.fckitupload.com/yXs/Unnamed,1stJan2000.png
12:24<Jolteon>This is 'Very High'
12:24<Jolteon>http://ft.fckitupload.com/sb/Unnamed,11thJan2000.png
12:24<Jolteon>So it's about the same, it just made completely unrealistic looking square things :p
12:25*Jolteon is trying to find a combination that makes it all one simple flat land, apart from the odd dips for some lakes.
12:25<@Rubidium>blame whoever wrote that, but that person will probably say that it isn't designed to be used with flat land
12:25<@Rubidium>Jolteon: heightmap!
12:25<Jolteon>No idea how they work, let me go play about with it.
12:27<@Belugas>i guess wording is a bit misleading
12:27<@Belugas>flat is flat
12:27<@Belugas>absolutely flat
12:27<@Belugas>very flat would mean in fact "almost not hilly"
12:28<@Belugas>and not.. very flat
12:28<@Belugas>how flat can flat be?
12:29<Jolteon>Well
12:29<Jolteon>...flat.
12:29<Jolteon>As in no hills at all.
12:29<Jolteon>Nothing frustrates me more than hills in a map.
12:29<Jolteon>I'm trying to find a combination that gives me complete flatness, aside from the occasional dip for a lake.
12:29<Jolteon>also yay, there is heightmap for my area
12:29<Jolteon>The Pennine Hills
12:30<Jolteon>Shame I live in a hill region though.
12:31<Eoin>go onto map editor
12:31<Eoin>just make an all flat map?
12:31<Jolteon>Making an entire map thats usable will take some time.
12:32<Jolteon>What does random seed actually do.
12:32<Jolteon>It just appears to be a random number that slightly changed the overall appearance.
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12:33<Jolteon>also last question before I hop off, does anyone know the max length of a lake a town will build a bridge accross?
12:33<@Rubidium>it is. With that number, the same settings and the same algorithm you'll generate the exact same map over and over
12:33<Jolteon>IE: How many tiles of water before it goes screw it and won't bother bridging it
12:33<@Rubidium>it's less than 100 :)
12:33<Jolteon>Well, I figured that
12:34<@Rubidium>oh, code says 11 tiles
12:34<Jolteon>ahh
12:34<@Rubidium>don't know whether that's including or excluding bridge heads
12:34<Jolteon>ps: any chance of getting that option (and a few others) getting added to the Towns options list?
12:34<Jolteon>I.E disable them building bridges in the first place, chose max length for bridge, blah blah.
12:35<@Rubidium>if someone writes it, perhaps. Not for 1.0.0 though
12:35<Jolteon>gosh darnit
12:35<Jolteon>I wish I knew how to help D:
12:36<@Rubidium>start by buying (and reading) "how to help for dummies"
12:36<Jolteon>Sadly all I know is some language called PAWN, which you couldn't really make an MP3 player with.
12:36<Jolteon>(I use it for making gamemodes for this game, long story)
12:36<Jolteon>Although, it does seem to share some basic syntax with things like C
12:37<Jolteon>Rubidium: Is anyone free to tap into the SVN system and poke about?
12:37<Jolteon>Where poke = view
12:38<@Rubidium>from our point of view yes, but I won't make guarantees that everyone who wants to has actual access (e.g. it might be on Australia's "bad" site list)
12:39<Eoin>hes in the UK
12:39<Eoin>:P
12:39<Jolteon>ah well, I have TortoiseSVN installed for the PAWN projects I work on. I might have a go at accessing the openttd svn at some point later.
12:39<Jolteon>after food, mainly.
12:40<@Rubidium>Jolteon: please don't checkout the whole repository (i.e. don't checkout svn://svn.openttd.org); it wastes a lot of bandwidth and a lot of HDD. Depending on what source you want exactly use /trunk or /branches/1.0 or /tags/1.0.0-RC2
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12:41<Jolteon>Righto.
12:41<Jolteon>Thanks for the chat / help, i'll get off and eat, and vaguely try to make a playable flat scenario that isn't insanely boring for myself :p
12:41*Jolteon toodles off.
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12:53<fjb>Hm, just starting the scenery editor gives a totally flat (and boring) map. So where is the problem?
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12:56<frosch123>fjb: you have to place at least one town
12:56<fjb>And that bugs him?
12:57<frosch123>so you cannot play a totally flat map :p
12:57<Jolteon>fjb: it requires creativity to make it something good :p
12:57<fjb>But the town will stay on flat ground and will not really grow much.
12:57<frosch123>though maye you can bulldoze the town and plant your hq there
12:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19385 /trunk/src/network/core/address.cpp: -Fix [FS#3684]: [IPv6] Netmask calculations were wrong if cidr >= 32.
12:58<fjb>A totally flat map will stay boring, regardless what you do.
12:59<fjb>Always reminds me about model-railways on the floor.
13:04<@peter1138>they're also expensive
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13:06<blathijs>Anyone has any clue why nforenum keeps a ~/.renum directory with datafiles?
13:07<blathijs>From the sources it seems it only writes stuff to these files it already has in memory, only to read it back again later on...
13:08<@Rubidium>blathijs: so you can add support for new callbacks/variables in some cases without having to modify nforenum itself
13:09<@Rubidium>it was especially useful in the time there where no nightlies; they would just make a new .dat file available without having to build different binaries
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13:09<@Rubidium>but now it might not make that much sense anymore, although I reckon it's best to ask DaleStan
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19386 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovak.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: japanese - 1 changes by imkira
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: slovak - 10 changes by keso53
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13:48<blathijs>Rubidium: Right, that makes at least some sense :-)
13:48<blathijs>Perhaps making it optional and otherwise just referencing the data in-memory directly
13:49<blathijs>but well, I guess I'll have to code that myself if I really want that :-)
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13:49<Coldice>PeterT
13:50<Coldice>can someone help me with mingw?
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13:57<@Rubidium>didn't the step through manual work?
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13:59<Coldice>yesterday petert told me to apply airport.patch with command patch -p0 -i airport.patch
13:59<Coldice>and a get a message
13:59<Coldice>can't find file to patch at input line 5
13:59<Coldice>Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
13:59<Coldice>The text leading up to this was:
14:00<Coldice>|diff --git a/src/station_cmd.cpp b/src/station_cmd.cpp
14:00<Coldice>|index 16fcbce..8f35ab8 100644
14:00<Coldice>|--- a/src/station_cmd.cpp
14:00<Coldice>|+++ b/src/station_cmd.cpp
14:00<@Rubidium>that definitely needs -p1
14:01<Coldice>i think that worked
14:01<Coldice>it says "patching file bla bla
14:01<Coldice>and i didnt get any message
14:02<Coldice>thank you very much
14:02<Coldice>one question
14:02<Coldice>can I compile it with visual?
14:03<OwenS>Coldice: If by that you mean visual stufio, yes
14:03<Coldice>yeap.. MSVC++
14:03<Coldice>it`s more easy for me
14:03<Coldice>thank you
14:04<OwenS>Assuming the patch isn't incompatible anyway
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14:22<Coldice>works just fine :D
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14:46<PeterT>Sorry Coldice, the airport patches I've seen were made with -p0
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14:55<DJNekkid>does anyone have a good game-tip for me? (beside openttd ofc) ... and now, dont say ttdpatch :P
14:55<DJNekkid>not FPS-games tho...
14:55<DJNekkid>RTS and tycoon-games :)
14:56<Chruker>rollercoaster tycoon
14:56<DJNekkid>pretty outplayed that also
14:56<SmatZ>I enjoyed Theme Hospital
14:56<SmatZ>UFO: Enemy Unknown
14:57<SmatZ>Transport Tycoon
14:57<SmatZ>Heroes of Might and Magic series
14:57<SmatZ>...
14:57<DJNekkid>hmm
14:57<SmatZ>SimCity
14:57<SmatZ>SimCity 2000
14:57<Chruker>SimTower (I think its called)
14:57<DJNekkid>i actually played simtower the other day
14:57<SmatZ>I remember I saw it in a game shop when I was like 10 :)
14:58-!-enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:58<Chruker>and how old are you now?
14:58<SmatZ>25
14:58<SmatZ>yes, SimTower is ~1994 :)
14:58<Chruker>I remember playing it a lot around 2000
14:59<DJNekkid>i never managed to actually get the hang of UFO/TFTD
14:59<DJNekkid>came to a certain point and it stalled
14:59<DJNekkid>mostly played TFTD tho...
14:59<DJNekkid>and thoose crab-men were hard...
14:59<SmatZ>in UFO I became shooting UFOs into sea in later game stages
14:59<SmatZ>but that wasnt' possible in TFTD
15:00<@Rubidium>DJNekkid: Transport Tycoon Deluxe!
15:00<SmatZ>hehe :)
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15:00<DJNekkid>as ttdpatch is needed for everything above win98...
15:00<@Rubidium>nope
15:00<@Rubidium>dosbox works fine
15:01<DJNekkid>but perhaps i'll try that new'ish UFO-game
15:01<DJNekkid>UFO: Afterlight
15:01<SmatZ>I got UFO Trilogy (Aftermatch, Aftershock, Afterlight?) for quite littlee money
15:02<SmatZ>and.. Commandos!
15:02<DJNekkid>i did get afterlight a couple of years ago, but my computer could not run it properly...
15:02<SmatZ>but I haven't finished playing those games yet...
15:02<DJNekkid>but now i got a brand new one :)
15:03<SmatZ>needs more time than I can provide :-p
15:03<SmatZ>:)
15:03<DJNekkid>yea, most likely
15:03<DJNekkid>but my wife is going with her parents to some canary island in a week, for a week
15:03<SmatZ>hehe :)
15:03<SmatZ>week is hardly enough ;)
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15:04<DJNekkid>i tried that X3: Terrain Conflict a while ago, but got boring quite quick
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15:15<DJNekkid>heey, there is a X-Com1 opensource remake!
15:18<KingJ>DJNekkid: I played X3TC a while back, great game if you keept at it
15:20<DJNekkid>i got into a M7 with 5 M3+'es inside...
15:21<DJNekkid>got quite easy at that point...
15:21*KenjiE20 only has X3:R
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15:21<KenjiE20>I keep meaning to reinstall it, but every time I go to, I loose the urge again >_>
15:21<DJNekkid>and i miss some kind of milletary mission hub or something...
15:24<KingJ>I do enjoy just roving around in a carrier, dispatching all but 1 ship, jumping into the last one myself to fight
15:24<KenjiE20>I just need to find a point where I can actually just sit and leave my world traders for a little while, to build up resources
15:25<SmatZ>[21:15:10] <DJNekkid> heey, there is a X-Com1 opensource remake! <== ufo2000 ?
15:25<DJNekkid>SmatZ: ufo: alien invasion
15:25<SmatZ>DJNekkid: oh, yes :)
15:25<SmatZ>it doesn't use original graphics though
15:25<DJNekkid>hopefully better gfx :)
15:26<SmatZ>I would like to play original game, without bugs
15:26<SmatZ>the most irritating was overflowing of soldier's stats
15:26<SmatZ>:(
15:26<DJNekkid>one could up their stats?
15:27<SmatZ>there's something like "ufo patch", but it doesn't fix that
15:27<SmatZ>as they get more experience, their stats improve
15:27<DJNekkid>oki :)
15:27<Terkhen>or kneeling not taking into account reserved TUs
15:28<SmatZ>when they got too many experience, they got back to "few time units"
15:28<SmatZ>:)
15:28<DJNekkid>few time units?
15:29<SmatZ>UFO:EU was turn-based
15:30<SmatZ>in X-Com:Apacalypse, I enjoyed raiding "Cult of Sirius" for psy-scanners
15:30<SmatZ>that I sold for 5000$ each :)
15:30<DJNekkid>EU ?
15:30<SmatZ>Enemy Unknown
15:30<Terkhen>I only played the first two
15:31*planetmaker also played only the first two. And the first even much more than the 2nd :-)
15:32<DJNekkid>afk
15:33<Terkhen>I remember that after playing for the first time the UFO Enemy Unknown demo I was so scared that I barely could sleep that night :P
15:33<SmatZ>:-D
15:33<planetmaker>hehe
15:33<SmatZ>I could barely understand English, so I didn't really know what's going on
15:34<SmatZ>but still I enjoyed it :)
15:34<Terkhen>I just saw black scary things coming out of the dark and turning my soldiers into zombies
15:35<SmatZ>hehe :)
15:39<@Belugas>ho fuck... ho darn... ho bummer... ho shit
15:39<@Belugas>i found it!
15:39<@Belugas>it's so stupid...
15:39<@Belugas>bug at work.
15:39<@Belugas>simple
15:39<@Belugas>the device has an internal com port
15:39<@Belugas>that comport needs a setting too
15:39<@Belugas>not even related to the general one
15:39<@Belugas>so that was the missing piece
15:40<Zuu>Oh, Belugas theer you are when I have a question about delphi. Do you know if there is any way to change the keyboard shortucts in the IDE?
15:40<SmatZ>great :)
15:40<@Belugas>even if one can talk to the device through srtial port, the device needd to open back its own internal port to the computer
15:40<@Rubidium>oh, not a real bug bugging up the electronics :(
15:40<@Belugas>Zuu, depends
15:41<Zuu>I want to change ctrl+space to ctrl+n.
15:41<@Belugas>Rubidium, naa.. human niot bben smart enough to precise all settings
15:41<Zuu>Or at least something that does not need you to twist your thumb on the kinesis countoured keyboard.
15:41<@Belugas>Zuu, in delphi 4/6 you cannot
15:41<@Belugas>i've not yet worked with the other ones
15:42<Zuu>Okay, I couldn't find anything in the options. Google tells me there is a tool for a lot of money that can do it for me.
15:43<Zuu>I'll take a look at the delphi files if they have the keys defined somewhere in a file.
15:43<@Belugas>yeah.. third party tool would do the job, i thnk
15:44<Zuu>Then I might just make a macro in the keyboard instead and remove it later when I need to use vim.
15:45<@Rubidium>Belugas: that reminds me of http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Testing-the-Path-to-Pain.aspx :)
15:46<OwenS>http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/03/11/move_1.jpg <- Is it just me... or is there ssomething wrong with the rightmost controller? :p
15:47<@Rubidium>OwenS: not as much as that wii controller of that 3-year-old
15:48<@Belugas>Rubidium, i'll read it tonight, promised :)
15:48<@Belugas>Zuu, i guess you can
15:48<@Belugas>or write a code template, works great, depending what yu want to achieve.
15:49<@Belugas>i've got quite a few ones
15:50<Zuu>I want to complete types etc. that you would usually do with ctrl+space, however that combination is quite akward with my keyboard so I use to change that to ctrl+n which is the same as completing words in vim.
15:51<+glx>OwenS: sony make wiimote now?
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15:53<@Rubidium>Zuu: just limit yourself to 26 types
15:53<Zuu>Why 26?
15:53<@Rubidium>a-z :)
15:53<Zuu>:-p
15:54<Zuu>It's not that I'm to lazy to type them completely it's more that I like to get a reminder of the exact naming of them.
15:54<Zuu>Like if there is a plural s or not.
15:54<OwenS>glx: Yes. It's been officially announced
15:55<Terkhen>what is that blue thing?
15:56<+glx>Zuu: ctrl+space is the MSVC way too
15:56<Zuu>Sure, but in MSVC you can remap it.
15:57<OwenS>Terkhen: It's for camera tracking. It means that the console can track the controller unlike the Wii, which only guesses
15:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19387 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3671]: Close all orders windows when switching companies.
15:57<OwenS>Ooh, Virgin are introducing an 100MB package this year
15:58<+glx>let's hope it's more precise than EyePet :)
15:59<planetmaker>hm, seems that Virgin does more than cheap flights around the globe and into near Earth orbits...
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15:59<OwenS>planetmaker: Virgin Records and Virgin Media immediately spring to mind
15:59<OwenS>Oh, Virgin Mobile
15:59<OwenS>Virgin Cola...
16:00<Zuu>http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/cont-above-hands-blk630x390.jpg <-- I have one of those, but a bit older so ctrl is above the enter-key.
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16:00<planetmaker>OwenS, probably only to Brits ;-)
16:00<planetmaker>but yeah, seems I have heard it once...
16:01<OwenS>Virgin Trains... :P
16:01<+glx>virgin radio, virgin 17, virgin megastore
16:01<planetmaker>virgins...
16:01<Terkhen>OwenS: the Wii sensor bar does that too
16:01<OwenS>Terkhen: The sensor bar is significantly less accurate
16:01<+glx>Terkhen: the wiimote tracks the sensor bar
16:02<OwenS>Yeah, the sensor bar is really just an IR light, and a candle works just as well :p
16:02<+glx>or the sun through the window behind the TV
16:02<Terkhen>I know, I just wanted to point the wii does that too (badly) :P
16:02<OwenS>Or an incandecent light bulb
16:02<+glx>then you wonder why it doesn't react well
16:03<OwenS>We had a relative's wii in the house for about 2 weeks (They lent us it as they were in the process of moving). I must say I was not at all impressed
16:04<Terkhen>with or without motionplus?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>Wii is fun for a couple hours with a few friends
16:04<OwenS>Terkhen: Without
16:05<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: For that I may as well put on WipEout HD or such... :p
16:08<OwenS>Incidentally, it's impressive that the PS3's DRM is still secure
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16:09<+glx>it's just because it's harder to copy a bluray
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>it's because the PS3 is "uninteresting" for hackers, and the crackers alone have not enough manpower
16:10<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Or, in other words, Sony's adding of "OtherOS" support was a brilliant idea :p
16:10<+glx>removed for the slim IIRC
16:11<OwenS>glx: Correct
16:11<OwenS>But if you want to run Linux, you can pickup a fat on eBay (or such)
16:11<+glx>and PS1 support while at it ;)
16:11<SmatZ>http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/
16:11<OwenS>SmatZ: DRM not broken
16:11<SmatZ>wasn't PS3's linux support removed some time ago?
16:11<OwenS>SmatZ: Only on the slims
16:11<SmatZ>OwenS: true
16:12<OwenS>He's got full RAM access, but the DRM is still secure. You still cannot duplicate games, and, from his examination, it's still very well secured
16:14<OwenS>And, really, what does full RAM access get us? It turns out that the GPU isn't locked out anyway!
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16:19<@Belugas>Zuu, i don't have that problem. my classes are very easy to remember, as well as a good uniformity of members. plus, i'm working with them since... 1999
16:19<@Belugas>therefor... i know them quite well ;)
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16:20<Zuu>Hehe, yea. Currently I'm only coding on OpenTTDAutoUpdate every few month or so.
16:23<@Belugas>heheh
16:23<@Belugas>speaking of work...
16:23<@Belugas>time's off!
16:23<@Belugas>bye bye!
16:23<Zuu>Cya later
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16:47<enr1x>is there ah3~~/ md5sum downloads/enr1x.sav.tbz2
16:47<enr1x>98d4004776c613a2c6edc175fa732875 downloads/enr1x.sav.tbz2
16:47<enr1x>~/ md5sum enr1x.sav.tbz2
16:47<enr1x>sorry
16:47<enr1x>is there any way to debug trains?
16:48<enr1x>for some way, one of them doesn't leave the depot (sorry about the paste, mistakenly pressed the paste key :P)
16:48<@Rubidium>1) you haven't placed signals or did so incorrectly
16:49<@Rubidium>2) you've placed an electrified depot, bought an electric train but did not build rail with catenary
16:50<Zuu>Or you use maglev and haven't placed all necessary pieces in a junction.
16:51<enr1x>well, i don't find the problem so i moved to another solution
16:51<Zuu>That said, if 2) is fullfilled I would guess that they will leave the depot.
16:51<enr1x>let's see if it works fine
16:51<enr1x>i'm in year 1950, steam trains
16:52-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@61.150.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
16:55<enr1x>is there any (good) tutorial on railroad signs?
16:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19388 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp misc.cpp):
16:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3666]: [NoAI] When reloading a savegame, an AI failing to compile could
16:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: trigger (trying) to read the not yet loaded information of another AI via the AI
16:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: Debug window and its "open with the most recently used AI" feature
16:56<@Rubidium>enr1x: http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/ ?
16:57<enr1x>Rubidium: thanks :)
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16:58<mikegrb>a/win last
16:58<Yexo>enr1x: might not be a good tutorial, but the wiki does include the basic information about signals: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals
16:59-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5761.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:59<enr1x>well, i get confused once i want to choose a signal, and the placement
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>might it be a good idea to have the curve speed code iterate the reserved track instead of the vehicles?
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>assuming that in 95% of the cases at least the space beneath the vehicles is reserved
17:07<enr1x>fuck i messed with the signals and the trains crashed
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>we all did that once :)
17:08<Terkhen>more than once :P
17:08<Terkhen>good night
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17:19<nido>Anyone using the 32 bit graphics around?
17:20<OwenS>enr1x: I killed ~20k people on OpenTTDCoop one night doing that. Thats 20 trains >_</
17:20<planetmaker>haha @ OwenS ;-)
17:21<planetmaker>mass - murderer, you!
17:21<SmatZ>hehe
17:22<planetmaker>I'm not sure about my record, I might not quite hit that number. But a few hundret is relatively easy ;-)
17:25-!-aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:25<OwenS>planetmaker: Lets be fair - I was building and rebuilding a massive station :p
17:25<nido>regardless of 32 bit graphics, do any of you happen to experience openttd crashing a way it needs kill -9 to properly die? I have this with 1.0RC2 (binary) and the lastest svn (self compiled, obviously)
17:25<SmatZ>nope
17:26<@Rubidium>nido: by any chance using Ubuntu?
17:26<nido>it doesn't crash when ran in gdb, and Rubidium yes
17:26<planetmaker>OwenS, yes, and? ;-)
17:26<@Rubidium>nido: read known-bugs.txt
17:26<SmatZ>oh, "regardless"
17:27<@Rubidium>nido: search for "hang when exiting" for the 'optimal' result
17:28<nido>Rubidium: should've read, sorry
17:28-!-aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd
17:28<nido>then again, I should give ubuntu a shoeing for the way they handle sound
17:29<@Rubidium>well, they integration of the different sound stuff is definitely bad
17:29<@Rubidium>s/they/their/
17:29<nido>it closes well now :)
17:29<@Rubidium>it probably uses way fewer CPU too
17:30<nido>I get the part where they set the oss->alsa->pulseaudio emulation chain, that's perfectly okay; but why not install the pulseaudio sinks instead of the alsa ones if you happen to package them anyway?!?
17:31-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F38A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:32<@Rubidium>nido: because they leech 75% of their packages directly from Debian without thinking
17:32-!-Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-18-169.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:32<@Rubidium>SDL is in those 75%
17:32<OwenS>Rubidium: I'm again glad my system is pure OSS
17:32<OwenS>(Well, I have libalsa configured to talk to OSS for Flash...)
17:33<@Rubidium>a fairly simple change would probably make pulse the default over ALSA and the whole problem is basically gone
17:33<nido>you are right. And SDL is right up with mplayer and the kernel in the list of stuff they're gonna look at laster; the number of pixels used in the border width; now lets start on that first
17:33<OwenS>I'd much prefer dumping the entire ALSA stack, personally ;-)
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17:34<nido>OwenS: don't you kinda need it? Like as in the interface with your actual sound card?
17:34<nido>oh wait; oss; sorry
17:34<OwenS>nido: Thats what OSS is doing. A damn side better
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17:35<nido>can you pipe pulse into oss as well?
17:35<OwenS>nido: Probably, but why?
17:35<nido>OwenS: easily configured network audio
17:35<OwenS>nido: I don't need network audio. Also, Pulse is quite tightly bound to ALSA
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17:37<nido>pulse pretends to be an audio driver; which is why it has it's back end so tightly to the alsa output. However, if it can just dump sound it's enough for me
17:37<nido>sound card latency is not really an issue with networked audio ^^
17:38<OwenS>You can make ALSA dump audio through OSS (and therefore make Pulse able to use it), but that will probably stop apps from sending audio to Pulse
17:38<OwenS>The ALSA and Pulse web is a mess
17:38<OwenS>(Plus, Pulse does mixing and such which is pointless when OSS has the very fast vmix)
17:39<nido>i like the ability to set the sound level above 100% though; with a laptop that can sometimes be handy
17:40<OwenS>OSS can go up to 120% or so. Going higher tends to cause clipping with most audio and therefore sounds awful
17:40<nido>the part about oss which is expecially cool is that it works on openbsd as well (free and net too i think)
17:41<OwenS>And it's the builtin sound system for OpenSolaris
17:41<OwenS>Linux is the odd one out
17:41-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:42<OwenS>And I don't buy their excuse that "Mixing is policy and should not be implemented in the kernel". You're not building a microkernel, guys!
17:43-!-ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has joined #openttd
17:43<nido>err, shoesn't the microkernel exclude drivers by default?
17:43<nido>anyway; openbsd, linux, <insert pretty much any other OS you know>; all monolythic kernels
17:44<OwenS>nido: And a VFS. And <x>... So a software mixer is no different! Especially one as efficient as OSS' VMix
17:44<SmatZ>gnu hurd?
17:45-!-jordi [~jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:45<OwenS>SmatZ: If you want a microkernel, that would be GNU Mach, which Hurd is built on. Or you could look at the much superior L4.
17:45<nido>SmatZ: that and minix are the reason i said 'pretty much'
17:45<OwenS>QNX also ;-)
17:45<nido>MiniX!
17:46<OwenS>Microkernels are awesome. If I ever restart my OS project it's so gonna be a minimal microkernel
17:47<OwenS>(By minimal I mean I'm only going to implement very basic message passing and implement the sockets/streams/whatever in a userspace lib on top of ringbuffers :P)
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17:49<nido>OwenS: at the risk of sounding like a fanboy; what you say sounds very much like minix to me, have you checked it out?
17:50<OwenS>nido: I have. Minix doesn't do it using raw ringbuffers
17:50<nido>true
17:50<OwenS>Also, Minix is a bit too unixy for me. I'll definitely have a unix personality, but I'll have a more important native one too
17:51<nido>sounds interesting
17:52<DaleStan><blathijs> Anyone has any clue why nforenum keeps a ~/.renum directory with datafiles? <-- Rubidium is correct. Historically, it's so NFORenum can support new features without being recompiled. Even now, NFORenum can be extended to support unofficial things for testing, and those data files are portable to most if not all host OS/hardware, unlike the binaries.
17:52<DaleStan>... Also, I haven't hammered out a different way to read data from both disk and memory (char[]).
17:52<OwenS>nido: Finally, I've decided I'm gonna make Qt my native UI toolkit :p
17:53<nido>OwenS: does that include kde4?
17:53<OwenS>nido: No, but kdelibs would definitely be portable, and therefore you could bring Amarok & co with you
17:53<nido>amarok :)
17:54<nido>I have yet to find a media managing program which could take my collection, amarok came closest, but not close enough
17:54<OwenS>Heh
17:54<OwenS>Mine is ~20GB
17:55<KenjiE20>mpd + custom client?
17:56<@Rubidium>no xmms? :)
17:56<nido>I'm scanning the main dir now. There's probably some duplicates and surely immense chaos but the total is...
17:56<nido>xmms2 and mpd both died taking it in
17:56<@Rubidium>xmms2 sucks
17:56<nido>this is taking too long; it was about 120gb
17:56<nido>156g according to find :)
17:56<OwenS>Actually, Amarok has lost track of my collection. Primarily because it disagrees with my SMB mount :-(
17:57-!-rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:57<nido>i'm creating a decentralised managing system, so far it read up the collection; didn't program much more yet
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: have you tried accessing the database? when i moved my collection from one drive to another, i had to change the device id in the database for it to recognize the files
17:59<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: I rescan the collection, but then it drops all the records when my machine beats the server at booting up :p
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>sounds weird
18:00<OwenS>Well, the collection fails to mount, so it looks at the directory and scratches it's head "No files here. Did he delete everything?"
18:01<nido>that's a problem for me as well
18:01-!-Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>have you considered reporting that?
18:02<nido>Do you happento know who I need to contact with regard to rendering errors with the 32-bit graphics? http://foxserver.be/rendererror.png
18:02<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure how they would fix it if I reported it. Not remove from collection if missing? What if they actually deleted the file?
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18:03<OwenS>nido: That looks like a extra zoom levels image?
18:03<nido>true
18:03<OwenS>In that patch's thread. The developers don't support it and it has a very low chance of hitting trunk
18:03<@Rubidium>check the 32 bpp subforum on the forum
18:03<OwenS>(According to discussion last night)
18:04<enr1x>well, time for a nap
18:04<nido>discussing on this #?
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18:04<enr1x>good night guys
18:04-!-enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has quit [Quit: gnite!]
18:04<OwenS>nido: It was discussed here. I only read it in passing
18:05<nido>OwenS: just checking; i have logs so i can check it out later. happen to know the time (and what is local time for you now)?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>looks like somebody did not consider the corner-shores properly when naming the .png files
18:05<OwenS>nido: Late
18:05<nido>Eddi|zuHause: i had the same idea; however, there seem to be some missing tiles; and some are double
18:06<nido>i'll grep for patch or soemthing
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>nido: the corner shores are not part of the original graphics, they are addon graphics (openttd[dw].grf or opengfx-extra.grf)
18:07<Ammler>or 32bpp-extra.grf :-)
18:07<nido>Eddi|zuHause: then it should take the original graphics
18:08<Ammler>the graphics are there just wrong numbered...
18:09<Ammler>it might not support the special case for base sets...
18:09<nido>this stuff really needs to be sorted out
18:09<nido>darn what a mess
18:09<Ammler>I guess, it is, you just use an old version...
18:09<planetmaker>if one allows add-ons, it's always possible to mod-to-death the original programme
18:10<nido>planetmaker: that's the nice part of open source, i can much around with my own little tree as much as i want and i can present it when it is in a state in which it is actually useful
18:11<planetmaker>sure
18:11<nido>besides, this is the only program i have that actually has an add-on installer in the mail program
18:11<planetmaker>_mail_ programme?
18:11<nido>*main
18:12<SmatZ>that was confusing
18:12<planetmaker>ah, yes. :-)
18:12<planetmaker>actually a nifty feature, though :-)
18:13*nido should create an addon which allows editing addon by clicking on the post cargo :p
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18:15<Ammler>http://www.bytetransfer.de/projects/ttdpatch/docs/spriteidmapping.php <-- Arctic and Tropic have same offset?
18:15<DaleStan>Yep.
18:15<Ammler>is that sprite id mapping documented somewhere else?
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18:16<Ammler>DaleStan: so it depends which clima I play?
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18:16<DaleStan>I assume you mean "besides the TTD binary and OpenTTD sources"? Not that I know of.
18:16<DaleStan>And yes.
18:17<planetmaker>nido: what is a "post cargo"?
18:17<SpComb^>nido: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/search?q=extra+zoom
18:17<SpComb^>(mind you, not that I can find this alleged discussion...)
18:18<SpComb^>but if OwenS does, the per-line links are timezone-agnostic :P
18:18<nido>planetmaker: mail bags; SpComb^ tnx
18:19<planetmaker>ah. I guess you have no concept of the involved complexity of these add-ons, though ;-)
18:19<planetmaker>I counted a few days ago for an industry newgrf: 17% of the code lines are statement which define graphics. The rest is logic
18:19<Ammler>thanks DaleStan
18:20<planetmaker>lik 1500 graphics and 10000 lines code
18:20-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:21<Ammler>ah, that is eis_os homepage
18:21<OwenS>SpComb^: It seems to be about this point: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2010-03-11?page=2 . Worded less strongly than I remember though
18:22<@Rubidium>SpComb^: your I
18:22<@Rubidium>SpComb^: your IPv6 connectivity is broken
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18:27<SpComb^>OwenS: use the hidden little >>> thing to the left of each line as the link
18:28<SpComb^>(yes, I was just looking at how to fix the damn thing to be more visible, but it's not that easy...)
18:29<SpComb^>Rubidium: HE.net's amsterdam POP is down
18:29<SpComb^>Rubidium: so 1/3 of my AAAA's is non-responsive, doesn't it load at all?
18:30<@Rubidium>it loads once it has fallen back to IPv4
18:30<@Rubidium>but that takes a while
18:30<SpComb^>unless, of course, you're on 6to4, then my sesto01.sixxs.net path is also non-responsive
18:31-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F38A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:31<OwenS>SpComb^: Can't you just use direct anycast 6to4?
18:31<SpComb^>OwenS: I don't use 6to4. Other people do
18:31-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba8879.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:31<SpComb^>OwenS: there's something wonky about sesto01's 6to4 return path
18:31<OwenS>SpComb^: Why not? Or are you on an IPv6 native network?
18:32<SpComb^>I have manually configured tunnels
18:32<OwenS>Meh... Anycast 6to4 tends to work better I find
18:32<SpComb^>more unreliable, since the routing is assymetric
18:33<SpComb^>and teredo/6to4 traffic's been spiking a little recently, so many 6to4 relays are a little overloaded
18:33<OwenS>Heh. I presume you're using the v6-in-v4 protocol though, rather than say AYIYA? :-)
18:33<SpComb^>yes
18:34-!-jordi [~jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:34*OwenS thinks that some country should make an IPv6 push by mandating that all networking equipment sold after a certain date should be IPv6 capable, and consumer equipment should do automatic IPv6 and 6to4 fallback
18:36<SpComb^>OwenS: did you find the per-line link thing in the logs yet?
18:37<SpComb^>the date/....?page=... links aren't good, since their contents are timezone-dependent
18:37<SpComb^>I seriously need to fix it to make the entire timestamp prefix work as a link or something, but that requires structural changes
18:38<OwenS>SpComb^: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1268299605#1268299605
18:38<SpComb^>better
18:38<SpComb^>hidden UI elements that are two chars wide just turned out to not be so user-friendly in terms of discoverability :)
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18:44<Eddi|zuHause>hence they are hidden :p
18:55<SpComb^>OwenS: but look, I workarounded by adding a local 2002::/16 return route
18:55<SpComb^>Rubidium: are you on 6to4?
18:56<@Rubidium>SpComb^: don't know; I use freenet6 (or what used to be freenet6)
18:57<SpComb^>presumeably not, then
18:58<SpComb^>but at least 2/3 of the AAAA's for irclogs.qmsk.net should be responsive, so ideally, browsers should be able to fallback to one of those :/
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>hm... starting a 40 minutes download 10 minutes before disconnection is probably not the brightest idea...
18:58<@Rubidium>SpComb^: 2/3 of the AAAAs doesn't work
18:59<SpComb^>Rubidium: which one does?
18:59<@Rubidium>2001:16d8:ff00:39d::2
18:59<SpComb^>huh
18:59<SpComb^>does `ping6 fihel01.sixxs.net` respond for you?
19:00-!-ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:00<@Rubidium>nope
19:00<SpComb^>must be some routing anomly then, because it does work from my dedus tunnel
19:00<@Rubidium>it does from my server which has native IPv6
19:01<SpComb^>freenet6 -> fihel01 broken, then
19:01<SpComb^>can you give a freenet6 address?
19:02<@Rubidium>2001:5c0:1400:b::196 is likely the 'other' end of my tunnel
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19:26<JakeGrimshaw>hello
19:28<Zuu>Hi JakeGrimshaw
19:29<Zuu>It's always nice to read your email and see that the devs has been able to fix another bug, making things even more stable.
19:34<JakeGrimshaw>about what ? i forget :)
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19:38<@Rubidium>Zuu: yeah; I'm starting to get a bit happier about the state of the bug tracker again
19:38-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
19:39<Zuu>Nice
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19:40<JakeGrimshaw>anyone eyeing my Swiss scenario then ?! :P
19:40<@Rubidium>2 are more or less harmless, one is annoying for AI developers, one is possibly annoying for competitive players. The rest is either "not enough information" or "Mac OS X"
19:44<JakeGrimshaw>also, does anyone here know if it would be possible to change the rock graphics ?
19:44<JakeGrimshaw>if some were re-drawn, could they be used instead
19:45<Yexo>you could ask if opengfx wants to include the new version, or alternatively create a newgrf that replaces the rock graphics
19:45<JakeGrimshaw>oh ok
19:45<JakeGrimshaw>i was hoping maybe to replace them with ice graphics
19:45<JakeGrimshaw>for mountain faces and glaciers
19:45<Zuu>Rubidium: The one annoying for the AI devs, is it that one that compile errors do not show when you load a game?
19:45<@Rubidium>Zuu: yup
19:45<Yexo>JakeGrimshaw: that would be perfect for a newgrf
19:46<JakeGrimshaw>awesome, I shall look into that
19:46<Zuu>Though you was going to post pone fixing that one to after 1.0, but if you do it before I won't complain. :-)
19:46<JakeGrimshaw>also, i dont know how much you use rocks + Alpine Climate ? but if/when you do, there are graphical errors in there.
19:47<JakeGrimshaw>not really anyone's problem, i know, but i would like to look into getting them fixed myself
19:47<Yexo>what kind of graphical problems?
19:47<JakeGrimshaw>well
19:47<JakeGrimshaw>take one tile individually
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19:47<@Rubidium>Zuu: true, though it's one of the bugs I won't postpone 1.0.0 for
19:48<@Rubidium>and I'm far from certain how much needs to be changed to solve it
19:48<JakeGrimshaw>you may or may not know that since 1.0.0 beta 3 (ish), it is possible to place rocks under snow, and then when the snow retreats the rock still shows ?
19:48<Yexo>JakeGrimshaw: yes, I coded that :)
19:48<@Rubidium>JakeGrimshaw: don't think Yexo knows that
19:48<@Rubidium>argh... just too late :(
19:48<JakeGrimshaw>ohhh im talking to just the right person then !
19:49<Zuu>Indeed, it would also depend I guess if you fix it properly or just a workaround. But still without having taken a good look at the code it's hard to say how much work it is.
19:49<Yexo>Rubidium: have you looked at that bug already? Else I can take a look now
19:49<Yexo>doesn't sound too hard
19:49<@Rubidium>Yexo: no, haven't looked at it
19:50<JakeGrimshaw>basically, a rock tile under the snow is fine, but as the snow retreats, you get the tiles that are say 1/4 grass and 3/4 snow, then a month later 1/2 and 1/2. and then the following month 3/4 grass and 1/4 snow, and then finally you get the rock appearing.
19:50<JakeGrimshaw>would it be possible to create tiles that are 1/4 rock and 3/4 snow ?
19:50<JakeGrimshaw>or snow on rocks ?
19:50<Yexo>not sure, since there are no graphics in the baseset for that
19:51<JakeGrimshaw>true, but if some were drawn, would it be possible code-wise ?
19:51<Yexo>codewise it's no problem at all
19:51<JakeGrimshaw>hmmm maybe i shall have a look at it
19:52<JakeGrimshaw>i didnt know how many people (if any) still use the AlpineClimate grf
19:52<Yexo>but I have no idea how it'd work on the newgrf side
19:53<JakeGrimshaw>hmmmmm
19:53<JakeGrimshaw>well thanks for your help anyway
19:58<PeterT>Hey JakeGrimshaw
19:58<JakeGrimshaw>hello
20:01<JakeGrimshaw>you alright ?
20:02<PeterT>Yes, you?
20:03<JakeGrimshaw>yeahh not bad
20:03<PeterT>Making that scenario?
20:03<PeterT>you saw I made that comment that we would use the scenario on the server
20:03<PeterT>#jolteon is the server's channel
20:04<JakeGrimshaw>ohhh ok
20:05*Jolteon appears.
20:05<Jolteon>I was summoned.
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>"Die Geister die ich rief"
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorcerer's_Apprentice
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20:13-!-Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit []
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>(that's basically the 18th century version of a forkbomb)
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20:26<JakeGrimshaw>people still here ?
20:26<PeterT>No
20:27<JakeGrimshaw>good
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20:28<JakeGrimshaw>is it possible to play as yourself and as an AI in a single player game. I know you can cheat to switch to control them, but it is possible to stop them building anything ?
20:28<Yexo>save the game, remove all AIs you have then reload the game
20:28<Yexo>the dummy AI will be loaded instead and it doesn't do anything
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>you can program your AI to stop on certain conditions (like a sign posted somewhere)
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, you can't chat with AIs :(
20:30<Yexo>I had a patch for that (before noai was merged to trunk)
20:30<JakeGrimshaw>so it will enable me to have say, different train companies ?
20:31<Yexo>you can also create an AI that does nothing
20:31<Yexo>then start that AI a fwe times
20:31<Yexo>and you have the companies for yourself
20:31<JakeGrimshaw>but that would involve making my own AI, yes ?
20:31<Yexo>yes, but that's very simple if it just has to sleep
20:32<JakeGrimshaw>true
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20:32<JakeGrimshaw>i know it wouldnt be advised, but could you not load any old AI, let it crash because you have so many grf's added, and then just use them because they would not build ?
20:33<Yexo>that's also possible
20:33<Yexo>but then you'd have to find a way to reliable crash them
20:33<JakeGrimshaw>they do seem to crash when i load my usual grf's (train sets etc)
20:34<Yexo>you should report those crashes in the noai forum
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20:34<Yexo>if they're not reported they can't be fixed
20:34<JakeGrimshaw>oh, i just thought that the AI's werent created to be used with a mixture of train sets, so i never bothered reporting them
20:35<Yexo>some may not work, but at least they should not crash
20:36<JakeGrimshaw>i suppose so
20:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19389 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix [FS3676]: only show the "No AIs available" error message when explicitly changing the number of AI opponents
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20:43<JakeGrimshaw>that saving of game technique didnt seem to work
20:43<JakeGrimshaw>they just resumed again when i loaded the game
20:43<Yexo><Yexo> save the game, remove all AIs you have then reload the game <- you also have to remove all AIs you have, then no AI can be started
20:45<JakeGrimshaw>ok, so I start a game with 2 AI's, save it, quit, go to the main screen and go back to 0 Ai's, and then load the game ?
20:46<Yexo>no, just remove all AI tar files from your computer
20:47<JakeGrimshaw>ohhhh
20:47<JakeGrimshaw>remove all, or just the AI that i began the game with ?
20:48<Yexo>all, otherwise another AI will be loaded instead
20:48<JakeGrimshaw>ohhh ok
20:48<Yexo>but as I said, creating a sleepr AI that does nothing would be easier
20:48<JakeGrimshaw>indeed so
20:48<Yexo>and still allows you to play other games with an AI
20:49<JakeGrimshaw>another idea i am just trying is to play with a StreetTraffic AI, but just never load a cars.grf file
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20:54<JakeGrimshaw>this seems to work ok
20:54<JakeGrimshaw>i might use this until i have the time to make an AI as you descrived
20:54<JakeGrimshaw>described*
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20:55<Yexo>just did so for you: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/sleeperai.tar
20:57<JakeGrimshaw>blimey, I know you said quick to do, but i thought you meant for someone that was used to making them !
20:57<JakeGrimshaw>thank you
20:57<Yexo>I am used to making them :)
20:59<JakeGrimshaw>ohhhh ok :)
20:59<JakeGrimshaw>are running loads of these AIs likely to slow the game up like a normal AI, even though they are not doing anything ?
21:00<Yexo>not at all
21:00<Yexo>you won't even be able to measure the difference without or with this AI
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21:01<JakeGrimshaw>excellent :)
21:01<JakeGrimshaw>is there any way to relieve the 14 max limit on AIs ?
21:02<Yexo>that would be a lot of work
21:02<JakeGrimshaw>oh, not just a simple change then
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21:03<Zuu>Why would you like to have more than 14 AIs? ;-u
21:03<Zuu>;-)
21:07<Zuu>Why can't everyone have black AIs?
21:07<JakeGrimshaw>well, if i was to make each one a swiss train company
21:07<JakeGrimshaw>then i would need more than 14 :)
21:08<Zuu>Nah, got the OTTDAU update up now, so lets go to bed and see what problems people have had with it tomorrow. :-D
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21:15<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure if the person that named the program "OTTDAU" realized what "DAU" actually means [in german] :p
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21:27<JakeGrimshaw>my scenario has been released by the way
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23:02-!-DanMacK [~here@bas8-london14-1242504679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
23:05<DanMacK>Hey all
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23:54<roboboy>hello
23:54-!-ST2 [~ST2@be2-84-91-63-12.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
23:54<roboboy>Dan nice toyland sprites in the OpenGFX thread
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 12 00:00:07 2010