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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-12

---Logopened Fri Mar 12 00:00:07 2010
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03:59<blathijs_>DaleStan: It's just some extra files I have to clean up in building the Debian opengfx package, but it's not really a big deal now I understand what happens :-)
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04:38<dih>good wonderful morning
04:38<woldemar>morning
04:39<woldemar>actually, it's already am there
04:39<woldemar>(gmt+4)
04:39<dih>it's already am??
04:40<dih>are you sure?
04:40<dih>i mean - it's am here too, but not 'already'
04:40<dih>it has been now for nearly 11 hours
04:40*woldemar looks at the window (physical window)
04:40<woldemar>well, it's 13:37
04:40<dih>which makes it pm
04:40<dih>:-P
04:40<woldemar>anyway morning was good :)
04:42<woldemar>omg
04:43<woldemar>of course i mean pm
04:43<woldemar>meant*
04:43<woldemar>>_<"
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04:43*woldemar is always confused with that
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04:47-!-cyclo [~a@88-149-244-31.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #openttd
04:47<cyclo>Good Morning, Buenos Dias, Buondì!
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04:50<cyclo>Use different trains with different speeds, how can I do using 3 tracks to allow the overtaking?
04:50<cyclo>sorry for the bad english!
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04:53<woldemar>cyclo: you-re not alone with not-so-good-language
04:53<cyclo>ahaha ok
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04:53<cyclo>ok ok
04:53<cyclo>i have 2 or more questions
04:53<woldemar>cyclo: i had built such combination of railways, but haven't screenshot/schema to show you right now
04:54<cyclo>ah ok
04:54<woldemar>guess you searched wiki?
04:54<cyclo>yes
04:54<cyclo>but i can't find a solution
04:54<cyclo>only solution is using 4 tracks
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04:55<woldemar>what do you mean with overtracking?
04:55<cyclo>passing
04:55<cyclo>the train fastest pass the slowest
04:55<woldemar>one slow train goes, and another fast train can pass slow one and arrive first?
04:55<cyclo>yes
04:55<cyclo>using 3 tracks
04:56<cyclo>1 track for pass
04:56<cyclo>hold i take a screenshot
04:56<woldemar>i did that with two railways
04:56<cyclo>what key do screen?
04:56<woldemar>its not needed
04:56<cyclo>ah ok
04:57<woldemar>also my internet is awesomely limited
04:57<woldemar>as i remember: i made two parallel railways with one swquare distance between them
04:58<cyclo>ok i need 2 railways, one for way
04:58<woldemar>then made small rails 1 to 2 and 2 to 1
04:58<cyclo>and the third for pass
04:58<woldemar>um
04:58<woldemar>ok
04:59<woldemar>then i may suggest only 4-way solution
04:59<cyclo>no no i don't like
04:59<cyclo>cause in italy
04:59<woldemar>i somehow thought you are talking about one-way rails
04:59<cyclo>screenshot http://daxcimix.homeftp.net/Pendingworth%20Transport,%202%20Gen%202020.png
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05:02<woldemar>maybe new way-signals may help to build such track
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05:04<cyclo>way signal? i was thinking about path signal in middle railways
05:04<cyclo>http://daxcimix.homeftp.net/Pendingworth%20Transport,%202%20Gen%202020%231.png
05:04<cyclo>like this
05:04<cyclo>what do you think about?
05:07<woldemar>maybe
05:07<woldemar>i could try this at home this evening)
05:09<cyclo>oooh :D thank you :)
05:09<cyclo>are you working? :D
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05:11<woldemar>well, i should
05:11<woldemar>but i did most of the work
05:11<woldemar>now just watching how system works
05:11<cyclo>ihihhi :D
05:11<woldemar>if i did not made much bugs - then i even can leave earlier
05:11<woldemar>if did - have to fix immediately
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05:14<@peter1138>bleh, how the fuck does mousekeys get enabled every day?
05:14<cyclo>do you like your job?
05:15<cyclo>ok i do a circuit to test it :D
05:24<enr1x>good morning
05:24<cyclo>good morning!
05:25<cyclo>some months ago i saw a speed signal patch
05:25<cyclo>someone has got it?
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05:30<dih>cyclo: tt-forums.net <- search!
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05:43<enr1x>could anyone help me out a bit, please? i have no idea what signal to put in a rairoad i have in a small network i have set up. i have a screenshot in http://enricus.info, in its index you'll find a png called "cadaques transport..."
05:44<enr1x>i want to set up a train going from torrentfosc mines to cadaques heights, and then to collbato woods, without interfering with the other train (circular line)
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05:49<SpComb^>enr1x: only use one-way signals on the shared track
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05:52<enr1x>SpComb^: thanks for the reply :). One before the beginning of the shared track, and the next one around the middle of the circular track?
05:53<SpComb^>whatever you need, point being that two trains can't meet head-on along a single stretch of track
05:54<enr1x>so one before each station would suffice, right?
05:56<SpComb^>whatever you want for capacity
05:56<SpComb^>you could put one on each tile
05:56<SpComb^>or something more reasonable
---Logclosed Fri Mar 12 06:00:36 2010
---Logopened Fri Mar 12 06:00:42 2010
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06:03<enr1x>i am trying with one before each station, with good results
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06:04<SpComb^>then you can put two-way signals on those pieces of track with only one train, if it needs to go in both directions
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06:04<SpComb^>for block signals; it's also possible to do it with path signals, but then the placement needs to be slightly different
06:06<SpComb^>(one two-way signal per track, at the point where it joins the others)
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06:10<Eddi|zuHause><cyclo> Use different trains with different speeds, how can I do using 3 tracks to allow the overtaking? <-- how about doing it like this? http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%%20Elsmuenster%%20Transport,%%2023.%%20Maer%%201942.png
06:10<SpComb^>bad quoting
06:11<SpComb^>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, something went wrong there...
06:11<SpComb^>also, too few trees
06:12<SpComb^>and very long signal blocks
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>it only works with long signal blocks
06:12<SpComb^>two signal blocks
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>if the signal blocks are too short, the overtaking train may get stuck against an opposite train
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>you can only put two signal blocks between two switching places
06:13<SpComb^>I see the two blocks, but too short?
06:14<SpComb^>but myes, they have to be suitably long for the overtaking to work sensibly
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06:56<DaleStan>blathijs: Is your HOME properly set? It's supposed to try to create $HOME/.renum before ./.renum.
06:58<@Rubidium>DaleStan: if I recall correctly HOME isn't set in Debian's autobuilders (i.e. Debian's compile farm)
06:58<@Rubidium>DaleStan: and writing to HOME is kinda not-done in case of Debian's autobuilders anyway
06:59<@Rubidium>though this probably holds also for other 'build farms'
07:02<Ammler>a system wide data share would be nice, which get overridden from user data.
07:03<Ammler>(but that requires writing data with make)
07:05<Ammler>so you could system data without updating renum
07:05<Ammler>update*
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07:09<Ammler>(a first location beside $HOME and .)
07:10<@Rubidium>Ammler: why should it create the files in the first place if in 99% of the time you're not going to change them?
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07:11<Ammler>indeed, no need
07:11<@Rubidium>I'd say just add a command line parameter to create the files if you want to, read them if they exist and otherwise don't create them
07:11<Ammler>also there is already possible to create the data in custom directory with -D
07:12<Ammler>but it might be needed to compile the system data share in, as not every distro might use same location
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07:51<Gorillagram>good morning DanMacK
07:51-!-Gorillagram is now known as Pikka
07:51<Pikka>hmm
07:51*Pikka wonders what happens if you divide by 0 in an action 2 chain...
07:53<LadyHawk>error?
07:53<LadyHawk>error, error, does not compute
07:53*Pikka is going to find out
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07:54<Pikka>I can just add one to the divisor to stop it happening, but I'll experiment first :P
07:57<andythenorth>Pikka: any result?
07:57<Pikka>not a lot happened, andy
07:57<Pikka>oh wait
07:58<Pikka>that would be because I was using the wrong vehicle >_>;
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08:01<Yexo>Pikka: if the divisor is 0 then openttd will just return last_value
08:01<Pikka>I see.. thanks Yexo
08:02<planetmaker>hey ho Pikka
08:03*dih pokes Yexo
08:03<dih>and hides :-P
08:03<planetmaker>Pikka, do you mind if I add your sprite templates for the vehicles to OpenGFX?
08:03<Yexo>hello dih :)
08:03<dih>how are you sir?
08:03<planetmaker>Vehicles and trains there are currently a mess wrt alignment. And doing it properly would probably be easy by using your templates :-)
08:04<planetmaker>hello dih & Yexo, too :-)
08:04<roboboy>ello all
08:04<Pikka>planetmaker: I don't mind at all, that's what they're there for. they only work for trains afaia though.
08:04<planetmaker>well, that's where I have most problems with now :-)
08:06*roboboy tried drawing a haybail today and it sucked ):
08:06<planetmaker>thanks, Pikka :-)
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08:12<Yexo>TrueBrain: I'm trying to commit to an noai svn repository but I get: svn: Server sent unexpected return value (502 Bad Gateway) in response to COPY request for '/svn/lib-common/!svn/bc/5/trunk'
08:12<Yexo>I do remember I had the same problems a long time ago but I can't remember nor find the fix
08:16<TrueBrain>we never fixed it
08:16<dih>hey ho TrueBrain
08:16<Yexo>oh
08:18<TrueBrain>Yexo: I have a nice patch for vhost support in SVN
08:18<TrueBrain>just never go to it to apply that on the NoAI stuff
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08:27<dih>svn vhost support?
08:28<dih>now that is getting interesting :-)
08:28<TrueBrain>the patch is a few years old
08:28<TrueBrain>subversion refuses to support it for unknown reasons
08:28<TrueBrain>all required data is send to the server ..
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08:36<blathijs>TrueBrain: In the svn:// protocol? Or the http:// protocol?
08:37<TrueBrain>svn://
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08:37<TrueBrain>we have been running it on opendune.org/libemu.org for a while now
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08:46<+glx>nice my client doesn't convert the : / / to emotes for http:// but it does for svn: / /
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>you can configure the smilies somewhere
08:48<+glx>probably yes
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08:56<@peter1138>my client doesn't
08:56<@peter1138>but then it's irssi
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09:17<jordi>bwahaha! openttd is on its way to be moved from non-free to main in Debian
09:18<jordi>blathijs: opengfx uploaded now
09:18<jordi>see you on Sunday probably
09:19<blathijs>jordi: Cool :-D
09:19<dih>\o/
09:21<fonsinchen>Let's hope that no one tells them how OpenTTD originally came to be ...
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09:34<blathijs>fonsinchen: That discussion has already been done, and it's in contrib right now (meaning its free itself, but depends on non-free stuff)
09:37<Ammler>blathijs: how do you handle the sound? Add nosound?
09:38<Ammler>on the other side, debian main repo isn't useable alone anyway...
09:38<blathijs>Ammler: nosound is included with openttd
09:38<Ammler>no kde there :-)
09:38<blathijs>Ammler: And opensfx is in non-free
09:38<blathijs>Eh? Is KDE not in main?
09:38<Ammler>is it?
09:38<blathijs>Dunno, I prefer not to touch either KDE or GNOME :-)
09:38<blathijs>But why wouldn't it be?
09:38<Ammler>just someone told, he can't build for KDE because of that.
09:40<blathijs>According to packages.debian.org, the kde packages are in main
09:41<Ammler>"There is no support for Debian, since the OBS has only Debian releases and none of those is capable of building KDE4 apps."
09:42<Ammler>maybe a release is not like main repo?
09:43<Rhamphoryncus>why is opensfx in non-free?
09:44<+glx>non GNU I guess
09:44<Ammler>because of the CC license
09:44<Rhamphoryncus>ah
09:44<Ammler>the "source" isn't free
09:45<blathijs>More specifically, because of the CC _sampling plus_ license, which is very limiting
09:45<blathijs>Some of the CC license are ok for Debian
09:45<blathijs>s/license/licenses/
09:46<blathijs>Ammler: I think OBS refers to the OpenSuSe Build Service there? If so, I don't understand the sentence :-)
09:46<Ammler>blathijs: yes
09:46<blathijs>Or perhaps that's saying it only has stable releases
09:47<blathijs>which can't built _current_ KDE4 apps or something
09:47<Ammler>you can build debian apps on obs too
09:47<Ammler>the obs became something like default build farm for KDE4
09:48<Ammler>there are also some rumor, they add windows and mac :-)
09:54<fonsinchen>BTW: I'm just profiling openttd and those consistency checks for cargolists in openttd.cpp around lines 1180 to 1200 take about 5% of the CPU time.
09:54<fonsinchen>Maybe there should be an option to switch them off.
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10:17<Laurenn>http://i33.tinypic.ath.cx/D1268406669.jpg/ do my breasts look to big?
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10:20<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we should make a dictionary-ban on all girl's names :p
10:20<planetmaker>I doubt that Laurenn is a valid name
10:21<planetmaker>nor sahrazzz
10:21<Ammler>but why not add a "content"filter
10:21<Prof_Frink>A norkfilter?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>no, but the prefix is, planetmaker...
10:22<+glx>arg they changed the message
10:23<Ammler>add ".jpg/"
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, all people posting jpegs should be banned anyway :p
10:23<Ammler>hehe
10:24<Ammler>specially, if the jpg is directory
10:24<planetmaker>and then argue with joseph maria why he gets banned ;-)
10:25<planetmaker>or andrea ;-)
10:25<Pikka>or Brianetta? :P
10:25<planetmaker>tehehe
10:27<+glx>let's try .jpg/ do my * big
10:28<+glx>any volunteer ?
10:29<planetmaker>look, ./jpg/ do my images suck big time?
10:29<dih>anyone here from bulgaria?
10:29<planetmaker>look, .jpg/ do my images suck big time?
10:30<+glx>it worked :)
10:30<planetmaker>?
10:30<planetmaker>oh, I expected a ban ;-)
10:30<dih>:-D
10:30<+glx>[16:29:53] <DorpsGek> The operation succeeded.
10:31<+glx>but somehow it failed it seems
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10:31<planetmaker> @ban maybe instead of @kban ?
10:31<+glx>[16:29:53] [PRIVMSG >>> DorpsGek]: ban add #openttd planetmaker!*@*
10:31<dih>a @ban and then @kick
10:31<dih>hehe :-P
10:31<+glx>@ban add #openttd planetmaker!*@*
10:31<@DorpsGek>glx: The operation succeeded.
10:31<planetmaker>he :-P So only banned, thus I cannot return ;-)
10:32<planetmaker>you want to use kban
10:32<+glx>there's a bug
10:32<planetmaker>ban doesn't kick
10:32<dih>@ban list
10:32<dih>@banlist
10:32<dih>grr
10:32<+glx>kban fails if the user is not connected
10:32<planetmaker>ah
10:32<+glx>and the spambot tends to hit and run
10:33<planetmaker>you could unban me though ;-)
10:33<dih>yeah - that makes a ban very clever :-P
10:33<+glx>@ban add #openttd "planetmaker!*@*"
10:33<@DorpsGek>glx: The operation succeeded.
10:33<+glx>@whoami
10:33<@DorpsGek>glx: glx
10:33<dih>planetmaker is not in the banlist mentioned with /ban
10:33<+glx>all conditions met
10:33<dih>perhaps DorpsGek has a own banlist?
10:34<planetmaker>let's see whether I can return.
10:34-!-planetmaker [~pm@vs241204.vserver.de] has left #openttd [... und tschüß!]
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10:34<planetmaker>yes
10:34<dih>:-P
10:34<+glx>if the ban worked you could not talk :)
10:34<dih>...?
10:34<planetmaker>:-) laber rharbarber
10:34<dih>:-D
10:35<+glx>@ban planetmaker
10:35<dih>ban != +q
10:35<+glx>@ban add planetmaker
10:35<@DorpsGek>glx: The operation succeeded.
10:35<+glx>the plugin is broken I'd say
10:35<Ammler>@mode +q
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>dih: active ban also prevents speaking like +q
10:35-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
10:35<dih>ah - interesting
10:35-!-mode/#openttd [+b planetmaker!*@*] by glx
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>but DorpsGek doesn't actually set the ban
10:36<@glx>try saying something now :)
10:36<dih>hihi - ladida
10:36<dih>:-P
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>dih: unless the person also has voice or higher
10:36<dih>ah - that would have been it then
10:36-!-mode/#openttd [-b planetmaker!*@*] by glx
10:36<dih>awe....
10:36-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
10:39<+glx>oh it has it's own ban list indeed
10:39<+glx>@ban list
10:39<@DorpsGek>glx: "planetmaker!*@*" (never expires) and "planetmaker!~pm@vs241204.vserver.de" (never expires)
10:39<dih>might be similar to @ignore
10:40<+glx>probably yes
10:40<dih>so in theory you would need Dorpsgeck to talk to chanserv
10:40<Ammler>would be nice to have something, which automatically bans on every channel the bot is in
10:41<dih>so the @say <user> <message>
10:41<Ammler>something like @globalban :-)
10:41<dih>:-P
10:41-!-mode/#openttd [+b planetmaker!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:42<dih>exactly
10:42-!-mode/#openttd [-b planetmaker!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:42<+glx>just use @mode ;)
10:42<dih>lol :-D
10:42-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0045.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:43<+glx>script fixed
10:43<enr1x>oh, can anyone give me a tip to carry goods? i have goods from oil refineries and saw mills. Where do I have to carry them? to several lorry stations in the centre of the city?
10:43<planetmaker>look, .jpg/ do my photos suck big time?
10:43-!-mode/#openttd [+b planetmaker!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:43<+glx>to a town big enough to accept them
10:43-!-mode/#openttd [-b planetmaker!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:43<planetmaker>ty :-)
10:43-!-DanMacK [~here@bas8-london14-1242517608.dsl.bell.ca] has quit []
10:43<planetmaker>yes, quiet works
10:44<dih>planetmaker: if you type that in backwards, it might unban you
10:44<dih>:-P
10:44<+glx>my client won't get it ;)
10:44<dih>private message :-P
10:44<dih>hehe
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10:48-!-mode/#openttd [+m] by DorpsGek
10:48-!-mode/#openttd [-m] by DorpsGek
10:50-!-mode/#openttd [+vv dih planetmaker] by DorpsGek
10:50-!-mode/#openttd [-vv dih planetmaker] by DorpsGek
10:51<+glx>ok my !mode command seems to work
10:58<@peter1138>me @ seems to work
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11:30<OwenS>orudge: "University of St Andrews F300 20-Sep-2010 Unsuccessful" :-(
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11:47<@peter1138>harr harr
11:47<@peter1138>you'll have to go somewhere shitty instead
11:47<@peter1138>like camford or oxbridge
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11:50<Eddi|zuHause>why does that have to be so complicated?
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>here in germany i just went to the immatriculation office and said "hey, here i am, i want to study"
11:51<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Here you go to UCAS and say "I want to go to *these* universities"
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>only for very special courses like medicine or hopelessly overrun courses like economics you have to actually apply...
11:52<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: So how do you choose whiich universities you want to go to? ;-)
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>"numerus clausus" it's called
11:54-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
11:54<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: And how does it work? ;-)
11:54-!-DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: like i said, for ordinary courses you just enlist at the university you want... for the "numerus clausus" courses you apply at the ZVS and they assign a university to you
11:56*andythenorth is feeling dumb
11:56<andythenorth>cb flags, how do I calculate the value again?
11:56<andythenorth>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Industries#Callback_flags_21_22_
11:56<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: So universities have no choice of students?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>they use some kind of key based on your schoolgrades and waiting time
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>no, why would the university care?
11:57<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Because the university wants the best students
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>that's not how it works ;)
11:58<OwenS>Well, in the UK it is ;-)
11:58<planetmaker>andy: just add it up
11:59<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Also, if you did that in the UK, Oxbridge would get ~95% of the enrollments
11:59*andythenorth is feeling a lack of sleep :|
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, that's the thing, in decentralised germany, no university is that much different than the others
12:00*planetmaker hugs andythenorth
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12:00<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: That doesn't really work when some are ~800 years old...
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>why? my university is 500 years old...
12:01<OwenS>Yes, but we have ~5 which are 500 years old (And the best of those have a positive multiplier effect going on) and the rest are ~50...
12:02<OwenS>They all get the same money per student, and pretty much the same support from the government, but the best remain the best
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>the difference might be that until a few years ago, universities were not allowed to collect enrollment fees from students
12:04<OwenS>Here they weren't either. Now, they all collect the maximum, which tends to get paid for by student loan or grant
12:05<OwenS>The major exception is that there is no limitation on what they can charge non-EU students. So they charge lots
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12:05<Terkhen>hello
12:06<Ammler>Yexo: didn't you fix the sorting of newgrfs?
12:06<Ammler>how does it sort, if the name is the same?
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12:32<andythenorth>don't write nfo if you didn't get any sleep :[
12:33<andythenorth>what have I done wrong? http://paste.openttd.org/225217
12:36<dih>you did not get enough sleep :-P
12:37<Zuu>Hehe, I got okay with sleep but got pain in my neck instead. :-p
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12:40<enr1x>hey guys i have a problem: my passangers won't leave the train: they come from a transfer station, they go to the city, but will stay in the train :P
12:41<Zuu>Vanilia OpenTTD or CargoDist?
12:41<Zuu>What orders have you given for the city railway station?
12:42<Zuu>Does the railway station accept passengers?
12:43<dih>hehehe - it's prbably just a waypoint :-D
12:43<enr1x>Zuu: Vanilla OpenTTD, the orders are the default
12:43<enr1x>i don't know, they don't pay double fare :)
12:44<enr1x>i have a screenshot at http://enricus.info/
12:44<enr1x>it's called Sant Julia $whatever $date
12:44<enr1x>i want to unload the passengers from the exchange station, then unload the goods, and load the passengers to bring them to the exchange station
12:45<dih>unload and laod?
12:45<dih>und load and load any?
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>enr1x: you can't transfer people two ways
12:46<Zuu>Take a look on what the wiki says about transfer systems.
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>enr1x: you will make people go back where they came from, and of course they won't unload there
12:46<enr1x>Zuu: i will
12:46<Zuu>It is quite good at outlining what is possible and what is not.
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>enr1x: the only thing that makes sense is "transfer and no loading"
12:46<Zuu>IIRC there is both the page about transfer orders and another page about feeder systems.
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12:49<enr1x>can you take a look at this screenshot? http://enricus.info/Sant%20Juli%c3%a0%20de%20Bellroig%20d'Ebre%20Transport,%2027th%20Mar%201958.png i want to take the passengers from Reus to La Bisbal d'Emporda and viceversa via the La Bisbal Transfer station, it's that "viceversa" what i cannot do, right?
12:49-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>yes, exactly
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>only one way
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>unless you make two transfer stations
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12:52<Zuu>one for passengers in one direction and the other for passengers in the other direction.
12:52<enr1x>Eddi|zuHause: or two different trains?
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, that won't work either
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>the station is the problem, not the train
12:52<Zuu>Two different trains wil not make sure that the passengers go back again to their source.
12:52<enr1x>oh i see
12:53<Zuu>Its like an airport, dont mix passengers of differnt types.
12:53<enr1x>but then why the people crowd the stations if the train won't accept them?
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>you got that backwards. the people pile up at the station because the train is already full
12:54<frosch123>andythenorth: 7C \dx01 <- no \dx there
12:55*OwenS wonders if his langauge's sqrt should return a Complex if you root a negative :p
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>the train visits the station, so the rating is ok, but they can't leave the station by train, so they wait
12:56<enr1x>Eddi|zuHause: ok, what i am doing now is get the people from the southernmost station, transfer them in the middle, and unloading them at the northernmost, now i should take that 1.3K+ people somewhere, right?
12:56<enr1x>the 1.3K+ people are the ones who pile up after seeing the beautiful train leave without them
12:56<Zuu>OwenS: Reminds me of a traffic simulation lab when we got complex value results for the densities of the different sections of the highway.
12:57<OwenS>Zuu: lol. TBH, getting a Complex is probably less unexpected than getting a NaN
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>enr1x: my suggestion is: don't transfer the passengers at all, or try cargodist (find it in the forum)
12:57<Zuu>Or take a look at PAXLink for an example when transfering could be worked in current OpenTTD.
12:58<enr1x>or, perhaps better, then, is with a single train do everything?
12:58-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF852A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:58<Zuu>(PAXLink is an AI)
12:58<Zuu>In most cases a single train is better, much easier to manage your transport system with direct trains.
12:59<enr1x>Zuu: great!
12:59<enr1x>i will try without PAXlink, then i might even increase my profits :)
13:00<Zuu>Do you play with it now?
13:00<OwenS>Zuu: Hmm. Perhaps I should rename "Float" to "Real", so I have the types Integer, Real and Complex :p
13:00<Zuu>Sounds Forthan but should be okay.
13:01<Zuu>Not sure if Forthan had Complex, but IIRC their floats are named real.
13:01<OwenS>As it's a dynamically tyepd scripting language, you'll probably only rarely do something like "if a isa Real" :P
13:01<enr1x>Zuu: not, later i might try PAXLink
13:01<enr1x>that will improve the people handling, right?
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13:02<Zuu>PAXLink is an AI which will be a competetor in your games. You can use it as inspiration for feeder systems if you like.
13:02<Zuu>Its not a patch.
13:02<Zuu>You find it on BaNaNaS aka the content download button/window in OpenTTD.
13:05<Alberth>enr1x: http://wiki.openttd.org/Two-way_feeder_service in case nobody mentioned that yet
13:05<enr1x>Alberth: will take a look at it
13:06<enr1x>thank you everybody for the great help!
13:12<enr1x>Alberth: that's exactly what i needed to read
13:13<Alberth>yw :)
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13:18<fonsinchen>You might want to try cargodist. The problem you have is the reason why I started it.
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13:23<enr1x>fonsinchen: i'll take a look at it, but i should improve my openttd skills first, i just started playing with it three days ago and love it so far
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13:32<enr1x>i have another question: how should i deal with more than eight hundred people waiting at a station if i have like seven buses doing a circular line?
13:33<dih>get rid of them
13:33<dih>one way or another
13:33<dih>trains? trams? planes?
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... rubidium was a few seconds faster...
13:35<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks
13:35<Zuu>more buses, better drop/pickup station with enhanced capacity.
13:36<enr1x>ok
13:36<Zuu>Or if it is in a feeder system you can adopt other parts of the chain to get a balanced system.
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause>in a recent game i had like 30 trams on one line to get all the passengers transported
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19390 /trunk/src/lang/ (bulgarian.txt portuguese.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 53 changes by yxomo
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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14:10<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: germanrv?
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: no, egrvts in that case
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14:11<Ammler>germanrv cap seems quite low to me
14:12<Ammler>specially cargo, dunno about pax anymore
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14:14<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i said that, but Uwe isn't listening to me...
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>passengers are ok, i think
14:16<@Rubidium>nice job jordi :) Now lets hope that ftp-master doesn't complain about grfcodec not being in the repository for opengfx
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>at least larger than trains :)
14:17<Ammler>yeah, I complained in the German forums about already too. Hmm, so it needs some more to get him to rise it ;-)
14:18<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19391 /trunk/src/gamelog.cpp: -Fix (r19255): shuffling around GRFIdentifier in GRFConfig caused gamelog to log the wrong data which could cause crashes later on when that data is queried
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14:23<OwenS>Grr. How can I be spending 11.4% of CPU time in push()? And even more impressive, 6.74% in st (Which should be little more than x[size - idx - 1] ...)
14:24<enr1x>bones, jordi :)
14:25<Chris_Booth>eevening all
14:26<blathijs>Rubidium: That shouldn't be a problem, the buildd architecture should take care of that (something with status BD-uninstallable or something)
14:26<blathijs>Rubidium: Also, grfcodec has been uploaded again, so that shouldn't take so long this time
14:27<@Rubidium>blathijs: I know that, just thinking about the hypothetical case where the person reviewing it sees grfcodec and can't find it in the repository :)
14:28<@Rubidium>but I reckon that's quite a common use case
14:30<blathijs>Rubidium: I hope they can get to it within the next couple of days, so I can add the dependencies to RC3, though
14:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19392 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Increase the maximum size of a TileArea.
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14:49*andythenorth could do with a way to force industries to update their varaction 2 chains when reloading a grf :(
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean "update"?
14:54<andythenorth>when testing industry code, if the varaction 2 chain is changed, it's necessary to start a new game to test the chain. That is a right pain
14:54<andythenorth>ditto action 0 props
14:55<andythenorth>if anyone can tell me I'm *definitely* wrong, they'd deserve some kind of medal
14:55<andythenorth>currently I'm wasting so much time :(
14:55<SmatZ>you are wrong, andythenorth
14:55<SmatZ>now, the medal please
14:56<andythenorth>SmatZ: a year of coding FIRS makes me disagree with you :P
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>varaction 2 chains are not stored in the savegame, they have to be rerun when the GRF is loaded
14:56<andythenorth>what about action 0 props?
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>the majority of those are probably stored
14:57<@peter1138>ope
14:57<@peter1138>+n
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, depends on the feature, i believe
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>many engine properties like capacities are stored in the vehicle
14:58<@peter1138>yeah, capacity is variable
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15:30<andythenorth>"Production may increase if engineering supplies are delivered monthly."
15:30<andythenorth>What does that mean to you guys?
15:30<Alberth>pretty much what it says
15:31<Alberth>anything particular you are worried about?
15:31<Terkhen>there is a chance of a production increase if engineering supplies are delivered, but I don't know what will happen if I don't deliver them
15:31<andythenorth>just trying to find the shortest words
15:32<Alberth>just 'delivered' would be enough I think (ie remove 'monthly')
15:32<@Rubidium>now reading the non-obvious: production may increase if engineering supplies are not delivered; it only tells a -> b, not ~a -> ~b
15:33<andythenorth>Rubidium: yes quite right
15:33<@Rubidium>"Steady supply of engineering supplies needed to improve production"
15:34<Alberth>nice
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>could leave out "Steady"
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>and even "supply of"
15:38<andythenorth>"Engineering supplies may increase production"
15:38<andythenorth>is about as short as I can make it I reckon :)
15:38<andythenorth>the amount needed is at least 1 crate per month (for a 1 in 4 chance of an increase)
15:38<andythenorth>I could show the amount delivered, but does it matter?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>if it has a stockpile limit, you can say "Stored: 10 (max 15)" or something
15:40<frosch123>it was added for snowy and deserty towns because users asked annoyingly :)
15:40<andythenorth>I've removed the stockpile limits :)
15:40<andythenorth>I do like it being in desert towns
15:40<andythenorth>I'll try it...
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>but if you have a stockpile, you can have it run out slowly, like processing 1 item per month
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>or 8 items per month
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>then you can see how long it takes to run out
15:41<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I have that code more or less....but it kind of doesn't work in gameplay. Will take too long to explain!
15:41<andythenorth>I am trying a new variation
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>spreading engineering supplies (or vehicles in ECS) might be easier with cargodist
15:43<andythenorth>I find it an interesting cargo because (A) over time, it's a guaranteed way to boost primary production (B) it needs a *lot* of small deliveries
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>so you have to enforce a delivery every month now, can't stockpile it
15:46<andythenorth>the stockpile would clear every month anyway
15:46<frosch123>if i understood ecs correctly it stockpiles all vehicles, the stockpiled amount improves production (all vehicles are in use), and a certain percentage of them breaks down every month
15:46<andythenorth>hmm
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like too much micromanagement
15:47<frosch123>so the production boost decreases exponentially :p
15:47<andythenorth>in the new FIRS code I just check at the end of each month whether any engineering supplies were delivered that month. If 'yes', then it's 1 in 4 chance of a boost
15:47<andythenorth>it's simple :)
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>every time i try ECS, it sounds way too overengineered
15:48<andythenorth>lets see if I broke my lovely save game :|
15:49<George>frosch123: Not correct. If there is at least 1 vehicle waiting, production is x2. Periodicaly (depends on current production level), amount of vehicles decreases (it is broken ;)
15:50<George>stockpile is limited - 1000-2000 vehicles depending on industry
15:50<andythenorth>George: cunning ;)
15:50<George>Yes, it is a micromanagement
15:52<George>but it makes a player to think about his chains :roll:
15:52<George>Anyway, you can not use any vehicles, main chains would work as well
15:53<George>Vehicles only increase production
15:53<George>Fertilisers are not the same
15:55<Jolteon>offs.
15:55<Jolteon>OpenTTD has a sense of humour
15:55<George>but the concept is the same
15:55<Jolteon>built the start of a network, left it for some years, come back, and it's placed a factory at the end of the trains tracks
15:55<Jolteon>now I need to build around it
15:55<Jolteon>ffs
16:00*andythenorth has a suggestion for '2.0'
16:00<andythenorth>smoke for RVs and ships :P
16:05<Jolteon>Ships & RVs generally don't make much smoke.
16:05<Jolteon>Well, ships sometimes give off alot of steam.
16:05<Jolteon>but RVs only give off steam/smoke if their engine is about to give in.
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16:06<andythenorth>Jolteon: umm. no in both cases
16:06<Jolteon>Umm, yes in both cases.
16:06<Jolteon>If your vehicle is giving off a noticable amount of smoke, you need to get it to a mechanic, fast.
16:07<andythenorth>Jolteon: if your steam ship is*not* giving off much smoke, you need to get some fuel in it quick ;)
16:07<Jolteon>Vehicles should only produce steam, and it should only be largely noticable on cold mornings.
16:07<Jolteon>If it produces smoke, you're about to blow up your engine.
16:08<andythenorth>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dULvEaSI5WQ&feature=related
16:08<andythenorth>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0AcIuUVUCg&feature=related
16:09<Jolteon>Thats a tractor
16:09<Jolteon>and a very old looking one.
16:09<Jolteon>and the other is a digger.
16:09<Jolteon>Both of which have powerful engines so do.
16:09<Jolteon>You did not specify large heavy operating machines
16:10<Jolteon>Therefore I presumed you meant buses and such.
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19393 /branches/1.0/src/ (13 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: One could not level the whole map anymore at once (r19392)
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Only show the 'No AIs available' error message when explicitly changing the number of AI opponents [FS3676] (r19389)
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] When reloading a savegame, an AI failing to compile could trigger
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: (trying) to read the not yet loaded information of another AI via the AI Debug
16:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: window and its "open with the most recently used AI" feature [FS#3666] (r19388)
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16:21<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19394 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Update: base set translations for Afrikaans, Danish, Estonian, Greek, Romanian and Serbian.
16:22<andythenorth>ha ha, my change to production boost works :)
16:23<Terkhen>:)
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16:25<andythenorth>delivering monthly supplies to primary industry - makes small vehicles worthwhile :) Helicopters, small trucks, small planes etc
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16:50<dih>tada
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17:04<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:06<Chrill>hai Nite_Owl
17:07<Nite_Owl>Already done in another channel
17:07<Nite_Owl>my return Hello that is
17:13-!-vargadanis [~vargadani@catv-89-135-19-127.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd
17:13<vargadanis>OMG! I wouldn't have tought that openttd has such big community! O_o
17:13*vargadanis is here for the first time
17:13<Nite_Owl>Welcome
17:13<vargadanis>thx :)
17:14<vargadanis>soo... noobie questions.. how do I clear the tracks if a train accident happened? O_o
17:14<__ln__>by waiting
17:15<vargadanis>haha lol ok
17:15<vargadanis>should have tought of that
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17:15<vargadanis>one more... is there maybe some good description with examples on how the traffic lights on train tracks work and why? O_o kinda confused by them
17:16<@Rubidium>vargadanis: http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/
17:16<vargadanis>are you serious? O_o wow book on tracks for ttd
17:17<vargadanis>ohh ehh.. not an actual book lol making a fool of myself here :)
17:17<Nite_Owl>the OpenTTD wiki is also good
17:18<Nite_Owl>http://wiki.openttd.org/Main_Page
17:18<Nite_Owl>and search for signals
17:20<Nite_Owl>pay particular attention to 'path signals' as they are the most useful
17:22<vargadanis>Nite_Owl, well I was kinda confused by the description on the wiki page...
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17:23<Nite_Owl>experimentation works wonders
17:24<Nite_Owl>start a game you never intend to really play out and just fiddle with signals and sending lots of trains through them
17:25<Nite_Owl>the main thing with path signals is to remember to only place them were it is safe for a train to stop without blocking other trains
17:26<vargadanis>yup
17:27<vargadanis>i tend to cause mass blockades :)
17:27<Nite_Owl>in other words never place them at the direct exit of a junction - always leave enough space for the train length to clear the junction
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17:58<vargadanis>is there maybe a higher resolution tile set for openttd? I think - but might be mistaken - 8bpp tiles by default, right?
17:58<Yexo>8bpp/32bpp has nothing to do with the resolution
17:58<Yexo>there is a patch on the forum that adds 2 extra zoom-in levels
18:03<vargadanis>is it than the color depth that is used in the game?
18:05*dih is trying to query all servers in one go with OpenTTDLib :-P
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19:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: Yexo * r19395 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp ai/ai_gui.hpp saveload/afterload.cpp): -Fix [FS#3669]: the AI Debug window didn't open if an AI or library fails to compile when loading a savegame
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20:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19396 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3690] (r19351): trying to remove a too large rail station rect caused crashes
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 13 00:00:08 2010