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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-14

---Logopened Sun Mar 14 00:00:10 2010
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05:44<andythenorth>@seen pikka
05:44<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 23 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Pikka> hrrrrrrrrrrr
05:45<andythenorth>grr
05:45<andythenorth>I need more refits for AV8 :|
05:49*andythenorth hey, pikka just replied to my forum thread. must be telepathic
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05:57<Terkhen>good morning
06:00<planetmaker>morning Terkhen
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06:04<andythenorth>morning
06:09<frosch123>hmm, indeed "morning", what am i doing here that early?
06:09<jordi>Rubidium: I don't think that (grfcodec not being in archive) would be a reason to reject opengfx. I bet their scripts actually check for deps in the new queue
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06:09<jordi>Rubidium: I think it's common practice
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06:12<andythenorth>planeset good, AV8 better :)
06:27*andythenorth is very excited by the idea of new airports
06:28*andythenorth wonders if industry funding cost be calculated depending on player's available money?
06:32<@Rubidium>andythenorth: it isn't
06:33<andythenorth>sorry, 'could it be?' /s
06:34*Alberth orders a factory with golden stairs, and a large main port with diamonds from andythenorth
06:35<andythenorth>Alberth: does the palette have a 'sparkle' cycle?
06:35<Alberth>it'd look electrifying, wouldn't it?
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06:39<planetmaker>lool @ Alberth's order
06:41-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
06:43<Alberth>and I don't even own the factory :(
06:56*planetmaker gulps. Nooo! really?!
06:57<planetmaker>(pun intended)
06:59*Alberth places the factory right across his head quarters for a good view
07:00*Alberth considers changing jobs
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07:05<roboboy>hello
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07:10<Alberth>hello
07:10<Pikka>bonjour
07:11<__ln__>yakshemash
07:11-!-lestat [~Mesias7.4@141.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
07:12<lestat>hi all
07:12<Alberth>hi
07:13<andythenorth>Pikka: hi hi
07:15<lestat>I created a game who joins?
07:16<Terkhen>andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/firs/ <-- this happens after the first month, I'm testing FIRS r611
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07:16<lestat>87.220.149.141:40000
07:17<andythenorth>Terkhen: I get that too
07:17<andythenorth>something must be missing from the water plant
07:17<andythenorth>does it happen for any other industries?
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07:17<Gorillagram>well that's torn it...
07:17<Terkhen>not that I noticed, let me check
07:17<andythenorth>Terkhen: actually do you mean the stupid production, or the missing string?
07:17<Terkhen>the production
07:18<andythenorth>ok, that's a known issue :|
07:18<andythenorth>it's a bug of the 'unfinished' kind
07:18*andythenorth needs to think about how water is handled in FIRS
07:19<Terkhen>oh, okay :)
07:19<Zuu>lestat: What differs your game from all other servers?
07:20<andythenorth>Water Plants....should they produce 'food' (water packed in bottles?) I think not.
07:20<Terkhen>I find that strange too
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07:20<andythenorth>when planning FIRS we thought they might produce food for some reason.
07:20<andythenorth>could be so they could appear in other climate
07:21<andythenorth>s
07:21<lestat>NewGRFs
07:22*andythenorth wonders if water plants are like fishing harbours....and should therefore accept both engineering supplies and manufacturing supplies
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07:25<andythenorth>RL vs gameplay: water can be shipped in bottles ('manufacturing supplies'). But who really cares?
07:26<andythenorth>^ nobody apparently :P
07:27<@Rubidium>andythenorth: then call them recyclable bottles and ship them from towns back to the industry
07:27<@Rubidium>plus an industry that makes those bottles
07:27<andythenorth>waste -> recycling plant -> manufacturing supplies?
07:27<andythenorth>that was the plan, until I culled waste as a boring cargo
07:27<@Rubidium>it probably is
07:27<andythenorth>bottles come from the glass plant and plastic plant initially
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07:28*andythenorth afk
07:30<Alberth>andythenorth: waste is different in the sense that it is opposite in direction compared with mine -> factory -> ... -> factory -> city
07:34<Alberth>adding some old old steel with the ore to produce steel has benefits: "..has drastically reduced energy and material requirements compared with refinement from iron ore" (wikipedia)
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07:55<Singaporekid>Scout should have bonk and sticky launcher to take out sentries in the event of failteams
07:56<Pikka>good point
08:03<Singaporekid>Hmm, can't fire while invulnerable though
08:04<Singaporekid>Maybe demomon should have bonk instead so he can scores taunt while invulnerable
08:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19413 /trunk/src/rail.h: -Codechange: Merging RailtypeFlag enum (a bit number) with RailTypeFlags enum (had values only).
08:05<Alberth>Singaporekid: we are supposed to understand what you say?
08:05<Singaporekid>Only on weekdays
08:05<Alberth>phew
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08:39<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19414 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Doc: Several doxygen additions and corrections.
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08:57<Pikka>o
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>why does that nick always remind me of Skittles?
08:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19415 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Forward CommandCost with an error back to the caller.
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09:04<Scuddles>Why doesn't it?
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09:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19416 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Code style, move variable declarations to their first use.
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09:58<andythenorth>Terkhen: I've fixed the FIRS water plant. Should show up in nightly later today. Won't be save game compatible though!
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10:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19417 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: More code style, move variable declarations to their first use.
10:02<Zuu>Lol, my new water boiler "This product must not be used by anyone (ncluding children) suffering from physical or mental impairment". Luckily hearing impairment is not covered by that so I'm allowed to use the product. :-)
10:04<OwenS>Zuu: Hearing is not a physical impairment? :p
10:04<Zuu>As far as I'm aware it does usually not fall under that category.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose the majority of people here have mental impairment :p
10:05<Zuu>Otherwise I'd love to park at the special parking lots etc. :-p
10:06<andythenorth>frosch123 / anyone industry cb 3D, does that reliably run every time cargo arrives at an industry? I have a case where I don't want to use production cb, but I do want to do something when cargo arrives....
10:08<frosch123>it is run everytime cargo is delivered, but be careful, it is called more than once. e.g. once per vehicle and gradual loading step or even more often
10:09<frosch123>the production callback otoh is called only once, which is likely different from ttdp
10:09<frosch123>s/per vehicle/per wagon resp. articulated part/
10:09<andythenorth>I have working code based on the production cb, but in the industry window, I have no use for the 'cargo waiting to be processed' string (in this specific case)
10:10<andythenorth>It's not a big deal, just a nice tweak for players
10:10<andythenorth>I might not bother
10:10<frosch123>however the number and time of calls is not set in stone and might change
10:11<andythenorth>hmmm....in that case my production cb code might produce wrong results in some situations. I hope I've covered that though.
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10:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19418 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Code style fix for ValParamTrackOrientation().
10:37<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19419 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_object.cpp bridge_gui.cpp command.cpp): -Codechange: Use failed CommandCost object to retrieve message instead of _error_message.
10:41<Terkhen>andythenorth: thanks :)
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11:14<Chrill>Any norwegians here?
11:18<fonsinchen>May I request an empty operator=, copy-constructor and default constructor for PoolItem?
11:19<fonsinchen>like this: http://paste.openttd.org/225256
11:21<fonsinchen>Shall I make that a bug report? You cannot copy-construct or assign any pooled objects. I think that's bad ...
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11:30<planetmaker>Alberth, I don't assume that any windows binary uses SDL.
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>why? if it's possible to configure, so why are you certain that not even 0.0001% of the windows users do that?
11:33<planetmaker>one could certainly. Looks like it is as recommended as on OSX then ;-)
11:33<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47480&start=40
11:35<andythenorth>waste is boring cargo....just loads of trucks moving around town. But hey an AI could do that right?
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>that "32 colour" screenshot looks almost like the mars climate :p
11:36<Alberth>planetmaker: it just shows how much I know about Windows :p
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's funny, the image is 1600x1200 but the resolution says 1920x1200
11:38<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: it cannot be difficult to make a 'Mars' advanced setting then :)
11:42<andythenorth>there ought to be a secondhand market in vehicles.
11:42<andythenorth>after the model is no longer available new, it should remain available at a seriously depreciated price (reliability is probably already covered for that).
11:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19420 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Don't use _error_message to keep track of success/failure, use a had_success boolean.
11:43<Alberth>with high running costs :)
11:43<andythenorth>Alberth: pikka already has that bit covered with NARS 2
11:44<andythenorth>it can all be done in newgrf I guess
11:45<andythenorth>if the game showed 'purchased' date instead of 'build' date that would be handy
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11:46<Alberth>doesn't that look funny for a train engine?
11:46<andythenorth>dunno. US railroads are often trading engines. Short lines use a lot of old engines, some are 50 years old
11:47<Alberth>you only know that because they state the build date
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>these US guys apparently didn't understand the concept of electrification...
11:48<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: isn't it mostly freight? I never see an American movie with a train, only with planes or buses
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>in Dogma they use the train :)
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the americans totally screwed up their passenger train service...
11:50<andythenorth>:| pikka forbids me cattle cars after a certain date
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11:50*andythenorth considers coding an add on for NARS 2
11:51*andythenorth considers flying cattle
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, livestock transport also bothers me in DBSet
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>because the fastest livestock transport is 100km/h, while all other cargo gets a 120km/h wagon
11:54*andythenorth considers building a highway
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12:07<Zuu>Is there someone who is good at windows command prompt escaping? As far as I understood if I enclose a parameter in " and replace all " with "" in the parameter string itself it should be safe? As in whatever the parameter string is, it can't be used to execute abritary commands?
12:09<Zuu>I have noticed that including ; or && in the password parameter could break OpenTTD reading of the password parameter, but will not let you execute any commands as long as you ar forbidden to insert single ".
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12:26<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Livestock isn't transported by DB any more. So there are no real modern livestock wagons.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: i know the argument, but it harms gameplay
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>it's "too realistic" :)
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>what do i do with a "D.img" [4GB] and a "D2.img" [16GB]?
12:29<fonsinchen>Yay! Now my autogrowing goods entry vector is finally faster than the array
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>it looks like D is a prefix of D2
12:29<fonsinchen>... by 6 seconds in 12 minutes ... :|
12:30<planetmaker>lol @ fonsinchen :-)
12:30<planetmaker>Think of it in terms of green IT: you save power :-)
12:30<fonsinchen>However, it also saves space
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, not really
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>first difference is Byte 193720361
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12:31<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Modern trucks (eGRVS) are a ggod replacement for trains (even is livestock on eGRVS vehicles looks funny).
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: but "TTD is een Isenbahnspeel."
12:33<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Stop sounding like MB and get serious again. :-)
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, his arguments can quickly be used against him...
12:33<planetmaker>:-D
12:33<fjb>Just don't discuss with him.
12:35<OwenS>fonsinchen: Did you end up using the likely/unlikely macros?
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12:38<fonsinchen>no, I avoided the length checks where possible and removed one layer of indirection
12:38<fonsinchen>most things only query all existing goods entries
12:39<fonsinchen>thus you can do a for(Bla::Iterator i(begin()); i < end(); ++i)
12:40<fonsinchen>then you are sure you stay within the given length and thus you don't need to override operator* or operator-> of the iterator
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>question: can the upgradecost from railtype 1 to railtype 2 be adjusted by the newgrf?
12:40<planetmaker>not that I know, Eddi|zuHause
12:41<planetmaker>how are they determined, though? Difference in purchase price?
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>because in some cases upgrading might only include the difference of the cost, while in other cases, upgrading includes removing and rebuilding stuff, which makes it almost as ore even more expensive than building new rail
12:43<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19421 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Remove explicit use of _error_message from CmdConvertRail().
12:43<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: the price you "pay" is the hassle with replacing the vehicels ;-)
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>i think Alberth is racist against global variables
12:44<Alberth>only one at a time :)
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i'm specifically aiming at "compatible" railtypes
12:54-!-Nite [5472b1fc@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:54<Nite>Hi
12:55<planetmaker>ho
12:55<Nite>right place and tiem to talk about bugs?
12:55<planetmaker>you could try
12:56<planetmaker>bugs in acrobat distiller go elsewhere, though
12:56<Nite>ottd bugs off cource
12:56<planetmaker>:-)
12:56<Nite>s
12:57<Nite>i have noticed that a "non onway" track which has a path signal at one end and a block at the other will crash trains
12:58<planetmaker>I guess you should show that in either a screenshot and / or a savegame
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12:59<planetmaker>as I have never seen that kind of bug. Also: what version of OpenTTD do you use? (There's no 'latest')
12:59<Nite>could demonstrate it on a 1.0rc2 server ...
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13:00<Nite>if u like
13:00-!-APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd
13:00<Nite>if anyone likes
13:03<Alberth>an explanation + a save game is more useful for bug hunting
13:03<Nite>server is called "strange crash"
13:03-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has joined #openttd
13:04<Nite>demonstration is useful here - 2 phases
13:04<Alberth>I don't know what patches the server is running, I'd prefer a demo in a local unmodified copy
13:04<Nite>no patches
13:04<Nite>1.0.0 rc2
13:05<Alberth>you cannot submit a server to a bug report in FlySpray
13:05<Alberth>neither can a dev run local tests to find the cause
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13:06<Nite>i try to set it up so the trains will cras
13:07<Alberth>ok, submit the save game + explanation how to reproduce to FlySpray please (bugs.openttd.org)
13:07<Nite>i try to
13:08<Nite>crash should happen when unpause the game
13:09<Alberth>just to be at the safe side, do not use any NewGRFs
13:09<Nite>newgrfs are used
13:10<Alberth>then it could also be a bug in the NewGRF :(
13:10<planetmaker>Nite, you can save the game the server is running
13:10<planetmaker>and test whether it works in single player for you.
13:10<planetmaker>If so: then do as Alberth suggested :-)
13:10<Nite>but its 2 trains seperated by 2 signals, so they shouldnt crash
13:11<Alberth>indeed, if they do, it is a bug
13:11<planetmaker>can you maybe make a quick screenshot of the situation and post it somewhere?
13:11<Alberth>we just try to eliminate as much possibilities that we can
13:11<planetmaker>Alberth, not if trains are turned and go backwards through a path signal
13:11<Nite>the server is online - you can take a saave from there
13:11<planetmaker>Nite, I can't.
13:12<planetmaker>You are online. So...
13:12<Nite>you are 2 so
13:12<planetmaker>what's the issue to test locally?
13:12<Alberth>Nite: you can also post at the forum (general openttd probably)
13:12<Nite>ill test it in singleplayer and without newgrfs first
13:12<planetmaker>Nite, I'm connected to IRC. But not to any server nor can I connect to any right now
13:13<planetmaker>It's also fine to report the error with newgrfs. They shouldn't do cause such bugs either.
13:13<Alberth>I don't even have 1.0-RC2 here :)
13:13<planetmaker>Alberth, me neither :-)
13:13<Nite>dl it ;)
13:13<planetmaker>nor elsewhere
13:13<planetmaker>Nite, not for my platform.
13:13<Nite>ic
13:13<Nite>server is online anyway ...
13:14<Nite>testing ...
13:14<Alberth>post of an image would help a lot already
13:16<Nite>on flyspray?
13:16<planetmaker>e.g. use img.openttdcoop.org to quickly upload a screenshot.
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13:16<planetmaker>maybe it's no bug after all.
13:17<Nite>when 2 trains are seperated by 2 signals and both enter the same block it shouldnt happen so its pretty buggish
13:18<Nite>is there someting like "savegame.openttdcoop.org" ;)
13:18<Nite>gotta see it moving
13:19<Nite>at first a train waits at signal but then enters the block at the same time teh non waiting already reserved train enters the block
13:19<Ammler>frosch123: you could add target bundle_zip to the ttdviewer, then we could add it to the newgrf nightly script
13:19<frosch123>you mean an alias for "make release"? or is it different?
13:20<frosch123>btw. are you notified on every push?
13:20<Ammler>yes, on #openttdcoop.devzone
13:20<Nite>target bundle? alias make release ??
13:20<frosch123>:o
13:20<Nite>sry but sounds little gibberish to me
13:20<Ammler>or http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ttdviewer/activity
13:20<planetmaker>Nite, path signals can be passed from the back. You now talked a lot, but showed us nothing :-(
13:21<planetmaker>and both didn't talk to you.
13:22<Nite>you mean oneway path signals?
13:22<Nite>ok where can i post savegame?
13:22<planetmaker>btw, frosch123 there's no target 'make release'... at least in newer makefiles of mine. Dunno right now - did you use mine? Seems improbable given TTDViewer is no newgrf
13:22<Alberth>the general openttd forum?
13:23<Nite>maybeee its not a bug and you yust have to avoid that construction
13:23<Ammler>he didn't
13:23<Nite>it ry to pick teh right place but you tell em numerous places
13:23<frosch123>planetmaker: all targets are made up myself, that is why they are so dodgy :p
13:23<planetmaker>:-)
13:24<Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=29
13:24*planetmaker goes looking how those targets are called
13:24<frosch123>i have some trouble writing a makefile for a compiler that does dependencies itself (or not at all?)
13:25<planetmaker>he, yeah, that sucks.
13:25<planetmaker>I wrote my own dep check for the newgrf makefiles
13:25<planetmaker>doing basically a recursive pattern search on the main source file
13:26<frosch123>i just made "clean" a dependecy of "all" :p
13:26<Alberth>:)
13:27<planetmaker>hm, doesn't sound quite desirable. It means a full re-built every time you make all
13:27<frosch123>it does not really matter, i could have written a shell script just as well
13:27<planetmaker>:-)
13:27<Alberth>that would have the same effect :)
13:32<planetmaker>Nite, ... so... savegame or screenshot?
13:32<Nite>i upload atm at img.openttd.org
13:33<Nite>"fatal error" :(
13:33<PeterT>I didn't know such a domain existed
13:33<planetmaker>Nite, image too large? (<2MB)
13:34<Nite>wrong file type pcx moment ...
13:34<planetmaker>pcx should be fine
13:35<planetmaker>hm, no, sorry
13:35<PeterT>planetmaker: Where are you uploading it to?
13:35<planetmaker>to my server
13:36<PeterT>oh
13:36<planetmaker>it's the same machine as devzone
13:36<PeterT>what is this "img.openttd.org" talk
13:36<planetmaker>that's a mis-spelled server name
13:36<Nite>ups sry the options window is on it
13:37<PeterT>planetmaker: Ah, img.openttdcoop.org then?
13:38<Alberth>afk for some food
13:38<planetmaker>PeterT, yes
13:38<PeterT>ok
13:39<Nite>http://img.openttdcoop.org/?v=strangdld.
13:39<planetmaker>uhm... Nite... ?
13:40<Nite>"Ah, img.openttdcoop.org then?" true
13:40<PeterT>Nite: Image does not exist
13:40-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa94b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:40<PeterT>fonsinchen
13:42<Nite>when i click on the link it does exist
13:42<planetmaker>yes... I notice that...
13:42<Nite>is it there for u now?
13:43<planetmaker>no
13:44<Nite>phew
13:44<planetmaker>http://img.openttdcoop.org/?v=strangdld. <-- the dot is important
13:44<Nite>dl link: http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/strangdld.
13:45<planetmaker>so. where's the problem?
13:45<KenjiE20>pm
13:45<KenjiE20>make sure your url parser is grabbing the .
13:46*KenjiE20 just got it to load
13:46<Nite>so everyone has it exept who?
13:46<KenjiE20>also ew, bmp
13:46<Nite>it gave me the link like this
13:46<Nite>with no file extension strangely
13:46<PeterT>what's the bug?
13:47<planetmaker>Nite, yes, that's only an issue of how our IRC clients grab URLs. But what's your ingame issue now?
13:47<Nite>it is that wehn both trains have loaded fully ...
13:47<Nite>... tehy both grab the left lane
13:48<SpComb^>ew, mixed path signals block signals
13:48<Nite>and also both enter it - the bottom train first waits at the block sig
13:48<Nite>(im aware that when i donot mix them it works
13:48<SpComb^>do they crash?
13:49<Nite>but then enters it when tho upper train enters the "middle section/block"
13:49<Nite>they do crash every time
13:49<planetmaker>hm... I agree they shouldn't.
13:49<KenjiE20>I see what happens
13:49<Nite>(i used only path signals to prevent it)
13:50<planetmaker>I think you should upload the savegame with a bug description at bugs.openttd.org
13:50<Nite>(server "strange crash" is still there)
13:50<KenjiE20>http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/senwelltra.png
13:50<KenjiE20>that probably shows it clearer
13:50<planetmaker>yep
13:51<Nite>that sould cras them - heve you tried it?
13:51<KenjiE20>they have no orders
13:51<planetmaker>oh.
13:51<KenjiE20>so my train went up the other lane
13:51<Nite>give them orders
13:51<KenjiE20>but in theory it could enter the left one
13:51<KenjiE20>since the light is green
13:52<Nite>no the light gets red - train waits - but then enters the block
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13:54<KenjiE20>nope
13:54<KenjiE20>mine stopped on both sides of the red
13:55<Nite>the train at the path sigs goes through
13:55<Nite>from behind noticeable
13:55<KenjiE20>mine are both waiting at the two way red
13:55<Nite>can you go online?
13:55<Nite>ottd ingame online
13:56<planetmaker>Nite: do upload your savegame please.
13:56<KenjiE20>^
13:57<planetmaker>if you're online, just save the stuff and upload it. To tt-forums or bugs.openttd.org
13:57<Nite>not signed up there
13:57<KenjiE20>'worksforme' in RC2
13:58<KenjiE20>I even added a third train and set turbo on to increase the chances, still just sat at reds
13:58<planetmaker>for me it works in r19412
13:58*KenjiE20 bets one train has a SPAD set
13:59<Nite>?
13:59<KenjiE20>signal pass at danger
14:01<KenjiE20>anyway yes, up a save somewhere so we can see
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14:03<Nite>cannot reproduce it new game either - same grfs same rc2
14:03<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47635 <-- that is funny :-)
14:03<Nite>how to set such a spad?
14:04<Nite>classic why has nonone tried it before
14:06<planetmaker>just click on 'ignore' signal and voilà
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14:08<Nite>trains have no ignore signal set ...
14:08<Nite>(no spad)
14:08<Nite>the one at the block sig ignores it by magic ...
14:08<planetmaker>there's no GUI way to say...
14:09<Nite>is any file upload servce ok for save?
14:09<planetmaker>they usually suck big time
14:10<Nite>but work
14:10<planetmaker>for certain definitions of 'work'
14:10<Nite>for small file exchanges
14:10<Nite>but ok which one should i choose?
14:10<planetmaker>bugs.openttd.org :-P
14:11<Nite>register :-ö
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14:22<Zuu>Nite: You'll be able to use that account for many things on openttd.org :-)
14:23<Zuu>wiki, bananas etc.
14:23<planetmaker>translations
14:23<planetmaker>Zuu, does it also work for the NoAI zone?
14:23<Zuu>Nope
14:23<planetmaker>hm :-(
14:23<Zuu>NoAI zone uses a separate system.
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14:34<Nite>http://ul.to/wdnovg
14:35<Nite>savegame to the traincrash above
14:39<Nite>maybee someon ealready signed up can use it ...
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19422 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 61 changes by yxomo
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: esperanto - 1 changes by kristjan
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: estonian - 9 changes by irve
14:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: greek - 37 changes by fumantsu
14:47<frosch123>always the same translators mess it up :p
14:47<SpComb^>PeterT: `make bundle` translates Win64 to x64
14:48<SpComb^>(context: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=864387#p864387 )
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14:50<PeterT>neob begged to diffe3r
14:50<PeterT>-3
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14:55<DanMacK>Hello all
14:56-!-Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-147-226-93.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
14:57<planetmaker>hello DanMacK :-)
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15:00<PeterT>SpComb^: http://paste.openttd.org/225257
15:00-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1DB2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:01<PeterT>SpComb^: http://paste.openttd.org/225258 rather
15:01<SpComb^>TARGET := $(shell echo $(PLATFORM) | sed "s@win64@x64@;s@win32@Win32@")
15:02<SpComb^>perhaps it's win64, I'm not sure if sed's case-insensitive per default
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15:02<PeterT>it is case sensitive
15:07<SpComb^>that should be fixed..
15:08<Nite>*yawns*
15:09<+michi_cc>Nite: that's a known problem when mixing path and block signals that will likely not be fixed. The problem is that determining the red/green state in all cases can be computationally very expensive for larger games.
15:09<andythenorth>anything happening?
15:10<Nite>thx that helps alot
15:10<Nite>so i just avoid mixing these signals
15:11<Nite>then again even in a non mixed track setup it has to "computerize" every state or otherwise trains would crash
15:12<Nite>i dont get why it exeptionally doesent check it in "that" setup - anyway ...
15:13<SpComb^>http://qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/patches/Makefile.msvc-icase.patch
15:13<+michi_cc>only for block signals, and (with the exception of combo signals) normally only up to the next signals. with mixed signals, you can construct a setup where every single track of your network as to be checked fore a train.
15:14<SpComb^>er, wait
15:15<+michi_cc>and for why not in this instance: there are so many different possible combinations that special-casing some is totally impractical
15:15<SpComb^>oh wait, fine, I thought it might have been Win32
15:16<+michi_cc>(and as a side note: setups mixing path signals and one-way block signals are mostly fine, two-sided block signals are the troublesome ones)
15:17<SpComb^>( http://paste.openttd.org/225259 )
15:17<Nite>ok i understand that it can be only a limited number of "next" siganls to process
15:18<Nite>in this case it only is T H E next siganl thats not processed - and thus trains crash and not only get stuck/jammed up ...
15:18<Nite>(ill take care with two way blocksigs)
15:20<Nite>its: "train signal train" and so i was shocked to see the traincrash
15:20<+michi_cc>so we fix this. the next time, someone will complain that it's only the next two signals or that the next signals are both path and block signals or something. it's simply impractical from a code maintenance point of view.
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>rule of thumb: do not mix block and path signals
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15:23<Nite>i now know how to get around it - still a train going into a clearly by signals divided secton where a train already is is strange
15:24<Nite>if a path signal would be also a block signal (= chacking the next block for beein free) this crash wouldnt happen (jsut a thought)
15:24<Nite>trains woudl get stuck and jammed but no crash
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>what?!? the sense of a path signal is exactly that it is NOT a block signal
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15:25<Nite>(chEcking adn beeing *sry*)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>so... copying a 16GB file to an NTFS drive with 16GB free is not going to b fun...
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15:27<Nite>eddi true
15:27<+michi_cc>not really possible because the concept of a signal block simply fails with two-way path signals
15:28<Nite>true true i typed to fast
15:29<Nite>strangely the train wrongly entering the section is behind a two way block ...
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: what about "a train entering through a block signal with a path signal near must reserve a path to a safe waiting point as if it were entering through a path signal"?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>or did i understand the situation the wrong way?
15:30<Nite>just wondering what is the section between a two-way-block and path signal - is it a block section or pat section?
15:30<Nite>have the save?
15:31<+michi_cc>it works like this, but this logic isn't really working with two-sided block signals as these can already be a destination for a reservation
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, i don't download savegames
15:31<Nite>http://ul.to/wdnovg
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: but if this signal is already destination of a reservation, then the train wouldn't be able to reserve a path there, and thus would stop with "waiting for path"?
15:32<Nite>obove you can check the crash
15:32<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i guess rather make block signals check for reserved tracks instead of trains on the tiles
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: what was the part you misunderstood about "i don't download savegames"?
15:32<+michi_cc>this particular problem could probably be fixed by forcing a reserved two-sided block signal to red, but this is not a general solution for every possible situation
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the problem is that the reservation is not in the "block"
15:33<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: probably the "I", "n't", "download" and "savegames"
15:34<Nite>the train shoucld simpyl stay behind the twowayblock
15:34<Nite>its a blcik signal and thus it must not go into the next section where a trian is entering/entered
15:35<Nite>(no eddi i dont understand the word "dont" ;) )
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15:39<Eddi|zuHause>that's fine, because "dont" isn't a word, but "don't" should make a difference :)
15:40<Nite>i don't like ot signup you don't like to download - where would the net be with only ppl like that ...
15:40*SpComb^ admires fonso's `enum SaveLoadVersions`
15:41<SpComb^>something like that should go into trunk
15:41-!-Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:41<SpComb^>I also propose adding an `SLV_NEXT` item to it, and then defining the current saveload version as `SLV_NEXT - 1`
15:42<SpComb^>so `enum SaveLoadVersions { SLV_TRUNK = 140, SLV_NEXT, SLV_MAX = 255 };` or so
15:42<Nite>still i now ask myself how can a train suddenly enter a block that was occupied by allredy processed path an d now gets occupied by the train that uses the path ...
15:43<__ln__>*already
15:43<Nite>thx -l
15:44<frosch123>why are the graphics in the java look&feel repository not part of the default runtime environment :s
15:46-!-TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:46<Nite>i assumed that trains always check the next section weather block or path ...
15:48<Zuu>Oh, nice "bug", currently OTTDAU 2.0.2 users will get 2.0.2 when they update to 2.0.3 :-)
15:48<frosch123>keeps them busy :)
15:49<Zuu>Yep :-p
15:49<Nite>never heard 0ttdau
15:49<Zuu>As they could keep update and update.. but it is not totaly automatic, you get a window that asks you if you want to update or not.
15:49<Zuu>Nite: http://users.tt-forums.net/ottdau/
15:50<Zuu>Look at the 2.0 part of the page.
15:50<Nite>nice
15:50<Zuu>Oh, I need to update the website as well. So it links you to 2.0.3.
15:51<@Rubidium>Zuu: isn't it about time to ditch NoAI nightly support?
15:51<Zuu>I think it is already ditched.
15:51<Zuu>Just old screenshots.
15:51<@Rubidium>then fix your website :)
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15:53<Nite>the traincrash i produced still is the strangest - the signal is red but the train goes over it whe the signal that makes it red is passed - not before ...
15:53<Ammler>Zuu: if you update the screenshot: !s/#coop/#openttdcoop/
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15:54<Nite>so that means it is checked (computed and already uses processing power) but sdoes it wrong ...
15:54<Zuu>Ammler: Okay, that would probably had happened anyways since I've made that change localy.
15:55<KenjiE20>Nite: a thought, try it without a tunnel
15:55<Nite>i will in a sec
15:55<Ammler>Zuu: not necessary, just if you update anyway :-)
15:56<Nite>same without tunnel
15:58<Nite>same without depot or tunnel
15:59<Nite>train waiting for free path enters a section which does not have a path - thats it and i cant tell why
16:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19423 /trunk/src/ (command_func.h industry_gui.cpp network/network_command.cpp): -Codechange: Move error message reporting of industry build in SE to a callback.
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16:02<PeterT>Zuu: ping
16:02<Zuu>PeterT: pong
16:02<PeterT>Zuu: Is this a bug or on purpose?
16:02<Zuu>What?
16:04<PeterT>Zuu: http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8747/ottdau.png
16:05<PeterT>No buttons at the bottom
16:05<Zuu>hmm, thats strange
16:05<Nite>(know now how to reproduce ...)
16:06<Sacro>oh aye ;)
16:06<Zuu>I have no idea, I'll check trough the source whenever the highth of that window is set.
16:07<PeterT>is the source available?
16:07<Zuu>Not as in OS but I do have it. :-)
16:08<Zuu>If you resize the window what happens then? I guess the buttons follow behind?
16:09<PeterT>Zuu: Never mind
16:09<PeterT>I just closed it and opened it again
16:09<Zuu>The window height is stored in the ini-file but I would guess that the buttons should follow the bottom even if it is resized by code.
16:09<Nite>i find that path sigs are brutally complex
16:10<Zuu>It's a strange error that I haven't seen before, though I'm not a Delphi guru like Belugas. ;-)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: what i've been meaning to ask: when you abbreviated "OpenTTD Auto Update" to "OTTDAU", did you realize what "DAU" actually means in german? :)
16:11<Alberth>Nite: allowing trains from behind a signal makes it much more complicated, I only use one way path signals and one way block signals
16:11<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: Nope, I don't know german.
16:12<Zuu>I hope it is not to terrible as it would be a lot of work to change that. :-)
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: expands to "Dümmster Anzunehmender User" and translates to "pebkac" or similar
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>(it's derived from "GAU" meaning "Größter Anzunehmender Unfall" as in "worst possible case" [usually refers to a nuclear meltdown])
16:14<Alberth>add a dash: OTTD-AU
16:14<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: must remember that, sounds like a good name for whatever I will make next :p
16:15<Nite>i also thaought about ott-dau :-D
16:15<Alberth>that'd be Original Transport Tycoon
16:16<PeterT>Nobody calls it that though
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>there was a guy here a few weeks ago who asked for a program/website that checks whether names mean something problematic in other languages... i should have thought of that case back then...
16:16<Nite>dau = dumbest assumable user
16:16<PeterT>TTO is Transport Tycoon Original
16:16-!-ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:17<Alberth>oh
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>more common is "TT" though
16:18<PeterT>Right
16:18<Nite>"otto" maybee
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>why is there a "speak like a pirate" day, but no "speak in palindromes" day?
16:18<SmatZ>arrrr
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>that is not a palindrome :=
16:19<Coco-Banana-Man>rrrra
16:19<Coco-Banana-Man>rrarr
16:19<SmatZ>:)
16:19<Nite>its an acronym
16:20<PeterT>Step on no pets!
16:20<Nite>honestly i thaought ottdau was a joke liek there should be a ottd for teh dumbest useres assumable ...
16:20-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa94b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:20<SmatZ>:)_
16:21<Zuu>Hehe
16:21<Nite>and then it is something for ppl who cant update amnually
16:21<Zuu>Nite: Not everyone knows german...
16:22<Zuu>Well, thanks for telling me about the fun. I don't have time to "fix" it now though.
16:22<Nite>works in english too
16:23<PeterT>Zuu:
16:23<PeterT>[16:09:15] <PeterT> Zuu: Never mind
16:23<PeterT>[16:09:22] <PeterT> I just closed it and opened it again
16:23-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:23<Zuu>Yes and?
16:23<Nite>dont change the name it stays in ppls minds taht way (mostly germans)
16:23<Zuu>I was refering to the name change.
16:23<PeterT>It's not broken, nothing to fix
16:26<Zuu>Nite: True.
16:27<Zuu>Though, it does not magically install for you. You still need to get the OpenTTD base graphics/sounds and setup the OpenTTD installations in OTTDAU.
16:28<Zuu>Eg. you can't be completely DAU to use it. ;-)
16:30*andythenorth looks for a way for an industry to find the population of the nearest town
16:30<andythenorth>var 65 has some 'bits reserved for future use'....
16:31<@Rubidium>related object?
16:31-!-guru3_ is now known as guru3
16:31<Nite>i thought you dont need old tto grfx in 1.0 any more ...
16:33<Ammler>you don't need, but you still can...
16:33<@Rubidium>andythenorth: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Cities
16:34<Ammler>hmm, not sure about tto, but ttd
16:34<andythenorth>Rubidium: thanks...I"m not sure how to use it yet, but looks like I could have recycling plant production depend on nearby town population...
16:35<@Rubidium>it's scary how much of NewGRF I know from glancing newgrf_*.* so many times
16:35<@Rubidium>just finding it in the specs is difficult
16:36<Nite>true ttd i emant
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16:36<Alberth>source code is much more readable :)
16:37<andythenorth>I've never used 'related object'. I sort of knew about it. Looks quite...interesting.
16:38<andythenorth>oh, I've used it in articulated rvs
16:38<andythenorth>and industries. doh
16:40*andythenorth wonders if recycling plant production *should* depend on town population
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, better than collecting waste all over the place...
16:42<Nite>btw the opengfx fields look barren all the time - little more yellow would do them good (also to spot them quicker from "above")
16:43<andythenorth>mmmm new code to figure out then
16:44<andythenorth>hmm. Feel like I've discussed having 'random' output cargos from industries before. Is it an annoying idea?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>crazy idea: have the recycling plant "chop" houses like the saw mill chopping trees :p
16:44<+michi_cc>Nite: after investigating your savegame more detailed I have to acknowledge that this specific situation really *is* a bug. (this doesn't invalidate what I said earlier, mixing signals still can lead to problems in some situations)
16:45<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yup, crzy :D
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, i had this picture in my head and had to share it :p
16:45<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: nah, let it recycle stuff of your company
16:45<@Rubidium>only on difficulty level "hard"
16:48<andythenorth>but seriously, assume that 'waste' is not generally available in FIRS, but there is a recycling plant. It acts like a primary industry, what should it produce? Options include: scrap metal, farm supplies (compost), manufacturing supplies (plastic and glass)
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>maybe have the compost produced by a treatment plant instead?
16:49<andythenorth>nah, no more new industries :) The sprites for this one are done, and I am fighting a battle against 'too many industries'
16:49<andythenorth>although we did talk rather too much about sewage farms once
16:49<Nite>@michi_cc i thought so
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>farm supplies doesn't really fit in...
16:50<andythenorth>scrap food goes to animals, compost goes to farms??
16:50<Nite>i can now easyly reproduce that "bug" or glitch
16:51<Nite>let the first train get the rout and the let the second one search for one ... bam
16:51<Nite>i also dont get why both trains liek to choose the "outer" route
16:52<Nite>i expierienced more glitchy things (also with depots and path siganls) ...
16:52<+michi_cc>the real problem is the bridge directly in front of the station, if you remove it the crash prevention works like intended
16:52-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:52<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:53<PeterT>Hi Nite_Owl
16:53<@Rubidium>Nite Nite_Owl :)
16:53<Nite>oh the bridge was teh only object i didnt remove (tried it without depot and tunnel)
16:53<Nite>brb
16:53<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19424 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Call command procs only via DoCommand().
16:54<Nite_Owl>Hello Rubidium
16:55<Nite_Owl>Hey ---- wait a minute ---- copyright infringement
16:55<Nite_Owl>PeterT was Hello'd on another channel
16:57<Nite_Owl>well copyright infringement minus the Owl
16:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r19425 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Fix: [YAPP] A train on a bridge/tunnel was not always found when checking for trains on a reserved path.
17:01<Nite>keep in mind that when the train anters the "crashsection/block" the train isnt on the bridge anymore
17:02<Nite>i had a problem with trains accepting the platform behind the bridge though (rebuild teh paltform then they acceppted/found it)
17:03<Nite_Owl>Windows compile problems again with the nightly or a daylight savings time glitch ??
17:03<__ln__>expected: verb
17:04<Nite_Owl>Are there....
17:05<Nite_Owl>not really a verb but you get the idea
17:05<@Rubidium>vbox glitch
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: that may occur when you have the wrong railtype
17:06<+michi_cc>Nite: the last carriage still is on the bridge
17:06<Nite_Owl>the many joys of a complex compilation farm
17:07<Nite>wasnt the wrong railtiype (steam can run on every type) - i blamed the newgrf
17:07<@Rubidium>Nite: not complex, rather not wanting to mess too much with the server
17:07<Nite>you meant niteowl?
17:08<@Rubidium>yeah, tab completion and such :)
17:08<Nite>i dont even know how 2 do the "Name:" thing
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17:09<@Rubidium>anyhow, there is a vbox update that fixes the problem but that requires a kernel update and given the trouble we had to get the initial kernel running properly... better not push our luck
17:09<@Rubidium>besides that, we don't have enough time at the moment to clean up the mess if it goes wrong
17:09<OwenS>Rubidium: vbox? Virtualbox? Something else?
17:10<@Rubidium>OwenS: virtualbox
17:10<OwenS>This is the point where I hug OpenSolaris' checkpointing on updates
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>where is daylight savings time?
17:10<frosch123>here in two weeks or so
17:10<Nite_Owl>U.S. as of last night
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>the nightly server runs on european time
17:11<OwenS>An update goes wrong... you boot the previous boot archive, everything is fine
17:12<Nite>"summertime" march 28 here
17:12*Nite_Owl fails at a humor attempt
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17:12<@Rubidium>OwenS: fine, now do that without having any remote 'real console' access, i.e. with only ssh access
17:13<OwenS>Rubidium: Even my VPS gives me real console access over SSH
17:13<Nite_Owl>Nite: "/nick" without the quotes I believe
17:13<@Rubidium>OwenS: VPS != dedicated server
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17:14<OwenS>Rubidium: Plug the serial box into a terminal server ;-)
17:14<OwenS>serial port***
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: you type the first few letters of a name and then press the "tab" key
17:14<@Rubidium>OwenS: and how much is that going to cost extra per month?
17:14<Nite>Eddi|zuHause: nice
17:15*andythenorth ponders being evil with industry code
17:15<OwenS>Rubidium: I don't know. The alternative is just to change the grub boot file to a different archive, assuming things still boot (If they don't... you're in the same boat on any OS)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the tricky part about being evil is to avoid facing the consequences ;)
17:16*andythenorth wonders what the consequences might be
17:16<Nite_Owl>my bad - I thought you meant changing a nickname (wishful thinking on my part perhaps)
17:16<@Rubidium>OwenS: yes, I know that... but that's the tricky part where you need to get it right and such. Lots of work to validate, not much time to do so
17:17<@Rubidium>besides that... the issue only happens occasionally and doesn't really break stuff
17:17<@Rubidium>except windows nightlies
17:17<OwenS>Hmm... /me notes that struct Tile is at least 28bytes on ARM
17:17<Nite_Owl>in any case I am sure it will work tomorrow
17:18<Nite_Owl>and if not then I am also sure it will be fixed as soon as possible
17:18<OwenS>(ARM alignment rules are align to max(sizeof(X), 4))
17:19<@Rubidium>OwenS: also with 'pack'?
17:20<@Rubidium>i.e. __attribute__((packed))
17:20<@Rubidium>but I doubt that it's 28 bytes on ARM, otherwise dominik would've told us about it
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17:24*Nite_Owl is longer having an identity crises
17:25<OwenS>Rubidium: packed overrides that, but the ARM ABI says to align to 4 bytes
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17:26*Nite_Owl <correction> is no longer having an identity crisis
17:27<Nite_Owl>poor attempts at humor when you leave out a key word
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17:33*andythenorth thinks how nice it would be to be able to check persistent storage at one industry from another industry :P
17:34<@peter1138>hurrllo
17:34<@peter1138>should i try compiling openttd for my acorn a7000? :p
17:34<@Rubidium>is that the Born kind of acorn?
17:34<andythenorth>peter1138 why not. There's an A3000 in a loft somewhere with my name on it
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17:35<Nite>can you get passwords for nicknames on irc (sry very offtopic)
17:35<PeterT>Yes
17:35<PeterT>/msg NickServ help register
17:35*andythenorth faces a mountain of nfo :|
17:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, er, well...
17:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, that would need a RISC OS port :s
17:36<andythenorth>ok, skip that. we have enough troubles with...no lets not go there
17:36<@peter1138>unless there's some unixy environment (cygwin-alike) for it
17:37*andythenorth stares lovingly at industry var 68, wondering if it could do more....
17:38<@Rubidium>andythenorth: don't think 1 MiB is enough for OpenTTD
17:38<andythenorth>mine had 2MB. *very* expensive upgrade
17:38<andythenorth>anyway, ancient history
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17:39<@Rubidium>andythenorth: wouldn't that be a A3020?
17:39<andythenorth>nope
17:39<andythenorth>they sort of worked reliably. ours....didn't
17:39<@peter1138>this machine has 36MB
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17:42<Nite>register
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17:49<andythenorth>goodnight
17:49<Nite_Owl>later andythenorth
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17:51<OwenS>Rubidium: Hmm. It seems that the ARM EABI may no loger align everything on word boundaries
17:52<@peter1138>hm
17:52<@peter1138>okay, it has 40MB ram
17:52<OwenS>(The original ARM ABI definitely does)
17:52<@peter1138>however, it is only a 48Mhz ARM7500FE
17:54*Zuu goes and finds some signed material to watch
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18:09<PeterT>http://paste.openttd.org/225263
18:13<Xaroth>you broke it
18:15<Terkhen>good night
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18:17<JakeGrimshaw>hello all
18:17<Nite_Owl>Hello JakeGrimshaw
18:18<PeterT>Hey
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18:21<JakeGrimshaw>tested my scenario yet petert ?
18:21<PeterT>Not yet
18:21<PeterT>#jolteon, btw
18:21<PeterT>You should join there
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18:52<DanMacK>Hey Lakie
18:52<Lakie>Hi Dan,
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19:05-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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19:35*SpComb^ updated the MinGW page on the wiki to link to MSYS-1.0.11
19:35<SpComb^>I hope that isn't known-incompatible or something
19:35<SpComb^>but man, bash version 2.04 is OLD
19:40-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-236-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:43<PeterT>Nooooo
19:43<PeterT>why did you do that, SpComb^
19:43<PeterT>Now we have to deal with all the "I updated and it doesn't work" reports
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19:45<PeterT>binaries: binaries is missing in the topic
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19:46<SpComb^>PeterT: well, what's broken with it then?
19:46<PeterT>It was a prediction
19:48<SpComb^>well, it seems to be not entirely out of place, patch seems to reject all hunks now
19:48<SpComb^>even with -l
19:49<PeterT>Perhaps the same thing happened with this person: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=861456#p861456
19:50<SpComb^>perhaps
19:50<SpComb^>I'd say that looks more like the the 1.0.11 version
19:50<SpComb^>I'm guessing a line endings issue
19:51<SpComb^>but it doesn't particularly make sense
19:56<SpComb^>perplexing
19:56<planetmaker>Don't underestimate line endings ;-)
19:57<planetmaker>\n vs \r\n vs \r is the joy :-)
19:58-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1DB2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:59<OwenS>planetmaker: \r is dead :p
19:59<SpComb^>well, it fails with a unix2dos'd .patch
19:59<SpComb^>it gets the header right, and finds the file, but all hunks except those for empty files just fail
19:59<planetmaker>OwenS: I know. Since MacOS X
19:59<@Rubidium>my patch just ignores line endings by default
19:59<planetmaker>SpComb^: yes
20:00<SpComb^>indeed, so I would think as well
20:00<@Rubidium>sounds like a stupid patch if it doesn't do so
20:00<SpComb^>this worked fine with MSYS-1.0.10, but now that I upgraded to 1.0.11, patch went haywire
20:00<OwenS>planetmaker: A friend of mine recently had to deal with Mac Roman files. How the hell the person managed to get Mac Roman on OS X I have no idea
20:00<SpComb^>but I need 1.0.11 for the bash 3.x
20:00<@Rubidium>OwenS: Mac Roman? Did they make Macs 2000 years ago?
20:01<OwenS>Rubidium: Mac Roman = Apple's latin charset :p
20:01<OwenS>(Apple's old latin charset)
20:01<planetmaker>hu, OwenS ? You mean the encoding? But that's not a line ending. But it seems some kind of silly default
20:01<planetmaker>and no, not old. Still...
20:01<OwenS>planetmaker: It was some 3rd party silly text editor. And my understanding is that Mac Roman is deprecated in favor of UTF-8
20:02<planetmaker>Well, I come across it regularily.
20:02<SpComb^>http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=196297 <-- apparently some patch versions exhibit the same behavior
20:02<OwenS>People using silly text editors ;-)
20:02<SpComb^>the .patch itself doesn't have \r, but perhaps patch is opening it up in text mode, and windows is inserting \r's
20:02<planetmaker>well... like TextEdit (equiv. to word pad?)
20:03<planetmaker>s/?)/)?/
20:03<OwenS>planetmaker: Probably. I haven't touched a mac for ~2 years, and even then, not mine, and only for a short period
20:03<@Rubidium>SpComb^: actually, the libraries of mingw/msys? seem to occasionally have a habit of doing that
20:03<planetmaker>well. I tell you, OwenS. I write to you right now from one ;-)
20:04<OwenS>SpComb^: If it's opened in text mode, Windows would be *removing* \r's
20:04<SpComb^>I think the files in the repo have \r\n, and the .patch \n
20:05<SpComb^>hmm yes, if I run dos2unix on the file in the svn wc, then it applies the patch...
20:05<SpComb^>ugh, I wonder what workaround this needs...
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20:11<SpComb^>it's stripping the \r's from the .patch (even with --binary), but it's reading the \r's from the file, and failing the hunks :/
20:12<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/trg1r/data/sprite4479.png <-- what kind of house is that?
20:12<@Rubidium>ahaus?
20:13<OwenS>Ammler: To me it looks like a tower built on a western saloon
20:13<planetmaker>turn of century appartement building to me
20:13<planetmaker>-p
20:15<KenjiE20>isn't that a cinema? an art deco cinema to be more accurate
20:16<SpComb^>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2825458&group_id=2435&atid=102435
20:16<@Rubidium>@base 10 16 4479
20:16<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 117F
20:17<@Rubidium>@calc (1150-28)/16
20:17<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 70.125
20:18<Ammler>"shops and offices"
20:18<@Rubidium>@base 10 16 70
20:18<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 46
20:19<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=4477:4479 <-- could use a better opengfx altenative
20:19<@Rubidium>Ammler: STR_TOWN_BUILDING_NAME_SHOPS_AND_OFFICES_1 to be precise :)
20:19<@Rubidium>there are 2 other strings
20:20<Ammler>he, and now, I see the glitch
20:20<Ammler>I wondered all the time, why I need to replace those :-)
20:21<@Rubidium>that's GOOD :)
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20:21<Ammler>:-P
20:22<SpComb^>well, updating to patch 2.5.9 helps
20:22<SpComb^>according to that bug report, patch is supposed to fail with an UNIX patch file, and a DOS source file
20:22<SpComb^>but it's very confusing
20:23<@Rubidium>not even using patch 2.6?
20:23<Ammler>and how do I find the snowy variant of that house?
20:23<SpComb^>GnuWin32 has 2.5.9
20:24<PeterT>Happy belated Pi day
20:24<Zuu>After long time, I've now added a file cache to the OpenTTD AU server, so finger shouldn't get as many hits as before. Only if the cache is older than 5 minutes it will connect to the finger server.
20:25<@Rubidium>Ammler: you won't find the snowy variant
20:25<@Rubidium>Ammler: HZ_SUBARTC_BELOW
20:27<@Rubidium>@base 16 10 11e1
20:27<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 4577
20:27<Ammler>yes, thanks :-)
20:27<@Rubidium>hmm, it's another house: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/trg1r/data/sprite4577.png
20:27<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=4477:4479,4577
20:27<Ammler>no, it is right...
20:28<Zuu>That said, if the all requests would have been evenly distributed this cache will not help. As there is 31536000 seconds a year, but I wouldn't guess that the AU server has generated more than maximum 50 000 hits a year.
20:30<SpComb^>argh, and there's also a difference between `cat foo.patch | patch` and `patch -i foo.patch`
20:30<Ammler>and patch < foo.patch ?
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20:30<@Rubidium>SpComb^: the former is evil but works, the latter is 'as it should' but doesn't work, right?
20:31<SpComb^>yes
20:32<SpComb^>with < .patch and -i .patch it gets the first hunk partially, but then it thinks that the rest of it is supposed to be a patch header
20:32<SpComb^>how very broken
20:32<SpComb^>I also got it to assert
20:33<SpComb^>with `patch -p1 -i ...patch`
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20:34<SpComb^>oh, with `--verbose` it doesn't crash, but does the corrupt-header-in-the-middle-of-the-hunk thing, without --verbose, it just crashes - for both -i and < foo
20:34<PeterT>thanks for "fixing" the wiki
20:35<SpComb^>the main issue is that MSYS 1.0.10 is from 2004
20:35<SpComb^>1.0.11 is from 2009
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20:41<SpComb^>guess it's time to scrap msys and go to cygwin
20:41<SpComb^>I'll revert the wiki
20:42<Ammler>on cygwin, you will get other issues...
20:42<SpComb^>at least it's still maintained
20:42<PeterT>I think Rubidium deleted the previous cygwin wiki
20:42<@Rubidium>"fixing" says the person that added "For help with compiling on various platforms, join #openttd.compile" in the hope he could make that channel useful only to remove it from some, but not all, pages a while later or leave a link to #openttd. Please make up your mind yourself when changing the wiki, if so do it consistently and making a mistake is fine as long as you clean up all of the mess
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20:44<SpComb^>the IPv6 addresses look funky on the wiki's history page...
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20:50<@Rubidium>SpComb^: yeah, IPv6 is cool'n'funky
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20:57<Eddi|zuHause>i just got this strange idea... if Nite was registering that nick, he could kick all people using Nite as a prefix...
20:58<SpComb^>how so?
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21:02<planetmaker>can I kick everyone starting with pm? I doubt...
21:09-!-JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd
21:09<Ammler>planetmaker: you could kick everyone speaking about pm but not meaning you
21:10<@Rubidium>Ammler: only after noon
21:11<Zuu>even speaking using pm?
21:11<Ammler>there is no pm on irc
21:11<Ammler>well, except pm :-)
21:11<Zuu>well /msg is kind of like pms
21:11<planetmaker>:-P
21:12-!-Ammler was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [you told planetmaker what he could do, but he does not have the right to do it, so I will do it for him]
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21:12<Ammler>Zuu: that is query
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: pre menstrual syndrome?
21:13<Zuu>hehe, yep, I though of that connection too. :-)
21:14<Zuu>Was trying to find out if it was only a Swedish abrivation or international.
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: what's your affection with sellerie? :)
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: i have never heard a german use that abbreviation
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>only in english...
21:14<@Rubidium>Ammler: may we also not speak about something that has a pm that isn't 'your' pm?
21:16-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:16<Ammler>its pm's pm :-P
21:16<Ammler>'
21:17<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not trying to imagine pm with pms...
21:19<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: not trying or trying not to? :p
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21:22*OwenS wonders how the "Sea Sheperd"s haven't been arrested and locked up yet for terrorism
21:24<Eddi|zuHause>what's that?
21:25<Eddi|zuHause>in germany there's a court ruling that burning a police car is not terrorism :)
21:25<SpComb^>wow, cygwin's bash fails to execute .sh scripts with \r\n line endings per default...
21:25<@Rubidium>OwenS: some are American, USA does think hunting whales is bad, Japan thinks hunting whales is good, Sea thingy tries to stop Japanese fishers. Japan taking them as prisoners mean the USA comes to get them, so taking prisoners doesn't work.
21:25<SpComb^>that's madness
21:26<OwenS>They're the people who keep attacking the Japanese "research" whaling vessels. No matter your opinion on the matter, crashing your boats into them is not the correct way about it
21:26<SpComb^>someone go bonk the cygwin devs on the head until they develop some sense
21:26<OwenS>Rubidium: Sea Shepherd are from NZ it seems
21:26<@Rubidium>OwenS: but it has to be said, the crashing happens from both sides
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: use linux.
21:27<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: port MSVC to linux
21:27<_newage_>xD
21:27<OwenS>Rubidium: Not really. Their latest antics indicate delibirate intention to make it look like the whalers crashed into them, while video shows otherwise
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21:27<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: i think i once run the msvc compiler under wine
21:28<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: MSVC6-ish probably
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>(not the IDE)
21:28<SpComb^>I don't see why cygwin couldn't just fix their bash to handle \r\n's per default
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>2008 express, i think...
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>i couldn't properly install it, though
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>although winetricks did have the option to do so
21:29<@Rubidium>oh, it works now?
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>well, it ran, i'm not sure if it actually worked...
21:30<@Rubidium>because that would be more or less good news for the compile farm I'd say
21:30<@Rubidium>no more need for VirtualBox :)
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea how to open the project files, though... so a makefile could be more useful
21:31<OwenS>You should all go CMake, it can generate nmake files :p
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>and it had some crazy stuff with case sensitive filenames...
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21:41<@Rubidium>oh boy... I fear we really need to start making Ubuntu packages if we don't want to have whining Ubuntu users (or in other words: Squeeze is likely to not ship the same ICU as Ubuntu again)
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21:45<FauxFaux>Statically link icu, it's only tens of megs!
21:46<FauxFaux>Bonus points for making the debian people unbelievably sad.
21:46<OwenS>FauxFaux: ICU's size is tables in external files
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21:47<FauxFaux>Statically link and bundle ICU? :)
21:47<OwenS>hehe
21:47<OwenS>anyway, with that, goodnight
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21:56<Eddi|zuHause>FauxFaux: i believe the generic binaries statically link to libicu
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21:57<SpComb^>fonsinchen: I was admiring your SaveLoadVersion enum a while ago
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22:06<SpComb^>hmm, the git-svn exports of the branches don't share any history with the trunk repo :/
22:07<@Rubidium>guess hg2svn is to blame :)
22:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: you're right
22:09<SpComb^>makes git merges... painful
22:09<SpComb^>I guess it's rebase time
22:10<Eddi|zuHause>why are the ubuntu users the whiniest of all? i have never heard anyone complain about lack of opensuse or fedora packages
22:11<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: because ".deb" means "ubuntu package"
22:16<SpComb^>hmm... guess it's time to give up trying to apply cargodist and others to the 1.0 branch
22:16<fonsinchen>uh, sorry, I was sort of absent ...
22:17<SpComb^>not going to work without the shared history
22:17<fonsinchen>you should try to apply a version of cargodist from the time when 1.0 was branched from trunk
22:18<SpComb^>it would be a `git diff | git apply` job :/
22:18<SpComb^>I guess it isn't really worth it
22:19<fonsinchen>I would create a git branch with 1.0
22:19<fonsinchen>(clean 1.0)
22:19<fonsinchen>then I'd checkout the last cargodist from before 1.0
22:19<fonsinchen>then I'd merge the 1.0 branch into that
22:19<SpComb^>merge as in `git merge`?
22:20<fonsinchen>yes
22:20<SpComb^>the 1.0.git and trunk.git from git.openttd.org don't have any shared history
22:20<fonsinchen>eek
22:20<fonsinchen>so you need to get a diff of branchpoint->current1.0
22:20<fonsinchen>then make a new git branch from that
22:21<SpComb^>something along those lines
22:21<SpComb^>but as I said, I guess it isn't really worth it, just for the symbolic goodness of having a release-numbered build
22:22<SpComb^>although maybe I'll just try it once, to see how much of a chore it ends up being
22:24<fonsinchen>well, good luck
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 15 00:00:11 2010