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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-15

---Logopened Mon Mar 15 00:00:11 2010
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01:21<DanMacK>!seen Pikka
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04:02<Terkhen>good morning
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05:53<andythenorth>so an industry can access variables of the town it belongs to, but can a town get info about industries belonging to it?
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06:30*andythenorth stops trying to make power plants do more than they should
06:30<Gorillagram>what's that then?
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06:31<@peter1138>you want them to actually power towns? hehe
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06:32<__ln__>i would like them to power elrails
06:32<andythenorth>peter1138: that sort of thing...
06:32<andythenorth>"what's the point of power plants?"
06:32<andythenorth>"the point is to get paid for delivering the coal"
06:33<@peter1138>transport game :D
06:33<dih>__ln__: in the form that the power station must process a certian amount of coal in order to provide enough electicity for a certain amount of erails :-P
06:33<dih>so you never want to provide coal with an electric train :-P
06:33<andythenorth>but when I play PBI, I never deliver to power plants. Coal -> steel mill = get paid, plus more cargo to get paid for (steel)
06:33<__ln__>dih: something like that...
06:33<dih>just in case you have a breakdown and the coal does not reach the powerplant in due time
06:34*andythenorth thinks he has a solution
06:34<andythenorth>(not to elrails)
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06:35<dih>but then you would want to deliver oil to airports :-P
06:35<Pikka>andy: that's why there should be more coal than iron ore, I guess
06:35<dih>or at least the "goods" from an oilrefinery should go to airports
06:36<__ln__>i once made a cosmetic patch that would show the amount of MWh produced by a power station. was not accepted.
06:36<Jolteon>that'd have been awesome
06:36<andythenorth>Pikka: even when there's more coal than ore, I just build more steel mills and ore mines :)
06:36<Jolteon>OpenTTD needs more cosmetic things.
06:36<Pikka>I see andy :)
06:36<andythenorth>__ln__: can be done in a grf
06:37<Pikka>yep, they won't accept patches which can be done in grf...
06:37<andythenorth>ECS does it
06:38<Pikka>a new grf of mine has powerplants that produce "MWh of electricity" as a transportable cargo. ;) maybe not realistic, but eh...
06:38<Pikka>it's a toyland replacement, it doesn't need to be realistic
06:38<__ln__>andythenorth: couldn't be back then, i suppose. and i know, nowadays everything can be done and is done in grf. no point for anyone to write C++ code anymore.
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06:39<Jolteon>Pikka: didn't toyland originally have 'batteries' to transport, or something.
06:39<@peter1138>see, if the game showed MWh for all powerplants, then that would restrict the values Pikka could use
06:39<@peter1138>and then all power plants would have equal efficiency
06:40<Jolteon>I'd love to see more general cosmetic stuff in OpenTTD, not stuff that has a use, just for show.
06:40<Pikka>Jolteon: yep
06:40<andythenorth>Pikka: I had an idea last week for a new route type 'packet transport' - for pipelines etc which have 'flow'
06:40<andythenorth>that would make electricity work as a 'cargo'
06:40<andythenorth>(also for aerial ropeways, conveyor belts etc)
06:41<Pikka>I guess pipelines or electrical wires could work... but couldn't cross other transport routes.
06:41<andythenorth>would need 'bridges'
06:42<@peter1138>bridges? shocking
06:43<Jolteon>peter1138 shat himself with surprise.
06:43<andythenorth>Jolteon: any suggestions on cosmetics?
06:43<Pikka>peter1138: if they're electrical wire bridges, possibly.
06:44<Pikka>hur hur hur
06:44<Jolteon>Not really, just small things, like PP's showing what they produce (Based on coal delivered)
06:46<andythenorth>does anyone get really traumatised if units of cargo into an industry has mininal relation to units of cargo out?
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06:47<Jolteon>I just get traumatised by trying my hardest, but never getting 90%+ of what something like a mine produces.
06:48<andythenorth>I don't even look at % transported, it's a boring number
06:48<Pikka>I use it only if I need more of a resource and want to know if I can usefully put another train on that route :)
06:48<Pikka>low% = can take another train
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06:50<andythenorth>I pretty much run road vehicle from every primary industry to ships or trains, that will keep % transported around 67%
06:52<andythenorth>or ships as feeders. ships are.....goood :)
06:54<andythenorth>does this sound fun (fractions are cargo out for cargo in)
06:54<andythenorth>teel plant may have special efficiency behaviour:
06:54<andythenorth>Iron ore only: 2/8
06:54<andythenorth>Coal only: 2/8
06:54<andythenorth>Scrap metal only: 4/8
06:54<andythenorth>Coal + iron ore: 4/8
06:54<andythenorth>Coal + scrap metal: 4/8
06:54<andythenorth>Coal + iron + scrap metal: 8/8
06:55*peter1138 ponders
06:55<andythenorth>oops Coal + scrap metal: 6/8
06:58<andythenorth>I guess I'll just have to code it and see :P
06:59<Jolteon>I'd like to see a GRF that makes new fences around rail tracks.
06:59<Jolteon>current ones are bleh.
07:01<andythenorth>Jolteon: turn them off :)
07:01<andythenorth>north american style railroading
07:01<Jolteon>how xD
07:03<andythenorth> 'spanner' menu - 'full detail displayed' (turn that off)
07:04<@peter1138>newgrf railtypes can have per-railtype fences
07:05<Jolteon>In England, the fences are like 2 metres high.
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07:05<Jolteon>(or just non existant for countryside parts)
07:06<Jolteon>hm, is it possible for a GRF to get distance to nearest town, and alter graphics accordingly?
07:06<Jolteon>I.E if it's within x amount of tiles to a town, display fences, if not, no.
07:10<andythenorth>Jolteon: doesn't look like there is a varaction 2 for that
07:10<andythenorth>seems like it could be quite cpu intensive if every rail tile does that often. Perhaps it could be cached when the tile is built or something
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07:10<andythenorth>I dunno
07:11*andythenorth makes a cup of tea
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07:12*andythenorth ponders
07:12<andythenorth>option a) take the baby to the park in the sunshine; option b) write industry nfo code
07:13<@Rubidium>c) take the baby and laptop to the park and write industry nfo code in the sunshine
07:14<andythenorth>not bad, lateral thinking
07:15<Jolteon>Now we know how OpenTTD is dev'd
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07:20*andythenorth ponders doing some date-based maths in nfo
07:20<andythenorth>not going to happen
07:21<Pikka>it's not hard, andy
07:24<@peter1138>hmm, laptop to the park
07:24<@peter1138>although i don't think my laptop battery lasts long enough
07:25<@Rubidium>so request power sockets next to the benches in the park
07:25<@peter1138>and wifi :D
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07:29<andythenorth>Pikka: I'm just using the monthly production cb instead. who cares if calendar months are a dumb way to decide industry production :D
07:29<andythenorth>monthly production *change* cb that would be
07:30<HackaLittleBit>peter1138: or buy an asus 1000He 8 hours battery life , Nice machine :)
07:30<Jolteon>8 hours, then after 1 year, 30 minutes?
07:31<andythenorth>"It's Feb 2nd. You delivered coal on Jan 30th. But the game doesn't care"
07:31<HackaLittleBit>dunno yet
07:32<@peter1138>besides, they're a bit small
07:32*andythenorth has brainache
07:33<@peter1138>also i don't have time to sit on park benches coding, heh
07:33<andythenorth>industry production code for more than one cargo is *really* hard once you gradual processing is ruled out
07:33<andythenorth>gradual processing verboten :|
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07:38<@peter1138>/home/petern/ottd/trunk2/src/saveload/../ai/ai_gui.hpp:26: error: ‘WL_INFO’ was not declared in this scope
07:38<@Rubidium>partial svn up?
07:39<@peter1138>/home/petern/ottd/trunk2/src/saveload/../ai/ai_gui.hpp:26: error: ‘ShowErrorMessage’ was not declared in this scope
07:39<@peter1138>as well
07:39<andythenorth>Pikka: nfo to check whether a cargo was delivered in the last 30 days?
07:39<@Rubidium>oh, you disabled AIs :)
07:40<@peter1138>sorry, didn't realise i had, heh
07:40<andythenorth>hmmm. register with a value which is +1 every time production cb runs?
07:40<andythenorth>reset it to 0 when cargo is delivered....if value is more than 8, no cargo was delivered in last ~30 days
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07:41<Pikkaaa>it's a shame var B4 is 1920 based and not 0 based :)
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07:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19426 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.hpp misc.cpp): -Fix: compilation with AIs disabled
07:47<@peter1138>Pikkaaa, hysterical raisins, eh?
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07:48<HackaLittleBit>peter1138: whom is the person to talk to about nity gritty in traincontroller, eg line 3285 and next 5 in train_cmd.cpp, I do not exactly understand what it should do :(
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07:49<HackaLittleBit>Is it meant to put train on coorect x,y position before entering tile?
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07:51<Jolteon>this program thinks OpenAL is related to OpenTTD.
07:51<Jolteon>Which i'm trying to install
07:51<Jolteon>but it claims a programmed called OpenTTD has a dependency to it :|
07:51*Jolteon just uninstalls the fail uninstaller and goes back to the Windows one.
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07:53<OwenS>It's official: It's ISO C++11
07:54<OwenS>Closest is . The official final comitte draft will be available in the next two weeks. Unless theres a major problem, it will be balloted and ratified within a year
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09:13*roboboy should go to bed
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09:29<HackaLittleBit>still in the snow ?
09:30<@Belugas>there are still some here and there
09:30<@Belugas>but... it's mainly over
09:31<HackaLittleBit>yeah summer is comming Yahoooooo
09:31<HackaLittleBit>canooing with the kids
09:32<dih>oh dear
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09:36<@Belugas>yeah for summer activities!
09:37<@Belugas>my son would rather see us canooing then participation but time will ocme ;)
09:37<Pikka>gentlemen: canoeing
09:38<dih>echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu?/online
09:40<OwenS>dih: My CPU lacks an online parameter :p
09:40<dih>that's boring :-P
09:41<dih>how about using cpufreq then :-D
09:42<OwenS>cat <>/scaling_available_freqs:2400000 2200000 2000000 1800000 1000000
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09:42<OwenS>Or, no less than 1GHz :P
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09:43<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: are you sure?
09:44<OwenS>dih: Apparently it's available on my server, but you'd have to get me the command for OpenSolaris :P
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09:51<Pikka>Eddi|zuHause: am I sure it's canoeing and not canooing? yes. :)
09:52<dih>OwenS: google ... :-P
09:52<@peter1138>2800000 2600000 2400000 2200000 2000000 1800000 1000000
09:52<OwenS>dih: It's you that wants to turn off my CPU :P
09:52<@peter1138>hurr, i have moar
09:52<OwenS>peter1138: Those frequencies look distinctly AMD :p
09:53<@peter1138>yeah, my intel has just "1600000" and "2400000"
09:53<@peter1138>which is pretty pathetic
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>i don't seem to have that option at all...
09:53<@peter1138>(actually it has 2GHz and 3Ghz, but... :D)
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>it's like drivemaker's gigabyte -> cpumaker's gigahertz
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>just add 12% :)
09:55<OwenS>TBH, a drivemakers gigabyte is actually a gigabyte, and the other one is actually a gibibyte :p
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>that's not the problem, but all software actually shows gibibyte...
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>which sounds awful, by the way
09:56<HackaLittleBit>see yah
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09:57<@peter1138>OwenS, only because they changed the definition later
09:57<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Complain to ISO (IIRC it's ISO anyway)
09:57<OwenS>peter1138: No, giga is an established definition under SI: 10^9
09:57<@peter1138>OwenS, how old are you?
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09:57<OwenS>peter1138: The relavence?
09:58<@peter1138>Giga has always means 10^9 in SI, yes.
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: the term "gibibyte" can't be older than 10 years...
09:58<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: The fact that the initially used term was ambiguous does not make it less wrong
09:58<@peter1138>but Kilo and Mega and Giga, in computer use didn't mean that
09:58<OwenS>peter1138: Thats an overloaded ambiguity. Confusion ensues
09:58<__ln__>let's not forget Jigo
10:00<@peter1138>back in the 70s and 80s, nobody was confused
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>back in the 90s, nobody was either...
10:01<@peter1138>aye, it was only went harddrives reached a certain size that they started coming in 10^3 sizes
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>only when the "common" people got introduced to the computer, everything was wrong suddenly
10:01<OwenS>Back then nobody was confused because A) for kilo and mega, it's very close and B) People who used computers understood binary
10:02<@peter1138>%age wise the difference is the same
10:02<OwenS>peter1138: No it's not
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>it's an additional 4% per prefix
10:02<@peter1138>ah well
10:03<OwenS>Compounding of the 24s ;-)
10:03<@peter1138>even so, we still buy ram in GB :D
10:03<OwenS>Thats because computers work in power-of-two address lines ;-)
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>(1000+24)^n ~ (1000+n*24)*1000^(n-1)
10:04<@peter1138>but nobody feels the need to say they're selling 4 Gibibytes of RAM
10:04<@peter1138>or 4.29GB
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>they'll make that a law...
10:04<@peter1138>4.295 Gigabytes!
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>just like they made it a law that you can't sell monitors measured in "
10:05<OwenS>Saying it's 4.3GB would be such a great marketing con I'm surprised computer retailers don't do it
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>which is weird anyway... TV screens have been measured in cm for ages, only computer monitors were measured in "
10:06<@peter1138>still all inches here
10:07<OwenS>Also, use of kb to mean 1000 bits predates meaning 1024 bits :p
10:07<__ln__>TV and monitor sizes all in inches even here
10:07<@peter1138>yeah, but that's bits, not bytes
10:08<@peter1138>i don't remember what the point is. the fact is someone came along and decided to redefine it.
10:12<dih>Yexo_: ping ^^
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>... and with every redefinition there's bound to be people who stick to the old ways...
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10:31<andythenorth>should I put a canoe in FISH? Capacity?
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>2 people or 100kg?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>too bad there is no unit smaller than 1t
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10:35<fonsinchen>2 people or 1 bag of mail
10:36<fonsinchen>actually only 1 person, the other one is the "driver" :)
10:39<Pikka>eddi: there is
10:40<Pikka>the smallest possible unit in ttd is 62.5kg (which is how much a passenger weighs). Of course, you then have to configure all vehicles to carry 16 times as many units. ;)
10:42<andythenorth>related: is it annoying when a vehicle carries 100 passengers, but the cargo refit is much lower capacity? Pikka - you did it in AV8? I am thinking of doing it for FISH....
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10:44<Pikka>andy: TTD does some crude division/multiplying for passengers, mail and goods. you use callback 15 to do it properly. :)
10:45<Jolteon>Pikka: wtf.
10:45<Jolteon>62.5 Kg?
10:45<Jolteon>Thats only 9.84 stone
10:45<andythenorth>almost exactly my weight, how weird
10:45<Jolteon>Thats some pretty light people.
10:46<Pikka>it's also 1/16th of a ton.
10:46<andythenorth>"I am the passenger"
10:46<Jolteon>they're very tall and thin, or small and fat :|
10:46<andythenorth>"And I ride and I ride"
10:46<Jolteon>very tall and skeleton thin, more like
10:46<Pikka>Jolteon: or middling and middling?
10:47<Jolteon>I just checked NHS
10:47<Jolteon>9.84 stone is slightly underweight :o
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10:47<Jolteon>(for a 6ft male)
10:47<Jolteon>(which is me)
10:47<Pikka>not all your passengers are 6ft males though
10:47<ashb>depends if its a commuter serivce or not
10:47<ashb>i find on the rush hour trains most people are ~6ft males
10:48<andythenorth>Pikka: do you use cb15 in AV8?
10:48<ashb>certainly a larger proportion are male
10:48<andythenorth>I presumed so
10:48<Pikka>plus, as I've tried to point out, the reason for that number is it's 1000/16, not for any reason of realism.
10:48<Pikka>yes I do andy
10:48<ashb>you and your logic
10:48<Pikka>I use it for just about every refittable vehicle in every set :)
10:48<Eddi|zuHause><Jolteon> very tall and skeleton thin, more like <-- and they have no baggage :)
10:48<Jolteon>no spare ryres
10:49<andythenorth>Pikka: I probably will use it for FISH. I might add some extra capacity text to the vehicle window though
10:49<Pikka>okay :)
10:49<Jolteon>rofl at one fish being 62.5 kg
10:49<Jolteon>thats one massive fish.
10:49<Jolteon>probably more light-weight shark sized.
10:50<Pikka>well, I generally use callback 15 then property 47 to test the cargo or cargo class, nothing could be simpler. :)
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>FISH is ships
10:50<Jolteon>Pikka: You're a genius at GRFs and what can and can't be done with them, right?
10:51<Pikka>I preferred my ship grf name, "Fission", but FISH is good too. :P
10:51<Pikka>something like that, Jolteon. it's all there on the wiki though.
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>tuna is fairly large...
10:51<Jolteon>Does anyone know if a GRF can tell the distance between a tile and a town, and alter the graphics displayed relative to it?
10:51<Pikka>tuna are fairly large, too.
10:51<Pikka>depends what's on the tile, Jolteon.
10:51<Jolteon>I want to alter the size of a fence around tracks dependant on how near it is to a town
10:51<Pikka>no, you can't do that.
10:52<Jolteon>In England, a rail fence is generally very tall around cities, getting smaller and smaller (and non existant) deeper into the countryside
10:52<Jolteon>and dang :|
10:52<Pikka>Jolteon: although you could ask someone to make it happen.
10:52<Jolteon>I'm guessing that'd need an edit into OpenTTD (or TTDPs) code, though
10:52<Jolteon>I don't want to cause hassle lol
10:53<Pikka>well it won't happen then. :)
10:53<Jolteon>and I'm guessing if it's rail track with fence needed to check it's surrounding tiles for a city, the CPU usage would increase too.
10:53<roboboy>its the same in NSW and probably othe Aussie states and teritories
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>Jolteon: it's "easy", just add it to src/newgrf_railtype.cpp:RailTypeGetVariable()
10:53<Pikka>depends how often it checked and what exactly it checked for.
10:54<Jolteon>basically if there is a town within 15 to 20 tiles of where the fence was.
10:54<@peter1138>yeah, i need to add some bits for rail types
10:54<@peter1138>like "is it in a town" kind of thing
10:54<Jolteon>an alter the size of the fence dependant on it
10:54<@peter1138>but without having performance suckyness
10:54<Pikka>there you go, Jolteon. :P
10:54<@peter1138>Pikka should write it
10:54<Jolteon>so if it's like in a town, tall fence, outside it, smaller fence, if there are no towns within like 35 blocks, call it countryside and have no fence
10:54<Jolteon>Unless it's within a farms fields
10:54<Pikka>unless it's a farm? D:
10:55<Jolteon>then add a fence to protect the farmers and their animals
10:55<Jolteon>yes, :p
10:55<Pikka>peter1138 should know better
10:56<Jolteon>Is there any way to tell the distance between say, industry 1, and industry 2.
10:56<Jolteon>(Whether they are the same industry or not, is not relevant)
10:56<Jolteon>I'm guessing OpenTTD has some sort of detection for it's internal Industry generation, though?
10:57<roboboy>how about checking if there is a LA for the tile?
10:57<roboboy>for the fence thing?
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>Jolteon: each industry has a "location" rectangle
10:58<andythenorth>Jolteon: the industry question - what are you thinking of doing?
10:58<Jolteon>ah, so they don't search around them for another, they just check if there is another within it's own rectangle?
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: local authority is not stored in the tile
10:58<andythenorth>Jolteon newgrf industries can search for other industries
10:58<andythenorth>sort of
10:58<Jolteon>andythenorth: Was wondering if it was possible to alter town growth ratios dependant on a certain industry being there.
10:59<Jolteon>Much of the 20th century, development was faster for a town if it made certain goods
10:59<Jolteon>My local area only became so big cause of it's massive textile industry.
10:59<Jolteon>Without it, this area would probably still be little villages today.
11:00<Jolteon>Would be nice if it was possible to replicate it to a degree in OTTD.
11:00<andythenorth>For houses it is possible to see what cargos were recently accepted at nearby stations
11:02<andythenorth>so town growth could depend on an industry shipping certain cargos out. But I don't think it would make for good gameplay in practict
11:02<andythenorth>practice /s
11:03*roboboy realy should sleep
11:10<andythenorth>Pikka: are your av8 freight capacities based on real vehicles, or just some multiple you made up in a carefree sorta way?
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11:12<Pikkaaa>andy: mostly just made up. generally higher than real capacities for aircraft.
11:13<andythenorth>okey cokey
11:14<andythenorth>by the way, if you were thinking of adding any planes with quite a *low* freight capacity, they would suit FIRS nicely. Choppers work, but are a tad....slow
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11:15<Pikkaaa>is the herc too large? :P
11:15<Pikkaaa>the RL capacity is more like 20t than av8s 60...
11:15<andythenorth>This is very specific to Engineering & Farm Supplies which need small monthly deliveries :) The DHC8 is quite useful.
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11:16<andythenorth>Pikkaaa I don't know much about planes, but 20t, 400mph would be about right
11:17<andythenorth>or I can just use rv transfers at the end of the route :)
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>the problem with openttd is that payment does not account for geographical difficulties
11:19<Pikkaaa> andythenorth? :P
11:19<Pikkaaa>if they're an express cargo, of course...
11:21<andythenorth>Pikka do I need a new AV8? I don't see that plane :o
11:21<andythenorth>ah hah
11:21<Pikkaaa>it's a genav8 plane
11:21<andythenorth>I see
11:21<andythenorth>they'll do the job very nicely
11:21<andythenorth>what about this flying shed thingy:
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>ships should just have a very low running cost...
11:22<Pikkaaa>may as well go back to basics and use a DC3, andy. :P
11:23<andythenorth>DC3 is Dakota right?
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11:24<andythenorth>funny, I was thinking that would be the ideal thing for delivering tractor parts to remote mines and farms ;)
11:24<Pikkaaa>yep :)
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11:26<andythenorth>oh :o AV8s DC3 isn't available in 2002
11:26<andythenorth>I refer you chaps to my 'secondhand vehicle' idea of yesterday :P
11:27<planetmaker>Pikkaaa, is there a measure for how long (in pixels) the sprites for 8/8, 9/8, ... length train vehicles have to be? 8/8 = 32, so 7/8 = 28? and so on?
11:27<Pikka>well, it should be available up until the 1990s... by which time you have the helicopters and such to take over. ;)
11:28<Pikka>yep planetmaker, it's basically 4*length.
11:28<andythenorth>ahem...and I quote "the only replacement for a DC-3 is another DC-3"
11:28<andythenorth>now where did that quote come from??
11:28<Pikka>oops, andy :)
11:28<Pikka>still, 1990s, and if you want them longer, turn the vehicles never expire option on! ;)
11:29<planetmaker>thanks, Pikka
11:29<andythenorth>The general av8ion planes are perfect for use with FIRS supply cargos :D
11:29<planetmaker>Pikka, yes, that page is what I look at ;-)
11:29<andythenorth>now I just have to write the bloody FIRS production code :x
11:29<planetmaker>it just doesn't write lengths in pixels :-P - except in nfo etc
11:30<Pikka>andy, when I get a couple more in there, they'll be useful too :)
11:30<Pikka>like the "Island Hopper"... DHC-6... ;)
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11:33<Ammler>pikka and your 8/8 vehicels don't glitch in tunnels?
11:34<Pikka>don't they? :P
11:34<Pikka>they probably do a little, yeah. of course, you can always leave a bigger gap at the ends if that bothers you.
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>afair even the original vehicles glitch in tunnels
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>the ore wagons, i believe
11:41<planetmaker>pikka, what may be the reason, if an 8/8 engine with your template shows fine in the purchase menu, but misses two pixels in the front in the depot view?
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: missing 32-pixel flag?
11:43<Pikka>probably, Eddi|zuHause
11:43<planetmaker>actually... it misses also the top line of pixels most probably...
11:43<planetmaker>eh, 32 pixel flag?
11:44<planetmaker>please tell me more about that :-)
11:44<Pikka>bit 3 :)
11:44<planetmaker>so... that won't work without? I try to use it in OpenGFX...
11:45<planetmaker>and there I surely cannot use that.
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>the original vehicles are 28 pixels, i believe
11:46<planetmaker>hm, yes... Hm... big problem, I guess. Then I cannot go beyond that :-(
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11:51<Pikka>planetmaker: put the vehicles on the 8/8 templates, but make them only 28px in the horizontal views (and correspondingly shorter in the other views if you like). :)
11:51<Pikka>that will make them match the original TTD vehicles
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11:52<planetmaker>Pikka: thanks, that's what I'll do. What I'm actually doing right now atm :-)
11:53*andythenorth wonders which is harder: writing the nfo for industry code, or figuring out what the code should actually do :O
11:53<Pikka>tell me about it, andy... lol
11:55<andythenorth>the answer is mostly 'figuring it out'. The nfo is long as I get help with the crunchy bits :)
12:00<Pikka>goodnight all
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>"night"? is he in japan or something?
12:04<@Rubidium>more like Australia
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>japan is 7 hours ahead, i believe, so it'd be midnight
12:06<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: 17:02 -!- Pikka [] has quit
12:07<@Rubidium>he was in Japan for a while a while ago though
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the IP doesn't show on quits
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12:27<TrueBrain>hi JakeGrimshaw
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12:27<Noldo>TrueBrain: did you notice this:
12:28<TrueBrain>I even know who helped win32 compatibility :)
12:29<JakeGrimshaw>is Yexo here ?
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12:31<andythenorth>@seen Yexo_
12:31<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen Yexo_.
12:31<andythenorth>@seen Yexo
12:31<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Yexo> AIIndustry.WhatCargoIsNeededToProceedBeforeThatCargo <- .... at least the naming is clear
12:31-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
12:32<@peter1138>"doon lunacy" :(
12:32<Yexo>andythenorth: I'm here :)
12:32<andythenorth>hi hi
12:32<andythenorth>JakeGrimshaw was looking for you
12:32<JakeGrimshaw>yexo, it was you that made me that sleeperAI was it not ?
12:33<JakeGrimshaw>i ran into a bit of a problem
12:33<andythenorth>Yexo...did I mention that I liked your industry placement patch? I did? Oh :o
12:33<Yexo>andythenorth: yes, but there was some moer discussion in that topic, can't really remember what though
12:33<andythenorth>all kinds of industry things
12:34<JakeGrimshaw>i went into AI settings, put in 14 sleeperAI's, then went 'play scenario', but 14 random AIs appeared. Then, if you quit the game, AI settings display 14 random AI's again ?
12:34<andythenorth>but the separation patch is pretty good :)
12:34<JakeGrimshaw>this may not be to do with sleeperAI, but I know you are a dab hand with AI anyway so i thought i would ask
12:34<Yexo>the AIs are stored in the savegame and also in the scenario
12:35<Yexo>but after you quit the scenario it should've shown 14xsleeperai again
12:35<JakeGrimshaw>nope, it changed itself to random
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12:51<JakeGrimshaw>yexo: if I have normal AIs, but use the 'disable road vehicles from competitors" etc from the Advanced Settings, with this have the same affect as a SleeperAI ?
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12:52<Yexo>JakeGrimshaw: depending on the AIs you'll also have to disable the other vehicle types
12:52<Yexo>and even if you disable a vehicle type the AI can still build infrastructure
12:52<Yexo>it depends on the AI on whether it does that or ot
12:53<JakeGrimshaw>i suppose so yeah
12:53<JakeGrimshaw>so is there any way around having "randomAis" written into the scenario ?
12:53<Yexo>JakeGrimshaw: if you load a scenario and you want a specific ai, just do "start_ai ainame" in the console
12:54<JakeGrimshaw>so if i do that 14 times with sleeperAI, i will get just those ?
12:56<JakeGrimshaw>thank you for your help
12:57<JakeGrimshaw>on an unrelated note, would it be unwise to start playing a new scenario now, only to have to start it again when nutracks becomes more complete in a few weeks ?
12:58<andythenorth>JakeGrimshaw: will it be fun?
12:58<andythenorth>JakeGrimshaw: if it will be fun you should play
12:58<andythenorth>if it wont be fun, don't do it :)
13:00<davis>another off-topic question , not sure howto say this , but are there any online servers alike brianetas standard server? I think some people shall remember it. Alike as in good setup maps/newgrf and nice players. and don't refer me to openttdcoop :P
13:00<JakeGrimshaw> i mean, will the scenario have to be scrapped when nutracks are updated ? or can you add them in to a running scenario ?
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>JakeGrimshaw: you might end up with stuck trains on incompatible railtypes in the worst case
13:01<JakeGrimshaw>but that would be fixable though right ?
13:01<JakeGrimshaw>i know it isnt advisable changing newgrf's ingame
13:01<Eoin>what is nutracks?
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>a nugrf :p
13:03<JakeGrimshaw>i would start it now, but i need NG rails for my scenario
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13:09<Eoin>i like this nu tracks
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13:28<martix>anyone I can ask for help with openttd error?
13:29<blathijs>martix: Just add the question and be patient :-)
13:30<martix>When I try to start openttd, I get assertion error at line 566, Ive tried to uninstall/reinstall latest RC, but it still gives me the same error
13:30<@Rubidium>can you be more specific about what the assertion error?
13:30<martix>how can I make it work again? i dont care if I loose any settings
13:31<martix>says: assertion failed at line 566 of ..\src\fileio.cpp: f != NULL
13:31<martix>want more?
13:32<martix>I then get message to show report
13:33<martix>but game wont start at all, comes at once I try to start the game
13:33<@Rubidium>what OS are you using?
13:33<martix>it worked fine untill yesterday
13:34<@Rubidium>and by a chance did you download some stuff via the in-game download thing?
13:34<martix>Not at the time
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13:34<martix>but I startet a plugin
13:35<martix>was some british city thingie,
13:35<martix>but I have used it before
13:35<martix>without problems
13:35<martix>and wouldnt a uninstall fix that?
13:36<@Rubidium>uninstall probably doesn't remove those files
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13:36<martix>where do I find them, then I can manually delete them?
13:36<@Rubidium>that's described in section 4.something of the readme
13:37<@Rubidium>it's probably on of the files in a folder content_download
13:38<@Rubidium>is the computer used by multiple users?
13:39<@Rubidium>okay, that makes rights issues less likely. Then I've got no idea what the cause of the problem actually is. I only know that it can find a .tar at one moment but can't open it slightly later.
13:41<@Rubidium>anyway, I can reproduce it locally with removing any read rights from such a file
13:41<martix>will the file im looking for end at .grf?
13:42<@Rubidium>no, it ends with .tar
13:43<martix>and openttd dosnt put any files(except savegames) in other folder locations?
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13:44<@Rubidium>generally not
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19427 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Codechange: gracefully handle the case where we can't open a .tar file.
13:46<martix>but what I cant understand is why it wont work after uninstall/reinstall:(
13:46<@Rubidium>because the file that causes the problem isn't removed from your home directory
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13:46<martix>install it at another directory might help then?
13:47<@Rubidium>no, because then it will still be looking in your home directory
13:47<@Rubidium>you just need to remove the broken file from there or wait till 1.0.0-RC3
13:48<martix>and home directory is i.e. c:\users\<username> ?
13:48<martix>think ive found some files
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13:58*andythenorth back to looking at industry registers
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14:05<martix>hi again
14:05<martix>Just wanted to say that I solved problem
14:05<martix>Thanks alot for help:)
14:05<martix>Problem was: computer synced with my home server, and data files for newgrf had synced with thatone.
14:06<martix>so thanks for getting me on track:)
14:06<martix>I really appreciate the job ur doin with open ttd, so a donation will come soon:)
14:07<@Rubidium>okay, nice to hear it's solved
14:07<martix>thank you:)
14:07<martix>have a nice day
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14:30<Jolteon>I just thought of something that'd be kinda neat.
14:30<Jolteon>You know how with stations you can view its catchment area?
14:30<Jolteon>It'd be neat if you could view the 'area' a local council / authority owns.
14:31<Jolteon>So we know exactly the boundaries they claims as their own for 'pleasing' them, so to speak.
14:31*andythenorth Jolteon is right
14:32<@Rubidium>you thought of it or you found the patch that implements that on the forum?
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14:36<Jolteon>Rubidium: thought of it.
14:36<Jolteon>I was screaming at this Single Player game and this damned council being a total b*tch
14:37<Jolteon>I don't know how 'patches' work, anyway :P
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14:44<fjb>The info tool (under the question mark) tells you which local authority (if any) cares for a tile.
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19428 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 11 changes by kasakg
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changes by josesun
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: croatian - 14 changes by UnderwaterHesus, VoyagerOne
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by fumantsu
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14:59*andythenorth blew up ottd
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15:14<fjb>Poor ottd.
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16:07<ccfreak2k>OFTC keeps forgetting that I identified.
16:13<andythenorth>is it safe to assume a default value of 0 for industry persistent storage?
16:16<frosch123>but not for temporary storage
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16:22<Jolteon>bleh, I always de-sync on servers when joining them D:
16:22<Jolteon>Usually when their are players already on it.
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16:30*andythenorth blew up ottd
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16:52<enr1x>hello everyone
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16:54<fjb>hello someone
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16:55<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:56<PeterT>Hello Nite_Owl
16:56<Nite_Owl>Hello PeterT
16:59<andythenorth>hi hi
16:59<Nite_Owl>Hello andythenorth
17:00<andythenorth>oh renum how I love thee
17:00<andythenorth>renum doesn't like my use of 0 as a value. solution? use 1...
17:01<PeterT> <-- fonsinchen, you have a dead link in your report
17:01<andythenorth>to be fair to renum, I think it faces a hard task :)
17:06-!-enr1x [~kiike@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:07*frosch123 wonders about facebook's intention to embarrass its users
17:08<@Rubidium>isn't a facebook like a facepalm, but with a book instead of a palm?
17:09<frosch123>yeah, also got that impression
17:12<@Belugas>night all
17:12<PeterT>good night, Belugas
17:13<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:14<Muxy>Yop men
17:16<Nite_Owl>just being courteous
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17:55*andythenorth blew up ottd
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17:59<Zuu>I've blewn up a video analyser tool many times today.
17:59*andythenorth decides that players who want to deliver *insane* amounts of cargo to an industry can basically....piss off :P
18:00<Zuu>There is no documentation what kind of movies it supports, so all I can do is to test and sometimes it crashes and sometimes it does not but the video does not look good. :-)
18:00<andythenorth>I shall take their cargo and put it in some kind dev/null :)
18:00<Zuu>Why not some kind of strike. Eg. the workers put off their work for one month? :-p
18:01*andythenorth ponders the idea
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>that'll teach those coopers :p
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>damn these cats are fast...
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18:09<SirSquidness>andythenorth: I don't want to piss off :( I like my insane amounts of cargo!
18:10<andythenorth>SirSquidness: what counts as insane for you?
18:11<SirSquidness>hitting the cargo per month limit of a factory
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18:11<SirSquidness>next time I try for it, it will be two factories clo7e to each other
18:12<andythenorth>SirSquidness: does that limit happen to be about 21,000 units?
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>great... now i have a wet cat...
18:12<SirSquidness>27 and a half-ish
18:13<andythenorth>makes sense
18:13<fjb>andythenorth: FIRS textile mill accepts engineering supplies instead of manufacturing supplies.
18:13<andythenorth>fjb: not in recent nightlies ;)
18:14<andythenorth>we're around about r611 or so I think
18:14<andythenorth>there will be new goodies soon as well
18:15<fjb>andythenorth: Oh, this is r611. But the game was created with an earlier version. Maybe that is an left over.
18:15<andythenorth>fjb: yup, some things don't change when the grf changes.
18:15<andythenorth>sorry :)
18:15<andythenorth>SirSquidness: I was going to cater for your needs, but it makes my brain ache. I can't increase the limit, but I can hold the cargo over and use it for the next production cycle. But I right now won't because it's quite a bit more code to write :|
18:16<SirSquidness>there's no poinut, really
18:16<SirSquidness>if one month it fikls, it's quite like5y to regularly fi5l
18:17<SirSquidness>so you'll get an ever increasing stockpile
18:17<andythenorth>there's a limit of about 65k on the stockpile anyway
18:17<SirSquidness>until even that hits 27.something
18:17<andythenorth>is the limit you see in default game 27k per month?
18:17<@Rubidium>just build a bigger factory
18:19<andythenorth>SirSquidness: but per month? (question will make sense in a minute)
18:19<SirSquidness>the most units per month a factory will output ir that
18:21<andythenorth>ok, so with 'gradual processing' on for newgrf industry, the game has 8 or 9 production cycles per month. Each of those is limited to to about 21k with 3 input cargos
18:22<andythenorth>so you could drop in about 168k of cargo to a FIRS industry (if my maths is right)
18:22<andythenorth>per month
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18:22<SirSquidness>I need to gdet me that grf
18:23<andythenorth>not finished yet :)
18:23<andythenorth>there is a nightly, but wait for the 0.1 release
18:24<andythenorth>SirSquidness: I haven't tested with *insane* cargo deliveries, I can't be bothered :)
18:24<andythenorth>it should work though
18:25<@Rubidium>there's a limit of cargo that can be transported per tile; the per industry limit is 'just' because the number of tiles of the industry
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>it's apparently 255 items of cargo per tile every 256 ticks
18:26<andythenorth>does that limit apply even to newgrf industry?
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>due to the way the tileloop works, the difference of 8 or 9 times a month evens out
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18:27<@Rubidium>andythenorth: I assume it does
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18:28<andythenorth>hey ho. well I did some extra work to try and accommodate insane cargo delivery, but not too much. If it works, good, if not...someone else can fix it :)
18:30<andythenorth>"Cargo waiting to be processed" is an inappropriate string for what my code is actually doing. But I need gradual processing :|
18:32*andythenorth blew up ottd. Again.
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18:41<__ln__>in any case it is interesting where a world famous football player flies for surgery
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18:42<JakeGrimshaw>hello all
18:42<Nite_Owl>Hello JakeGrimshaw
18:43<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19429 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: when the title game contains an AIPL block the AI settinsg where overwritten by those from the title game
18:43<JakeGrimshaw>i don't suppose it is known when RC3 is likely to come out ? Are we talking days/weeks/months ?
18:43<andythenorth>closing one ticket seems to require two more to be written :o
18:44<andythenorth>(for FIRS, not RC3)!
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18:47<Yexo>JakeGrimshaw: days/weeks, not months
18:47<PeterT>JakeGrimshaw: April 1st
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19430 /branches/1.0/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] When the title game contains an AIPL block the AI settings where overwritten by those from the title game (r19429)
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Gracefully handle the case where we cannot open a .tar file (r19427)
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [YAPP] A train on a bridge/tunnel was not always found when checking for trains on a reserved path (r19425)
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] The AI Debug window did not open if an AI or library fails to compile when loading a savegame [FS#3669] (r19395)
18:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Change: Make the drive through and cargo list consistency checks only run when 'desync' debugging is enabled (r19403, r19398)
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18:54<JakeGrimshaw>oh, ok thanks
18:54<JakeGrimshaw>will nutracks be fixed in RC3 ?
18:56<PeterT>It's not broken, is it?
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18:59<JakeGrimshaw>i thought it wouldnt work in RC2, I got the error that other people got in the thread
18:59<JakeGrimshaw>about Action(0)
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19:26<Terkhen>good night
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19:28<PeterT>andythenorth: BANDIT?
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19:34<Nite_Owl>need to feed - later all
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19:55<iklucas>hi all
19:55<iklucas>how to join that channel?
19:58<iklucas>i am in:) nvm
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20:05<fjb>Strange question...
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20:15<PeterT>fjb: Not strange, I told him to join there on the forums
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21:22<PeterT>Hi roboboy
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 16 00:00:13 2010