--- | Log | opened Tue Mar 23 00:00:24 2010 |
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03:40 | <Terkhen> | good morning |
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03:45 | <andythenorth> | morning Terkhen |
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04:33 | <Yexo> | good morning |
04:34 | <TrueBrain> | and a beautiful morning it is |
04:34 | <planetmaker> | good morning all :-) |
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04:50 | <@Rubidium> | TrueBrain: I certainly can't say that about yesterday's morning, but yes... today's morning seems beautiful |
04:52 | * | andythenorth fog |
04:52 | <Terkhen> | fog here, too :/ |
04:52 | <planetmaker> | hazy here, but not foggy. |
04:53 | <TrueBrain> | sun! |
04:53 | <TrueBrain> | blue sky |
04:53 | <TrueBrain> | not a cloud in sight |
04:53 | <TrueBrain> | wet floor |
04:53 | <TrueBrain> | the latter strongly suggest there had to be fog here too |
04:55 | <@Rubidium> | or that someone was cleaning the floor |
04:55 | <TrueBrain> | not under the benches? |
04:55 | <TrueBrain> | highly unlikely |
04:56 | <TrueBrain> | but I have no way of disproving your claim |
04:58 | <@Rubidium> | it wasn't foggy at 07:00 here, but then... that's a dozen dozens of km from here :) |
04:58 | <TrueBrain> | I am more close to the sea :p |
05:00 | <@Rubidium> | but... I'm only like 15 km from the Dreilandersee! :) |
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05:07 | <TrueBrain> | I was talking about REAL seas |
05:08 | <@Rubidium> | TrueBrain: but... just ask planetmaker to confirm it's a real See! |
05:08 | <planetmaker> | :-P |
05:08 | <planetmaker> | zee or sea or See? |
05:09 | <TrueBrain> | like Germans have any knowledge about seas |
05:09 | <planetmaker> | or mare, Meer,... ? |
05:09 | <TrueBrain> | lake |
05:09 | <planetmaker> | pfft... ! |
05:11 | <planetmaker> | the Netherlands have according to the CIA fact book 2009 451 km of coast line while Germany has 2389 km ;-) |
05:11 | <planetmaker> | Now it's your turn. |
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05:11 | <TrueBrain> | so we are much closer to the sea we have; therefor, you only have a broad knowledge about seas, while we have real knowledge about seas |
05:11 | <TrueBrain> | your turn |
05:12 | <@Rubidium> | planetmaker: did they include the parts where the Germans dug away the beach? |
05:12 | <planetmaker> | I'd bet that doesn't change much :-) |
05:12 | * | andythenorth lives on an island |
05:12 | <planetmaker> | TrueBrain, your statement doesn't derive from my citation |
05:13 | <planetmaker> | logic fail ;-) |
05:13 | <TrueBrain> | how does it not? |
05:13 | <planetmaker> | more coast line = further from the sea? |
05:13 | * | andythenorth industry window text time again |
05:13 | <TrueBrain> | owh, not that closer |
05:13 | <TrueBrain> | closer as in relationship |
05:14 | <Yexo> | andythenorth: what information do you need this time? |
05:14 | <TrueBrain> | as in: because we have little, we are more intense with it, and because you have more, you are much broader with it |
05:14 | <@Rubidium> | not to mention that the Dutch are really good in artificially reducing the coast line |
05:14 | <andythenorth> | Yexo: this is just me writing strings to show the player, it's not debug stuff :) |
05:14 | <planetmaker> | @calc 348672 / 2389 |
05:14 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 145.948932608 |
05:14 | <planetmaker> | @calc 33893 / 451 |
05:14 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 75.1507760532 |
05:15 | <andythenorth> | saw mill: 8t wood in = 6t lumber out. Sound ok? |
05:15 | <planetmaker> | granted, you have less sqkm land per km coast line ;-) |
05:15 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth, yep |
05:15 | <TrueBrain> | so, you have no right of speak when ti comes to seas |
05:15 | <TrueBrain> | (now that is a nice derative :p) |
05:15 | <planetmaker> | of course I do. |
05:16 | <andythenorth> | aluminium plant: 8t bauxite = 4t aluminium |
05:16 | <TrueBrain> | andythenorth: stop talking about OpenTTD stuff, it is annoying |
05:16 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth, sounds fine, too |
05:16 | <andythenorth> | sorry, I'll move my questions to #completelyofftopic :P |
05:16 | <andythenorth> | 8t scrap metal = 8t aluminium |
05:16 | <TrueBrain> | good :) |
05:17 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth, 8t scrap metal = 4t aluminum 4t steel |
05:17 | <andythenorth> | not from one industry it doesn't |
05:17 | <andythenorth> | but yes |
05:17 | <TrueBrain> | why is the one machine in this whole darn building I need, offline :( |
05:18 | <andythenorth> | fertiliser plant: 8t chemicals = 6t fertiliser? |
05:18 | <planetmaker> | good that Murphy is currently at your place. That's sufficiently far away from here, TrueBrain ;-) |
05:18 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth, I'd make that 1:1 |
05:18 | <planetmaker> | it's not like fertilizer needs much processing |
05:18 | <andythenorth> | fine |
05:18 | <andythenorth> | balances better with some other stuff |
05:19 | <planetmaker> | well. Of course always what fits better game play. Screw realism |
05:19 | <andythenorth> | glass works: 8t sand = 5t output |
05:24 | <@peter1138> | waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
05:24 | <@peter1138> | monodevelop won't start :( |
05:24 | <andythenorth> | yup |
05:24 | * | andythenorth thought something like that was how most days start :) |
05:25 | <andythenorth> | one FIRS ticket left (again) :| |
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05:27 | * | andythenorth waves at DanMacK |
05:30 | <DanMacK> | Heyas |
05:30 | <DanMacK> | Intro dates... you rock dude |
05:30 | <andythenorth> | anyone got Railroad Tycoon 3 installed? I am trying to remember how the industry windows showed production ratios |
05:33 | <Terkhen> | and gravel :P |
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05:34 | <DanMacK> | heh |
05:35 | <andythenorth> | which makes more sense: |
05:35 | <andythenorth> | "8t wood = 5t lumber" |
05:35 | <andythenorth> | "1t wood = 0.625t lumber" |
05:35 | <andythenorth> | "" |
05:35 | <@peter1138> | found the solution |
05:35 | <@peter1138> | run it with -nologo |
05:35 | <@peter1138> | :o |
05:36 | <Terkhen> | 8t wood = ... |
05:36 | <planetmaker> | ^ |
05:36 | <andythenorth> | ok |
05:36 | <planetmaker> | integer ratios are nicer to remember |
05:42 | <@Rubidium> | pie! :) |
05:42 | * | andythenorth would like a pie |
05:45 | <planetmaker> | apple pie! With cinnamon. |
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05:49 | <andythenorth> | bah. game blew up |
05:49 | <planetmaker> | not good |
05:58 | <@Rubidium> | he's probaby just triggering the same thing over and over again and is reporting the bug mb-style :) |
05:59 | <andythenorth> | it's always the same thing - change strings, the game blows up |
06:00 | <andythenorth> | totally expected :) |
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06:03 | <planetmaker> | Rubidium, now, that was truely mean! ;-) |
06:03 | <@peter1138> | what, in his head? |
06:04 | <@peter1138> | heh, big gravel pit |
06:04 | <@Rubidium> | planetmaker: yes, that was a very average reply |
06:04 | * | andythenorth can't be bothered to put the production values into strings dynamically |
06:05 | <planetmaker> | btw... Yexo is the TTDP wiki missing something like an action0 airports meanwhile? |
06:05 | <planetmaker> | I recently skimmed over the changelog and found something which could mean that, but I didn't look to closely back then |
06:06 | <planetmaker> | doh... I mean NewGRF wiki :-) |
06:06 | <planetmaker> | Not to give false names :-P |
06:09 | <@peter1138> | didn't mb report all bugs in some obscure german forum about 5 years ago? |
06:10 | <andythenorth> | if you'd read that forum you would know that it was at least 7 years ago |
06:11 | <andythenorth> | and that the discussion is closed |
06:11 | <andythenorth> | he did make some nice ships though. hours of fun with those. And he taught me some stuff about hex |
06:12 | <planetmaker> | he... do you read that forum, andythenorth ? |
06:13 | <andythenorth> | I've no idea where that forum is. Which means I have no idea what 'the answers' are |
06:13 | <andythenorth> | :) |
06:15 | <planetmaker> | tehehe |
06:15 | <@Rubidium> | so you haven't seen his vapourware threads yet |
06:16 | <@Rubidium> | not to mention the stupidness of his versioning system |
06:18 | <@Rubidium> | next DB(set)XL seems to be 0.9 |
06:19 | <planetmaker> | seems like |
06:19 | <@Rubidium> | and he'll probably releases it around the first beta of TTDP's 2.6 branch |
06:19 | <planetmaker> | but so was the next OpenTTD expected to be 0.8 when OpenGFX 0.2.1 was released :-P |
06:20 | <planetmaker> | ok, now I was mean ;-) |
06:22 | <@Rubidium> | planetmaker: but the next release was somewhat expected back then |
06:23 | <planetmaker> | of course :-) |
06:23 | <planetmaker> | [11:20] |
06:23 | <planetmaker> | <planetmaker> ok, now I was mean ;-) |
06:24 | * | andythenorth thinks errors are going to happen if production values are not put into strings dynamically :( |
06:24 | <@peter1138> | the german forum does have a nice mouse cursor, though |
06:24 | <@peter1138> | well, the first bit, not the actual forum :s |
06:25 | <andythenorth> | grr |
06:25 | <@peter1138> | quoi? |
06:25 | <planetmaker> | why, andythenorth ? |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | blew up the game :| |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: I could use some help with string IDs in FIRS some time |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | not urgent, but I'm not sure if we have enough, or if they are allocated in sane ranges |
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06:29 | <planetmaker> | yep, let's schedule that for one evening; I can't right now promise a particular one, but yes :-) |
06:31 | <andythenorth> | opinions on this? |
06:31 | <andythenorth> | http://tt-foundry.com/misc/test_texts.png |
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06:42 | <andythenorth> | ^ 'this' being the text in the industry window |
06:42 | <andythenorth> | Does it make sense? |
06:43 | <Terkhen> | I think so |
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06:46 | <geirha> | andythenorth: Will farms require farming suplies before it can produce anything then? |
06:46 | <andythenorth> | no |
06:46 | <andythenorth> | FIRS isn't too evil :) |
06:47 | <geirha> | It just increases production perhaps? or you just get cash from transporting them to a farm ...? |
06:47 | <OwenS`Phone> | Both |
06:48 | <andythenorth> | geirha: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/farm_supplies.png |
06:49 | <geirha> | Cool. I'm gonna download FIRS and give it a try when I have the time to play :) |
06:49 | <andythenorth> | there will be a 0.1 release today |
06:50 | <OwenS`Phone> | And on bananas?:) |
06:50 | <andythenorth> | OwenS`Phone: yes, I think so |
06:50 | <andythenorth> | can I be bothered to do all the industry texts before a release? |
06:52 | <OwenS`Phone> | Hopefully? :p |
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06:54 | <OwenS`Phone> | Will i get my code cleaned up tonight? Also hopefully |
06:56 | <OwenS`Phone> | Because then i can look at implementing complex but useful features :p |
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06:57 | <OwenS`Phone> | ...actually, arbritrary signal lookups shouldnt be bad once ive centralised signal removal and modification |
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06:58 | <OwenS`Phone> | And it will enable building really complex stations without extra sig al tracks :) |
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07:02 | <fjb> | Are that signals working like path signals or like pre signals for the conventional signals? |
07:03 | <andythenorth> | should the mini-map list industries in alphabetical order? |
07:03 | <OwenS`Phone> | Theyre a special form of combo pre |
07:03 | <fjb> | andythenorth: Yes, but in the selected language. ;-) |
07:03 | <OwenS`Phone> | Pbs doesnt havea definable red/green state, so would be rather different |
07:03 | <andythenorth> | fjb: hmm. I didn't think of that |
07:04 | <andythenorth> | that would need to be patched for, I can't do that in newgrf in a sane way |
07:04 | <andythenorth> | seems like a Terkhen style patch? :) |
07:05 | <fjb> | OwenS`Phone: Hm, then your signals are not of great use to me. I never use the old style signals because putting a signal behind the switsh is stupid and gives many problems. |
07:05 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19502 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail_type.h): |
07:05 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: -Codechange: During NewGRF loading, store rail type labels in temporary data and |
07:05 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: process after loading has finished. This avoids deactivated rail vehicles being |
07:05 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: reactivated if the climate property is set after the rail type property. |
07:06 | <andythenorth> | oil refinery |
07:06 | <andythenorth> | meh wrong fricking app |
07:06 | <OwenS`Phone> | Gotta run, bbl |
07:07 | <fjb> | andythenorth: I thought that it would not be possible now. It is not that important in the minimap. But the industry list would need some better sorting, or selecting only a subset of the industries. |
07:08 | <andythenorth> | there needs to be an in-game way to see what industries accept/produce a cargo |
07:08 | <andythenorth> | railroad tycoon had one, but I can't remember how it worked |
07:11 | <fjb> | Yes, that would be great. |
07:13 | <andythenorth> | filter on the industry list, similar to how vehicles filter cargo refits? |
07:13 | <andythenorth> | not the best gui in the world, but might work :| |
07:14 | <andythenorth> | 'someone' was working on the industry list the other day |
07:16 | <fjb> | Yes, something like that. That would be at least better than what we have now. |
07:17 | * | andythenorth wonders about a string code for the small font |
07:17 | <andythenorth> | 0E for those who were interested |
07:18 | * | andythenorth would it be helpful to see the cargo icons in the industry window? |
07:20 | <andythenorth> | poop |
07:20 | <fjb> | Hm, maybe, maybe not. They are really small. |
07:20 | <andythenorth> | small font size fucks with the line spacing on lines above |
07:23 | <planetmaker> | Small font size also might be hard to read :-) |
07:23 | <planetmaker> | Actually the screeny you showed from the industry windows looked quite fine to me... |
07:23 | <andythenorth> | it's fine, but it handles simple cases |
07:24 | <andythenorth> | I have some industries where 3 input cargos produce different output depending on combination |
07:24 | <planetmaker> | Different amount of output? Or different ratio of outputs? |
07:24 | <@peter1138> | hm |
07:24 | <planetmaker> | The latter would be... an unnecessary complication IMHO |
07:26 | <andythenorth> | different amount of output |
07:26 | <andythenorth> | i.e. steel mill etc |
07:27 | <planetmaker> | hm, ok. can you give me a pointer where to look up the ratios / conditions? May be source, may be elsewhere? |
07:27 | <andythenorth> | ratios are in individual industry templates |
07:27 | <planetmaker> | ok... steel mill of course :-) |
07:27 | <andythenorth> | what they mean depends on which production template they use |
07:27 | <andythenorth> | template A is simplest case - non-combining |
07:27 | <planetmaker> | which does steel use? |
07:27 | <andythenorth> | template B is steel mill, cement plant - combining |
07:28 | <andythenorth> | it's actually based on stupidly simple maths |
07:28 | <andythenorth> | it just adds up the ratios for cargos A, B, C *but* factoring in a grace period since last delivery for each cargo |
07:29 | <andythenorth> | so coal = 2/8, iron ore = 2/8, scrap metal = 4/8 |
07:29 | <andythenorth> | it took a *long* time to make it that simple :) |
07:32 | <planetmaker> | :-) |
07:33 | * | andythenorth improves the wording a little |
07:34 | <andythenorth> | in FIRS, if there are two output cargos, it's *always* a 50:50 split. |
07:34 | <andythenorth> | Do I really need to put that into each industry window? |
07:34 | <@Rubidium> | yes, in every industry window... even those that don't produce cargo at all :) |
07:35 | * | andythenorth takes that as a 'no' |
07:36 | <andythenorth> | improved: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/test_texts_2.png |
07:36 | <andythenorth> | I could do 'efficiency' instead of the integers, e.g 75% |
07:36 | <andythenorth> | and let players do the maths... |
07:37 | <planetmaker> | that works, too. If you keep it simple like 25%, 33%, 50%, 66% and 75% |
07:37 | <planetmaker> | maybe also the 20, 40, 60, 80% work. Everything else starts to get a pain ;-) |
07:39 | <@Rubidium> | yeah, and 22/7 is such a bad approximation |
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07:40 | * | andythenorth ponders |
07:41 | <andythenorth> | 'efficiency' can't be increased for every FIRS industry |
07:41 | <andythenorth> | the cargo chains get messy, and also it's better to keep some industries a bit dumb for fun gameplay |
07:42 | <andythenorth> | if a sawmill is always 75% efficient, do players start asking how they can improve that? It's just % transported all over again, but worse |
07:43 | <@Rubidium> | andythenorth: burnable waste for the power station :) |
07:43 | <andythenorth> | :) |
07:43 | <planetmaker> | having an industry always producing only 75% of the amount of incoming cargo is fine. |
07:43 | <planetmaker> | or any other amount |
07:43 | <andythenorth> | sawmills power themselves from their own waste |
07:43 | <planetmaker> | Standard power plants have 0% efficiency |
07:44 | * | andythenorth ponders |
07:44 | <andythenorth> | this '% transported' thing that's always been there |
07:44 | <andythenorth> | very few people seem to understand it |
07:44 | <andythenorth> | it doesn't affect production in FIRS anyway apart from a few limited cases |
07:45 | <andythenorth> | perhaps it could be hidden with a special flag? |
07:45 | <planetmaker> | % transported is something else. |
07:45 | <planetmaker> | that's the percentage which is delivered to stations, not? |
07:45 | <andythenorth> | do industries only provide that % to stations? So the rest is sent to /dev/null? |
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07:47 | <@Rubidium> | planetmaker: yes, that's the percentage going to stations... more or less |
07:47 | <@Rubidium> | depending on rounding and the likes |
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07:52 | <TrueBrain> | blegh, I dislike VHDL already, and I just started to work with it .. takes 50 minutes to generate ... |
07:54 | <@peter1138> | porting openttd? :D |
07:55 | <TrueBrain> | hahaha |
07:55 | <TrueBrain> | in theory ... |
07:55 | <TrueBrain> | there are only 5 buttons on this board |
07:55 | <TrueBrain> | (FPGA) |
07:55 | <TrueBrain> | I have VGA, DDR, even Network |
07:55 | <Hirundo> | andythenorth: Callbac 145 is yours |
07:55 | <TrueBrain> | but currently porting OpenDUNE :p |
07:56 | <TrueBrain> | mostly because this compiler does understand ISO C ;) |
07:56 | <TrueBrain> | does OpenTTD compile with GCC 3.4.1? |
07:56 | <@Rubidium> | yes |
07:56 | <TrueBrain> | then in theory it should be possible |
07:56 | <TrueBrain> | well, the linux kernel support microblaze, which fully runs on these FPGAs |
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07:57 | <TrueBrain> | but ... I think we can even make it more efficient :p |
07:57 | <TrueBrain> | if we synthesis seperate code for unit handlers and stuff .. lol :p peter1138, you give me crazy ideas :) |
08:00 | <SpComb^> | OpenTTD in hardware? |
08:00 | <TrueBrain> | yeah, why not :p |
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08:01 | <@Rubidium> | with NewGRFs as co-processors |
08:01 | <TrueBrain> | doesnt have co-processors |
08:02 | <TrueBrain> | just add it as pcore |
08:02 | <TrueBrain> | makes it optional ;) |
08:02 | <Goulp> | Hi men |
08:02 | <Goulp> | Rubidium: do you have information about a vehicle becoming bad like in "Disconnecting Road Vehicle" ? |
08:06 | <planetmaker> | yes. Incompatible newgrf loaded, Goulp |
08:07 | <Goulp> | planetmaker: do you think generictrams v4 is an incompatible newgrf ? |
08:08 | <planetmaker> | maybe wrt v3. |
08:08 | <planetmaker> | you started possibly with another newgrf |
08:08 | <Goulp> | no |
08:08 | <planetmaker> | got a savegame? |
08:08 | <Goulp> | the savegame i have is on flyspray, but vehicle is already bad |
08:08 | <planetmaker> | I somehow seem to have heard the same... probably there^ |
08:09 | <planetmaker> | Well... if you start with a corrupted savegame... |
08:09 | <Goulp> | and my question is : how bad is the vehicle and how can a vehicle become bad ? |
08:09 | <Goulp> | no server has not been started with a corrupt savegame |
08:10 | <@Rubidium> | if we knew how the vehicle became bad we would have fixed it already |
08:10 | <planetmaker> | and which is your FS entry you talk about? |
08:11 | <Goulp> | but becoming bad is a vehicle state ? |
08:11 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
08:12 | <andythenorth> | capping *primary production* in early years of game might not be a bad idea |
08:12 | <@Rubidium> | depends on how you define state, but yes |
08:12 | <Goulp> | then game logic is able to recognize bad vehicle ? |
08:12 | <@Rubidium> | it is somewhat of a state |
08:12 | <@Rubidium> | yes it is |
08:13 | <Goulp> | then if its able to recognize them, would it be possible to "teleport" them into the first depot avaible |
08:13 | <@Rubidium> | yes, but that doesn't fix the problem |
08:14 | <Goulp> | yeap but it will avoid server stop |
08:15 | <@peter1138> | and you don't have a savegame from before? |
08:15 | <Goulp> | and sure, it will mask the problem of vehicle becoming bad |
08:15 | <Goulp> | in my savegame the viehicle is already bad |
08:15 | <@peter1138> | hence "from before" |
08:16 | <Goulp> | but when teleported into the depot, logic can "format" the vehicle to a good state, cant it ? |
08:17 | <@Rubidium> | yeah, and totally lost |
08:18 | <@Rubidium> | "how did that vehicle enter my completely dedicated ... network?" |
08:18 | <Goulp> | yeap, i dont know |
08:18 | <Goulp> | problem of vehicle becoming bad not solved, but masked, but game does not stop |
08:18 | <@Rubidium> | "oh yes that... something that rarely ever happens caused us to write code to teleport vehicles to a 'random' depot" |
08:19 | <Goulp> | as said on flyspray, i got this error twice |
08:19 | <Goulp> | with 0.7.5 |
08:19 | <Goulp> | or 0.7.x, i dont remember the first time |
08:20 | <@Rubidium> | so it already happens for something like a year and now you tell us for the first time |
08:20 | <Goulp> | i talked about it here, but nobody seems to be aware of it |
08:20 | <Goulp> | and some nice guy told me it was a newgrf trouble |
08:21 | <@Rubidium> | so what's so special about your server that it happens there? |
08:21 | <Goulp> | may be it's a goulp server |
08:21 | <@Rubidium> | Goulp: 99% of the times it is NewGRF trouble because people loaded the game with different NewGRFs |
08:22 | <Goulp> | yeap ok , i agree with that newgrf expl, but not in my case |
08:22 | <Goulp> | as i didnt make stranges things |
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08:23 | <Goulp> | ok men, it's my lunch time, will be back in few minutes... |
08:24 | * | Rubidium is gone... maybe I'll see you later today, maybe not |
08:24 | <planetmaker> | bye bye Rubidium |
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08:27 | <OwenS`Phone> | Fjb: im gonna add restriction progeams to progsigs at some point too, which will be possible to attach to pbs |
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08:28 | <OwenS`Phone> | They'll affect the pathfinder rather than signal state |
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08:32 | <OwenS`Phone> | Then you'll be able to say 'if train length greater than 6, do not allow to pass' |
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08:50 | <@peter1138> | hurr, and now compiz is not working :s |
08:57 | <SpComb^> | how will you survive without |
08:58 | <jordi> | yeah, sounds terrible. I say TERRIBLE. |
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09:02 | <geirha> | I don't know what I would do without wobbly windows |
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09:05 | <Wizzleby> | wobbly windows are fun |
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09:18 | <@Belugas> | hello |
09:18 | <andythenorth> | hi |
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10:27 | <andythenorth> | possible mac maintainer :o |
10:27 | <andythenorth> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47723 |
10:27 | <andythenorth> | wonder if he's any goo |
10:27 | <andythenorth> | d |
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10:40 | <@peter1138> | unliely |
10:40 | <@peter1138> | +k |
10:42 | <andythenorth> | his typing might be better than ours :P |
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10:47 | <planetmaker> | hehe. He seems as experienced as myself given his reply |
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11:12 | <planetmaker> | <Pirate87> it was: Game Save Failed?Internal error: zlib returned error code <-- wouldn't it make sense to report the error code which was returned? |
11:13 | <__ln__> | no. |
11:15 | <TrueBrain> | tss, that OSX 'person' uploaded a binary with the original grf files in them |
11:16 | <TrueBrain> | I always love removing stuff from the forum :) |
11:17 | <TrueBrain> | and I really wonder why he didnt make a dmg file, but a zip ... bad OSX standard |
11:19 | * | andythenorth can't remember why FIRS has 'gravel' not 'stone'? |
11:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | is that a difference? |
11:20 | <+glx> | size of elements ;) |
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11:21 | <andythenorth> | makes a difference if anyone wants to get picky about cement production |
11:21 | <__ln__> | andythenorth: your 'possible mac maintainer' looks pretty unskilled. |
11:21 | <andythenorth> | cement is produced from calcium carbonate. in the UK 'gravel' normally means something else |
11:22 | <andythenorth> | __ln__: meh. hey ho |
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11:24 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth, possibly as 'gravel' is already a defined cargo? |
11:25 | <andythenorth> | could be |
11:25 | <andythenorth> | I know there was a reason |
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11:27 | <planetmaker> | well... but that's the wrong reason ;-) |
11:27 | <planetmaker> | gravel is defined by FIRS according to the newgrf wiki |
11:28 | <planetmaker> | there's clay and lime stone and sand - all of those three don't quite fit. |
11:28 | <andythenorth> | think pikka has gravel in PBI, but I don't think he implemented the cargo label |
11:28 | <planetmaker> | maybe potash |
11:28 | <andythenorth> | hmmm.....no :) |
11:28 | <planetmaker> | might be. Dunno |
11:29 | <planetmaker> | replace gravel by uranium ore |
11:29 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: got time to test a FIRS build quickly? |
11:29 | <andythenorth> | I've set texts for secondary industry, need to know if they make sense |
11:29 | <planetmaker> | I have here very close by a radioactive waste disposal... :-P they need to get rid of it. Sure,... |
11:29 | <planetmaker> | just FIRS trunk or something else? |
11:29 | <andythenorth> | you need r745 |
11:30 | <andythenorth> | which is tip right now |
11:30 | <andythenorth> | list of industries that now have texts is here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/824 |
11:30 | <planetmaker> | I don't need to run it, do I? :-) That'd look bad at work :-P |
11:31 | <planetmaker> | Compiling is fine ;-) |
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11:32 | <planetmaker> | ok, built |
11:32 | <planetmaker> | Except a warning 86 on sprite 967 everything seems fine |
11:32 | <andythenorth> | yeah, that's the 5F not recognised issue |
11:33 | <planetmaker> | yep |
11:33 | <andythenorth> | when it's appropriate, have a look at the industry texts |
11:33 | <planetmaker> | what shall I look / grep for? |
11:34 | <andythenorth> | do they make sense? Try the steel mill for example....they're all in lang7F |
11:34 | <andythenorth> | STR_INFO_STEELMILL |
11:35 | <planetmaker> | They do make sense. Though one could shorten it: Production is cumulative wrt input cargos |
11:35 | <andythenorth> | I wondered about that |
11:35 | <andythenorth> | I don't want to give players too much info. They don't need it, it doesn't affect game play |
11:36 | <planetmaker> | Or one could skip the detailed math examples completely |
11:37 | <planetmaker> | "\98Cargo production:\0D 2t per 8t iron ore delivered\0D" |
11:37 | <planetmaker> | " 2t per 8t coal delivered\0D" |
11:37 | <planetmaker> | " 4t per 8t scrap metal delivered\0D" |
11:37 | <planetmaker> | "\0DProduction stacks if cargos are delivered within a month of each other." |
11:37 | <planetmaker> | The detailed explanation would be an issue for the manual. |
11:38 | <andythenorth> | Thanks |
11:38 | <planetmaker> | "Creates glass products such as bottles, jars and window panes" |
11:39 | <planetmaker> | ^ Wouldn't "Produces glass products such as bottles, jars and wondow panes" sound better? |
11:39 | <planetmaker> | I'm no native speaker, but to me factories don't "create" but "produce" |
11:39 | <andythenorth> | ok I'll change those |
11:40 | <planetmaker> | cement plant goes by the same rules as steel mill |
11:41 | <planetmaker> | as does brewery(?) |
11:42 | <planetmaker> | what's the difference between STR_INFO_POWERSTATION_0 and _1 ? |
11:42 | <planetmaker> | colour only? |
11:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | just for reference: delivering 8t coal gives you 2t steel, delivering 8t coal and 8t ore gives you 8t steel? |
11:43 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: yes |
11:43 | <andythenorth> | 50% efficiency with those two cargos |
11:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i assume scrap metal is hard to come by? |
11:44 | <planetmaker> | not really IIRC |
11:44 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: depends on how many scrap yards are on the map |
11:44 | <andythenorth> | production for scrap yards starts out quite low |
11:45 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: I'm |<--->| this close to releasing 0.1, you can have a test for yourself soon :) |
11:45 | <andythenorth> | I can make tweaks for 0.2 |
11:46 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: yes the power station texts are just different colour - to give a warning within 'n' months |
11:46 | <planetmaker> | nice. |
11:46 | <andythenorth> | also 'Produces glass products' is that a tautology? |
11:48 | <andythenorth> | merchandise? wares? |
11:48 | <planetmaker> | Manufactures glass products ;-) |
11:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | bottles? |
11:49 | <andythenorth> | Manufactures is confusing because it produces Manufacturing Supplies :) |
11:49 | <andythenorth> | items? |
11:49 | <planetmaker> | :-) |
11:49 | <planetmaker> | You're the English man. I like 'items' |
11:49 | <andythenorth> | items will do |
11:50 | <planetmaker> | probably they mainly produce kitsch |
11:50 | <@peter1138> | things |
11:50 | <andythenorth> | Otherwise a word stemmed on 'product' is used 4 times in one industry window |
11:50 | <@peter1138> | items |
11:50 | <@peter1138> | ware |
11:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | gnarf... my computer is too slow... |
11:50 | <andythenorth> | 'stuff' |
11:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm compiling wine and it takes ages |
11:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | people telling me it gets faster with ccache, but it doesn't seem to do so |
11:50 | <@peter1138> | although glassware generally refers to drinking implements |
11:50 | <andythenorth> | 'stuff' |
11:50 | <andythenorth> | :) |
11:51 | <andythenorth> | "This industry produces stuff" |
11:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that sounds about right :) |
11:51 | * | andythenorth renames *all* FIRS cargos to 'stuff' |
11:51 | <planetmaker> | sources of shards |
11:51 | <andythenorth> | that'll make vehicle refits easier |
11:51 | <@peter1138> | randomise to item, stuff and thing |
11:52 | <planetmaker> | Don't forget *something* and *anything* |
11:52 | <planetmaker> | maybe also *nothing* |
11:52 | <andythenorth> | I suppose for gameplay reasons, we could have 'stuff' and 'black stuff' (coal, oil') |
11:52 | * | andythenorth ponders a FIRS easter eff |
11:52 | <andythenorth> | ummm |
11:52 | <andythenorth> | egg /s |
11:53 | <Sevalecan> | coal isn't black? |
11:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | on easter you transport "red eggs", "black eggs" etc.? |
11:53 | <planetmaker> | not when ignited or burnt down |
11:53 | <@peter1138> | shiny stuff |
11:53 | <Sevalecan> | planetmaker: which, of course, is the form they usually want it delivered in |
11:53 | <@peter1138> | you have coal delivered burning? |
11:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Sevalecan: around here, coal is brown... |
11:55 | <planetmaker> | And Kohl is either green, yellow or purple |
11:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: around here, the "green" Kohl is also brown :) |
11:57 | <@peter1138> | i suppose snow isn't white either |
11:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | not currently, no :) |
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11:59 | <planetmaker> | :-) |
11:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grünkohl <--- "Regional wird er auch Braunkohl [...] genannt." |
12:00 | <planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, but "regional" should only be in my town, otherwise "Grünkohl" |
12:00 | <planetmaker> | but... it's actually green ;-) |
12:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: "regional" stretches out pretty far... |
12:01 | <planetmaker> | well... as I know, Braunschweig is where it's Braunkohl and elsewhere it's Grünkohl. |
12:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: i heard the expression in the eastern Harz region |
12:01 | <planetmaker> | but wiki tells otherwise. It's wrong! ;-) |
12:03 | <planetmaker> | peter1138, thx for the midi error explanation. |
12:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, Kohl can have many more colours |
12:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | white, for example |
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12:05 | <Ammler> | is it possible to distribute midi "patches" with the set? |
12:05 | <planetmaker> | yup. Or any, if exposed to the interior of a paint bottle |
12:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and "red" Kohl can even change colour depending on pH of the water :) |
12:06 | <planetmaker> | hehe :-) |
12:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Indikator-Blaukraut.JPG&filetimestamp=20090221083421 |
12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (that's why it's also called "blue" Kohl in some regions) |
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12:15 | <@Belugas> | mmh... so tempting to answer... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47722 |
12:15 | <@Belugas> | but... so useless to do, in the end... |
12:15 | <OwenS> | It was lovely to find a mouse arse sitting on the floor when I came in. Lovely |
12:17 | <OwenS> | Also: Chemistry experiments involving either Conc Acid or Ammonia suck (Both stink). Experiments involving both suck more; the ensuing cloud of dense smoke is horrendous |
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12:19 | <OwenS> | (Though it is fun to have a smoking sink) |
12:20 | * | Belugas is listening to Bloody Time Zones - Hard Castle |
12:22 | <OwenS> | Hmm... Do the errors in the NoAI debug window have to be in red? The reason I say this being that it makes them really difficult to read.. |
12:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what exactly is "conc acid"? |
12:25 | <OwenS> | Eddi|zuHause: Concentrated acid |
12:25 | <OwenS> | I'm being generic about the acid involved here, because most like to emit their gaseous form quite liberally... |
12:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | why not say that in the first place, instead of confusing all people speaking a foreign language? |
12:26 | <OwenS> | Because I'm so used to saying conc instead of concentrated; I didn't even spot it. |
12:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | which is 80% of people here... |
12:26 | <OwenS> | I probably confused most of the 20% with it as a first language too |
12:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | don't english people make "." at abbreviations? |
12:27 | <OwenS> | When speaking more formally, yes |
12:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | does the term "butter acid" mean anything to english speaking people? |
12:27 | <OwenS> | no |
12:28 | <@Belugas> | is it a derivative of lactic acid? |
12:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid <-- apparently that's the name... |
12:28 | <DJ_Nekkid> | Eddi|zuHause: it does to norwegians |
12:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | OwenS: it's the worst stinking of them all :) |
12:31 | <OwenS> | Hehe. Something to stay well away from. Like Hydrogen Sulfide :p |
12:33 | <@Belugas> | or my cat's littery |
12:34 | <andythenorth> | FIRS 0.1 will be quite incompatible with earlier nightlies. Break save games, maybe blow up ottd. |
12:34 | <andythenorth> | Should I bump the grf id? |
12:35 | <@Belugas> | i'd say so, yes |
12:35 | <@Belugas> | personnal opinion |
12:35 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth: yes, it's the safe way and will avoid trouble |
12:35 | <andythenorth> | ok |
12:36 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: the grfid is in makefile.config, hg doesn't seem to see it |
12:36 | <andythenorth> | or maybe it does |
12:36 | <planetmaker> | Might not be used in the (p)nfo... |
12:37 | <planetmaker> | hm, it *should* work |
12:38 | <andythenorth> | does work |
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13:33 | <planetmaker> | Rubidium: TrueBrain I'd like to use -RC3 in bananas... |
13:35 | <__ln__> | http://www.news.com.au/technology/gamecrush-lets-gamers-pay-to-play-with-girls/story-e6frfro0-1225844277216 |
13:35 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: check nutracks, that is rc3 |
13:36 | <planetmaker> | I can't check it. Not an openttdcoop newgrf |
13:37 | <Ammler> | oh, well, you can define RC3 with custom version and use the same as in the grf in dec |
13:37 | <planetmaker> | anyway... let's try r19446 as minimum version |
13:38 | <planetmaker> | uploaded |
13:38 | <planetmaker> | r600 can now only be downloaded with RC2 ;-) |
13:38 | <Ammler> | was never meant to be public, btw.... |
13:40 | <planetmaker> | Well, yes, it was ;-) |
13:40 | <planetmaker> | Testing |
13:42 | <TrueBrain> | planetmaker: use -RC2, they are identical |
13:43 | <TrueBrain> | and otherwise, indeed, custom values |
13:44 | <OwenS> | Hmm... Should I add a SIGNAL_STATE_BROKEN, for indicating broken programmable signals (I'd need graphics first, however :P ) |
13:47 | <andythenorth> | FIRS....0.1 released :) |
13:50 | <@Belugas> | CONGRATULATIONS! |
13:50 | <@Belugas> | ... sincerely... |
13:50 | <planetmaker> | very much indeed |
13:50 | <andythenorth> | much help given :) |
13:51 | <andythenorth> | much help needed :P |
13:52 | <OwenS> | OK... Can someone familiar with the saveload code please tell me how I'm supposed to bail out of loading a broken savegame? |
13:53 | <OwenS> | Hmm... actually... cleaning up after a bad load is gonna be quite difficult... |
13:53 | <OwenS> | Or actually not... phew |
13:53 | <Terkhen> | congratulations :) |
13:53 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: terkhen * r19503 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Feature: Sort industries alphabetically at the smallmap legend. |
13:54 | <andythenorth> | hey cool :) |
13:55 | <andythenorth> | saves me screwing with IDs for the same effect |
13:56 | <@Rubidium> | ofcourse it doesn't magically work for 1.0.0 |
13:57 | <Ammler> | Rubidium: but as you are a wizzard... |
13:58 | <@peter1138> | # a wizzard's staff has a knob on the end |
13:59 | <OwenS> | The guy on the forums complaining about his OpenTTD binary's size should see my 54MB one... |
14:00 | <@Rubidium> | OwenS: oh my 200 KiB link time warning about a single line of code |
14:00 | <OwenS> | Rubidium: Were you playing with Boost or something? :P |
14:01 | <@Rubidium> | OwenS: no, just with gcc+lto+openttd |
14:01 | <OwenS> | Heh |
14:01 | <@Rubidium> | OwenS: http://rbijker.net/openttd/log |
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14:02 | <OwenS> | Wait a minute... GOLD just decides to concatenate all of the include paths? O_O |
14:03 | <davis> | @seen Brianetta |
14:03 | <@DorpsGek> | davis: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 34 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Brianetta> I thought it was odd that they were selling rabbits in late November 2009, until I looked more closely and saw that they were reindeer |
14:04 | <@Rubidium> | OwenS: yeah, something like that... even files that don't know about the code that's being triggered in any way |
14:04 | * | OwenS hopes libllvm-gold.so is smarter |
14:07 | <@Rubidium> | and I'm not sure whether it's gold or just LTO |
14:07 | <OwenS> | It's libgcc-gold.so |
14:08 | <OwenS> | (or whatever its called) |
14:15 | <OwenS> | Opera's graphics designers must be busy. They redesign it for every release... |
14:20 | <davis> | <3 Opera |
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14:22 | <OwenS> | 10.5 isn't available for Linux yet :( |
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14:43 | * | PeterT wonders if it is time to release his merged CargoDist and IS2 |
14:44 | * | andythenorth hates the character limit on Bananas |
14:44 | <Prof_Frink> | CargoDIS2t? |
14:44 | <PeterT> | Perhaps |
14:44 | * | TrueBrain hates the characters which want to reach the limit on BaNaNaS :p |
14:44 | <PeterT> | I need to wait until IS2 is updated again |
14:45 | * | TrueBrain hugs andythenorth |
14:45 | <TrueBrain> | how much di you try to type? |
14:45 | <andythenorth> | 847 |
14:45 | <andythenorth> | I normally end up with about 1000 chars and have to edit |
14:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: translators * r19504 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt danish.txt): |
14:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
14:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 changes by Kayos |
14:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by silentStatic |
14:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by |
14:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by |
14:48 | <andythenorth> | gree |
14:48 | <andythenorth> | grrr even |
14:49 | * | andythenorth tries telegraph-ese |
14:49 | <andythenorth> | "stop" |
14:50 | <Sacro> | Hello Prof_Frink STOP How are you STOP |
14:52 | <andythenorth> | –....–––....–––––.... |
14:53 | <andythenorth> | 495 chars...I win |
14:53 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
14:53 | <andythenorth> | bananas disagrees and awards me fail |
14:53 | <andythenorth> | which is more likely to be good at counting? Bananas or my text editor :P |
14:53 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: FIRS 0.1!!!!!!!!!!! |
14:54 | <PeterT> | wooooo |
14:54 | <andythenorth> | indeed |
14:54 | <PeterT> | great job |
14:54 | <Sacro> | andythenorth: that's not valid morse code |
14:54 | <andythenorth> | does bananas count linebreaks or something? |
14:55 | <+glx> | of course :) |
14:55 | <Terkhen> | omitallspaces!thetextisstillreadable |
14:55 | <+glx> | but be happy it doesn't use windows EOL ;) |
14:56 | * | andythenorth wins at bananas |
14:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | do telegrams actually still exist? |
14:57 | * | andythenorth wonders about some kind of 'enhanced' info section for bananas. |
14:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i haven't seen one since the early 90's |
14:58 | <Prof_Frink> | Wotcha Sacro STOP Pretty good, went to Font last weekend STOP |
14:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | shouldn't "," also be a "STOP"? |
14:58 | * | andythenorth has not been climbing for too long. just nfo and baby poop around here |
15:00 | * | Prof_Frink hasn't been proper climbing since the 6th |
15:00 | <Prof_Frink> | Just plastic, ice and blodders. |
15:01 | <planetmaker> | andythenorth: then head off for the next gymnasium ;-) |
15:03 | * | andythenorth is tired. getting a release done was....work :o |
15:03 | <andythenorth> | what next :D |
15:04 | * | PeterT does an action, just to compete with andythenorth |
15:04 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: does your grf work in game yet? |
15:04 | <PeterT> | haven't tested it, still |
15:04 | <PeterT> | Hold on |
15:04 | <PeterT> | I'll do it now |
15:05 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: change one thing, compile, test, rinse, repeat |
15:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | HAHA... apparently the american army has to rework its education, because all the recruits are totally spoiled by 3d shooters, and have a totally wrong assumption on how battle works |
15:06 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: very strange, the name of the GRF in-game is "tscets" |
15:06 | <Jolteon> | what, real life isn't pick up gun, pull trigger, and kill. Eddi|zuHause? D: |
15:06 | <Jolteon> | GAMES LIE TO ME?> |
15:06 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: what? You don't respawn when you're killed? |
15:07 | <Jolteon> | 'He was on your side, moron!' 'Don't worry, he'll respawn any moment now' |
15:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, people seem to understand technic of guns better, but lack physical skills... |
15:07 | <Jolteon> | 'aaaaany moment now......' |
15:07 | <Jolteon> | '...or hum, maybe this is a no respawn world?' |
15:08 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: it probably won't appear, I have no introduction date set |
15:08 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: Also, this has encouraged me to try AI coding |
15:08 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: so set an intro date ;) |
15:08 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: Meh |
15:08 | <PeterT> | Fine :-P |
15:09 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: Action0, correct? |
15:09 | <andythenorth> | yes prop 00 for trains |
15:09 | <andythenorth> | you get handy escapes, which is nice |
15:09 | <andythenorth> | 00 \w01-01-1950 // date of introduction |
15:09 | <andythenorth> | otherwise you have to calculate days since year 0, then turn that into a word. not hard, but tedious |
15:10 | <PeterT> | where can I learn more about escapes on the wiki? |
15:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | PeterT: you can also use long format date, which is necessary for pre-1920 introduction |
15:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's a different property |
15:11 | <andythenorth> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed |
15:11 | <PeterT> | you mean http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains#Long_format_introduction_date_2A_? |
15:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes |
15:11 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: for RVs I always set both dates, just in case... |
15:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it needs a slightly different escape, too |
15:11 | <PeterT> | is that format DD-MM-YYYY? |
15:12 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: look in that page I sent you above ;) |
15:12 | <Eoin> | PeterT is GRF editing? |
15:12 | <Eoin> | hide yer grfs! |
15:13 | <PeterT> | Silence - I guess everyone is hiding their GRFs... |
15:14 | * | andythenorth is just waiting to hear your grf works in game :P |
15:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd use YYYY-MM-DD |
15:15 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: I'm encoding, but I got an error |
15:15 | <PeterT> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains#Long_format_introduction_date_2A_ |
15:15 | <PeterT> | Oh oops |
15:15 | <PeterT> | Encoding in temporary file cets.new |
15:15 | <PeterT> | Loading SPRITES\class20.pcxpressed:100% (Transparency:100%, Redundancy:100% |
15:15 | <PeterT> | Error: Sprite y extends beyond end of PCX file. |
15:15 | <PeterT> | File has 24 lines, sprite wants 0..25 |
15:15 | <andythenorth> | paste your action 1 |
15:16 | <andythenorth> | and all the real sprites |
15:16 | <PeterT> | http://paste.openttd.org/225386 |
15:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | possibly mixed up X and Y values |
15:17 | <PeterT> | I just pasted them from the wiki |
15:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | take the values from the PCX... |
15:18 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: the pcx is only 24px high. You've got a couple of y values of 26 |
15:19 | <PeterT> | that must be a bug on the wiki then! |
15:19 | <PeterT> | since you have the same templates as Pikka |
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15:19 | <andythenorth> | don't get caught out by the way: y and x dimensions are not in normal order (y is first) |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | just change the 26 to 24 on the 4th bytes of sprites 4 and 8 |
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15:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | PeterT: that doesn't mean the template wasn't moved around within the GRF... |
15:21 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: It's working |
15:21 | <PeterT> | Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, that's true |
15:21 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: got it in game? |
15:21 | <PeterT> | I'm copying files now |
15:22 | <PeterT> | rescanning |
15:22 | <PeterT> | now the name is "4 0101cets" |
15:23 | * | PeterT is a bit worried that Action0 is before sprites/*.pcx is loaded |
15:23 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: It "works"? |
15:24 | <andythenorth> | action 0 before real sprites is fine |
15:24 | <PeterT> | I mean, I've changed the vehicle with the ID I've set |
15:24 | <planetmaker> | [20:19] <PeterT> since you have the same templates as Pikka <-- I'm pretty sure those templates fit. At least they don't give glitches here when I copied them 1:1 a few days back |
15:24 | <PeterT> | but the sprites are the same |
15:24 | <PeterT> | it's just in a different order |
15:25 | <PeterT> | planetmaker: Maybe andythenorth changed them when he gave me his BROS sprites |
15:25 | <planetmaker> | yes, that may well be |
15:25 | <andythenorth> | those are taken from the bros guys....I don't know what they use :) |
15:25 | <PeterT> | hehe |
15:25 | <planetmaker> | All I'm saying is: the original templates work for me |
15:26 | <andythenorth> | don't obsess about it right now, you're just learning the importance of getting a good template before starting |
15:26 | <PeterT> | Did you read what I wrote about the GRF in-game? |
15:26 | <planetmaker> | I haven't tested all, but 6/8, 7/8, 8/8 and 9/8 look nice |
15:26 | <andythenorth> | I learnt about templates the hard way, even though Zephyris warned me :| |
15:26 | <planetmaker> | hehe @ andythenorth |
15:26 | <OwenS> | "Generated ProgSig-545263f-r19504.diff" :-D |
15:26 | <planetmaker> | I guess we all do at some stage |
15:27 | <OwenS> | (Just some code cleanups, mind) |
15:27 | <PeterT> | OwenS: Can you link me to your repo again? |
15:27 | <PeterT> | OwenS: and/or post the link in the first post on the forum |
15:27 | <OwenS> | http://eforge.e43.eu/p/ottd_progsigs/browse/progsig/ <-- Warnings about alpha software (That is, the repository browser, which is why I'm not linking) apply |
15:29 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: your grfid looks weird. It's bytes, but in quotes. |
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15:30 | <OwenS> | The diff is at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47690&p=865781#p865781 |
15:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | PeterT: grf-id can be a 4-letter string ("abcd") or a 4-byte sequence (01 02 03 04), or a mixture of both |
15:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but not bytes in quotes :) |
15:36 | <PeterT> | oh |
15:36 | <PeterT> | right |
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15:36 | <PeterT> | how does it know when the bytes begin/end |
15:36 | <andythenorth> | it counts |
15:36 | <andythenorth> | I guess |
15:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | everything that is not in quotes is a byte |
15:37 | <PeterT> | only four letters? |
15:37 | <planetmaker> | yes |
15:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | exactly 4 |
15:37 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: lies! |
15:37 | <PeterT> | what if you want something longer? |
15:37 | <planetmaker> | 4 bytes. And a byte can be a letter |
15:37 | <@Rubidium> | \d4 |
15:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: pssst! :p |
15:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | PeterT: an ID can't be longer |
15:38 | * | planetmaker wantd something like \grfid(exp(i\pi)) |
15:38 | <PeterT> | I must be misunderstanding something |
15:38 | <PeterT> | What is the ID? |
15:38 | <planetmaker> | the grfID |
15:38 | <PeterT> | Right |
15:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | PeterT: the ID is a number so the game can identify two grfs as the same |
15:38 | <PeterT> | oh, yeah |
15:39 | <PeterT> | I've seen ID's that are longer than four |
15:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what kind of longer, and what do you think an ID is? |
15:41 | <PeterT> | The "GRF ID" |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: 'ID' can mean several things when coding nfo |
15:42 | <PeterT> | 59450200 is the GRF ID I'm looking at now |
15:42 | <PeterT> | which is longer than 4 |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | would always say grf ID |
15:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, that's 4 bytes |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: that is 4 bytes |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | a byte is two character |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | s |
15:42 | <PeterT> | ooooooooooooooh |
15:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a byte is two hex-digits |
15:42 | * | PeterT facepalms |
15:42 | <andythenorth> | that is actually a dword |
15:43 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: face palm happens a lot when working with bytecode |
15:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | m( <-- the facepalm smilie |
15:43 | <PeterT> | m( |
15:43 | * | andythenorth ponders updating HEQS |
15:44 | <andythenorth> | or FISH |
15:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: one release wasn't enough? :) |
15:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: make cargo trams in HEQS! |
15:44 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: no |
15:44 | <andythenorth> | I've decided cargo trams have too many issues |
15:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: YES! |
15:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what kind of issues? |
15:45 | <andythenorth> | assembling trains is sucky with RVs |
15:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: do you have graphics? |
15:45 | <andythenorth> | nope |
15:45 | <andythenorth> | nothing |
15:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | can you make some for me? :) |
15:46 | <planetmaker> | lol :-) |
15:46 | * | andythenorth ponders an industrial narrow gauge set where the player can choose to have the same sprites as trains or trams |
15:46 | <andythenorth> | but not interchangeable :| |
15:47 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: got an RL sources? |
15:47 | <andythenorth> | any /s |
15:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i might try to get some useful coding done, but i need the graphics |
15:47 | * | andythenorth might do cargo trams if we can patch for ships with two separate cargo compartments |
15:47 | <andythenorth> | as a trade-trade |
15:47 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: did you see my PM? |
15:47 | <planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause: you might start as FISH started: nice little boxes ;-) |
15:47 | <PeterT> | about FISH AI? |
15:48 | <andythenorth> | PeterT: nope sorry |
15:48 | <PeterT> | andythenorth: IRC PM |
15:48 | <andythenorth> | ah |
15:48 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: smatz * r19505 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Codechange: silence a gcc<4.2 warning |
15:49 | * | andythenorth ponders adding some ideas to openttd wiki. |
15:49 | <andythenorth> | forum suggestions is a bit of a graveyard |
15:49 | <andythenorth> | not ideas so much as specs for possible features. ideas are easy |
15:50 | <andythenorth> | design is not :| |
15:54 | <planetmaker> | he, indeed... |
15:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm thinking about one engine 4/8 and 4,9 or 15 wagons of 3/8: 4+4*3=16 (1 Tile), 4+9*3=31 (2 Tiles), 4+15*3=49 (3 Tiles) |
15:57 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: would you be using refits on invisible wagons, or vehicles in the buy menu for each length |
15:57 | <andythenorth> | ? |
15:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | where the number of wagons is set by refit |
15:58 | <andythenorth> | what happens when one vehicle runs up against the invisible rear of another? |
15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can fit 16 vehicles of length 1/8 on one tile |
15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and show only every 4th wagon |
15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or so |
15:58 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: post a link if you find any RL pictures of what you're thinking |
16:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://home.arcor.de/vt18.16.10/900fz/900e.html#el3 <- that enough? |
16:03 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: funny, I was looking at this yesterday (not ng, but similar locomotives) http://www.geoffspages.co.uk/raildiary/westoe/index.htm |
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16:14 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: so how do these trams fit into gameplay? |
16:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | short distance low-space transportation? |
16:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (e.g. feeder services) |
16:15 | <andythenorth> | refittable to any cargo? |
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16:21 | * | frosch123 hates commit messages |
16:22 | <PeterT> | frosch123: what is wrong with them? |
16:22 | * | frosch123 hates writing commit messages |
16:23 | <PeterT> | if you really commit to i.....see what I did there? |
16:24 | * | Terkhen agrees wholeheartedly |
16:25 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: http://www.carendt.us/articles/Industry/index.html |
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16:25 | * | andythenorth hadn't thought of tramways for general farm produce. sugar cane...yes. other stuff...no |
16:25 | <TrueBrain> | Terkhen / frosch123: you should start a myspace page about it |
16:26 | <frosch123> | i already have enough space here |
16:27 | <Terkhen> | I prefer traditional grumbling too |
16:28 | * | andythenorth ponders roadtypes |
16:29 | <Yexo> | planetmaker: yes, the ttdpatch wiki has no page for action0 airports yet |
16:29 | <Yexo> | but here are no defined properties either |
16:30 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: frosch * r19506 /trunk/src/ (road_func.h station_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Tunnels, bridges and roadstops are build with only one roadtype. |
16:30 | <planetmaker> | oh right. I saw that one could now at least disable airports... so :-) |
16:31 | <Yexo> | hmm, right, there are a few properties now indeed :) |
16:35 | <Terkhen> | andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/firs_gravel.png |
16:36 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: which is the problem there? The 'cheat', or the industry placement? |
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16:39 | <Terkhen> | neither, it's funny that a line fits there :P |
16:39 | <andythenorth> | did you build that or the game? |
16:39 | <andythenorth> | (the industries) |
16:39 | <Terkhen> | generated randomly |
16:39 | <andythenorth> | meh |
16:40 | <Terkhen> | not expected? |
16:40 | * | andythenorth recommends Yexo's tile clearance code for industry placement |
16:40 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: expected |
16:40 | <andythenorth> | common problem |
16:40 | <andythenorth> | I can prevent it, but doing it right is a lot of work. Patching trunk for it is about 7 lines IIRC |
16:41 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/industrial_trams |
16:43 | <andythenorth> | Yexo's industry patch: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/nearby_industries.diff |
16:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: that sounds about right :) |
16:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd go for electric |
16:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i don't know if road vehicles can emit steam puffs |
16:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i suppose not |
16:44 | <andythenorth> | not right now. but they should :o |
16:44 | <andythenorth> | an old topic, discussed many times |
16:44 | <andythenorth> | probably on the german forum too 9.9 |
16:45 | <andythenorth> | he |
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16:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i very vaguely remember such discussions, but i think it was in the english forum |
16:46 | <andythenorth> | smoke for RVs and ships comes up every now and then |
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17:45 | <Nite_Owl> | Hello all |
17:45 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: I found more tramway style locos |
17:45 | <andythenorth> | http://www.schoema-locos.de/narrow_01.htm |
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18:02 | <andythenorth> | http://www.ingr.co.uk/images/stein004.JPG |
18:03 | <andythenorth> | http://www.ingr.co.uk/images/stein005.JPG |
18:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | see, there is plenty of inspiration around :) |
18:08 | <andythenorth> | 16 km / h seems to be a fair top speed :| |
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18:09 | <andythenorth> | oh, this one does up to 30km/h with 600t load (on the level) http://www.taiwanrailways.com/For%20Sale%20Diemas.htm |
18:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | depends on the year, i presume |
18:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the EL 3 that i posted at first makes 50km/h |
18:10 | <andythenorth> | interesting |
18:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | built in 1951 |
18:10 | <andythenorth> | but performance of electric locos seems to be pretty good even back to 1900s (from what little I know) |
18:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it was used for hauling big loads of coal from the open mines to the distribution facilities and power stations in the region |
18:11 | <andythenorth> | so that would be useful |
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18:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so maybe in 1910 a 16km/h version, in 1930 a 30km/h version and in 1950 a 50 km/h version |
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18:14 | <Terkhen> | good night |
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18:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | why the hell do i have a "train_cmd.c.rej"? |
18:16 | <PeterT> | Old file from repo? |
18:16 | <PeterT> | after patching |
18:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | --- train_cmd.c (revision 7490) |
18:17 | <PeterT> | Hmm |
18:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but the date is dec 2009 |
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18:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm... i think there's a bug in the acceleration calculation... max_te should be reduced when on slopes... |
18:25 | <Yexo> | Eddi|zuHause: maybe you tried to apply a very old patch last december? |
18:25 | <OwenS> | train_cmd.c? Thats *ancient* :P |
18:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Yexo: yeah, most likely |
18:26 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: smatz * r19507 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: remove semicolon after DECLARE_POSTFIX_INCREMENT and DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET |
18:26 | <OwenS> | And wouldn't you get lots of .rej's? :P |
18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | max_te is the resulting force of (adhesive weight) * (friction factor) |
18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but on slopes it should be (adhesive weight)*(friction factor)*(cos(angle)) |
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18:28 | <OwenS> | my gitk is starting to look interesting :P |
18:30 | * | OwenS notes CmdLandscpeClear down as a place that probably needs to do a check for the presence of progsigs on a tile |
18:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | real 111m3.542s |
18:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | user 69m35.797s |
18:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | one compile of wine with ccache |
18:36 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: smatz * r19508 /trunk/src/network/core/ (tcp_content.cpp udp.cpp): -Codechange: remove semicolon after DEFINE_UNAVAILABLE_CONTENT_RECEIVE_COMMAND and DEFINE_UNAVAILABLE_UDP_RECEIVE_COMMAND |
18:36 | <OwenS> | Eddi|zuHause: Considering orudge's job... I feel sorry for him :p |
18:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ? |
18:37 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: smatz * r19509 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove superfluous semicolons after function definitions |
18:39 | <OwenS> | Eddi|zuHause: He works at CodeWeavers on CrossOver office... aka, a version of Wine |
18:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | OwenS: i presume they have faster computers |
18:40 | <OwenS> | Eddi|zuHause: Probably. But WINE is still a horrid build |
18:44 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: http://wongm.railgeelong.com/sec-railway |
18:44 | <andythenorth> | tramway wagon capacity seems to be 1ton-3ton |
18:44 | <andythenorth> | oops 30ton |
18:45 | <andythenorth> | 16*30 would give 480t train weight, not too bad :) |
18:45 | <andythenorth> | or at the smaller end....16t :o |
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18:45 | <andythenorth> | I'd propose 'light' and 'heavy' tramway locos, with costs to match |
18:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 30t per wagon seems a little high, if you compare it to DBSet wagons, which are (visually) way longer |
18:47 | <OwenS> | Eddi|zuHause: Since when was an OpenTTD road to scale with an OpenTTD rail? |
18:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | OwenS: since i want it to be... |
18:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | OwenS: the whole dilemma starts with the GermanRV set which has cargo trams, but their capacity is way too low for their size, and they aren't available after 1950 |
18:48 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: smatz * r19510 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (50 files): -Codechange: remove superfluous semicolons from *.sq files |
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18:55 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: 30t is too high |
18:55 | <andythenorth> | but 15 might be acceptable |
18:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | maybe even lower, like 10 or 8 |
18:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or incease over time. the 1910 model 5t, the 1930 model 8t and the 1950 model 12t per wagon |
19:00 | <andythenorth> | I would have two models of locomotive, with matching wagons. Low cap and high. All stats evolving over time. Pretty much the same as the no. 6 and no.8 bulldozers in HEQS. |
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21:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: just for reference: "tram station graphics ought to be improved to fit" <- is a difficult task to do right as long as road stations have no newgrf support. you can only change the generic graphics for all truck/cargo-tram stations |
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--- | Log | closed Wed Mar 24 00:00:25 2010 |