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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-03-28

---Logopened Sun Mar 28 00:00:08 2010
00:01-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
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04:15<planetmaker>good moaning
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04:30<Zuu>good morning
04:35<Alberth>moin
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05:19<fjb>Moin
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05:39<DanMacK>Hello all
05:40<fjb>Moin DanMacK
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05:50<planetmaker>Hello DanMacK
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06:26<fonsinchen>If you'd like to play a nice cargodist multiplayer game with the latest version built by the compile farm yesterday (available at http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist/g5b3732ce/) you can do so on mz.openttdcoop.org:3999 .
06:28<andythenorth>hi hi
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06:33<andythenorth>is 'truck convoy' an acceptable type of RV?
06:35<Zuu>fonsinchen: Thes server reports version "g5b3732ce-carg" but the win32 binary reports "g5b3732ce-cargodist" and thus I can't join the server.
06:35<planetmaker>hello andythenorth
06:36<frosch123>is that a direct upgrade from sheep-flock?
06:36<planetmaker>I'd call it "road train". That's an established word in Australia IIRC
06:36<planetmaker>frosch123: intermediate via sheep train
06:36<planetmaker>*sheep convoy
06:36-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e065bd1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:37<Zuu>Not sure if it is your fault or if the version scripts cut the version at different length depending on platform.
06:38<planetmaker>o-O
06:38<ccfreak2k>planetmaker, it actually looks like two words to me.
06:38<KenjiE20>"2. Unforeseen Consequences"
06:38<planetmaker>ccfreak2k: http://www.google.de/search?q=road+train
06:39<planetmaker>google.com probably will work, too ;-)
06:39<andythenorth>road train is one truck, many trailers
06:39<planetmaker>yes.
06:39<fonsinchen>argh
06:39<andythenorth>I am thinking of multiple trucks
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06:39<planetmaker>andythenorth: but multiple trucks should be multiple vehicles
06:39<andythenorth>meh
06:39<fonsinchen>Zuu, where does it report that?
06:39<planetmaker>nothing the newgrf decides for the player
06:40<fonsinchen>the server, I mean
06:40<Zuu>The client version is printed at the top of the title window.
06:40<Zuu>The server version you can see in the multiplayer window at the right.
06:40<andythenorth>it seems IRL farm produce used to move in 3t-5t trucks until a few decades ago. For a farm producing even 90t / month, that's a boring amount of trucks
06:40<fonsinchen>For me the server also reports the shortened string, but I can connect
06:41<Zuu>It says VERSION MISMATCH here
06:41<Zuu>fonsinchen: What does your client say?
06:41<Zuu>carg or cargodist?
06:41<fonsinchen>Also the long string
06:41*andythenorth ponders
06:41<Zuu>hmm, strange
06:42<fonsinchen>where did you click to make it say "version mismatch"?
06:42<andythenorth>industry type 'farms'.....several together, serve them by train
06:42<andythenorth>or....lower farm production
06:42<Zuu>I didn't click anywhere it says that on the left under the server stats.
06:42<Zuu>And the join game button is greyed out.
06:42<Zuu>The server has a red status symbol as well.
06:43<fonsinchen>wtf?!?
06:43<planetmaker>andythenorth: then I don't think it's something a newgrf should fix
06:43<planetmaker>90t = 3...4 trucks a month
06:43<fonsinchen>Zuu, please quote the exact version string you see in the main menu.
06:44<planetmaker>which is not that bad considering that a normal diary farm is served by a truck every day or every 2nd day
06:44-!-fjb [~frank@p5485E9A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:44<Zuu>Oh, now I see there is an M also: "g5b3732ceM-cargodist"
06:45<Zuu>I guess that is the problem.
06:45<andythenorth>planetmaker: with 3t trucks (or horse wagons) it's more like 30 trucks...
06:45<planetmaker>Zuu: did you by chance grab the wrong one? I set the wrong dl thing
06:45<planetmaker>initially
06:45<KenjiE20>pm; I got the same thing
06:45<planetmaker>andythenorth: yeah... but then change that to reasonable amounts for game play balance purposes.
06:46<planetmaker>Realism... :-)
06:46<Zuu>I downloaded http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist/g5b3732ce/openttd-cargodist-g5b3732ce-windows-win32.zip
06:46<fonsinchen>the problem is that the compile farm has built a "modified" version.
06:46<fonsinchen>Rubidium, can that be fixed?
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06:47<Zuu>IIRC it is a one-liner change in the vbs-script.
06:47<fonsinchen>do we have the same problem with other versions?
06:47<fonsinchen>for other OS?
06:47*planetmaker compiles
06:48<Zuu>fonsinchen: Did you make any changes to the version scripts?
06:48<fonsinchen>no
06:48<KenjiE20>awesome; windows-win32-error.log is just full of grep.exe errors
06:48<Zuu>Otherwise you might be at the situation that only the server is "modified", but I suggest that you test at least the linux binary and see.
06:49<Zuu>fonsinchen: You're at linux right?
06:49<fonsinchen>the server doesn't have the "M" in the version string. The win32 binary does
06:49<fonsinchen>yes, but I have compiled mysel
06:49<Zuu>Perhaps you could try the farm-binary and see what version it reports.
06:50*planetmaker downloaded the source and will see what it reports on OSX then when compiled
06:51<fonsinchen>also has the "M"
06:51<KenjiE20>checking revision... git detection <-- I wonder
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06:52<fonsinchen>maybe we just change the server to also report "M"
06:52<fonsinchen>the binaries are probably all "modified"
06:52<planetmaker>we should compile the server from the source bundle
06:52<fonsinchen>why?
06:52<planetmaker>then it's for sure the same thing
06:52<fonsinchen>I wouldn't be too sure about that
06:53<planetmaker>whereever the 'M' comes from. Or do you know what the 'M' indicates as modified?
06:53<fonsinchen>we don't know where the M got inserted
06:53<KenjiE20>when pm says source bundle, he means the linux-generic .tar.gz
06:53<KenjiE20>I presume
06:53<planetmaker>well. That'd be even easier, I guess. I meant building from -source.tar.bz2
06:53<fonsinchen>I can easily make the server display the M by just changing on line in the source
06:54<fonsinchen>I'll just do that now
06:54<planetmaker>I consider that dangerous
06:54<Zuu>M basically says that it is not plain trunk IIRC.
06:54<planetmaker>^
06:55<fonsinchen>so, what shall we do? recompile everything?
06:55<planetmaker>just use the version which is offered for download also on the server
06:55<fonsinchen>basically the compile farm wrongly reports it has modified the source
06:55<planetmaker>easiest proposal IMHO
06:55<Zuu>The easiest would be to re-compile the server for now.
06:55<fonsinchen>I cannot imagine that it did and if it did I wouldn't trust it to work, either.
06:56<planetmaker>fonsinchen: I guess the repo from where it pulled is your working repo?
06:56<planetmaker>Then it might just have those mods which you had (not yet commited).
06:57<fonsinchen>The compile farm pulls from my public repository
06:57<fonsinchen>by definition the code there is not modified wrt my published version of cargodist
06:58<planetmaker>lovely. The source built reports as norev000
06:58<KenjiE20>11:51:38 KenjiE20 | checking revision... git detection <-- I wonder
06:59<Zuu>I would guess that unless the version scripts support git it would be modified against SVN trunk
06:59<Zuu>Eg, the same as I think KenjiE20 is trying to highlight.
06:59<KenjiE20>quite
06:59<fonsinchen>but the "M" is appended to my git version
06:59<Zuu>Pretty much any patch build would get an M.
07:00<fonsinchen>BTW, we had the same problem in June last year
07:00-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@80.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
07:00<fonsinchen>I solved it in the same way and it worked
07:00<Terkhen>hello
07:00<Zuu>I don't see the problem. You have modified source code wrt. svn trunk and why do you not want the M then?
07:00<fonsinchen>if the base version is my cargodist version (which it detects) then there is no patch on top of that
07:01<fonsinchen>but, whatever, if the "modified" is just for "modified from trunk" then we can as well just add the "M" (which I have done)
07:01<KenjiE20>I would guess that it seeing the .git stuff as trunk 'mods'
07:02<KenjiE20>or something
07:02<Zuu>It was long time ago since I took a look at the version scripts. To get the "truth" you probably have to look into them and see what they actually does.
07:02<fonsinchen>it doesn't matter anyway. The compile farm has hopefully built the git revision it tells us.
07:02<fonsinchen>If it hasn't we have a serious problem.
07:03<fonsinchen>But if it has it doesn't matter if there's an additional "M" in the version string, so we can as well just add it to our server.
07:03<Zuu>fonsinchen: If you are in doubt you could diff the source tar ball against a check out from your respority.
07:04<fonsinchen>I am actually not as I know the compile farm's git revision detection is broken
07:04<fonsinchen>it did the exact same thing in June last year
07:07<planetmaker>but didn't it work last summerß
07:07<planetmaker>s/ß/?/
07:08<fonsinchen>yes
07:13<fonsinchen>It should work now. I have changed the server to also report itself as "modified"
07:15<Zuu>Yep, now I can join.
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07:35<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: I have no idea where the M comes from and don't really have the time to hunt for that right now either
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07:50<fonsinchen>It's OK, it works now
07:51<fonsinchen>I'll keep a note ...
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07:55<andythenorth>having farms that produce seasonally....just too evil?
07:55<Forked>very realistic though *hides from Belugas*
07:55<andythenorth>also screws with your nice tidy network for three months of the year :)
07:56<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause is the alpine fan here :)
07:56<@Rubidium>andythenorth: as long as you introduce greenhouses that deliver all year round :)
07:56<andythenorth>yep
07:56<andythenorth>I am thinking grain primarily
07:56<frosch123>when i played it i serviced farms so the train drives only once a year, i.e. loads during summer and delivers in winter :p
07:57<andythenorth>the only reason I've not done it so far is that it can leave a train making no money....
07:57<andythenorth>seasonal conditional orders? :o
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08:00<andythenorth>or Pikka-style variable running costs (low costs when not moving)
08:01<andythenorth>or high payment rate for the cargo
08:01<andythenorth>or flat payment decay curve so that trucks can deliver to the elevator for pickup by trains year-round
08:04<ccfreak2k>andythenorth, or "available cargo" orders.
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08:25<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19521 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Use a IndustryType array to sort industries by name instead of a LegendAndColour array.
08:29<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19522 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Feature: Sort industries alphabetically at the fund new industry window.
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09:07<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> Eddi|zuHause is the alpine fan here :) <-- honestly, i never serviced such a farm...
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09:28<Eddi|zuHause>i always end up having a passenger network, no matter how hard i try :)
09:30<@Rubidium>hmm, still 1500 0.6.3 downloads a week. Is the old AI that special?
09:32<fjb>It is easy to beat.
09:34<PeterT>whereas the new AIs are hard-to-beat?
09:35-!-Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
09:36<fjb>Don't know, but the old ai is still easier to beat. And some people complained about it being too hard.
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>some people manage to get outperformed by the old ai :p
09:39<planetmaker>Folks, re-joice :-) You can now download a new release of OpenGFX, version 0.2.2
09:39<PeterT>what's changed?
09:40<fjb>Hay bales?
09:40<planetmaker>houses and maglev and monorail vehicles mostly
09:40<planetmaker>but some other things and fixes, too.
09:40<PeterT>Ok, downloaded
09:40<planetmaker>fjb: unfortunately not
09:41<planetmaker>But I have that on my list of things I'd definitely like to see changed for 0.3
09:41<planetmaker>But it needs an artist...
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11:09<George>Hi.
11:09<George>need help with strange behaviour of OTTS according to wagons (R19519)
11:10<George>The following wagon does not appear in the list
11:10<George>407 * 71 00 00 1C 01 5C
11:10<George> 00 \w1920/1/1
11:10<George> 02 0F
11:10<George> 03 \b17
11:10<George> 04 \b255
11:10<George> 05 00
11:10<George> 06 0F
11:10<George> 07 \b10
11:10<George> 08 00
11:10<George> 09 \w130
11:10<George> 0B \w0
11:10<George> 0D 00
11:10<George> 0E 00 00 00 00
11:10<George> 12 FD
11:10<George> 13 00
11:10<PeterT>paste.openttd.org
11:10<George> 14 \b32
11:10<George> 15 FF
11:10<George> 16 10
11:10<George> 17 10
11:10<George> 18 00
11:10<George> 19 00
11:10<George> 1A 00
11:10<George> 1B \w0
11:10<George> 1C 00
11:10<George> 1E 12
11:10<PeterT>Seriouisly.
11:10<George> 1F 00
11:10<George> 20 00
11:10<George> 27 01
11:10<George> 2A \d0/1/1
11:10<George>But as soon as I define power, it appears (but as train)
11:11<frosch123>something with railtypes?
11:11<George>http://paste.openttd.org/225431
11:11<George>I had not defined any
11:12<George>Do I need to provide a GRF?
11:12<frosch123>is any of its refit cargos available?
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11:13<George>15 FF
11:14<planetmaker>seriously... use a paste service...
11:14<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19523 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix: Prevent drawing industries disabled at the smallmap as land tiles when they are built on water.
11:14<George>do you mean a need to define prop 28 anyway?
11:15<frosch123>George: you neither set 1d nor 28
11:15<Jolteon>lol how did he not get flood kicked.
11:15<PeterT>I don't think #openttd has a FloodBot
11:15<PeterT>it should
11:15<frosch123>maybe if a wagon is not able to carry anything it is not available. at least that is done for road vehicles
11:15<PeterT>The only flood protection this channel has is +l 175
11:16<Jolteon>Network services should have a flookick
11:16<Jolteon>flood
11:16<George>frosch123: Thank you, it helped
11:16<@Rubidium>Jolteon: unless the client sends out lines at a speed that does not flood trigger
11:16<PeterT>/msg ChanServ HELP SET FloodServ
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11:29<SmatZ__>hello
11:29<SmatZ__>my HDD died :(
11:29<PeterT>Hi SmatZ__
11:29<PeterT>Where are you using IRC from?
11:29<TrueBrain>awwwhhh, that sucks SmatZ__!
11:29<SmatZ__>the sounds it does are really scary
11:29<SmatZ__>from different compter :)
11:29<TrueBrain>you have backups I hope?
11:29<Terkhen>hi SmatZ__ :(
11:29<SmatZ__>luckily I have backup from last week
11:30<PeterT>that's good
11:30<PeterT>How did it die?
11:30<SmatZ__>suddenly
11:30<TrueBrain>SmatZ__: if needed, you can mos tlikely get it to work for very short bursts :)
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11:31<SmatZ__>I turned on PC, and while KDE was starting, it started doing those sounds
11:31<SmatZ__>I can read from sda1,2,3,5, but sda6,7,8 are not available
11:31<SmatZ__>strange
11:32<SmatZ__>TrueBrain: I hope so :)
11:35<TrueBrain>Rubidium: -- End of NFO Renum 'settings <- misses closing ' :p
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11:40<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: why has WT3 gone haywire because of cases again? (since r19519)
11:40<TrueBrain>did it ever not? :)
11:41<TrueBrain>but define 'haywire'?
11:42<@Rubidium>2 pending strings that aren't pending
11:42<TrueBrain>ah, if you define that as haywire .. sure
11:42<@Rubidium>i.e. 2 pending strings that aren't committed
11:42<TrueBrain>I just call it a reoccouring bug
11:42<TrueBrain>they are commited
11:43<TrueBrain>more happy this way?
11:44<PeterT>SmatZ__: Good luck.
11:44<@Rubidium>will it happen again?
11:44<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19524 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttd.nfo openttdgui.nfo shore.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix [FS#TB]: please our loyal "'" checker.
11:44<TrueBrain>and again and again and again
11:44<TrueBrain>like it always did
11:45<TrueBrain>it is a very rare bug, which is easy to repeat, but a bitch to fix; it only happens 1 out of the .. 500? strings WT3 commits, so ... not worth any real time ;)
11:46<@Rubidium>it seems to be related to cases
11:47<TrueBrain>yup
11:47<TrueBrain>and only to cases
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12:05<Ammler>oh, sac claims credits for swedish houses :-)
12:06<planetmaker>lol
12:06<planetmaker>I thought Irwe drew them?
12:08<planetmaker>oh oh. I see another muddy fight surfacing
12:10<Ammler>I would guess, irwe draw it like sac, but he did it self
12:10<Ammler>as irwe is capable to
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12:14<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=859581#p859581 <-- I guess he encouraged here ;-)
12:16<andythenorth>compare: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=535922#p535922
12:16<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=866989#p866989
12:17<andythenorth>not same, but similar
12:21<planetmaker>same RL building, I guess
12:22<planetmaker>looking at that: he drew it all himself.
12:23<andythenorth>he's clearly taken inspiration for the windows, but that's no problem
12:24<planetmaker>might be. But there's only so much you can do IMHO in order to get windows properly drawn.
12:24<planetmaker>He might even not have seen that. Dunno :-)
12:24<andythenorth>I do believe that one or two of us may have been 'inspired' by the work of Simon Foster anyway :o
12:24<planetmaker>:-) Very true
12:25<andythenorth>someone should pm Irwe and tell him not to worry...
12:26<planetmaker>you're the art-man here :-)
12:29-!-Luffy-X- [~Luffy@189.191.124.50] has joined #openttd
12:29<Luffy-X->hi
12:29<planetmaker>ho
12:32<Luffy-X->i you speacks spanish?
12:33<fjb>Hm, will INFRA or DBsetXL 0.9 be released first?
12:33<planetmaker>I even offered her to code her houses. But she declined.
12:34<frosch123>fjb: it's called simuscape now
12:34<planetmaker>I mean... I have a house grf written. It just needs sprites.
12:35<fjb>frosch123: I care for the name as much as for the set. :-)
12:35-!-DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:35<fjb>Irwe does a great job. And you can see that he paints his houses on his own. It is well documented in the thread.
12:36<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=859581#p859581 <--- I agrre, fjb, but... :-)
12:37<fjb>And SAC got things from other sets for her use. That will give her problems if she tries to release her set one day.
12:41<fjb>The few things which are taken from INFRA can be redrawn. And some things look like the same even if drawn independently at that scale.
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12:44<Jolteon>INFRA is hot.
12:44<Jolteon>The model of IKEA she did is <3
12:45<planetmaker>and unavailable till further notice ;-)
12:46<fjb>SAC and MB should marry.
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13:10<Ammler>well, as long as she claims credits only, it doesn't hurt, it is even a valid thing.
13:11<Ammler>she could also be a bit rude and ask for removing her work...
13:12<fjb>Irwe already gave credits in the readme.
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13:27<Eoin>swedish houses is sexy
13:28<PeterT>Extremely
13:29<planetmaker>possibly the nicest looking house newgrf around :-)
13:31<ccfreak2k>They do look nice.
13:31<ccfreak2k>The lightpoles/flagpoles/whateverpoles are visually jarring, but other than that they're great.
13:31<Eoin>i do wish everyone would agree to release graphics under one "license"
13:31<Eoin>like pick-n-mix :D
13:33<planetmaker>:-)
13:34<Eoin>hell
13:34*planetmaker considers to "steal" Swedish houses and put them into OpenGFX as arctic versions
13:34<Eoin>i think the only grfs i ever drew
13:34<Eoin>one is in that british rail set
13:34<Eoin>one was in the world plane set
13:34<Eoin>dunno if it still is :P
13:39<Terkhen>which order would be best for sorting cargos? I'm thinking about showing cargos with a passenger class first, then cargos with a mail class and all other cargos afterwards (each group sorted by name)
13:39<Terkhen>or maybe just sorting by cargo name is simpler?
13:39<Terkhen>http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/sorted_cargos_standard.png <-- right now it looks this way
13:41<frosch123>or sort them by the payment value on the left
13:43<frosch123>but, i never looks at those graphs :)
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13:45<Terkhen>that would be another feature, right now I want to make simpler to select cargo types
13:45<Terkhen>the filter by cargo dropdown at the build vehicle window would use the same sorted list
13:45<andythenorth>Terkhen: your png makes sense
13:46<andythenorth>PAX, mail, others a-Z
13:46<frosch123>and tourists? after pax or with the rest?
13:48<Terkhen>before or after passengers, depending on the exact strings
13:49<frosch123>ok, that would put the cargos i hardly ever transport at the top :)
13:50-!-fjb [~frank@p5485F508.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:51<Terkhen>http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/sorted_cargos_firs.png
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13:52<planetmaker>that looks nice :-)
13:52<frosch123>yup :)
13:52<planetmaker>except: the y-axis scaling is poor
13:55<Terkhen>as a side effect it removes special cargos from the graph too (regearing)
13:58<andythenorth>how does it do that?
13:59<Terkhen>all cargos with a special cargo class are ignored
13:59<andythenorth>nice
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14:08<Alberth>fonsinchen: my debug output says: dbg: [misc] frozen not in linkstat list. don't know how long ago
14:09<PeterT>fonsinchen: huge desync
14:09<Alberth>planetmaker: y axis scaling was bad already :p
14:10<planetmaker>Alberth, I know :-) I just wanted to bring it up as a small nudge ;-)
14:10<frosch123>esp. because the y axis scaling is only caused by "It's a bit arbitrary, but it makes the cargo payment graph look a little * nicer (...)"
14:10<Alberth>planetmaker: you're too late: FS#3726 :)
14:11<planetmaker>:-)
14:11<planetmaker>frosch123, oh, that sounds... scary :-)
14:12<frosch123>well, the problem seems to be that the graph cannot scale more than 1 unit per pixel, so if the highest payment is 150 and the window is 500 pixels high you get 350 unused pixels
14:14<frosch123>btw. the graph gui is not scalable, so it is only your fault by adding so many cargos :p
14:14<@Rubidium>the screenshot of FS#3726 is kinda fishy
14:15<frosch123>what's wrong with it?
14:15<@Rubidium>why is the amount of money 100,000 dollars on that date? It looks like he just started the game to make the screenshot, but then he should have 200,000 dollars (or 100,000 pounds)
14:15<planetmaker>Rubidium, not with a custom $
14:16<planetmaker>My "DM" are also the same number as pounds
14:18<frosch123>then it's a "PM"
14:18<planetmaker>:-D
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14:20<Alberth>we had some very nice graph some time back, with a black background iirc
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14:33<Terkhen>I remember an ancient patch like that too, the graphs looked nice
14:33<OwenS>Black background would be an awesome improvement
14:34<Terkhen>coal would become invisible then
14:34<OwenS>Recolour it
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14:39<Terkhen>to what colour? it must be a colour that will never be used for any other cargos, to avoid confusions
14:40<frosch123>the old grey :p
14:40<andythenorth>colours are defined by newgrf anyway
14:40<Terkhen>true :P
14:41<andythenorth>the rest of the GUI is grey, leave it grey ;)
14:48<SmatZ__>the HDD failed today was bought 11.07.2005
14:48<SmatZ__>and it has 5 years warranty :)
14:48<OwenS>SmatZ__: 5 years? Jeeze
14:48<OwenS>My failed HD only had a 3 year warranty
14:49<SmatZ__>:(
14:49<OwenS>And was 3y3m
14:49<SmatZ__>:-(
14:49<OwenS>Meh
14:49<OwenS>3 years is a good life for a HDD used as intensively as it was
14:52<+glx>SmatZ__: you're lucky it seems :)
14:52<SmatZ__>hehe :)
15:04<fonsinchen>what, desync?
15:04<fonsinchen>where?
15:05<fonsinchen>petert, have you been disconnected by desync?
15:05<planetmaker>fonsinchen, at 20:07:
15:05<planetmaker><Tycoon> *** alberth has left the game (connection lost)
15:05<planetmaker><Tycoon> *** BlueEagle_NL has left the game (desync error)
15:05<planetmaker><Tycoon> *** Fab has left the game (desync error)
15:05<planetmaker><Tycoon> *** Zuuu has left the game (desync error)
15:05<planetmaker><Tycoon> *** Kogut has left the game (desync error)
15:06<planetmaker>you were even online...
15:06<fonsinchen>I didn't notice it ...
15:06<fonsinchen>does the server autosave?
15:06<planetmaker>scroll up in the channel. Some were not, including you
15:06<planetmaker>IIRC yes
15:10<@Rubidium>okay, now for something totally insane... do the ones that desync have a relatively slow computer and the ones that don't a relatively fast computer?
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15:11<fonsinchen>I just was desynced myself. My computer is definitely not slow
15:13<@Rubidium>it's just a hypothesis that the thread is reading something it shouldn't read (anymore), or writing something it shouldn't write (yet)
15:13<fonsinchen>The thread and the main games operate on completely separate data sets
15:13<fonsinchen>that was never a problem
15:14<fonsinchen>Last time the problem was that I had a > operation on pointers somewhere
15:14<planetmaker>right now everyone desynced anyway
15:16<Alberth>was the desync caused by me?
15:17<fonsinchen>How should you cause it?
15:17<@Rubidium>Alberth: partly
15:17<planetmaker>Alberth, how could you?
15:17<planetmaker>How dare you?! ;-)
15:17<Alberth>I just closed the app
15:17<Alberth>planetmaker: was it not a test-game? :p
15:18<planetmaker>dev server implies test game. Kind of :-)
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15:18<@Rubidium>Alberth: partly because you need at least an unpaused server for desyncs :)
15:19<Alberth>:)
15:19<planetmaker>Alberth, so it was really you playing there, right? :-)
15:19*Alberth denies everything
15:19<planetmaker>I wondered as I seem to remember that alberth there saying he was a newbie ;-)
15:19<fonsinchen>well, I'm off
15:19<Alberth>I am, never played a MP game
15:19<planetmaker>:-)
15:19<planetmaker>good night, fonsinchen
15:20<Alberth>and your rules URL was vanished before I could memorize it
15:20<planetmaker>it's a dev server. The typcial coop rules don't apply
15:21<planetmaker>just the common sense multiplayer rules
15:21<planetmaker>"don't be evil" basically ;-)
15:21<Alberth>I guessed as much :)
15:21<Alberth>next time I want to join a company with another player, and build some stuff together
15:22<planetmaker>fonsinchen, did you download the savegames which you need? If the server continues to run, they might get overwritten after some time
15:22<planetmaker>Alberth, that's in principle also possible on the dev server. At least that's what I do there, too :-)
15:22<planetmaker>Building alone is boring ;-)
15:23<Alberth>in that sense it was a bad game :(
15:25<planetmaker>Well... :-) There are more coop-ish games around, even those which are not hardcore style #coop games
15:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I hope that you ran some logging, like when people connected and the commands that were executed so you can reproduce it :)
15:26<planetmaker>My personal preference on our public server is a game like: one common ICE network and then small groups of people (or also single people) taking charge of a region
15:26<planetmaker>Rubidium, it's an unpatched server... :-(
15:27<PeterT>fonsinchen: No, I was not
15:27<PeterT>I wasn't even in-game
15:27<OwenS>planetmaker: That is also my favorite game mode
15:27<PeterT>I was in the IRC chanenl though
15:27<OwenS>planetmaker: Actually, that would be really interesting with cargodist
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15:28<Alberth>planetmaker: let's try something like that when we encounter each other in a MP game
15:28<planetmaker>sure. I'd love to! :-)
15:28<planetmaker>About Easter? :-)
15:28<OwenS>Alberth: Or join the #openttdcoop main server some time? :P
15:28<planetmaker>^ Sometimes we run that there. Then I play :-)
15:28<@Rubidium>planetmaker: -d desync<something> IIRC, readme tells
15:28<OwenS>(BTW, when you run ProgSigs on there, turning misc and sl debugging up to 10 will be essential)
15:29<OwenS>-ddesync10
15:29<OwenS>(So, for progsigs, -dmisc10 -ddesync10 -dsl10)
15:29<planetmaker>Rubidium, I'm actually quite sure it wasn't activated... but I didn't personally start the server
15:30<@Rubidium>OwenS: 9 is more than enough :)
15:30<OwenS>Rubidium: No, progsigs actually spams some info at 10
15:30<@Rubidium>you added even more levels?
15:30<OwenS>...I think :p
15:31<OwenS>Nope, 10
15:31<OwenS>DEBUG(misc, 10, " Executing instruction %d, opcode %d", this->instruction->Id(), this->instruction->Opcode());
15:32<OwenS>I think debug.h says 10 is the "maximum" though
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15:44<George>Is it possible to make OTTD not to show reserved rail rtacks for trains?
15:45<Alberth>disable the option?
15:45<OwenS>George: its an option off by default
15:45<George>disable the display
15:45<George>It is on for me and I can't find where to make it off
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>in interface section of advanced settings, probably
15:46<George>Eddi|zuHause: But where exactly? I've looked there alredy, but did not find
15:47<George>found
15:47<PeterT>A wiki search brings me to http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Interface
15:47<George>It's the 8-th line
15:48<George>Thank you, missed it from the first look
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15:53<Ammler>Alberth: your mine is gone :-)
15:54<Ammler>ah, transfer
15:55<Alberth>probably yes, have been digging diamonds since the 30's :)
15:56<Ammler>no transfer orders is quite confusing..
15:56<Alberth>yes, that is one of the flaws imho
15:56<Alberth>being a cargo-dist game, it should do that stuff by itself, I think
15:58<Ammler>it does?
15:58<Ammler>you mean, it shouldn't?
15:59<Alberth>it does not afaik
15:59<Ammler>I desynced, else I would check :-)
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16:06<Ammler>Alberth: you don't need to transfer, so in your example I removed the transfer
16:07<Ammler>now around half will be dropped to the bank at the rail station, the other half transfered for the town with the rvs
16:07<Alberth>oh, just force unloading is enough?
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16:07<Ammler>force unloading isn't needed, either
16:08<Alberth>you built a bridge to the island?
16:08<Ammler>oh, that wasn't you?
16:08<Alberth>hmm, need to do more testing then
16:08<Ammler>:-)
16:09<Ammler>Alberth: http://imagebin.ca/view/oF2_UM.html
16:10<Alberth>ha, the town came to the other side :)
16:10<Ammler>this town has 3 banks
16:11<Alberth>yeah, stupid. same with water towers I noticed.
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16:11<planetmaker>it keeps a cool head over all the money ;-)
16:13<Ammler>such things are quite nice things of cargodist
16:14<Ammler>but it should be a bit more manageable how much will get to the industry there, how much will be transfered
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16:21<PeterT>is FS#3530 going to just sit and idle or is anyone going to do anything about it?
16:21-!-ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:24<Alberth>euhm, does flyspray have such settings at all?
16:24-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
16:24<Alberth>ie are you not confused with tt-forumsn?
16:24<Alberth>-n
16:25<planetmaker>Alberth, it does. I get the same error
16:25<PeterT>Alberth: Obviously, why else would that task be there?
16:25<Alberth>ah, just found them :)
16:26<planetmaker>not that I looked at that page more than twice before, I think ;-)
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16:28<Alberth>well, given that it is 3 months old, I guess it will not get fixed soon
16:29<SmatZ__>is that openttd bug at all?
16:29<Alberth>it's a FS bug
16:29<PeterT>Most of them are...
16:29-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30*Alberth thinks most bugs in FS are about openttd, not about FS
16:30<planetmaker>:-)
16:30<PeterT>hehe
16:30<planetmaker>It depends on the ?proj=
16:31<planetmaker>:-D
16:31<planetmaker>Flyspray still has the category "Webtranslator 2"
16:31<planetmaker>rather project
16:31<Alberth>we also lost the publication of FS changes in one of the IRC channels a time ago. I once asked about that, and got as answer that support for that was not available in the newer FS version. I think TB doesn't fancy digging around in the FS code too much.
16:32<PeterT>that would be neat
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16:32<PeterT>#openttd.bugs
16:32<planetmaker>.notice
16:32<Alberth>(at least, I think it is TB that set it up, but I am not sure about that)
16:33<Alberth>PeterT: we had that
16:33<planetmaker>I recall Rb messing around with it... but who knows :-)
16:33<PeterT>andythenorth: Nice HEQS trams
16:42<@Rubidium>planetmaker: messing with what?
16:42<planetmaker>flyspray
16:42<planetmaker>the statement was: you know it better than TB
16:42<@Rubidium>oh, I rather not
16:43<planetmaker>and no one wants to do it, yes :-)
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18:03<Terkhen>good night
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22:03<Wizzleby>question for any familliar with building openttd on osx, is the crazy CFLAG setting in config.lib really necessary? Are there certain parts that are more wanted than others?
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22:04<Wizzleby>s:familliar:familiar:
22:05<+glx>you just need to run configure
22:10<Wizzleby>of that much I am aware, and then CFLAGS gets some oddball settings like -O3 -funroll-loops etc
22:11<+glx>looks like optimisation stuff
22:20<Wizzleby>it is, it's rather agressive use of CFLAGS actually, practically ricing I'd say. For context, I am debugging the ebuild script to work properly with gentoo prefix on an OSX host, and so, unless I patch config.lib to remove that check, those CFLAGS get pulled in to a user's build, which causes failure on some systems
22:22<Wizzleby>the general policy in Gentoo for CFLAGS is to respect the environment that portage passes to the build. But in this case, heavy optimisation is pulled in which can conflict with a user's global CFLAGS
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22:29<+glx>well it's not really the right time to ask as most devs are in CEST time zone
22:30<+glx>and it's time to sleep for me
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 29 00:00:10 2010