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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-07

---Logopened Wed Apr 07 00:00:46 2010
00:10-!-DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has joined #openttd
00:15<DanMacK>Hello all
00:18<Mazur>Hi.
00:20<Mazur>If you have a set of grouped trains on shread orders, and you actuvate the timerable on one of them, will hte timetable get shares, as well? And if so, will hte game space the set out over the trajectory they must follow?
00:21<Mazur>shrad oorders, rather than shread.
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00:49<Eddi|zuHause>Mazur: yes, no.
00:50<russell_h>does anyone know where I can download opengfx?
00:51<Eddi|zuHause>google knows. the installer knows. the game knows, the website knows...
00:52<russell_h>the website seems to be down
00:52<Eddi|zuHause>which website?
00:54<russell_h>pretty much anything on openttdcoop.org as far as I can tell
00:55<Eddi|zuHause>then try this? http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/OpenGFX-0.2.3.tar.gz
00:55<russell_h>ah, looks like things are mirrored on
00:55<russell_h>yeah, that
00:55<russell_h>thanks
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01:09<Mazur>Thanks.
01:09<Priski>morgen all
01:09*Mazur <_---- bedwards.
01:09<Mazur>See you tomorrow.
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03:12<planetmaker>moin
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03:24<dih>morning
03:24<Priski>morning
03:25-!-TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd
03:25<ragzid>morning
03:28<Eddi|zuHause>gninrom
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03:29<Priski>hard to stay still after 4 cups of coffee
03:30<Priski>yet I have nothing to do
03:33-!-ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
03:33<planetmaker>hm... openttd.org is also not really fast right now....
03:35<planetmaker>504 Gateway Time-out
03:36<Priski>does not open for me either
03:38<@peter1138>i'd fix it myself
03:38<@peter1138>but, being a professional sysadmin by trade, i have no rights on openttd's systems :p
03:38<dih>:-D
03:40<planetmaker>he :-P
03:43-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@26.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
03:43<Terkhen>good morning
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03:59-!-zombie_monkey [~krum@77.77.32.200] has joined #openttd
03:59<zombie_monkey>any advice on which AI to use? all of the ones I've tried so far have crashed
03:59<zombie_monkey>like, they don't even start
04:00-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@4.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
04:02<zombie_monkey>at the time they're supposed to start playing I get a message in the AI debugger
04:02<zombie_monkey>and that's it.
04:04<planetmaker>then try the other ones :-)
04:04<planetmaker>and try with their newest versions
04:05<planetmaker>especially NoCAB gets currently very frequent updates.
04:05<zombie_monkey>I tried NoCab, Admiral, Simple and Rondja
04:06<planetmaker>Give them a 2nd chance. And also try CluelessPlus
04:06<zombie_monkey>rondje didn't crash, and it built and HQ and stopped
04:06<zombie_monkey>the otehr ones crashed
04:06<planetmaker>Also those AIs can only get better, if you help the authors by making decent bug reports about their respective AIs.
04:06<zombie_monkey>oh, wait, it crashed now
04:06<zombie_monkey>planetmaker: yeah, I know
04:07<zombie_monkey>it's just... am I doing something wrong?
04:07<zombie_monkey>I mean sure, I'd love to help with bug reports but they're not working at all
04:07<planetmaker>for the end user there's not much more you can do than start the AI.
04:08<planetmaker>While all those AI are not 100% stable, they usually do the job for me quite fine, especially AdmiralAI.
04:08<planetmaker>And then NoCAB and CluelessPlus and Rondje
04:08<planetmaker>ChoCho might still be interesting but developement seems to have stalled.
04:10<zombie_monkey>planetmaker: maybe you have to play on specific map settings so they don't crash?
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04:22<zombie_monkey>well I odn't know what the problem is but none of them work at all.
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04:25<Terkhen>what message do you get?
04:26<ragzid>Terkhen: he left
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04:28<Terkhen>one of the few cons of having join / part in a different window
04:29<ragzid>that's why I'm using irssi in default configuration :)
04:30<ragzid>anyway, time to go to school, test of integration is waiting...
04:31<jordi>blathijs, Rubidium: the Ubuntu stuff got an OK, it's now on the hands of the release team
04:31<@Rubidium>jordi: lovely!
04:32<blathijs>jordi: You mean the sponsor OK, right?
04:32<jordi>and I have instructions to prod release team members if they don't say anything soon
04:32<jordi>this needs testing ASAP
04:33<blathijs>:-)
04:33<jordi>so I'll use more superpowers because I know a few of the release team members well
04:34-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-214-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
04:38<jordi>done
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04:46<@Rubidium>yesterday 11740 downloads of OpenTTD (11219 of 1.0.0, 77% Windows, 15% Debian/Ubuntu, 4% Linux generic, 3% source). Furthermore 81960 BaNaNaS downloads (85% via the mirror). 138 GiB offloaded to the mirror, 77 GiB by our own server (80% of that HTTP traffic)
04:47<planetmaker>wow.
04:47<Terkhen>:)
04:47<planetmaker>Nearly 10x the usual load, if I see that correctly
04:48<@Rubidium>planetmaker: bandwidth wise it is (at least comparing to pre 1.0.0-beta)
04:49<@Rubidium>2009 average is roughly 2000 binary downloads a day
04:49<@Rubidium>and some 15000 bananas downloads a day
04:50<@Rubidium>and 600 GiB a month
04:50-!-Mrruben5 [~ruben@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
04:50<jordi>Rubidium: who sponsors/pays for that bw?
04:51<@Rubidium>jordi: the main server, that's paid from the donations
04:51<@Rubidium>the mirrors are paid with appreciation
04:51<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/slashdot-lw-stats.png <- when did the slashdot article surface? :)
04:52<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/slashdot-download-stats.pdf <- just the downloads per hour
04:52<planetmaker>Hehe :-)
04:53<planetmaker>but it seems only the smaller sub-peak might be slash-dot - related, given the download count of the last days...
04:54<@Rubidium>that second peak looks like Europeans coming home and downloading OpenTTD or so (after checking out the website at work)
04:54<planetmaker>Looking at http://www.openttd.org/en/stats it tells me that ~6000 ... 8000 were expected as opposed to the 11000 seen
04:55<planetmaker>so... 3-4k downloads due to slashdot :-)
04:56<TrueBrain>6000 is more like what would be expected
04:56<TrueBrain>so that make 5000 slashdot
04:57<@Rubidium>probably a bit more because of it being a tuesday which has less than in weekends and because monday was a holiday in Europe, i.e. TB's expectation is probably right/a little too high
04:57<planetmaker>hm, yeah
04:58<TrueBrain>we btw got 3760 visitors from slashdot
04:58<@Rubidium>and that's optimistic because with 1.0.0-beta1 we saw peak-40% after 5 days
04:58<TrueBrain>(which have their 'referer' active)
05:02-!-zombie_monkey [~krum@77.77.32.200] has joined #openttd
05:03<zombie_monkey>hm, so the problem is nothing compiles, there are erros in the libraries, and sometimes the ais can't find the libraries
05:03<zombie_monkey>at all.
05:03<zombie_monkey>someone in the forums has the same problem
05:03<zombie_monkey>btw, downloading most things except ronje is not reflected in the online content download interface
05:04<zombie_monkey>although I can see them in ~/.openttd/ai/
05:04<planetmaker>AI libraries are loaded automatically as a dependency
05:12<zombie_monkey>http://pastebin.org/139828
05:12<zombie_monkey>examples
05:15<zombie_monkey>http://pastebin.org/139830
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05:53<Galdar>What am I supposed to do if I want this for OSX, anyone here who can tell me how, or you guys might at have guide of some sort?
05:53<dih>google translate? ^^
05:54<dih>just kidding ;-)
05:54<@peter1138>there are some OS X builds floating around, i suppose
05:54<dih>someone at the tt-forums built 1.0.0 for os x
05:54<dih>never tried it - perhaps pm knows more
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06:06<Galdar>this one works well :)
06:06<Galdar>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47856&hilit=osx
06:07<dih>Galdar: on which os exactly?
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06:12<nico>hello
06:13<nico>i was wondering where the downloaded AIs were stocked
06:13<nico>because I tried moving the folder to another computer who cannot access the internet to get the AIs
06:13-!-ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:13<nico>and there isn't any :<
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06:17<nico>or, how could i change the default port to download the in game contents?
06:17<nico>please? :3
06:19<blathijs>nico: What port exactly and why do you want that?
06:20<jordi>blathijs: I need someone to test 1.0.0 in lucid and confirm SDL works ok
06:20<nico>cause the port of the in-game downloader is blocked here
06:20<nico>i vpn'd at home to download the files using the in game downloader
06:21<nico>then transfered the openttd folder
06:21<nico>and there wasn't any of the things i had downloaded, yet they are present on the distant computer
06:21<jordi>if there's any Ubuntu lucid user here, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openttd/+bug/556593
06:21<dih>jordi: what's with a vm?
06:22<OwenS>nico, they're stored under your user profile folder
06:22<jordi>dih: lack of time
06:22<nico>oh!
06:22<nico>indeed :3
06:22<nico>thanks
06:23<jordi>dih: also, I'm happy with how well openttd works on squeeze right now. :)
06:23<dih>^^
06:23<blathijs>jordi: I'm already booting up beta-1 in Virtualbox :-)
06:23-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBB2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:23<blathijs>Though it seems to be either really slow or not working right now
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06:39<blathijs>Bah, Lucid doesn't run in Virtualbox due to a virtualbox / kernel bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+bug/510571
06:39<blathijs>Perhaps without ACPI
06:40<Noldo>dual booting is the way to go
06:40<Galdar>dih os x snow
06:40<blathijs>Noldo: Not for just doing some testing on the openttd package, really
06:40<blathijs>Noldo: Also, I don't have any free disk partitions for dual booting :-)
06:41<Noldo>lvm <3
06:41<blathijs>s/free disk partitions/unassigned lvm space/
06:41<Noldo>:)
06:41<OwenS>ZFS > LVM :P
06:41<blathijs>I've already had to free up space to download the ISO :-)
06:42<TrueBrain>omg, not that discusion again
06:42<OwenS>:P
06:43-!-TT1a1a1 [~mIRC@5ad5d388.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
06:43<TT1a1a1>hey guys
06:43<TT1a1a1>first off, congrats on the release of version 1
06:43-!-Galdar [~Galdar@mail.holsths.dk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
06:44<TT1a1a1>second, what can i do to get on an authorities good side?
06:44<TT1a1a1>apart from bribes
06:45<OwenS>TT1a1a1, good service, tree bribes
06:45<planetmaker>good service to stations in their area of influence and patience
06:45-!-lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd40.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:45<TT1a1a1>cant get a foothold in the area
06:45<planetmaker>First build your stations while it is allowed, then the infrastructure.
06:45<OwenS>Then tree bribe them: Demolish all their trees and replace them. They forget you demolished them in the first place :p
06:45<planetmaker>For now build in another city :-)
06:46<TT1a1a1>ah, ill try the tree bribe
06:46<TT1a1a1>could do with a better way to do that
06:46<TT1a1a1>maybe a 'assainate council leader' option
06:46<TT1a1a1>lol
06:47<TT1a1a1>no other cities left, playing the UK scenario and have been spending my time linking up scotlands towns
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06:51<dih>fast forward, start over, ...
06:53<dih>http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ <- heh!
06:54<TT1a1a1>whats the plan now that version one is out? are there plans to expand it out to new features?
06:55<planetmaker>no. It will be left as is and we all now start working on OpenRealism
06:55<TT1a1a1>whats that?
06:56<planetmaker>a moderately funny answer to a moderately sensible question :-)
06:56<dih>a commercial clone of openttd just more realistic
06:56<planetmaker>Well... anyone could even sell it :-)
06:56<dih>there already is a contract with atari
06:56<planetmaker>even now :-)
06:57<dih>had a legal battle with CS, but he lost
06:57*dih coughs
06:57*dih chokes
06:57<planetmaker>:-D
06:58<planetmaker>TT1a1a1, honestly: sure it will go on. There's no "vision" yet as what constitutes a version 2.0, though
06:58<TT1a1a1>ah cool
06:58<dih>but everybody has a vision of what could be done
06:59<dih>at least i assume they do ^^
06:59<planetmaker>but development already progressed passed 1.0
06:59<planetmaker>with some very nifty features :-)
06:59<planetmaker>dih, I don't think so.
06:59<dih>uh... what have i missed in the past 10 days?
06:59<planetmaker>Many people have a length wishlist of this and that patch or so.
06:59<planetmaker>But vision? Few
06:59<planetmaker>Very few
06:59<dih>at least yexo should have some bright ideas ^^
06:59<TT1a1a1>definitely, im well impressed so far
07:00<planetmaker>collection of ideas != vision :-)
07:00<dih>but a vision requires ideas ^^
07:00<dih>at least that kind of 'vision' ^^
07:01<TT1a1a1>i dont think the ideas are the issue, its how to deliver them inside the game
07:01<TT1a1a1>whether they are turned on or not
07:01<planetmaker>The issue of a new vision rather is "what general direction do we want to go" - not the level of "this feature or that"
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07:02<planetmaker>cargodist + 3d + multicore + mmorp is no vision.
07:02<TT1a1a1>lol
07:02<TT1a1a1>agreed
07:02<dih>no - it's sillyness ^^
07:02<planetmaker>not really :-P
07:03<planetmaker>I think adding "multicore" in some way to the vision might be a good thing; maybe also a re-worked client-server model
07:03<dih>3d + multicore?
07:04<planetmaker>dih, yes...
07:04<planetmaker>I don't say it's easy, I'm aware of all the threads which result in "not possible"
07:04<dih>^^
07:05<dih>the gui just was reworked ^^
07:05<planetmaker>But given the way hardware development goes, the trend clearly is that people don't own the super high end computer anymore, but the number crunching is done on servers.
07:05<Noldo>openttd is a single core app bt desing
07:05<planetmaker>And bandwidth gets cheaper
07:05<planetmaker>I don't claim I have an idea on the implementation side nor any detailed idea about it. But *something* in that direction might seem sensible.
07:05<dih>openttd is very low on bw compared to other games, but again, comparing, openttd has a huge state
07:06<planetmaker>"on bw"?
07:06<planetmaker>nvm. bandwidth
07:06<dih>erm - run a css server at home with it's 800GB traffic a month and see what your isp tells you ^^
07:07<planetmaker>yes. So there might be some trade-off between bandwidth and CPU usage to be considered
07:07<__ln__>*its
07:07<dih>yes, but the css state is small
07:07<dih>compared to openttd
07:07<planetmaker>dih, Those servers surely cannot be run from your dial-up, I know.
07:07<dih>^^
07:07<dih>100 mbit, goot latency.....
07:08<dih>*good
07:08<Mazur>Morning, all.
07:08<jordi>Rubidium, blathijs: this is looking good.
07:09<Mazur>(Well, yes, it is afternoon, I know, I just played rather late, of course.)
07:09<jordi>Rubidium: oops, I hadn't seen your reply
07:10<jordi>Rubidium: thanks for the input
07:10<blathijs>jordi: Yeah, I saw. I'll stop trying to get Ubuntu running now (Trying to compile openttd using only a ramdisk and 512MB of RAM turns out to be hopeless :-p)
07:11<jordi>heh
07:12<Mazur>Would it not be great, if you could predefine a number of combinations of items, so you can build them in one go?
07:12<@Rubidium>blathijs: just take the package from OpenTTD's site
07:14<Mazur>Like for instance: I have a developing idea of how to implement a train station, if I could predefine the oombination(s), I would keep forgetting to build all the details like a busstop, a lorry bay and a depot.
07:14<Mazur>would not
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07:16<Mazur>Or to buy adjacent land for expansion when the time comes.
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07:22<Mazur>Idea 2: I would be most convenient, if in train orders one could designate trains as either: Stopping Train (Meaning visit each station along the road) or IC (Meaning: Only visit those stations mentioned, pass the rest by if possible).
07:22<@Rubidium>you can already do that
07:23<@Rubidium>go non-stop to vs go to
07:23<Mazur>Non-stop does the second half, not non-stop the first.
07:23<Mazur>Yes, I realised.
07:25<Mazur>Idea 3: Would it not be convenient to be able to have trains run from the end backwards through the list, instead of having to visit each intervening station again for say, a stopping train?
07:25<@Rubidium>that idea's not new either
07:25<Mazur>Ooptional, of course, one might want a circle line.
07:25<Mazur>Implemented?
07:26<@Rubidium>no, but it's suggested literally hundreds of times
07:26<Mazur>Ah, ok.
07:26<Mazur>Well, I was bound to have a non-original idea, as well.
07:26<Mazur>:-D
07:28<Mazur>I was a bit disappointed yesterday, when a group of 4 sharing trains took a different route back to the starting point, through a very crowded and overused station. But I'll be using waypoints in the future.
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07:30<Mazur>I find Signs to be dreadfully helpful, by the way, I've been using them a lot yesterday when revamping my train network.
07:31<Mazur>Making a sign everwhere where I was redesigning, to help memorise which track was supposed to go where.
07:31<Mazur>Cleared out most of my spaghetti.
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08:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19571 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3739]: The timetable button was not automatically raised (sbr)
08:06<planetmaker>Rubidium, should be restarted
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08:13<planetmaker>by now :-)
08:13<planetmaker>(but same map)
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09:00<Jupix>what's a XXXX_z0m.png file?
09:00<dih>an image
09:00<Jupix>heh hee, i was asking for that, wasn't i
09:01<Jupix>point was, what's its relation to 32bit-EZ
09:02<Jupix>CC mask perhaps?
09:04<Belugas>hello
09:04<@Rubidium>hello Belugas
09:06<Belugas>sir master Rubidium, i humbly bow in front of you and present my most sincere salutations
09:06<dih>oh my - this is getting ugly ^^
09:07<@Rubidium>dih: what is?
09:10<blathijs>jordi: Awesome, Ubuntu granted the exception :-D
09:10<dih>imagining belugs with his oh so sincere salutiataions ^^
09:10<dih>*belugas
09:11<__ln__>dih: you can't dereference belugas unless he's a pointer
09:15<@Rubidium>blathijs: that'll make many people happy!
09:15<Belugas>i point out me deference to those who i consider worth it :)
09:15<Belugas>you had yours too, dih ;)
09:16<Belugas>jealous!!!!
09:16<@Rubidium>blathijs: so, only the "sparc" issue remains (did you or jordi poke sparc@buildd.d.o?)
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09:19<@Rubidium>blathijs: did "we" ever test installing our OpenTTD packages over Debian's?
09:20<jordi>blathijs: ha, fantastic
09:20<jordi>hopefully 1.0.0 is a good enough version
09:20<jordi>because getting 1.0.1 is going to be fscking hard
09:21<@Rubidium>jordi: but then they can download "our" package which should get all the other stuff from Ubuntu's repository
09:22<jordi>"our" package is made by blathijs I assume, right?
09:22<@Rubidium>jordi: nah, by our compile farm
09:22<jordi>ie, it's compatible, no file collisions, etc?
09:22<jordi>"made by" means the debian/ dir is the same as in Debian
09:23<@Rubidium>no, it's slightly different to not make two packages
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09:23<@Rubidium>and the changelog's content is different
09:23<jordi>uhm. hopefully it has the necessary replaces
09:23<@Rubidium>the rest should (now again) be the same
09:24<blathijs>Rubidium: Hmm, I was going to test that, but I think I didn't
09:24<@Rubidium>oh, and it doesn't have the depends/recommends yet
09:24<blathijs>jordi: It should have the necessary stuff, it just hasn't been tested yet I think
09:25<blathijs>Rubidium: I'll try to test that later today
09:25<@Rubidium>lovely... 1.0.0 won't replace 1.0.0-1 :)
09:25<@Rubidium>that's "good"
09:25<jordi>Rubidium: what do you mean "replace"?
09:26<jordi>absence of Debian revision implies -0, if you mean that
09:26<@Rubidium>jordi: that it fails to downgrade it (not sure whether that's right or not)
09:26<@Rubidium>building a .deb with a much newer version to properly test it
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09:27<blathijs>Rubidium: Downgrade what to where?
09:28<@Rubidium>1.0.0-1 to 1.0.0
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09:29<blathijs>Hmm, I see that now as well. It considers removing openttd-data (which it should), but doesn't for some reason I don't understand
09:29<blathijs>Perhaps because it is a downgrade? That's probably what you mean by building a newer version, then.
09:29<blathijs>Rubidium: Why is the version number 1.0.0, not 1.0.0-1 ?
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09:33<@Rubidium>blathijs: because I didn't add the -1 in changelog I think; after all, it's not an official Debian package
09:33<blathijs>Rubidium: No, but it's not a Debian native package either (which is what the current version number says)
09:33<blathijs>Something like 1.0.0~openttd.org-1 might be better, then?
09:34<@Rubidium>blathijs: but as jordi says, it implies -0
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09:34<@Rubidium>so I guess we'll just go with -0 from now on (if I don't forget)
09:35<blathijs>Not sure if -0 is distinguishable from no debian revision everywhere
09:35<blathijs>How about -1~openttd.org ? That's similar to what bpo does?
09:36<blathijs>Rubidium: Btw, upgrading from Debian rc3 to openttd.org 1.0.0 doesn't work either, same error
09:36<@Rubidium>ah, shouldn't have added the Conflicts, that conflicts with Replaces
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09:42<blathijs>Rubidium: Dunno, I thought it was obvious from reading the policy manual before, but now I don't exactly get the difference between the two uses of Replaces anymore
09:43<blathijs>Here: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-replaces
09:43<blathijs>jordi: Any comments on that?
09:47<blathijs>Rubidium: It seems aptitude handles the Conflicts line just fine, when I put the openttd.org version in a repository
09:48<@Rubidium>dpkg doesn't
09:48<blathijs>Even when downgrading
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09:52<blathijs>Rubidium: Removing the Conflicts line just makes things more confusing
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09:52<blathijs>Rubidium: It does install, but it keeps openttd-data around (since there are some files that aren't replaced, like stuff in /usr/share/doc/openttd-data and some directories in /usr/share/games/openttd/)
09:53<blathijs>Let's ask #debian-devel
09:53<@Rubidium>so the 'current' package is 'better' :(
09:54<@Rubidium>and how to force the package building to perform the patch for openttd-wrapper?
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09:58<blathijs>Rubidium: Using dpkg --auto-deconfigure does work
09:59<blathijs>Rubidium: Which is what dpkg suggests when it fails
10:01<@Rubidium>now I only need to figure out how to get the openttd-wrapper patch applied when creating the package
10:01<@Rubidium>from just a source checkout + ln -s os/debian debian
10:03<blathijs>Rubidium: Do you have quilt?
10:04<@Rubidium>blathijs: Yexo
10:04<@Rubidium>blathijs: yes... tab completing words doesn't work :(
10:04<planetmaker>what kind of openttd-wrapper patch is that you talk about?
10:04<blathijs>Rubidium: Try running "QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt push -a" before building
10:04<blathijs>planetmaker: It's a patch to make the .desktop file call openttd-wrapper instead of openttd
10:05<blathijs>planetmaker: And the wrapper captures stderr and shows it if needed
10:05<planetmaker>ah... so that even non-xterm users are able to capture that? Nice :-)
10:05<blathijs>planetmaker: It's ugly (uses xmessage), but it beats silent failure :-)
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10:05<planetmaker>yup, very much so.
10:07<blathijs>Rubidium: What do you use for building? Just calling dpkg-buildpackage?
10:08<@Rubidium>debian/rules binary (at the moment at least)
10:09<blathijs>Rubidium: It seems dpkg-buildpackage doesn't do any patch application either, so that won't matter
10:09<@Rubidium>blathijs: http://rbijker.net/openttd/foes.diff <- the current difference (openttd-wrapper and NEWS are trailing whitespace)
10:10<blathijs>Rubidium: Only dpkg-source does so, but then you need to build a source package and then extract it, since dpkg-source doesn't just seem to have a "only apply patches" command
10:10<blathijs>Rubidium: So using quilt is probably best
10:12<blathijs>Rubidium: If you want to minimize the diff, I'd still install everything into debian/tmp and just put a single line "debian/tmp" into openttd.install
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10:17<@Rubidium>yay... the package works
10:17<@Rubidium>now I only need to 'fix' the compile farm
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10:18<blathijs>Rubidium: As for the replaces/conflicts thing, #debian-devel thinks it is intended to work like this (though they're not entirely sure) and don't know how to fix this in the package
10:19<@Rubidium>okay, then we'll leave it at conflicts + replaces
10:19<@Rubidium>and I'll mess with the CF after tonight's run
10:19<blathijs>Rubidium: but I guess our users that are smart enough to run "dpkg -i" in a console are probably smart enough to add the --auto-deconfigure when dpkg suggests so
10:23<@Rubidium>okay, going from 1.0.0-1 to 1.1~svn-0 and back seems to go fine (for -> 1.1~svn-0 the --auto-deconfigure is needed)
10:23<@Rubidium>now some time for something else
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10:52<Mazur>Is there a way to have a platform allow two trains to unload, one after the other?
10:52<Mazur>Or load.
10:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19572 /trunk/os/debian/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Change: sync Debian packaging updates from Debian, but keep building a single package
10:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19573 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix (r19541): Special cargos did not appear at the refit list.
10:54<Mazur>Looking on the web I did not find it can, so i suppose not.
10:55<Mazur>Of course, leave a gap in hte station with a signal between.
10:55<Mazur>Dumb, dumb, dumb.
10:57<Mazur>Except they'll start stopping at the first signal again, of course.
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11:20<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19574 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix: graphs were not properly updated when going toggling keys (i.e. companies)
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12:09<Mazur>Here's my solution to my previous problem: http://53551a99.cable.casema.nl/pics/Double_length_Station.png
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12:10<Mazur>Any comments? I saee the eight platform is not loading, and have not yet deciphered why.
12:10<planetmaker>Mazur, you should seriously consider to open a thread about your findings in the tt-forums.
12:10<planetmaker>Just not sure wheter screenshots or problems ;-)
12:10<Mazur>Should I? I'd hardly expect to do any groundbreaking work here.
12:11<Mazur>Only my first game, still.
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12:12<Mazur>planetmaker: Well, I can be a problem, I suppose.
12:12<Mazur>;-P
12:12<planetmaker>I don't know wether it's ground working ;-) But it might a) be easier to review, if coherently described in a single posting and b) fetch the attention of those people who like to deal with that - but which aren't always online
12:13<Mazur>Is this a polite way to say: Shut up, this is not the right place, you're bothering us?
12:14<planetmaker>not really :-) This is the IRC channel related to openttd, both playing and developing, so it's the right place :-)
12:15<Mazur>Ah, ok.
12:15*Rubidium votes for wrong refit
12:15<planetmaker>But... looking at that station, Mazur - it's horribly inefficient.
12:18<Mazur>I suppose so, but from the "far end"/"middle end"/"near end" option I surmised it might be possible to use one platform for two trains simultaniously, and this is the test case.
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12:18<Mazur>So initially I just built a double length station, to test it out.
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12:19<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/e/ed/PSG176.png <-- if you want something like that build it the fast way, oblique stations.
12:19<Mazur>It became quickly clear I'd jumpewd to the wrong conclusion.
12:19<planetmaker>you can skip the lone entry and exit, if you like, though it cuts on your station's through-put
12:20<Ammler>he, seems like moving DevZone to nginx solved our issues :-)
12:21<planetmaker>(what you see in that image is actually 6 stations - as a single station or saw mill cannot accept the amount of wood which we shipped there :-P )
12:21<planetmaker>Ammler, that's very good news :-)
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12:26<Ammler>I really hope so...
12:27<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/a/a2/PSG140.PNG <-- Mazur maybe a bit simpler example
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12:36<Mazur>Interesting study material, planetmaker. I bookmarked them both, for when I understand signals better, as well.
12:37<planetmaker>Mazur, rather bookmark our PublicServer archive ;-)
12:37<planetmaker>It has ~170 games of that style
12:37<Mazur>Have already done so.
12:37<planetmaker>ok :-)
12:38<Mazur>Seen a few the examples there, too.
12:38<planetmaker>some call it insane, some have fun with it ;-)
12:38<Mazur>For now I'm using this station as a test case, also for learning loading speeds.
12:38<planetmaker>If I play alone, I build usually something in between ;-) Efficient but dynamically grown
12:39<planetmaker>loading speed is given by the wagons.
12:39<planetmaker>And only drastically slower, if the station is too short
12:39<Mazur>I mean which platforms load fastest.
12:40<Mazur>I've noticed a bias towards certain positions.
12:41<planetmaker>platform?
12:41<planetmaker>It doesn't matter
12:41<Mazur>If the production is to the side of the platforms, for instance, the one nearest fills way faster than the farthest.
12:41<planetmaker>nope
12:42<+glx>some are good to test PF performance :)
12:42<planetmaker>all station tiles are equal
12:42<planetmaker>probably §1 of the declaration of independent stations or so :-P
12:42<Ammler>[18:38] <planetmaker> some call it insane, some have fun with it <-- insane is fun :-P
12:42<Mazur>You sure? I thought I'd quite often seen the last train to arrive be one of the first to leave. And most certainly the percentage filled goes faster.
12:43<planetmaker>:-D
12:43<planetmaker>Mazur, the choice of which train gets loaded - that might be a function of the station tile. Dunno
12:43<planetmaker>But the loading speed: I'm 99.5% sure that it doesn't matter.
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12:43<planetmaker>The 0.5% might be some kind of transient and weired bug.
12:43<planetmaker>;-)
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12:44<Ammler>glx, our current game is good to test pbs interval, we usually use 1, there we were able to drop cpu from 90 to 50% with rising it to 10
12:44<Mazur>Not if there are no nearer trains, but in a full station, nearest gets filled first. Or so I thought to have seen.
12:45<Ammler>the first time I saw a real game influenced from it
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12:54<planetmaker>Mazur, I'm quite sure it's not nearest, but rather the one which occupies the tile with the lowest ID
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>i would have guessed the train with the lowest ID...
12:57<planetmaker>or that :-)
12:57<planetmaker>I've no clue
12:57<planetmaker>But I'm quite sure it does NOT depend upon the distance to the source of the cargo ;-)
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>what a crazy idea :p
12:58<Mazur>Well, that's what I'm trying to find out, by observation.
12:58<planetmaker>which in the case of a station embedded within a town would be quite difficult to determine
12:59<Mazur>Well, I just don't know, do I? :-) But I will.
13:01<Mazur>Just as I will learn all the pitfalls, problems and benefits of using one type of signal over the other, where which type is best, in other words, how to really use them.
13:01<planetmaker>Mazur, then start reading the source code ;-)
13:01<planetmaker>that will most reliably tell you the priority for loading one train or another.
13:01<Mazur>I'd rather not, I expect there is a lot of it.
13:01<planetmaker>30k lines or so ;-)
13:02<planetmaker>IIRC
13:02<Belugas>naaa... just a few lines...
13:02<Belugas>bummer :P
13:02<planetmaker>:-P
13:02<Mazur>And I prefer to postpone that until I understand the game mechanics better from playing.
13:02<planetmaker>so... finally... BBQ is being heated :-)
13:02<planetmaker>catch you later :-)
13:02<Mazur>Eat well,
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13:02*Mazur is also starting on dinner.
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13:11*Belugas has finished his lunch during meeting-conference call
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13:24<ddfreyne>is it possible to irrigate land?
13:24<ddfreyne>(probably a silly question)
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>is this civilisation?
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>ddfreyne: what would irrigated land do to a transport company?
13:25<ddfreyne>Eddi|zuHause: give me a little bit of space to fund another industry
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>ddfreyne: what do you think irrigation means?
13:26<ddfreyne>convert desert to green land
13:26<ddfreyne>well, technically not irrigation, but you get the point, I hope
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>no, that is only possible in the scenario editor
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13:28<ddfreyne>right, is what I thought
13:28<ddfreyne>hence the (probably a silly question) :)
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13:33<Belugas>at least, you have the honnor of being the first to ask that question :)
13:34<@peter1138>yes, we need settlers, phalanx and other units
13:34<@peter1138>irigating and fortifying our territory
13:36<Belugas>hehehe
13:36<ddfreyne>ARCHERS!
13:36<Belugas>nope, sir, nope
13:37<Belugas>archers are considered as an army feature
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>phalanx... sure... but the game can't handle B.C. dates...
13:37<Belugas>and TTD is against any form of violenc, apart from trains creaching trunks
13:37<Belugas>crashing
13:37<+glx>there were no trains at time so not a problem :)
13:37<Belugas>oh...right :)
13:38-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:39*ddfreyne ships cannons to New Frentown
13:39<Belugas>sipping is good, using is not :D
13:39<Belugas>shipping
13:39*Belugas shakes his keyboard
13:40*ddfreyne sips on his cannon… mm, delicious
13:40*andythenorth is upset that TTD people die in vehicle crashes
13:41<ddfreyne>vehicle crashes? we’re talking war casualties here!
13:41<+glx>competition for transport is a war :)
13:41*andythenorth is not talking war
13:41<Belugas>i prefer Canon
13:41*ddfreyne is a Nikon guy, really
13:42<Belugas>:D
13:42-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
13:42<Nite_Owl>Hello all
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>i want cannons on my ship!
13:42*Belugas was aiming for a D5000, but could not afford one. so got a 1000D instead
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>Arrh...
13:43<Belugas>funny how they had the "D" reversed depending of the brand...
13:43<Belugas>hello Nite_Owl
13:43<Belugas>go Eddi|zuHause, go! Draw them nice and nifty!
13:43<Nite_Owl>Hello Belugas
13:44<@peter1138>Canon themselves switched the D a few times
13:44*andythenorth is in a world of FAIL
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19575 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: estonian - 18 changes by Jaanus
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: hebrew - 13 changes by dnd_man
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by junho2813
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 5 changes by 2rB
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by JayCity
13:46<Belugas>you're right, peter1138. i learned something today
13:47<Belugas>EOS D2000, EOS D6000, EOS D30, EOS D60
13:48<Belugas>everything else is xD
13:48<aber>xD?
13:48<+glx>#D if you prefer
13:48<Belugas>1D, 7D, 5D, 300D...
13:49<Belugas>wooo... EOS D6000 : a whoopy 6 megapixel slr
13:49<Nite_Owl>But are they all SLR's
13:49<Belugas>yup
13:49<Nite_Owl>no matter where the D is ??
13:49<Belugas>http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/dslr/chrono_1995-.html
13:50<aber>if prefer '0' | ('1'..'9') ('0' .. '9')*D
13:50<Belugas>branding
13:50<Belugas>the D is just for Digital
13:50<Prof_Frink>DD?
13:51<Nite_Owl>noisy landscapers
13:52<Nite_Owl>outside my window
13:52<Nite_Owl>trimming hedges
13:54<Belugas>pour some boiling oil!
13:54<Belugas>that will cool them
13:54<Belugas>hohoho
13:54<Nite_Owl>tough to pour from a one story home
13:55<Nite_Owl>unless I clamber up on the roof
13:55<Prof_Frink>Supersoaker.
13:55<Nite_Owl>while carrying a pot of hot oil
13:55<Nite_Owl>would not the plastic melt\
13:56<Nite_Owl>they will be gone soon enough - they never stick around for too long
13:57<Nite_Owl>brb
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14:00<Nite_Owl>too late
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14:02<Nite_Owl>I cannot get the tree that hangs over my car trimmed this time
14:02<Nite_Owl>it would have been a perfect time too since my car is in the shop and not under the tree
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14:05<Belugas>indeed :)
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15:01<Mazur>How does servicing work? I have a train last services in october 2310, we are now in may 2313, 2.6 years later, service interval is on 150 days, what gives?
15:02<Nite_Owl>does the train have easy access on its route to a depot ?
15:03<Mazur>Yes, at every station along the route twice, usually.
15:03<Mazur>I have not put a service order in its list.
15:04<Mazur>I'm not (yet) sending it manually, I wanted to check the automatics.
15:04<@Rubidium>have you disabled breakdowns?
15:04<Nite_Owl>do you have "breakdowns" turned off ? do you have "no service if breakdowns turned off" on ?
15:05<Mazur>I've not enabled it, more like.
15:05<Mazur>Let me look.
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15:07<Mazur>Yep, that was the bugger.
15:07<Mazur>Or simething like it.
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15:08<Mazur>No servicing is breakdowns are 0.
15:08<Mazur>if
15:08<Mazur>Thanks!
15:08<Alberth>enable breakdowns :p
15:08<Mazur>Nah, i'm still to green for that.
15:08<Mazur>:-)
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15:09<Nite_Owl>change it from within the saved game with the Advanced Settings
15:10<Nite_Owl>just changing it in the cfg will only effect new games
15:10<Mazur>If I start a new game, will the default settings or my altered settings be used?
15:10<Nite_Owl>depends on where you made the changes
15:10<Alberth>new games use settings from the main menu, existing games use settings from the stored game
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15:11<Nite_Owl>what he said
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15:11<Mazur>Through the interface. Guess I'll have to run through the config file, as well.
15:11<Mazur>Thanks.
15:11<Nite_Owl>the main menu will change the cfg
15:11<Nite_Owl>on exit
15:12<Mazur>Ah, ok.
15:12<Nite_Owl>I think it is on exit
15:12<Mazur>Well, I do regularly exit.
15:12<Alberth>yes, it is
15:12<Mazur>Once per day, that is.
15:13<Mazur>I can;t read if my trains keep howling their mournful calls to me.
15:14<Nite_Owl>so make the changes on the main menu, exit out of the game, go back into the game, and start a new game for the changes to take place
15:15<Nite_Owl>otherwise make the changes on the Advanced Settings menu from within a saved game - which will only effect that saved game
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15:28<Mazur>Until you exit that saved game...
15:28<Mazur>?
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15:29<Nite_Owl>no - the changes will be saved with the game
15:29<Nite_Owl>or within the saved game
15:31<Mazur>Another weird thing: I have an engine only 5 years out of 20 old, yet it's reliability is listed as 0%? It does very long range 11 car coal hauling.
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15:33<Anon7469>hello
15:33<Anon7469>somebody ?
15:33<Alberth>no
15:33<PeterT>Hello Anon7469
15:34<Anon7469>ty peter
15:34<Anon7469>you play tycoon in network ?
15:34<Alberth>only OpenTTD
15:34<PeterT>Anon7469: You mean multiplayer?
15:35<Anon7469>yes
15:35<Anon7469>i want to taste it^^
15:35<Anon7469>so many years i play this game
15:35<PeterT>Go ahead
15:36<Anon7469>but i didn't succeed in joining a lan
15:36<Alberth>LAN means your local network
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15:37<Anon7469>sorry i mean to say multiplayer online
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15:37<PeterT>why didn't you suceed?
15:37<PeterT>what server, and what version?
15:37-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-114-159.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:37<Alberth>MP on the Internet is done by selecting "Internet" instead of LAN
15:37<PeterT>and error messages
15:38<Nite_Owl>Mazur: Reliability is based on the last time the engine was serviced
15:38<Anon7469>i don' have the good OTTD
15:39<Anon7469>that's the message
15:39<PeterT>ok
15:39<Anon7469>because of grf ??
15:39<PeterT>You need the same version as the server
15:39<Nite_Owl>if you have been having trouble with servicing then that is why the reliability is 0%
15:39<Anon7469>ah
15:40<Anon7469>ok got the 0.6.0
15:40<Nite_Owl>without breakdowns turned on reliability becomes a non issue
15:40<Anon7469>it too old
15:40<Anon7469>see 1.0.0
15:40<PeterT>Yes, download 1.0.0
15:40<Ammler>yes, around 2 years
15:40<PeterT>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable
15:41<Alberth>Anon7469: http://www.openttd.org/en/servers shows the known servers, there is no 0.6.0 there
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15:41<Mazur>Ah, thanks, Nit_Owl, so I should just add servicing to that groups orders. Or lower their service interval.
15:42<Anon7469>ty for the tip
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15:42<PeterT>Anon7469: sort by compatibility
15:42<PeterT>it will only show servers that have the same version as you
15:43<Anon7469>i can't sort by it
15:43<Anon7469>is it the red light ?
15:43<PeterT>Hit the little button about the flags
15:44<Anon7469>i did it
15:44<Anon7469>all red
15:44<PeterT>and they are all red?
15:44<PeterT>You downloaded 1.0.0 and installed it, right?
15:45<Anon7469>not yet
15:45<PeterT>Do that
15:45<Nite_Owl>Mazur: Actually you could raise the service interval since it really does not matter
15:45<PeterT>because you can't join 0.6.0 servers if there are none
15:46<Anon7469>ty so much
15:46<PeterT>You're welcome.
15:47<Nite_Owl>the main reason to keep the "turn off servicing if breakdowns are set to none" setting on is so that you can still use the auto replacement feature
15:47<Anon7469>^^
15:47<Anon7469>this is so beautiful
15:50<Nite_Owl>I play with breakdowns set to none - servicing on when breakdowns are set to none - vehicle servicing set to 365 days (once a year) - and I use go to depot orders when maintenance is needed
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16:05<@peter1138>hmm, newzbin still running, heh
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16:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19576 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_gui.cpp settings.cpp settings_func.h): -Codechange: Unduplicating parse_intlist().
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16:24<moot>So I understand the basics of the game, but I can't seem to make any profits. I start with a hanful of bus stations in the three or so biggest cities, but my profits never amount to more than 3k a year, is there something I'm missing?
16:24<moot>hm, okay, that's really vague
16:24<Alberth>buses are not the most profitable way of making money
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16:25<moot>Obviously. I just figured I should start small
16:26<Nite_Owl>coal mines to power plants with trains at approx. 60 to 90 tiles distance
16:26<Alberth>coal with a train is better, or a long airplane connection
16:26<moot>I see.
16:28<Alberth>if you like pax, you can do a train service between two cities, but you need a lot of trains for a regular service
16:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19577 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_gui.cpp settings.cpp settings_func.h): -Codechange: apply coding style to names of functions in settings.cpp
16:28<Alberth>especially in the beginning when the engines are slow
16:30<Alberth>under 'graphs' there is a 'cargo payment' window that shows how much you get for each type of cargo
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16:32<TrueBrain>orudge: did the tt-forums bandwidth increased with our /.?
16:35<moot>Wow.
16:35<moot>Managed to crash trains within the first five minutes
16:35<Jolteon>fail
16:35<Jolteon>No signals?
16:36<moot>Not yet. I've never run a line with more than one train on it
16:36<moot>hell, I haven't even been playing for a full day
16:36<Alberth>the 'ignore signal' button tends to be dangerous :p
16:37<moot>I'm still working on setting up a business that doesn't go bankrupt in the first decade
16:37<moot>haven't even begun to touch signals
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17:00<sbizna>is there already an OSX build of 1.0.0 floating around?
17:00<PeterT>Yes.
17:00<sbizna>drat.
17:00<PeterT>General OpenTTD forums
17:01<sbizna>is there a reason it's not on the download page?
17:01<welshdragon>it's unofficial
17:01<PeterT>It's not supported
17:01<sbizna>drat.
17:01<welshdragon>why?
17:01<Terkhen>sbizna: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45247
17:02<PeterT>I asked for that topic to be sticked, and yet people don't see it.
17:02<sbizna>I just put some time into building one of my own, when I could've saved it if I'd Googled a litte harder
17:03<sbizna>I knew it didn't have a Mac dev
17:03<sbizna>er, doesn't
17:03<sbizna>mine runs okay on Snow Leopard
17:03<__ln__>does that version contain the original data files?
17:04<sbizna>I smooshed the OpenGFX and OpenSFX data files into it
17:06<sbizna>I should be more specific... by "runs okay" I mean "starts up..." I haven't stress tested it yet.
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17:09<andythenorth>I have been building my own Mac nightlies for ages (10.5). I have few problems
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17:15<moot>sweet
17:15<moot>finally have a profit margin
17:15<moot>thanks for the tip
17:15<moot>I just needed the right start
17:15<andythenorth>coal is the money maker in the standard game
17:15<andythenorth>or passengers between two cities with about 1,000 inhabitants
17:16<Belugas>going zhome!
17:16<Belugas>bye bye
17:16<ddfreyne>I funded two industries (£4M) and still make a yearly profit now :)
17:16<andythenorth>bye
17:17<ddfreyne>seeya
17:18<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19578 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Codechange: do not accept commas at invalid places in ParseIntList()
17:19<planetmaker>Rubidium, you might want to grab the desync data
17:22<@Rubidium>planetmaker: okay
17:22<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19579 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: auto-raise 'Enable/Disable all' buttons in the Cargo payment rates window
17:23<ddfreyne>moot: in my experience, cargo types don’t matter that much… the further away source and destination are, the bigger the pay (but the longer it is under way, the lower the pay, so train speed matters)
17:23<planetmaker>~25 minutes ago one occured.
17:23<planetmaker>30
17:24<ddfreyne>moot: when using multiple trains, build two parallel tracks in opposite directions and use basic signals for each direction… stations need signals to; they’re a bit more advanced
17:24<ddfreyne></random-hints> :>
17:24<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19580 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: auto-raise 'Enable/Disable all' buttons in the Smallmap window
17:24<@Rubidium>planetmaker: lovely... only after (almost) 2 hours
17:24<planetmaker>yep
17:24<planetmaker>seems to take (always) that long
17:25<planetmaker>but not 100% sure
17:25<ddfreyne>question… why are there two path signals in front of the station here? seem fairly useless… http://wiki.openttd.org/images/c/cb/Terminus.png
17:25<@Rubidium>for a server running 6.5 hours
17:25<planetmaker>Though perception with single - digit number of cases can be easily caused by bad statistics
17:26<@Rubidium>@calc (747946 - 738945)/74
17:26<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 121.635135135
17:26<planetmaker>MB data?
17:26<@Rubidium>@calc (747946 - 738945)
17:26<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 9001
17:27<@Rubidium>9000 days, that's a lot
17:28-!-sbizna [~sbizna@nat.tejat.net] has quit [Quit: soy sauce]
17:29<@Rubidium>oh my...
17:30<@Rubidium>[2010-04-07 22:53:46] cmd: 000b6998; 00000023; d; 000000; 00000004; 00000000; a880043;
17:30<@Rubidium>last command before the desync
17:30<fjb>ddfreyne: That are the exit Signals for the platforms.
17:31<ddfreyne>fjb: with path signals those should not be necessary, should they? it’s already a path-signalled block, after all
17:31<@Rubidium>[2010-04-06 23:01:06] cmd: 000b10c6; 00000015; 6; 000000; 0000000e; 00000000; a880043;
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17:31<@Rubidium>that's from just before the other desync
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>ddfreyne: they become necessary in case you want to extend the line on the other end
17:31<ddfreyne>Eddi|zuHause: ahh! good point, thanks
17:31<moot>I've yet to wrap my mind around signals
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>plus, they look better
17:32-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
17:32<fjb>Path signals are easy. Throw them in where a waiting train would not block anything important.
17:33<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19581 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Codechange: auto-raise 'All facilities/cargos' buttons in the Station list window
17:33<ddfreyne>path signals are very powerful… i love them for terminus stations
17:34<planetmaker>Rubidium, what does that tell me? I'm not quite into reading those command logs yet...
17:34<ddfreyne>terminus stations with lots and lots of tracks and lots of entries/exits :)
17:34<planetmaker>00000000 a880043 is the same...
17:36-!-Hirundo is now known as Jasper
17:36<planetmaker>brb
17:36-!-Jasper is now known as Hirundo
17:37<Nite_Owl>Time to fly - later all
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17:37<@Rubidium>planetmaker: same command, only different company taking over different company
17:38<@Rubidium>planetmaker: however, the a880043 happens only once in both logs
17:38<@Rubidium>planetmaker: and only shortly before the desync
17:38<@Rubidium>and you with #openttdcoop not having problems with it is simply because you never go bankrupt
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>do you desync-debug trunk or cargodist?
17:40<@Rubidium>although I now realise that some useful information is missing in commands-out.log
17:40-!-AC6000 [~AC6000@242-174.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
17:41*AC6000 sneaks in and takes a seat
17:42<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: neither
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17:46<planetmaker>back
17:46<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: 1.0
17:46<AC6000>hey planet :P
17:47<planetmaker>hey AC6000
17:47<AC6000>how be?
17:48<planetmaker>not bad albeit quite busy :-)
17:48<AC6000>lol
17:49<AC6000>so am i, i have to paint a 7 1/2" gauge locomotive and the livery is a pain to do...
17:51<planetmaker>:-)
17:51<AC6000>http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=316017&nseq=27 thats the livery
17:52<planetmaker>please fit me in as I don't recall: what set do you paint that for?
17:52<planetmaker>in any case it looks like a nice engine :-)
17:53<AC6000>set?
17:54<planetmaker>uhm... ... I'm probably subject to amnesia as it seems that I should know that you paint those engines... but I don't ;-)
17:55<AC6000>oh, well its my first time painting one :P
17:55<planetmaker>ah :-)
17:55<AC6000>it gunna be real fun to do the logo <_<
17:55<AC6000>*its
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>how much is 7 1/2" in real measures?
17:56<planetmaker>@calc 7.5*2.5
17:56<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 18.75
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17:56<planetmaker>cm? Not much
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>that is certainly not much :)
17:56<planetmaker>must be 7 1/2'
17:56<planetmaker>@calc 30*7.5
17:56<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 225
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17:56<planetmaker>2.25m is too much. Doesn't make sense...
17:57<planetmaker>or isn't that the rail size?
17:57<AC6000>1:8th scale :)
17:57<planetmaker>:-D
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds about right
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>because 1:87 is about 16mm gauge
17:58<AC6000>and its gunna be fun to lug a 700 lbs loco around the shop on a dolly ._.
17:58<planetmaker>@calc 18.75*8
17:58<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 150
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>1435mm or something is standard gauge
18:00<planetmaker>two horse backs ;-)
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>4' 8.5" (what a weird measure)
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 1435/87
18:01<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 16.4942528736
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 1435/120
18:01<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 11.9583333333
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 1435/120*87
18:01<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1040.375
18:01<+glx>1435 seems right
18:02<aber>the question is, who invented a standard for horse backs...
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>the same guys that also invented a standard for horse power...
18:02<AC6000>lol
18:02-!-Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:03<__ln__>1524mm ftw
18:04<+glx>and the fun when you need to change bogie to cross a frontier ;)
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>they do that in Brest ;)
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>they raise the whole train at the station
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>and put the new gauge bogies underneath
18:05<+glx>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Umspuranlage_Brest2.jpg
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>from france to spain they had variable axles, i think
18:05<__ln__>in soviet russia the gauge is 1520mm though
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>in germany the new tracks are also slightly wider, when the trains are supposed to go faster
18:09-!-bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit]
18:09<aber>if a horse goes faster, it needs more space
18:10<aber>its harder to coordinate the legs
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>these damn horses...
18:14<AC6000>so, anyone up for a "friendly" game of ottd? :P
18:14<TrueBrain>can I bring my gun?
18:14<AC6000>yus :P
18:15<AC6000>and one quick question...
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>*peng*
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>"shoot first, ask later"
18:16<AC6000>Infrastructure sharing or no Infrastructure sharing? :P
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>that wasn't quick at all...
18:17<AC6000><_<
18:19<Terkhen>good night
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18:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19582 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/download.html: [Website] -Change: mention mirror of OpenGFX, OpenSFX and OpenMSX downloads
18:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19583 /extra/website/ (5 files in 5 dirs): [Website] -Change: some minor website changes that have accumulated over time
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to "elementary" commits? :p
18:42<@Rubidium>me not really having a clue what changes belong together and which don't
18:42<@Rubidium>nor having a clue what over half of the changes tries to fix
18:46<TrueBrain>and I have no clue how to commit from that machine :p
18:46<TrueBrain>(and I am WAY too lazy to make a patch and commit it on my workstation :p)
18:52<@orudge>TrueBrain: we were on slashdot, eh? I hadn't noticed
18:52<@orudge>hmm
18:52<@orudge>higher bandwidth yesterday, indeed
18:52<@orudge>albeit not significantly
18:53<TrueBrain>good :)
18:53<TrueBrain>was just checking ;)
18:53<@orudge>how about on openttd.org?
18:53<@Rubidium>what is tt-forums' monthly (or daily) bandwidth use?
18:54<@Rubidium>orudge: little under 215 GiB yesterday (138 for the mirrors, 77 for the main server)
18:54<@orudge>generally around 230GB of HTTP bandwidth per month for tt-forums
18:54<@orudge>Rubidium: and what's normal these days?
18:54<@orudge>when not on slashdot :)
18:55<@Rubidium>orudge: 600-700 GiB a month for the main server
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18:57<@Rubidium>although some 10 GiB a day (little less than half of total) of that was BaNaNaS and with 1.0.0 BaNaNaS goes mostly over the mirrors. Currently at about 85% of BaNaNaS downloads goes over the mirrors.
18:57<@Rubidium>so that would mean 400 GiB for this month could be seen as the "base-line"
18:58<@Rubidium>for the main server that is
18:58<TrueBrain>yesterday we have twice as much hits on the httpd, and in fact everything just doubled for a good portion of the day
18:58<@Rubidium>first six days did 275 GiB and today seems to be quite busy too
18:59<TrueBrain>so we finally produce more bandwidth than tt-forums ;)
18:59<TrueBrain>Party! :p
18:59<@Rubidium>of which ~200 GiB was pure HTTP traffic for the main server
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: while you are here, i have an annoying problem in the forum
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19:00<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: i turned off images in the forum preferences, but now when i click on an attachment, it doesn't have a mime type set
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>so it doesn't open in the image viewer
19:00<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: finally? We have more than 230 GiB a month for quite a while already; was 800 GiB over April 2009
19:01<TrueBrain>sssttttt
19:01<TrueBrain>:p
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21:31<PeterT>Why is the console command "companies" only available to a network server if it doesn't display valuable information anyway?
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22:59<Mazur>If I see one more city where my first station is ggoing to be called "[insert City name] Woods", I'm going to rename it Tiger.
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 08 00:00:57 2010