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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-09

---Logopened Fri Apr 09 00:00:58 2010
00:24<piro>And is there a way to update the route of all the buses associated with a particular depot?
00:27<piro>Ok, my airplanes keep disappearing :(
00:27<ccfreak2k>Holding Shift for any construction or terraforming job will tell you how much it will cost.
00:27<piro>ccfreak2k: Ok, thanks
00:27<piro>ccfreak2k: Do you have to click while holding shift?
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00:29<piro>Seriously though, I've built two airplanes, and both are gone now
00:29<piro>Do they blow up or something?
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01:05<piro>Apparently they did. There must be a way to update a bunch of vehicle's routes at once...
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01:17<Wizzleby>Anyone offhand know why the makefiles for openttd, grfcodec, and nforenum like to pass CFLAGS to CXX? Am I missing something there?
01:35<Wizzleby>I seriously need to stop asking questions about the build system at odd hours XD
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02:51<dih>TrueBrain: your Webtranslator
02:51<dih>how much work would it require to let it support gettext?
02:51<dih>in php code
02:56<@Rubidium>~1111.11 GiB in 8 days :)
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05:41<TrueBrain>sounds about right indeed
05:41<dih>hello TrueBrain
05:42<dih>can your translation baby work for php projects and gettext?
05:42<TrueBrain>[08:56] <Rubidium> ~1111.11 GiB in 8 days :)
05:42<TrueBrain>[11:41] <TrueBrain> sounds about right indeed
05:43<TrueBrain>not good? :p
05:43<TrueBrain>WT3.0 will never support gettext
05:43<TrueBrain>WT3.1 is stalled in development, and supports gettext
05:44<dih>define stalled?
05:44<dih>a kind of stalled and oh - it will never continue?
05:45<dih>or is there a small chance that stalled in this case actually means you would get around to doing some more work on it in the near future (e.g. next 3 months)
05:46<TrueBrain>lack of interest was number one
05:46<TrueBrain>lack of time was number two
05:46<TrueBrain>lack of motivtion was number three
05:46<TrueBrain>my 'define-the-odds' gives me a low value
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05:46<dih>is it open source?
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06:01<dih>ah - that noaddedsugar thing?
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06:02<@peter1138>hmm, 138GB in the past week
06:03<@peter1138>still, only 3.11 mbit/s 95th %ile
06:06<Progman>how good does the load balancer work?
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06:09<Mazur>Sorry about the bouncing in and out, but I'm trying to get the start-up right.
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06:18<Mazur>One more time.
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06:21<Mazur>That's better.
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06:46<dih>TrueBrain: what's the address of wt ?
06:46<TrueBrain>well, since Rubidium closed the VPS, there is none :p
06:47<TrueBrain>Progman: which LB?
06:49<Progman>of the mirror system
06:49<TrueBrain>yes, it does work; very well in fact
06:49<Progman>mentioned ~3 weeks ago
06:49<TrueBrain>even hold up under the slashdot load
06:53<TrueBrain>Progman: it does exactly what we intended it to do. When you are close to a mirror it redirects you to there, till a point that mirror gets overloaded, then it tries to find another mirror
06:53<dih>TrueBrain: any other way you could give me access to the source?
06:53<TrueBrain>also means US people stay at the US mirror for most of the time :)
06:54<TrueBrain>dih: not atm. Even more as I have no idea in what condition it is in. I simply wouldn't know
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06:56<dih>thanks ^^
06:57<dih>^ that was not meant negetavely
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08:03<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19591 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] AIRail::GetMaxSpeed(RailType) to get the speed limit of railtypes
08:04<TrueBrain>dih: way too busy atm to take care of such things :p
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08:05<dih>never mind TB ;-)
08:05<dih>i know what that is like ^^
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08:54<Ammler>Sali Belugas
08:54<@peter1138>hmm, i could do with some debian magic...
08:56<@peter1138>xfs decided, during an upgrade, that it didn't want to talk
08:56<Belugas>Ocus Pocus Octopus Debian Tobian !
08:56<@peter1138>dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 1: EOF after field name `'
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09:08<Belugas>lol... and it's not even correctly written !
09:09<FauxFaux>peter1138: apt-get clean && apt-get update?
09:10<@peter1138>nah, buggered filesystem
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09:19<@peter1138>hmm, now i need to force-reinstall a load of packages
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09:38<Phazorx>peter1138: xfs-check cant fix it?
09:38<Phazorx>or you cant boot at all?
09:39<@peter1138>it can't fix corrupt data though
09:39<Phazorx>oh... data corruption
09:39<@peter1138>journalled filesystems... what's the fucking point, eh?
09:39<Phazorx>well shouldnt that like never ever happen?
09:40<Phazorx>unless there is some HW malfunction and lost superblock along with journal tree
09:41<@peter1138>well, i assume it managed to get corrupted a while ago during some powercut, and but the problem ran unnoticed until just now
09:46*peter1138 also mumbles about lack of vsync when using two monitors :p
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10:23<Sacro>more OSS games should do this
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10:33<blathijs>Sacro: awesome :-)
10:35<@Rubidium>so, Sacro... when can you make a nice one for OpenTTD?
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10:39<TrueBrain>would be nice if you would do that Sacro ... would have been something good for 1.0.0 release ;)
10:40<TrueBrain>the music is just perfect for the trailer and game :)
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10:42<TrueBrain>also looks like a really good-created game :)
10:42<blathijs>Wouldn't that be well-created?
10:43<TrueBrain>tomato tomato
10:44*frosch123 wonders whether it contains a concrete-donkey
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10:57<Phazorx>queen actually made another great title specially for openttd intro
10:57<Phazorx>whoever can guess which song (and video specifically) i meant - gets 5 points
11:00<Sacro>errm guys
11:00<Ammler>what can I buy with those 5 points?
11:00<Sacro>OpenTTD has made it onto TheDailyWTF
11:00<Belugas>Under Pressure
11:00<Belugas>steam -> pressure...
11:01<Phazorx>Belugas: nope :)
11:01<Phazorx>Ammler: you can get a point cookie once you get to 100
11:02<SpComb>yay, featured
11:02<Phazorx>what;s with "buy" anyway... i know swiss are all about banks... but not everything in the world revolves around money
11:02<SpComb>I was about to say the same as Sacro
11:02<Phazorx>take OPENttd for example
11:02<Ammler>Sacro: never link to image directly :-P
11:03<Belugas>at work????? buwhahahahahahah!!!!
11:03<Sacro>The OpenTTD error comes from a truly awesome game - Transport Tycoon Deluxe. '
11:03<Sacro>the OpenTTD error comes from OpenTTD
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11:04<Phazorx>Belugas: i meant Queen - Breakthrough
11:04<Phazorx>imho it's really fitting by many counts
11:05<Belugas>i would not say that, personnaly...
11:05<Ammler>Sacro: the link to the article would be nice
11:05<Belugas>just pointing to the song only, note...
11:05<SpComb>or rather,
11:06<Phazorx>Belugas: considering 1.0.0 i'd say lyrics fits too :)
11:09<Belugas>well... for a user pint of view, i'd say so. but.. as a whole, it's more an evolution than a breakthrough...
11:09<Belugas>it's a break through the 0.x scheme
11:09<Belugas>but... apart from that... it's really an evolution
11:09<Belugas>my point of view
11:09<Belugas>not the one of the current dev team
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11:10<Belugas>not now :S
11:10<Belugas>boooo :(
11:11<@peter1138>that's not as exciting
11:11<Ammler>in desert
11:13<Belugas>water... droping slowly from a nipple, shot in front of a black backdrop, ISO 100, with a 70-200mm L 2.8...
11:13<Belugas>yeah, water can be exciting!
11:13<@peter1138>Belugas can make words pornographic :)
11:14<Phazorx>Belugas: are you sure you are at work?
11:14<Belugas>yup, in body at least...
11:14<Belugas>i need evasion
11:14<Belugas>big time
11:14<Phazorx>sounds like you need to cut your friday short and swing by a bar
11:19<Belugas>there are naked girls with water dripping from the nipples in bars?
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11:24<aber>reminds me of "Manneken Pis"
11:26<Belugas>who knows about the "Janneken Pis" ?
11:27<Belugas>or somehting... not sure about the real spelling
11:28<ddfreyne>dirty belgians
11:28<Belugas>watch out... i'm one!
11:29<ddfreyne>so am I ;)
11:29<Belugas>ho? well... cool!
11:45<DJNekkid>George3: you got a PM on tt-forums (if you are ECS-George)
11:45-!-George3 is now known as George
11:46<George>thank you
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11:52<George>can you save in xls, excael can't open ods
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12:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19592 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix: don't do the desync debug savegames mid-StateGameLoop; they're increadibly useless (or hard to load correctly) in that case
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12:07<DJNekkid>George: should be able... hehe
12:07<DJNekkid>but sure...
12:08<DJNekkid>.ods is 700kb, .xls is 3mb! :D
12:09<DJNekkid>there you go George... sent
12:13<doclzor\afk>any changes to change resolution? everything is like far away from me even tho im max zoomed in
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12:15<doclzor\afk>any ways *
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12:22<welshdragon>doclzor\afk: yes, change it under 'settings'
12:23<doclzor\afk>hmm didn find it.. i must be blind =)
12:24<doclzor\afk>found =)
12:24<Jupix>doclzor\afk: install extra-zoom :P
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12:31<Phazorx>DJNekkid .ods is 700kb, .xls is 3mb!... wow... DJNekkid discovers power of gzip?
12:32<@peter1138>.csv is 1.5KB?
12:34<Phazorx>csv will be larger than both most likely
12:34<Lakie>Depends on formatting?
12:34<Phazorx>OO docs are just gziped
12:35<Phazorx>Lakie: in case of csv formating is kinda standardized
12:35<FauxFaux>Much like xlsx.
12:35<Lakie>Spreedsheets usually contain formatting information, layout etc. CSV is usually just raw data.
12:36<Phazorx>Lakie: formatted data is easily compressable due to patterns
12:36<Lakie>Quite likely,
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12:43<Ammler>Phazorx: sadly OO doesn't support unzipped docs
12:43<Ammler>so you could add those to a vcs
12:44<+glx>smart vcs can handle them
12:44<Ammler>glx: you mean with hooks compress/uncompress?
12:46<Ammler>dunno, if that is "smart"
12:46<Ammler>smarter would be if oo could read it those right away, it needs decompressing anyway
12:48<Ammler>save as "folder" :-)
12:48<+glx>or they can use oodiff
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12:51<Ammler>also, iirc oo docs are zipped, not gzipped
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, they are
12:51<DJNekkid>practically not formatted, that doc
12:53<DJNekkid>about 1350*40 cells
12:53<DJNekkid>with about 35*1350 contain a formula
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13:09<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19593 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: improve loading/executing the desync logs
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13:31<DJNekkid>now this is most likely a stupid question, but why do i need gfx/sfx files to run a server?
13:31<Ammler>e.g. for map generation
13:32<Ammler>you can use nosound for sfx
13:32<@Rubidium>sfx isn't needed on a server
13:32<@Rubidium>gfx is needed because it contains a bit more than only graphics
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13:33<Ammler>Rubidium: if you would use the new generator, it would go without?
13:34<DJNekkid>Rubidium: okidoki... :D:D
13:34<@Rubidium>Ammler: there's still quite a lot depending on data from the graphics files
13:34<@Rubidium>e.g. constructing windows
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13:44<lennard>aww, you guys made thedailywtf
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19594 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt portuguese.txt turkish.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: turkish - 16 changes by niw3
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13:49<Ammler>lennard: isn't it possible the "wtf" belongs to the poster?
13:50<Ammler>it isn't reproduceable...
13:51<@Rubidium>I'm wondering what's so "wtf" about it
13:51<Ammler>the list about missing grfs
13:52<@Rubidium>but the line above it says that if nothing misses he should file a bug report
13:52<@Rubidium>so the wtf is why the fuck didn't he file the bug report?
13:53<Ammler>yeah, the wtf belongs to the poster :-)
13:53<frosch123>what was the character limit for the messagebox again?
13:54<@Rubidium>much more than that :)
13:54<@Rubidium>although for the sake of making it look better we might use our custom (help) 'box' for those messages
13:55<Ammler>hmm, what if his screen has that size
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14:06<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the text is way too cryptic for a useful error message
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14:10<frosch123>"OTTD crashed. That is your fault. Install following files with appropiate versions:" <- better?
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>at least that is way shorter :)
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14:18<qFox>is there an overview to the keyboard bindings somewhere?
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14:19<qFox>i'm there. searching for various related keywords did not turn up a result or too many bogus results
14:20<frosch123>try "Hotkeys"
14:20<qFox>oh wait
14:20<frosch123>and "Hidden features"
14:21<qFox>ahhhh delete. not the most obvious key on a laptop :p
14:22<qFox>i dont suppose there's a mass sell option?
14:22<frosch123>the third icon in the depot?
14:23<Phazorx>there is sell everything in depot button
14:23<Phazorx>but there is no shortcut
14:23<frosch123>or do you mean "close this company NOW" ?
14:23<qFox>yeah i'd like to sell about a 1000 cars spread over about 100 depots :p
14:24<qFox>i mean, there's an option to send them to the depot. why not sell them
14:24<qFox>seems trivial after that (but thats an easy assumption, i know :)
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14:28<Ammler>depoted vehicles shouldn't cost money or cpu, so just leave those :-)
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14:30<qFox>yeah but i want to remove everything i have :)
14:32<Ammler>load the save in scenario editor
14:34<Yexo>qFox: start all vehicles, then remove all except for one depot, then send them all to a depot
14:34<qFox>hm. is it possible to filter what to delete?
14:34<qFox>say, demolish only depots..
14:35<qFox>i mean, i know its possible for road/rail
14:35<qFox>ahw. guess not
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14:35<qFox>see, i've taken over a few ai's
14:35<qFox>and the number of depots is dramatic
14:35<qFox>and i can wipe the whole landscape
14:35<qFox>but that will make it impossible for most vehicles to get anywhere :p
14:36<qFox>so i'm kind of out of options
14:36<qFox>i guess i'll leave the depots and cars
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14:41<Ammler>try scenario editor?
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15:34<qFox>niet als die kortgesloten is
15:35<ddfreyne>that would indeed be bad news for your electric railways
15:36<bryjen>hrm. setting NARS grf parameter 1 to 2 used to remove the regearing "cargo" from the locomotives. now it appears to remove the locomotives the have that cargo.
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15:36*bryjen wonders when that changed
15:43<qFox>ddfreyne> as it turns out, not so good for computers either..
15:43<ddfreyne>qFox: yeah :)
15:59<qFox>so is there code in place that tries to make towns/cities not build below the sea level?
15:59<qFox>because i'm observing suspicious behavior that looks like that :p
16:00<OwenS>qFox, OpenTTD doesn't have a level below sea level
16:02<qFox>sea level itself then
16:02<qFox>i mean
16:03<qFox>i used to clear water areas around towns, grow them into cities on the lowest level and ... break the dam
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16:03<qFox>but the towns seemed to build higher up
16:03<qFox>thwarting my plans
16:06<Devroush>I never knew you could play openttd the evil way
16:06<Devroush>guess you came up with something
16:09<fjb>There are some evil things you can do like flooding or running over road vehicles with trains.
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16:15<qFox>oh i actually assumed the latter was a common tactic
16:15<qFox>its most amusing to hold back 20 cars for some AI with a train
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16:15<qFox>build some monorail crossings
16:15<qFox>and let trains circle around it at highspeed
16:15<qFox>slewing one car after the other
16:15<qFox>takes some time to set up, but ohhhh the joy :p
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16:17<qFox>or building a line of traffic right in front of a competitors loading area, effectively blocking access while your guy is waiting to fully load some cargo that doesnt exist
16:18<qFox>building some roads for shortcuts near a competitors route so they'll take your road instead, then cutting it off at certain points when some cars are on it
16:18<qFox>dead fish
16:18<qFox>and the ai usually never recovers
16:19<qFox>ahwell. nuf ways to take it out on the enemy
16:24<fjb>Be careful if your competitor is not an ai. He may strike back once you started the war.
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16:36<fjb>Hm, some AIs should really learn how to upgrade vehicles. 125 years old buses are cute as long as they are not driving in ahead of you.
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16:52<DJNekkid>does anyone here like rap? im trying to figure out what tune im thinking of, but i cant really find it
16:52<nighthawk_c_m>A question, I told my train groups to replace the engines, some trains did it automatically while running their tours, some dont .. anyone have an idea why?
16:52<DJNekkid>it might be snoop dogg...
16:52<DJNekkid>it goes something like "i was na na na na on the dizzle, with the so me th in g on the zizzle"
16:53<Alberth>those some trains have a depot order and other 'dont's have not?
16:53<nighthawk_c_m>No train has a depot order
16:54<Alberth>do you have servicing switched on?
16:54<nighthawk_c_m>I had all running on tour and just chose the new engine, 90% went into a depot along their tour to refit, the rest just doesnt
16:54<fjb>Or something prevents them from upgrading to the chosen machine. Are you using a train GRF?
16:54<nighthawk_c_m>no, servicing is switched off
16:54<nighthawk_c_m>DB XL
16:54<Alberth>so they never need to visit a depot, or they cannot find one.
16:55<fjb>When servicing is switched off they have no need to go to a depot and will not upgrade.
16:55<nighthawk_c_m>well, actually only 1 train seems not to refit, and he is running on his regular tour past a depot
16:55<nighthawk_c_m>well all the others did without explicit order
16:55<nighthawk_c_m>so that seems to have changed to past releases
16:56<Alberth>trains look for a depot only some of the time
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>especially path reservations can make a train not find a depot
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>because once reserved past a depot, it cannot make a detour anymore
16:57<nighthawk_c_m>no path reservation, just regular signals
16:59<fjb>Or the wrong type of replacement engine (passenger/cargo).
16:59<nighthawk_c_m>out of 16 oil trains 13 replaced themselves, 3 I need to do manually
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17:23<Belugas>bye all
17:25<frosch123>bye belugas
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17:44<OwenS>Jeez... Theres an Eve Online player... Who spent $10k real world money on the game O_o
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17:50<dih>OwenS: what he do? buy it?
17:51<SpComb>I'm sure $10k would get you quite far in EVE
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17:54<OwenS>dih, He bought "time cards". Which he then proceeded to sell (crashing the market) for in game money
17:54<OwenS>With which he bought spacecraft
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18:05<fjb>Mixing game money and real money is a bad idea.
18:07<Coco-Banana-Man>only if you turn Inflation on :D
18:08<frosch123>fjb: depends on the transfer direction :p
18:09<fjb>Ok, a few people really have fun.
18:10<Phazorx>microtransactions are always fail actually
18:11<Phazorx>they usualy a sign of marketing department getting more power than creative/developers
18:11<Phazorx>which happens in decline of a game
18:12<Phazorx>sad, eve was one of successful examples of modern game dev
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>... every game declines
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>... even openttd will decline at some point
18:16<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: first person killing "games" have been there for millenia
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that's a "genre", not a "game" :)
18:17<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so stab-a-person isn't a game? :(
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>not one single game, but many different games
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18:26<fjb>Hm, I got mogul status. Could have done more, but the game was fun.
18:29<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19595 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Doc: mention the addition of AIRail::GetMaxSpeed in the AI changelog
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19:24<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the deveolopment forum gets somewhat boring...
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>there are basically three active patches on there
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19:24<Eddi|zuHause>cargodist is somewhat "stuck"
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>autoseparation does not do what i want
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>and daylength is unlikely to ever go anywhere, especially when each new attempt just ignores every previous attempt and goes "i fix the balance issues as they come up"
19:26<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause, ProgSigs is also active. As active as it can be while this slow ass company is not delivering my HDD...
19:30*OwenS ponders why rTorrent doing a hash check on files on his media drives would cause his system to lag so badly (Considering nothing should be accessing said drives except rTorrent and the music player)
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19:33<piro>So if I have an airport next to a city, and it says it accepts mail, do I have to have a truck transport mail from the airport to the city for it to count?
19:34<OwenS>If a station accepts something, you can drop it there and its done
19:34<piro>Ok cool
19:36<piro>Let's say I have a city that's close to a body of water but not close enough to say that it accepts anything. Is there any way to transport stuff to the dock via bus/truck?
19:36<piro>And actually have it mean something?
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20:20<aber>you guys have not so much luck with mac developers...
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20:23<Eddi|zuHause>piro: try readin up on transfer orders. but generally you can only transfer in one direction, so its use is diminished for bi-directional cargos like passenger, mail or valuables. they are better suited for single direction cargos.
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20:24<Eddi|zuHause>so you can either transport passengers from the town to the dock/airport, or from the dock/airport to the town, but not both
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21:36<piro>What is the point of making longer train stations?
21:37<fjb>Handling longer trains.
21:38<De_Ghosty>if ur train is longer than platform the train that doesn't fit is delayed in loading/unloading
21:39<DJNekkid>if that were a q'
21:45<piro>This game is so awesome
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22:07<Scriptdaemon>Does OpenTTD save anything to the registry in Windows (specifically, the .zip download)?
22:08<Scriptdaemon>And if not, is there a way (e.g. command line argument) to change the settings directory?
22:08<+glx>it's explained in the readme
22:13<Scriptdaemon>Alright, thank you. I'm developing a package for OpenTTD. :)
22:17<CIA-6>OpenTTD: glx * r19596 /trunk/src/network/network_internal.h: -Fix (r19593): dedicated server always fast forwarding if compiled without DEBUG_DUMP_COMMANDS
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23:05<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... my new (<1 year) mouse's mouse wheel is giving up...
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23:11<Eddi|zuHause>and it wasn't the cheapest mouse either...
23:13<piro>So there is pretty much no way to easily replace lots of old vehicles if there's no better vehicles being offered, correct?
23:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there is
23:14<De_Ghosty>auto replace in options
23:14<Eddi|zuHause>in advanced settings->vehicles->replace vehicles when they are old
23:15<Eddi|zuHause>the english language is missing the equivalent of the german word "doch"...
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23:37<SirSquidness>oh no.
23:38<piro>Eddi|zuHause: Bad ass. Thank you
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23:40<piro>Also, if I have a bunch of vehicles going to a particular station, can I change the route of a bunch of them at once?
23:40<piro>Without doing order sharing
23:40<piro>(Because I don't like the permanence of order sharing)
23:42<Eddi|zuHause>either all or nothing
23:44<NevEragon>hrm, i got openttd a few days ago and ive been playing with it, but for the life of me, i cant get teh convert rail button to work... i just get "no suitable railroad track" every time. Is anyone familiar with this problem?
23:49<Eddi|zuHause>NevEragon: you need to select a different railtype than you already have built
23:50<NevEragon>oh hey, i didnt notice i should hold down the rail button, thanks
23:50<NevEragon>thnx Eddi|zuHause
23:50<Eddi|zuHause>click and hold the rail button in the main toolbar
---Logclosed Sat Apr 10 00:00:37 2010