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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-10

---Logopened Sat Apr 10 00:00:37 2010
---Daychanged Sat Apr 10 2010
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00:04<piro>Is there a way to show nearest depot? I can't find a depot I placed O_o
00:05<Eddi|zuHause>use ctrl+x
00:07<piro>What are depots considered? Stations?
00:07<piro>Er, buildables. Sorry
00:08<Eddi|zuHause>"stations" means all player property, including depots
00:19<piro>Ok, next question :) If a station at a city is producing crap tons of passengers, does it help to create a second station? As in, does it split the load?
00:20<__ln__>good morning
00:39<yuriks_>do entry-exit pairs cross regular block signals?
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00:40<NCommander>Hey all
00:47*NCommander is starting to learn to play OpenTTD, and is feeling a bit overwhelmed
00:57<piro>NCommander: Haha. Yes
00:58<NCommander>piro: I'm also having issues with signals, although I think I'm finally getting it (although I'm too scared to turn on an AI player :-/)
01:00*NCommander hasn't even turned on any NewGFXs or figure dout how add them :-/
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01:05<NCommander>Stupid quesiton, but if I want to build a second track to a station, why is it look different if I put two side by side versus build it initially with two (or more), am I doing something wrong?
01:09<yuriks_>nah, it just doesn't update
01:09<yuriks_>it's for all intents and purposes the same thing though, except graphically
01:09<NCommander>ah, thanks
01:10*NCommander is now trying to figure out how to use time tables effectively
01:10<yuriks_>I havn't even looked at them yet =P
01:10<yuriks_>my lovely station design ^_^
01:14*NCommander is making progress at learning how to build decent stations and hubs I think
01:14<NCommander>yuriks_: OOOH, thats nice!
01:16*NCommander is going to see if he can get his spur line trains being profitable in both directions by towing some empty steel cars
01:16<De_Ghosty>that thing is
01:18<NCommander>De_Ghosty: well, I want to bring raw supplies up, and then have it bring back any steel from the foundary thats available
01:18<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: problem? XD
01:18<NCommander>Transport it to my hub station, and then have another train from there take it and bring it over to the factory
01:18<yuriks_>hub stations.... that sounds like a nice idea
01:18<yuriks_>currently I'm just hauling everything directly
01:18<NCommander>yuriks_: I'll shot you what mine looks like if I can get this to work
01:18*NCommander has bad luck with signals
01:19<yuriks_>it took me a while to get the hang of then
01:19<De_Ghosty>transfer is slowwwwwwwwwww
01:19<De_Ghosty>yuriks_ there is a type of signal
01:19<De_Ghosty>with 2 lights
01:19<NCommander>De_Ghosty: not if the train is already running between those stations. This way instead of having one run be completely unprofitable, it can work in both
01:19<yuriks_>and my trains still deadlock sometimes, they stopped since I gave up on combined Terminus-RoRo though =P
01:19<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: the path ones?
01:20<NCommander>The hills suck though, I need two engines on each train to get them moving quickly
01:20<yuriks_>what about them? for my station?
01:20<yuriks_>NCommander: realistic acceleration path ftw <_< >_>
01:20<De_Ghosty>they are lazy man signals
01:20<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: indeed they are =)
01:20<NCommander>yuriks_: ?
01:20<NCommander>Where do I turn that on?
01:20<yuriks_>advanced options
01:21<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: you're suggesting replacing all signals on my stations with path ones?
01:21<NCommander>yuriks_: do I need a NewGFX for that?
01:22<yuriks_>you don't need newgfx for anything afaik =-P
01:22*yuriks_ doesn't use it
01:23<yuriks_>hmmm, why is this water train always bringing up a net loss
01:23<NCommander>yuriks_: I don't see to have it in my openttd
01:23<yuriks_>NCommander: you do
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01:24<De_Ghosty>no your fine
01:25<De_Ghosty>they wait too long too slow?
01:25<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: hmm, yeah, they wait quite a bit I think, water supply is just 40k a month
01:26<yuriks_>but I'm trying to bring that up by having a train always idle there loading
01:26*NCommander has some junctions he has to optimize
01:26<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: it also travels very far =P
01:28<yuriks_>this is my horrible home-made junction =P
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01:29<yuriks_>also, is that return on the back thing I did on the top-most stations a horribly bad idea or is it fine?
01:32<nighthawk_c_m>design can be simplified with faster access to the Brunwell North, but that junction will cause trouble with faster trains
01:32<NCommander>ok that's working
01:32*NCommander needs to get his signals working
01:32<yuriks_>nighthawk_c_m: yeah, it was kind of bolted on
01:33<nighthawk_c_m>For thr Station try a Terminus with PBS
01:33<nighthawk_c_m>its much smaller
01:33<De_Ghosty>junctions are good if u have lots of train
01:33<De_Ghosty>also fast and doesn't jam
01:34<yuriks_>nighthawk_c_m: like I have on Brunnwell? (that's a slanted terminus)
01:34<NCommander>I'm guessing I'm not using combo signals correctly
01:34<De_Ghosty>tips : don't use such short turns it slows the trains down
01:34<De_Ghosty>you two should play together :D
01:34<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: yeah, comes from the bolted on part ;P
01:35<yuriks_>I was gonna use that, but though maybe that would be faster
01:35<nighthawk_c_m>Oh that is pretty fast usually
01:35<piro>Jesus. I can't keep up with the demand!
01:35<piro>And towns are getting really angry at me :(
01:35<nighthawk_c_m>I think it wont be slower
01:36<nighthawk_c_m>For curves I had something .. gimme a sec
01:36<yuriks_>any pointers on doing a junction to feed both stations?
01:36<yuriks_>I need to redesign that whole mess, anyway
01:36<NCommander> what type of signals are those?
01:37<yuriks_>looks like vanilla block signals
01:37<nighthawk_c_m>well ... hmmmmm
01:37*NCommander is trying to get his station to work right, but I'm guessing combo is not the right type of signal
01:38<yuriks_>nighthawk_c_m: do two of those in a row?
01:38<yuriks_>maybe I could do some kind of modified cloverleaf with exits/entrances at the loops
01:39<nighthawk_c_m>Maybe, I never used a cloverleaf, I try to get my LL_RR Mainline with three sidelines to work
01:39<piro>This is ridiculous. What the heck are you supposed to do when a town needs a bunch of crap but won't let you build anything?
01:39<yuriks_>piro: plant trees, of course :)
01:39<nighthawk_c_m>weait, plant trees, sleep with the mayors wife and so on
01:40<yuriks_>how do I bribe towns, anyway? is it the 'rebuild roads' option?
01:41<yuriks_>"LL_RR Mainline with three sidelines" what would that be?
01:41<nighthawk_c_m>yeah, but prtetty expensive, dont do it unless you have enough cashflow
01:41<yuriks_>two roads for each direction?
01:41<nighthawk_c_m>no, gimme a sec, anyone have a good picture uploading place?
01:41<NCommander>yuriks_: I don't get how to do it properly if the station is two tracks and an end point
01:41<yuriks_>nighthawk_c_m: hmm, tinypic?
01:42<yuriks_>NCommander: two tracks along the entire railway?
01:42<NCommander>yuriks_: its two tracks feeding into a single station that can cross over each other but currently don't overlap
01:43<yuriks_>NCommander: this?
01:43<NCommander>No idea how to do that prpoerly
01:43<yuriks_>well, the solution is in the screenshot ;P
01:43<yuriks_>(the lower one)
01:43*NCommander fels retard
01:44<NCommander>*retarded >.<;
01:44<yuriks_>those are path signals
01:44<NCommander>yuriks_: ugh, but they are still all read ...
01:44<yuriks_>how come I'm not transporting 100% of the production on this water supply if I always have a train loading there at all times? -_-
01:45<yuriks_>NCommander: path signals are always red until a train approaches it
01:45<NCommander>yuriks_: oh
01:45*NCommander thinks he finally has a grip on signals!
01:45<nighthawk_c_m>100% is basically impossible unless you have a high end high speed engine etc
01:46<NCommander>that seems to work now
01:46<nighthawk_c_m>btw that screenshot shows mainline with a sideline junction, pretty basic, I just learned how to do them
01:46<yuriks_>nighthawk_c_m: that seems to take a lot of space =P, tidy, though
01:46<yuriks_>well, 'tidy', bridges and tunnels everywhere
01:47<nighthawk_c_m>well, it is designed for a trainlength of 5 tiles (10 wagons including locos) so they dont slow down or jam
01:48<yuriks_>oh, transport rate falls if you take too long to transport?
01:48<nighthawk_c_m>Hmmhmm.. yepp, that too
01:48<yuriks_>ah, that could be the reason then
01:49<yuriks_>those water tanks take very long trips =P
01:50<yuriks_>nighthawk_c_m: can trains do returns with that setup?
01:50<nighthawk_c_m>what do you mean with returns
01:50<yuriks_>reverse direction (changing to the correct track)
01:51*NCommander has transfers working
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01:52<NCommander>my path signals aren't working properly :-/
01:53<nighthawkcm>maybe plain old entry - exit - combo signals work better?
01:54<nighthawkcm>i find them easier in terms of the logic of larger networks, dont like pbs there too much
01:56<NCommander>Ah, got it
01:56<piro>So if you create more bus stations, you give yourself more passengers to take care of?
01:56<NCommander>that worked
01:56*NCommander isn't sure how cost effective this route is, but that was awesome to watch
01:56<nighthawkcm>hehe, eyecandy sometrimes totally wins over usefulness / effectiveness of a network
01:58<nighthawkcm>if the spreads of the stations dont overlap too much yes - it increases the amount of passengers per station
01:58<nighthawkcm>i mean the amount in general increases
01:58<nighthawkcm>on the single stations it depends how much there is in their coverage
01:59<piro>Fuck. These stations are getting overloaded. How do you cope with it besides throwing more buses at them?
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02:04<nighthawkcm>you cant except to change toa method of transportation with much higher loading capacities
02:04<nighthawkcm>meaning trains / airplanes
02:05<piro>I'm not sure I follow you
02:05<nighthawkcm>well, you have a passenger bus stop that accumulates more passengers then your busses can haul, right?
02:06<yuriks_>speaking of eye candy, I just burned a bunch of money doing this:
02:07<piro>yuriks_: Yes.
02:07<nighthawkcm>cute, maybe move further west (left to increase the size of the loops for train speed?
02:08<piro>nighthawkcm: So what should I do?
02:09<yuriks_>yay, I have one million pounds =P
02:09<nighthawkcm>Well, you cant do much usually except more busses, if the bus station is at the edge of a town/ city you can try to use trains to transport a larger amount of passengers, but besides that not really anything
02:11*piro has $40 mil :D
02:12<nighthawkcm>194 fastly shrinking due to many trains being purchased
02:12<yuriks_>what year? I'm on 1970 still =P
02:13<NCommander>transfers work amazingly well
02:13*NCommander has everything feeding into a hub station
02:14<piro>This is my first game. I am quite overwhelmed
02:14<yuriks_>I always start a new one, I need to stop doing that =P
02:15<nighthawkcm>1986 - 14 Planes 41 trains
02:15*yuriks_ has 13 trains
02:15<nighthawkcm>I hope to reach 250 Trains in this network .. hopefully it works out
02:18<yuriks_>what do the circle colors in the train overview window mean?
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02:20<nighthawkcm>judges the income I think, green is very good, yellow is ok, grey is hard limit and red means you loose money
02:20<yuriks_>hmm, makes sense
02:21<yuriks_>they're all on green ^_^
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02:26*NCommander is incredibly happy with his performance
02:26<NCommander>Is there a good way to take a screen shot so people can see how much crack I am on?
02:26<nighthawkcm>cmd + s
02:27<nighthawkcm>strg + s on my keyboard
02:28<NCommander> - yuriks_
02:28<NCommander>so how much crack am I on for this design?
02:28*NCommander notes that everything is actually profitable, although its not 100% clear
02:30<yuriks_>two-way rails! yuck!
02:30<nighthawkcm>nice feeder service ^^
02:31<NCommander>yuriks_: it works extremely well
02:31<NCommander>nighthawkcm: thanks, this is my first night playing
02:32<nighthawkcm>welcome to the most addictive transport game .. I played Transport Tycoon back in the days when they first released it anno domini before the pope was born ^^
02:32<NCommander>nighthawkcm: I'm thinking of setting up truck service to funnel livestock into the factory, as those farms aren't making enough to warrent running additional train cars
02:33<NCommander>yuriks_: what's wrong with two way track? If I made this one way, I'd have to run four tracks for six trains
02:33<nighthawkcm>careful, if you service them well they might increase production, usually its suggested to use trucks on short routes, but thats if you aim for efficiency, otherwise its cool, and chaotic ^
02:34<yuriks_>NCommander: was talking about your mainline
02:34<NCommander>nighthawkcm: indeed. I thought about using trucks to feed from the Mines to the factory, but it didn't seem too much
02:34<yuriks_>which seems to be two way
02:34<NCommander>yuriks_: I know
02:34<NCommander>yuriks_: and it is,
02:35<yuriks_>you don't need more tracks, you just put more trains on the same track
02:35<NCommander>yuriks_: its a matter of where trains are going
02:35<NCommander>yuriks_: right now, I cna get better performance using both tracks as iron moves a LOT faster than coal
02:35<NCommander>since its feeding
02:36<NCommander>so I can run two trains the same direction, and then have the coal trains run in parallel with each other
02:37<yuriks_>you can run two trains in the same direction with one way tracks =P
02:40<NCommander>yuriks_: I suppose, maybe time to change things up
02:42*NCommander should start replacing his trains
02:45<NCommander>time to make the mainline one way
02:47<piro>Thank god for autoreplacing of old vehicles. I think I'd die if I had to manually replace them all
02:51*NCommander just crashed two trains
02:51<NCommander>Oh well
02:51<NCommander>I think I finally have the hang of this
02:51<yuriks_>it happens
02:51<NCommander>although I'm sitll no where near perfect
02:51<NCommander>anyone up for some multiplayer? (if they don't mind playing with a noob)
02:53<yuriks_>I probably over-engineered this
02:53<NCommander>yuriks_: probably
02:55<yuriks_>NCommander: I would play, but I'm gonna stop playing now for the night XD
02:55<NCommander>yuriks_: no need to stop ;-)
02:55<yuriks_>yes there is, 4am
02:56<yuriks_>ugh, why does this city randomly starts and stops accepting food
03:07<piro>You can crash trains?
03:07<nighthawkcm>yes you can
03:10<De_Ghosty>yuriks_ cuz ur station is on the edge of town
03:10<De_Ghosty>use the question mark and click on a building
03:10<De_Ghosty>it tell you what it accepts
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03:11<De_Ghosty>when build changes sometimes it change to accept goods
03:11<yuriks_>yeah, I'm on the edge of the map
03:11<De_Ghosty>or other stuff
03:11<yuriks_>of the town*
03:11<yuriks_>any way around that? =|
03:11<De_Ghosty>yea make a bigger station
03:11<De_Ghosty>so you touch more of the city
03:12<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: there are tracks between the station and the city =P
03:12<De_Ghosty>is ur game on network?
03:13<yuriks_>I'm on network mode, but playing solo xD
03:13<De_Ghosty>why don't u just turn your station sideways?
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03:13<yuriks_>De_Ghosty: tracking get's tricky, I think
03:14<yuriks_>hmm, I think I'll do that
03:17<Jupix>long term solution might be to start growing that town and concentrate on other parts of the network while it does that :P
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03:18<yuriks_>kind of hard to grow the town if I can't reliably deliver food to it
03:18<Jupix>does it need food to grow? it's outside the desert
03:18<De_Ghosty>fyi only edge of town accept food i think city accept goods and something
03:19<De_Ghosty>it need water on desert
03:21<Jupix>Any town where the centre square is in the desert requires food and water to grow. Non-desert towns require neither food nor water.
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03:21<Jupix>i'd run a few buses there and see if starts to grow
03:21<andythenorth>the town window tells you if food + water are required
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03:22<De_Ghosty>o rly?
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03:24<yuriks_>well, heh, turns out it didn't need food nor water to grow
03:24<yuriks_>so, passenger trains?
03:25<yuriks_>or do you mean local buses?
03:26<Jupix>local buses
03:27<yuriks_>is it a good idea to set buses to fully load?
03:27<Jupix>passenger trains might also work but might also disrupt the cargo station
03:28<Jupix>i'm not sure which is better but personally i often build 2 bus stops and 2 or 4 buses with one full load stop per bus, with each bus full loading a different stop
03:28<NCommander>when playing with competeriors, they don't start at the beginning?
03:29<Jupix>that should work :P
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03:31<Jupix>might be a good idea to terraform the fruit plantation / farm side of the train station so that you can tunnel underneath it and expand the city there
03:32<Jupix>that's just splitting hairs, though :P
03:32<yuriks_>what do you mean with terraform, though?
03:33<nighthawkcm>change the landscape round it to your needs
03:33<Jupix>lower the land next to the station so that you can demolish one of the buildings on the other side of the hill and build a tunnel
03:34<Jupix>then you can build roads in the free space and the city will possibly grow there
03:34<Jupix>and the train station will become encapsulated in the city and receive a lot of passengers
03:34<yuriks_>oh, you mean making a road tunnel?
03:34<yuriks_>ah, will do
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03:37<yuriks_>like this?
03:42<yuriks_>I didn't know buses helped this much =(
03:42<yuriks_>town already has 1k people
03:44<Jupix>is it starting to grow to the SE?
03:44<yuriks_>wait, I read it wrong
03:44<yuriks_>it has 700 =P
03:45<Jupix>i was thinking that was pretty fast :D
03:45<yuriks_>so I have 2.5mil and have no idea what to do with the money
03:45<yuriks_>apart from more silly mega projects
03:49<yuriks_>hmm, can you see what's wrong with my signaling?
03:49<yuriks_>the trains exit fine via the bottom tunnel if the left section of the station isn't full
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03:51*NCommander is a very successful trucking and rail company going
03:51<Jupix>yuriks_: you probably need an entry signal at the west side tunnel entrance
03:52<Jupix>i mean east side
03:53<Jupix>the east section exit signals are showing red because the fruit train is stopped within that block
03:53<Jupix>unless this is some PBS thing that i can't decipher
03:53<yuriks_>the fruit train got stuck there
03:54<yuriks_>because none of the trains would exit the station
03:54<yuriks_>I tried to make one ignore the signals a few times and it got itself there somehow
03:55<Jupix>yeah, try removing the piece of track that connects the right side tunnel to the loop at the bottom and see if the trains start leaving the station
03:55<Jupix>if they do then you need to add signals
03:55<yuriks_>ok, I did some manual plumbing and cleaned up the trains
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04:02<Jupix>anyway, gonna go put summer tires on my car
04:04*NCommander finds the AI isn't doing anything useful
04:07<NCommander>both AIs just got closed by creditors
04:10<yuriks_>my new station positioning isn't supplying maize
04:10<yuriks_>and I hadn't noticed
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04:18<yuriks_>lol, I cheated
04:18<yuriks_>stuck out a bunch of 1x1 stations to reach the farm
04:20<yuriks_>ugh, trains are stuck again
04:21<yuriks_>oh, problem solved
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05:04<Alberth>good morning andy
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06:20<Ammler>good day :-)
06:20<Ammler>how does someone debug seg faults?
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06:25<@peter1138>either: run it in a debugger, or run it in a debugger with the core dump
06:31<Ammler>hmm, for start I could enable asserts?
06:32<Ammler>it needs days until it segfaults
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06:34<frosch123>just type "ulimit -c unlimited" in the console before starting the server to enable core file generation
06:35<frosch123>or put it directly in .bashrc or similiar :)
06:36<frosch123>except you likely do not want corefiles on a webserver which regulary needs to restart services :p
06:42<OwenS>frosch123, you mean, if you run lightHTTPd? :p
06:43<frosch123>no idea, iirc it was best to not remeber anything about it, or so
06:55<@Rubidium>Ammler: by any chance, do you still have the autosave from the previous month and the desync logs?
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06:56<Ammler>Rubidium: before this seg fault?
06:56<@Rubidium>yes, from before the segfault
06:56<@Rubidium>one from after it is kinda useless, ain't it?
06:57<@Rubidium>maybe SmatZ can, with his assembler knowledge, determing where in that function it crashed if he has the binary
06:57<Ammler>:-( forgot to enable debug desync again
06:58<Ammler>and disabled autosave because of the desync saves, so no
06:58<Ammler>except the crash.sav
06:59<OwenS>Rubidium: On systems which support it, you should keep -g in and separate the debugging information out using the GNU debug link feature
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07:03<planetmaker>a very good day to you :-)
07:04<planetmaker>Ammler: do I get it right, we have a crashing PS?!
07:04<Ammler>stable was it
07:05<Ammler>ps is quite stable
07:05<planetmaker>oh. crash on stable?!
07:05<Ammler>yeah, we should enable asserts
07:05<@Rubidium> PNG: 1.2.15beta5
07:06<@Rubidium>that's 2007...
07:06<@Rubidium>what about all the CVEs that have been fixed since then?
07:06<Ammler>currentyl nightly is running with fast forward :-D
07:07<Ammler>how do I slower that?
07:07<planetmaker>1.4.1 is current...
07:07<@Rubidium>or 1.2.43
07:07<@Rubidium>if you don't trust just-released libraries
07:08<@Rubidium>Ammler: I've made that for :)
07:08<@Rubidium>Ammler: to fix it, see the last commit
07:09<OwenS>Rubidium, if it is, say, RHEL, then the fixes will have been backported (Though you would expect to see a .rh5 or such on the end...)
07:09<@Rubidium>OwenS: exactly
07:10<@Rubidium>still, releasing a beta in a long-time-stable release sounds kinda odd
07:10<Ammler>this is debian lenny, afaik
07:10<@Rubidium>Ammler: no, it isn't... that has 1.2.27-2+lenny2
07:11<@Rubidium>it might be etch with 1.2.15~beta5-1+etch2
07:11<@Rubidium>but that doesn't have security support anymore
07:12<Ammler>ah, etch, those debian names are confusing for outsiders :-)
07:12<Ammler>you think, our crash could be because of the png?
07:12<Ammler>or was that a side note?
07:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: then call it 4.0
07:13<OwenS>Considering you're not running 32bpp on the server
07:13<@Rubidium>quite unlikely it's png
07:13<@peter1138>debian lenny, but your kernel is :s
07:13<@Rubidium>but something quite funky must have happened
07:14<planetmaker>nice... TTRS is now on bananas.
07:14<@Rubidium>anyhow, please keep the binary and the crash log stuff around so "we" can look at it later; don't have the time to do that now
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07:16<SmatZ>Rubidium: I tried it few times, but OTTD code is too complicated to find the correct place... one chance would be to compile binary with the same parameters, but do not strip it
07:16<SmatZ>so there is at least some info
07:16<SmatZ>code & addresses stay the same
07:17<OwenS>This kind of thing is why I love the GDB debug links. You keep the small executables, but debugging information remains available
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07:20<Ammler>Rubidium: for reference:
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07:35<SmatZ>Ammler: I will get the binary and see what I can do :)
07:36<SmatZ>hmm I need to get my ssh keys from backup...
07:37<Ammler> <-- last nightly not mirrored?
07:39<Ammler>TrueBrain: ^
07:39<@Rubidium>guess rsync failed and didn't notify us
07:41<@Rubidium>what does "protocol version mismatch -- is your shell clean?
07:41<@Rubidium>mean? with rsync?
07:41<Ammler>Rubidium: looks like the other side made some bashrc hacks?
07:43<Ammler>I added once "tail /var/log/messages" to bashrc and that failed my rsync script...
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08:02<Jolteon>[12:59] <+Server> <Tepo99> LOL Fartfield :D :D :D
08:02<Jolteon>OpenTTD has some delightful names.
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>i have never seen any of those... :p
08:06<Jolteon>Well, it's on a server.
08:06<Jolteon>and players can't change names, i don't think?
08:06<Jolteon>So it must have been auto-generated.
08:06<Eoin>nope they cant
08:07<Jolteon>auto-gen thne :p
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>=> only british people are childish enough to care about that
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08:10<SmatZ>Ammler: Rubidium: crashed at company_cmd.cpp:654
08:10<SmatZ> c = Company::Get(_local_company);
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08:10<SmatZ>which is strange, _local_company != COMPANY_SPECTATOR is checked
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08:11<SmatZ>Ammler: setting show_finances 0 should prevent the crash
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08:22<SmatZ>Ammler: can you open a bugreport with please?
08:23<Ammler>SmatZ: I can, but I have no more infos...
08:23<SmatZ>Ammler: I will add what I have found :)
08:23<Ammler>I wasn't around and we don't have any presaves or logs
08:24<SmatZ>no problem
08:24<SmatZ>the issue is _local_company == 0 for dedicated server
08:24<SmatZ>which is strange
08:27<@peter1138>and there's no company 0 in this case?
08:29<SmatZ>peter1138: yes, there isn't
08:40<jordi>Rubidium: see, it built on sparc now
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09:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19597 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: Removing NewGRFs from the GUI list leaked.
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09:53<PeterT>I've opened my 3979 port, and yet the server isn't working:
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09:59<Eddi|zuHause>then you didn't open it correctly
09:59<PeterT>I'll take another look
10:00<PeterT>after a port is opened, do you need to restart the router or anything?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>this looks like local networking/firewall problems, not router problems
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10:03<PeterT>Oh, I probably forgot to allow an exception in the firewall
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10:26<saLOUt>hi all, I just installed openttd 1.0.0 from opensuse repos. I have two problems.
10:27<saLOUt>1) admiralAI produces errors:
10:28<saLOUt>2) how do I get the old windows music to work? with old versions it works after I copied the files into the right place, but now the files seems to not be found as there is no windows options in the music settings.
10:28<PeterT>Game options -> Music set
10:28<PeterT>report that error in the appropriate AI thread
10:29<saLOUt>PeterT: there is only one music set: openmsk
10:29<PeterT>No original_windows?
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: you're sure that it's the right place, AND the files are unmodified?
10:30<saLOUt>PeterT: I tested openttd with admiralAI on windows XP and got no error. So the error may probably not related to the AI itself...
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: can you check the md5sums of the files, and compare them with original_windows.obm (in the game directory)
10:31<saLOUt>Eddi|zuHause: I only know that it worked before with an old release. I think it was something like 0.7
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: yes, the old releases did not check the md5sum
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10:33<saLOUt>Eddi|zuHause: in /usr/share/openttd/gm there is a openmsx.obm but no original_windows.obm.
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: it should have been installed with the game
10:33<saLOUt>so it should be placed next to openmsx.obm?
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10:37<saLOUt>Ammler, Eddi|zuHause: the opensuse repo package called openttd-data doesnt contain any other obm-files.
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: no, the openttd package itself must contain it
10:37<Ammler>you used the games repo, I assume?
10:38<saLOUt>I don't know if this is really a bug, because you have to copy some files manually anyway
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10:38<saLOUt>yes, the game repo
10:38<Ammler>saLOUt: you have to copy the original ttd files, yes.
10:38<saLOUt>Ammler: so the next time i copy these files i will pay attention to copy the obm file, too.
10:38<Ammler>you need to copy those to ~/.openttd/
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: this is a bug in the packaging, if the openttd package (not openttd-data) does not contain those two files
10:39<Ammler>saLOUt: no need, they should be in the package
10:39<saLOUt>Ammler: do you use the same repo?
10:39<Ammler>but I guess, the guy there does because of some reason do a manual install
10:40<Ammler>no, I use
10:40<saLOUt> is the mail adress mentioned in the .rpm meta infos
10:40<Ammler>yeah, I know, I already prepared a patch for him...
10:41<saLOUt>so i don't report the bug as you will already do?
10:41<Ammler>if you like, do
10:41<Ammler>so he might see others having issues
10:41<saLOUt>whats the difference between those two openttd repos?
10:41<Ammler>games is kinda official suse
10:41<Ammler>the other one is "my factory"
10:43<Ammler>it does also have dev tools for newgrfs
10:43<Ammler>or the package to join #openttdcoop server
10:45<Ammler>or dedicated server version :-)
10:45<saLOUt>Ammler: you should try to get a copy of your packages directly into the games repo. I think there is something like a copy-function in opensuse build service to reach this
10:45<Ammler>yes, called submit-request, I know :-)
10:46<Ammler>because of support for dedicated and patches and branches, my spec is a bit too complicated for mainstream, I fear.
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10:50<marmotz>hi, excuse my english but i'm french... i'm using Ubuntu (10.04 but 9.10 has the same problem). I've downloaded openttd 1.0, opensfx and openmsx. No soucy with openttd and opensfx. No music played. when i launch openttd music player, all the tracks was displaying very quickly but no music played.
10:50<marmotz>i must install a midi player on my ubuntu to play music in openttd ?
10:51<marmotz>i trying
10:51<+glx>and also check known-bugs.txt
10:51<marmotz>i already check
10:51<Ammler>I would guess, if you install with apt-get, such things does happen automatically
10:51<marmotz>i follow all instructions, but nothing to do...
10:52<marmotz>Ammler: no, openttd was installed by .deb on openttd website
10:52<marmotz>thanks Ammler i've got the music :)
10:52<Ammler>yaw :-)
10:52<marmotz>oh yes it's good
10:53<marmotz>thanks !!
10:53<Ammler>doesn't the openttd deb packages recommend to install timidity?
10:53<marmotz>and thank you to understand my very bad english :)
10:53<PeterT>how interesting: <bja> Sorry to bug but todays connection is a bit flakey
10:53<marmotz>i don't see
10:53<Ammler>or maybe you disalbed installing recommends?
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10:54<marmotz>Ammler: it was installed with GDebi
10:55<marmotz>one click on install... i don't check recommanded package
10:55<Ammler>I do not know software managers of debian, was just a guess. :-)
10:56<marmotz>ok :)
10:57<marmotz>thank you :)
10:57<marmotz>and good bye :)
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11:09<saLOUt>Ammler: did your repo openttd version works with admiralAI?
11:09<Ammler>no idea, why shouldn't?
11:10<saLOUt>maybe there is a second packaging bug as there is always this error:
11:11<saLOUt>i change the AI settings to start from the first day on and increse the playing speed...
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11:14<saLOUt>Ammler: your openttd version cannot be found via webpin...
11:15<Ammler>yep, webpin is broken quite some time already...
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11:16<Ammler>the only missing repo here is packman, which you have installed anyway.
11:17<saLOUt>Ammler: download.opensuse is down...
11:19<Ammler>oh, bad, "they" are aware of
11:22<__ln__>dihedral: what do you say:
11:25<__ln__>Rubidium: unless dihedral says something unexpected, all the comments indicate that #2585 has either got fixed on its own, or it is not-a-bug in openttd.
11:26<avdg>what should be tested?
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11:46<saLOUt>Ammler: what is the difference between openttd-data and openttd-data-opengfx?
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11:49<planetmaker>probably included sound an music
11:51<saLOUt>planetmaker: thought that would be already included in openttd-data
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11:52<planetmaker>saLOUt: yes. But not in ...opengfx
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11:53<planetmaker>and one might be quite content with just installing opengfx. A base graphics set is needed. Sound and music are purely optional
11:53<planetmaker>(or the NoSound set is part of OpenTTD rather ;-) )
11:55<saLOUt>admiralAI seems to be platform dependant. works with winXP and doesn't with linux.
11:56<planetmaker>use the same version on both?
11:57<saLOUt>dbg: [ai] [1] [S] Your script made an error: the index 'GetHeight' does not exist
11:59<frosch123>GetHeight is ancient, you are using a very outdated version of admiral ai
11:59<saLOUt>frosch123: good to know. I used the the ingame downloader.
12:00<saLOUt>admiralAI seems to be v22
12:00<frosch123>maybe it does not find the compatibility wrappers
12:00<planetmaker>that sounds about current
12:01<frosch123>ok, it got removed in 1.0, so agreed not that ancient :)
12:01<frosch123>saLOUt: likely you are missing "compat_0.7.nut", resp ottd does not find it
12:02<saLOUt>frosch123: where do this file have to be placed?
12:04<saLOUt>frosch123: indeed, there is no compat_.. file in my /usr/share/openttd
12:04<frosch123>for me it is in the ai folder next to the data folder, no idea where it goes in a regular installation
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>saLOUt: another bug in the packaging?
12:05<saLOUt>Eddi|zuHause: seems so. Also in the package of Ammler.
12:05<saLOUt>what is in your ai folder?
12:05<saLOUt>only this one file_
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12:06<frosch123>if you installed 1.0 there should also be compat_1.0.nut, if you installed nightly then also compat_1.1.nut
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>./bin/ai/compat_1.0.nut ./bin/ai/compat_1.1.nut ./bin/ai/compat_0.7.nut
12:07<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that is in your working copy :)
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes, he asked what was in my folder :)
12:07<frosch123>you are lacking the regression
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>no, i just did not mention it :)
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause>... weather just turned drastically worse...
12:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: and I thought it was quiet because everyone was out in the sun :o
12:11<frosch123>what are you doing in the sun without a notebook?
12:11<andythenorth>holding the baby...
12:12<Ammler>[18:05] <saLOUt> Eddi|zuHause: seems so. Also in the package of Ammler. <-- :-o
12:13<Ammler>I do use make install, nothing fancy
12:15<frosch123>Ammler: does your rpm install the ai compatibilitiy stuff?
12:15<Ammler>AdmiralAI works here
12:16<Ammler>frosch123: how would I need to install that locally?
12:16<Ammler>something else than make install?
12:17<George>Does CB 36 happen for a train when a wagon is attached? Or if it is coming out of depot?
12:17<frosch123>that is different for every property
12:17<Ammler>marcel@inspiron:/usr/share/openttd/ai> l *.nut
12:17<Ammler>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7538 2010-04-01 11:07 compat_0.7.nut
12:17<Ammler>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 646 2010-04-01 11:07 compat_1.0.nut
12:18<saLOUt>Ammler: for me there was no ai folder at all
12:18<Ammler>then you didn't install from the coop repo
12:18<saLOUt>i did a forced upgrade to your repo version
12:19<Ammler>how does that work?
12:19<Ammler>hmm, i might see the issue
12:19<Ammler>you need also to install openttd-data from my repo
12:22<saLOUt>Ammler: from yast:
12:23<Ammler>yes, that isn't "my" data package
12:24<Ammler>I splitted openttd in gui dedicated and data,
12:25<Ammler>looks like I need to hurry with my bug report :-)
12:25<George>frosch123: speed, TE, speed, power
12:26<OwenS>WebGL is well defined, based on existing standards, and already has working implementations. So naturally Microsoft wont support it." Hehe
12:26<saLOUt>Ammler: so which packages do i need for a fullfeatured opensource non-dev opentttd installation?
12:26<saLOUt>OwenS: ^^
12:26<Ammler>openttd and openttd-data
12:27<Ammler>from "my" repo
12:27<saLOUt>Ammler: ok, maybe i did some mistakes...
12:28<frosch123>George: those are most likely updated when attaching/removing/reordering wagons, when refitting, and when leaving the depot
12:28<Ammler>yeah, I assume, you only updated openttd and forgot about openttd-data
12:28<Ammler>I need to make that dependency more specific, it seems
12:28<Ammler>wasn't aware that official maintainer used that too, as it is useless there
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123, George: what about changing railtype?
12:29<frosch123>te and power most likely also when chaing railtype, speed maybe not
12:30<saLOUt>maybe my mistake: wrong rpm .. versions i am going to see if everything works for now. after all the games rpms are really broken.
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12:35<b_jonas>is the 1.0.0 release for real or an april fools?
12:35<avdg>what do you think?
12:36<avdg>what yes, its an option question :)
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13:07<SpComb>hmm... is there a known division-by-zero crash caused by road vehicles with a zero weight?
13:08<SpComb> <-- this crash.png shows a vehicle weight of 0t, and the crash.dmp shows an "Integer division by zero" exception in GroundVehicle<T, Type>::GetAcceleration() where `mass` is 0
13:12<SpComb>reproducible in vanilla r19596
13:12<Terkhen>yes, but I thought I solved it long before committing RV acceleration
13:12<Terkhen>thanks for the report, I'll take a look at it later
13:12<SpComb>should I file something on
13:13<Terkhen>that will ensure that I don't forget this again :)
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13:14<SpComb>urgh, I can't register my username because I need to merge it :(
13:15*SpComb doesn't have a flyspray account yet
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13:15<planetmaker>SpComb but you have some OpenTTD account, do you?
13:15<SpComb>apparently I once made a bananas account
13:16<SpComb>the merge page was kind enough to tell me
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13:16*andythenorth new FISH. not a big update, just some tanker sprites
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13:25<b_jonas>oh argh
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13:34<Terkhen>SpComb: thanks
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13:42<andythenorth>stupid farms
13:44*andythenorth thinks a bit
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19598 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: turkish - 2 changes by canbu
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 8 changes by Madvin
13:47*andythenorth ponders how to make grain farms locate near each other
13:49<frosch123>check for fields?
13:50<frosch123>but you might get trouble for the first farm :p
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>make a randomised location callback that makes it increasingly unlikely to plant farms the higher the area is. then farms will cluster in the lower regions of the map
13:50<frosch123>and the reverse for forrests?
13:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yep, I think something like that
13:51<andythenorth>I can check how many farms are already on the map
13:52<andythenorth>that will sort the first one out :)
13:52<andythenorth>currently I find farm transport really dull....which is a bit dull because I put lots of farms into FIRS :P
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, if you strictly look for the first one on the map, then they make some continuous space, which might be suboptimal on large maps
13:53<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I can occasionally randomly branch and just build one 'anywhere'
13:53<andythenorth>farms need low output, and they need to cluster. Then RVs can move small amounts to a railhead or port.
13:53<frosch123>what makes transporting other cargo less dull?
13:53<andythenorth>it just looks stupid building a train line to every farm
13:54<andythenorth>and equally stupid servicing one farm with twenty or more rvs
13:58<b_jonas>20? seriously?
14:01<Terkhen>I have 43 rv for an arable farm + fruit plantation, and the destination is roughly 20 tiles away
14:01<andythenorth>does it look silly? :)
14:02<andythenorth>is it a good idea to force farms to locate *away* from town? I think not
14:02<Terkhen>only quite busy... the arable farm is producing 423+423 and the fruit plantation produces 387
14:02<b_jonas>Terkhen: but how many farms and plantations are there?
14:03<b_jonas>I mean 20 per farm would be a lot
14:03<b_jonas>but 20 in a complex is okay
14:03<Terkhen>a single arable farm and a single fruit plantation
14:03<andythenorth>farm production is going to be lower in future FIRS :)
14:04<andythenorth>frosch123: what are the possible range of values for the production multiplier? I can't seem to find it documented :o
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think the default industries don't go below 4
14:05<frosch123>hmm, i can think of several things that could be called production multiplier :s
14:05<andythenorth>nvm, I found it straight after asking the question m(
14:06<andythenorth>production rate is a value between 04h and 80h
14:07<andythenorth>I assume the rate is multiplied by the values of prop 12 or 13 in industry action 0?
14:07<andythenorth>that seems to be the case anyway
14:07<andythenorth>or perhaps not
14:07<frosch123>yes, but there is also a flag to multiply the production callback result by the rate
14:09<andythenorth>interesting...where is that?
14:09<andythenorth>my purpose here is just setting an upper limit on primary production
14:09<frosch123>bit 14 of prop 1a
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14:12*andythenorth does some maths to try and understand primary productin
14:12<andythenorth>production /s
14:15<andythenorth>@calc 21*6*80
14:15<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 10080
14:15<andythenorth>so the coal mine has prop 12 as 21, which would imply max production of 10,080t when rate is 80
14:15<andythenorth>But that leve is never reach
14:15<andythenorth>ahem, bad typing
14:15<andythenorth>that level is never reached
14:16*andythenorth meh, read the source
14:17<nighthawkcm>I wish industries you se3rvice dont suddenly close, and actually rise more as you service them well ...
14:18<nighthawkcm>I think the time / year you are in also modifies the output, my coal mines produce way more since 2010
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14:20<pazifi>i have a quastion to openttd. how can i sell or rid busses or trains?
14:20<OwenS>pazifi, send them to depot then drag them to the trash
14:21<b_jonas>does it happen in openttd too that if you don't service oil refineries from oil wells then all of them close up before the first sea oil rig appears
14:21<andythenorth>yep pretty much
14:22<nighthawkcm>can happen, same with factories
14:22<pazifi>OwenS: okay. where is the trash-symbol? but i don't see the trashsymbol :/
14:22<OwenS>pazifi, on the right hand side of the depot window
14:23<pazifi>orudge: with one car and a cross?
14:23<andythenorth>after reading the source, I am not much the wiser about industry production
14:23<pazifi>ähm OwenS,.. sorry not orudge
14:23<frosch123>andythenorth: a primary industry produces every 256 ticks (8 or 9 times a month). everytime it produces prop12 resp. prop13 * productionrate / 16 (with 16 being the default ratE)
14:23<pazifi>OwenS: ahhh
14:23<OwenS>pazifi, that sounds right. I may be thinking original graphics
14:23<pazifi>OwenS: i must drag an drop
14:23<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks. make sense
14:23<pazifi>OwenS: very thanks :D
14:24*pazifi happy
14:25<andythenorth>that would make perfect sense with maxing out coal mines at 1080t, which is what FIRS does IIRC
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause><b_jonas> does it happen in openttd too that if you don't service oil refineries from oil wells then all of them close up before the first sea oil rig appears <-- theoretically the last industry is supposed to be protected from closing
14:44<b_jonas>Eddi|zuHause: good
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15:03<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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15:30<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19599 /trunk/src/ground_vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3751]: Vehicles with a weight of zero crashed the game when using realistic acceleration.
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15:40<planetmaker>hm... my download content seems to be broken, the tars I get seem to be trunkated. Any pointers how to start digging into the issue?
15:40<planetmaker>Deleting and re-downloading is not what's going to help
15:40<planetmaker>it's reproducable for me, with a number of grfs / AI
15:41<planetmaker>if I leave content download and re-enter it, the just downloaded stuff is also marked as not present (again)
15:41<planetmaker>so OpenTTD regognizes that the previous download has not the correct md5sum, though immediately after download I have a green bullet next to the stuff
15:42<planetmaker>And it seems I'm not the only one as I've talked to another person who has the same issue... might be yet another OSX...
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>somewhere in the forum it said something about known bug...
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't know any details
15:43<planetmaker>it's not known in the sense of "is on FS yet"
15:43<planetmaker>but I'd like to know more :-)
15:43<planetmaker>And I posted in at least one of those threads.
15:43<@peter1138>i think i had it on windows, actually
15:44<@peter1138>maybe it's a mirror being odd?
15:44-!-kkb1101 [] has joined #openttd
15:44<planetmaker>peter1138: my testcase is the current NoCAB 2.0.4.
15:44<planetmaker>I have no idea whether it's the mirror or not. How could I test?
15:44<planetmaker>If I manually download the tar from the forum - all is fine.
15:44<planetmaker>My mirror is the NL mirror afaik
15:45<planetmaker>at least that's where I end up with
15:46-!-heffer [] has quit [Quit: heffer]
15:47<planetmaker>when I get the tar.gz from that mirror, gunzip it, all is fine, too
15:48-!-heffer [] has joined #openttd
15:48<planetmaker>(doing that manually that is)
15:51-!-pazifi [] has quit [Quit: Ich bin gegangen]
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15:53<planetmaker>hm... can I teach OpenTTD to keep the tar.gz which it downloaded?
15:55<frosch123>he, also happens for me
15:55<frosch123>so, no osx
15:56<planetmaker>*uff* ;-)
15:56<frosch123>but, the tar arrives and looks all fine
15:57<planetmaker>it's truncated
15:57<planetmaker>and too small and wrong md5sum
15:57<frosch123>how does the gui detemine whether a version is present?
15:57<planetmaker>filename and for AIs the version
15:57<planetmaker>I *think*
15:58<planetmaker>don't mind me
15:59*SmatZ minds planetmaker
16:00<frosch123>it is not truncated for me
16:00<frosch123>if i download the tar.gz from bananas webinterface and extract it, i get the same file
16:00<planetmaker>I don't
16:00<frosch123>but the gui shows it as not installed
16:01<planetmaker>it's missing 26kByte for NoCAB 2.0.4
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16:01<frosch123>430080 <- that is my filesize
16:01<frosch123>88912 <- resp. the compressed one
16:02<planetmaker>that's the one which works for me, too. But the content_download one is only 409600 bytes
16:03-!-avdg [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:03<planetmaker>But I get the same thing with virtually every ai I tried to update
16:03<frosch123>restarting ottd makes the gui show the correct thing
16:04-!-avdg [] has joined #openttd
16:04<OwenS>Thats an odd number. Which for some reason reminds me of the case of a mail server failing to send mail to sites beyond a certain distance
16:04<frosch123>ok, verified with trans ai. downloading work, but closing and reopening the content gui makes the "dot" vanish, while restarting ottd makes it permanent
16:05<frosch123>so, different issue :)
16:05<planetmaker>is your trainsAI working?
16:05<planetmaker>what you report wrt GUI is the same here. Additionally the file is really broken
16:06<frosch123>hmm, trans or trains :s
16:06<planetmaker>but different is: a re-start won't make the dots green for me.
16:06<frosch123>trAIns-2.tar <- ok, ls -ltr says it downloaded that one :p
16:07<frosch123>yeah, there seem to be two issues :) the files are not properly rescanned/marked. and for you they are not downloaded properly
16:08<planetmaker>ok. Any ideas how I should tackle the wrong download and /or gunzip?
16:08<planetmaker>I guess I should start with not gunzipping and looking whether the gzip is the same...
16:08<frosch123>and trans has incomplete dependencies on bananas
16:09<planetmaker>I'll test with simpleAI. Least traffic
16:09<frosch123> unlink(GetFullFilename(this->curInfo, false)); <- comment that line
16:10<frosch123>hmm, wrong line, that one is for music :)
16:10<frosch123> unlink(GetFullFilename(this->curInfo, true)); <- that one :)
16:12<planetmaker>let's see...
16:13<frosch123>oh, the library trans requires is not even on bananas?
16:13<frosch123>how useful :p
16:15<frosch123>9938 downloads, i wonder how many found the forum post for downloading the required libraries
16:15<planetmaker>frosch123: thanks. The downloaded gzip is fine.
16:15<planetmaker>So gunzip fails
16:16<frosch123>that would be zlib
16:17<frosch123>makes it sound like an osx issue again :p
16:18<planetmaker>maybe... maybe it's all the ****** new zlib version
16:19<planetmaker>zlib @1.2.4 archivers/zlib
16:19<planetmaker>it was working with my previous one. But I don't quite know wheter it also worked for some time with this one...
16:19<planetmaker>hmpf... downgrade...
16:22<frosch123>"If everything gonna right, there are a few days to go to Bananas." Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:26 pm <- so there is some hope :)
16:22<frosch123>that is the last post in the topic about the library trans needs
16:23<planetmaker>ah :-P
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16:33<planetmaker>btw, it would be nice, if FS3750 could be considered. People compiling complain about that "bug" which is no bug...
16:34<planetmaker>it's not OpenTTD's bug either, but...
16:35-!-Phazorx is now known as FS1063
16:36-!-George [~George@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:38<planetmaker>hm... we can conclude that zlib 1.2.4 is broken on mac(ports)
16:38<planetmaker>with zlib 1.3.3_3 I don't have issues
16:39<planetmaker>which was the long-term version till they started to work again in late 2009 on the lib.
16:40<planetmaker>and then I have the same issue as you, frosch123, with the availability-bullets
16:41<frosch123>already debugging :p
16:41<planetmaker>what zlib version do you use?
16:41-!-heffer [] has quit [Quit: heffer]
16:42<planetmaker>I wonder whether it's really OSX-specific, or if most others just didn't update yet.
16:42<frosch123>dbg: [misc] Found tar '/home/frosch/.openttd/content_download/ai//trAIns-2.tar' with 42 new files
16:42<frosch123>dbg: [misc] Found tar '/home/frosch/.openttd/content_download/ai/trAIns-2.tar' with 0 new files
16:42<frosch123>something looks wrong :p
16:42-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:42<planetmaker>hm... :-)
16:43-!-Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
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16:44*SpComb silently curses memcached for not accepting objects >1MB
16:44<frosch123>planetmaker: 1.2.3-r1
16:45<planetmaker>seems even older ;-)
16:45<frosch123>gentoo stable
16:45<planetmaker>older than 2006 :-P
16:45<planetmaker>Changes in (16 August 2006) <-- zlib
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16:56<planetmaker>where would it need being noted that zlib 1.2.4 is incompatible with openttd?
16:58-!-aber [] has quit []
16:58<planetmaker>ah... yes, possibly :-)
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17:21<SmatZ>planetmaker: how "incompatible"?
17:22<planetmaker>incompatible as in won't gunzip successfully --> broken unusable online content
17:22<planetmaker>fs 3752
17:22<planetmaker>oh, you probably read that ;-)
17:23<planetmaker>nothing which I downloaded was usable, everything truncated
17:23<SmatZ> FS#3752 - Crash after using hovercrafts
17:23<planetmaker>the downloaded .gz file was correct, though
17:23-!-aber [] has joined #openttd
17:23<SmatZ>FS#3753 ;)
17:23<planetmaker>oh. 3753 :-)
17:24-!-Maarten [] has joined #openttd
17:24<SmatZ>planetmaker: does the breakage apply to all files?
17:24<planetmaker>yes. All I tested
17:24-!-Grelouk [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:25*SmatZ tests
17:25<planetmaker>I tested 3 AI and 3 newgrf
17:25<SmatZ>how do I know it's broken?
17:25<planetmaker>truncated tar
17:25<planetmaker>tar tf filename will tell you
17:28<SmatZ>tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
17:28<planetmaker>the error
17:28<planetmaker>you tested on the 2nd largest file available, though ;-)
17:29<SmatZ>I knew that is a tar ;)
17:29-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
17:30<planetmaker>you built with zlib 1.2.4, too, yes?
17:30<SmatZ>fine with 1.2.3
17:31-!-Maarten- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<planetmaker>there are many different 1.2.3 ;-)
17:33<planetmaker>1.2.3 ...
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17:34<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19600 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix (r18994): Presence of online content was not properly updated after download due to duplicate slashes in the path.
17:35<planetmaker>SmatZ: I wonder whether to file a bug report with zlib...
17:36<SmatZ>planetmaker: it can be bug in OTTD
17:36-!-Maarten [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:36<planetmaker>then I'll refrain from doing so :-)
17:37-!-aber [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:37<SmatZ>I think we will report it upstream if it is zlib bug ;)
17:39<SmatZ>- Fix memory leaks in gzclose_r() and gzclose_w(), file leak in gz_open()
17:39<SmatZ>at last!
17:39<planetmaker>but looking at network_content.cpp:368-400 doesn't show much
17:39<SmatZ>Rubidium (and a bit me) spent quit some time with that
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17:46<SmatZ>@calc 5373952 / 64
17:46<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 83968
17:46<SmatZ>@calc 5373952 / 65536
17:46<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 82
17:49<planetmaker>hm... I'll continue tomorrow. Have a good night, dear Smatz :-) and all others, too
17:51<SmatZ>good night, planetmaker :)
17:52-!-nighthawkcm [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
17:55<SmatZ>@calc 5386240 - 5373952
17:55<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 12288
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18:14<SmatZ>that f**** zlib doesn't have any bugzilla nor a f***** mail list archive
18:14<SmatZ>no wonder their software sucks
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18:17<SmatZ>open mail list archive, that is
18:18<SpComb>You have been Euphemized
18:18<SpComb>it's zlib from the 1970's or something?
18:18<SmatZ>the webpage looks like from the 1970's
18:25-!-b_jonas [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:25<frosch123>so, gzeof() is broken
18:26<frosch123> if (read == 0 && gzeof(fin)) break; <- replacing the "while (!gzeof(fin))" with that fixes it for me
18:26<frosch123> <- maybe related to that one
18:29<SmatZ>frosch123: yeah, I read that
18:29<SmatZ>but I wonder when that was implemented
18:37<@Rubidium>the debian maintainer of zlib kind-of doesn't trust zlib (and hasn't even bothered with 1.2.4 yet)
18:37<SmatZ>good :)
18:39<@Rubidium>so any zlib >= is broken beyond use
18:40<SmatZ>looks so, I don't have 1.2.3.x in my repo though
18:40-!-valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40<SmatZ>but the zlib 1.2.3 I am using is from October 2010
18:40<@Rubidium>1.2.3 for you might very well be or so
18:40<SmatZ>so <
18:41<@Rubidium>- Note in zlib.h that gzerror() should be used to distinguish from EOF
18:41<@Rubidium>from zlib's changelog
18:41<frosch123>i did not found that note though :p
18:42<frosch123>in 1.2.4
18:43<SmatZ>since when does that apply?
18:43<frosch123>the description of gzeof says that it may return false, while eof has actually been reached (i.e. gzread will return 0), but that it gzread will not read anymore after gzeof returned true
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18:44<SmatZ>frosch123: that's for the case when "we are exactly at the end of the file, but haven't read past the end yet"
18:46<SmatZ>gzeof() doesn't work according to documentation :)
18:46<Terkhen>good night
18:46-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:49<@Rubidium>SmatZ: there's a mailing list:
18:50<SmatZ>Rubidium: yeah, I need to authorize first
18:50<SmatZ>but my account hasn't been approved (yet)
18:50<frosch123> <- sounds similar
18:51<SmatZ>also, what a stupidity is it to have "subscribers-only" read-only mail archive
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18:51<SmatZ>frosch123: nice :)
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19:20<SekiSelu>Anyone got a second to help me with a GRF cargo question?
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>... you wasted so many seconds by now...
19:23-!-FS1063 [~pavelkoll@] has left #openttd []
19:24*Yexo wonders if adding to the channel topic would be a good idea
19:25<Yexo>and yes SekiSelu, part of it applies to you (as Eddi|zuHause already said)
19:25<frosch123> return state->mode == GZ_READ ? (state->eof && state->have == 0 && state->strm.avail_in == 0) : 0; <- changing gzlib.c:435 seems to fix it. let's see whether one can find some vcs
19:28<SekiSelu>Calculator broke? :)
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19:35*NCommander finds the AI is quite difficult to beat even 0on easy; its extremely agressive
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19:39<fjb>Which AI?
19:42-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>people can never make up their minds... the AI is either too easy or too hard...
19:52-!-KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:54*fjb still wonders which AI is that hard.
19:58<SekiSelu>If it's too hard, turn on "Build while paused" and go to town :P
19:58<SekiSelu>Then at least the playing field is level
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20:03<fjb>I never needed that "build while paused" feature. But which AI gives you that problems?
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20:15<NCommander>fjb: PassAI I think, although I'm still a newbie :-/
20:20-!-ptr [] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz]
20:20<NCommander>I think I want to have a main line with many industries, with both termius (with pass through lanes), but I'm not quite sure how to build it :-/
20:21<Brianetta>I find that the mouse is a good start...
20:23<NCommander>Brianetta: heh ;-)
20:32<fjb>Start easy. Look for a coal mine a power station or steel mill. Extend your network from that.
20:34-!-Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:42<NCommander>fjb: right, I got that part, but I have issues when I want to have trains then go from the steel mill to say a factory, and it needs to pass back along the same track
20:43<fjb>Use path signals.
20:44<NCommander>fjb: I guess my problem is I have issues figuring out how to smartly/sanly build stations, I think I need to build a junction on each one that will be a terminus in its own right (at least right now)
20:46<fjb>Build not too complicated while you are a newbie. You will learn the complicated things over time.
20:46<NCommander>The other thing I'm not sure about is it better to have one train dedicated to taking iron ore to a steel mill, then another take it from said mill to the factory, OR have two trains do all three, and half part of their cars empty
20:46<NCommander>fjb: right, sorry. I greatly enjoy this game, I just don't want to suck at it ;-)
20:47<fjb>One (or more) train(s) bring or from the mine to the steel mill. Other trains bring the steel from the mill to the factory.
20:48<fjb>You suck if you start too complicated without knowing what you are doing.
20:48*NCommander starts building
20:49<fjb>That is the best way to learn. If you fail start over again and make it better. You learn from every station and every line you build. And everybody has to find his own building style.
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>... this damn forum did it again...
21:00<PeterT>As it does every night.
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>why can't it do that at like 7 AM, when literally nobody is accessing the forum?
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21:07<fjb>7 AM where?
21:07<PeterT>7AM in Europe, and 2 AM in the states
21:07-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
21:07<PeterT>But I check the forums when I get up
21:08<PeterT>at 6-630
21:09<fjb>It's like demanding no porn on the internet before midnight.
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: the ttd community is 90% european
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>and european bandwidth usage is lowest around 6-7 AM
21:11<fjb>You should respect minorities.
21:23<NCommander>fjb: I think i finally had my first successful network :-)
21:23<fjb>Good. The next one gets better. One step after the other.
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21:58<yuriks_>can the overtaking stuff be done in new versions?
21:58<yuriks_>I'm trying to do something like that but it's not working
22:00<Sacro>head, meet desk
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22:19<NCommander>hey yuriks
22:20<yuriks>hey NCommander
22:20<yuriks>how are your trains going? XD
22:21<NCommander>yuriks: arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -fmessage-length=0 -c -fno-omit-frame-pointer -Os -fno-strict-aliasing -DENABLE_LAYOUT_EXPERIMENTAL=0 -fno-stack-protector -I. -I../ -I../inc -I../inc/pch -I../inc -I../unx/inc -I../ -I. -I/home/mcasadevall/src/ooo/current/ -I/home/mcasadevall/src/ooo/curre
22:21*NCommander coughs
22:21<NCommander>wrong copy/pate
22:23<yuriks>NCommander: nice, that looks organized
22:23<NCommander>there are some places where I could have done better but this is my first network railroad :-)
22:24<NCommander>yuriks: I'm using timetables so I don't get a late delay but my trains aren't running empty
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22:27<yuriks>right now I'm trying to make my railroad overtake-capable, but I'm failing hard =P
22:29<NCommander>yuriks: ?
22:29<yuriks>like, I have this long ass straigh track (two way)
22:29<yuriks>but sometimes slower trains get in front of faster trains
22:30<yuriks>slowing them down a lot
22:30<yuriks>so I'm trying to make it so that the trains can overtake them using the other track if it's free
22:30<NCommander>yuriks: isn't that just a matter of using one way path signals?
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22:32<Eddi|zuHause>yuriks: no, the overtaking support has never been implemented
22:33<yuriks>Eddi|zuHause: bah
22:34<NCommander>yuriks: interested in any online play?
22:34<yuriks>Eddi|zuHause: what do you suggest instead? making another track outwards for overtaking?
22:34<yuriks>or does not even that work?
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>yuriks: 3 tracks work rather well... two single direction ones on the outside, and a bidirectional one in the middle
22:35<yuriks>NCommander: maybe, I want to keep my lovely train network though xD
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>make sure the middle sections are long enough
22:35<yuriks>Eddi|zuHause: hmmm, that's a good idea
22:36<NCommander>yuriks: heh, how long have you been playing OpenTTD?
22:36<yuriks>NCommander: since the start of the week, I guess?
22:38<yuriks>the signaling interval looks kinda long though
22:40<Eddi|zuHause>it won't work when they are too short
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22:40<Eddi|zuHause>trains will end up standing opposite of each other most of the time
22:41<yuriks>hmm, I'll definitly try that
22:41<NCommander>yuriks: if you post a screen shot, I might be able ot help, I got my first overtake (around a station though) to work
22:43<piro>So what do you do if you've made a train system that delivers mail between two cities, and then one city stops accepting mail, and the other city gets really mad?
22:44<Eddi|zuHause>piro: fund new buildings
22:44<yuriks>ignore the fact that they are all runnin the same way
22:44<Eddi|zuHause>or try to extend the catchment area
22:44<yuriks>that's because I just messed up the signaling
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22:48<piro>Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure I follow you
22:49<Eddi|zuHause>piro: each station has a catchment area around it. the more houses it covers, the more likely it accepts mail
22:49<piro>Eddi|zuHause: So how do you extend the area?
22:49<piro>Oh right. Build bigger stations
22:49<Eddi|zuHause>by adding more parts to the station
22:51<piro>Crap. I can't extend it in any direction that will make it closer to the city. It needs to be extended perpendicular to the way it already sits
22:53<Eddi|zuHause>you can add e.g. a roadstop to the station by holding ctrl while placing it
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22:56<piro>You mean a truck station?
22:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes, for example. but a bus station would do the trick as well
22:59<piro>Huh. That's really odd. You can join a train station with a truck station, and magically the train station accepts mail too O_o
22:59<piro>And you can put the truck station in the middle of the city
23:00<yuriks>it's pretty annoying how you can't demolish only parts of a station though
23:04<+glx>you can
23:04<yuriks>you can?
23:04<yuriks>when I try to dynamite part of it it blows up the entire thing
23:04<+glx>use the bulldozer
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23:12<NCommander>trucks can *really* make an effective passenger feeder service
23:12<yuriks>passenger trucks?
23:12<yuriks>human rights would like to have a word with you ;P
---Logclosed Sun Apr 11 00:00:00 2010