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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-12

---Logopened Mon Apr 12 00:00:01 2010
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01:55<amalloy>someone suggested i try PBI instead of FIRS, but i can't seem to find it in the online content section. i can download the grf manually, but i can't find info on how to install them
01:56<amalloy>anyone have info about either way to do it?
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01:58<amalloy>ah, never mind. apparently i had to search the wiki for newgrf, not grf
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02:25<Terkhen>good morning
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05:06<Asheron>greetings salutations and all that other rot
05:07<Asheron>anyone here?
05:08<Noldo>on and off
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05:10<Asheron>Noldo have you checked out the FIRS industry replacement GRF?
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05:12<Noldo>unfotunately not
05:13<Asheron>ok, Im trying to find out what vehicle set to use for it, it has a bunch of industries not supported by the standard set in 1.0.0
05:19<Terkhen>Asheron: the README has a list of supported vehicle sets
05:20<Asheron>I read that, didnt see it
05:22<Asheron>Ah ok found it, Thanks Terkhen.
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06:00<amalloy>how do i report AI crashes?
06:00<amalloy>i had some problems with missing libraries earlier, but since fixing that pathzilla crashed after getting quite a few things built correctly
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06:03<Noldo>most have threads in the forum
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07:04<Phazorx>is there some way to make game not to spawn industries?
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07:09<planetmaker>except: write a newgrf
07:09<Phazorx>not even with a custom grf?
07:10<Phazorx>i'm afraid i lack knowledge to do that
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07:13<planetmaker>but even with newgrfs you could not switch that in a running game as with that implementation it'd need setting a parameter
07:14<planetmaker>or possible implementation: a meta-industry (survey camp) which is required withing the <whatever> vicinity in order to allow spawning
07:15<Ammler>frosch's manual industries does that, afaik
07:15<planetmaker>and without that meta-industry: no spawning. Just make that meta-industry close quickly, if not continuously supplied with xy
07:15<Phazorx>Ammler: link to info plz?
07:16<Ammler>Phazorx: preparing scenario for wwottdgd/3?
07:17<Phazorx>nope :)
07:17<Phazorx>testing network concept
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08:12<@peter1138>hurr, pulseaudio tunnels fail ;s
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08:13<@peter1138>RTP works though
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08:23<elmz>argh, is drag&drop land purchase planned?
08:24<elmz>I was in the middle of constructing a giant intersection and then a forest was planted within the area I need :P
08:25<@peter1138>you can just 'plan' it with rail or road tiles ;p
08:26<elmz>so basically I have to cover a 100x100 area with rail/road to ensure something like this doesn't happen? :P
08:27<elmz>I thought this was the kind of thing land purchase was for :P
08:36<@Rubidium>kind of yes...
08:36<@Rubidium>but it is kind of used to block other players by building large areas with purchased land
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>it has been a long standing suggestion to make it drag&drop-able in single player...
08:38<@Rubidium>so find someone to implement and commit that :)
08:38<@peter1138>otoh you can just block with lots of rail/road pieces
08:39<@Rubidium>and then build a bridge over that :)
08:45<elmz>there are always ways to block others
08:46<dihedral>write a 'block detection' :-P
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>how about a limited buy-land, where it blocks "world" actions like industry spawning and town growth, but not player actions?
08:48<elmz>possibly a solution
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>the problem there is that you might want to block AI players, but not human players, which the game engine is designed to NOT distinguish
08:52<elmz>well, personally I just play mplayer with friends, and we even alter our tracks to allow construction for others easier
08:52<elmz>so for me a drag&drop land purchase wouldn't be a problem
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08:53<elmz>maybe there could be a game setting to disallow drag&drop land purchase that public servers could use?
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09:11<Belugas>hello all
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09:22<fjb>Moin Belugas.
09:24<Belugas>hello fjb :)
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09:26<Eddi|zuHause>damn, i just read "BOFH" in that message :p
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10:04<Mazur>Eddi. :-)
10:13<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19614 /trunk/ (33 files in 11 dirs): -Codechange: "it's" => "its" where appropriate
10:13<Mazur>How about this for a solution: implement an "option to buy this land", which can be overridden by another player with straight out buying? You could take out an option on the area you're building, preventing an industry or local authority to build there¸ but if another player _needs_ it to get through, they can buy what they need to progress?
10:14*Mazur highfives CIA-6.
10:16<Mazur>You could also take an option on areas which are built upon, basically requesting politely whoever is within that area to move elsewhere, without having to demolish the buildings. Just like unserviced industries that close.
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10:35<Mazur>Ah, the 4th billion.
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11:46<TrueBrain>CZ mirror is now too in sync with the rest of our network; sorry if anyone had issues downloading the latest nightly :)
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12:05<Ammler>TrueBrain: thanks, we used for a short time nl. directly, already changed back..
12:11<TrueBrain>Ammler: did you know the 'twitter' thing on is slow? And that it holds the main content till it is loaded? That it is terrible for the user?
12:12<Ammler>KenjiE20: ^
12:12<Ammler>isn't it a iframe?
12:12<KenjiE20>blame twitter
12:13<KenjiE20>it's their js box thing
12:13<TrueBrain>no, it is your website
12:13<TrueBrain>it should not matter how long their js stall
12:13<Ammler>then we should replace it with something else
12:13<TrueBrain>yours should be done and done by then
12:13<KenjiE20>it's loaded fine for me, whenever I've made updates
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12:13<Ammler>might it be, we use a table?
12:14<Ammler>and some browsers wait until they have the whole table
12:14*KenjiE20 just ctrl+F5'd
12:14<TrueBrain>here it happens on EVERY page load
12:15<KenjiE20>twitter loaded straight away
12:15<TrueBrain>just holds the main content till that $##$%#$ twitter thing is loaded, and google ads are loaded
12:15<KenjiE20>if anything it paused on google ads
12:15<TrueBrain>do not make your website depend on 3rd party things to be done loading, that is my advise
12:15<KenjiE20>the twitter box loads content in the background
12:15<TrueBrain>(in case of DNS failure or them being down or what ever, you have a never loading website)
12:16<KenjiE20>google ads are in an iframe iirc
12:16<KenjiE20>(I didn't add those)
12:16<TrueBrain>either way, just relaying the fact it is fucking annoying :)
12:16<Ammler>yeah, indeed
12:17<Ammler>KenjiE20: I guess, the iframe is made by the script
12:18<Ammler>TrueBrain: how fast does load for you?
12:21<TrueBrain>at least I am not waiting for the content to show up because of some thingy I would never use
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13:58<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19615 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp graph_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3763]: Company related graphs weren't updated correctly after changing the company colour.
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15:31<Mazur>Ammler: For me it loads up as fast as the browser gets started.
15:32<Vircung>I wonder if you could help me because i couldn't find nothing about far/near end in orders
15:34<planetmaker>Rubidium, you might want to pull the data from our public server (not stable)
15:34<planetmaker>20:17h is interesting
15:34<Mazur>Do you see it listed in the order list, between square brackets after the destinations?
15:34<Alberth>Vircung: it is relatively new
15:34<Mazur>Vircung: Do you see it listed in the order list, between square brackets after the destinations?
15:35<Mazur>Ok, you can change it by clicking on it.
15:35<Vircung>i noticed that but how it works
15:35*Mazur nearly missed out a 'c' in that.
15:35<Alberth>Vircung: just change it, and watch where the trains parks at the platform :) (assuming your train is shorter than the platform)
15:36<Mazur>Well, it a 3 tile train goes to a terminus station with 5 tile tracks, if you set "near end", it'll be out of the station a little faster.
15:36<Mazur>Because then it will, stop on the first 3 patform tiles, not the last 3.
15:37<Alberth>'near end' is the wrong end I think
15:37<Vircung>ahh, i see now
15:37<Alberth>Vircung: now please fix the wiki so it becomes findable :)
15:38<Mazur>Alberth: How do you mean "wrong end"?
15:38<Alberth>isn't 'end' not at the tiles opposite of where the train enters?
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15:39<Vircung>and another thing, i got 1.0 version but i noticed that my fast forward game button isn't working, any ideas ? it's fresh install :)
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15:39<Mazur>They're both "ends" as seen from the platform.
15:40<Mazur>But you could rephrase it into "Start of" and "End of" platform.
15:42<Vircung>Mazur that could be cofuseing becaise start of and end of is relative
15:42<Mazur>Yes, it could.
15:42<Eoin>has cargodist got any further development wise
15:42<Eoin>not followed it for a while
15:44<Mazur>I saw a screenschot with a programmed train, is that a module that can be used in OpenTTD? Or is it a TTDX only feature?
15:44<@Rubidium>Vircung: using Ubuntu or OSX?
15:45<@Rubidium>then I've got no clue; should work fine (you're using the official 1.0.0 though, right?)
15:47<TrueBrain>assuming you havne't joined a multiplayer game ;)
15:48<Vircung>then the button would be unavaible
15:51<Alberth>did you try it with a small game (one or two trains only, for example)?
15:52<Vircung>hmm, no, i started on 2kx2k map, i'll try out that way
15:52<Alberth>Mazur: no idea what a 'programmed train' is
15:53<Vircung>but from start that wasn't working (with 2 trains)
15:53<Alberth>use a smaller map as well for testing
15:53<Alberth>If you run into the CPU speed limit, FF has no effect
15:55<Vircung>not woring either
15:56<Mazur>Alberth: Orders like "If load is more than 90%, go there." "Go to step X"
15:57<Mazur>Found the programmable signals patch.
15:57<Alberth>Vircung: hmm, no clue then.
15:57<Vircung>got same problem with rc3 but i tought that would be fixed
15:57<Vircung>or it happens only to me
15:58<Alberth>Mazur: click 'goto', click at an order in the list. You get a new order with such options.
15:58<Alberth>Mazur: programmable signals is something different (and not in trunk)
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15:59<Mazur>I know. And thank you, I'll figure it from here.
15:59<Mazur>I'm not going to apply the signals patch, since then my savegames would not be runnable by everybody.
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16:04<Mazur>And then where would I be if I ran into an oddity or bug?
16:05<Mazur>At home, that's where I would be, most like.
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16:22<Yexo>XeryusTC: yes, all clients change that value at the same time, but newgrfs can check it while initializing so either all newgrfs would have to be reinitialized when the setting is changed or the next client that joins after the setting was changed might do different things
16:22<planetmaker>long time since I saw that
16:22<PeterT>planetmaker: and it was probably me the last time you saw it
16:22<planetmaker>dunno really.
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16:25<planetmaker>many have gone through that particular kick before ;-)
16:26<planetmaker>while I considered it rude and in dispise of the quoted channel initially, I changed my perception :-)
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16:27<+glx>Vircung: how is cpu usage before you press fast forward?
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16:31<Vircung>let me check
16:32<+glx>dual core?
16:33<Vircung>up to 80%
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16:33<Vircung>nope, 1 core
16:34<+glx>if you have 80% without fast forward, it's normal you don't notice any speed up when you enable fast forward
16:35<+glx>hmm just an idea, do you have the music files?
16:35<Vircung>yea, open one
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16:36<+glx>so forget my idea (I though maybe the player was on without music, so cpu waste)
16:37<+glx>anyway retry with a smaller map, it's quite impossible to see fast forward effect on the biggest ones
16:39<Vircung>i runned a single train in a loop so i'll see the diffrence :P
16:41<XeryusTC>Yexo: thank you for explaining :)
16:41<Vircung>on nightly i also see no diffrence between ff and normal
16:41<+glx>even on 64x64 map ?
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16:43<+glx>what's your cpu?
16:44<Vircung>Athlon 64 @ 2ghz
16:44*Belugas is jealous
16:45<Vircung>hah but 256 ran :P
16:45<+glx>ha that can be the problem
16:45<aber>more RAM
16:45<+glx>windows should be swapping continuously
16:46<Vircung>but the strange thing that even on my gf's notebook it it's the same, ff not working
16:47<Vircung>i got 1,5GB but my pc is freaking out with it :/
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16:47<Vircung>i'll be VERy happy if i could use it
16:48<Vircung>but nvm,
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16:53<Belugas>mmh right.. 256 is quite not enough. I have 512 and i'm already like a snail
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17:08<PeterT>Lol at netsplit
17:09<Belugas>i wuld hardly call THAT a split...
17:09<Belugas>or a very small one...
17:09<Belugas>tiny in fact
17:09<Jolteon>I don't think it was a net-split.
17:09<Belugas>a micro split
17:09<Jolteon>looks like a BNC provider failed.
17:09<Belugas>that would most probably be the case
17:09<PeterT>Good thing I have a good BNC provider.
17:10<Jolteon>or it was just coincidence that one of them uses a ZNC quit message.
17:10<OwenS>Rather polite failure if they had time to quit
17:11<OwenS>But, I'm going to hazard a guess here: All are #openttdcoop members. Presumably, they're using one of their servers/VPSes as a BNC ;-)
17:11<PeterT>I wonder if their BNC crashes randomnly like ours did, Jolteon.
17:11<Jolteon>Happens if ZNC was gracefully quit.
17:11<Jolteon>It's funny that the last two returned a write error.
17:11<PeterT>OwenS: it's a german bouncer, vs****
17:11<aber>ctrl + c
17:11<Jolteon>It could be ZNC was in the process of dying, but by the time it got to the last two quits, it was just fuck it and stopped producing the users error message
17:11<Jolteon>and just scream write errors.
17:12<OwenS>PeterT, aka ;-)
17:12<PeterT>Because Ammler uses the devzone bouncer, and it doesn't fail
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17:15<PeterT>Goodbye, Belugas
17:15<OwenS>PeterT, hmm... I wonder which server that vs* is then
17:16<Ammler>that isn't fail :-P
17:16<Ammler>just update :-)
17:16<PeterT>No no, any BNC downtime is fail :-)
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17:17<OwenS>Gotcha, its codecubes
17:17<Ammler>is there a bouncer which you can update without restart?
17:17<OwenS>Presumably theres an Erlang bouncer somewhere? :p
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17:35*Terkhen should get a bouncer some day
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17:36<PeterT>Terkhen: I can offer you one
17:36-!-elmz [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:36<PeterT>Terkhen: or
17:36<PeterT>has free bouncers
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17:37<Terkhen>I usually don't trust anything that is free and stores personal info
17:37<PeterT>Password is encrypted
17:38<PeterT>Except for nickserv pass, but the admins don't look at your settings anyway
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17:38<planetmaker>Terkhen: if you want a bouncer quickly: yes :-)
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17:43<mrruben5>we just discovered that exit signal looks too much like normal signal in toyland...
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17:48<OwenS>There are signal graphics for different climates? O_o
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17:49<Jolteon>[22:37] <Terkhen> I usually don't trust anything that is free and stores personal info
17:49<Jolteon>rdlBNC doesn't store personal information, aside from your email & password, but you have to be a fool to use the same password as something important.
17:50<Jolteon>and your email is disposed of as soon as your verification mail is sent.
17:50<Ammler>mrruben5: that is because the stake is white too
17:50*Jolteon disappears.
17:50<Ammler>hmm, how is it with original
17:50<PeterT>and NickServ password, but like I said: Adminsdon't look through that stuff anyway. they have better things to do.
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17:50<mrruben5>ammler: yeah we noticed that too :) on all types of railroad
17:50<mrruben5>needs to be way darker
17:51<Ammler>it is even worse with original ttd set
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17:51<Ammler>mrruben5: nobody usually plays toyland ;-)
17:51<mrruben5>for a good reason :P
17:52<mrruben5>by the way, we have a little plan to move the exit from town drop in coop, or even build an entire new station, can you give us your advice?
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17:54<Ammler>mrruben5: not in this channel :-P
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18:29<amalloy>how do i find/join a public game? i'm struggling with getting beyond point-to-point networks and i'd like to see how a good mainline is built and operated
18:29<PeterT>Download the latest stable
18:29<PeterT>and join a random server
18:30<PeterT>#openttdcoop Welcome Stable, for example
18:30<amalloy>i don't know how to join a server
18:31<PeterT>Multiplayer -> Find Servers -> Click on server and "Join game"
18:31<PeterT>make sure you have "internet" and not "LAN"
18:31<amalloy>ah. somehow i must have missed the find servers button. found Internet, but not Servers
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18:35<amalloy>also, i heard there is a grf to make passengers have a destination in mind, but i can't seem to find it
18:36<Ammler>do not confuse grf with patch
18:37<amalloy>oh, this one's not a grf? that explains the problem then. i imagine patches are harder to apply/unapply?
18:38<Ammler>mostly you find compiled bundles in the near of the patch
18:38<PeterT>if you want to try CargoDist (one passengers-destinations patch), see my binaries at
18:38<PeterT>I haven't updated them in a while
18:38<PeterT>but if you want to try...
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18:40<SpComb>you could fully automate the cargodist builds
18:41<PeterT>Your script doesn't automatically run itself, does it?
18:41<SpComb>I wasn't specifically talking about my script, no
18:42<PeterT>ah ok.
18:42<Mazur>CLeaned up an infrastructural weirdness in my game, where express tracks were on the outside of the all stops tracks.
18:42<SpComb>I just mean that you could kick off builds of a random git repo every 24h, no manual work involved
18:42<heffer>(in german)
18:42<Mazur>With trains running along all four tracks.
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18:43<SpComb>although what's missing is an automated way of testing those builds
18:43<SpComb>I presume the official build farm doesn't do that either
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19:37<SpComb>man, I need to start a cargodist-sprinkles franchise in the TT-MS forums
19:37<SpComb>there's like a dozen topics about it there
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19:42<PeterT>Timmaex must feel important announcing all the releases
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20:55<amalloy>i have a brickworks right next to an engineers yard; they both want gravel, and the brickwork wants clay. i'm supplying gravel and clay, but all of the gravel goes to the engineers yard, so neither industry can produce anything. is there a way to fix this?
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21:01<amalloy>never mind. it looks like after a while the engineers get the idea and magically pass along the gravel
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21:23<Terkhen>good night
21:23-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
21:23<Belugas>that is not yet my case :S
21:52<Belugas>a live peter1138!
21:52<Belugas>or... was live...
21:57-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdragon`
22:00<Belugas>me too... barey alive, stil working like a bitchy bitch
22:01-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f466:c041:bcc0:d1cf] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:01<Belugas>customer "just" realized that debit is not working. the payment processor is not yet certified with the current frontend
22:01<Belugas>so we're preparing to switchto another frontend
22:13<Belugas>and you? what are you doing up? already at work
22:20<Belugas>ok... it's a wrap
22:20<Belugas>and t's a bed
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23:03<Mazur>Hm, a bug? I'm trying to finance an Oil Refinery, but it won't let me construct one.
23:03<Mazur>Claims it can only be built near the edge of the map.
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23:24<Cadde>o/ Anyone interested in helping me find out how to apply this .diff file. trunk revision is 19541, .diff is ProgSigs-9e27dcd1-r19541.diff ( and i am using tortoiseSVN. Have also tried tortoiseGIT and GNU-TOOLS patch.exe.
23:25<Cadde>I also direct the ^^^ to PeterT since he is in channel and have already compiled this once.
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 13 00:00:02 2010