| --- | Log | opened Tue Apr 13 00:00:02 2010 |
| 00:29 | <PeterT> | Cadde: You download the source, apply the diff, then compile |
| 00:29 | <PeterT> | You need a proper compiling enviornment |
| 00:30 | <PeterT> | http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling |
| 00:30 | <Cadde> | Yeah, the diff wont apply |
| 00:30 | <Cadde> | thats the issue i have |
| 00:30 | <PeterT> | why won't it apply? |
| 00:30 | <Cadde> | Hmm...missing header for unified diff at line 22 of patch |
| 00:30 | <Cadde> | The next patch looks like a unified diff to me... |
| 00:30 | <Cadde> | can't find file to patch at input line 22 |
| 00:31 | <PeterT> | I don't think that's your problem, that sounds like a bad diff |
| 00:31 | <Cadde> | I am calling with: patch -p1 -i"d:\Downloads\ProgSigs-9e27dcd1-r19541.diff" --verbose --dry-run -l -f |
| 00:31 | <Cadde> | p1 because he has a/ and b/ directories aparently |
| 00:32 | <PeterT> | line twenty-two is @@ -480,6 +483,7 @@ saveload/subsidy_sl.cpp |
| 00:32 | <Cadde> | Yes, i have checked the source.list and it should match |
| 00:33 | <Cadde> | But it doesn't. I am like wtf! |
| 00:33 | <PeterT> | can you try just patch -p1 < ProgSigs-9e27dcd1-r19541.diff |
| 00:33 | <PeterT> | With the diff in the same directory as the source please |
| 00:33 | <Cadde> | I have, it complained |
| 00:33 | <Cadde> | one sec |
| 00:34 | <Cadde> | ah ok |
| 00:34 | <Cadde> | one sec |
| 00:34 | <PeterT> | Sure. |
| 00:34 | <PeterT> | Omg it's 12:34 |
| 00:34 | <PeterT> | way past my bedtime :-P |
| 00:34 | <Cadde> | patching file source.list |
| 00:34 | <Cadde> | Assertion failed: hunk, file ../patch-2.5.9-src/patch.c, line 354 |
| 00:35 | <PeterT> | that's a broken patch.exe |
| 00:36 | <Cadde> | It is isn't it ;) |
| 00:36 | <Cadde> | But i've tried with lots of different tools now |
| 00:36 | <PeterT> | http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-Applying-patches-on-Windows-p16031402.html |
| 00:36 | <Cadde> | Is there a way to set -p1 for tortoise? |
| 00:37 | <PeterT> | No, TortoiseSVN will only deal with SVN patches |
| 00:37 | * | terinjokes knows a PeterT |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | Oh shit... remembered i need to do somthing with the .diff |
| 00:38 | * | Cadde slaps forehead |
| 00:38 | <PeterT> | what's that? |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | patching file source.list |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | patching file src/command.cpp |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | patching file src/command_type.h |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | patching file src/lang/english.txt |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | patching file src/openttd.cpp |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | patching file src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | The next patch would create the file src/programmable_signals.cpp, |
| 00:38 | * | PeterT doesn't know a terinjokes |
| 00:38 | <Cadde> | Convert. |
| 00:39 | <Cadde> | I've been reading up a lot on the different tools. Forgot to convert from lf to crlf |
| 00:39 | <PeterT> | there ya go |
| 00:39 | <Cadde> | Thanks anyways... |
| 00:39 | <Cadde> | =) |
| 00:39 | <PeterT> | Good night |
| 00:39 | <Cadde> | Night |
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| 05:40 | <Terkhen> | hello |
| 05:50 | <Mazur> | Hi. |
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| 07:02 | <dihedral> | Yexo: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=870966#p870966 |
| 07:02 | <dihedral> | ^^ |
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| 07:03 | <Noldo> | :] |
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| 08:21 | <__ln__> | http://www.mikropc.net/kaikki_uutiset/article392451.ece |
| 08:21 | <SpComb> | goot screenshot |
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| 08:34 | <JakeGrimshaw> | hello |
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| 08:45 | <Mazur> | Hello, Jake. |
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| 09:08 | <Mazur> | Test. |
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| 09:34 | <Belugas> | hello |
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| 10:00 | <XeryusTC> | there is a minor bug in ottd's max vehicles code |
| 10:01 | <XeryusTC> | if you create a vehicle with a number lower than the max_<vehicletype> setting it is allowed even though you already have max_<vehicletype> amount of vehicles |
| 10:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you know where bugs go? |
| 10:02 | <XeryusTC> | yes, but i'm too lazy to register :P |
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| 11:07 | <Ammler> | Is the suse user online? Official suse rpms are fixed now... |
| 11:11 | <Devedse> | what is the advantage of not placing signals on every single tile? |
| 11:12 | <+glx> | increased average speed |
| 11:12 | <planetmaker> | also: how do you place a signal every tile, if you want to build a junction (the most critical part of networks)? |
| 11:13 | <SmatZ> | planetmaker: you can built just point-to -point tracks ;) |
| 11:13 | <planetmaker> | :-D |
| 11:13 | <Ammler> | nicer looking |
| 11:13 | <SmatZ> | actually, when I was new to TT, I used this stil |
| 11:13 | <SmatZ> | *style |
| 11:14 | <Devedse> | =] |
| 11:14 | <planetmaker> | well... but that's LOOONG ago in your stone-age TT-era ;-) |
| 11:14 | <Ammler> | if you use tunnels or bridges, the signal gap should be that length |
| 11:14 | <Ammler> | so trains keep constant flow |
| 11:14 | <planetmaker> | ^ |
| 11:15 | <Devedse> | so like this signal, not signal, signal, not signa |
| 11:15 | <planetmaker> | signal distance = size of largest gap due to junctions / tunnels / bridges / ... |
| 11:15 | <Ammler> | well, that is the min possible gap :-) |
| 11:15 | <Devedse> | what is the most used one :O |
| 11:15 | <Ammler> | but then you need to double bridges |
| 11:15 | <planetmaker> | it makes main line junctions interesting :-) |
| 11:16 | * | Devedse just learned not to start with transporting passengers :( |
| 11:16 | <planetmaker> | Devedse, the most used one seems to be *something*, but then most-used one probably is also a rectangular network with only p2p lines |
| 11:17 | <planetmaker> | I use usually signal distance = 2 |
| 11:17 | <Devedse> | i like mainlines etc ;P |
| 11:17 | <planetmaker> | but it implies BIG hubs |
| 11:18 | <Devedse> | yea i've made some |
| 11:18 | <Mazur> | PLanetmakar: Does that also mean you only make 1 tile (3 tile, including heads) bridges and tunnels, then? |
| 11:18 | <planetmaker> | Mazur, it doesn't. |
| 11:18 | <planetmaker> | But I double / tripple / quadruple the lines in those cases |
| 11:18 | <Mazur> | Ah. |
| 11:19 | <Mazur> | Length of tunnel/2 number of tunnels. |
| 11:20 | <Mazur> | Have you ever played the map of the Netherlands like that? |
| 11:20 | <Devedse> | does someone know a nice NON breakdown server? |
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| 11:20 | <planetmaker> | For Trainlength of 5: < 11 needs 2, 12 - 18 needs 3, 19 - 25 needs 4. |
| 11:20 | <@Rubidium> | Devedse: #openttdcoop stable |
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| 11:20 | <planetmaker> | Mazur, it depends upon the train length used. |
| 11:21 | <Mazur> | Is all this somewhere in the Wiki? Like in a section "Sage advice from experienced players."? |
| 11:21 | <Devedse> | brb |
| 11:21 | <planetmaker> | it's in our coop bot. Not sure whether or where it is in our wiki or blog |
| 11:22 | <planetmaker> | I just asked our coop bot and pasted his answer here ;-) |
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| 11:22 | <Mazur> | Ok. |
| 11:22 | <Mazur> | Tanks. |
| 11:22 | <Mazur> | I'll ask it myself then and log it, for reference. |
| 11:23 | <planetmaker> | it probably is *somewhere* |
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| 11:24 | <planetmaker> | http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Signal_gap |
| 11:24 | <Mazur> | Btw the Dutch map is eminently playable to start with passengers. I made my first billion without any goods. |
| 11:25 | <planetmaker> | I usually start two planes between two distant airports and then I start to build whatever I like ;-) |
| 11:25 | <planetmaker> | except if I start 1880 or so. |
| 11:25 | <Mazur> | Hm, I now have three browsers open with 9 openttd pages. |
| 11:26 | <Mazur> | :-) |
| 11:26 | <planetmaker> | only? |
| 11:26 | <planetmaker> | :-P |
| 11:26 | <Mazur> | >Well, I've _read_ and bookmarked a few more. |
| 11:27 | <planetmaker> | :-) My OpenTTD-related bookmarks have their own main category in my bookmarks list |
| 11:27 | <planetmaker> | and they probably fill an entire screen just writing their titles |
| 11:29 | <planetmaker> | but then among that list there are also bookmarks which are not quite obviously related to OpenTTD like some apple developer pages or mercurial howtos ;-) |
| 11:30 | <planetmaker> | I consider it related, though ;-) |
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| 12:08 | <SpComb> | bug: OpenTTD is very laggy when played over the internet using SSH X-Forwarding |
| 12:08 | <Mazur> | Seperate folder on my browser, too, in the visible part of the bookmarks. |
| 12:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | SpComb: bug: OpenTTD is very laggy without 2D hardware acceleration |
| 12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | SpComb: 640x480, 8bpp, 33fps makes ~80mbit |
| 12:11 | <Mazur> | Well, I've not planes yet, I've just set up an oil collection to a nearby sea-built refinery, a long goods shipline to a shore city, a coal run from an island to that same city and a passenger line there. |
| 12:12 | <SpComb> | it does updates smarter than that |
| 12:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | SpComb: yes, but it is still a lot, even over LAN |
| 12:12 | <SpComb> | seeing about 12mbit |
| 12:12 | <SpComb> | probably bottlenecked by my WLAN |
| 12:13 | <SpComb> | but latency is horrible, couldn't it just skip frames or something? :) |
| 12:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 12mbit sounds like a wlan speed, yes |
| 12:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | SpComb: maybe SDL has special stuff for x-forwarding? |
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| 12:16 | <@peter1138> | oh, you're actually forwarding openttd's display over ssh? lol |
| 12:16 | <theholyduck> | SpComb, ssh x forwarding |
| 12:16 | <theholyduck> | is ESPECIALLY stupid |
| 12:16 | <theholyduck> | + |
| 12:16 | <theholyduck> | encryption |
| 12:16 | <theholyduck> | = lolslow |
| 12:17 | <theholyduck> | vnc or something should be better |
| 12:17 | <theholyduck> | although |
| 12:17 | <theholyduck> | hacking up something with synergy, ffmpeg and mplayer |
| 12:17 | <theholyduck> | wouldnt be too hard |
| 12:17 | <theholyduck> | would be just as real time |
| 12:17 | <theholyduck> | if not more |
| 12:17 | <@Rubidium> | won't "mpeg" make the signals less legible? |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | Naw, ffmpeg + x264 in zero latency mode |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | should give massive compression |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | at real time speeds |
| 12:18 | <planetmaker> | nah. It's actually a nice test for all those people who want to out-source all calculations to the server and just stream the image ;-) |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | Rubidium, though to make this REALLY work, |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | you need to hack up something more directly |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | using libx264 |
| 12:18 | <theholyduck> | some x11 libraries |
| 12:19 | <theholyduck> | and a custom frontend |
| 12:19 | <theholyduck> | writing the code that glues them all together shouldnt be that complicated |
| 12:19 | <theholyduck> | not really |
| 12:19 | <theholyduck> | i think the x264 lead dev did something like this for low latency lan fps gaming |
| 12:19 | <theholyduck> | as a local test |
| 12:20 | <theholyduck> | Rubidium, massive compression at the same video quality level that is |
| 12:20 | <theholyduck> | http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/ related post |
| 12:21 | <@Rubidium> | so it is lossless? |
| 12:22 | <theholyduck> | Rubidium, you can do lossless encoding sure |
| 12:22 | <theholyduck> | but much more efficient is to just go for transparency |
| 12:22 | <theholyduck> | the human eye and brain is far from perfect |
| 12:22 | <theholyduck> | so you can at very low bitrates actually |
| 12:22 | <theholyduck> | make something that looks lossless |
| 12:22 | <theholyduck> | to the human eye, even with side by side comparisons to the actual lossless |
| 12:23 | <theholyduck> | "No longer does 200ms seem out of reach. If anything, it’s now far more than we need. Because with –tune zerolatency, single-frame VBV, and intra refresh, x264 can achieve end-to-end latency (not including transport) of under 10 milliseconds for an 800×600 video stream. And it’s all open source." |
| 12:23 | <@Rubidium> | just make a proof-of-concept with all signal types and then we'll determine whether the block signals (pre, combo, exit) are still easily distinguishable |
| 12:24 | <theholyduck> | Rubidium, hmm, intresting. |
| 12:24 | <@Rubidium> | even JPEG with low compression makes a mess of that |
| 12:24 | <theholyduck> | Rubidium, sure, but h264 as a still image encoder |
| 12:24 | <theholyduck> | is actually about 50% more efficient |
| 12:24 | <theholyduck> | than jpeg :P |
| 12:24 | <theholyduck> | and since we have lan bandwidths |
| 12:25 | <@Rubidium> | just making the white a bit more yellow and the yellow a bit more white and you'll have a yellowish white/whitish yellow that you can't distinguish anymore |
| 12:25 | <theholyduck> | we can use way more than jpeg levels of filesizes |
| 12:25 | <theholyduck> | Rubidium, well, the BIGGEST problem there :P |
| 12:25 | <theholyduck> | might be colorspaces |
| 12:25 | <theholyduck> | on the other hand, |
| 12:25 | <theholyduck> | openttd only uses 8bit colors anyway |
| 12:25 | <theholyduck> | so its not really a problem |
| 12:26 | <@peter1138> | lossy compression is no doubt fine for an FPS game |
| 12:26 | <theholyduck> | peter1138, lossy is amount of details though |
| 12:26 | <@Rubidium> | for video I'll believe you it isn't that noticable, but the same holds for photos and JPEG. Yet with OpenTTD JPEG makes it impossible to distinguish the signals |
| 12:26 | <theholyduck> | colors are raly changed :P |
| 12:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <theholyduck> the human eye and brain is far from perfect <-- that's a bad argument. JPEG and all related stuff cannot (by design) handle straight lines, so they are absolutely the wrong choice for anything computer generated |
| 12:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you might get something better out of wavelet transformation, but most graphics cards don't have hardware acceleration for that |
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| 12:27 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, protip |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | wavelets are WAY more unsuited |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | for straight lines |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | video |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | and images |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | than dct formats |
| 12:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there's worse than "absolutely unsuited"? |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | yes :P |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | take jpeg2k for instance |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | its a wavelet format |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | its way more computionally intensive than jpeg |
| 12:28 | <theholyduck> | its larger filesizes than jpeg |
| 12:29 | <theholyduck> | and it archives way higher PSNR than jpeg |
| 12:29 | <theholyduck> | BUT. |
| 12:29 | <theholyduck> | in actual human testing |
| 12:29 | <theholyduck> | jpeg2k looks worse at the same filesizes |
| 12:29 | <theholyduck> | compared to jpeg |
| 12:29 | <theholyduck> | as in, the next generation, wavelet format, actually looks worse to human eyes |
| 12:30 | <theholyduck> | than the old, outdated dct format that is jpeg |
| 12:30 | <theholyduck> | "outdated" :p |
| 12:30 | <theholyduck> | dct consitently outperforms wavelets across the board |
| 12:30 | <theholyduck> | the only problem with dct formats is that they create "blockyness" in your images and videos |
| 12:30 | <theholyduck> | so you have to deblock on display |
| 12:34 | <theholyduck> | i'll just have to boot up my debian system to get some decent ffmpeg setup for x11grab |
| 12:34 | * | theholyduck brb's |
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| 12:37 | <theholyduck> | thereee |
| 12:38 | <theholyduck> | want me to test with opengfx or original? |
| 12:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: it |
| 12:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 's a matter of which pictures you use as sample |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | i'll use a propper live cliop |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | *clip |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | anything else would be cheating :P |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | i'll encode a 20 sec sample or something |
| 12:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | JPEG is a brilliant choice for anything "natural" (photos, videos, etc.) |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | and upload to mediafire :P |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | png is great for low colors/computer stuff |
| 12:39 | <theholyduck> | since its lossless |
| 12:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: but it's awful for anything screenshot-y |
| 12:40 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, png isnt |
| 12:40 | <theholyduck> | png is great because its lossless |
| 12:40 | <theholyduck> | sure this means it can be huge |
| 12:40 | <theholyduck> | but no detail is lost |
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| 12:43 | <Sacro> | use indexed png |
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| 12:45 | <yuriks> | what is theholyduck doing here? |
| 12:46 | <ccfreak2k> | Use optipng |
| 12:50 | <__ln__> | @seen the_mac-owner_from_denmark |
| 12:50 | <@DorpsGek> | __ln__: I have not seen the_mac-owner_from_denmark. |
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| 12:55 | <theholyduck> | working on eet, etc |
| 12:57 | <@Rubidium> | optipng doesn't do much on the PNGs OpenTTD's screenshot produces |
| 12:57 | <@Rubidium> | I've tried most of those tools and neither could improve it by more that 0.5%; actually zip compresses those files better than 7z/lzma |
| 13:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: btw. since openttd is 8bpp, png screenshots are usually smaller than jpeg screenshots |
| 13:00 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, yeah, didnt i say, png is great for low color stuff |
| 13:00 | <theholyduck> | anime, manga, most computer related screenshots, etc |
| 13:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so what we need is a lossless video codec optimised for fast processing, possibly png based |
| 13:01 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, no we dont :P |
| 13:01 | <theholyduck> | lossless is overkill |
| 13:01 | <theholyduck> | though, i'll see how large the x264 lossless encode of mine turns out |
| 13:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, openttd really needs lossless |
| 13:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: you get eye cancer from openttd jpeg-screenshots |
| 13:04 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, no, you only need VISUALLY lossless |
| 13:04 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, for images you might need lossless :P |
| 13:04 | <theholyduck> | for video, you dont |
| 13:05 | <theholyduck> | hmm, seems x11 grab is alot slower than i remember it being though |
| 13:05 | <theholyduck> | oh wait.. |
| 13:05 | <theholyduck> | i'm using my broken drivers. |
| 13:05 | <theholyduck> | well then, the video will have to be lolnon smooth |
| 13:05 | <theholyduck> | the problem we were looking at was colors anyway |
| 13:05 | <theholyduck> | colors and simelarity |
| 13:09 | <theholyduck> | well. as it turns out |
| 13:09 | <theholyduck> | lossless 640x480 for 20 secs |
| 13:09 | <theholyduck> | with x264 |
| 13:10 | <theholyduck> | with the FAST x264 setting |
| 13:10 | <theholyduck> | 434 kb |
| 13:10 | <theholyduck> | though, it was a almost entirely static image |
| 13:10 | <theholyduck> | no trains or nothing :p |
| 13:10 | <theholyduck> | just date changing |
| 13:12 | <theholyduck> | with visually lossless settings, i lowered that to 230kB |
| 13:14 | <theholyduck> | there, took a png screenshot of both |
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| 13:15 | <theholyduck> | now to upload them :p |
| 13:15 | <theholyduck> | intrestingly |
| 13:15 | <theholyduck> | both single png screenshots saved by gimp. |
| 13:15 | <theholyduck> | with highest compression on |
| 13:16 | <theholyduck> | are larger than the 20 second video file |
| 13:16 | <theholyduck> | they're from :p |
| 13:16 | <theholyduck> | either way, moving on |
| 13:17 | <theholyduck> | infact, the "lossy" video clip |
| 13:17 | <theholyduck> | is small enough to be playable on dual line isdn |
| 13:17 | <theholyduck> | live |
| 13:17 | <theholyduck> | http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5953/lossless.png lossless mode |
| 13:18 | <theholyduck> | http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8034/lossy.png lossy mode |
| 13:18 | <theholyduck> | the lossy pic compresses alot worse with png due to added noise |
| 13:18 | <theholyduck> | but i dare you to try and spot it :P |
| 13:18 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium etc,etc |
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| 13:23 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, so i figure with a bit of hacking, some non broken drivers, you coud play openttd, losslessly with x264 over the lan, and with invisible lossyness |
| 13:23 | <theholyduck> | over the internet |
| 13:23 | <theholyduck> | even if your internet was lolslow |
| 13:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: please, go ahead, fiddle the output pipe of the openttd graphics buffer into the x264 converter, as a "video driver" or something... |
| 13:25 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, can you even tell the difference between the lossy and the lossless? |
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| 13:25 | <theholyduck> | as i said, lossless video formats are overated provided the lossy encoding is good enough |
| 13:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: create a file src/video/x264_v.cpp |
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| 13:26 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, heh, well i dont really see the use for it. |
| 13:26 | <theholyduck> | i was just pointing out, that x forwarding is NOT the way to even try and play a game over a network |
| 13:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: lots of people wanted "recording" feature in the past... |
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| 13:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ("problem" is you can't handle any input this way... |
| 13:29 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: frosch * r19616 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Increase transparency of 'Extract' by passing also the number of used bits. |
| 13:30 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, x11grab is a bit too "highlevel" to be fast aswell |
| 13:30 | <theholyduck> | in reality, you want something more low level for the recording bit |
| 13:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | theholyduck: that's why you should hook directly into openttd's video output buffer |
| 13:30 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, heh :P |
| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | Eddi|zuHause, the biggest problem with doing this though |
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| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | is that you would get open source puritans on your neck |
| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | or in this case |
| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | MY neck |
| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | for not using theora |
| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | ofcourse, theres 1 very good reason to not use theora |
| 13:31 | <theholyduck> | as it turns out, its rubbish |
| 13:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | does that actually matter? |
| 13:32 | <theholyduck> | last comparison i saw, to get the same video quality as x264 even in fast settings |
| 13:32 | <theholyduck> | theora needed 400% of the bitrate |
| 13:32 | <theholyduck> | and people are touting it "the future of internet video" |
| 13:32 | <theholyduck> | or whatever |
| 13:32 | <theholyduck> | ;( |
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| 13:34 | <yuriks> | theholyduck: is there even any difference in the pixel output of lossy and lossless versions? |
| 13:35 | <yuriks> | theholyduck: and you sure lossless is actually lossless? |
| 13:35 | <yuriks> | the icons look a bit mushy, but it may be just me |
| 13:35 | <theholyduck> | yuriks, well, colorspace conversion |
| 13:35 | <theholyduck> | the lossless is definitly lossless |
| 13:35 | <theholyduck> | but its still yuv 420p |
| 13:35 | <theholyduck> | and openttd is rgb |
| 13:35 | <yuriks> | ah, yeah |
| 13:35 | <theholyduck> | so there is bound to be some loss :P |
| 13:36 | <yuriks> | can't x264 encode rgb? |
| 13:36 | <frosch123> | did dyou maybe confuse the filenames, my browser tells me the lossy file is twice as big as the other |
| 13:36 | <yuriks> | frosch123: lossy is bigger because of noise |
| 13:36 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r19617 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: |
| 13:36 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: -Fix [desync debug]: log the sync state only once per day, not multiple times when paused with _date_fract = 0 |
| 13:36 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: -Change [desync debug]: check the sync state from the command stream and make sure no unknown input is encountered |
| 13:36 | <theholyduck> | yuriks, h264 is a yuv only format |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | and it doesnt support yuv 422 or yuv 444 yet |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | x264 that is |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | frosch123, it is :P |
| 13:37 | <frosch123> | oh, i thought it was about png comression |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | the lossy file is twice as big and then some |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | because theres extra data noise |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | in the lossy version |
| 13:37 | <theholyduck> | the lossless version is clean |
| 13:37 | <yuriks> | theholyduck: h264 only supports 4:2:0? yuck |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | yuriks, no |
| 13:38 | <yuriks> | that's pretty awuful |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | x264 only does |
| 13:38 | <yuriks> | x264* |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | yuriks, not really |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | its a VIDEO encoder |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | almost all non pro video |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | is 4:2:0 |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | infact, all consumer stuff is :P |
| 13:38 | <yuriks> | well, yeah, not really, but it's awful for pixel stuff =P |
| 13:38 | <yuriks> | that's what I meant to mean |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | yuriks, well 422 and 444 support is comming |
| 13:38 | <theholyduck> | its in the gsoc project list |
| 13:39 | <theholyduck> | its just not here yet |
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| 13:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the biggest problem with a "video" video driver is probably getting a (portable) way of creating a window for video playback that can give mouse and keyboard input as feedback |
| 13:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | piping the data into the video conversion library should be fairly trivial |
| 13:45 | <@peter1138> | custom protocol that tells the client what sprites to draw |
| 13:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: translators * r19618 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: slovak - 6 changes by keso53 |
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| 13:57 | <Wolf01> | hello |
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| 14:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: so basically a "thin client" that has all the grfs locally? |
| 14:09 | <@peter1138> | yeah |
| 14:09 | <@peter1138> | pointless |
| 14:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's basically a special case of multithreading |
| 14:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it *could* work but there are some serious issues, as people will want to join a multiplayer server like that... |
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| 14:13 | <Belugas> | FUCK FUCK FUCK |
| 14:13 | <Belugas> | cannot use a blob as a calculate field |
| 14:13 | <Belugas> | calculated |
| 14:14 | <SpComb> | are you trying to do string manipulation on a blob field in a query? |
| 14:15 | <__ln__> | Wolf01: 'night |
| 14:15 | <SpComb> | blobs are for things like images; you're not supposed to touch their contents from within SQL |
| 14:15 | <SpComb> | just opaque binary things |
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| 14:15 | <Belugas> | a query, indeed, with a blob field. adding stuff on the blob |
| 14:15 | <Belugas> | not allowed by delphi |
| 14:15 | <Belugas> | so far |
| 14:16 | <SpComb> | delphi database? |
| 14:16 | <Belugas> | but not WITHIN the sql |
| 14:16 | <Belugas> | interbase |
| 14:16 | <Belugas> | and i CAN add stuff on a BLOB within SQL :) |
| 14:16 | <Belugas> | but it's not what i need here |
| 14:17 | <Belugas> | tweo type of blob: text (memo) and binary (images) |
| 14:17 | <Belugas> | i am using the first one |
| 14:17 | <Belugas> | in this case, at least |
| 14:20 | <SpComb> | upgrade to something other than interbase/delphi? : |
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| 14:21 | <@peter1138> | silly suggestion |
| 14:23 | <Belugas> | need i say more? |
| 14:23 | <SpComb> | entirely reasonable |
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| 14:26 | <Belugas> | "hey boss! would you like to throw 10 years of coding through the window?" |
| 14:26 | <SpComb> | ya |
| 14:26 | <@peter1138> | not in the world of commercial software with huge investments in code, short deadlines and expensive accreditation |
| 14:26 | <SpComb> | don't be so conservative |
| 14:29 | <Wolf01> | Belugas, that's the same thing I said the last year after 2 months of porting the whole project from collections to objects with recursion and a lot of very useful functions |
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| 14:41 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r19619 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix (r19618): [desync debug] inserting the "join" pause could cause a crash as some command data was not properly initialised |
| 14:41 | <frosch123> | now translators already break the desync debugging :p |
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| 14:45 | <Belugas> | Wolf01, technically, it CAN be done, but it would require a very massive investment of time |
| 14:45 | <Belugas> | we have ROUGHTLY more than a million lines of code |
| 14:45 | * | andythenorth thinks about making something |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | what shall I make? |
| 14:46 | <Belugas> | SpComb, peter1138 knows what he's talking about, we're doing ROUGHLY the sme thing in ROUGHLY the same type of pressure/NOW environmemnt |
| 14:47 | <Wolf01> | I'm starting to make something for my new Omnia 2 |
| 14:47 | * | andythenorth loses money when our colo is taken offline by fibre failures :( |
| 14:48 | <amalloy> | where can i find an explanation of how PBS works? the wiki just says "reserve a path to a safe exit", and i'm not clear on what that means |
| 14:49 | <amalloy> | does it actually mean exit signals, or any signal? does the whole block need to be cordoned off with path signals, or can just some of them be paths or what |
| 14:50 | <Hirundo> | Basically, place a path signal wherever you'd want a train to wait |
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| 14:50 | <SpComb> | Belugas: did I tell you about the full OpenTTD rewrite in Python I started yesterday? |
| 14:50 | <frosch123> | amalloy: http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/signal/yapp.php?lang=en&filter=ottd |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | boats? |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | trucks? |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | industries? |
| 14:53 | <amalloy> | thanks. i'm reading that, and it looks perfect so far |
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| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | meh, I need to add four wagons to four identical trains with shared orders |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | how dull |
| 14:54 | <amalloy> | oh, ha, apparently i was at the end already. i mostly get it now, i think. is there ever a scenario where i would want to put non-path signals inside of a path-delimited block? |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r19620 /trunk/src/network/ (network_command.cpp network_internal.h network_server.cpp): |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: -Fix: desync when a command is received and in the queue while a client starts |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: joining, i.e. save the game state. This can happen in two ways: with frame_freq |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: > 1 a command received in a previous frame might not be executed yet or when a |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: command is received in the same frame as the join but before the savegame is |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: made. In both cases the joining client would not get all commands to get in-sync |
| 14:55 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: with the server (and the other clients). |
| 14:56 | <Wolf01> | gah 1.5GB of SDK and other related things to download... |
| 14:56 | <fjb> | andythenorth: Replacing or adding wagons with regular expressions would be fun, but a nightmare to program it. |
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| 14:57 | <Belugas> | enjoy the challenge, SpComb :) |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | fjb: I've never learnt regex :o |
| 14:59 | <fonsinchen> | Congratiulations rubidium. I guess this was a lot of work. |
| 15:00 | <@Rubidium> | thanks... but it doesn't seem to be the one that hit the ottdcoop stable server a few days ago |
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| 15:10 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: frosch * r19621 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Remove direct usage of magic 'p1's in build vehicle commands. |
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| 15:19 | <Cadde> | Good morning :P |
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| 15:22 | * | andythenorth plays the game instead of coding anything |
| 15:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: code pre-WWI german engines :) |
| 15:22 | <Wolf01> | me too... it's really boring to stare at the download bars |
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| 15:26 | <dihedral> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=871116#p871116 <- "10. C++, if it still on C ))." :-P |
| 15:26 | <@Rubidium> | please don't link topics I don't read out of efficiency |
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| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r19622 /branches/1.0/src/network/ (4 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: |
| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: Desync when a command is received and in the queue while a client starts |
| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: joining, i.e. save the game state. This can happen in two ways: with frame_freq |
| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: > 1 a command received in a previous frame might not be executed yet or when a |
| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: command is received in the same frame as the join but before the savegame is |
| 15:31 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: made. In both cases the joining client would not get all commands to get in-sync |
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| 15:46 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, ... |
| 15:47 | <@peter1138> | "plays" ...? |
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| 15:47 | <andythenorth> | controversial |
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| 15:48 | <andythenorth> | http://www.thefreedictionary.com/play |
| 15:49 | <andythenorth> | To occupy oneself in amusement, sport, or other recreation: children playing with toys. |
| 15:49 | <@Rubidium> | but... you are "coding" a network |
| 15:50 | * | andythenorth wonders if "play" is antonym or synonym for "code" |
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| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | coding newgrf is a meta-game |
| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | especially for industries |
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| 16:00 | * | andythenorth needs a decent narrow gauge set. 60 year old steam engines in 1980 don't cut it |
| 16:00 | <andythenorth> | nice smoke though :P |
| 16:01 | <SekiSelu> | Coding newgrf is a good way to go insane XD |
| 16:05 | <Belugas> | i would not exactly say that |
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| 16:06 | <SekiSelu> | I'm trying to understand Action2, VarAction2, and VarAction2Advanced. I don't quite get how to tell the difference -.- |
| 16:08 | <Belugas> | trying to understand the system with action2 is NOT really the easiest way :) |
| 16:08 | <SekiSelu> | Action2 is what I need though :D |
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| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | oops |
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| 16:49 | * | andythenorth needs more airports :| |
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| 17:00 | <Belugas> | YEAH!!! HOME!!!!! HERE WE GOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!1 |
| 17:00 | <Belugas> | bye bye |
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| 17:32 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r19623 /branches/1.0/ (11 files in 5 dirs): |
| 17:32 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: |
| 17:32 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: Company related graphs were not updated correctly after changing the company colour [FS#3763] (r19615) |
| 17:32 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash when opening a savegame with a waypoint from around 0.4.0 [FS#3756] (r19612) |
| 17:32 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: Presence of online content was not properly updated after download due to duplicate slashes in the path (r19600) |
| 17:32 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Setting industry prop 0x24 to 0 caused empty station names (r19590) |
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| 17:40 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r19624 /branches/1.0/src/network/ (6 files in 2 dirs): |
| 17:40 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: |
| 17:40 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: Possible invalid read when server moves client to spectators before he finishes joining [FS#3755] (r19613) |
| 17:40 | <CIA-6> | OpenTTD: - Fix: Improve joining behaviour; kicking clients when entering passwords that was just cleared, 'connection lost' for people failing the password (r19610, r19609, r19608, r19607, r19606) |
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| 17:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm... do i have to worry about "195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 47772712"? |
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| 18:48 | <Terkhen> | good night |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed Apr 14 00:00:03 2010 |
