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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-17

---Logopened Sat Apr 17 00:00:23 2010
00:00<Nite_Owl>the joys of the puny minded
00:00-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:01<Asheron>Thats the other one NO
00:01<Asheron>peer,
00:01-!-ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
00:01<Asheron>Peer = TCP/ IP
00:02<Nite_Owl>I must fly - later all
00:02<Asheron>later NO
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00:07<Asheron>howdy Noob
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00:11<_NoobCp_>Uhuh
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00:26<elmz>are pre-signalled PBS planned/in the making/available?
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02:03<@Rubidium>elmz: no
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02:09<dihedral>lol? over 9000 brutefoce attempts last night....
02:09<dihedral>why on earth they always use an invalid user i do not know!
02:09<NoobCp>What's that
02:10<dihedral>one ip tried to ssh into my vserver
02:10<dihedral>over 7.5k times from one ip :-P
02:11<NoobCp>Weren't 45 deg turns supposed to be kind to train speed
02:12<ccfreak2k>Yes because there's no shallower turns.
02:12<NoobCp>I must have misread and memorised they have no effect
02:12<ccfreak2k>However, if you have two 45 degree turns close enough to each other, a train of some length will slow down.
02:14<NoobCp>13 tiles of straight should be enough for a 24 car train...
02:15<@Rubidium>dihedral: there's a thing called a "bot" that does such things. They apparantly aren't distracted by not knowing valid user names for your system
02:15<NoobCp>Yeah, that's it, I must have forgotten the 45 deg speed limit
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02:20-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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02:23*Alberth orders one breakfast
02:32<terinjokes>Alberth: sharing?
02:33<Alberth>seems like a good plan
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03:16<andythenorth>morning
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03:23<@Rubidium>Albert: do you deliver here too?
03:23<nighthawk_c_m>mornin
03:25<NoobCp>Excellent service seems to be rather hard to achieve
03:29<Alberth>RB: Still waiting for mine to arrive
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04:20<NoobCp>Any clue if the gradual loading setting affects the time it takes to load cargo?
04:22<@Rubidium>it does
04:22<@Rubidium>whether for good or for worse depends on the characteristics of the loaded vehicle
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05:05<Terkhen>good morning
05:05<Jupix>mornin
05:05<NoobCp>Aww, that's evil!
05:06<Jupix>what is?
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05:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19647 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#3768]: trains loaded above the original IDs didn't have a default railtypelabel assigned to them, causing them to be unavailable
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05:33<NoobCp>Jupix the loading speed just mentioned before
05:33<NoobCp>Hmm, getting max passenger rationg for a town is tricky
05:34<NoobCp>Trains in a city are like elephants in a spacecraft fabrication lab
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06:00<andythenorth>So
06:01-!-lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cb6a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:03<andythenorth>I have an awesome little fishing harbour industry
06:03<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=845016#p845016
06:03<andythenorth>it looks nice built in towns
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06:03<andythenorth>however, because I wanted to remove the fish cargo, it produces food
06:03<andythenorth>this adds up to some eye candy, but dumb gameplay
06:04<andythenorth>food is produced directly in town, which is the only place to take food. (and food is a pointless cargo anyway in temperate)
06:05<andythenorth>so I am not sure what to do ??
06:05<andythenorth>:P
06:05<Doorslammer>I dunno, food and fish seems like quite an important way of temperate life :P
06:07<andythenorth>surf n turf
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06:09<@Rubidium>Doorslammer: no, here in the temperate climates we prosper when we get a bus going through 3 bus stops every 20 days
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06:10<andythenorth>we don't eat
06:10<andythenorth>we just ride buses for sustenance
06:10<andythenorth>a strange life, but we make the best of it
06:10*andythenorth wonders how a scenario scripting framework might work
06:13<Terkhen>probably like a NoAI script
06:13<andythenorth>imagine if goals could be scripted (e.g. 'grow city x to 20k inhabitants by 2010; deliver 3 million tonnes of coal, generate £20m profit by 1937 etc)
06:13<andythenorth>so the 'ends' would be scriptable, but what about the 'means'
06:13<andythenorth>?
06:14<Terkhen>oh, I thought you meant a scenario editing script :)
06:14<andythenorth>Railroad Tycoon 3 scenarios also control industry placement, acceptance, available trains etc
06:14<andythenorth>seems like that would be the proper domain of newgrf?
06:17<Pikka>andy, you transport food (and goods) between towns. such is the way of commerce.
06:17<andythenorth>true
06:17*andythenorth facepalms
06:17<Pikka>awesome harbour graphics, btw :D
06:17<andythenorth>the FIRS brewery and bakery are also in towns, so my 'problem' with the harbour is dumb
06:17<andythenorth>and thanks :)
06:18<andythenorth>they're really very simple, just a lot of work dealing with slopes and foundations
06:18-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@93.21.14.194] has joined #openttd
06:18<andythenorth>and the fishing boat is from Mr DanMacK
06:19*andythenorth ponders scripted goals some more
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06:20<andythenorth>so some of us think the game isn't really a 'game' but a trainset, yes / no?
06:20<andythenorth>but it would still be nice to have some purpose, like a narrative 'try for this' yes / no?
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06:23<Doorslammer>I know a few people who run a trainset with waybill operation
06:23<Doorslammer>So, I dunno, its more an interpretation than a set rule
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06:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19648 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp:
06:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3760]: a client would not be properly moved when moved while joining,
06:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: e.g. when entering a company's password. This caused the client to be in the
06:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: wrong company (according to the rest of the clients) and the client being kicked
06:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: on the first command
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06:56<andythenorth>hmm
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06:56<andythenorth>a 'goals' script shouldn't depend on specific newgrfs
06:56<andythenorth>newgrfs might not be available, or the grfid might change
06:56<planetmaker>andythenorth: I think that depends
06:57<andythenorth>'recommended' newgrfs would work
06:57<planetmaker>certain things just might be possible with certain newgrf only. After all both is a programmed piece which need to understand eachother
06:58<planetmaker>oh, good day also ;-)
06:58<SpComb>goals scripts /are/ newgrfs?
06:59-!-DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd
06:59<andythenorth>relation of goals scripts to scenarios?
06:59<andythenorth>seems like a scenario could embed goals, but goals should also be possible without requiring a scenario
07:00<planetmaker>andythenorth: I agree
07:01<planetmaker>SpComb: they are an idea, nothing more
07:02<planetmaker>actually it might be an idea to allow a similar interface for goal scripts like for AI and NewGRF
07:02<planetmaker>they might have dependencies in the form of requiring certain AIs and / or NewGRF being active
07:02<planetmaker>similar to the lib dependencies which AI have already
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07:04<andythenorth>I don' know much about AI but the requirements look broadly similar
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07:06<planetmaker>Yexo: what would I actually need to do in order to interface the NML like adding a binary to /usr/bin ?
07:06<planetmaker>(like grfcodec?)
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07:16<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19649 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/strgen_tables.h):
07:16<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Add: plural rule for Maltese
07:16<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix: plural rule for Irish
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07:18<Nazcafan>hello
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07:19<Nazcafan>is there a way to program autoreplace only for trains that do get old?
07:20<frosch123>andythenorth: your fishing harbour glitches
07:21<Ammler>Nazcafan: that is autorenew
07:21<Nazcafan>Ammler, how do I do that?
07:21<Ammler>advanced settings
07:21<Ammler>wiki -> autorenew
07:22<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/FIRSGlitch.png <- the part of the ship which extents the bounding box glitches when scrolling etc
07:22<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19650 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/maltese.txt: -Add: stub for a Maltese translation
07:23<Macha>I've nearly exclusively played temperate up to this point. What are the major differences I need to know for playing artic?
07:23<Jolteon>It sucks
07:23<Jolteon>/end
07:24<Nazcafan>Ammler, I want to replace the trains with newer ones, the old models are not available anymore
07:24<frosch123>Macha: towns above snowline need food to grow
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07:28<Ammler>Nazcafan: and what exactly can't autoreplace do?
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07:29<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: it replaces all vehicles, not only the old ones
07:29<Ammler>ah, I see, so not possible, I guess...
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07:29<Eddi|zuHause>Nazcafan: you can add all old vehicles to a group, and then enable autoreplace only for that group
07:30<Ammler>maybe there is a conditional order for it?
07:32<Ammler>why doesn't a town grow with 4 small s-bahn stations?
07:32<Ammler>the whole town it catched and rating is >=very good
07:33<Alberth>give the town some money
07:33<Alberth>(don't know when a town grows though)
07:33<Ammler>with buses, it would already be bigger :-)
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07:35<Eddi|zuHause>stations must be serviced every 20 days, afaik
07:37<Ammler>yeah, 4 rail stations in a 200 habitants town with 4 trains... :-)
07:37<Ammler>so they are serviced almost daily
07:38<Jolteon>TTD would rock if it used real time
07:38<Jolteon>as opposed to just days.
07:39<Ammler>Jolteon: try dailength patch
07:39*Jolteon shall do.
07:39<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19651 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3745]: when a company is sold, move connected clients to spectators
07:42<@Rubidium>Jolteon: but then it has to run the whole day and when you load a savegame it has to wait till the right realtime before it can continue again
07:42<Alberth>Jolteon: then you can just about play a single game in your entire life.
07:43<Jolteon>o
07:43<Jolteon>not what I mean.
07:43<Jolteon>I mean simulate real time within the game.
07:43<Jolteon>Not use ACTUAL real time.
07:43<Jolteon>That'd suck more penis than I do.
07:43<Jolteon>which is a lot, being gay.
07:43<NoobCp>Or, everything is accelerated and vehicles move around like they have warp drive
07:44<NoobCp>A blur
07:44<Alberth>NoobCp: we might just as well not draw them at all :p
07:44<NoobCp>Exactly, a cargo line is a line on screen...
07:44<NoobCp>ha ;D
07:45<NoobCp>with properties like capacity and frequency and stuff, all this micromanagement detail becoming something nonsensical........
07:47<NoobCp>I wonder if anyone could develop Orbiter into an MMO trade simulator...
07:48<NoobCp>However twisting of the universe would be requred to allow flexible time gameplay
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07:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19652 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: RandomRange() is used for bigger ranges in many cases, so generally extent it to handle 32 bits.
07:50<andythenorth>frosch123: hmm, so it does.
07:50<andythenorth>that boat looks like it's out of position though
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08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19653 /branches/1.0/ (12 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: RandomRange() is used for bigger ranges in many cases, so generally extent it to handle 32 bits (r19652)
08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: When a company is sold, move connected clients to spectators [FS#3745] (r19651)
08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: A client would not be properly moved when moved while joining, e.g. when
08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: entering a company's password. This caused the client to be in the wrong company
08:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: (according to the rest of the clients) and the client being kicked on the first
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08:43<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.titanic-magazin.de/uploads/pics/0416-island.jpg
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08:46<Eddi|zuHause>(alternate explanation: the ashes come from all the money that was burned in iceland)
08:47<NoobCp>Hrm
08:48<NoobCp>Big smoke
08:48<OwenS>My HDD finally arrived :-)
08:48<OwenS>And, for the second time in 30 days...
08:48<OwenS> 2 8 18 1 spare rebuilding /dev/sdb2
08:48<OwenS> State : clean, degraded, recovering
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08:57*Rubidium awaits the... oh shit it copied the new disk over the old one
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause>:p
09:13<nighthawk_c_m>lol
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09:22<RossMills>Hey guys, I'm just wondering if you could help me with an OpenTTD question. I'm trying to set up a server at work so that we can play at lunchtimes and leave it running during the day. I want the server to run for about a month, and then reset. But I want it to go from 1940 to 2050 in that month. Is there any way to slow the days down without slowing the actual movement of vehicles, etc?
09:22<RossMills>Slowing the day ticks, as it were.
09:22<+glx>no
09:22<KenjiE20>not with patching
09:23<RossMills>Fair enough, any idea if that might come into a future update?
09:23<+glx>very hard to do it right
09:25<nighthawk_c_m>there is apatch for the day length of an ingame day, basically the game uses ticks, and the patch multiplies the amount of ticks untill it considers a day over
09:26<RossMills>Would each user need to patch that, or just the server?
09:26<nighthawk_c_m>Each user
09:26<RossMills>Thanks
09:26<Ammler>RossMills: why do you want it so slow?
09:26<nighthawk_c_m>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46399 this is the thread to a patch set that includes the day length change
09:26<Ammler>I mean, you can also just paly until year 10000
09:26<RossMills>I would assume that a constantly running server would be over far sooner than a month, and I'd want to spread out the upgrades to tech over that time.
09:27<RossMills>Otherwise they're all available day one
09:27<KenjiE20>I you're only running at lunch
09:27<KenjiE20>you could just set min_active_clients
09:27<nighthawk_c_m>well - be aware that the server alway spauses when no client is connected I think
09:27<nighthawk_c_m>except that can be modified
09:27<KenjiE20>so it pauses when no one is on
09:27<RossMills>The server would be running all the time, people might log in after work too.
09:27<nighthawk_c_m>jepp that what i ment
09:27<RossMills>Oh so it can pause?
09:27<RossMills>Nice
09:28<nighthawk_c_m>yepp
09:28<NoobCp>Warning about stability with high station spread still applies? I wonder how all those coop games work out heh...
09:28<Ammler>RossMills: OpenTTD isn't really a game for break times
09:29<nighthawk_c_m>I would appreciate a bit bigger station spread, and something I noticed in FIRS - oil Plattforms grow everywhere ^
09:29<+glx>it never been a stability warning but a performance one
09:29<Ammler>if you start, you have quite fast done an hour or more
09:29<NoobCp>k
09:30<RossMills>Ammler - This is mostly an experiment, a fair few people signed up on the office's newsgroup
09:31<Terkhen>nighthawk_c_m: bigger than 64x64?
09:31<RossMills>Yeah, it would keep going over multiple days
09:32<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19654 /trunk/src/ (24 files): -Codechange: Use Extract<> in more places.
09:32<nighthawk_c_m>Hmm... last time 65 would have been sufficient as via Station walking I missed just one OIl rig in a Netork test
09:33<nighthawk_c_m>Probably anything bexond 64x64 is way too large anyways - I still have to build such a station
09:33<RossMills>Station walking?
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09:36<Alberth>probably build a platform; while not walked_enough: build another platform and join with previous platform; remove previous platform; endwhile
09:36<Alberth>s/bly/bly:/
09:37<+glx>useless sed ;)
09:38<Alberth>s/probably/probably:/ better?
09:38<+glx>or stupid smiley
09:38<+glx>yeh stupid smiley
09:38<RossMills>Thanks guys
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09:38<NoobCp>64 tile trains? Hmmm....
09:39<Alberth>stupid irc client trying to guess when a smiley is used :)
09:39<NoobCp>emoticons are the devil
09:39<Alberth>yeah, I disabled them
09:40<NoobCp>I enable them so that I can send smileys hopefully unaffected by such heresy ;P
09:40<NoobCp>Platforms shorter than train had a negative effect on loading right?
09:40<Alberth>it works until you start discussing pieces of code :)
09:41<Alberth>yes, longer trains than the platforms are really bad for loading speed
09:42<@Rubidium>Asian smileys are so much better (*^.^*)
09:43<@Rubidium>٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ <- or those :)
09:43<+glx>nice
09:43<planetmaker>:-)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>err... what?
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling that one doesn't look the same way for me as it does for you
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09:45<NoobCp>Anyone know if a simple pbs terminus station is better or worse than one with those hugely complicated access systems
09:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19655 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Codechange: Reduce usage magic p1 parameter.
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>grammar not is best friend frosch123
09:47<Alberth>NoobCp: any layout that does the job, is fine I think
09:48<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's magic :)
09:48<NoobCp>I guess I'll have to see how big the que gets
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>NoobCp: terminal stations work best when you have multiple lines from different directions, instead of one big main line
09:49*andythenorth ponders hovercraft
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09:50<Alberth>NoobCp: it depends on your playing style. If you want to make a station one time, you'll have to make it big enough for the whole game. You can also start with a smaller/simpler station, and extend when needed.
09:50<NoobCp>I'm thinking of immersing the station in a city, more caption area with terminus.
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>it's one of the big advantages of cargodist, you can place the main station on the edge of the city and cover the whole city with a tram network
09:51<NoobCp>cargodist?
09:51<andythenorth>or you can fool around with doubling up stations and uses buses on transfers :P
09:52<NoobCp>buses seem too have a a mosquito load of passengers ;/
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>i said trams.
09:52<andythenorth>trams / buses /s
09:52<Alberth>number of passengers in cities is a general problem. Even with a train station you can get into trouble :)
09:53<NoobCp>three line three long platform seemed to be able to almost clear it's passenger load on monorail
09:53<NoobCp>I'll have to try experimenting with steamers soon
09:59<planetmaker>a good idea, also without cargodist, is to build the ICE a bit outside and transfer the passengers by a (HUGE) tram network
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, as long as the main stations accept passengers, you only need one way transfers
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10:18<planetmaker>hm, mingw seems to have gotten an update to gcc-4.4
10:20<NoobCp>20ish shiploads a month...
10:21<Terkhen>yes, I installed gcc-4.4 on mine a few days ago
10:27<andythenorth>DanMacK: how big are small lakers?
10:37<andythenorth>hmm
10:37<andythenorth>what a lot of hovercraft
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10:48<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19656 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_cmd.cpp vehiclelist.cpp vehiclelist.h): -Codechange/Fix: Report back if invalid vehicle lists are requested.
10:50<NoobCp>I say oil rigs are brutal
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10:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19657 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp vehicle_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Add saneness checks for front vehicles.
10:58<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19658 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp misc_cmd.cpp): -Fix: One could turn transport companies into credit banks.
10:58*andythenorth wonders if freight hovercraft should be *not* refittable to bulk cargos like coal?
10:59<NoobCp>I tuned up my rig's passanger output to the max actually
10:59<SpComb>let the fools fly their cargo if they wish to
10:59<NoobCp>Cargoship not good enough?
11:00*andythenorth hmmmms a bit
11:00<andythenorth>some av8 planes are refittable to bulk cargo, some are not
11:00<NoobCp>Air coal! ha
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so only express cargo (goods, mail, food)?
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11:01<NoobCp>Coal fired planes would be fun
11:01<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: maybe
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>sounds fine
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11:02<Pikka>hmmmmmmm
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11:03<planetmaker>he... it was possible to repay more loan than was drawn?
11:03<planetmaker>Nice thing :-)
11:04<NoobCp>Negative moneys!
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11:06<Pikka>hmmm
11:06<Pikka>hmmmmmmmmmmmm
11:06*Pikka has a request >:]
11:06<@Rubidium>to fly across nothern Europe?
11:06*Hirundo suggests asking a meta-question first
11:07<KenjiE20>no you can't have my red fez
11:07<planetmaker>hm... the estimated cost for repaying 10k loan are zero
11:07<NoobCp>What does (x/8 goods) in land area information for a building mean?
11:07*Pikka would like callback 36 for aircraft speed to change the canonical top speed (displayed in the aircraft window and buy menu) when the callback occurs in the cargo FF chain.
11:08<planetmaker>NoobCp: a station accepts cargo, if in the area of influence a total of more than 8/8 of that cargo is accepted
11:09<planetmaker>same goes for providing mail and pax
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>NoobCp: if a building accepts 3/8 goods, you need three of these buildings to accept goods
11:14<NoobCp>Thanks, I understand now
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11:15*NoobCp fears his 4 point network is going to fail miserably
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11:28<andythenorth>Pikka might be thinking something similar to me, except I'm thinking about ships
11:30<Pikka>andy: if you mean what I just said... :P
11:30<andythenorth>speed varies by refit?
11:30<Pikka>or by year
11:30<Pikka>I /can/ change it just fine already, it's just it will show the wrong number in the buy menu and aircraft info window
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11:32<andythenorth>I have the same issue for ships
11:32<andythenorth>except speed varies by load size
11:34*andythenorth was just pondering hovercraft that can 'overload' at the cost of top speed (based on RL)
11:34<Pikka>I see, sounds good :)
11:35<Yexo>andythenorth: have you already tried it for ships?
11:35<Yexo>from the code it looks likes it's already implemented
11:37<NoobCp>50 kg per passenger, nice...
11:38<Pikka>where, noobcp?
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11:41<Yexo>Pikka: could you test http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/cb36_aircraft_speed_menu.diff ?
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11:42<Pikka>I can't easily compile, Yexo
11:42<Pikka>wb DanMacK
11:42<DanMacK>thanks
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11:43<Pikka>if you or andy could knock out a windows binary? :o
11:43<Yexo>already working on that
11:43<Pikka>thanks
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11:50<DanMacK>Windows binary for what may I ask?
11:50<planetmaker>Pikka: andy certainly can't give you easily a windows binary ;-)
11:50<planetmaker>or I'd be surprised :-)
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11:51<planetmaker>afaik he uses OSX
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11:52<NoobCp>If the default 1950 passenger carriage's weights are 25 and 27 t and it carries 40 passengers Pikka, then in the default set?
11:54<Pikka>NoobCp: 62.5kg, to be precise.
11:54<Yexo>Pikka: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/r19658m-cb36-aircraft.zip
11:55<Pikka>thanks Yexo, I'll test it now
11:55<NoobCp>2 tonnes/40
11:55*Yexo wonders how long till the same request for road vehicles comse in
11:56<Pikka>do road vehicles even have 36 for speed? :P
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11:56<Yexo>hmm, apparently not
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11:57<Pikka>looks like it works, Yexo :D
11:57<andythenorth>Terkhen was looking at cb 36 (I think) when he did 'realistic' rv acceleration?
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11:57<Pikka>in the buy menu, I guess I can live with the wrong speed in the aircraft info window
11:57<andythenorth>and Yexo yes cb 36 works for ships. the log raft in FISH is *much* faster without a log tow
11:57<andythenorth>but reports the wrong speed :)
11:58<andythenorth>(top speed)
11:58<Yexo>Pikka: where exactly does it report the wrong speed?
11:58-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.194] has joined #openttd
11:58<Yexo>andythenorth: same question ^^
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11:59<Pikka>the "Max Speed" in the vehicle info window
11:59<Terkhen>http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/150-callback_36_support.diff <-- I have an untested patch to implement cb36 for power, weight and tractive effort (RVs), but I have never looked at RV speed
11:59<andythenorth>Yexo: buy menu, vehicle info menu
11:59<Pikka>however, this isn't an easy fix, because you don't necessarily want it to change with phase of flight (which is what cb36 was originally created to do)
12:00<Yexo>andythenorth: in the buy menu cb36 is called with cargotype FF
12:00<andythenorth>I think this is fundamentally hard to solve
12:00<andythenorth>I'm going to buy a ship. Which 'max' speed is useful? Loaded, unloaded, or some other crazy condition invented by a grf author?
12:01<Pikka>the "best" solution I can think of is to use cargotype FF when drawing the number, but it's a bit hacky because it's an abuse of the "buy menu" cargotype.
12:01<Pikka>when drawing the number in the vehicle info window, I mean
12:02<andythenorth>can't the vehicle info window just run the cb chain and use that as the result? The game *knows* the top speed, why can't it just be displayed?
12:02<andythenorth>the buy menu....much harder. Should be dealt with by the grf author using additional text
12:02<Pikka>andy: because then you'll get constant number changes with phase of flight for aircraft.
12:02<andythenorth>ah
12:02*andythenorth sees the point
12:02<Pikka>the buy menu is easy, yexo's patch took care of that (for aircraft)
12:03<andythenorth>hmmm. Think we have similar but different problems :)
12:03<Pikka>:)
12:03<Pikka>if you're just trying to change the speed, that should be easy enough? "Max. Speed" doesn't necessarily mean "how fast I can go right now", anyway. ^^;
12:04<Pikka>thanks very much for the patch, Yexo. :)
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12:04<Yexo>np :)
12:04<Yexo>I'll take a look at the other problems now
12:05*andythenorth wonders about smoke for ships and RVs :P
12:10<fjb>No smoking. Save your environment.
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12:15<Pikka>it's arudge
12:16<SpComb>you're all arudge
12:18<Pikka>hmm
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12:23<welshdragon>hmm
12:24<welshdragon>what'd be the ideal spec for a dedicated server?
12:24<__ln__>128 cores @4GHz
12:25<Terkhen>depends on what you plan to use it for
12:25<jordi>grr
12:25<welshdragon>Infrastructure Sharing and Cargodist
12:25<jordi>I spent lots of Debian time on opettd today
12:25<OwenS>In my opinion: Sun UltraSPARC T2 x2 ;-)
12:26<OwenS>Oh, for running OpenTTD...
12:26<welshdragon>of course
12:26<welshdragon>that's why i asked in here
12:26<OwenS>We don't talk about OpenTTD much in here :P
12:27<Ammler>welshdragon: not much weaker then the client...
12:27<OwenS>I think I'd have to vote for IBM POWER6 then. Pricey though :P
12:27<welshdragon>Ammler: so 1GB Ram... 300MB for saves/data?
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12:28<Ammler>you need around 20 MB Memory
12:29<welshdragon>OK
12:30<Ammler>(rahter less)
12:31*andythenorth wonders about freight hovercraft carrying PAX
12:31<andythenorth>maybe not
12:33<Pikka>NoobCp: passengers weight 1/16th of a ton or 62.5kg
12:34<NoobCp>if 2 tons is 40 passengers, then one passenger would be 1/20. Again, if.
12:34<Pikka>but it isn't
12:36*andythenorth enjoys deciding vehicle stats
12:37<Pikka>ttd cargos have weights in 16th of a ton, and passengers weigh 1/16th. :)
12:37<andythenorth>not easy, but less tedious than pixels :)
12:37<Pikka>*nods* yep andy
12:38<NoobCp>Should've said that in the first place. Deduction cannot indicate wether the figure is rounded or not
12:40<Ammler>he, that should change 50kg might be 100 years ago, but today it is more 100kg ;-)
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12:45*andythenorth obsesses about not cluttering the buy menu
12:45<andythenorth>but complicated refits are bad too
12:45<andythenorth>5 hovercraft seems quite a lot
12:46*andythenorth shrugs
12:47<andythenorth>Terkhen you've had a go with the cargo trams in HEQS?
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12:51<Terkhen>I used them a lot in my last game
12:53<andythenorth>I am planning tow boats for FISH. They haul 1-4 barges. I am wondering about doing that as either refits (like the trams) or separate ships in the buy menu
12:53<andythenorth>is the refit annoying?
12:54<Terkhen>kind of, but I think having separate vehicles with the same stats and different cargo capacity will be worse (more confusing)
12:55<Terkhen>hhmmm...
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12:56<Terkhen>if the window was splitted in two (a half for cargos, a half for the subtypes of that cargo) it would be simpler to use
12:59<frosch123>subtypes in the purchase list? cargotypes and capacity hardly work :p
12:59<Terkhen>I meant the refit window
13:00<frosch123>oh, nice idea :o
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13:00<Terkhen>in some corner cases (no subtypes, a single cargo) it would revert to the old style
13:01<asilv>that would probably make things like NARS regearing look much better
13:01<frosch123>you could also preselect the current cargo in case one only wants to change the subtype
13:02<Terkhen>but... how to decide the current cargo for trains?
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13:02<frosch123>good point
13:02<frosch123>i guess the most carried cargo
13:03<frosch123>that would also deal with those weird articulated wagons carrying both passenger and mail
13:03<frosch123>ais do something similar
13:04<Terkhen>preselecting the current cargo would be useful for the current window too... I thought about it but I didn't know how to solve the train problem nicely
13:04<Terkhen>is there a function defined for that?
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13:05<frosch123>hmm, i guess not
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13:06<Terkhen>using the most carried cargo makes sense, but NARS regearing would never be preselected then
13:07<frosch123>it would if there is only the engine, wouldn't it?
13:07<Terkhen>yes
13:07<andythenorth>this sounds good to me, cargo refitting is a chore
13:07<Terkhen>I have never played with NARS, I don't know how useful is to regear existing trains
13:08<andythenorth>moderately
13:08<andythenorth>sometimes very useful
13:08<andythenorth>useful / fun /s
13:08<frosch123>in the meantime. can someone recommend me a good trainset with nice freight engines and less MUs
13:08<andythenorth>NARS 2.0
13:08*andythenorth draws tanker sprites
13:09<andythenorth>canset 1.0
13:09<andythenorth>:P
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13:11<Terkhen>besides NARS regearing I can't think of any other case where selecting the most carried cargo is not the best option
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13:12<frosch123>hmm, actually, sort them by current capacity, and then alphabetically
13:12<frosch123>that would also work with mixed trains
13:12<nighthawk_c_m>Norwegian Trainset - very nice to get used to freight hauling - or the Canadian, but that has tons of engines - eyecandy at its best
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13:12<TheLamer>Hi. I just start a new server, come and play :) [CZ] 1.0.0-Trains Only [1962] ip: 94.242.81.70:3979
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13:15<Terkhen>setting the amount of "regearing" cargo to the max would make it appear the first in most cases, at the cost of making the buy vehicle window look uglier
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13:17<elmz_>lol, funding road reconstruction in a town with 40k inhabitants was noisy :P
13:18<OwenS>I wonder what the racket would be like with 150k
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13:25<elmz_>how do you make a city grow fast?
13:25<elmz_>how many stations is the max that helps to boost city growth?
13:26<asilv>5
13:26<elmz_>or do you just have to be lucky and hit a town that is predestined to become a large city?
13:27<OwenS>elmz_: thar helps. They're designated by (City) in the city window
13:27<OwenS>Though the biggest ones are not cities in our game XD
13:28<elmz_>hm, never seen one with a City flag...
13:28<elmz_>guess I haven't been looking after it either ^^
13:29<elmz_>I remember back in 0.6.x I made a gigantic city in the scenario editor, highways and everything ^^
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13:33<elmz_>and in-game I usually tend to "assist" the town algorithms :P
13:33<elmz_>I try to get as many houses covered by one train station.
13:33<elmz_>http://i.imgur.com/eb2qA.png
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19659 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: greek - 2 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: irish - 2 changes by Nalum
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: maltese - 74 changes by kelinu
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19660 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] support cb36 for aircraft speed also in the build menu
13:47<Pikka>thanks yexo :)
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13:53*andythenorth wonders about random graphics for vehicles
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13:54<andythenorth>how to have a ferry show random cars each time it loads, but *with* multiple loading states
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13:55<frosch123>use the completely-empty trigger for rerandomisation
13:55<andythenorth>that would make sense
14:01<lennard>TrueBrain: did you remember to re-enable? :P
14:01<TrueBrain>of course not
14:02<TrueBrain>there we go
14:02<TrueBrain>tnx lennard
14:02<lennard>np :P
14:03<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> he, that should change 50kg might be 100 years ago, but today it is more 100kg ;-) <-- the figure is way wrong anyway, because people have baggage etc.
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14:05<Pikka>Eddi, Ammler; strangely enough, people get lighter the more of them there are. :P
14:07<TrueBrain>OMG! COD4 MW2 MP SUCKS!!!!!!! We are now migrating for .. 2 minutes already to a new host .. FUCK OFF! GIVE ME DEDICATED SERVERS!
14:10*Eddi|zuHause was going to ask what was going on with TrueBrain, but then realized, that it's TrueBrain we're speaking about :p
14:12<TrueBrain>just ranting about MW2
14:17<nighthawk_c_m>A question, is it possible to turn cargo dist off if it is included in a patched binary?
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>is that remotely comparable to WT2? :p
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>nighthawk_c_m: yes, set the demand function to unhandled
14:19<nighthawk_c_m>I mean in the advanced menue, where do I find that demand function?
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>under economy, i presume
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14:20<nighthawk_c_m>no, I only find a Minimum cargo rating cap (whatever that is ??) and I have the linkgraph stuff
14:20<asilv>it is in link graph
14:21<asilv>cargo handling for passengers,mail etc
14:21<asilv>set to unhandled
14:21<nighthawk_c_m>I don't know - there are options for Distribution of Passengers / mail etc
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes, those
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause>symmetric/asymmetric/unhandled
14:21<nighthawk_c_m>I can set it to symetric, asymetric or manual
14:22<nighthawk_c_m>ah ok, manual means no cargo dist active?
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14:23<asilv>yes i think so, my version says unhandled bit it is pretty old
14:23<asilv>bit=but
14:23<fonsinchen>I've replaced "unhandled" with manual
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: it's a bad name imho
14:23<fonsinchen>as it's "manual distribution" not "unhandled distribution"
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: how about "off"?
14:24<fonsinchen>off sounds better indeed
14:25<fonsinchen>and about minimum cargo rating cap:
14:25<fonsinchen>With cargodist you get your station ratings adjusted by number of destinations reachable
14:26<fonsinchen>The "minimum cargo rating cap" is the minimum rating you can get after the adjustment.
14:26<fonsinchen>It's probably misnamed, too.
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds very confusing...
14:27<fonsinchen>But I can't even think of a word for that in German.
14:28<fonsinchen>I mean, of course you can still get lower ratings, but then it's not because of cargodist lowering them.
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14:29<fonsinchen>The rating is capped at a certain value depending on the number of destinations reachable.
14:29<fonsinchen>That setting is the minimum of the cap.
14:29<fonsinchen>whatever ...
14:31<nighthawk_c_m>so if I try it to be the classical way I set the cap to 100% or to 0% ?
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14:32<fonsinchen>100%
14:32<fonsinchen>then all ratings just stay the same
14:33<fonsinchen>0% means you get 0% for a theoretical station with no destinations reachable
14:33<fonsinchen>no matter how many vehicles stop there.
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14:35<nighthawk_c_m>ok, thanks
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14:49<Pikka>Yexo, newairports isn't in trunk yet, is it?
14:50<Yexo>nope
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14:50<Yexo>I got sidetracked with nml so I haven't finished it yet
14:50<Pikka>ah, okay :)
14:51<TrueBrain>nml?
14:51<Yexo>nfo meta language
14:51<TrueBrain>lol
14:51<Pikka>is it pretty solid at the moment? I should have a go at coding some airports again. and sea ports, and "industry" airports... D:
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>the umpteenth attempt of making grfs more programmer-friendly ;)
14:52*Pikka finds them perfectly friendly... :P
14:52<Yexo>Pikka: not really, especially the important part (the statemachine callback) is not stable
14:52<Pikka>oh
14:53<Yexo><Eddi|zuHause> the umpteenth attempt of making grfs more programmer-friendly ;) <- and how many of those have any been in a workable state?
14:57<planetmaker>doesn't look too bad yet :-)
14:58*andythenorth is on the fence about nml :P
14:58<andythenorth>it it works, it'll be outstanding :)
14:59<andythenorth>but nfo is perfectly usable.
14:59<andythenorth>it's not nfo that makes things hard, it's...
14:59<andythenorth>(a) debugging / testing grfs
14:59<andythenorth>(b) understanding how openttd works (in the case of industries anyway)
15:00<andythenorth>I am a slapdash coder with no formal training in programming and I can do perfectly well in nfo :D
15:00<andythenorth>but also if I can help with nml I will :)
15:01<andythenorth>meanwhile, it would be nice to have *more and better fricking airports* :P
15:01<planetmaker>andythenorth: even if I can somewhat code nfo I don't find it particularily readable.
15:01<Pikka>that's what comments are for
15:01<planetmaker>still
15:02<planetmaker>in order to keep an action2 sequence readable, you'll have to write a comment on virtually every 2nd to 4th byte
15:03<Pikka>no you don't
15:03<Pikka>the syntax of every var action 2 is exactly the same, once you learn the grammar of them it's pretty easy to see what's what.
15:04<Yexo>even then you either have to know the variabls that are used, look them up or write a comment near every variable
15:04<planetmaker>having a consitant syntax is a pre-requisite, but that doesn't mean readibility
15:04<andythenorth>you just read up from the bottom of varaction 2 chains
15:04<Pikka>one comment per line is plenty, usually. :)
15:04<Pikka>601 * 14 02 03 20 81 c4 00 FF 01 28 00 \b70 FF 20 00 // year built
15:04<planetmaker>wonderful.
15:04<andythenorth>with industry code, you have almost *no* chance of reconstructing what I intended to do anyway :D
15:05<andythenorth>because industries are bonkers
15:05<Pikka>totally :P
15:05<Pikka>although once you've done one it gets easier ;)
15:05<planetmaker>of course it does. No doubt.
15:05<planetmaker>but the learning slope is PRETTY steep
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you realize that "readability" depends heavily on whether you or someone else wrote the code :p
15:05<Pikka>yes, Eddi
15:06<andythenorth>http://paste.openttd.org/225661
15:06<Pikka>although I can make sense of other people's code if I reformat and recomment it a little.
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>problem with action 2 is that they're backwards...
15:06<andythenorth>totally readable :)
15:06<Terkhen>the learning slope was so steep for me that it is more like a wall :P
15:07<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/225660 <- a simple tram
15:07<andythenorth>yep, improved
15:07<andythenorth>but what are all those { chars for?
15:07<andythenorth>:P
15:07<andythenorth>strange.
15:08<Pikka>yuk
15:08<andythenorth>perhaps we could add semi-colons too :D
15:08<Pikka>bring back the byte :P
15:08<andythenorth>oh, we did
15:08<andythenorth>what's wrong with significant whitespace :P
15:08<planetmaker>:-P it's not fortran! ;-)
15:09<andythenorth>yeah, but you've indented everything properly anyway, so why bother with the braces?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>significant whitespaces work well in python, as long as you don't mix tabs and spaces
15:09*Pikka doesn't understand how "weight: 5; // tons" is any easier than "16 \b2 // weight"
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you have to remember that 16 is weight
15:10<planetmaker>Pikka: it's understandable without any knowledge
15:10<Pikka>no you don't, it says right there.
15:10<planetmaker>he?
15:10*andythenorth stops an argument about python before he loses on a basic mistake :P
15:10<Yexo>Pikka: take train speed for example, with nfo you have to use 2 properties, 16 for the low byte and 24 for the high byte
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15:10<planetmaker>how is "16" as clear a description as "weight"?
15:10<andythenorth>python dicts also have those tiresome braces m(
15:11<Yexo>in nml it's just a single line "speed: value;"
15:11<Alberth>andythenorth: LALR(1) is a context-free parser, it does not understand white space, in fact it throws all white space in the bin first
15:11<andythenorth>meanwhile....back at the ranch / well /s
15:11<Pikka>anyway
15:11<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/mmmm_more_airports_would_be_nice.png
15:11<andythenorth>airplanes are the best way to deliver FIRS engineering supplies to primary industry
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: no, that has nothing to do with it. LALR(1) is the syntactical analysis, whitespaces are handled way earlier in the compiler toolchain
15:12*andythenorth nods at Pikka for generalAV8on
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>in the lexical analysis/tokenizer
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>which is usually regexp based
15:12<Pikka>making something which can translate "weight:" into "16" is all very well... but I'm yet to be convinced that there's any way to make advanced action 2s more "accessable" to your average punter.
15:13<planetmaker>they're in the thing already as far as I see that... I just haven't gone there.
15:13*andythenorth jumps up and down about airports :P
15:13<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: still, the parser does not use indenting and \n to understand blocks
15:13<Alberth>andythenorth: your passengers have to cross the tiles where the planes taxi :p
15:14<Pikka>andy, you'll be wanting something like http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Farmstrip_pv.png
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: you can turn whitespaces into tokens at this point, allowing for the syntactical analysis to handle them
15:14<Pikka>or the "tactical airstrip" which I haven't drawn yet :P
15:14<andythenorth>Pikka: exactly :)
15:14*Alberth wishes Eddi|zuHausea lot of good luck with comment handling
15:14<andythenorth>except it has to land a C130 without crashing the damn thing once a year :)
15:14<Terkhen>I have been thinking about that airport while playing FIRS too :)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: the python parser has "INDENT" tokens, so it can't be that absurd...
15:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19661 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Base the number of vertical grids of a graph on its size.
15:15<andythenorth>I have resorted to landing the plane at an airport then using a helicopter for a final leg. Looks better
15:15<Pikka>yep, that's a 3 and the hercules will want a 4... but there'll be one. :P
15:16<andythenorth>incidentally planes lose money like nobody's business when delivering ENSP and FMSP
15:16<__ln__>does a newgrf allwo me to build a volcano?
15:16<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: it is a very nice hack :)
15:16<planetmaker>__ln__: yes.
15:16<__ln__>great
15:16<Terkhen>I get money when using rvs
15:16<planetmaker>Just define it as an industry
15:16<Pikka>why's that, andythenorth? low paying cargo?
15:16<andythenorth>maybe
15:16<andythenorth>I haven't sorted the payment rates yet
15:16<__ln__>http://fatpita.net/images/image%20%285448%29.jpg
15:16<andythenorth>so much to do :P
15:17<planetmaker>probably it's a primary industry and you can transport CO2, ash, and lava from there.
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15:17<Terkhen>not by airplane, I guess
15:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19662 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Feature: Resizable graphs.
15:19<andythenorth>if anyone wanted to help set cargo payment rates for FIRS, I'd welcome the help
15:20<Pikka>the dark arts indeed :P I've never quite worked out how to get the graph to curve the way I want it to.
15:22*andythenorth also has some serious thinking to do about drawing a better forest
15:22<andythenorth>http://heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=17990
15:23<Terkhen>http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/old_better_graphs.png <-- what do you think about this feature? (the screenshot is taken from an ancient patch)
15:23<andythenorth>suck
15:23<andythenorth>partially anyway
15:24<andythenorth>high contrast isn't needed, and gridlines often harm the readability of a chart (not improve it)
15:24<Terkhen>I agree about the black background, I meant showing payment vs speed
15:25<andythenorth>interesting
15:25<Pikka>goodnight wallyweb
15:25<Pikka>and everyone else :)
15:25<andythenorth>bye :)
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15:25*andythenorth doesn't currently care what pays what rate anyway
15:26<andythenorth>in the absence of any point to the game, I've been using it as a train set
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: that makes a lot more sense than the current graphs
15:26<andythenorth>I've never ever counted how many squares I'm delivering over :)
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15:27<Eddi|zuHause>it would be interesting if things like the order or timetable window told the (air-) distance
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>although you then get into trouble with 1-, 2- and infinity-distance
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's one of the biggest inconsistencies of the game, because vehicle movement uses infinity-distance but payment uses 1-distance
15:30<frosch123>vehicle movement does not use infinity-distance
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it does. vehicles are the same length across two diagonal rails as they are across one normal rail
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>and speed is adjusted, too
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15:51<andythenorth>meh
15:52<andythenorth>copy, paste, shuffle, copy, paste, shuffle, copy paste, shuffle
15:54<@Rubidium>if you copy-paste, do it correctly :)
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15:55*andythenorth hopes these oil tankers are worth it
15:59<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: speed is not. that is why wagons move slower when the engine runs horizontal/vertical direction. causing following trains to stop
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: great, makes the inconsistency even bigger
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>how about we fix vehicles to use 2-distance instead? it's not a problem with original graphics, some newgrfs with long vehicles may have to adjust...
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>but it may be the better choice for the future
16:08-!-Felicitus [~Felicitus@idefix.timohummel.com] has joined #openttd
16:08<Felicitus>hi
16:08<Alberth>hi
16:09<Felicitus>i just compiled ottd 1.0 from source on mac osx 10.6 and some files downloaded from bananas are corrupted - if I download them and do a gunzip and placing them into the content_download dir, it works
16:10<Felicitus>could it be that my gzip lib is faulty?
16:10<@Rubidium>likely, zlib 1.2.4 is broken
16:10<@Rubidium>and we won't work around it either
16:11<Felicitus>okay, do you know which version would work?
16:11<@Rubidium>as the developer of zlib has more-or-less said that a new version of zlib will be released before we plan to release 1.0.1
16:11<@Rubidium>probably anything less than 1.2.3.5
16:12<Felicitus>okay, i will try that manually, thanks Rubidium
16:12<@Rubidium>although given the release date of 1.2.3 it's doubtful the content download system has been tested with < 1.2.3
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16:21<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19663 /trunk/src/command.cpp: -Fix: in rare cases, update of signals could be missed
16:40<Felicitus>Rubidium: thank you very much! it works now
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16:47<NoobCp>Would be nice if road vehicles treated intersections as roundabouts ;/ U turn!
16:47<Jolteon>would be nice if there were actual roundabouts.
16:47<Jolteon>but i like eye candy.
16:47<Jolteon>so
16:48<@Rubidium>he likes to play toyland
16:48<@Rubidium>as that has the most candy
16:48<frosch123>yeah, transporting thousands of bags of candy by ship is no fun
16:49<@Rubidium>I like the bubbles
16:49<@Rubidium>floating up
16:49<Jolteon>Rubidium: oh god no.
16:49<Jolteon>Toyland makes me cry :(
16:49<@Rubidium>toyland rules...
16:49<Jolteon>.
16:49<Jolteon>RubidiumRespect--;
16:49<@Rubidium>seriously, try it on a 1.0.0 server
16:49<KenjiE20>Rubidium ++
16:49<Jolteon>(Probably not valid in the language OpenTTD uses)
16:50<frosch123>Jolteon: try with opengfx. it became one of the nicest climates
16:50<@Rubidium>you'll have very few people trying to destroy the map
16:51<@Rubidium>Jolteon: luckily my respect was already at a very low point, so you just caused an underflow.. thanks for all the extra respect!
16:51<Jolteon>:(
16:52<Terkhen>it is playable with OpenGFX, recently I had a HEQS & toyland game centered on sweets
16:53<Terkhen>I doubt that heavy vehicles are designed with candyfloss in mind, but they worked nicely :P
17:00<planetmaker>lool :-)
17:03<frosch123>hmm, didn't heqs license disallow stuff violating good taste?
17:03<NoobCp>Long in-city bus lines seem like a stupid idea in retrospect.
17:03<andythenorth>frosch123: I can't disallow it, the GPL forbids that :)
17:04<andythenorth>I just don't recommend it
17:04<andythenorth>:P
17:04<andythenorth>the GPL should have a 'taste' clause
17:05<@Rubidium>but candyfloss is good taste (for some)
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17:06<nighthawk_c_m>anyone have any experiences with the signals over bridges and tunnels?
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's a bad feature
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17:08<nighthawk_c_m>ah I just figured out the trick how to make them work
17:08<@Rubidium>yeah, don't put signals in tunnels that aren't used yet. When you start using the tunnels the signals will fail due to dust messing up measurements so you have to stop trains... and then the dust can settle for the next train after which the signals fail again
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17:10<nighthawk_c_m>not if youz ste a block signal right in front and after the tunnel
17:10<nighthawk_c_m>the driver misses the red signal in the dust, but is on the move due to the green one out in the sunshine
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17:11<Terkhen>:P
17:12<nighthawk_c_m>damn - it worked for two trains - now it fails again - any way to deactivate this if it is included in a client with multiple patche?
17:12<nighthawk_c_m>patches*
17:12<Terkhen>nighthawk_c_m: IIRC it had an advanced setting
17:14<nighthawk_c_m>nah, I don't find anything in the advanced settings
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17:43<nighthawk_c_m>no any idea on how to solve this problem?
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18:03<|NoobCp|>Drag and drop station building over a previously placed station draws the cost of construction with no work done
18:03-!-|NoobCp| is now known as NoobCp
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18:15<SmatZ>NoobCp: not really, with newgrf, it can change the station's layout
18:17<NoobCp>(...with nothing new built) to improve my statement. Good to know SmatZ
18:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19664 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3749]: Crash of a dedicated server if the null blitter is overridden and (after a while) there is no company 0 on new year anymore
18:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: s/1.2.3/< 1.2.3.5/
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: aha, i didn't know that...
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19665 /branches/1.0/ (51 files in 6 dirs):
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash of a dedicated server if the null blitter is overridden and (after a while) there is no company 0 on new year anymore [FS#3749] (r19664)
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: In rare cases, update of signals could be missed (r19663)
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Various improvements of command handling, missing error messages (r19658, r19657, r19656, r19655, r19654, r19637, r19633, r19621, r19616, r19605, r19604)
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Sorting industries by production was broken for NewGRF industries (r19538)
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18:39<Terkhen>good night
18:39<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19666 /branches/1.0/src/lang/ (41 files in 2 dirs): [1.0] -Backport from trunk: many many string updates
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18:53<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19667 /tags/1.0.1-RC1/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.1-RC1
18:53*Sacro files archlinux out of date
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>you put RCs in there?
18:54<planetmaker>wow. that's early for a 1.0.1, even though only an RC :-)
18:54<Sacro>yes
18:54<Sacro>there-s openttd{,-beta,-rc,-svn}
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: plenty of bugfixes recently
18:55<planetmaker>but then... crash and desync fixes out there.
18:55<@Rubidium>why does archlinux package nosound? It's not needed anymore
18:55<Sacro>where?
18:55<@Rubidium>oh, it's even nastier
18:55<@Rubidium>it's a touched sample.cat
18:55<frosch123>[00:54] <planetmaker> wow. that's early for a 1.0.1, even though only an RC :-) <- double numbers of downloads result in double number of releases or so
18:55<@Rubidium>Sacro: openttd-nullsfx
18:56<Sacro>heh
18:56<Sacro>in community i see
18:56<Sacro>No idea, want me to bugreport it?>
18:56<@Rubidium>it does not even WORK
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18:57<Sacro> mkdir -p $pkgdir/usr/share/openttd/data
18:57<Sacro> touch $pkgdir/usr/share/openttd/data/sample.cat
18:57<Sacro>impressive
18:57<planetmaker>haha @ frosch123
18:57<@Rubidium>Sacro: yes, especially because it simply doesn't work
18:57<@Rubidium>(anymore)
18:59<Sacro>can openttd work without sample.cat now?
18:59<planetmaker>yes
19:00<Sacro>bugfiled
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: especially it won't work with modified sample.cat anymore
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19:03<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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19:13<SmatZ>@seen scarabeus
19:13<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen scarabeus.
19:13<SmatZ>wasn't he like openttd gentoo maintainer?
19:13<@Rubidium>SmatZ: that's bones, but I haven't seen him here
19:14<@Rubidium>Wizzleby seems to be working on it "at the moment" though, but then it's all in the hand of bones anyways
19:15<SmatZ>:/
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19:16<@Rubidium>SmatZ: fun thing is every time he finds something to complain about
19:16<@Rubidium>now it's CFLAGS passed to CXXFLAGS
19:17<@Rubidium>but conceptually you can't prevent that; there's no sdl-config --cxx-flags
19:17<SmatZ>:D
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19:19<Eddi|zuHause>why does it matter which variable you assign the result of pgk-config --cflags to?
19:21<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: because, as I understand "Gentoo", it is FORBIDDEN to pass CFLAGS to a C++ compiler
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>different thing: apparently if you double-click on a vehicle in the "available vehicles" list, you get a message "can't buy vehicle"...
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>i would expect that to have been removed
19:25<@Rubidium>oh, pulling a mb here?
19:26<planetmaker>:-D
19:26<@Rubidium>anyhow, work around for your bug: use 0.1.0!
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19:27<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of MB behaviour are you referring to?
19:28<@Rubidium>"X is broken, I told about X already many times before"
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>who said anything about telling before?
19:29<@Rubidium>the "I would expect that to have been removed" sounds quite like "I spoke about this before"
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>no, it means "this behaviour is a total surprise to me"
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>because i witnessed the removal of the "buy from the available vehicles window" feature
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>but apparently only the button was removed, not the double-click buying
19:30<@Rubidium>after which Bjarni unified those windows (right?)
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>so seems something was overlooked there
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>that i can't tell...
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>i have a natural aversion to gui code, so i don't pay attention ;)
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, my view is that this is a bug, shall i report it?
19:33<@Rubidium>yeah, preferably with a patch
19:34<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19668 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_marine.cpp dock_gui.cpp water_cmd.cpp water_map.h): -Codechange: Use WaterClass in parameters of CMD_BUILD_CANAL.
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19:37<Pulec>hello
19:37<Pulec>what kind of setting of server is, when if people disconect from a game, their company just dissaper after a while
19:38<Yexo>happy now Eddi|zuHause?
19:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r19669 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't display an error message when double clicking on a vehicle in the 'available vehicles'-window
19:38<Pulec>also i was quite suprised how many kids or stupid people play the game
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: aww, i was just trying to write up a report ;)
19:39<Pulec>they "accidentaly" build all kind of stupid roads on maps or even blocking newly built stations, such a shame
19:39<@Rubidium>Pulec: autoclean
19:41<Pulec>cleaning the extra useless roads?
19:41<Pulec>or off companys?
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>clean the companies including all their posessions
19:42<Yexo>autoclean is about removing companies after they're inactive for a while
19:42<@Rubidium>that removes companies, not the roads
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, the roads become ownerless
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>while rails etc. get removed
19:47<Pulec>yes that is what is hapening
19:47<Pulec>lot of server seems to have this setting...
19:47<Pulec>why is that?
19:48<Pulec>i see game year 2201 with no one there
19:48<Pulec>just play transport some goods grow some cities and leave?
19:48<Pulec>heh
19:49-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
19:49-!-glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.0, 1.0.1-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Full English Breakfast only
19:49-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
19:52<OwenS>I must be posting on too many forums... I keep getting PMed :p
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20:36<bryjen>Mmmm, breakfast
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>at 2:30? :p
20:38*bryjen points at the topic
20:39<Pulec>i would like to have lunch now
20:39<Pulec>some of us live during the night
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21:03<Cadde>I pwn during the night ;)
21:06<Cadde>Sorry for this stupid question, but what (apart from writing it to the savegame) effects does changing the savegame verion from say 400 to 401 have. Or in the case of the "More heightlevels patch", set it to "MORE_HEIGHTLEVEL_SAVEGAME_VERSION" (which is 201).
21:07<+glx>different version means different data locations
21:08<+glx>due to more data or less data stored in the savegame
21:09<Cadde>hmm
21:10<Cadde>When i want to combine many patches into one patch these change the number from 400 to 401 and heightlevels changes it to be 201, would that break something for the other patches.
21:10<+glx>yes
21:11<+glx>you need to be careful to merge all changes
21:12<Cadde>So which one should i be using? To me, heightlevels seems to be the one that would make the biggest change in savegames.
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>Cadde: savegame version is particularly relevant for loading older savegames
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>typically you want savegame version to be trink version +1, in case you want to keep older patched savegames, trunk version +2
21:12<Cadde>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, that i can understand. I don't care much for loading older savegames right now. All i want is to make sure i don't break other patches.
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21:15<Eddi|zuHause>you need to update all patches to use the same savegame version
21:15<Cadde>Ah i see, so they should really be using 401 instead of 201
21:16<Cadde>because 401 would be trunk + the extra bits
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>if you use trunk version +1, you make sure you can load all "unmodified" savegames
21:17<Cadde>Yepp ok. Thanks
21:17<Cadde>I still don't get the internal functionality of the version but i shall start using trunk + 1 instead of the heightlevels version i used lately.
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21:45<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually really easy: each setting has a range "from ... to" where it is valid.
21:46<Eddi|zuHause>"from" is usually "version at which this setting is introduced" and "to" is "max version"
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 18 00:00:25 2010