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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-18

---Logopened Sun Apr 18 00:00:25 2010
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00:18<Mazur>Ok, set up a testing ground for myself, three coal mines making me a million and a half each year.
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00:27<ccfreak2k>Testing station throughput?
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03:09<Terkhen>good morning
03:14<andythenorth>mornign
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03:27<planetmaker>moin
03:28<@peter1138>hello
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03:29<@peter1138>08:29 Irssi uptime: 229d 11h 59m 31s
03:29<@peter1138>hurr
03:30*andythenorth wishes Bananas had a 'what changed?' text field
03:30<andythenorth>when adding a new version
03:30<planetmaker>:-)
03:30<planetmaker>you changed it once, you change it now ;-)
03:31<planetmaker>and woosh you go and implement bananas 1.5
03:32<andythenorth>FISH FISH FISH FISH FISH
03:32<andythenorth>And they ate lots of FISH
03:32*peter1138 wonders what to do with a DV cam
03:32<ccfreak2k>andythenorth, if only there was a log of such changes.
03:32<ccfreak2k>I would call it...a changelog.
03:33-!-NoobCp [~kvirc@4.63.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
03:33<andythenorth>funny
03:33<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org:81/projects/fish/repository/entry/docs/changelog.txt
03:33<andythenorth>meanwhile, FISH 0.4 now on bananas
03:33<andythenorth>I tested it not at all extensively so I may have broke it
03:35<planetmaker>o/
03:38<andythenorth>ha ha, lead@inbox has just sent me the render for a fricking enormous passenger hovercraft :D
03:38<planetmaker>:-)
03:38<andythenorth>it *may* overlap the depot, but we'll take that chance
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03:41<andythenorth>http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&ll=50.8079483664028,-1.2096360325813293&z=19
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03:52<andythenorth>how much does a passenger weigh in openttd?
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03:55<@peter1138>62.6 kg
03:56<@peter1138>as do bubbles
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03:59<andythenorth>@calc 410*.0626
03:59<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 25.666
03:59*andythenorth has a set balancing problem
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04:00*andythenorth wonders if 'screw it' will solve the problem
04:02<planetmaker>hm, how did I enable the newgrf debug mode?
04:12<planetmaker>andythenorth: you know that^ :-)
04:16<planetmaker>nvm :-)
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05:42<TrueBrain>everytime I have the idea the amount of downloads go down, there comes anohter wave of downloads ...
05:42<Alberth>perhaps we should stop making new releases...
05:43<TrueBrain>http://www.baixaki.com.br/download/openttd.htm and http://www.gsbrazil.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1621 were to blame yesterday
05:46<TrueBrain>passed the 100,000 downloads for 1.0.0 .. how nice :)
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05:47<Alberth>the game basically sells itself, it was and still is, an addictive game
05:47<TrueBrain>very very true
05:47<TrueBrain>and our webservices are more or less stable :) Also very nice :)
05:47<@Rubidium>115k bananas downloads yesterday (55 GiB)
05:48<@Rubidium>quite a jump from 87k bananas downloads which was the previous 'record'
05:48<TrueBrain>and almost no complains about the http implementation :)
05:48<@Rubidium>oh, it was only 49 GiB, not 55
05:49<Alberth>such numbers are really too big to imagine what is happening at the servers.
05:49<TrueBrain>I still remember someone saying it wouldn't be simple to make a http component ;)
05:49<@Rubidium>"only" 80-85% goes over the http
05:49<TrueBrain>what was that value in december?
05:50<TrueBrain>I believe 55%?
05:50<TrueBrain>@calc 1018379 / 3600 / 24
05:50<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 11.7867939815
05:50*Alberth gives TB a big hug for making such a nice server system
05:50<TrueBrain>11 hits per second on the httpd .. that did decrease after the slashdot :p
05:50<TrueBrain>Alberth: Rubidium helped too
05:51*Alberth gives RB also a big, well-deserved hug
05:51<TrueBrain>1M hits per day
05:52<Alberth>not bad for a bunch of volunteers :p
05:52<DanMacK>Refresh my memory, it's been awhile - How do I chat in MP again?
05:52<@Rubidium><enter>
05:52<DanMacK>thanks :D
05:52<TrueBrain>0.35M hits per day go to the django instance .. impressive performance ..
05:53<TrueBrain>owh, that number is wrong .. just 0.06M goes to django
05:53<TrueBrain>that is more what I would expect :p
05:53<TrueBrain>0.45M goes to media.openttd.org :)
05:53<Alberth>@calc 0.06*1000*1000 / (24 * 60 * 60)
05:53<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 0.694444444444
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05:53<@Rubidium>70% of "OpenTTD" bandwidth is taken over by the mirrors, so 30% for our main server (which now uses about 60% of its bandwidth for HTTP over 70% on April 1st); 130 GiB of traffic a day
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05:55<TrueBrain>I am very happy we moved media. away from the django instance .. it would not have survived, if I have to guess :p
05:56<TrueBrain>wiki: 397k, bug: 19k
05:57<@Rubidium>one or two days of this traffic and the 30 day average of bananas downloads exceeds the 1.0.0-beta1 peak :)
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06:02<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/stats.pdf <- nice graphs (without legenda)
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07:01*DanMacK would much rather be playing TTD
07:02<@Rubidium>then do so!
07:02*DanMacK is at work... No TTD here... :(
07:03<@Rubidium>so, take your TTD CD to work
07:03<DanMacK>I wish
07:03*andythenorth is fitting lights to this http://www.peeron.com/inv/sets/8275-1
07:03<Ammler>install it (no admin required) ;-
07:03*DanMacK can't play, so he will sprite
07:04<DanMacK>Andy, That looks cool!
07:05<Chris_Booth>DanMacK: you put it on a flash drive
07:06<Chris_Booth>then make sure you remember ATL + F4 to close it fast if someone sees you playing
07:07<DanMacK>We have terminals, no actual tower :P
07:08<Chris_Booth>DanMacK: now be resourceful, you must have some cars near by
07:08<Chris_Booth>steel a car battery and a transformer to 240v or 120v
07:08<Chris_Booth>and connect it to you PC lol
07:08<DanMacK>there we go :P
07:08<Chris_Booth>i am not condoning theft
07:09<Mazur>OIr use a laptop as a terminal.
07:09<Chris_Booth>maz my way is more fun
07:09<Mazur>May way is easier, and as I'm inherently lazy...
07:09<elmz_>hm, the new loading algorithm for loading trains is a bit flawed...it lowers your cargo rating a bit :/
07:11<elmz_>on one station I hade 100%/100% with old algorithm, then it was lowered to 89%94% with the new algorithm...
07:13<Chris_Booth>elmz_: but it does give better nework balance
07:13<elmz_>true
07:14<@Rubidium>elmz_: the old algorithm is flawed too
07:14<elmz_>haha, true that ^^ even more so ^^
07:14<@Rubidium>and one can consider the old algorithm even more flawed
07:15<@Rubidium>because it could lower your rating even more by having all trans wanting to depart at the same time causing even more cargo to get stockpiled
07:16<elmz_>wow, this really makes me want to try to improve the algorithm ^^
07:16<Chris_Booth>old loading would be rubish on huge stations that trains needed to full load at
07:16<Chris_Booth>i never used to use more than 2 platforms with ques to stop rating droping
07:16<@Rubidium>elmz_: good luck with that
07:17<elmz_>I don't have the tools or skills, sadly ;/
07:17<@Rubidium>remember: you only know about the cargo already at the station, so you have to spread that over trains so they get loaded in FIFO order
07:17<Chris_Booth>elmz_: you wouldnt want a perfect algorithm anyway
07:17<elmz_>no, all algorithms would have drawbacks
07:18<@Rubidium>what probably could help is disabling gradual loading
07:18<@Rubidium>or enable it, but make the vehicles take as much cargo as possible
07:18<@Rubidium>instead of only 5 or so per cycle
07:19<elmz_>it should be possible to select separate loading algorithms for every station ^^
07:20<elmz_>you want different behaviour from a goods station and a passenger station.
07:21<elmz_>strict FIFO would be good at a goods station, you never know how long it is until the next steel train. but at a passenger station there will be more cargo next tick (at least for large towns)
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>i think there needs to be a "pre-waiting area" where cargo is gathered for a few ticks first
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>to avoid odd behaviour at passenger stations, that the train waits for a full load even though it isn't scheduled to do so
07:24<elmz_>yeah, that sucks ^^ if 1 passenger arrives each tick a train without full load will still wait forever ^^
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07:32<planetmaker>elmz_: only till fully loaded ;-)
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07:33<elmz_>that would be virtually an eternity with 1 passenger/tick ;)
07:33<@Rubidium>not nearly as long as a 100 part (50 tile) train on a 1 tile station loading 1 passenger per cycle
07:35-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4660.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
07:35<elmz_>^^
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07:41<xintron>Is there a way to make the text bigger in-game somehow (running windowed mode 1920x1080 and the text is damn small)
07:42<planetmaker>what?
07:42<planetmaker>you might want to look at your openttd.cfg
07:42<planetmaker>text sizes are defined in there
07:42<xintron>so, no way to change it "in-game"?
07:43<planetmaker>nope
07:43<@Rubidium>no(, not yet)
07:43<xintron>ok :)
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07:44<@Rubidium>though the font's fine for me on 1920x1200 (15")
07:44<xintron>what parameter is it?
07:44<xintron>15" monitor?
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07:45<@Rubidium>xintron: ..._font and ..._size (where ... is small, medium or large)
07:46<Jupix>the font's unreadable on 2560x1600 viewed from 150cm away :P
07:46<xintron>well, I've got a problem reading it on my screen onli 40cm away :P
07:50<xintron>what's the default font then?
07:51<@Rubidium>a fixed size pixel font
07:51<xintron>any normal font similar to that font?
07:51<xintron>verdana, helvetica?
07:52<xintron>or, nvm, I'll stay with this setup (only some text that's hard to read
07:59<__ln__>two quite different opinions about ash: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340708/grounded-airline-fears-ash-damage-from-quick-return-to.html http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/18/340745/klm-737-test-flight-indicates-no-volcanic-ash-risk.html
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08:43<Peping>hi :)
08:44<Alberth>hi
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10:27<Peping>anybody here willing to help me design new kind of goal server for OpenTTD? Enough imagination and AbiWord will do for me :)
10:28<Peping>I can even wait for you to download AbiWord.. I just need somebody to brainstorm with me :)
10:28<Peping>I'm just making a design document :)
10:28<Peping>query me if interested
10:29<Alberth>best way may be to make a thread at the forums
10:30-!-bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd
10:30<Peping>not registered@forums.. But maybe you're right..
10:30<Peping>If nobody writes back in 30 minutes.. I'll register at the forums
10:32<Alberth>before you spoke, the last talk here was 1h, 40m ago
10:33<Peping>that's right.. But I guess if you noticed this, anybody else will probably notice it too :) And 1h 40m ago was me coming in and saying "hi" to you :)
10:34<Alberth>I was having a discussion in the window below this one :)
10:34<Peping>oh... I guess you're right then... :|
10:35*Rubidium wonders how to interpret that question
10:36<@Rubidium>either you've got some idea, but you've not written anything down... or you've got no ideas yet, you just want to run a goal server because they are popular
10:36<Peping>I do have an idea and I have written something down.
10:37<Peping>And this idea is far from the servers already existing..
10:37<Peping>But I need somebody to think of improvements and faulties in my writing
10:38<Alberth>s/ties/ts/ :)
10:38<Peping>*faults
10:38<Peping>i know..
10:40<@Rubidium>oh, the better of the two cases :)
10:41<@Rubidium>and have you made the most important design decision already? Custom clients or standard (stable) clients?
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10:43<Peping>standard clients, to make it suitable for most players. The game will not require any special grfs or anything.. Maybe in future releases, but not probably. But yet I'm not sure if one thing is possible and I have not looked through the source to find out yet. Can server spend player's money?
10:44<Peping>I wouldn't say so, just asking
10:44<Peping>(oops, double "yet" in one sentence.. sry :) )
10:46<@Rubidium>a server can spend a player's money as long as the player has money and there's something to spend it on
10:46<@Rubidium>e.g. a tile to clear or so
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>the server can send money from one company to another
10:47<@Rubidium>if the player has no loan the server can also send a "donate money" command to send money to another company
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>"has no loan" or "bank balance is over loan"?
10:48<@Rubidium>you can't send loaned money
10:49<Peping>right... So if I want to spend huge amounts of money, the best solution would be to send the money from a player to a protected company created by the server for that purpose.
10:49<Peping>Am I correct?
10:50<Peping>*spend amounts of money belonging to a client
10:50<Peping>I mean to a player
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes
10:50<Peping>ok thanks a lot.
10:51<frosch123>when you start the server you can create a dummy company with some billions of money
10:51<Peping>that's what I wanted to do :)
10:51<frosch123>but you cannot increase its funds while other clients are connected
10:51<planetmaker>Peping: make sure you actually develop (also) for trunk ;-)
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>you can start the game in single player, cheat money, and load that savegame in multiplayer
10:51<planetmaker>thus it might be more sustainable development
10:53<Alberth>using a dummy company sounds a bit hackish to me
10:53<Peping>Eddi|zuHause: that would become difficult If I ran in on a dedicated server with no display.. (which is what I want to actually do). I'll try to figure it all out from the source :)
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can likely hack it to be able to cheat while no clients are connected yet
10:54<Peping>Alberth: it indeed is.. But seems like the only way according to what was said
10:54<Alberth>Peping: with all sources, it is never the only way.
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: the difficulty is the premise to use unchanged clients
10:55<Peping>Alberth: ditto
10:55<Alberth>all clients eventually use trunk :)
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but that requires additional development criteria like code quality and feautre desirability for inclusion
10:56<Peping>hey.. I've got enough time to solve these problems.. Now I need somebody with a creative mind to help me finish the design document.. Anybody? :)
10:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19670 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add CeilDiv() and RoundDiv() to simplify integer divisions with rounding.
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>it's by far not trivial ;)
10:57<Alberth>Peping: I do intend to do some messing around with scripted control of the world. However that is a tad bigger than your goal. Also I don't have time to do that now.
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: have you ever looked at the game balance branch to see if some parts of the fixed-point calculation logic can be salvaged?
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11:01<frosch123>yes, it contained a lot of template mess, which could be done a lot simpler.
11:03<frosch123>i once wrote some fixedpoint stuff to simplify tgp, but it did not really simplify it :p
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, TGP is some isolated piece of code, probably not worth it, but what about stuff like acceleration logic?
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>or payments in values <1£
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11:18<Phurl>hi
11:18<Phurl>anyone awake
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11:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: problem is that all those unit conversions are scattered over the code. and inbetween fractional units are passed as integers though generic interfaces (e.g. SetDParam) and reinterpreted fractional on the other again. while this works fine, it makes implicit conversions integer -> fractional impossible
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11:34<OwenS>Speaking of fractional, does OpenTTD use floating point anywhere?
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>not in 99% of the code
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>multiplayer can't use floating point
11:36<OwenS>Indeed
11:36<@peter1138>tgp uses fp
11:36<Ammler>seems to be a glitch with company colors in RC1
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>rounding causes desyncs
11:36<OwenS>Hmm... If you're thinking about fixed point, I could cook a very handy template classes :)
11:37<OwenS>(Considering theres an awful lot of useful math functions that would be needed)
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>we could use a library for algebraic numbers ;)
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>since these are countable, they can be represented without approximation ;)
11:38<OwenS>Sounds slow ;-)
11:38<@peter1138>Ammler, bugs. ...
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11:45<frosch123>[17:37] <OwenS> (Considering theres an awful lot of useful math functions that would be needed) <- hehe, but that is actually not the case. in most cases the fractional character of the fractional numbers does not matter
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11:46<frosch123>at least my approaches failed due to that
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11:49<OwenS>Its gotta be said though, fixed point is possible in C++. It's absolutely horrid in C :p
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11:58<frosch123>sure, you can write a nice template, which deals with multiplication, division, addition, assigning, comparison etc. with mixed size fixed point numbers. and i am sure it will look splendid. just, such stuff is not used/needed anywhere in ottd :p
12:00<OwenS>Hehe
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah the "problem" is that most operations are just trivially the same as integer operations
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12:04<OwenS>Not really
12:04<OwenS>Multiplication and division are not, for example
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>fixed*integer is the same
12:05<OwenS>Sure, but fixed*fixed is not
12:05<OwenS>They also end up being an area where you end up grumbling, because the compiler generates stupid code
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>but like frosch123 said, fixed*fixed is used nowhere...
12:06<OwenS>("Lets promote this integer to 64-bits, promote the other one, push them both onto the stack, call the 64-bit multiplication support routine, push the result onto the stack, push a shift factor, call the 64-bit shift support routine")
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure what you're trying to tell us here
12:08<OwenS>Nothing. I'm just venting my frustrations at idiot compilers :p
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>of course multiplying two 32bit integers is going to result in a 64 bit integer
12:10<OwenS>Thing is, rather than doing a 32x32->64 mul, the compiler does a 64x64->64 operation via the support library...
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13:13<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19671 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp gfx.cpp terraform_gui.cpp): -Fix (r19670): RoundDiv() needs to deal with signed numerators.
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13:32<Rhamphoryncus>Mmmm fixed point
13:32<Rhamphoryncus>(hey look, I can talk!)
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19672 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: czech - 8 changes by Harlequin
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: latvian - 30 changes by nobody
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14:23<Eddi|zuHause>was there ever a coop game with PBI?
14:24<frosch123>hmm, should there really be one line per articulated vehicle in roadvehicle details?
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14:24<frosch123>(for trains the cargo is summed up per wagon)
14:25<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: yes, there were
14:25<planetmaker>several actually
14:26<planetmaker>I recall due to stockpile limits supplying to stations which were WAY out of the coverage area
14:26<planetmaker>or something along those lines
14:26<planetmaker>We managed to fill the stockpiles of at least 7 sawmills.
14:26<planetmaker>And then further couldn't be builded due to building restrictions
14:26<planetmaker>but don't ask me for the game number ;-)
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>i guess the "interesting" part is not filling the stockpiles, but having the right balance e.g. with steel mills
14:28<planetmaker>well. But what to do with all the wood then?
14:28<planetmaker>steel mill doesn't want it ;-)
14:29<planetmaker>at least that game was an exercise in the rules how cargo is distributed and accepted and delivered within openttd
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14:32<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: just force trains to unload
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14:32<Ammler>and use another order to load excess goods
14:32<Peping>o hai ^_^
14:32<Ammler>cargo*
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i once did that with coal, and delivered the excess coal to a power station
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14:33<Eddi|zuHause>i need to play through a game with cargodist and PBI...
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>whenever i start, i get side tracked, and then cargodist is out of date, and not savegame compatible...
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14:35<SpComb>such is life without savegame compat
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>it's really the biggest drawback of cargodist
14:35<SpComb>my current game is r18870...
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>i want the miniin back :(
14:36<SpComb>how did miniin do it?
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>by special macros
14:36<SpComb>I heard some magical rumours about them having rolling backwards compat
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:36<@Rubidium>they weren't that special
14:36<@Rubidium>and yes, they generally only supported the last 2-3 MiniIN savegame versions
14:37<SpComb>http://git.qmsk.net/?p=openttd;a=blob;f=src/saveload/saveload.h;h=1329783e812fa22f46deb9069c425ff0ec761a6c;hb=refs/heads/cargodist-sprinkles#l339
14:37<SpComb>that's the "magic" that I use
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, it was basically "INTRODUCE_VERSION=max(PATCH_INTRODUCE_VERSION,CURRENT_TRUNK_VERSION+1)"
14:37<SpComb>and then ` 52 extern const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = (SLV_NEXT - 1);`
14:37<@Rubidium>so if you needed more than those 2-3 savegame versions you had to download some intermediate version
14:37<elmz_>lol, people are gullible ^^ I just killed 1800 passengers in a train crash, one large advertising campaign and they love me again ^^
14:38<Alberth>you murdered the entire town :p
14:38<Peping>we should add something like people's trust to the company
14:38<SpComb>(lightly adapted from what cargodist has)
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: but "SL_TRUNK+x" doesn't work properly if there's a trunk version bump
14:42<@Rubidium>yeah, that savegame stuff doesn't look like it'll do the right thing
14:43<@Rubidium>because you don't "sacrifice" older savegame versions
14:44<elmz_>Alberth: yes I did, and £45000 was all it took to make up for it ^^
14:45<elmz_>0.04% of my company value ^^
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14:54<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: define properly
14:54<SpComb>there's no mention of compat across patched versions
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: if you merge a trunk version bump, you move all patch introduction versions, instead of throwing away the last one
14:55<SpComb>yes
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: hence the whole construction is senseless, you can set all values to "trunk+1"
14:55<SpComb>sure
14:57<SpComb>it's mainly to make merges easier, less fooling around in settings.h and saveload.c
14:58<SpComb>http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/cgi-bin/gitweb.pl?p=openttd.git;a=blob;f=src/saveload/saveload.h;h=ad11c5ac3fddfa1b4d49399e4db5e925ae44b524;hb=cd#l339
14:59<SpComb>the only thing it provides is loading of trunk savegames
14:59<@Rubidium>savegame compatability and easier merges are mutually exclusive :)
15:01<OwenS>Hey... What does rebuilding roads do to tiles with road and tram lines? Ignore them?
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15:02<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: it blocks them, why?
15:02<OwenS>Wondering if it affected tram networks too :p
15:02<fonsinchen>Indeed the system I have in place makes merging easier
15:03<fonsinchen>But it makes savegame compatibility between different versions of cargodist harder
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: actually it shouldn't, it just needs to be done once
15:04<fonsinchen>I haven't quite understood the miniin system yet
15:04<fonsinchen>I remember I gave it a look once and thought "I my god, I'll be fiddling with those savegame versions for the rest of my life when I start that"
15:04<fonsinchen>So I didn't
15:04<fonsinchen>but I don't remember the details.
15:05<OwenS>fonsinchen: At least you can use OpenTTD's SL version handling to help out
15:05<fonsinchen>How do you mean that?
15:05<fonsinchen>I do use it
15:05<OwenS>Progsigs has to deal with a binary blob :p
15:06<fonsinchen>The only thing I do is define SL versions ahead of trunk to make loading trunk savegames possible.
15:07<OwenS>Yeah, my issue is that none of the save game version helpers are available because they can't work with variable sized chunks
15:07<fonsinchen>What exactly are you trying to do?
15:08<OwenS>Save signal programs. Instructions have different sizes, so I don't know the size until Ive built the data
15:08<OwenS>So I end up with a custom binary blob in the middle of the save file
15:08<fonsinchen>and how is that related to cargodist?
15:09<OwenS>Its related to save game versioning
15:09<OwenS>Cargodist may have it difficult... Progsigs has it worse
15:09<fonsinchen>ah, ok
15:10<OwenS>I should probably investigate implementing an SlWriteBytes
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16:09<Arthur_>hello
16:11*andythenorth goes for an adventure in the world of LEDs
16:11<Terkhen>hi Arthur_
16:14<planetmaker>hi Arthur_ the other one ;-)
16:15<Arthur_>^^
16:15<Arthur_>is a team member online?^^
16:16<Alberth>of what team?
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16:16<Arthur_>Open TTD^^
16:17<Arthur_>Alberth you are^^
16:18<Alberth>oh, you mean a dev? there are several online
16:18<Alberth>(you could also mean a team member of a team of one of the MP servers)
16:18<Arthur_>First thanks, the game is very good i love it, but will be come a version with better graphics, i mean i like the original grafiks, but it gives more opportunities now ?
16:19<Arthur_>i saw the 32bbp version but it doesnt goes and i didnt think its aktually oR^^?
16:19<Alberth>Well, I did only a *very* small part of the development ;)
16:20<Alberth>I don't understand your other question
16:20<Alberth>what is "more opportunities" ?
16:21<Alberth>as for 32bpp, OpenTTD supports it, there are just a lot of graphics missing.
16:21<Arthur_>i mean 2010 you can make bigger sprites and it gives blender, so i think its possible to make better graphict
16:21<Arthur_>but i get a errow after installing from 32bbp :(
16:21<Arthur_>error^^
16:22<Alberth>oh, yes that would be possible, as long as you stick to the 2D isometric view
16:23<Alberth>I never tried 32bpp. There are some wiki pages about it, but that is all I know
16:23*andythenorth never tried 32bpp
16:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19673 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp:
16:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Optimize calculation of graph grid size (method by Alberth).
16:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix: Remove a gcc 3.3 warning.
16:24<Alberth>There may also be a forum about 32bpp development.
16:24<Terkhen>I tried it once, it was impossible to get all sprites without checking a lot of threads :/
16:24<Arthur_>yes but all english its so hart to read that all
16:25<Arthur_>hard^^
16:25<Alberth>practice makes perfect
16:26<Alberth>there is not much I can do about that, I am afraid.
16:26<Arthur_>mhh ok but thanks^^
16:27<Arthur_>is the 32bbp version actually?
16:27<Alberth>but you are not the only person having trouble with english. Just join the crowd ?
16:28<Alberth>don't exactly understand that question
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16:29<Arthur_>Open TTD is now version 1.0.1 RC or something, i mean is the 32bbp version too?
16:30<Alberth>32bpp graphics packs don't even exist as a complete release as far as I know
16:31<Arthur_>yes but it has a own .exe file
16:31<Alberth>oh. no it has not.
16:32<Alberth>it is just a (set of?) data files that you put in some data directory, just like OpenGFX
16:32<Arthur_>nono it has h exe-file
16:32<Alberth>and you must configure somewhere that you want to use 32bpp I think.
16:32<Alberth>oh? that's new for me.
16:33<planetmaker>Alberth: the 32bpp blitter, is it needed for 32bpp?
16:33<planetmaker>I never tried...
16:33<Alberth>planetmaker: I don't think a 8bpp blitter will work :)
16:33<planetmaker>Alberth: then it needs indeed changing the cfg from the default value
16:34<planetmaker>manually :-)
16:34<planetmaker>or is 32bpp default? I don't think (except OSX)
16:35<planetmaker>Arthur_: there's indeed some separate binaries for a patched "extra zoom levels" patch.
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16:35<Alberth>Arthur_: http://wiki.openttd.org/32bit_Graphics_Development is your starting point at the wiki
16:35<planetmaker>Many of the 32bpp people make graphics for that
16:35<planetmaker>But 32bpp is not necessarily tied to the extra zoom levels.
16:36<Arthur_>aso, becouse i am a graphic artist too, i wont help but first i will try and it doesnt goes
16:37<Arthur_>oh i start it and in bugreport stand:
16:37<Arthur_>Configuration:
16:37<Arthur_> Blitter: 8bpp-optimized
16:37<Arthur_> Graphics set: original_windows
16:37<Arthur_> Language: german.lng
16:37<Arthur_> Music driver: dmusic
16:37<Arthur_> Music set: NoMusic
16:37<Arthur_> Network: no
16:37<Arthur_> Sound driver: win32
16:37<Arthur_> Sound set: NoSound
16:38<Arthur_> Video driver: win32
16:38<Arthur_>the blitter is still 8bpp -.-
16:38<Arthur_>but can this maces the crash?
16:39<Arthur_>makes -.-
16:40<planetmaker>Blitter: 32bpp-anim
16:40<Arthur_>?
16:40<Arthur_>in command line?
16:40<planetmaker>You'll need - afaik - the alternative graphics set for the 32bpp extensio to work
16:40<planetmaker>Arthur_: edit your cfg with a text editor
16:40<planetmaker>yes
16:40<planetmaker>the required graphics base set can be downloaded from ingame
16:41<Arthur_>? wich cfg?
16:41<Alberth>openttd.cfg
16:41<planetmaker>and selected in the same screen where you chose... German ;-)
16:41<planetmaker>C:\Documente und Einstellungen\Arthur\Eigene Dateien\ØpenTTD oder so ähnlich.
16:42<planetmaker>err... English only ;-)
16:42<Arthur_>^^
16:42<SmatZ>ØpenTTD, what? :D
16:42<planetmaker>:-) Double key. I don't know which ;-)
16:42<planetmaker>Ah. Alt+O
16:43<planetmaker>instead of shift
16:43<planetmaker>looks nice, though ;-)
16:43<SmatZ>pʇʇuǝdo
16:43<SmatZ>:)
16:43<planetmaker>:-P
16:43<SmatZ>:-b
16:43<planetmaker>lool :-) Freak!
16:44*planetmaker hugs SmatZ
16:44<Alberth>SmatZ: b-:
16:44*SmatZ hugs planetmaker :)
16:44<SmatZ>d-:
16:44-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:44<SmatZ>¡ʞɐǝɹɟ (-: ןooן
16:44<planetmaker>:-O
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17:02<Arthur_>can anybody help me: http://paste.openttd.org/225674
17:02<Arthur_>i got this crush and i dont know why
17:04<SmatZ>I got a crush, Arthur_
17:04<SmatZ>on you <3
17:05<Arthur_>?
17:05<Terkhen>:D
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17:07<planetmaker>lalala :-)
17:07<SmatZ>:)
17:07<SmatZ>Arthur_: you compiled it yourself, right?
17:08<SmatZ>did you include any patches?
17:08<Arthur_>i mean crash^^ no i didnt i have download it
17:08<SmatZ>Arthur_: from where?
17:08<Arthur_>+its the 32bpp versin
17:08<SmatZ>hmm it's not official, you know
17:08<SmatZ>report it to the tt-forums thread
17:09*SpComb idly wonders why the 32bpp builds have such a version info
17:09<Arthur_>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=853845#p853845
17:10<Arthur_>from there i downloadet
17:11<planetmaker>http://szvengar.free.fr/openttd/OpenTTD-32bpp-r19600-win32.rar <-- there's a newer one. No idea about its quality
17:12<planetmaker>I don't attribute the best skills to the author of the posting you pointed to ;-)
17:13<Arthur_>ok it goes now^^
17:16<Arthur_>thanks
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17:18<frosch123>http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=4628&pid=62999#pid62999 <- how boring :p
17:19<planetmaker>:-) I very much chuckled at your answer there
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17:32<Terkhen>good night
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17:32<planetmaker>g'night Terkhen
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17:50<frosch123>night
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18:02<Phurl>OpenTTD is an Open Source clone of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
18:02<Phurl>that is this channel?
18:03<planetmaker>yep
18:03<Phurl>i would like to know if it would be possible to add in an import of openstreetmap for simulationg of a real ciry
18:03<Phurl>city
18:03<Phurl>i have been working on a blender import
18:03<planetmaker>sure it's possible.
18:03<Phurl>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfXB59HYdrw
18:03<planetmaker>but who does the work?
18:03<Phurl>well i have started on blender
18:03<Phurl>it works somewhat
18:03<devilsadvocate>how on blender?
18:03<planetmaker>and what do you want to import?
18:04<planetmaker>what scale? etc
18:04<Phurl>streets
18:04<Phurl>at some scale that they are recognisable
18:04<Phurl>and usable
18:05*devilsadvocate still does not get what you want to import to/from blender
18:05<Phurl>openstreetmap.org
18:05<Phurl>data
18:05<Phurl>maps of cities
18:05<devilsadvocate>Phurl, afaik blender is used to create individual tiles
18:05<devilsadvocate>maps are different
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18:07<Phurl>ok
18:07<Phurl>understand
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21:08<Eddi|zuHause>from the category "songs that don't make any sense":
21:09<Eddi|zuHause># Someone left the cake out in the rain
21:09<Eddi|zuHause># I don't think that I can take it
21:09<Eddi|zuHause># 'Cause it took so long to bake it
21:09<Eddi|zuHause># And I'll never have that recipe again
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21:39<DDR>O_o
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