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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-22

---Logopened Thu Apr 22 00:00:03 2010
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01:21<planetmaker>good morning
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02:23<Terkhen>good morning
02:36<@Rubidium>good morning, how art thou today?
02:44<Terkhen>a bit sleepy :)
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03:38<andythenorth>@calc 16017 & 5
03:38<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
03:38<andythenorth>@calc 16017 * 5
03:38<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 80085
03:38<@peter1138>* is a valid number? :D
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03:48<Mazur>Which OpenTTD auto updater works on Unix?
03:49<planetmaker>it requires a shell, most probably a bash
03:49<planetmaker>so it should also work on linux and OSX
03:50<Mazur>It is, however, conspicuously absent from the indicated place: svn://
03:53<Mazur>svn: URL '' doesn't exist
03:55<Terkhen>openttdcoop, not openttd
03:56*Mazur thwaps himself.
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04:00<Mazur>It does indeed seem to work a little better that way.
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04:11<Ammler>Mazur: feel free to commit patches or whatever, no idea, how it works on other systems with other servers...
04:13<Mazur>If ever I need to do that, you will of course be informed.
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04:14<Mazur>For now I just want to make a script to get into a coop gsame and automagically do all the prerequisites as necessary.
04:16<Ammler>it still breaks with newgrfs...
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04:50<Ammler>on the download page, you link to the trac readme, imo is nicer
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05:19<@Rubidium>but... svn over http caused lighty to break
05:20<TrueBrain>lucky it is over apache :p
05:20<@Rubidium>yeah,now it may not matter that much anymore
05:21<Ammler>he, another advantage of the trac version is that you can link to a certain line
05:22<@Rubidium>oh yes, people are complaining about seeing the IPv6 logo "extra" when they don't use IPv6
05:22<Ammler>osai should make you a nicer trac logo
05:22<TrueBrain>Rubidium: really?
05:23<TrueBrain>haha, it is always shown .. who breaks it :p
05:23<@Rubidium>either nginx fcgi or I did
05:23<TrueBrain>I just blame you
05:23<TrueBrain>easier like that
05:24<@Rubidium>but then should be broken
05:24<Ammler>can't remember seeing that, so souldn't be long broken :-)
05:25<TrueBrain>your memory is indeed our method of determining length of brokeness :p
05:25<Ammler>isn't it?
05:26<Ammler>I never saw that before :-P
05:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: done
05:26<@peter1138>your length is indeed our method of determining brokenness of memory
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08:25<Cadde>Please help me grasp this right. If i make a class in C# whose only purpose is to act as an int and my idea of how to do this is: [public static implicit operator MyInt(int i) { return i; }
08:25<Cadde>How should i go at making it actually work
08:26<Cadde>since i get stack overflow errors (for obvious reasons)
08:26<blathijs_>Is there any reason to assume anyone here knows C# ? :-)
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08:26<Sacro>wha? the point of that being?
08:26<Sacro>blathijs: i'm yet to discover if anyone here knows C! :)
08:26<Cadde>No but i assume C and C# are the same but possibly different on these two subjects ;)
08:27<Sacro>Cadde: what would be the point?
08:27<Cadde>Sacro: The point would be to have other functionality assigned with it.
08:27<Cadde>Not to mention it is inherited
08:28<Sacro>why not just use an int?
08:28<Cadde>The question is HOW not WHY i would though. If you have another solution that does the same thing then please tell me =)
08:28<Cadde>Sacro: Because i can't ok? I just can't
08:29*Cadde hides something
08:29<Cadde>I just need to make it work
08:29<Eddi|zuHause><Cadde> No but i assume C and C# are the same <-- yeah, the same like a motorbike and a helicopter...
08:30<Noldo>C++ is closer to C#
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>they both have an engine and run on fuel...
08:30<Cadde>Eddi|zuHause: A motorbike flies for a while if you want it to
08:30<Cadde>I still would very much like to hear about a solution to the problem.
08:31<Cadde>How do i make an int class.
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>but you are in a very wrong place to get this answer
08:31<Cadde>Eddi|zuHause: Doesn't hurt to try
08:31<Noldo>it might
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>what i mean is: you are just asking a biker gang how to build a helicopter
08:32<Cadde>Fine... I'll go look someplace else...
08:34<Sacro>Cadde: ##csharp on freenode
08:35<Cadde>Sacro: thanks
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08:42<Eddi|zuHause> <-- to whom it may concern (knowledge in german might be useful) :p
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09:41<planetmaker> <-- I'm not quite sure what point ChillCore is trying to make
09:41<planetmaker>I'm quite sure though that he's missing my point there...
09:41<planetmaker>or don't I understand him?
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause>i definitely don't understand either of you...
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13:00<Turgid>Wow I just noticed the Improved Loading Algorithm option. That should be default!
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13:06<Yakuzing>I believe it is.
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13:07<james>Are there any limits on the type of object a vector can contain?
13:07<Turgid>Well it was turned off for me...
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13:07<Guest911>vector<string> works, but vector<MyClass> doesn't
13:08<__ln__>what is "doesn't work"?
13:09<Guest911>When I compile, I get a very long error message
13:09<Terkhen>Guest911: the message will tell you what happens
13:09<Terkhen>(when you google it)
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13:27<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19693 /trunk/src/network/ (core/tcp_game.h network_server.cpp): -Codechange: split STATUS_INACTIVE to two states
13:27<TrueBrain>which 2? :p
13:28<@SmatZ>the message looked strange
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13:29<@SmatZ>doesn't even look like a sentence
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19694 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt luxembourgish.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt polish.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: greek - 8 changes by vesnikos
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 1 changes by Phreeze
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by 2rB
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: polish - 16 changes by xine
13:45<TrueBrain>thank you WT3.0 :)
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13:57<Turgid>I wish there was a "load some" order. I don't want them to leave empty, but I don't necessarily want them to wait for a full load. This is probably not a common problem though.
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13:58<@peter1138>well you can use timetabling to make them wait a little bit, but...
14:00<Turgid>Yeah that's what I've done, it's better than nothing.
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14:02<Turgid>Of course then if there does happen to be a full load, they wait around in the station for awhile before delivering it.
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14:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm... what a rare sight nowadays :p
14:14<@Belugas>a newby :)
14:14<@Belugas>and a goneby
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14:19<james_>Can class MyClass contain vector<MyClass>?
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14:21<Yexo>not sure, but it can contain a vector<MyClass*>
14:22*SmatZ wonders why is there std::move
14:22<@SmatZ>when there could be something like "operator <-"
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14:26<james_>I can't get it to work with vector<MyClass*> either
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14:28<james_>I have in the header class MyClass { public: vector<MyClass> myvector; };
14:28<james_>Then, in a method of MyClass, "MyClass m; myvector.push_back(m);"
14:29<@Rubidium>no copy constructor?
14:30<__ln__>Rubidium: irrelevant
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14:32<james_>Putting "MyClass m; myvector.push_back(m);" in a constructor is silly, but I haven't put it in a constructor
14:32<@SmatZ>james_: what does the compiler say?
14:32<james_>About ten screens
14:33<@SmatZ>something about recursive template instantiation?
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14:34<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19695 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: leaking a file descriptor
14:36<james_>I don't see anything on template or instantiation, but I do see something about copy constructors
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14:46<james_>Any idea?
14:49<@SmatZ>james_: works for me
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15:09<james_>I declared an fstream in the header!
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15:31<__ln__>oh my, i thought it ceased to exist over 20 years ago, but now it's here.
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15:41<Eddi|zuHause>and it took you two months to come up with this joke?
15:41<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19696 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3781]: Avoid showing building toolbars behind the main toolbar when the "Link landscape toolbar" setting is active.
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15:47<JostVice>sup guys, just discovered the awesome world of openttd and i'm struggling with a problem. is it possible to connect a train station to a city with a bus station? orders of train and bus at that station should be 'transfer'?
15:47<JostVice>i guess the idea also translates to boats and planes
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>JostVice: yes and no
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>transfers can only work one way, so you can transfer people from the bus to train, or from train to bus, but not both
15:49<JostVice>ummmm so what would be the ideal thing
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>JostVice: in the order window, you have options for "load" and "unload", set this to "transfer and leave empty"
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>the train station should accept passengers, and the busses should be set to transfer
15:50<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: i don't pay attention to people who don't talk, usually
15:50<JostVice>that for both?
15:50<JostVice>or only for bus
15:50<OwenS>JostVice: only the bus
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>no, only bus should use transfer at the train station
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>all other orders should be normal (or full load)
15:51<JostVice>i'm supposed to connect with bus train stations that aren't directly in the center of the city?
15:52<JostVice>I mean, the stations have no passenger, when the city has 4k+
15:52<JostVice>makes sense...
15:52<OwenS>JostVice: or trams
15:52<OwenS>Or other trains
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>works great at airports as well
15:52<OwenS>Or, as we (#openttdcoop'ers) often do, trams to trains to main station
15:53<JostVice>so the transfer thing is to transfer from something to something else, I understand it for cargo and that because it is one way, but with passengers
15:53<JostVice>for example, a bus that goes to a dock that goes to a oil rig
15:53<OwenS>JostVice: "Transfer and take cargo" means pickup and don't unload. "Transfer and leave empty" means "Leave cargo here, don't pick anything up"
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>JostVice: it's a technical problem
15:53<JostVice>haha im still learning trains, I can only do 1 way trains (signal are a mindfuck for me )
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>keep on learning :=)
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15:54<JostVice>i've been seeing the different examples on the wiki
15:54<JostVice>you guys build mad stuff
15:54<JostVice>oh well, I have to wait for the authorities to let me build a bus stop...
15:57<JostVice>the only tihng that matters to improve a city's rating is to plant trees? do the different actions in a city (like the build buildings, etc) help it?
15:58<OwenS>JostVice: yes. Bribes work well if not discovered. Good stations help also
15:59<JostVice>yes to both? :P
15:59<JostVice>i'm unsure about bribing
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16:18<Rhamphoryncus>It's far easier to ruin your reputation than to recover it. Often I build local bus service in a city just to get my reputation up, because I play to later build a rail line near it (which will destroy trees)
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16:25<JostVice>so bus should be set to transfer and leave empty? because i think my bus is taking the people he comes with, leaving none for the train...
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>that is the problem why you can't have two way transfers, busses just pick up the passengers they just dropped off
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17:08<lxnt>good evening
17:09<@SmatZ>evening lxnt
17:10<lxnt>I have a question so dumb it's not even on the wiki. Excuse me. Is there any method to push up the industry rating (% transported).
17:11<lxnt>I made a test map, and no matter what I do, oil stays on 67%, iron ore ate 84%.
17:11<lxnt>( with identical transport)
17:12<@SmatZ>still have train loading, use newest train model available, use newly built engines, build statue in town
17:12<@SmatZ>*newest => fastest
17:13<Ammler>oil weels don't rise
17:13<@SmatZ>%transported is something different :)
17:14<lxnt>I suspect statue will only raise the "local rating of transport service" (in the station info), no?
17:15<lxnt>I thought the faster you load stuff into transport, the higher the %transported, but it apparently does not work like that.
17:15<@SmatZ>station rating affects %transported
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17:20<lxnt>hm. rereading the game mechanics page for the n+1th time yields the idea that at least in case of one station per industry, %transported can not rise above station rating for the cargo type.
17:21<lxnt>thank you.
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17:27<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:27<@SmatZ>good evening, Nite_Owl
17:28<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
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17:39<Eddi|zuHause>hm... sometimes news are funny... "google streetview cars accused of wardriving" :p
17:40<Sacro>they are collecting MAC addresses
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17:48<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: the news reads like the main concern are the SSIDs, which may contain names and personal data
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17:51<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: serves people right for broadcasting that
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's not. for people who expect their WLAN not to broadcast beyond 500m... the neighbours likely already know the name, it's written on the door as well...
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19:04<Terkhen>good night
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19:21*andythenorth has never really understood the blanket objection to global variables. They produce real working code that can be understand.
19:21<andythenorth>and the occasional cluster fuck
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19:26<Eddi|zuHause>the main argument against global variables is the lack of flexibility
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>when you want to extend your program to use different contexts
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>when you are sure you'll never need that flexibility, global variables are fine
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19:37<Rhamphoryncus>That and "action at a distance"
19:38<Rhamphoryncus>If all your state is passed via arguments then it's much easier to understand what that state is
19:39<Rhamphoryncus>If you use globals then there's no limit on your state
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20:31<DanMacK>Hey all
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: i don't buy that argument... especially with objects it makes it sometimes very difficult to statically find the context
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20:39<Eddi|zuHause>if i have "NFORenum v3.4.6 r2111" how horribly outdated is that?
20:39<Rhamphoryncus>Sometimes objects link you to large amounts of state. Usually they don't
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20:50<Eddi|zuHause>but if you have a good coding style, usage of global variables can also easily be spotted
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 23 00:00:05 2010