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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-28

---Logopened Wed Apr 28 00:00:13 2010
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02:24<Terkhen>good morning
02:27<dih>morning
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02:48<planetmaker>morning
02:48<@peter1138>sadly so
02:49<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debuging <-- it will need linking in proper places, especially the TOC.
02:50<Terkhen>hmm... you are missing a g in debugging
02:50<amalloy>debugingg?
02:50<Terkhen>debugging
02:50<@peter1138>i'll fix it :p
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02:53<@peter1138>done
02:53<Terkhen>ok :)
02:54<planetmaker>thx
02:57<@peter1138>that first image is too wide
02:58<@peter1138>it is dumped below the box for the 'manual'
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03:06<dih>@seen zottd
03:06<@DorpsGek>dih: I have not seen zottd.
03:06<dih>oh
03:06<dih>@seen zodttd
03:06<@DorpsGek>dih: zodttd was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 4 days, 21 hours, 13 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <zodttd> Cool. I don't mind code being refactored at all. :D
03:06<planetmaker>peter1138: not here ;-)
03:06<dih>anybody know how that kid's coming along? and his/her project?
03:07<dih>s/project/port/
03:07*Terkhen tries to compile a minimal kernel again
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11:36<Vampier>helllo openMSX guys
11:36<Vampier>I'm trying to emulate the Panasonic a1-gt in openMSX
11:36<Vampier>but I can't get it to work
11:37<Vampier>something about roms not found
11:39<SmatZ>this is not the openMSX you are looking for
11:39*Vampier is confused
11:39<SmatZ>this is #openttd, and here OpenMSX is a open media music set
11:40<Vampier>yes
11:40<Vampier>so how do I get the thing to work
11:40<Vampier>Media Standard eXtention
11:41<Vampier>or something
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11:41<SmatZ>http://openmsx.sourceforge.net/ != http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx
11:42<Vampier>why would you call it openmsx too?
11:42<Vampier>that doesn't make any sense
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11:43<Vampier>this is confusing
11:46<@Rubidium>Vampier: the number of permutations of 7 letters is quite limited
11:47<@Rubidium>and there are many many other "collisions"
11:47<Vampier>Rubidium: I'm just pulling you guys legs
11:47<Vampier>;)
11:47<Vampier>sorry
11:47<@Rubidium>e.g. "windows"
11:48<Vampier>it's quite funny to see hits on the openMSX forums for people looking for openttd
11:48<Vampier>I'm an openMSX (emulator) team member
11:49<Vampier>I'm now following a quick tutorial on openTTD (youtube)
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11:49<SmatZ>:)
11:50<planetmaker>:-)
11:51<planetmaker>you're missing your nose, SmatZ ;-)
11:51<SmatZ>:o)
11:51<planetmaker>:-D
11:51<@Rubidium>oh noes... you made him wear his clown nose
11:51<Vampier>^_^ I had installed openTTD for quite some time on my computer, never got around playing it long enough to build something decent. This is more fun than sim city
11:51<SmatZ>:)
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12:10<Ammler>lol
12:11<Ammler>planetmaker: doesn't support openmsx?
12:11<planetmaker>hu?
12:12<Ammler>planetmaker: read a bit back (Vamp1er)
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12:14<planetmaker>yes, I read that. But... I do support OpenMSX. Or one of those :-P
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13:24<Guest1611>Is there an easy way to compile against curl?
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19735 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 6 changes by Devastator
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 3 changes by Phreeze
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 26 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:52<@Belugas>dunno, james
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13:54<@Belugas>we use it in ottd now?
13:54<Guest1611>I came up with a hack for it
13:55<Guest1611>I added -lcurl somewhere, and I managed to get a message to Twitter
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13:56<planetmaker>:-P
13:56<planetmaker>Guest1611: you can reach the same probably already by hacking one of those wrapper scripts
13:56<planetmaker>or rather not hacking but making a small plug-in for them
13:56<KenjiE20>-probably
13:56<planetmaker>(ap+ or avignon)
13:57<KenjiE20>also curl method's only good for the next couple months
13:57<planetmaker>:-) @ KenjiE20
13:57<@peter1138>?
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14:01<planetmaker>peter1138: IIRC there a changes to the twitter API announced
14:01<KenjiE20>basic auth is being dropped in favour of oAuth
14:01<KenjiE20>food!
14:04<planetmaker>did someone test the sprite picker tool with the 32bpp-anim blitter? Does it work as intended?
14:07<@peter1138>probably not
14:09<@peter1138>not like there's any proper set of 32bpp sprites to use...
14:09<planetmaker>well. It doesn't work for me as I hope.
14:09<planetmaker>But it doesn't work for me with that blitter enabled even if I don't have any 32bpp sprites
14:10<@peter1138>so don't use that blitter
14:10<planetmaker>I seem to get "random" sprites displayed. But "don't use"... doesn't sound like a satisfying solution ;-)
14:11-!-Timmaexx [~Germany@port-92-201-29-222.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
14:11<@peter1138>maybe it just doesn't work :P
14:13-!-d1gdug [~d1gdug@84.13.236.142] has joined #openttd
14:14<d1gdug>hello
14:14<Terkhen>hi d1gdug
14:14<d1gdug>hi Terkhen
14:15<planetmaker>peter1138: yeah, but that's what I'm asking: doesn't it work or does it only not work for me? :-)
14:16<d1gdug>i have a technical question on openttd, i was a ttdpatch player and recently i wanted to return to play this fantastic game, so i decided to try openttd
14:16<@peter1138>i don't know, i've never looked at it
14:17<planetmaker>d1gdug: technically you're in the right channel then ;-)
14:17<d1gdug>basically when i was playing on ttdpatch, i was heavily using "Automatic creation of presignal setups"
14:18*planetmaker wonders what qualifies as "Automatic creation of presignal setups"
14:18<d1gdug>when a train enters the block the signals are all automatically changed to presignals or PBS
14:18<planetmaker>not implemented (nor will it, I think)
14:18<d1gdug>:(
14:18-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit]
14:19<planetmaker>path signals in OpenTTD work differently from TTDP's
14:19<planetmaker>fundamentally different, so I am told
14:19<d1gdug>really ? i ahve to read the wiki and the manual a bit more
14:19<d1gdug>have*
14:19<planetmaker>place a path signal only where I want to allow a train to stop
14:20<planetmaker>no entry or exit signals required for that
14:20<d1gdug>ok
14:21<d1gdug>i'm still convinced that a button that automatically converts blocks to pre-signals could be a good idea and would speed up network constructions
14:22<planetmaker>d1gdug: you can cycle through all signals types by just ctrl+click on a signal
14:22<d1gdug>yeah
14:22<planetmaker>and honestly: I'd be anything but delighted to see your proposal implemented, if I could not get rid of it by default
14:23<d1gdug>thanks :D
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14:23<planetmaker>there's no gain to have everything path-signaled as you only place them at the entry of such block
14:24<d1gdug>sure, i understand that, that's why i was thinking about a button and not automatic conversion like ttdpatch
14:25<planetmaker>I don't quite understand how it would work though and where it is of use :-)
14:25<@peter1138>openttd path signals don't work in blocks
14:25<planetmaker>If I build something I can chose the proper signal straight away...
14:25<@peter1138>so automatic conversion wouldn't work
14:25<@peter1138>i make everything path signals :p
14:25<d1gdug>heh
14:25*planetmaker only places path signals where needed
14:26<planetmaker>otherwise I use normal signals
14:26<@peter1138>so do i!
14:26<@peter1138>normal signals were only left in for savegame compatibility...
14:26<@peter1138>sorry, old block signals
14:27<d1gdug>oh, ok, thanks guys, i think that the best thing to do is to go and play openttd a while and see how it feels different from ttdpatch :D
14:28<d1gdug>the larger map is really impressive :D
14:28<@peter1138>and smaller maps, don't forget :p
14:28<d1gdug>heh :D
14:28<d1gdug>thanks again, bye
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14:33<andythenorth>hi hi
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14:43<frosch123> /* virtual */ int GetBytesPerPixel() { return 5; } <- no wonder, it fails :/
14:44<Vampier>hahaha
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14:45<SmatZ>frosch123: FS#3802?
14:45<frosch123>it was not reopened, was it?
14:46<frosch123>but yes, i already fixed a bug yesterday in the same line :p
14:46<SmatZ>it wasn't reopened, but pm asks for reopen :)
14:46<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/fspm.diff <- planetmaker: do you feel like testing 32bpp-anim again?
14:48*planetmaker tests
14:49<SmatZ>frosch123: how do I access "spritepicker"?
14:50<frosch123>enable newgrf_developer_tools, and then under the landinfo menu
14:50<planetmaker>^
14:50<SmatZ>I guess it works only for newgrfs then :)
14:51<SmatZ>ok
14:51*SmatZ slaps SmatZ
14:51<frosch123>what do you have in mind?
14:51-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@93.21.16.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:51<SmatZ>sorry :(
14:52<planetmaker>it works for all sprites. :-)
14:53<planetmaker>frosch123: seems to work fine with 32bpp-anim with that diff :-)
14:55<planetmaker>SmatZ: I don't mind, if grf developer are called newgrf developer :-P
14:55<planetmaker>(as long as the tools work for them, too ;-) )
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14:58<@peter1138>SmatZ is a weird chap who doesn't use any
14:58<@peter1138>and uses old acceleration too!
15:00<SmatZ>hehe :)
15:01<SmatZ>I used old acceleration model in my old games, and I use those for occasional testing ;)
15:03-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
15:03<andythenorth>hmm
15:05<andythenorth>electricity just keeps getting suggested. Maybe I should just go ahead and implement it in FIRS?
15:06<@Belugas>don't rely on suggestions. Just do what your guts are telling you to do. You're the boss. You're the Master of the Plan. The rest is just "Buzz Of The Day"
15:06<@peter1138>ALL THE BEST FREAKS ARE HERE
15:07<@Belugas>YEAH!~
15:07<@Belugas>they are?
15:07<@Belugas>waht band?
15:07<andythenorth>My guy says eliminate the power station in FIRS. It's pointless
15:07<@Belugas>then do it :D
15:08*SmatZ says "nay" to industries that never disappear when not supplied
15:08<andythenorth>no power stations == no electricity problem?
15:08<Terkhen>electricity implementation seems too much work for something that will not move around :P
15:09*SmatZ plays SimCity 2000... and thinks about OpenSC2k
15:09<@peter1138>marillion
15:09<@peter1138>SmatZ, lincity? hehe
15:09<SmatZ>peter1138: it's too far from perfect :(
15:09<@peter1138>indeed
15:09<SmatZ>my girlfriend listens to marillion :)
15:10<@peter1138>opena-train!
15:10<SmatZ>:)
15:10<@peter1138>http://www.last.fm/user/peter1138 < random play tonight
15:11<SmatZ>last.fm is no longer free here :(
15:12<@peter1138>free?
15:12<@peter1138>i never play tunes from it
15:12<andythenorth>so no power station....no wind turbines either! :|
15:12<SmatZ>:)
15:12<@peter1138>only scrobble
15:13<@Belugas>wow... still SUPER
15:13*planetmaker would like the wind turbines... :S
15:14<SmatZ>:)
15:14<Terkhen>me too, they look nice :)
15:14<andythenorth>but what is their purpose? :P
15:14<andythenorth>they produce nothing
15:14<planetmaker>wasting eng. supplies
15:14<@Belugas>be different
15:14<Terkhen>eyecandy :O
15:14<planetmaker>or let them produce engergy cells
15:14<Prof_Frink>Wind turbines instead of transmitters?
15:15<andythenorth>can't someone knock up an implementation of NewObjects?
15:15<andythenorth>TTDP has one :P
15:15<andythenorth>allegedly
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15:17*Belugas started it, almost did it, but got ... rerouted somewhere else
15:17<@Belugas>donw the crazy river
15:18<@peter1138>hurr, two jean-michel jarre tracks in a row
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15:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19736 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix [FS#3802]: Spritepicker still failed for 32bpp-anim blitter.
15:19<@Belugas>SmatZ, just download the Bloody Time Zones catalog. That's all that matter!
15:20<SmatZ>:)
15:20*SmatZ tries to
15:20<@Belugas>and if last.fm asks for a fee, i know a place where it's always free
15:20<SmatZ>:)
15:21<planetmaker>outch... last.fm's German translation could be better... :-)
15:22<planetmaker>song title last made love to: ... (if litterally translated back into English)
15:23<planetmaker>*literally
15:23<SmatZ>:D
15:24<andythenorth>apart from eye candy, this is the other reason for wind farms:
15:24<andythenorth>http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=316462&nseq=2
15:24<andythenorth>http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=241092&nseq=12
15:24<andythenorth>http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=228649&nseq=13
15:24<andythenorth>pretty cool no?
15:24<andythenorth>http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=202123&nseq=18
15:25<@peter1138>"Iceweasel prevented this site from opening a pop-up window"
15:25<andythenorth>yes, they do try and make money from ads :P
15:25<planetmaker>:-)
15:26<andythenorth>maybe DanMacK can be persuaded to draw wind turbine wagons
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15:37<Terkhen>it does not sound like a cargo that would be transported frequently
15:38<andythenorth>no, it's a micro-management challenge
15:38<andythenorth>occasionally that might be fun :)
15:38<planetmaker>They just inaugurated a large off-shore windpark up North here...
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: subtype of engineering supplies?
15:38<planetmaker>I guess quite some of those things needed transporting :-)
15:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yep
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: around here, those are typically transported by truck
15:39<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: here, too.
15:39<planetmaker>But hardly to an off-shore place :-P
15:39<andythenorth>http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2010/02/western-starserious-trucks-for.html
15:39<planetmaker>And I'd assume in those quantities they used some rail, too. But I don't really know
15:40<andythenorth>http://www.hovercraftrental.co.uk/case-studies/windfarm-case-study/
15:40<planetmaker>but actually trucks shipping around wind turbine parts are not too infrequent tbh
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, they had some every few weeks for a while
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15:41<andythenorth>round about 1990 I usually get a bit bored just building routes. I think a micro-challenge might be fun
15:42<andythenorth>especially if there was a goals framework....
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>i quickly get bored by excessive micro management
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>especially if it has no effect
15:42<andythenorth>me too
15:43<andythenorth>but "Deliver 2000t of ENSP to Foobar windfarm" might be fun for a bit
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>like i said previously, these goals should replace subsidies
15:44<Terkhen>yeah, subsidies are boring
15:44<andythenorth>yup
15:44<andythenorth>I haven't used a subsidy since 1894 :P
15:44-!-heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd
15:45<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Requested_features/Gameplay_Goals_Framework
15:45<SpComb>hmm, autosep is hit by the command.cpp changes
15:47<planetmaker>hmpf... the appendix proves to be the major reading :S
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16:09<andythenorth>yay
16:10<andythenorth>zeppelins delivering ENSP in 2009. Pikka style :)
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16:13<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:15-!-a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270]
16:17<frosch123>night all
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16:18<Nite_Owl>Scenario editor -> land generation tool -> reset landscape -> is supposed to remove all user placed stuff (rails, roads, stations, etc) but it throws an assert/crash dealing with tunnels and bridges
16:19<Nite_Owl>this is when a .sav is changed to a .scn and then loaded as a scenario
16:19<Nite_Owl>is this a known problem
16:19<planetmaker>Nite_Owl: maybe. Depends upon version. Try in newest
16:19<planetmaker>something like that was recently fixed
16:20<Nite_Owl>v1.0
16:20<planetmaker>then try nightly :-)
16:20<planetmaker>or -RC2
16:20-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:20<Nite_Owl>scratch that r19725
16:21<Terkhen>IIRC that was the nightly with broken bridges
16:21<Terkhen>should be fixed in latest nightly
16:21<Nite_Owl>thank you
16:21<@peter1138>SCOTLAND'S SHAME
16:22*Rubidium slaps Nite_Owl
16:22<@Rubidium>next time give the right version on the first try
16:22<Nite_Owl>tried to answer a question about that on the forum but wanted to test it first
16:24<SpComb>am I the only one with buggy rmb scrolling under VirtualBox?
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16:29<@Belugas>ho... ho... ho... that song... the Haaaaaa Factor!!!!!
16:30<@Belugas>mmh... at home...
16:30<@Belugas>BOOOO
16:30<@peter1138>*cough* ~media
16:32<Nite_Owl>Works now - thanks again
16:33<@peter1138>woah, was that really 2008? :s
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16:44<@Belugas>tempus fugit, sir Nelson, tempus fugit...
16:44-!-einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47<@Belugas>flac?
16:47<@Belugas>mmh
16:48<@Belugas>DOWN, YOU, DOWN!
16:48<@Belugas>bad cat... mhh... exquisite :D
16:48*__ln__
16:48-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:49<__ln__>oh, a cat
16:49<@Belugas>is it bad or bat??? you wrote bat, but I swear it's bad
16:49<@Belugas>40 MEGS????
16:50<SpComb>less than a CD
16:51<@Belugas>uncompressed song
16:51<@Belugas>better than no song :)
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16:52<@peter1138>it's compressed
16:52<@peter1138>but lossless
16:52<@Belugas>and it's marvelous :)
16:53-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-246-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...]
16:53<@Belugas>now that's what can be called a Song. A Hymn. A Trademark. A Milestone!
16:58<__ln__>oooh caaanadaaaa
17:01<@Belugas>hem...
17:01<@Belugas>not quite...
17:01<@Belugas>by far...
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17:11<@peter1138>hurr, that's annoying
17:13<@peter1138>pc locked up proper like
17:18-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit]
17:18<__ln__>"es gibt ein X in der nähe" oder "es ist ein X in der nähe"?
17:18<@peter1138>where's my breakfast?
17:20-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
17:20<__ln__>it's hardly breakfast time yet
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17:22<Nite_Owl>depends on your time zone
17:23<__ln__>a decent britishman synchronizes breakfast times only with GMT
17:24<Nite_Owl>
17:24<__ln__>*synchronises
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17:40<__ln__>00:18 < __ln__> "es gibt ein X in der nähe" oder "es ist ein X in der nähe"?
17:43<fjb>Both is almost correct.
17:43<__ln__>what's the almost part?
17:44<fjb>Nähe, not nähe.
17:44<__ln__>ja, natürlich, aber es ist irc :/
17:46<__ln__>ein deutsch hat heute gesagt, daß finnen "es gibt" zu oft sagen, und daß "ist" besser wäre.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>that is my feeling as well ;)
17:49<__ln__>es gibt deine gefühl
17:49<__ln__>..... not
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>if i try to put my intuition into words, i'd say you use "gibt" when X is far away, and "ist" when X is near
17:50<__ln__>okay, that makes some sense
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>like in "Es gibt ein Museum in München", but "Da ist eine Parkbank dort drüben"
17:53<__ln__>better not think with the english 'there is' construct in mind then, 'cause it would mislead
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17:56<__ln__>another german thing learned about this week: knocking on the table
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, they do that ;)
17:57<SpComb>I don't think I've ever actually witnessed any germans doing that
17:58<SpComb>live
17:58<__ln__>i have
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>it's customary to knock on the table when lots of people are sitting around it, and you don't want to greet everyone individually
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>especially if you don't know the people very well
17:59<__ln__>and also something like in a university context after a presentation, instead of applause
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>oh, that, yeah, that as well :)
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18:03<Terkhen>good night
18:03<__ln__>yes it is
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 29 00:00:14 2010