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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-04-29

---Logopened Thu Apr 29 00:00:14 2010
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01:16<Mazur>BBC4 had a interesting documentary about the African "Freedom" railway. yesterday. Watched some during my late dinner,
01:20*Mazur saw a copper pick up, a maize farm, Chinese locs and lots of not hurried people on this string and bean operation.
01:21<Mazur>Unfortunately, I missed most of it, I'd hoped for inspirations.
01:21<Mazur>Good morning, by the way.
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04:15<@peter1138>my xterm had dead pixels...
04:19<Terkhen>good morning
04:20<SpComb>peter1138: terminal emulators are more difficult than you might think
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04:34<@peter1138>"Something caused Stopmotion to exit abnormally last time it was runned."
04:39<@peter1138>kill -9 `ps ax | grep vgrabbj | grep -v grep | cut -b 0-5`
04:39<@peter1138>wow, this programmer's clever...
04:40<@peter1138>`pidof vgrabbj` is presumably too hard...
04:41<Alberth>not to mention asking nicely to a program to stop running :)
04:42<Alberth>or using killall vgrabbj :)
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06:10<nicholas_>parlez vous francais?
06:10<nicholas_>i speak english lol
06:11*dih did an 'ln' ^^
06:13<Goulp>il y a quelques français ici, but they speak english as requested in the channel title
06:14<TrueBrain>je ne parle pas francais! Ich spreche keine Deutch! Ik spreek geen Nederlands! I don't speak English!
06:14<nicholas_>i love trains
06:14<Goulp>TrueBrain: but you may understand some of them...
06:15<TrueBrain>just some? :p
06:15<Goulp>up to you :D
06:15<Goulp>should i say many instead ?
06:16<TrueBrain>I understand all of those 4 languages, that is the joke .. sigh .. nevermind
06:16<nicholas_>je suis le fromage
06:17<Goulp>beeing cheese can be dangerous about smelling
06:17<@peter1138>mmm, cheese
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>bäh, cheese
06:22<nicholas_>does anyone speak C++ ?
06:23<Alberth>not native
06:25<Goulp>i can write some C++
06:26<__ln___>nicholas_: btw, it's spelled "français".
06:26<Goulp>fran what ?
06:26<dih>"french ice"?
06:28<TrueBrain>rather italian ice
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07:02<erani_>hmm. who posted a link to some game's website day before yesterday? it was some odd puzzle game that was ported to linux recently
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07:03<Alberth> <-- this site knows
07:05<erani>ah, terrific. thanks!
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08:42<oskari89>!seen DanMacK
08:42<oskari89>@seen DanMacK
08:42<@DorpsGek>oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
08:42<oskari89>Wrong channel, sorry.
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10:08<@Belugas>hello Mazur
10:08<Mazur>Likewise to you, Belugas.
10:11<Mazur>I wonder, since OpenGFX, -MSX and -SFX are required, unless you have the original for some of these, why the first ever try to run OpenTTD doesn't offer to download them from BaNaNaS, itself?
10:11<@Rubidium>Mazur: how to visualise the offer?
10:12<Mazur>Well, there you have a point, sir.
10:12<planetmaker>Mazur, OpenMSX and OpenSFX are not required...
10:12<Mazur>Ah, my mistake.
10:13<planetmaker>And as for OpenGFX: how to display anything without graphics... (that includes font)
10:13<Mazur>Half-remembered lines from websites all over the web, which still state you need the original this and that to play.
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: on windows, a standard dialog window like for the help could be done
10:14<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I guess it *could* be done for others, too.
10:14<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but... Windows has the installer already
10:14<planetmaker>I've seen those dialogues... even within OpenTTD code.
10:14<@Rubidium>so the use case for Windows is rather limited
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but never underestimate the dumbness of the user
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10:16<Mazur>I only half remember from my linux experience, when I first wanted to try the game, some time back.
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, you could say that this is the responsibility of the package mangager
10:17<Mazur>And then went to look on the web for resolutions, came across numerous sites staing (only) you needed the original somethings, and then downloaded a pirated copy.
10:17<Mazur>Fired it up, and discovered htey were not needed, after all.
10:18<Mazur>Glad to be rid of that other stuff.
10:19<+glx>you just found outdated sites ;)
10:19<Mazur>But I did not know that.
10:19<Mazur>I think even Wikipedia is outdated on that score.
10:20<Mazur>But don;t quote me on that.
10:20<+glx>of course, 1.0.0 is less than 1 month old
10:20<Mazur>So am I.
10:20<Mazur>As a player.
10:20<planetmaker>see how out-dated you are :-P
10:21<Mazur>Terribly, and don;t I know it.
10:21<planetmaker>blessed those who are ignorant ;-)
10:22<Mazur>Yeah, childhood was bliss on that score....
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>the problem with wikipedia is that it does not represent the truth, but the community representation of that truth
10:22<Mazur>*ponders back*
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>and you may not use first hand sources
10:23<planetmaker>the latter is the biggest problem.
10:23<planetmaker>You cannot write as lead developer "it is done that way"
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>no, you can't just write an article about yourself just because you know yourself
10:23<Mazur>Ah, I see.
10:23<planetmaker>you need a written source which confirms that you're an ego-centric ;-)
10:23<planetmaker>s/ego-centric/nice person/ :-P
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>you need a "notable source" for other person's opinion on how they percieve yourself
10:24<Mazur>Well, as a mwere player, I could updae the WIkiPedia entry.
10:24<planetmaker>if you found a source which supports your changes...
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>with your spelling, you shouldn't update wikipedia ;)
10:24<Mazur>That's not spelling, that's typing skills.
10:25<Mazur>And the difference between a throwaway line in a fugitive system and a more permanent text.
10:25<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's even worse; if some paper/magazine writes something incorrect that is admissable for the OpenTTD page. If I write something about OpenTTD it's not considered a "verifiable" source...
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, as "a mere player" you are again a primary source, not a secondary source, no mention of notability either
10:26<Mazur>I can direct to hte Wiki as a primary source.
10:26<planetmaker>It's not a primary source either...
10:26<@Rubidium>"According to a study of the activity of the 61,154 open source projects on SourceForge in the period 1999-2005 OpenTTD is 8th most active patch/contribution receiving open source project." <- I think that is really utter bullshit, yet for Wikipedia it's proving notability and it's verifiable
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, you need to get the magazine to revoke/correct the untrue artikle
10:26<planetmaker>anyone could change that ;-)
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10:27<@Rubidium>Mazur: primary sources are "worthless" for Wikipedia
10:27<planetmaker>what would be true actually? number one active community? :-)
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>largest channel on oftc ;)
10:28<planetmaker>:-) really? I never compare(d)
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>no, not entirely
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>there's some debian stuff as well
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>but i think in the beginning that was the case
10:29<@Rubidium>planetmaker: apparantly we received 874 patches in two years, which I think is quite a lot
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>but it's probably a really useless statistics ;)
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10:32<@Rubidium>changelog.txt for that period is not even that long
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>83% of all statistics are made up on the spot
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10:34<@Rubidium>and a rough estimate would be that one in 5-10 commits would have been a contributed patch
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10:35<@Rubidium>unless... language updates are considered "contributed" patches
10:38<planetmaker>hm... :-) it'd be interesting to know how they came up with that number.
10:38<planetmaker>But yeah... if "contributed" = showed up in forum it's believable.
10:40<@Rubidium>planetmaker: purely sf stuff
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11:03<Eddi|zuHause>.. i hate that Civ4 does not group savegames by name of mod used...
11:05<@Rubidium>neither does OpenTTD
11:05<@peter1138>i'm going to assume that civ4 doesn't just load the correct mods...
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>an openttd mod for civ4 ;(
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11:11<Eddi|zuHause>err... where did that second smilie come from?
11:13<planetmaker>Long decay constant
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11:14<@Rubidium>the up arrow and enter key being quite close together? Then accidentally pressing both
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause>no... more like both keypresses ending up in the wrong window
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19737 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: irish - 424 changes by tem
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: maltese - 105 changes by kelinu, peter88823
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: polish - 14 changes by xaxa
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: romanian - 28 changes by kkmic
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13:58<Nite_Owl>Hello all
14:01<Nite_Owl>Hello Alberth
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14:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19738 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_debug_gui.cpp saveload/waypoint_sl.cpp): -Fix: MSVC 64 bits compile warnings
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14:35<planetmaker>Terkhen: compilation of FISH does not work due to the missing file :-)
14:36<planetmaker>probably just a forgotten hg add sprites/pcx/some-hovercraft.pcx or so
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14:36<andythenorth>FISH now fixed
14:36<andythenorth>my bad :(
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14:38<Terkhen>it's working now, thank you for the quick fix :)
14:43<andythenorth>should never have happened ;)
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14:50<planetmaker>andythenorth: btw, I started to add newgrf development related stuff to the wiki as sub-pages on
14:50<DJNekkid>is text/stringcode 01 (x offset) in pixels or in "space" chars?
14:52<DJNekkid>DJNekkid: pixels :)
14:54<Alberth>that is something else than SETX, I hope
14:56<DJNekkid>someone called it "setx" in the 2ccset bugreport
15:04<Alberth>hmm, perhaps it still exists in NewGRF. SETX got removed from the string system in OpenTTD quite a while ago.
15:07<planetmaker>Alberth: afaik it still exists
15:07<Alberth>yeah, you just cannot enter it anymore in a string in the languages.
15:10<DJNekkid>unless we are talking about something completely different things, it do work...
15:11<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 04 00 LANG_ID \b1 \b*2000 01 21 "2100" 00
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15:12<DJNekkid>where the "01 21" shifts the text x21 pixels to the right
15:12<Alberth>DJNekkid: we do speak about the same thing, just in different context. You use it in a NewGRF, while I had a string in a language file in mind. In the latter, it got removed.
15:13<Alberth>DJNekkid: too bad not all characters have the same size.
15:13<Alberth>*of different fonts*
15:13<DJNekkid>but it shifts it pixels :)
15:14<Alberth>as long as you use it for outlining graphics, it's fine I guess :)
15:14<DJNekkid>well, i guess you also know how the 2cc set have its p-list sprites?
15:15<DJNekkid>that is what i use it for :)
15:15<Alberth>no, I don't even know what a p-list sprite is :)
15:15<DJNekkid>purchaselist :)
15:15<Nite_Owl>Got to fly - later all
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15:16<@Rubidium>yeah, you should use "setx" there (stringcode 01)
15:17<Alberth>and you make sure all graphics have the same width. That should be fine.
15:17<@Rubidium>same width isn't necessary IIRC
15:17<@Rubidium>although it might give some side effects
15:18<Alberth>using it also has side effects, different NewGRF authors have different ideas about such width.
15:19<Ammler>grfcodec -c :-)
15:20<Ammler>DJNekkid: you might need to use the sprite flag (+0x40)
15:22<planetmaker>uh, yes.
15:23<planetmaker>though I'm not sure wether I activated it there...
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17:04<@Belugas>and here we leave out for the day!
17:04<@Belugas>night all
17:04<@Rubidium>nightynight Belugas
17:05<@Belugas>u2 Sir
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17:13<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19739 /extra/website/general/utils/ [Website] -Fix: all releases would be shown as "latest"
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17:57<Terkhen>good night
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21:11<mynetdude>is there any way in the cfg or in console to override how long bridges can be?
21:12<PeterT>in console it is...
21:12<PeterT>set long_bridges on or off, I think
21:12<mynetdude>can it be unlimited lengths?
21:12<PeterT>If I recall correctly...
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>depending on your value of "unlimited", i believe the limit is bigger than the size of a standard map ;)
21:15<mynetdude>100 tiles max on long bridges my map is 1024x768
21:16<mynetdude>err 1024x1024 map
21:16<mynetdude>default is 16 tiles
21:16<mynetdude>I want to create bridges over 400 tiles long
21:17<mynetdude>no worries there are work arounds
21:18<+glx>you want to bridge over water?
21:19<mynetdude>long ways over water
21:20<mynetdude>well over land/water combo
21:20<+glx>you can still build small islands ;)
21:20<mynetdude>trying to minimize track sloping as much as possible
21:20<mynetdude>yeah true
21:20<+glx>when done correctly there are no slopes
21:21<mynetdude>well the elevation has to be the same between two points
21:21<mynetdude>in order ot not have slopes
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21:22<mynetdude>I created a "sort of" switchback in one of my maps, switchbacks have slopes which wasn't too bad
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 30 00:00:18 2010