Back to Home / #openttd / 2010 / 05 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-05-02

---Logopened Sun May 02 00:00:21 2010
00:00-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.36] has joined #openttd
00:35-!-Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-50.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:49-!-amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74689.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:15-!-roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:23-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:24-!-roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:33-!-roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:37-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:43-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:43-!-amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #openttd []
01:48-!-roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:49-!-roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:54-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:56-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6F55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
02:05-!-ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke]
02:07-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
02:26-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
02:28-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
02:43<andythenorth>morning
02:49-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:52-!-asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd
02:56-!-roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:01<planetmaker>moin andythenorth
03:01<planetmaker>and moin everybody else :-)
03:01<andythenorth>hi hi
03:12-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
03:31-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
03:33-!-luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
03:33*andythenorth battles industry production a little more
03:34-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-197-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
03:43-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
03:48-!-DDR_ [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
03:49-!-r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
03:53-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:53-!-DDR_ is now known as DDR
03:54<@peter1138>hey paul hey paul hey paul let's have a ball
03:56-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:00<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling the topic is outdated
04:01<__ln___>you'd prefer continental breakfast, huh
04:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, definitely
04:04-!-peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Continental breakfast only | Don't ask to ask, just ask
04:05<andythenorth>this is bollocks right? http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Industries#Production_multipliers_12_13_
04:05<andythenorth>or I can't do basic maths
04:05-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:06<andythenorth>cargo is produced 8 or 9 times per month
04:06<andythenorth>@calc 2*7
04:06<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 14
04:07<andythenorth>and we have two things called 'multiplier'??
04:08*andythenorth is starting to properly dislike industry production and is thinking of un-friending it on facebook
04:11<andythenorth>@calc 6*1
04:11<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 6
04:11<andythenorth>makes absolutely no sense
04:12<Alberth>you need DorpsGek for that?
04:12<@peter1138>I wasn't going to ask.
04:13<@peter1138>What doesn't make sense about it?
04:13<andythenorth>set action 0 prop 12 to 2, get 18 units production
04:14<andythenorth>allow the monthly production change cb to decrease production multiplier by 1, get 6 units production
04:15<andythenorth>I feel like I'm playing 'guess a number'. I've read the source....mumble mumble
04:18*andythenorth must be doing something wrong :P
04:18<andythenorth>hmmm.....every primary industry just closed
04:18<andythenorth>maybe I'll ship this version :D
04:21<andythenorth>how does production rate correspond to production multiplier?
04:27-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:29-!-KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
04:34<planetmaker>andythenorth: I understand industries, prop 12/13 such that with a value 0 nothing is produced with a value of one, 6 or 7 units per month and so on.
04:34<planetmaker>And then there's the production callback which might override that
04:35-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C179.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:35<Terkhen>good morning
04:37-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
04:39<planetmaker>moin Terkhen
04:45-!-nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9506752.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
04:46<nighthawk_c_m>Moin
04:49-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
04:54<andythenorth>planetmaker: that's how I understand prop 12/13 as well
04:54<planetmaker>:-)
04:54<andythenorth>which is why I'm baffled when setting prop 12 to 2 produces 18 units
04:54<andythenorth>12 or 14 I'd understand
04:55<andythenorth>I assume there's some kind of rounding up/down going on
04:55-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
04:57<Zuu>It's know that the station coverage area is a rectangle using the max/min x/y tiles as corners. However if the top/left corner is a bus stop and the lower/right corver is a dock, does will the coverage border be 3 or 5 tiles or different at the different sides?
04:57-!-r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:58<Zuu>Or shall I create a rectangle using min/max x/y per transport mode and then join these four rectangles which will not result in a rectangle then.
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>the maximum over all connected station types
04:58-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:59<Eddi|zuHause>so 5
04:59<Zuu>Good, that's fairly easy to implement.
04:59<@peter1138>What are you implementing?
05:00<@peter1138>Ideally the coverage area would be 'accurate' ;)
05:00-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:00<@Rubidium>@calc 31*74/7
05:00<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 327.714285714
05:00<Zuu>For some reason AIStation.IsAcceptingCargo(station_id, cargo_id) does not exist, so I have to implement it myself by constructing a covverage area and then use the AITile function to se if the tile area accepts the cargo.
05:01<@Rubidium>@calc 31*74/6
05:01<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 382.333333333
05:01*Rubidium wonders what runs between every 330 to 380 ticks
05:04<@Rubidium>and whether it's not just an error in the wiki
05:05<@peter1138>As if the wiki would be wrong :)
05:06<planetmaker>haha :-)
05:11-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-]
05:16-!-luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:17-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:18-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB1F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:18-!-OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
05:21<@Rubidium>and ttdp's code seems to imply that prodmultiplier is only used when the production callback is executed
05:22<@Rubidium>and that gets called every time cargo arrives and/or every 256 ticks
05:25<Eddi|zuHause><Zuu> For some reason AIStation.IsAcceptingCargo(station_id, cargo_id) does not exist, so I have to implement it myself by constructing a covverage area and then use the AITile function to se if the tile area accepts the cargo. <-- wouldn't it be easier if you exported that function instead? in case something gets changed later, you'll have increased maintenance overhead
05:27<Zuu>hmm, you mean adding that function to NoAI API?
05:27<Zuu>That would indeed move the maintanence burden away from me. :-)
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>while you're at it, also provide IsStationProviding(), and also add that information to the station window, not only the station build window
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>and mark the catchment area of an existing station ;)
05:37-!-lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd
05:42<planetmaker>:-P
05:42<planetmaker>while you're at it add everything anyone might have considered missing?
05:44-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd5e5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
05:47<Zuu>For now I'll just stick a function in my SuperLib, might do a feature request for NoAI, but that would not help as of today.
05:49-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
05:51<Terkhen>hi frosch123
05:51<frosch123>morning terkhen :)
05:52<Terkhen>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865492#p865492 <-- this is the patch that andythenorth mentioned, it is just a bunch of DEBUG and a hack to run the game until it reaches a fixed year
05:53<Zuu>You could use an AI for that along with the hidden break on debug string feature of the AIDebug window.
05:53<frosch123>oh, i remember, there was a discussion last night :o
05:54-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:55-!-lugo [~lugo@g227011005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
05:55<Zuu>Oh, and why not have Ctrl+Alt+D bring up a window where you can in-gui toggle on/off developer features.
05:55-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus]
05:56<Terkhen>an AI would be a better solution than recompiling, I have to learn NoAI some day
05:56<Terkhen>the patch is intended to be run from the console to get the log faster
06:03<andythenorth>planetmaker: if industry var A7 becomes available during industry construction....it opens up an interesting multiplayer possibility
06:03<andythenorth>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Industries#Industry_founder_information_A7_
06:04<planetmaker>hm interesting indeed :-)
06:04<planetmaker>though it doesn't mean that you know who delivered cargo ;-)
06:05<andythenorth>you could have one company nominated as an industrial conglomerate
06:05<andythenorth>only that company would be able to construct industry
06:06<andythenorth>with real player or AI control :)
06:09<andythenorth>we could write an AI called 'Global Monolith' :P
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why does it strike me odd when this disk has "133.7 MB" free?
06:10<frosch123>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Industries#Production_multipliers_12_13_ <- andythenorth: better?
06:12-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:12-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6F55.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!]
06:13-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0347.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:13<andythenorth>frosch123: definitely better. I thought it was every 256 ticks
06:14<andythenorth>which leaves me with one puzzle: how does prod multiplier 1 produce 6 units cargo?
06:15<@Rubidium>andythenorth: prop 14?
06:15<frosch123>yup, prop 14 :)
06:15<andythenorth>prop 14 is set to 1
06:15*andythenorth checks cargo weights
06:17<andythenorth>nope not that
06:18<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19751 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change [FS#3798]: make sure the chat area fits in the default window size; if you want it larger, you can always change/override it in the config file.
06:21<andythenorth>hmm....'industry AI' could also be segmented by sector so different AIs handle mining, petrochemicals, etc
06:21<andythenorth>how would they get money?
06:22<planetmaker>running a cheap air service :-P
06:23<Terkhen>CTRL+ALT+C
06:23<frosch123>andythenorth: must be http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/yourfault.png
06:24<andythenorth>can the AI press CTRL+ALT+C :P
06:24<planetmaker>Terkhen: yeah... but only on MP, if you then prepare a map in advance with everything setup detailed for those particular AIs.
06:24<planetmaker>length so to say ;-)
06:24<andythenorth>frosch123: frick
06:24<Terkhen>I know, just kidding :P
06:24<andythenorth>hmm
06:25<planetmaker>Terkhen: it's not the worst of ideas. It works quite ok with those street traffic AIs.
06:25<planetmaker>the only issue with that really is that it's inconvenient, if you run a server
06:26<andythenorth>frosch123: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/maths_troubles.png
06:26<andythenorth>so under what circumstances is 8 or 9 an integer factor of 10?
06:26*andythenorth checks cargo weights again
06:26-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd
06:27<frosch123>when you use a different prop14, or the production changes in the month, or you use a production callback,or ...
06:27*andythenorth face palms
06:28<planetmaker>0x10? :-)
06:28-!-Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
06:28<frosch123>ah, right, one can even see from the screen that you are using a production callback
06:29<andythenorth>yep
06:29-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
06:29<andythenorth>but I don't use it to set output
06:29<andythenorth>I thought that was the cause
06:29<andythenorth>but it's not :P
06:29<frosch123>prop 12/13 and production callback production should sum up
06:30<andythenorth>is there a possibility that occasionally a month could contain > 2560 ticks?
06:31<frosch123>@calc 74*31
06:31<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 2294
06:31<frosch123>@calc 74*28
06:31<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 2072
06:31<frosch123>@calc 74*31/256
06:31<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 8.9609375
06:31<frosch123>@calc 74*28/256
06:31<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 8.09375
06:32<andythenorth>hmm
06:32<frosch123>8 or 9 :)
06:32<frosch123>so to reach 10 you need to produce at least once 2 units
06:32<andythenorth>this is becoming a distraction from the real issue :)
06:33<andythenorth>all I'm really trying to do is control primary production *decrease* and prevent early closure for low-production industries
06:33<andythenorth>to do that I need to understand the difference between production rate and production multiplier :P
06:33<andythenorth>http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html#_IndustryArray
06:34<andythenorth>offsets 0E and 13
06:35<frosch123> i->production_rate[0] = min(CeilDiv(indspec->production_rate[0] * i->prod_level, PRODLEVEL_DEFAULT), 0xFF);
06:35<frosch123> i->production_rate[1] = min(CeilDiv(indspec->production_rate[1] * i->prod_level, PRODLEVEL_DEFAULT), 0xFF);
06:35<frosch123>production rate is constant, production multiplier/level changes on production changes
06:35<frosch123>you can change production rate by using a production callback instead
06:36<andythenorth>thanks
06:37<andythenorth>so my case is to allow production decrease to minimum, but prevent closure
06:37<andythenorth>so I need to check offset 13
06:38<frosch123> case 0x93: return industry->prod_level; <- yes, 93
06:38<andythenorth>ok
06:39<andythenorth>to the nfo-cave batman! :)
06:43-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.166.6] has joined #openttd
06:44<nighthawk_c_m>andythenorth: It contains more ticks if you use a daylength patch - and I believe that may be part of openttd one day
06:45<nighthawk_c_m>ECS for example has huge problems with daylength patches at the beginning untill you have a industry at its max output - stockpiling is overkill there.
06:45*andythenorth isn't going to deal with daylength patches :)
06:46<andythenorth>any such patch needs to scale industry production appropriately, I'm not doing it :P
06:46<frosch123>that is due to the weird way ecs does planned economy
06:46<nighthawk_c_m>Well, betted deal with it now - if it enters trunk you have to deal with it then I guess
06:46<andythenorth>nighthawk_c_m: no
06:47<andythenorth>I am guessing it would have 0% chance of making trunk if it destroys industry production
06:47<@Rubidium>I am guessing you can't make a daylength patch that pleases everyone
06:47<@Rubidium>i.e. it's going to end up with a load of settings
06:47<nighthawk_c_m>Well, the problem is that the production recalculations happen at the end of the month/beginning of the new month - so any industry that uses stockpiling will run into troubles
06:48<nighthawk_c_m>wandythenorth: if a newgrf is incompatible with openttd settings it is the problem of the newgrf - the standard industries run perfectly fine with the daylength patch
06:48<frosch123>the problem is not related to stockpiling, but just to ecs defining the production this month on the 1st
06:49<nighthawk_c_m>just the primary industries don't increase/decrease as rapidly due to the longer month time
06:49<andythenorth>I flat out wouldn't code for it. Industry production is complex and fragile already.
06:51<nighthawk_c_m>Nah, Pikkas 1.5 industries are incompatible too, you can kill a coal mine in one month easily - is the production recalculation hardcoded in openttd itself (when it happens?) or is it part of a newgrf? If it is hardcoded it could be changed to recalculate every X Ticks - X -Ticks being a value calculated via daylength
06:51<nighthawk_c_m>And on maps of bigger sizes a daylength patch is inevitable (my personal oppinion)
06:52<andythenorth>well it would need to provide a clean separation of concerns to industry code
06:52<andythenorth>;)
06:54<nighthawk_c_m>what do you mean with concerns?
06:55<andythenorth>I shouldn't be having to write branching nfo to deal with the daylenght
06:55<andythenorth>length /s
06:55<andythenorth>not my problem
06:57-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has joined #openttd
06:57*andythenorth has something weird going on
06:57<nighthawk_c_m>Yeah, it would need to be part of the openttd client itself - that would be the best solution - thus the clientr would need to supply the recalculation points for the industries as well as multipliers for stockpiles / resources that are limited
06:57<nighthawk_c_m>0.o
06:58-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-135-174.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
06:58<Zuu>O.o main.nut of my local CluelessPlus version is 2974 lines
06:58<Zuu>Maybe it is time to move a few more classes from it. :-p
07:02*andythenorth unbreaks some nfo
07:02<andythenorth>or not
07:04*PeterT unbreaks andythenorth
07:04*nighthawk_c_m whonders if PeterT could be recoded
07:05<PeterT>well, if you speak Peter++, go for it
07:05<nighthawk_c_m>Actually, can a already existing NFO be decoded in the new NFO language system thats developed ?
07:05<nighthawk_c_m>Maybe PearlPeter?
07:06<PeterT>PCL
07:06<PeterT>Peter#
07:07<frosch123>[13:05] <nighthawk_c_m> Actually, can a already existing NFO be decoded in the new NFO language system thats developed ? <- just pipe it through petert
07:08<nighthawk_c_m>^^
07:09<PeterT>no, error! error!!!
07:10<planetmaker>lol @ nighthawk_c_m :-)
07:11<andythenorth>I want to check a byte and stick it in storage. Use type 81 or 89?
07:12<frosch123>bytes are sign-extended to dword when stored
07:12<andythenorth>so use 81 and all will be ok?
07:13<frosch123>depends how you read it back
07:13<andythenorth>I'm just using it for debug, so it shows in the 'inspect' window
07:14<andythenorth>if offset 93 was in the inspect window anyway, that would be very handy :)
07:15<andythenorth>hmm
07:15<andythenorth>so prop 12 is defined as 2, offset 93 reads as 16
07:16<andythenorth>maybe my mask is wrong
07:16<andythenorth>hmm
07:17*andythenorth sees some light
07:17<andythenorth>so there's a min() in the production calculation?
07:19-!-Goulpy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd
07:19-!-Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:19-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has joined #openttd
07:19<andythenorth>that min() is just a cap
07:20-!-Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:21-!-Goulpy is now known as Muxy
07:21<andythenorth>frosch123: what does CeilDiv do in the production rate code?
07:21-!-Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit []
07:21<frosch123>divide and round up
07:21-!-Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd
07:22<andythenorth>so case prop 12 is 2 and production multiplier is 11, what's the resulting production rate?
07:23<frosch123>@calc ceil(2 * 11 / 16)
07:23<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 2
07:24<andythenorth>@calc ceil (2 * 8 / 16)
07:24<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 1
07:24<andythenorth>makes sense
07:26-!-Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
07:27<andythenorth> @calc ceil (2 * 7 / 16)
07:27<andythenorth>@calc ceil (2 * 7 / 16)
07:27<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 1
07:27-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
07:29<andythenorth>Rubidium: just used 'inspect' for the first time to solve a real problem :)
07:30<andythenorth>what is the best way to request additional values in the inspect window(s)
07:31<frosch123>i guess adding the 80+ variables mentioned on the wiki should be fine. adding all is no option, as some of them change meaning over time, and are generally troublesome for ottd/ttdp compatibility
07:32<frosch123>or even ottd/ottd compatibiilty between different versions
07:34<andythenorth>offsets 00, 06, 0A, 0E, 13, 14, 18, 29 and 2C would be useful. The others are redundant
07:37<frosch123>var 80 does not work at all
07:37<andythenorth>that's exciting :P
07:37<frosch123>resp. not in a compatible way. and isn't it totally useless?
07:38<frosch123>do you want a location button in the inspect window?
07:38<andythenorth>would it allow for moving industries around? :)
07:38<frosch123>:p
07:39-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0347.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:39*andythenorth crosses fingers. Are all primary industries about to go 'boom'
07:39<andythenorth>?
07:39<andythenorth>apparently not
07:40<frosch123>some of your offsets to not make any sense at all
07:40<frosch123>are you sure you got the right ones?
07:40<andythenorth>which ones? I just lifted them from the 'internals' page
07:41*andythenorth has code for primary industry production falling, but no closure
07:48-!-last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
07:53<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=874789#p874789 <-- lovely. "I want to play multiplayer, didn't understand the requirements wrt ports and thus thought I don't need to care"
07:56<nighthawk_c_m>:-)
07:57<nighthawk_c_m>The internets, a mystery in itself and its ports - A novel by us
07:57<planetmaker>:-P
07:58<nighthawk_c_m>Hmm.. the bigger a map gets the worse the landscape generation seems to be
07:59<planetmaker>that depends upon the landscape generation settings. And on the definition of "nice" and "bad" ;-)
07:59<nighthawk_c_m>Oh, and anyone care to add a closure to power plants for the standard industries? That would be like Openttd 1.5
07:59<planetmaker>nighthawk_c_m: won't happen. Use newgrfs
08:00<nighthawk_c_m>Why, then at least reduce the spawn amount upon map creation
08:00-!-mekt [~mekt@212.255.37.208] has joined #openttd
08:00-!-mekt [~mekt@212.255.37.208] has left #openttd [Leaving.]
08:00-!-murr4y [~murray@89.84-49-66.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:03-!-KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:03<planetmaker>nighthawk_c_m: personally I do agree actually as I consider that behaviour a bug in the original game
08:03<planetmaker>same with the expiry of all helicopters
08:05<nighthawk_c_m>Well, I have no problem with 340 Coal mines - but 250 Power plants that are absolutely useless is just .... not going anywhere - and I play with Industry sets at times, but also enjoy the good plain easy industry sometimes
08:09<planetmaker>yeah :-)
08:09<planetmaker>actually... both are good ideas for OpenGFX+...
08:11-!-murr4y [~murray@89.84-49-66.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
08:12<Terkhen>I'd love to see support for new cargos without having to use refitting (at least for RVs/wagons)
08:12<planetmaker>hm... support for new cargos without refit?
08:12<Terkhen>new wagons appear depending on GRF loaded, I don't know if it is feasible or not :P
08:12<planetmaker>Terkhen: that'd mean to have zillions of (possibly visually identical) wagons.
08:13<planetmaker>yes, it's possible
08:13<planetmaker>hm...
08:13<planetmaker>personally I actually prefer fewer wagons which can be refitted ;-)
08:13<planetmaker>as that allows for more fun play in my eyes:
08:14<Terkhen>it would be more friendly for newbies and AIs
08:14<planetmaker>get iron ore, deliver it, go to depot, refit to coal, go to coal mine near by, go to power plant near ore mine, refit to ore
08:14<planetmaker>--> less empty travel :-)
08:15<planetmaker>actually it'd make sense to not have the need to refit at all when transporting coal and ore.
08:15<planetmaker>it's just the same wagon after all. And a bit dust is something one doesn't care about
08:15<nighthawk_c_m>Caring about the coal dust in a iron ore freight would be too much realism
08:16<planetmaker>nighthawk_c_m: one wouldn't care, I think, in reality...
08:17<nighthawk_c_m>And we can always assume that a train is cleaned before they fill it - coal dust can cause dust explosions in storage areas and the likes - whether its a riverboat or a freight train - after coal transports they are always cleaned up before being used again
08:17<planetmaker>Terkhen: I added to OpenGFX a refit-possibility to goods, coal, oil and passenger wagons...
08:17<planetmaker>at least that's way easier (and more future - proof!) than checking for individual newgrfs
08:18<planetmaker>but I do agree refit is something one has to learn about and one has to think about...
08:18*planetmaker ponders
08:20<frosch123>you can check for specific cargo types being available via action7
08:20<Terkhen>newbies wouldn't use the advanced possibilities of refitting anyways (it is just an annoyance at that point)... but if this option would need changes for each future newgrf then I don't know if it is a good idea
08:20<frosch123>but you would still have to know all cargo types, i.e. you cannot generally support stuff via cargoclasses
08:21<planetmaker>hm... but that's what is being asked for anyway: one wagon per cargo
08:21<planetmaker>not per cargo class
08:22<frosch123>well, but you cannot create a wagon for every bulk cargo in some type of loop
08:22*planetmaker has to look at how available cargos are supported...
08:22<planetmaker>frosch123: maybe I can with NML ;-)
08:22<frosch123>you can only check for iore, core, coal, ... and then conditionally creater wagons
08:23<planetmaker>anyway a lengthy process
08:23<frosch123>however, imo, once you have more than 12 cargos one wagon per cargo quite floods the purchase list
08:23<planetmaker>my argument against, yes :-)
08:23<planetmaker>and whoever uses industry newgrfs should learn about refit? ;-)
08:24<Terkhen>I guess so
08:24<frosch123>well, there was also the patch to refit wagons to the selected cargofilter on purchase
08:24<andythenorth>planetmaker were you here the other day when we were discussing refits?
08:25<frosch123>though refit on purchase fails for subcargos
08:25<planetmaker>andythenorth: dunno. Not that I recall what you try to hint at :-)
08:25<Terkhen>well, at least "standard" refittable wagons / RVs should not use the cargo name but a more generic one
08:25<@peter1138>subcargos are pointless
08:26<andythenorth>we were trying to figure out refitting at stations, then we got into discussing vehicles that can load 'containers' containing anything
08:26<planetmaker>Terkhen: yes, it should be clear what they are: possibly multi-purpose wagons :-)
08:26<planetmaker>andythenorth: ah, I wasn't there. I skimmed over it later
08:26<andythenorth>peter1138: no they aren't. How else are we supposed to crudely hack them for livery, capacity, number of vehicles visible in an aRV?
08:27<andythenorth>:P
08:27*andythenorth thinks using subcargos as originally designed is utterly stupid though
08:27<andythenorth>and will baffle nearly all players
08:27<planetmaker>it's just eye-candy
08:27<frosch123>[14:26] <andythenorth> we were trying to figure out refitting at stations, then we got into discussing vehicles that can load 'containers' containing anything <- interestingly that approach fails for coal/iron ore, as they are not transported mixed in at the same time
08:27<andythenorth>frosch123: yup
08:28<andythenorth>'refit at station' would be ok for that
08:28<andythenorth>but I think we concluded that might never happen
08:28<planetmaker>frosch123: it'd be suficient if the refit for similar cargos was not necessary
08:28<andythenorth>planetmaker: do you actually use 'refit' orders? I always intend to but never bother as they are a hassle
08:29<planetmaker>then one cargo per container only
08:29<planetmaker>then sub-cargos would get a new meaning :-)
08:29<planetmaker>But overloading notation is usually a bad thing :-P
08:29-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6F55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
08:29<planetmaker>andythenorth: yes, sometimes I do :-)
08:29<planetmaker>But not too often. But I like the idea very much
08:29<frosch123>planetmaker: the point of container was that a box van or a ship could transport any packaged cargo. that is mixed goods/food in the same wagon at the same time
08:29<planetmaker>it makes much more sense in eye-candy games
08:30<frosch123>a ore wagon otoh might carry both coal and iron ore, but not at the same time
08:30<andythenorth>refit orders...I like it. But in practice it's too fragile. What the chances of having an iron mine and coal mine with same production?
08:30<planetmaker>frosch123: then don't say "container" but "palette.
08:30<andythenorth>It's hard to provide good service + match to vehicle capacity
08:30<andythenorth>"box"
08:30<planetmaker>So one ore wagon has "one palette" of <bulk>. While a goods transporter of 40t has maybe 8 palettes capacity at 5t each
08:30<planetmaker>or so
08:30<planetmaker>or 1t each and 4
08:30<planetmaker>*40
08:31<planetmaker>yeah s/palette/box/. Whatever is preferred
08:31<andythenorth>SKU
08:31<planetmaker>it'd need to define the packing unit
08:31<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock-keeping_unit
08:32<planetmaker>packing unit is a vehicle property. SKU doesn't quite fit it IMHO
08:33*andythenorth thinks cargo subtypes just confuse players. Can I transport Goods (Automobiles) in a wagon that supports Goods?
08:34<andythenorth>What about a wagon that supports Goods (Electronics)?
08:34<andythenorth>it's just dumb
08:34*andythenorth does dumb stuff to
08:34<andythenorth>too /s
08:35<@peter1138>/s!
08:35<andythenorth>:P
08:41<planetmaker>@base 16 10 28
08:41<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 40
08:42<Mazur>Kids today, no ability to do simple arithmetic in their heads.
08:42<Mazur>:-P
08:43-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:fdb2:369a:e291:3e16] has joined #openttd
08:43-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:44*andythenorth wonders....if no ENSP are delivered to a primary industry, how aggressively to decrease production (it's a random chance of decrease by 1)
08:45<andythenorth>give the player a break, or make them work?
08:47<frosch123>then you should consider to make the machine shop produce "some" supplies even when no input is delivered
08:47<andythenorth>for the beginning of the game?
08:47<frosch123>or starting a game might be harder. also all unserviced primary industries will close down
08:48<andythenorth>I'm going to make closure *way* less likely :)
08:48<andythenorth>that's why you were teaching me the production code earlier ;)
08:48<frosch123>ok :)
08:48<andythenorth>there'll be some kind of escalator. Min production == small chance of closure. Low production == small chance of decrease. High production == med chance of decrease
08:49<andythenorth>and for that, var 93 is my friend
08:49<frosch123>anyway, there should be no deadline for the player to get up a complete production chain (mine -> steel mill -> machines shop -> mine) in the first five years or so
08:50*frosch123 << food
08:50<andythenorth>food is not part of that chain :P
08:50<andythenorth>food is useless anyway
08:50<andythenorth>unless you want to stare at sand for the whole game
08:52-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
08:55<andythenorth>anyone remind how random works in nfo? I remember I have to use quite specific values
08:55<andythenorth>I want about 1 in 50 approx
08:56<andythenorth>peter1138: ^ you like that kind of question :P
09:00<__ln___>http://www.chilloutzone.to/video/ego-shooter-real-pirate-haunt.html
09:06<nighthawk_c_m>interesting video
09:07-!-snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
09:09-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
09:09-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
09:10<__ln___>yeah, and on-topic.
09:11-!-luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
09:12-!-last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:18*andythenorth ponders
09:19-!-Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:19-!-Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd
09:19*andythenorth decides against it
09:19<andythenorth>:P
09:24<fjb_>To ponder or not to ponder...
09:30-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:32-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0347.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
09:47-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0347.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:48<nighthawk_c_m>would me more interesting about what he pondered and what recieved the "no"
09:52<__ln___>*received
09:58*nighthawk_c_m nodds and thanks __ln__ (not a native english speaker)
09:59<__ln___>(me neither)
10:09-!-r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
10:15-!-jpx_ [jpx_@e83-245-138-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
10:17-!-robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:18-!-jpx_ [jpx_@e83-245-138-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
10:21-!-r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:27-!-luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: luddek]
10:29-!-glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5de9:ac0e:db76:f96b] has joined #openttd
10:29-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx_] by ChanServ
10:30-!-glx is now known as Guest57
10:30-!-glx_ is now known as glx
10:31-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:31-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:31-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd
10:31-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
10:34-!-Guest57 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:fdb2:369a:e291:3e16] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds]
10:52-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
10:53-!-Peping [~Peping110@fw3.khfree.net] has joined #openttd
10:54<Peping>hello again :)
10:54<Alberth>you were here before?
10:54<Alberth>welcome again then!
10:54<Peping>yeah a few times :)
10:55<planetmaker>moin
10:55<Peping>How do I get a const char* (or whatever char) out of a StringID? :|
10:55-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>why would you want that?
10:56<Alberth>I used that a few times for debugging :p
10:56<Peping>for chat purposes on my server.. I'm trying to tell the player what cargo he's transporting.
10:59<Alberth>char *GetString(char *buffr, StringID string, const char *last);
11:00<Peping>what's supposed to be put in const char *last?
11:01<Alberth>char buffer[DRAW_STRING_BUFFER]; GetString(buffer, str, lastof(buffer));
11:01<Peping>oh :) Thanks a lot :)
11:01<Alberth>simple grep on the source code :)
11:02-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
11:16-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5de9:ac0e:db76:f96b] has quit [Quit: bye]
11:33<Zuu>Hmm, would be nice if vehicles that are stuck in a queue actually had speed == 0.
11:36<Zuu>Waiting and see if they have hoved is quite expansive for AIs as they only can see the tile location - not if they have moved a half tile or so.
11:36<Zuu>AIVehicle.GetDirection would be nice as well :-)
11:37<planetmaker>I'm sure you document all these proposals in the AI API thread? :-)
11:38<Zuu>Indeed, I'll do. Except for the one earlier today as I found a feature request for that at FS.
11:38-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
11:42<Alberth>you may still want to document that one in the thread, with a mentioning of the FS
11:47<Zuu>Alberth: Sure
12:07-!-KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
12:08-!-nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9506752.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
12:38-!-llugo [~lugo@f050155229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
12:40-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
12:43-!-lugo [~lugo@g227011005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:48<Progman>Assertion failed at line 102 of /home/progman/openttd/trunk/src/os/unix/unix.cpp: path[strlen(path) - 1] == PATHSEPCHAR
12:48<Progman>wohooo \o/
12:55-!-RM87 [~RM87@82.131.115.144.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
12:56<RM87>hi, how to remove already downloaded online content? For example AI.
12:59<Progman>remove the file from the content_download/ directory
13:00-!-einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
13:02<RM87>thankyou very much
13:03<planetmaker>Progman: I guess you miss out on the information in which version you encounter that ;-)
13:06<Peping>may I have a lame question? If I have a comany with no loan, no vehicles, no stuff at all, how is it possible that i have some expenses under the "Other" row in the Finances window?
13:06<Peping>can that be stopped?
13:09<Peping>the expenses are approx. 25 pounds a month, but it's still annoying when all that you want is an idle company :|
13:14<Progman>planetmaker: I'm recompiling to trunk for that atm ;)
13:14<planetmaker>Peping: it can't be stopped.
13:15<planetmaker>Simply for the reason that an idle company is supposed to bancrupt somewhen
13:15<fjb_>Peping: administration fee.
13:17-!-Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:18-!-Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:22-!-Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit []
13:27<frosch123>you can likely lower it to 1£ per month via newgrf base cost multiplier 0
13:29-!-einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:29-!-einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
13:30<planetmaker>oh really? Then I should rise it to like 50k ;-)
13:30<planetmaker>hm.. newgrfs don't have access to the company value, do they?
13:30<frosch123>unlikely
13:31<frosch123>:p
13:31<planetmaker>:-)
13:31-!-KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
13:35-!-KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit []
13:37-!-BWJM [~BWJM@node-14661.pppoe.execulink.com] has joined #openttd
13:40<BWJM>With bridges, you can make combined road/tram bridges by upgrading a road bridge with a tram bridge. Is there a way to build combined road/tram TUNNELS?
13:42-!-lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit []
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the same way
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>you only need to add tram lines to one bridge/tunnel head
13:45<Zuu>O.o a 150 tiles long buss queue
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19752 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: galician - 41 changes by Condex
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: indonesian - 7 changes by adjayanto
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: irish - 29 changes by tem
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 47 changes by mantaray
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 49 changes by mantaray
13:46<Zuu>With CluelessPlus and NoCAB vehicles though unfortunately the head of the queue is my fault.
13:46-!-RM87 [~RM87@82.131.115.144.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
13:47<Zuu>and those 150 tiles are just counting the longest branch.
13:47-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0347.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:48<Zuu>There is probably some 50 more tiles of queue branching off at various points.
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>we need a better method for overtaking and load balancing, especially on one way roads
13:52-!-IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd
13:52-!-ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd
13:55<Zuu>I need to fix the bug in my usage code so that if only one part of the station gets used it shouldn't report a low usage and make the AI pump in even more vehicles.
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>it's a difficult decision to add more vehicles or optimise the route insted
13:56<Zuu>Currently it only has one usage number of the entire station. When only one of 3-4 bus/truck stops gets used then it will look like the station handles the load well when it infact is in a rather bad state.
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>+a
13:57<Zuu>The usage is basically [number of veh on station tiles] * [some factor] / [num tiles]
13:58<Zuu>where [some factor] is just a constant.
13:58-!-fjb_ [~frank@p5485B747.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:58<Zuu>Then comes the real challenge, detecting and acting on jams between stations.
14:00<Progman>planetmaker: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3807 *snikker*
14:01-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:01<@Rubidium>Progman: but that version has not been vetted by Gentoo yet :) Only 0.7.3 is "stable"
14:02<Progman>I believe it will crash on non-gentoo unix systems as well
14:04<Progman>I encounterd this assertion while playing with symlinks in ~/.openttd/, not a really serious bug at all ;)
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>Progman: it gets really serious when, after cutting, the string ends with a /
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>then it may cause an infinite loop
14:05<@Rubidium>on the other hand... looks like Progman didn't care about updating his system for a *long* time
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>this problem came up a while ago, wasn't it fixed?
14:06<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it was reported on the German forum...
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure, i thought it came up here...
14:07<Progman>Rubidium: I'm still running on kde3 which isn't in portage anymore ;)
14:07<@Rubidium>looks like a system last updated around July 2008
14:08<@Rubidium>although that would mean Gentoo was already *very* slow with updating lzo, because that's from April 2008
14:09<@Rubidium>on the other hand, you didn't get the broken zlib and sdl yet
14:10<Progman>it doesn't crash for you if you add such two links in content_download/data/?
14:12-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0347.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:18-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.110] has joined #openttd
14:24-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd
14:26-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:31<andythenorth>so how about a new type of order: 'containerise' / 'uncontainerise'?
14:31<andythenorth>or as planetmaker would have it: pack / unpack
14:32<planetmaker>I would call it box / unbox ;-)
14:32<planetmaker>or palettize / unpalettize :-P
14:33<planetmaker>(just to throw in some more terms)
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>curry/uncurry :)
14:33<andythenorth>it works for this case: train of goods to port, containerise, move by ship, uncontainerise
14:33<andythenorth>but it still fails for transfer orders
14:33<andythenorth>I just spent a long car journey trying to figure it out
14:33<andythenorth>the problem is that transfer orders are just broken
14:34<andythenorth>and if we layer on some kind of 'intermodal' system to allow part-loading vehicles, it just highlights transfers being broken
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: rather have containers work like vehicles, and have them their own order. then you can refit a container to the cargo you like, load it at the dock, and then have the ship load the container
14:35-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.79] has joined #openttd
14:35<andythenorth>which would be interesting as it would also make vehicle ferries and ro-ro trains possible. But is that one likely?
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>not particularly ;)
14:35<andythenorth>how does the game route a container :P
14:36<andythenorth>the previous discussions looked more possible
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>the container has the route in the orders, and the ship loads containers with the right order?
14:36<andythenorth>sounds like a large extension of current game to me?
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:36<andythenorth>frosch123 and Alberth were discussing something that seemed more plausible of packing cargo inside a package...
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>but in my mind, that's just a side effect of shunting ;)
14:37<andythenorth>transfer orders are unfixable without something like cargodist, right?
14:37<@Rubidium>oh... and then they want coal and passengers in containers too
14:37<Zuu>transfer orders with cargodist do not really make sense, but transfering cargo does. :-)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: just refit the container to "illegal immigrants"?
14:38-!-Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-166-149.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd
14:40-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:41<planetmaker>hm... nice idea
14:41<planetmaker>contraband ;-)
14:42<planetmaker>just to make sure the illegal immigrants are not found, they're "stored" behind boxes of weed :-P
14:43<Alberth>New disaster: "Head of <COMPANY> arrested for smuggling immgirants, fined for $<HUGE AMOUNT>."
14:43<andythenorth>wmd
14:43<planetmaker>:-D
14:44<planetmaker>Alberth: too realist. This is a game! ;-)
14:44<andythenorth>ummmm
14:44<Alberth>planetmaker: not good for profit, those boxes will disappear while in transit :p
14:44<andythenorth>transfer orders *aren't* fixable are they?
14:44<andythenorth>just to check....
14:44<planetmaker>hehe
14:44<Alberth>what does fixable mean?
14:45<andythenorth>PAX is the best example....can't have a bus both drop off and collect at the same airport as it recollects it's own passengers
14:46<andythenorth>its / it's
14:46<planetmaker>that needs cargo destinations of some sort
14:46<Alberth>yes, that happens
14:47<andythenorth>same issue renders any work on 'containers' pointless at the moment IMO
14:47<Alberth>our ideas don't work?
14:47-!-Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe23dc00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
14:48<andythenorth>I sometimes do a 'two station shuffle' with ships & buses, but it's boring. and it sucks for planes
14:48<Alberth>oh, you mean you cannot move back and forth between two harbours
14:50<Alberth>I was more worried about a single trip, but that seems still ok to me
14:52<andythenorth>hmmm\
14:53<andythenorth>well if it's unsolvable maybe two stations are ok
14:53<andythenorth>it's particularly poor for planes though
14:54-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:54<andythenorth>have a bus go to 'drop off' and 'pickup' stations is ok. Ships it's ok, but slow. Trains can be difficult if stations need to be large. Planes is quite bad :|
14:54<Alberth>everything is solvable, but adding cargo d*st isn't exactly trivial :)
14:55<andythenorth>I don't know if cargodist solves it anyway?
14:55<planetmaker>it does andythenorth
14:55<Alberth>yes it does afaik
14:55<Zuu>why wouldn't it?
14:55<planetmaker>it gives cargos a destination and they don't go elsewhere
14:55-!-Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe23dc00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:55<andythenorth>I haven't played a cargodist game yet....I only play the game to test FIRS...and for that I have to use trunk :)
14:55<andythenorth>no time for more games than that :(
14:56<Ammler>but something like terminals, arriving and departing slots per station
14:56<Zuu>I've only played cargodist at the test server. Though I think I spent like 30 hours on that server. :-p
14:56<Alberth>I mainly played cargodest :)
14:56<andythenorth>do coop games use 'drop off' 'pickup' for transfer routes?
14:57-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ptr_]
14:58<Ammler>andythenorth: as you already said, it is ugly for airports
14:58<andythenorth>i.e. two different transfer stations
15:00<andythenorth>so I take food to A, and 'pack' it. Now a 'container' ship loads and goes to B. But B doesn't need food. C needs food. Meanwhile all my food is piling up at B
15:01<andythenorth>the 'routes' suggestion from Eddi|zuHause actually covers that case. So does cargodist.
15:02<andythenorth>ho hum
15:02<Ammler>one big issue of cargodist is, that the destinations are reachable stations
15:02<planetmaker>andythenorth: we sometimes do something like that
15:02<planetmaker>we have then no load orders at drop
15:03<Zuu>Ammler: At first glance I though that as well, but the system where you get the station rating caped depending on the amount of destinaitions you provide it is not really that bad.
15:05<Ammler>well, for me it is just "autotransfer" not more :-)
15:06<Ammler>very complicated autotransfer
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it does not force destinations
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>it helps you gather large coverage areas
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>and helps you detect bottlenecks
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>that's one of the biggest challenges of cargodist, you actually have to transport all the passengers, you can't just let them pile up
15:07<Zuu>At the test server I tried to bypass cargodist and only provide one destinanitos. But later I learned that that was not a good idea as my primary industries closed down one by one becasue of low station ratings.
15:08<planetmaker>he, I recall that :-)
15:10<Ammler>cargodist could be nice together with IS
15:10*andythenorth wonders how cargodist interacts with the FIRS industry closure controls I'm writing :o
15:10<Ammler>does that depend on raiting?
15:11<andythenorth>I'm bypassing all the default closure code
15:11<andythenorth>it's a bit bonkers and seems to require a lot of wiki to explain it
15:11<Ammler>in general, the ratings are much lower, around 50%
15:11<andythenorth>mine is simpler
15:11<Zuu>IIRC Fonso will be trying to replace that rating cap with something else to encourage providing more destinations.
15:13-!-KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
15:13<Zuu>The downside with the current solution is that it makes it quite hard for new companies to compete about resources.
15:15<Zuu>The statue already gives old rich companies a benefit against newer not yet rich companies.
15:15-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>bah... having religious leaders declare your research as heretic and having caste system doesn't go well in a small empire
15:19<andythenorth>planetmaker so FIRS closure/open parameter options (1) default FIRS behaviour (some closing) (2) no closing (3) no closing, no opening (total sandbox)
15:19<andythenorth>the only question I have is whether to have a separate option to disable primary production decrease. And I think not
15:20<planetmaker>why would you warrant against primary production decrease separately?
15:20<andythenorth>oh....one other. Total sandbox....what forms of opening are prevented: map generator, random gameplay, player funding?
15:20<planetmaker>well... actually : for scenarios :-)
15:21<andythenorth>not even sure I can control those yet, but what would be best? :P
15:21-!-Peping [~Peping110@fw3.khfree.net] has left #openttd []
15:21<planetmaker>andythenorth: what about a bit set thingy:
15:21<planetmaker>no closing, no opening, no prod. change of primary
15:22<planetmaker>if none is set, default FIRS rules
15:22<andythenorth>is it too many for players?
15:22<planetmaker>and if no open = nothing opens, neither game nor player
15:22<planetmaker>but that *could* be separated, but I wouldn't do it now
15:23<planetmaker>and I don't think it's too complicated
15:23<andythenorth>haven't tested yet whether I can prevent in game but allow in scenario editor
15:23<planetmaker>andythenorth: yes, you can. You can check for the game mode
15:23<andythenorth>k
15:23<OwenS>Ooooh... Raskspace's new VPSes are awesomely attractive
15:25<OwenS>Their lowest end plan is $10.95 a month... And if something goes wrong (With their end, not yours ;-)) you can still call them up at 4am to get them to fix it :p
15:26<OwenS>(And they charge hourly, so spinning up a VPS for 1 hour to do a nightly build is fine :P)
15:27-!-Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-166-149.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []
15:27-!-RM87 [~RM87@82.131.115.144.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
15:28*andythenorth wonders if there is room in the map array to store 'There is electricity here' on a tile
15:29<RM87>is it possible to have train last year's profit a negative value that is more than train running cost?
15:29<Alberth>with transfer orders, easily
15:29<Alberth>read about feeder systems at the wiki :)
15:33-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
15:35<RM87>ok, got it thx
15:35-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus]
15:36-!-RM87 [~RM87@82.131.115.144.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
15:41-!-BWJM [~BWJM@node-14661.pppoe.execulink.com] has quit [Quit: BWJM was killed by Baal]
15:48-!-Maarten [~dutchusa@cpe-67-49-76-8.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:01-!-Pe1erT [~Peter@c-76-19-212-58.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:02-!-Pe1erT [~Peter@c-76-19-212-58.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
16:07<andythenorth>time for some wires and solder :P
16:07<andythenorth>sometimes nfo is just not enough
16:09<OwenS>Hehe
16:09<OwenS>andythenorth: What you building?
16:10<andythenorth>adding lights to this http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=8275-1
16:10<OwenS>Aah
16:10<OwenS>Nothing like the smell of lead solder ^^
16:15-!-Powerek38 [~chatzilla@static-62-233-206-85.devs.futuro.pl] has joined #openttd
16:15<Powerek38>hi everyone!
16:16<Powerek38>what are the key factors that make the game run more and more slowly as it progresses?
16:16<Zuu>cpu usage
16:16<Zuu>ships?
16:17<Zuu>or more generic, more complex networks for the pathfinder to handle.
16:17<Powerek38>and obviously the size of the map and the number of vehicles in the game?
16:17<Zuu>Also just moving around the vehicles takes quite alot cpu time.
16:19<Powerek38>and additional graphics and vehicles sets?
16:21<@Rubidium>if they do (m)any fancy things that might cost time too
16:22<OwenS>Example: Japanese Houses is a real CPU sucker
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>vehicle movement, amount of cargo waiting, tile animation, ...
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>where vehicle movement can be separated in pathfinder, acceleration and collision detection
16:24-!-einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24*andythenorth makes a temporary lathe from an electric drill
16:24<andythenorth>and reduces the diameter of some LEDS
16:25<andythenorth>real stuff mind, this isn't pixels :P
16:25<planetmaker>the diameter of LEDs? Hm...
16:25<planetmaker>like 2...10mm?
16:26<andythenorth>they are 3mm with a lip
16:26<andythenorth>I'm removing the lip
16:26<Powerek38>ok, thanks for this :)
16:26-!-Powerek38 [~chatzilla@static-62-233-206-85.devs.futuro.pl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]
16:26<andythenorth>if anyone knows of a source of bright-white 3mm LEDs with no lip, let me know
16:26-!-snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )]
16:26<andythenorth>and now...back to the game :P
16:27-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:34<planetmaker>andythenorth: LED != LED ;-)
16:34<planetmaker>depends what type you need
16:55-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd
17:05<planetmaker>hm... picasa is also nice for viewing my large OpenTTD screenshot collection which I obviously aquired meanwhile...
17:05<planetmaker>240 screenshots
17:05<planetmaker>didn't know I had so many :-P
17:06-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:07<frosch123>night
17:07-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd5e5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:08-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
17:09-!-Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-166-149.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd
17:16-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:17<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:17-!-TheMask96 [~martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-197-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...]
17:19-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:19-!-Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-166-149.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:21-!-Devroush|2 [~dennis@ip-83-134-166-149.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd
17:23-!-TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
17:26-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
17:27-!-asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit []
17:28-!-Tennel [~Tennel@wh2-212.st.Uni-Magdeburg.DE] has joined #openttd
17:33-!-KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference]
17:35<Terkhen>good night
17:49-!-glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9451:7456:16c1:2491] has joined #openttd
17:49-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx_] by ChanServ
17:49-!-glx_ is now known as glx
18:03-!-Tennel [~Tennel@wh2-212.st.Uni-Magdeburg.DE] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
18:08-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C179.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:19-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:23-!-SpComb^_ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd
18:25-!-Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:25-!-SpComb^ [~terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:25-!-__ln___ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:26-!-Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd
18:27-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB1F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der bläht, als hinterster geht!]
18:31-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
18:34-!-__ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd
18:34-!-JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:35-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8047.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49-!-zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:55-!-kingop [~kingop@IGLD-84-228-189-158.inter.net.il] has joined #openttd
18:55-!-kingop [~kingop@IGLD-84-228-189-158.inter.net.il] has quit []
18:55-!-kingop [~kingop@IGLD-84-228-189-158.inter.net.il] has joined #openttd
18:56<kingop>hi, i have a problem geting the server list
18:56-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57<PeterT>kingop: do you get any error messages?
18:57<kingop>no
18:57<PeterT>kingop: have you set it to "Internet" first?
18:57<PeterT>rather than "LAN"
18:57<kingop>yes, some times i get the server list
18:58-!-IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]]
18:58<kingop>but most of the time i can see only the last server i jioned
18:58<Zuu>hmm, CluelessPlus cargo edition make use of all 500 vehicles in 20 years on hard setting. Perhaps it need to be tought how to make use of other transport modes when cargo support gets stable enough to be released.
18:59<kingop>i opened ports 3978-3980
19:00<Zuu>3979 is the port for incomming connections, but if I understood you correctly you are trying to join servers, not host your own.
19:00<kingop>yes
19:01<Zuu>I didn't get anything from content server within 10-20 seconds earlier tonight.
19:01<Zuu>IIRC the master server and the content server use the same physical host.
19:02<Zuu>(the master server is the one you connect to when you want to know what multi player servers there are to play at)
19:03<kingop>i'm trying now and still I see only the last server I was able to connect to
19:03<Zuu>It's really slow from here too (to get the server list), currently OpenTTD is frozen.
19:03-!-luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
19:04<Zuu>You can use http://www.openttd.org/en/servers and manually input the address of the server you want to join as a fall back.
19:04<kingop>Most of the time it this way?
19:04<Zuu>I don't know, but 1.0 surely increased the number of users.
19:05<kingop>i downloaded 1.0.1 today
19:06<Zuu>What you can do if you want to play multi player now is to go to the URL I gave you before (http://www.openttd.org/en/servers) and find a server you want to join. Click on the link and you'll see the IP+port of the server.
19:06<kingop>Does this affect the ability to connect to the servers?
19:07<Zuu>In OpenTTD you can press add server and type the address manually.
19:07<Zuu>It's of course not as convinient as when the master server works, but should get you started.
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>kingop: server list uses UDP, which means packages may get lost, especially on busy lines
19:08<Zuu>I have no idea how temporary the downness of the master server is. Hopefully it will get back again in a few days.
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>joining a server uses TCP, so generally is more reliable
19:08<Zuu>And as Eddi pointed out it may or may not be the actual master server that is down. Probably not as the http interface works.
19:08<Zuu>http uses TCP.
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>the ingame server list can't use TCP, because that increases bandwidth usage by around factor 10, and has a lot of memory requirements
19:10-!-Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd
19:10<Zuu>Noticed now that I've got the list in OpenTTD from the master server.
19:11<Zuu>Indeed, and for each user it could be okay, but for the server it adds up alot.
19:11<kingop>me too! after a long time
19:12<kingop>now the map downloading is stuck..... It's annoying
19:13<Zuu>hmm, as usual there is alot more empty servers than servers with people on it.
19:13<kingop>i can see the chat but it's stuck,
19:13<Zuu>So that all cool people can have their own super cool server.
19:13<kingop>network - game connection lost
19:14<kingop>Is this normal?
19:14<Zuu>try another server, preferable maximum 512x512.
19:14<Zuu>(map size)
19:14<kingop>i will
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>that's likely a problem with your connection, or your computer is too slow for the game
19:15-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd
19:15<Zuu>512x1024 will probably also work, but bigger than that usually do not work very well for multiplayer.
19:15<@Rubidium>openttd does not like unreliable (internet) connections
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>kingop: do you have WLAN?
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>those tend to have a high frequency of lost packages
19:17-!-luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: luddek]
19:17<kingop>I have a stable and fast connection
19:18<Zuu>low jitter?
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>apparently it's not as reliable as you think
19:18<kingop>i use lan
19:19<kingop>i played other online games
19:20<Zuu>You can try another server, but if all OpenTTD servers cause you problem then it is probably something at your end which could include your ISP.
19:20-!-Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
19:20<Zuu>OpenTTD is rather different from many other online games.
19:20<kingop>i'm trying now an empty server
19:21<kingop>i'm in. i can play
19:21<kingop>alone.....
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the game you joined was just too large
19:22<kingop>and again a connection lost
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>openttd kicks you out if you can't keep up for 4 ingame days (around 10 seconds)
19:23<kingop>i don't know what more can i do, some time i'm able to play 2 hours but more of the time i can't even see the server list
19:24<Zuu>You could try some of the AIs if you want.
19:24-!-llugo [~lugo@f050155229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>typical trouble areas are your computer/firewall, your network/router or your ISP
19:25<Zuu>If you get the in game content download list.
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>content list is TCP, i believe
19:26<kingop>some times it's working. s there any way for me to know what is the problem?
19:26<@Rubidium>if it works sometimes and doesn't work a little later it's unlikely to be router/firewall, but more general unstable connection
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>note that all these things are outgoing connections
19:26<Zuu>Yep, probably after they added the http mode for content download list (if it was not TCP from start)
19:27<@Rubidium>content was tcp from the start
19:27-!-APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd
19:28<@Rubidium>the masterserver + initial server communication is udp because it's much lighter and I've been told some old Windows version did not recycle file descriptors fast enough so you'd run out of file descriptors for your tcp connections pretty fast
19:28<kingop>i got a new msg: you are banned from this server.
19:28<kingop>how, why? i never palyed there
19:28<kingop>played
19:28<Zuu>Is it a goal server?
19:29<kingop>i don't think soo
19:29<Zuu>Did it show something about rules when you joined?
19:29<Zuu>(in the chat)
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>they might have banned an IP range, which would cover all people from the same ISP
19:29<kingop>i couldn't join, it kick me out
19:29-!-APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:29-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
19:30<kingop>ok, i will not take it personally
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>or you used "Player" as your name
19:30<OwenS>Rubidium: Said "old Windows version" is any version XP SP1 or earlier
19:30<kingop>no, i have a name
19:31<kingop>i use XP sp3
19:31<OwenS>Rubidium: Used to really kill the Tor
19:32<Zuu>kingop: As for the record I could join a server but lost the connection as well an a rather empty server which used to work a half year ago or so. (I don't do multiplayer very often)
19:33-!-fjb [~frank@p5485B747.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:34<@Rubidium>OwenS: oh, that's more recent than I thought
19:34<Zuu>My suggestion would be to try single player with AIs and then maybe try #openttdcoop. No idea if that will be of any luck as it is a rather heavy server but I have never had any problems with them apart from when my PC can't keep up with it anymore.
19:35<OwenS>Rubidium: Yeah. Dunno how they took Berkely Sockets and screwed it up, but this is Microsoft we are talking of
19:35-!-kyo313 [~kyo@93-97-250-157.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:35<Zuu>Throw togeather CluelessPlus, SimpleAI, NoCAB and AdminarAI and you have a good bunch of AIs.
19:35*OwenS would like to kill people who name the section of their PDF "Section 17". You know, rather than "17. Audio Interface"
19:35-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-135-174.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:36<kingop>I managed to connect to #openttdcoop
19:37<Zuu>Just remember to read their rules before you start playing there.
19:37<kingop>wher can i read the rules?
19:38<OwenS>kingop: http://www.openttdcoop.org
19:38<OwenS>Though which server?
19:38<OwenS>Aah, .stable? I don't think the rules there are complex :)
19:39<PeterT>there are rules, though
19:39<Zuu>I wonder, how did you manage to connect to the #openttdcoop server without a password? Also I wondered how you managed to do that without a nightly edition of OpenTTD, but I see now there is a stable #openttdcoop server.
19:39<OwenS>Zuu: hes on #openttdcoop.stable. I checked
19:39<PeterT>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart/Stable
19:39<kingop>are there any more known stables servers?
19:40<PeterT>kingop: yes, I host one at #sn
19:40<kingop>they have 3 servers on the list, one without password
19:41<PeterT>yeap :-)
19:41<PeterT>That's the welcome stable
19:41<PeterT>then there is the PublicServer, and the prozone
19:41<Zuu>The usual procedure is to join their irc channel, type a special command in the IRC channel and get the password for the server. This so you are forced to read about the rules.
19:42<OwenS>:(. This chip has two I²S transmitters and two I²S recievers. That means I can do, at best, 4.0 audio output :(
19:43<Zuu>That procedure also usualy keeps the bastards out of the game.
19:43<OwenS>Not always. But it helps.
19:45<kingop>where can i read about all of this? i have a lot to learn
19:46-!-Zuu_ [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
19:46<PeterT>kingop: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart
19:46<PeterT>and join #openttdcoop and #openttdcoop.stable
19:47<kingop>I've read there, I didn't find much information on Multiplayer
19:48<PeterT>http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer
19:50-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz]
19:51<kingop>Thanks everyone for your patience, i'm going to sleep now. i will try again tomorrow
19:51-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:52-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:54-!-kingop [~kingop@IGLD-84-228-189-158.inter.net.il] has quit []
19:58-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
20:03-!-Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:05-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6F55.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!]
20:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19753 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp:
20:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3740]: try a bit harder to find a suitable font that can be loaded,
20:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: i.e. while searching for a suitable font test whether you can open it and if not
20:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: search further instead of always returning the first suitable font even when it
20:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: can't be loaded
20:08-!-Zuu_ [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09<FauxFaux_>(And our co-op game went a little downhill http://faux.uwcs.co.uk/openttd-sowrong2.png)
20:09-!-Eoin [~no@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: kthxbai]
20:18<OwenS>wtf with all the oil rigs?!
20:19<PeterT>FauxFaux_: does the game lag like a bitch now?
20:20<FauxFaux_>The oil rigs happened by themselves; prospecting wasn't even on. And no, everyone's playing on modern (read: intel q series or above) hardware. :p
20:37-!-Devroush|2 [~dennis@ip-83-134-166-149.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37-!-OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:07-!-JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9451:7456:16c1:2491] has quit [Quit: bye]
21:12-!-fjb is now known as Guest96
21:12-!-fjb [~frank@p5485D3E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
21:19-!-Guest96 [~frank@p5485B747.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:55-!-Eoin [~no@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
22:11-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:24-!-exe- [~d@83.68.75.158.debica75.tnp.pl] has joined #openttd
22:25<exe->http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/File:2010-05-03,_04_18_24.png <- half coverleaf bridge rail junction in 3d minecraft world
22:35-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:59-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
---Logclosed Mon May 03 00:00:23 2010