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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-05-03

---Logopened Mon May 03 00:00:23 2010
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01:26<dih>exe- may i say that whatever that world is... it looks ugly? :-P
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01:57<Terkhen>good morning
02:34<dih>is there a way i can use ccache on a project that does not support --enable-ccache?
02:35<@Rubidium>CC="ccache $(CC)" CXX="ccache $(CXX)"
02:35<dih>sweet Rubidium, thank you
02:35<@Rubidium>unless they hardcode stuff
02:37<dih>so i set that line before i run make or before i ./configure?
02:37<dih>i'd guess before ./configure ^^
02:38<dih>configure: error: C++ compiler cannot create executables
02:40<dih>got it :-)
02:41<dih>need to set CC="ccache gcc $(CC)" ^^
02:41<dih>as $CC is empty before ./configure
02:41<@Rubidium>well, then leave the $(CC) out
02:41<@Rubidium>after all, it does absolutely nothing
02:42<@Rubidium>and if it's filled gcc gcc will definitely fail too
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03:06<dihedral>that worked wonderfully Rubidium, thanks
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03:46<andythenorth>Terkhen how about realistic acceleration for ships?
03:46<andythenorth>I thought it was pointless, but now I'm thinking it might be good
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---Logclosed Mon May 03 03:53:27 2010
---Logopened Mon May 03 03:55:10 2010
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03:57<planetmaker>andythenorth: you will know: are ships, properties 14 and 15 (ocean_speed_fraction and canal_speed_fraction) implemented in OpenTTD?
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03:58<Terkhen>adding weight and engine power for a minor effect that can be simulated via callbacks sounds a bit overkill to me :P
03:58<andythenorth>ah well yes
04:01<dihedral>morning pm
04:01<planetmaker>at least I'm now confident that my implementation of feature 02 in NML works, andythenorth :-)
04:01<planetmaker>hi dihedral
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04:54*planetmaker really likes the NML idea :-)
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04:55<dihedral>pm: NML?
04:55<planetmaker>nfo meta language :-)
04:55<planetmaker>or on a project where it's applied:
04:56<planetmaker>So much easier to read :-)
04:57<planetmaker> <-- and translations are easy, too :-)
04:58<planetmaker>It's not done yet, but it supports already quite a lot.
04:59<planetmaker>And most important: it supports varaction2 and action6 which is considered the most complicated parts to abstract
04:59<Noldo>do you have examples of those?
05:01<Terkhen>something like that would be nice for FIRS translations too, less code duplication :)
05:02<andythenorth>Ammler: did you give Terkhen commit rights yet :P
05:02<planetmaker>Noldo, I don't quite have those, but I take Yexo's word on it
05:03<planetmaker>I don't think so. Is he developer in one of the projects?
05:03<planetmaker>Not that I'd mind at all :-)
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05:04<planetmaker>I don't have his ssh key, so simple answer: Terkhen so far has no commit rights at the devzone
05:04<planetmaker>it'd just be a matter of giving us the public part of such key, though
05:05<Terkhen>andythenorth: besides the spanish translation and maybe other string related stuff I will not be doing much :P
05:05<andythenorth>that's ok
05:05<andythenorth>it just makes translation easier for you
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05:06<Terkhen>I was thinking on something to easy up translations, but the way it's done in opengfx+ is better than my idea
05:06<planetmaker>Terkhen, look possibly at the 2cctrainset how it's handled there.
05:06<planetmaker>It's easier there than with FIRS, if I remember correctly
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05:08<Terkhen>okay, I'll check that
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05:08<planetmaker>hm... not much
05:09<planetmaker>But actually it's not really code duplication. NFO needs an action4 for that
05:09<Terkhen>I was thinking on having a common pnfo file with all the nfo code that would get included into the different language.pnfo files (each one with its own text defines)
05:10<planetmaker>Though it can be saved actions, if more than one string is put into one action4.
05:10<planetmaker>Terkhen, yeah, that's a nice thing to have, yes
05:10<Terkhen>that way you'll code the action 4 only once, but it is really being defined for each language
05:10<planetmaker>yeah :-)
05:11<planetmaker>it can be done and I once had it (nearly), I think. But it broke somewhat...
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05:28<Zuu>Nice work on that NML. :-)
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05:32<planetmaker>Thank Yexo and Hirundo. I'm only a minor contributor
05:38*andythenorth finds some things easier than others
05:43<TrueBrain>that will be my new life slogon ...
05:51<Terkhen>andythenorth: I have pushed the incorrect strings fix
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05:51<Terkhen> <-- also, bauxite seems to be missing a TABBR
05:52<Ammler>he, another half empty wisdom :-)
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06:10<Timmehh>anyone know how i can disable news messages popping up? they pop up like crazy and its annoying me lol
06:11<@Rubidium>in the main toolbar, click (and keep pressed) the newspaper button. Then select the message settings
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06:24<__ln__>the default settings for the news popups are crazy, but it's pointless to complain about that.
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06:43*andythenorth decides all ships in FISH should run a little slower when loaded and a little faster when empty
06:43*andythenorth can probably do it with maths or something :P
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06:45<Ammler>with nml :-)
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06:47<andythenorth>has someone written a migration tool to translate existing nfo->nml?
06:48*andythenorth has a stupid question about nml and should probably read the source
06:48<Terkhen>a lot of patience? :P
06:49<andythenorth>nml is python?
06:51<andythenorth>actually nvm the language, can I compute values in it at the compiler stage? I guess it's what I have in mind is a bit like macros.
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>so you're probably fine with pnfo
06:57<andythenorth>I'm not very good with comp sci conventions, I don't know the terms for what I intend
06:58<andythenorth>for values that can be hard coded into nfo (nml), I might want to use code to compute those values depending on the props of the vehicle, (or other values)
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07:16<planetmaker>* andythenorth decides all ships in FISH should run a little slower when loaded and a little faster when empty <-- that's hardly understandable by the average player :-)
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see the problem...
07:17<planetmaker>hm, not there
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>TTDP does that with freight wagons
07:18<planetmaker>"why does my ship go slower than its max speed?"
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>"because it is full"
07:18<planetmaker>wagons have a speed limit in their own
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but in TTDP, this speed limit gets raised when the wagon is empty
07:19<planetmaker>ok, also not understandable :-)
07:19<Ammler>on ttdp, you can rise max speed with adding multiple engines
07:19<Ammler>also quite logical :-P
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's a different feature :p
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09:15<planetmaker>hello Belugas :-)
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09:16<@Belugas>hello sir :)
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09:26<dihedral>a belugas ^^
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09:28<@Belugas>a working his ass off belugas, yeah ;)
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11:36<snack2>Is it somehow possible to add cars into a group of trains?
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13:11<andythenorth>planetmaker: you think ships travelling slower when loaded is confusing to the player?
13:11<planetmaker>andythenorth: well... yes kinda
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13:13<andythenorth>trains do it
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13:16<andythenorth>hmmm, what's a TABBR for anyway :P
13:17<Terkhen>the two letter abbreviation (BX for example)
13:17<+glx>no that's a car ;)
13:18<fjb>Users get confused by everything.
13:18<planetmaker>andythenorth: sufficiently powered engines go the same speed loaded as unloaded
13:18<planetmaker>If the train goes slower I do something wrong
13:18<planetmaker>it accelerates slower - that's fine
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13:23<andythenorth>Terkhen: BX fixed
13:23<andythenorth>planetmaker: I know you're right, but I can't let this speed thing go :) I was all set to remove the hovercraft code this morning, but it's just wrong :P
13:24<planetmaker>Honestly I think doing that is a "I do it just because I can" without adding to gameplay
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13:25<andythenorth>that's why I think you're right. There's no gameplay benefit.
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13:25<andythenorth>except when there is
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13:26<andythenorth>I already did this for the log rafts, and it makes sense there
13:26<ALL|bHa>Hi there, i have a problem with building airplanes /q if you have a minute of your time, to help me.
13:26<planetmaker>yes, but hardly for the other "normal" ships, I think
13:26<planetmaker>ALL|bHa: we can only answer questions which are asked
13:27<planetmaker>I agree, though, that it makes perfect sense for rafts
13:27<ALL|bHa>OK, I'm not able to build airplanes. Why is that?
13:27<planetmaker>too early?
13:28<planetmaker>max_airplanes = 0?
13:28<planetmaker>wrong newgrf?
13:28<ALL|bHa>The other comps can build airplanes, but I cant :P
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13:29<ALL|bHa>Any idea? :P
13:29<planetmaker>you have already too many?
13:29<ALL|bHa>I have 0 ^^
13:29<ALL|bHa>Cant build them from start
13:29<ALL|bHa>But the computer players can
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13:30<planetmaker>you tried to build them on a proper airport, not a heli hangar?
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13:31<bHa>The "build" or "buy" button is bluried away, and when i try to doubleclick on a plane, a errormsg comes up with" Can't build airplanes"
13:32<planetmaker>then the amount of available planes was changed later maybe?
13:33<bHa>its set to 500 tho
13:33<bHa>ill take a check
13:33<bHa>thanks for the help
13:35<planetmaker>np. You could upload also the savegame somewhere
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13:35<bHa>Doesnt seem to work now either.
13:36<bHa>When is the earliest date to buy airplanes?
13:36<bHa>My games are always starting at 1951.
13:36<planetmaker>that's about the earliest time planes become available
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13:37<planetmaker>default planes that is
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13:37*andythenorth sighs. designing sets is harder than coding sets :|
13:37<bHa>got 3 planes avail
13:38<planetmaker>got enough money?
13:39<welshdragon>andythenorth: i have to agree
13:39<planetmaker>very much so, yes, andythenorth :-)
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13:40<Ammler>I would guess, bHa didn't try to build in a Hangar
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13:43<planetmaker>where do you see the available planes otherwise?
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19754 /trunk/src/lang/ (luxembourgish.txt russian.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 3 changes by Phreeze
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: russian - 24 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: swedish - 3 changes by Zuu
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13:48<fjb>Hm, in the vehicles list. But there is no buy button.
13:48<fjb>Quak frosch123
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13:49<frosch123>moin fjb :)
13:50<planetmaker>moin frosch123
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13:50<planetmaker>aren't you living in the wrong part of Germany in order to use "moin"? ;-)
13:50*planetmaker wonders
13:51<frosch123>here is hamburger fishmarket - already for 3 weeks - and I hate fish!
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13:53<planetmaker>never go to Japan then
13:54<planetmaker>I had fish there everyday. At least for breakfast
13:55<frosch123>yeah, i also discovered that there is fish and vodka before every meal in moskow, though i thought it would be enough far away from the sea :s
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14:41<nighthawkcm>and hi fjb
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14:42<Terkhen>hi Ccesar_BRX
14:42<Ccesar_BRX>does somebody knows how to create a server???
14:42<planetmaker>nope. Not here
14:43<planetmaker>we only talk gibberish here
14:43<planetmaker>"create a server" is a broad topic, you know
14:44<Ccesar_BRX>ohh ok
14:44<planetmaker>and there's not much we can help unless you have a concrete problem
14:44<planetmaker>we don't even know what you tried where and how and what you expected and what you got instead
14:44<Ccesar_BRX>i have(i think)
14:44<Ccesar_BRX>i create the server but my frind cant see
14:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:45<planetmaker>open firewall(s) and router ports
14:45<Ccesar_BRX>ok i will try it
14:46<planetmaker>how exactly to do that... depends upon your system configuration (for firewalls) and the router
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15:39<planetmaker>lalala :-)
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15:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r19755 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Blocked roadvehicles should first check whether they are still blocked before accelerating again, instead of continuous starting/stopping.
16:08<Zuu>This sounds like a nice present.
16:08<Zuu>Eg, zero speed when vehicles stand still.
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16:34<yorick>hmm what is the _newgrf_version number in 1.0.1?
16:35<Ammler>get svn rev from finger tags.txt
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16:37<planetmaker>haha :-)
16:37<planetmaker>yorick: checkout the svn tag
16:37<yorick>thanks :)
16:37<yorick>hmm looks like I'm going to have to implement a finger client
16:37<planetmaker>the other hg etc don't have the release
16:38<@Rubidium>why would you need the svn revision of a tag?
16:38<@Rubidium>just check out the latest rev
16:38<yorick>Rubidium: because newer revisions require me to know the newgrf version to join :P
16:39<planetmaker>bad wording. I meant he should checkout the tag
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16:39<yorick>hmm I'm still on ignore am I not?
16:39<planetmaker>and not mess with another version and call it afterwards 1.0.1 ;-)
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16:43<yorick>hmm...isn't the revision supposed to be 0 for releases?
16:43<yorick>"0-18 revision number; 0 for releases and when the revision is unknown"
16:44<Ammler>yorick: the wiki should explain quite well
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: for comparison purposes, that value is probably a don't care
16:46<yorick>Eddi|zuHause: I need the exact value ;)
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: can't you just check out the version and grep it?
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>or diff the release?
16:48<yorick>Eddi|zuHause: I already have the version ;)
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16:48<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: the version and the newgrf version are both in rev.cpp
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>why does svn not accep -cHEAD?
16:52<@Rubidium>because there's not HEAD+1?
16:52<yorick>Ammler: thanks :)
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but it's "-r PAR-1:PAR"
16:53<@Rubidium>oh, then because it can't resolve HEAD-1?
16:53<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: use hg :-)
16:53<Ammler>hg diff -ctip works
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it just says "non-numeric parameter"
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17:06<@Belugas>ok, time to head to home sweet home
17:06<@Belugas>night all
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17:20<PeterT>how does GPL apply autopilot, when there is no "binary"?
17:20<PeterT>*apply to
17:23<Zuu>GPL do not require there to be a binary.
17:24<planetmaker>good night
17:24<SmatZ>good night, planetmaker
17:24<PeterT>good night planetmaker
17:24<PeterT>Zuu: ok
17:28<Terkhen>good night
17:29<PeterT>night Terkhen
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17:34<SmatZ>good night, Terkhen
17:34<nighthawkcm>Anyone here familiar with the 32bpp graphics?
17:45<SmatZ>I can help you with 32bpp blitter...
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17:50<nighthawkcm>My problem is that I cannot get the 32 bpp to work in a patched game client - I am using ChillCores patchpack
17:51<nighthawkcm>and for some reason I can't activate the 32 bpp set
17:51<nighthawkcm>if I use the Fullzoom client it works just fine ...
17:52<nighthawkcm>And I don't find the difference - blitter is set - the tar files are present in the download content directory as well as in the game data directory
17:52<+glx>extra zoom uses different naming scheme
17:53<+glx>incompatible with clean openttd
17:53<nighthawkcm>so I can'tr use the graphics pack thats provided there, rather have to download the single 32 bbp sets?
17:53<SmatZ>OTTD has only one sprite for all zoom levels, they are resized internally
17:54<nighthawkcm>that doesn't really help me ...
17:57<nighthawkcm>The weird thing is that it actually shows the new GUI - but nothing else works
17:57<SmatZ>it's possible it's correct
17:58<SmatZ>the last 32bpp set I tried was very incomplete
17:59<nighthawkcm>well, if I use this set on the fullzoom client I at least get landscape + industry + roads and rails in 32bpp - on my patched client I only get the gui
17:59<nighthawkcm>which pack should I download?
17:59<+glx>using dos or windows grfs ?
18:00<nighthawkcm>I am on windows
18:00<nighthawkcm>using opengfx
18:00<@peter1138>that's because the patched client doesn't contain 'fullzoom' (when did 'extra zoom levels' get renamed 'fullzoom'?)
18:00<nighthawkcm>but I could also use the windows gfx
18:00<nighthawkcm>ok, and how do I run 32bpp without the fullzoom as I don't want that
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18:01<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:02<SmatZ>good evening, Nite_Owl
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18:02<@peter1138>nighthawkcm, normal openttd with 32bpp is always not 'extra zoom levels'
18:02<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
18:02<@peter1138>nighthawkcm, however, the 'extra zoom levels' stuff is a complete fuck up, and as you have discovered, the graphics sets are not compatible
18:02<nighthawkcm>I know that - but which files do I need as supposedly the files for the zoom patch don't work without it
18:03<nighthawkcm>so where do I get 32bbp stuff that works without it and how do I place it in my game directory to make it work
18:03<nighthawkcm>I am kind of lost by now ...
18:04<@peter1138>there pretty much *isn't* any 32bpp stuff that works with openttd 32bpp...
18:05<nighthawkcm>yeah, and even that doesnb't work - weird stuff
18:05<nighthawkcm>no proper documentation either to be found
18:05<@peter1138>if something doesn't exist, how do you document it?
18:06-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:06<+glx>some working tar used to exist IIRC
18:06<+glx>but very incomplete
18:07<nighthawkcm>yeah - so I place those where all Bannanas Tars go too?
18:07<SmatZ>in data/
18:08<nighthawkcm>data in the gqame directory or under my documents?
18:08*SmatZ puts everything under content_download
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18:09<SmatZ>so it's found no matter where I execute OTTD from, or whether I have openttd.cfg in current directory
18:09<SmatZ>or so :)
18:11<nighthawkcm>Well, I now downloaded 3 tars - but it doesn't seem to find them in the content-download/data
18:11-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
18:12<nighthawkcm>I surrender on that for now ...
18:12<nighthawkcm>night guys - I need some sleep
18:12<SmatZ>night nighthawkcm
18:12<nighthawkcm>another day another try I suppose
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18:15<Zuu>hmm, lots of annoying users that can't seem to read on the forums lately..
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18:17<PeterT>I haven't read the forums lately anyway
18:17<SmatZ>8-) Firefox eating 379% CPU
18:17<Zuu>379% that's a lot :-p
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18:18<@peter1138>i've had it suddenly decide to use 1GB ram recently
18:18<@peter1138>several times, like
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18:19<Zuu>At least you get happy when there are newbies at servers who show faith and learn from your hints.
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18:19<Nite_Owl>with the 1.0 release lots of new users on the forum
18:19<SmatZ>maybe Firefox is no longer supposed to be "lightweight"
18:20<SmatZ>(I think it used to be)
18:20<Zuu>Somewhere around 0.8 or so that would be.
18:20<Nite_Owl>they will either learn and stick around or fall by the wayside once they get bored
18:21<@peter1138>SmatZ, yeah, strange isn't it
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>what's a 0.8?
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18:23<Zuu>FF 0.8
18:23<Zuu>The version when they introduced the search bar was the best one or maybe the one after that.
18:23*SmatZ agrees with peter1138
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you can get it lightweight when you disable flash and javascript ;)
18:24*peter1138 ponders starting a lightweight openttd ;p
18:24<SmatZ>hehe :)
18:24<@peter1138>some menus in firefox take several seconds to show first time
18:24<@peter1138>things with icons
18:25<SmatZ>entering anything in the adress bar causes my HDD to seek a lot
18:26<SmatZ>because it is searching in some database of visited URLs
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>firefox is just my "konqueror doesn't render ebay and google maps correctly" browser
18:26<@peter1138>SmatZ, yup
18:27<Nite_Owl>set it up to clear your history when it closes
18:28<SmatZ>it would be enough to search my bookmarks as it used to
18:28<SmatZ>I don't want to reset my history
18:29<SmatZ>maybe there is a setting for that, but I gave up modifying the defaults
18:29<Nite_Owl>I have FF set to clear everything whenever it closes and it is not a big deal
18:29<SmatZ>because it means modifying it at several computers, and on some computers at school, profile is reset to default everytime I relogin...
18:29<Nite_Owl>most of the sites I visit with any frequency are bookmarked
18:30<Nite_Owl>Ahhh - well if it is not your home computer then you have no real control over it
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18:43<Zuu>SmatZ: At university (windows) I use a shortcut that gives an argument to FF to use a profile file in my home directory. This way saved changes to the profile will be stored among my files.
18:44<Zuu>This way it is also possible to use ad-block etc. at university which would else be impossible.
18:46<SmatZ>Zuu: I am using somewhere, it's useful too :)
18:46<SmatZ>your idea is good
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18:48<Zuu>I used to download their zip file and have it in my documents before it became commonly available at public computers.
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18:53<Nite_Owl>I need to feed - later all
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19:22<berndj>so my trains sometimes get stuck trying to go the wrong way down a one-way block signal (or is it seeing the signal beyond that, a one-way PBS?), saying "waiting for free path". grrr
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>berndj: trains turn around when they wait too long
19:24<berndj>i set pf.wait_for_pbs_path to 255 (forever), i think in order to catch other cases of trying to go the wrong way
19:26<SmatZ>berndj: it can happen when you are rebuilding your network, so trains can't find a way for a while
19:26<SmatZ>so they end in that reversed position
19:26<berndj>Eddi|zuHause, i think i saw someone say that wait-forever would cause trains never to consider going the wrong way - does that make sense? in fact see michi_cc's comment:
19:27<berndj>SmatZ, it happens while i'm rebuilding the network on the opposite side of the map! :)
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>berndj: you must set all 3 wait times to 255, if you have mixed signals in your network
19:28<berndj>all 3? what are the other 2 then please?
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>wait_oneway and wait_twoway or something
19:31<berndj>wait_oneway_signal, thanks for the hint
19:36<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r19756 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: move UpdateViewport() from Vehicle to SpecializedVehicle in order to improve performance
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20:41<Pulec>any ideas how to make bigger font in maps legend? or other text like that
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20:56<Eddi|zuHause>Pulec|BAC: yes. in the config file, search for small_font
20:56<Pulec|BAC>ah thx
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21:00<Pulec|BAC>i see, i have to choose font file first?
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---Logclosed Tue May 04 00:00:00 2010