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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-05-14

---Logopened Fri May 14 00:00:37 2010
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04:24<Terkhen>good morning
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05:09<__ln__>hot morning
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05:16<iconiK>What is the URL of the Mercurial repository?
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05:17<iconiK>HG says doesn't appear to be a repository (indeed the server's response is an HTML page).
05:18<yorick>I mean
05:18<iconiK>Lovely, thanks yorick!
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05:33<ccfreak2k>That makes another project I know of that uses mercurial.
05:37<Alberth>hg is only a mirror, it is not the master repo.
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06:39<TrueBrain>we even have git, and who still uses git!
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>KDE is switching to git...
06:40<planetmaker>what do they use now?
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06:41<__ln__>svn, i think
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06:41<fonsinchen>good morning
06:42<__ln__>their cvs→svn conversion had quite epic proportions some years ago
06:42<Alberth>TrueBrain: same people that use perl?
06:42<TrueBrain>Perl is not a language
06:42<PeterT>morning fonsinchen
06:43<Alberth>I never said that :)
06:43<fonsinchen>TrueBrain, does the compile farm still have the problem of labeling 3rd party versions, e.g. cargodist, as "modified"?
06:44<TrueBrain>it never had that problem
06:44<TrueBrain>(mostly as 'problem' indicates something unwanted)
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: yes, it is unwanted that a manual compile from git repository gets called "unmodified" but a compile farm build from that exact same repository gets called "modified"
06:46<fonsinchen>I don't understand. If it compiles my cargodist repository it generates a version "<git-id>-cargodistM"
06:46<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: that is not the CF which does that :) The modified bit is added by
06:46<fonsinchen>A version "<git-id>-cargodist" would be enough to make it clear that this is not trunk
06:46<TrueBrain>the compile-farm has no capabilities anymore to apply a patch of any kind
06:46<TrueBrain>and all compiles I did were named correctly, like headtohead branch and such
06:47<TrueBrain>(which are mercurial repos, but the idea holds)
06:47<fonsinchen>If I compile locally I don't get the "M".
06:47<TrueBrain>any M addition is because of find-version failing, not in my control :)
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: if that is what happened, why does it not happen on local checkouts, but only on the CF?
06:48<TrueBrain>I wonder why it only happens on CFs I didn't start :p
06:48<TrueBrain>the CF does for git: git checkout <url> && ./configure && make
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: maybe it's git-related
06:49<TrueBrain>so you tell me how the CF can cause a M addition :p
06:49<TrueBrain>(git clone, what ever :p)
06:49<TrueBrain>the only problem of CF is that it can only checkout the master branch
06:50<@peter1138>lots of projects use git
06:51<fonsinchen>Maybe I patch findversion to never generate an "M" in a special branch, make that the master branch for the compile farm and when it's done I delete the branch.
06:52<fonsinchen>TrueBrain, could you build another version of cargodist on the compile farm later today?
06:52<TrueBrain>most likely
06:53<TrueBrain>and it really is in fault, as I don't see any reason why it would think the thing is modified
06:53<TrueBrain>if you make a branch-less clone, and compile it, does that not add a M?
06:54<fonsinchen>ah, I should try that.
06:54<TrueBrain>as that is what the CF does (as I told you many times before I believe :p)
06:54<fonsinchen>Can you give me the exact command line the CF uses to do that?
06:54<TrueBrain>git clone
06:54<TrueBrain>I assume
06:54<TrueBrain>pff, takes forever btw ..
06:54<TrueBrain>you should pack from time to time
06:55<fonsinchen>I'm moving to a new server in a few days
06:55<fonsinchen>Thins will be faster there
06:55<TrueBrain>I still want to roll out 3rd party project website for :(
06:56<TrueBrain>like <name>
06:56<TrueBrain>or something :
06:56<TrueBrain>then again, I want more CPU cores too ..
06:58<TrueBrain>nope, there really is no reason for the CF to add a M
06:58<TrueBrain>and according to the info, the last compile made on the CF, didn't had the M
06:58<TrueBrain>schedule 0000018, last compile: g5b3732ce
06:58<fonsinchen>We tried, people couldn't connect because of it.
06:59<TrueBrain>btw, the name is: <git-id>-cd
06:59<TrueBrain>not <git-id>-cargodist
06:59<fonsinchen>I know
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's a recent change in the repository, right?
07:00<fonsinchen>I changed the branch name because the version string was longer than 15 characters which caused problems
07:00<fonsinchen>lots of "waring: string too long for destination buffer"
07:02<TrueBrain>weird, gives g5b3732ce-cd back to the CF, but the binary says g5b3732cd-cargodistM
07:02<TrueBrain>that doesn't add up :p
07:03<planetmaker>oh hello, a TrueBrain here :-)
07:04<TrueBrain>I was going to get some lunch ...
07:04<fonsinchen>I have changed the branch name
07:05<fonsinchen>before findversion would tell us g5b3732cd-cargodist
07:09<TrueBrain>so, I wonder why ingame it still added cargodist :p
07:10<fonsinchen>I can reproduce it now.
07:13<fonsinchen>why are we using "git diff-index" instead of simply "git diff --numstat" in
07:14<fonsinchen>for some reason "git diff-index" generates a lot of output on branchless clones.
07:15<planetmaker>fonsinchen, make a patch for that, if one way works in all cases, and the other not
07:15<fonsinchen>maybe there is a case where it doesn't work. But I'll make a patch.
07:15<planetmaker>@svn commit 16462
07:15<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Invalid arguments for svn.
07:15<planetmaker>@openttd commit 16462
07:15<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by rubidium :: r16462 trunk/ (2009-05-29 21:24:51 UTC)
07:15<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: -Change [FS#2930]: use a safer way to detect the hash of a mercurial repository (planetmaker)
07:16<planetmaker>well, you should test the patch for corner cases :-)
07:18<fonsinchen>I guess "git status --porcelain" is the safest bet.
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>random suggestion: if servicing is disabled, reliability should influence running costs
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>so basically: divide running costs by the reliability, so a vehicle with 75% reliability will have 33% higher running costs
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>... or make this independent from the servicing setting
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07:36<Eddi|zuHause> <-- was this ever reviewed?
07:50<fonsinchen> There you go:
07:50<fonsinchen>and I have also pushed it into my git repository.
07:50<fonsinchen>TrueBrain, can you build it now?
07:50<TrueBrain>I love it when I am not to blame :p
07:51<TrueBrain>executing 0000018
07:51<TrueBrain>will take a while :p
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that like the second step in the guide of software problem management? "find someone else to blame" :)
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>(the first step is "deny the existence of a problem")
07:58<TrueBrain>error: unknown option `porcelain'
07:58<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: expect failures
07:59<fonsinchen>oh, old git version I guess
07:59<fonsinchen>does it know "--short" instead of "--porcelain"?
07:59<TrueBrain>so your patch is wrong in either case
07:59<TrueBrain>no clue
07:59<fonsinchen>you can stop the build I guess
08:00<TrueBrain>that is something that is not possible :)
08:01<Rubidium>well, you could remove unscheduled jobs from the queue, but that's tricky
08:01<fonsinchen>ok, then we have a very strange version on this one.
08:02<fonsinchen>It doesn't matter much. I'll post a guide in the forum thread on how to reproduce the same version string, once I see it.
08:02<Rubidium>my git says it doesn't know porcelain either
08:03<fonsinchen>does it know "--short"?
08:03<planetmaker>so much for proper testing of the patch... :S
08:03<fonsinchen>porcelain is the same as short, but it is guaranteed to give the same output in later versions.
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08:04<Rubidium>but then, that's only 1.7.0(.4?)
08:04<Rubidium>git --short
08:04<Rubidium>Unknown option: --short
08:04<fonsinchen>git status --short
08:04<fonsinchen>and "git status --porcelain"
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08:05<Rubidium>that works
08:05<Rubidium>but then, I've got a quite new version
08:06<fonsinchen>The build will work anyway. It marks everything as unmodified like this.
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08:29<fonsinchen>hrm, "git status" used to be quite dumb until fairly recently
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08:57<fonsinchen>gah, what happened? I cannot reproduce the behaviour of diff-index anymore ...
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09:05<fonsinchen>I must have changed something on the server with my last commit ...
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09:07<nighthawk_c_m>Where is the difference between symmetric and asymmetric in the cargodist?
09:09<fonsinchen>symmetric means the same amount of cargo is sent in both directions between two stations
09:09<fonsinchen>asymmetric doesn't do that.
09:10<nighthawk_c_m>Ah ok
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>rule of thumb: symmetric for passengers, mail, valuables; asymmetric for everything else
09:19<fonsinchen>the build looks good.
09:20<SpComb>the ottdc cargodist builds?
09:37<nighthawk_c_m>WHat falls under the Express cargo class?
09:38<fonsinchen>usually goods, but certain industry grfs might redefine it.
09:38<fonsinchen>In the source code there is a statement that it can be used for passengers
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>mainly food, it looks like...
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>and goods
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09:51<Eddi|zuHause>you're late ;)
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09:52<Yexo><fonsinchen> In the source code there is a statement that it can be used for passengers <- ECS tourists are in both the passengers class and the express class
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09:52<Weeknie>Hi all
09:54<fonsinchen>This is why its distribution method can be configured separately.
09:55<Weeknie>I wonder, how does it actually work behind the screens in openTTD development?
09:56<Alberth>what screens?
09:56<planetmaker>I'd bet similar as in front of the screen.
09:56<Weeknie>Lol, I'll just ignore that:P
09:56<Alberth>more chaotic :p
09:56<planetmaker>though you don't see what's on the screen when behind it.
09:57<Weeknie>No but I mean, how does anyone know what to do?:P
09:57<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, i know... as every friday. We have a meeting at 9:00h
09:57<Weeknie>I'm thinking about helping out a little
09:57<Weeknie>Want to learn C++ and also help with openTTD so:P
09:57<Alberth>everybody does what he likes to do
09:57<Alberth>there is no plan whatsoever
09:58<@Belugas>WHEN he likes to do it...
09:58<Yexo>Weeknie: have you programmed before?
09:58<planetmaker>Belugas, Weeknie in a volunteer project there's no leverage to force anyone to do anything, especially not NOW
09:59<planetmaker>oh, hello Belugas :-)
09:59<Alberth>If you run out of ideas, look at the bugs in FlySpray, read requested features in FlySpray, read the suggestions forum :)
09:59<Weeknie>Planetmaker, I know about that;)
09:59<Weeknie>Yexo, yes I have, not in C++, but I have a lot of experience in PHP and quite some in Python
10:00<Weeknie>I learned python through doing an open source project (called pyfa), but that was on a much smaller scale
10:00<Yexo>you might want to read up a bit on pointers then
10:00<Alberth>Weeknie: find a book about C++, read it, find a nice little problem, and start fixing it
10:00<Weeknie>Not even 10 people:P
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10:00<Weeknie>Oh yeah, Yexo, I'm doing that as we speak:P
10:00<Alberth>Weeknie: and bits are important too :)
10:00<Weeknie>What do you mean exactly?
10:01<Alberth>Belugas: not entirely, atm I am quite fed up with the newgrf gui, yet I push through :)
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>Weeknie: an "easy" task for you to solve: introduce a method to divide the running costs of the vehicle by its reliability
10:02<planetmaker>lol. Outsourcing your latest idea and desire, Eddi|zuHause ? ;-)
10:02<Alberth>Weeknie: a lot of information is packed in collections of bits.
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, it is the easiest task from the top of my head ;)
10:02<Alberth>Weeknie: PHP and Python programming don't generally do single bit operations very much
10:02<Weeknie>I know
10:03<Weeknie>As it so happens I have been working with it a little though (in php anyway)
10:03<Weeknie>But I get your point
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10:05<Weeknie>Would it be possible to do any work with the git repos? I read you're using subversion as your main repo manager, are they all synced every so many time or is the subversion one just copied over to git and all others?
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>Weeknie: a "small" detail like i suggested lets you browse some parts of the code with a specific goal in mind ("where is the reliability stored", "where is the running cost calculated", etc.) and lets you learn a few programming techniques ("how do you do a division with fractional values when you can only use integers") that are crucial to the workings of openttd
10:05<planetmaker>Weeknie, they're usually synced
10:05<planetmaker>upon every commit to svn
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>Weeknie: you can use git or hg for your personal development
10:06<Alberth>highly recommended even
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>Weeknie: the repositories are synced automatically with each svn commit
10:06<SpComb>Weeknie: the git/hg repos are purely read-only
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10:06<planetmaker>^ slooow ;-)
10:06<Weeknie>Well atleast there's enough people here to help me out when I have a problem obviously:P
10:06<Weeknie>Thanks all ^_^
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>Weeknie: if you're done developing your patch, you usually send it to the bug tracker or open a thread at the forum [or both]
10:07<Alberth>Weeknie: the code style that is used:
10:08<@Belugas>Alberth, it's normal. I got fed up with some stuff myslef quite oftenly.
10:08<@Belugas>In fact, yo're more tenacious then me...
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10:14<Weeknie>Does anyone here know what the dev status is on that newGRF Airports state machine?
10:14<Weeknie>I mean
10:14<@peter1138>TENACIOUS D
10:14<Weeknie>Are there people working on it or?:P
10:15<Weeknie>I mean, really no one has any overview?
10:15<@Belugas>Weeknie, ask Yexo. peter1138, have i gooffed?
10:16<Weeknie>Yexo, see question above please?
10:16<Yexo>I have not really done anything on newgrf airports the last weeks (months?)
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10:16<Alberth>Belugas: :D
10:17<Alberth> is more readable for you :)
10:17<Weeknie>Do you know anyone who might know something?
10:17<Yexo>me :)
10:17<Alberth>everybody knows something :)
10:17<Weeknie>I was worried you were going to say that...
10:17<Yexo>status: next target is building some newgrf airports
10:17<Yexo>that is not too hard, it can probably be ripped out of the airports.hg repo pretty easily
10:18<Alberth>but not a C++ problem :)
10:18<Yexo>after that the main part has to be done: implementing the statemachine callback
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10:18<Yexo>there is a 'working' version in my hg repo, but I don't really like it
10:18<Weeknie>And that sounds like what I'd like to try to do, or atleast try to help with
10:19<Yexo>it's pretty much stalled because I haven't found a better way yet
10:20<Yexo>now that is a good reason for me to work on it again :)
10:20<Yexo>and I'll be very happy with any help I can get
10:21<Weeknie>Well, I'd have to start with another question though
10:21<Weeknie>Could you explain to me what you exactly want to do?
10:23<planetmaker>In laymen's terms it would be "a newgrf interface to airport implementation"
10:23<planetmaker>but that's as far as my knowledge there goes :-)
10:23<Yexo>^^ that :)
10:23<Weeknie>Yeah well that helps me:P
10:24<Yexo>make it possible to define airports + their statemachines in newgrf files
10:24<planetmaker>in a sane way :-)
10:24<Yexo>yes :)
10:24<Weeknie>statemachines being the ones that handle planes lading/taking off?
10:25<Alberth>all movement of planes afaik
10:25<Yexo>the statemachine is the code that handles all plane movement
10:25<Alberth>previous (failed) attempt:
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10:26<Alberth>Current development:
10:27<Weeknie>Quite funny to see something I never had to deal with in python or php
10:27<Weeknie>The problem thing
10:29<Alberth>then you programmed the wrong software in python and php :p
10:29<Weeknie>Lol well
10:30<Weeknie>In php I haven't been programming anything that would've required these kind of restrictions
10:30<Weeknie>They were just websites
10:30<Weeknie>And no biggies at that, so there wasn't any need to pay attention to memory management
10:30<Weeknie>Same goes for the python one actually
10:31<Weeknie>What do you exactly mean with "Every airport has 16 4-byte slots persistant storage (var 7C).", especially the 7C part
10:31<planetmaker>it's not memory only. But also speed of implementation ;-)
10:31<Weeknie>Oh brb, keep talking though:P
10:32<Yexo>Weeknie: that is/will be part of the newgrf spec
10:32<Yexo> <- current spec (no mention of airports there, but you get the idea)
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10:34<Weeknie>Ah yes, that was my question
10:34<Weeknie>What's actually the difference between TTDPatch and openTTD?
10:35<Weeknie>Or what is TTDPatch exactly
10:35<Yexo>TTDPatch adds new features to TTD by modifying the executable once it's loaded in memory
10:35<Yexo>as such it needs the original executable to run
10:36<Weeknie>Ah right
10:36<planetmaker>basically: ttdpatch is something entirely different
10:36<planetmaker>it's a modified ttd
10:36<Weeknie>And doesn't have anything to do with openTTD
10:37<planetmaker>whereas openttd is ttd re-written
10:37<Weeknie>Yup, get it
10:37<Weeknie>Then I don't care about TTDPatch from now on:P
10:37<planetmaker>don't start that.
10:37<Weeknie>Lol, sorry
10:37<planetmaker>such statements are prone to cause flame wars. Especially in the forums
10:38<planetmaker>and as you may have noted: the newgrf wiki is hosted on the TTDP website
10:38<planetmaker>while the ttdp nighlies are built by the openttd server
10:38<Weeknie>I won't say it anymore
10:38<Weeknie>But I must say
10:39<nighthawk_c_m>And there are quite a few people that play both versions
10:39<Weeknie>I don't mean it
10:39<nighthawk_c_m>Each has its advantages and disadvantages
10:39<Weeknie>tbh people shouldn't make a fuss about it
10:39*planetmaker plays OpenTTD only, though ;-)
10:39<Alberth>Weeknie: people should think before they speak
10:40<Weeknie>And neither do I care about whether you only play openTTD or also TTDPatch or do I know what
10:40<Weeknie>I know that
10:40<nighthawk_c_m>Actually, a question, why is the town rating influenced so dramatically by plowing away trees?
10:40<Weeknie>But if me saying that hurts you than I think I'm not the only one at fault so to speak
10:40<planetmaker>Weeknie, one starts to care about that when people mix up those games in questions ;-)
10:40<Alberth>people like trees!
10:40<nighthawk_c_m>The town rating is not based on People, its based on politicans
10:40<Weeknie>That is important yeah
10:40<planetmaker>nighthawk_c_m, you destroy the recreational areas for them!
10:41<nighthawk_c_m>They got parks, no need to whine
10:41<planetmaker>besides. Try to do that in real life. Quite realistic ;-)
10:41<nighthawk_c_m>Not if the city/government says we need that railroad
10:41<Weeknie>Lol yeah
10:41<Weeknie>But in this case they don't:P
10:41<planetmaker>that doesn't change that people get antagonized by cutting down trees.
10:41<nighthawk_c_m>then the activists can cry and beg and demonstrate as much as they want - just during early gameplay its very very annoying
10:42<Weeknie>Hmm, makes me wonder about something else lol
10:42<Weeknie>If a town has a subsidy under it
10:42<Weeknie>Will the rating fall just as hard?
10:42<Yexo>Weeknie: I'm pretty sure planetmaker doesn't care personally what you think about ttdpatch, but in general the "I don't care about ttdpatch" attitude is not going to work
10:42<planetmaker>nighthawk_c_m, quite not true. Then a lengthy process through all instances of courts has to be walked
10:42<Weeknie>With the thing you just said, that wouldn't really be realistic would it?
10:42<Yexo>and not just because the newgrf specs are shared
10:42<planetmaker>which will drag such thing through several years
10:42<Weeknie>yeah yeah, I'll just stop about it:P
10:42<Zuu>why wouldn't they like trees?
10:43<Alberth>Weeknie: realism is *not* a design criterium for OpenTTD
10:43<Zuu>Ops, not 100% scrolled down
10:43<planetmaker>s/um/on/ ;-)
10:43<nighthawk_c_m>True, I'm just seeing this in a game I have running, just started - and youi can cheat yourself to better terms by ervicing inner town stations
10:43<Alberth>planetmaker: indeed, thanks
10:44<planetmaker>Alberth, common mistake for German / Dutch people :-)
10:44<Weeknie>Lol, it is?
10:46<planetmaker>it's a non-intuitive thing.
10:46<planetmaker>usually the latin words are the same in all languages. Except here English uses the Greek stem instead of the Latin
10:47<Weeknie>Wait, what are you talking about exactly?
10:47<planetmaker>hm... or is it another declination in Latin? I'm talking about 'criterion' / 'criterium'
10:48<Weeknie>Not sure
10:48<Weeknie>But I don't know what's wrong with criterium
10:48<nighthawk_c_m>I'll have to pass on that, even so I had latin in school
10:49<Yexo>planetmaker: I think criterium (criteria for plural) is the latin form
10:49<Zuu>In Swedish it is 'kriterium' eg. it also ends with 'um'.
10:49<planetmaker>Yexo, yes, that's true.
10:49<Weeknie>I'm still in school, had latin 2 years ago
10:49<Weeknie>Forgot it myself:P
10:49<planetmaker>But the singular is the Greek singular. I don't know how Greek deklination works, though
10:49<Alberth>Weeknie: 'criterium' is not an english word
10:50<planetmaker>sorry Alberth that I make such fuss about it :-) It was not my intention.
10:50<Yexo>Alberth: actually it is:
10:50<planetmaker>I hope you don't mind ;-)
10:50<Alberth>not at all, go ahead
10:50<planetmaker>lol @ Yexo :-)
10:50<Weeknie>What should it be anyway?
10:51<Alberth>Weeknie: 'criterion' (s/um/on/ means 'substitute on for um')
10:52<planetmaker>vice versa :-P
10:52<Zuu>criterion at least got more hits at google than criterium.
10:52<Weeknie>Hmm well
10:52<Weeknie>Didn't know that
10:52<Alberth>Weeknie: not a gvim user nor a sed user, apparently :)
10:53<Weeknie>lol sorry:P
10:53<Zuu>Next, send him to vim school? ;-)
10:53<Alberth>well, if you want a good editor.... ;)
10:54<Weeknie>I wonder how fast I get murdered when I say I'm using netbeans
10:54<Weeknie>And actually on windows?
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10:55<planetmaker>δῶρον (st. δωρο-) present <-- seems to be a valid Greek declination with -on and -a for singular and plural respectively
10:55<planetmaker>the omicron declination for neuter :-)
10:56<Weeknie>omg, I'm still alive
10:56<planetmaker>s/declination/declension/ :-)
10:56<IPG>i think i found a bug... in the latest nightly
10:56<IPG>sorry if anybody said it before
10:56<Alberth>Weeknie: I don't mind you having to fight with Windows or netbeans, or both :)
10:57<Weeknie>Lol, well that's a first from anyone:P
10:57<Alberth>IPG: today not yet
10:57<IPG>if i track the minimap to the NW end of the map, it shows a big black nothin
10:57<IPG>it also does with my NE end
10:58<planetmaker>can you scroll, IPG?
10:58<IPG>yes i can
10:58<Yexo>what else do you expect outside the map?
10:58<IPG>so i can go back
10:58<IPG>and it shows as normal
10:59<planetmaker>Weeknie, and now probably Alberth decides that it's an interesting problem and will take charge of that :-P
10:59<planetmaker>Or I'm terribly wrong :-)
10:59<planetmaker>But anyway it's self-organizing here ;-)
10:59<IPG>but if i am starting to arrive to the end, it suddenly goes black
10:59<Weeknie>Yeah I get it
11:00<Alberth>planetmaker: I am only confirming the problem, I'll ket Weeknie do the solving ;)
11:00<planetmaker>hehe :-)
11:00<Yexo>the minimap is completely black here, but that might be due to a very small map size
11:00<planetmaker>good choice actually
11:00<Weeknie>But would there be any place to see who is working on what, so I, having just missed this conversation and for whatever reason hearing it in the evening, gonna do it too, and end up doing the same work as Alberth? (or myself, apparently)
11:00<Alberth>Yexo: it should never be completely black, the center should always have a point at the mapo
11:00<Weeknie>Sneaky typing while I'm typing bastards that you are:p
11:01<Yexo>Alberth: try a 64x64 map
11:02<Weeknie>Lol, industry is going nuts, whole island is full
11:02<Weeknie>But I see the black map anyway
11:03<Alberth>Weeknie: there is no such place
11:04<Weeknie>Hmm ok
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11:06<Alberth>It looks like a uint underflow problem to me
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11:09<Alberth>does anybody how to setup make to use -j2 by default?
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11:13<planetmaker>Alberth, you want it to run with less than all cores available?
11:13<planetmaker>"With no argument, make runs as many jobs simultaneously as possible."
11:14<Alberth>that's make -j but I want to type 'make' and get 'make -j2'
11:14<Alberth>make -j is sort of useless, as starting 50-60 compile processes is not going fast
11:15<Alberth>the machine would just start swapping :p
11:15<Weeknie>erm, make an alias?
11:15<Weeknie>What system are you working on?
11:15<planetmaker>ah... I understood that wrongly, Alberth :-) Thanks, you're right
11:15<planetmaker>I always assumed that it would do that automatically... even without -j
11:15<Weeknie>Not sure which file it was
11:16<Weeknie>I believe the ~/.bash-profile (or any that comes close) was the right one
11:16*Alberth guesses Weeknie picks the wrong file
11:16<planetmaker>still the alias thing would probably work
11:16<Alberth>Weeknie: I use z-shell :)
11:16<Weeknie>The alias thing is how you should do it:P
11:16<Weeknie>Erm, yeah
11:16<Alberth>yes, it is a good suggestion, thanks
11:17<Weeknie>Then the bash-profile one won't work:P
11:17<Weeknie>But just make sure the alias gets evaluated at every boot
11:17<Weeknie>And then it works
11:17<Alberth>every new shell even, aliases don't get exported to child processes
11:17<Weeknie>Erm yeah
11:18<Weeknie>Well, the bash-profile would do both for bash:P
11:18<Weeknie>(when you have the correct file anyway)
11:18<Alberth>afaik ~/.bash_profile is only for login
11:18<Alberth>(I need to edit ~/.zshrc )
11:18<Weeknie>I was close:D
11:19<planetmaker>probably :-)
11:19<Weeknie>I'm happy I remembered that much lol
11:19<Weeknie>I had a course, failed it miserably (not really my fault, they promised quite the opposite of what I got, but that aside)
11:19<Weeknie>Atleast it's helped me 1 time now:P
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11:25<Weeknie>hmm, now that I'm thinking about it, C++ development is quite different compared to dev of PHP or Python
11:25<Weeknie>Those files you can just save and then hit f5 or restart the program
11:25<Weeknie>In C++ you'll have to compile it continouisly, right?
11:26<planetmaker>depends upon the definition of 'continuously'
11:26<Alberth>too often, yes :)
11:26<Weeknie>Erm well, every time you make a change and want to test it out
11:26<Weeknie>Next chapter in my tutorial
11:28<Zuu>Weeknie: In Visual studio you will just hit F5 and it will compile and then run your program. :-p
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11:28<Weeknie>Lol, f6 for netbeans
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11:29<Weeknie>But first it has to compile
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11:29<Weeknie>About how long would that take with openTTD (with an average pc)
11:29<Zuu>10-15 minutes or so.
11:29<Zuu>If you compile from scratch.
11:29<Weeknie>I see
11:29<Weeknie>Go on
11:30<Zuu>But if you only make changes to a cpp file, then only that file needs to be re-compiled.
11:30<Weeknie>(yes I'm really totally new to this:P)
11:30<Zuu>If you on the other hand change a .h file that gets included by many cpp files, then all those cpp files need to be re-compiled. :-p
11:30<planetmaker>Zuu, that's a long time span...
11:31<planetmaker>even my 3-year old laptop is faster
11:31<+glx>Zuu: like stdafx.h ;)
11:31-!-holyduck [~holyduck@] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen]
11:31<Weeknie>Header files, yeah, I guess I'll run into them somewhere along the way
11:31<+glx>true for english.txt changes too
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11:31<Zuu>planetmaker: Since I don't know exactly the "average pc" it's hard to give a small interval.
11:32<Weeknie>Yeah ok, that's a little hard
11:32<Weeknie>But well, it takes some time, a lot longer for a page to refresh anyway:p
11:32<Weeknie>On the other hand, like you said, depends on what I change
11:33<planetmaker>if you just play with a single cpp file, it re-compiles very quickly
11:33<planetmaker>if you built it once before.
11:33<Weeknie>Yeah, but else you'll have to build the whole project and that takes a while
11:34<planetmaker>it always depends on what changed
11:34<Zuu>If you would be using visual studio, you should be compiling debug builds as the release builds take minutes to link. Not sure if that also holds for netbeans. But if netbeans uses gcc, then it is probably not that bad compared to Visual Studio link times.
11:35<Weeknie>netbeans can use gcc yeah
11:35<Weeknie>It can use any compiler:P
11:35<Weeknie>Set it up with minGW, and that one has the gcc compiler
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11:35<Weeknie>Or well
11:35<Weeknie>It has gcc:p
11:35<@Belugas>ho... tenacious is not a word :S "stubborn" then !
11:37<Zuu>A really good thing with compiled code is that the compiler eliminates many mistakes in the code even before you try to run the code.
11:38<Zuu>In php etc. you will only find some coding errors when that code is executed.
11:38<Weeknie>yeah well
11:38<Weeknie>On the other hand
11:38<Weeknie>in php you just press f5
11:38<Weeknie>See the error
11:38<Weeknie>And you can instantly fix it
11:38<Weeknie>If you were doing a complete compile and then only halfway the compiler detects the error
11:39<Weeknie>You can start all over again
11:39<Weeknie>Hmm wait
11:39<Weeknie>Unrealistic scenario
11:39<planetmaker>you don't.
11:39<planetmaker>you continue to compile where it failed
11:39<planetmaker>unless you change part of what is compiled, too
11:42<Weeknie>Hmm right
11:43<Weeknie>Hmm well, pointers aren't that hard
11:43<planetmaker>until they get you into segmentation faults and null pointer assignments
11:43<Weeknie>Which are?:P
11:44<planetmaker>hm, not assignment. but dereference
11:44<Terkhen>yeah, they are cleverly disguised to look harmless :P
11:44<Alberth>Weeknie: a crash of the program
11:44<planetmaker>Weeknie, they are those things which drive you nuts ;-)
11:45<Weeknie>Null pointer dereference, would that happen to be a pointer to a memory block that has already been cleared? (aka doesn't really belong to the program anymore)
11:45*planetmaker had yesterday probably two dozen or so of some kind of that
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11:48<Alberth>Weeknie: NULL is usually outside the addressable memory of the application, so you get a nice crash
11:49<Alberth>Weeknie: accessing memory that you free()-ed is indeed much nastier. What happens, depends on the contents that happens to be there.
11:49<Weeknie>yeah, and we all love those
11:49<Alberth>Weeknie: if you are unlucky, the program will continue to run
11:50<Weeknie>With what is actually just random data?:P
11:50<Weeknie>that's awesome:D
11:50<Weeknie>But no, I get it;)
11:52<Alberth>Equally nice is to have 2 pointers that you think point to different memory, actually use the same memory.
11:53<Weeknie>Can imagine that yeah
11:53<Alberth>or they share only a small part
11:53<Weeknie>Even more fun
11:53<Alberth>happy debugging :)
11:53<Weeknie>I do wonder how you'd do that though:P
11:54<Alberth>I once spend 3 weeks debugging, only to find that the compiler generated the wrong code
11:54<Weeknie>And how did that happen?
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11:56<Alberth>it was with a 6809 compiler, where a 16bit integer was stored in 2 8bit registers. The -- in x[--i] got computed wrong, so it actually added 255 or so.
11:56<Weeknie>Oh right
11:56<Alberth>that was a really bad compiler, we found several errors in it, more than in our own code :p
11:57<Weeknie>It was substracting from the first 8bit register instead of the 2nd one like it should've, right?
11:57<Alberth>I forgot the details
11:58<Weeknie>that is a bad compiler indeed anyways
12:01<Alberth>Another fun example was "abc\0xyz", which got translated to "abc0xyz"
12:01<Weeknie>Is that a general compiler thing or that bad compiler failing?
12:02<Alberth>I hope that bad compiler failing, afaik \0 means a null byte (ie 0x00), instead of '0' (ie 0x30). I never checked it with another compiler though
12:04<+glx>undefined behaviour are nice to chase too
12:04<Alberth>or 32bit vs 64bit behaviour :)
12:05<+glx>optimisation bugs ;)
12:05<Weeknie>Sounds like fun too yeah
12:05<Alberth>Weeknie: so many new ways to make a mess, compared to python :)
12:05<Weeknie>And PHP yeah:P
12:05<+glx>(all cited things already encountered in openttd IIRC)
12:06<Alberth>and 'int' versus 'unsigned int' (as with the minimap)
12:08<Weeknie>Did you fix that black bug?
12:08<Alberth>I do have a fix, just checking whether I can reduce it, and whether it then still works always
12:09<Alberth>hmm, that sentence is wrong :p
12:09<Weeknie>erm, i actually meant to say "Did that fix that black bug"
12:09<Weeknie>As in was that the problem?:P
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12:11<Alberth>it was introduced in 19816, where several values changed from int to uint, so it is a pretty safe bet that it is the cause of the black map :p
12:15<Weeknie>Well, I wonder how the map worked before the
12:15<Alberth> proposed fix
12:15<Weeknie>int to unint sounds like negative and positive values with 0.0 in the middle to 0.0 top left and counting upwards
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12:16<Alberth>uint is the unsigned integer from 0 to 2^32-1 int is the integer value of -2^31 to 2^31-1
12:16<Weeknie>Yeah I know that
12:17<Alberth>oh, you said that, I see now
12:17<Alberth>the fun is when you have a negative number and consider it to be a uint. It gets very large then
12:18<Weeknie>Yeah I know how that works:P
12:18<Alberth>well, trunk gets modified very heavily, so every now and then, something breaks
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12:20<Weeknie>Lol, obviously:P
12:21<Alberth>it is quite seldom, if you look at how many changes happen
12:22<Weeknie>Yes yes:P
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12:22*Alberth << food
12:24<Aylomen>Am I blind? Or where can I change my password on
12:24<Weeknie>Food too!:D
12:24<Weeknie>Be back soonish
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12:29<Ammler>Aylomen: somewhere on the footer is a Link
12:29<Aylomen>there is just privay policy profile logout and contasct
12:30<Aylomen>and profile says: This page is not yet done, but will be in the very near feature.
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12:40<fonsinchen>The cargodist test game is running at
12:41<fonsinchen>you can get binaries for various platforms at
12:41<fonsinchen>have fun
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12:45<Ammler>Aylomen: sorry then, it was there sometime
12:46<Ammler>maybe before the merge
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12:58<Zuu>yep, indeed you can't change your password.
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12:59<Ammler>Zuu: maybe you should change ottdau to cargodist instead dest
13:01<Weeknie>And there I am again
13:01<Weeknie>What's that cargodist thing about?
13:03<Weeknie>Hmm, what is the #openttdcoop channel for?
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13:10<fonsinchen>cargodist is a system to automatically transfer and distribute cargo in your network
13:10-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
13:10<fonsinchen>like "cargo destinations", but a little more.
13:11<planetmaker>Weeknie: have a guess by the name
13:11<Weeknie>cargo distribution
13:11<Weeknie>But what does it mean for openTTD?:P
13:12<planetmaker>Well, I could also have referred to that question, yes ;-)
13:13<fonsinchen>if you have a pax line from a to b and one from b to c with cargodist passengers will be automatically transferred at b so that some of them go from a to c and from c to a.
13:13<planetmaker>but that was already answered and not your last question :-P
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13:18<Weeknie>I see
13:19<Weeknie>So that you make more money
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13:21<planetmaker>Weeknie: not quite
13:21<planetmaker>rather less
13:21<Weeknie>Erm wut?
13:23<planetmaker>making money is a no-brainer with OpenTTD
13:23<Weeknie>Ya ok:P
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13:31<Alberth>Weeknie: you get a lot of transport over multiple hops, so a heavier load of the network.
13:31<Zuu>Ammler: does cargodist has a finger? Otherwise it will be hard. Cargodest is on
13:32<Weeknie>Erm, what's cargodest for?:P
13:32<Ammler>TrueBrain: could you also write a finger to
13:32<Weeknie>Oh wow, nvm
13:32<Weeknie>Found it in openttd wiki
13:32*TrueBrain gets a pen and paper
13:32<Ammler>so not possible :-)
13:32<TrueBrain>if I had any idea what the fuck you were talking about, most likely not
13:32<Ammler>maybe I could do it with a cron
13:33<Ammler>the CF does move the bundles to, could it also write a versions file there?
13:33<TrueBrain>I speak in riddles
13:34<TrueBrain>how about you?
13:34<Ammler>oh, still?
13:34<TrueBrain>I always wonder what make people think I can read their mind
13:34<TrueBrain>I know I can act godlike, but seriously?
13:34<+glx>because you're a true brain ?
13:34<TrueBrain>1-0 for glx ;)
13:35<Ammler>the CF of does compile bundles for some 3rdparty patches and move those to
13:35<Zuu>TrueBrain: I think Ammler want something similar to for :-)
13:36<Zuu>So that he can pass me the link, and then I add a new target to OpenTTD Auto Update for eg. Cargodist.
13:36<Ammler>well, for those bundles compiled at
13:36<TrueBrain>Zuu: owh, that; he should fix that himself :)
13:36<Ammler>well, you can push it, I would need to pull it
13:36<Ammler>but that is fine then :-)
13:39<TrueBrain>put a script on the ssh account or something
13:39<TrueBrain>easy enough
13:43<TrueBrain>we can also execute something over the ssh connection after compile is done btw
13:44<TrueBrain>that is how our finger updates
13:44<TrueBrain>for example: /var/www/ "custom/cargodest" "@@revision@@" "@@date@@"
13:44<Ammler>hmm, that would be nice
13:44<TrueBrain>is excuted over the ssh connection
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13:45<TrueBrain>(the CF is completely isolated and can only push data)
13:45<Ammler>so I need to create a bash script, which writes the versions.txt
13:45<Ammler>hmm, you like to share your script?
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19820 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 78 changes by josesun
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: german - 17 changes by planetmaker
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 17 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 28 changes by BlinK_
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: polish - 1 changes by silver_777
13:46<TrueBrain>yes; I think that is a good excercise for you
13:47<TrueBrain>(mostly as our script does much much more, like generating the index.htmls and stuff)
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13:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19821 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix (r19816): Minimap displayed a black screen instead of the upper edge of the map (reported by IPG).
13:51<Alberth>thanks for the report
13:51<IPG>i'm glad to help you :)
13:55<planetmaker>moin andythenorth
13:58*andythenorth wonders what to work on
13:59<Weeknie>Care for a state machine thing?:p
13:59<Zuu>You're welceome to finish my thesis report.
14:00<andythenorth>Zuu: what's the subject?
14:00<Zuu>improving a roundabout capacity model
14:01<Weeknie>Real life transportation shit?
14:01<andythenorth>civil engineering or comp sci?
14:01<Zuu>civil engineering
14:01*andythenorth did one year of civil engineering degree then switched
14:01<andythenorth>so no
14:01*Alberth experimented with a roundabout in OpenTTD some months back :p
14:02<andythenorth>Zuu: if you need anything about politics, philosophy of science, cultural theory, or post-modern/post-structuralist analysis, I can help
14:02<Weeknie>Cargo dest thingy not working
14:02<andythenorth>also pixel
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14:02<andythenorth>and also html, css, and some very basic python
14:03<andythenorth>planetmaker: how is our GUI adventure?
14:03<Zuu>Actually the model I'm studying model roundabouts like a series of T-intersections.
14:05<Zuu>The GUI adventure, sounds like a good topic.
14:05<planetmaker> <-- andythenorth
14:05<planetmaker>I kind play currently around with moving the heightmap into that window
14:06<planetmaker>as that window shares many of those options, it should get integrated there, too.
14:06<andythenorth>screenie? Or do I need to compile? :)
14:06<planetmaker>Which is nicer than making everything twice for that one
14:06<Zuu>There is two png files.
14:06<planetmaker>^ :-)
14:06<planetmaker>but without the heightmap
14:06<planetmaker>which is not looking well so far
14:07<fonsinchen>Weeknie, what are you trying to do and how does it fail?
14:07<Weeknie>Erm, wut?
14:07<Weeknie>What gave you that impression?:P
14:08<Weeknie>I'm not working on anything yet
14:08<Weeknie>Still have to finish my C++ tutorial:P
14:08<planetmaker>I haven't yet decided to change the panel colour. But I guess it looks much better, if done, just as you proposed, andythenorth
14:09<fonsinchen>You said "Cargo dest thingy not working"
14:09<Weeknie>Oh right
14:09<Weeknie>NO, by that I mean that I got me a cargodest install through the auto updater
14:09<Weeknie>But it didn't work
14:09<Weeknie>Missing or something like that?
14:09<fonsinchen>Try cargodist
14:10<planetmaker>dIst not dEst, Weeknie
14:10<fonsinchen>you'll still have to put the data files in the right place, then
14:10-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
14:10<planetmaker>same idea, but principally different approach
14:10<Weeknie>Erm, well
14:10<Weeknie>It would've compained about that
14:10<andythenorth>planetmaker: I might have a go with the GUI code.
14:10<Weeknie>But now that I think about it
14:10<andythenorth>not on a friday night though
14:10<Weeknie>Forgot that
14:11<planetmaker>andythenorth: it's no principal thing. I know exactly where to do it :-)
14:11<planetmaker>and even how
14:11<Ammler>TrueBrain: Usage: /home/openttd/public_html/ <project> <version> <date> [<branch>]
14:11<planetmaker>but sure, go ahead :-)
14:11<planetmaker>it's just that I wanted to keep steps small
14:11<planetmaker>and changing that colour is a step possible independently
14:11<TrueBrain>Ammler: you have seen the format available by the one I gave you
14:11<planetmaker>and actually at any time within that process
14:12<Ammler>TrueBrain: yes, should match
14:12<TrueBrain>Ammler: and I am not going to adjust our script to comply to your format .. so please give me a line of execution in the format I gave you
14:14<Ammler>"branch" is for the projects on the DevZone
14:14<Ammler>maybe I should rename it to type
14:14<TrueBrain>I care 0.0000 what is for what :)
14:14<TrueBrain>I want an exact line I can copy/paste
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14:19<Ammler>ok, I test it from my local over ssh
14:23<Ammler>ssh -t /home/openttd/bin/ "cargodist|is2" "@@revision@@" "@@date@@"
14:23<Ammler>TrueBrain: ^
14:24-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
14:24<Ammler>dunno the var for the project :-)
14:24<Ammler>but else it is like your paste, isn't?
14:24<Zuu>Weeknie: Not sure if someone helped you as I was on the phone, but OpenTTD Auto Update do not copy the TTD data files and/or OpenGFX/OpenSFX to the new installations. Instead, it is good practice to place those in your personal OpenTTD dir where all installations can find them.
14:25<Weeknie>I know, that's probs what I forgot
14:25<Weeknie>But I don't care actually
14:25<Weeknie>The homedir thing is a good idea though
14:26<Ammler>Zuu: does the finger file match the format you have from
14:26<Zuu>Just what I'm checking (got to take a phone call, so I haven't came that far yet)
14:27<Zuu>Weeknie: The OpenTTD readme explains where it searches for data files.
14:27<Weeknie>Sorry, was too lazy:P
14:27<Weeknie>But thanks anyway;)
14:29<Ammler>hmm, I do not have tabs
14:29<Ammler>my vim does convert tabs to spaces..
14:29<TrueBrain>Ammler: I just copy/pasted the line into the settings, it is up to you to make sure it works
14:29<Alberth>Ammler: ^V TAB
14:31<TrueBrain>Ammler: you want that line for cargodist or is2?
14:32<Ammler>oh, if you copy paste, wait
14:32<TrueBrain>I told you like 3 times
14:32<Ammler>cargodst: ssh -t /home/openttd/bin/ "cargodist" "@@revision@@" "@@date@@"
14:32<andythenorth>@seen pikka
14:32<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 29 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Pikka> @calc andythenorth
14:32<Ammler>is2: ssh -t /home/openttd/bin/ "is2" "@@revision@@" "@@date@@"
14:33<TrueBrain>for that I asked, didn't I? So hard to do what someone asks? omg ..
14:33<Ammler>well, i have no idea, how your script works
14:33<Ammler>so you do that for every project again?
14:33<TrueBrain>I told you what I wanted, didn't I? Just comply, all you can do :p
14:33<TrueBrain>either way, installed
14:34<Ammler>thanks you :-)
14:34<TrueBrain>no, it is a global mask which magically works for all projects ....
14:34<TrueBrain>of course it is for every project
14:34*andythenorth offers TrueBrain something for his frazzled nerves
14:35<Ammler>I need to convert to tabs, but that is on my side
14:35*planetmaker compiles *.gui... and gets an error :S
14:35<TrueBrain>andythenorth: tnx, but no tnx, I am fine ;)
14:35*andythenorth buys a depressing song on itunes
14:36<Weeknie>Have fun dieing
14:38<TrueBrain>andythenorth: I am just always greatly suprised that it seems impossible to follow simple instructions :p
14:38<andythenorth>so is my wife
14:39<planetmaker>it depends upon 'simple' and the assumed familiarity with a topic
14:39<TrueBrain>planetmaker: well, make a line identical to mine which I can copy/paste, should be easy enough for any person, not? :)
14:39<TrueBrain>andythenorth: says more about you than your wife I guess ;)
14:40<planetmaker> <-- just for you, andythenorth :-)
14:40<andythenorth>planetmaker: maybe we made it too nice :P
14:40<andythenorth>lots of the default game isn't that nice :)
14:44<planetmaker> <-- the patch for adding that widget
14:44<Zuu>Ammler: It will probably work, I'm currently adding support to specify which binary server to use. All previous finger targets use, so I need to override that for cargodist+is2.
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14:48<fonsinchen>btw, the compile farm still produces the "M", but only on windows binaries.
14:48-!-luddek [] has joined #openttd
14:48<fonsinchen>That sucks. Royally.
14:48<Ammler>there it doesn't use findversion, afaik
14:49<TrueBrain>findversion.vbs is your friend
14:49<TrueBrain>or enemy
14:49<TrueBrain>don't care :p
14:49<fonsinchen>I can't test vbs scripts here
14:49<fonsinchen>is it possible to make an isolated recompile of the windows binaries?
14:50<fonsinchen>ah, but the git revisions won't match then
14:50<fonsinchen>What a mess.
14:51<Ammler>well, we could remake the whole thing, so we know finger update works too :-)
14:51<TrueBrain>not worth my time to trigger 1 target .. maybe Rubidium wants to, but I rather recompile the whole set
14:51<planetmaker>hm... that diff is way too
14:52<fonsinchen>I guess I'll just switch off the modification detection completely now.
14:52<fonsinchen>It doesn't work and I cannot reproduce the problem. It's somewhat nondeterministic
14:53<Ammler>well, is2 made a release changeset and reverted it right after compile with tagging
14:54<Ammler>long time ago since last is2 release :-)
14:56<planetmaker>andythenorth: the repo for this stuff is on the DevZone, project openttd-gui
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14:57<Zuu>Ammler: It seems to work: (so far I've only updated my secondary server that practically nobody uses unless is down.)
14:58<Ammler>nice :-)
14:58<Zuu>I haven't tested it using the client program yet as I don't have a developer client on this program, so I can't make it available only for me at the moment. hhm, I could use my IP though.
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15:04<Zuu>A problem with cargodist is that the version string in the binary (.exe) is not the same as the one finger tells.
15:05<Ammler>yeah, I already told fonsinchen
15:05<Zuu>For cargodEst it looks like this: "Development h3b244a8f". For cargodIst it looks like this: "Development g3c5595c9M-cd"
15:05<fonsinchen>I'm working on that.
15:06<Zuu>Are you planing to remove the "-cd" part also?
15:06<Ammler>or adding it to :-)
15:08<fonsinchen>no, the "cd" will stay
15:08<Zuu>The IS2 is working fine though. (added it as well to ottdau.
15:08<fonsinchen>I just switch off the modification detection
15:08<fonsinchen>TrueBrain, how does the compile farm determine the names of the output files?
15:09<fonsinchen>Ie, why does it call them "*cargodist*" instead of "*cd*"?
15:09<TrueBrain>cargodist is in the configure I believe
15:09<Ammler>that is set from "us"
15:09<TrueBrain>the version comes from, via a bit of magic
15:09<Ammler>=folder on
15:10<Ammler>version is the 3rd field, afaik
15:10<fonsinchen>I don't get it. Which 3rd field? Can I do anything about it?
15:11<Ammler>well, dunno, how proper it is to patch findversion in that respect
15:11<TrueBrain>I also have no idea :p
15:11<Ammler>but it works for is2
15:11<fonsinchen>so you get findversion to output a directory somehow?
15:12<TrueBrain>this conversation is too vague for me ;) Let me know if you have any more questions about the CF itself :)
15:12<Zuu>In the binaries there is a embeded version that show in --help in linux, or in the file properties in windows. For branches etc. this should as far as I've understood it be "Development <version>".
15:12<Zuu>If <version> is not the same as finger reports, then OpenTTD Auto Update will think there is a newer version and suggest that it should be updated.
15:13<Zuu>So you can't have "-cd" at one place, but not the others.
15:13<planetmaker>maybe it works for you
15:14<Zuu>Unless I strip of everything after "-" in the version I get from the binaries.
15:14<Ammler> <-- is2.1.1 release commit
15:15<fonsinchen>planetmaker: that sets the version to a fixed string
15:15<Ammler>fonsinchen: revert after compile
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: that isn't possible on the compile farm
15:16<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: an not needed either
15:16<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: yes, is2 made the release commit, asked for compile, after compile tagged and reverted
15:16<planetmaker>the CF just needs to build - with proper filename and version. The rest is repo issues outside the cf
15:17<planetmaker>might be sub-optimal, but works reliably
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>but that's not the point of
15:17<planetmaker>true. But releases are different
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>... or findversion.vbs
15:18<Ammler>well, the "M" is a bug of git detection
15:18<fonsinchen>I still don't know how the compile farm gets the "cargodist" filename part from
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and you propose a workaround, instead of working on a fix
15:18<Ammler>fonsinchen: it doesn't
15:18<Ammler>that is set in the setting for the project
15:19<Ammler>with the location of the repo, of the bundles location etc.
15:19<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: that I can answer very simple:
15:19<TrueBrain># cat 0000018/version
15:19<TrueBrain>that is a configuration setting :)
15:19<fonsinchen>so we can just change the setting there and I can commit the removal of modification detection now, I guess.
15:19<TrueBrain>the @@revision@@ part comes via
15:19<Ammler>fonsinchen: patch 3rd field for the release
15:20<Ammler>like IS2
15:20<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: but we dictate that string
15:21<fonsinchen>we can just change "cargodist-@@revision@@" for "cd-@@revision@@", can't we?
15:21-!-luddek [] has quit [Quit: luddek]
15:23<Ammler>fonsinchen: it would be nice to have cd in the version
15:23<Ammler>so someone can guess the patch from it
15:23<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: cargodist and cargodest are too closed named, so it will remain cargodist as long as the CF produces the binaries
15:24<Zuu>Ammler: but then it wolud be nice if the "cd" appears not just in the binaries, but also in the version string used all over.
15:24<Ammler>Zuu: that would happen, if fonsinchen does patch in that respect
15:26<fonsinchen>In what way shall I patch
15:26<Zuu>but if not, I guess I'm fine. I can make a hack for the case when the cargodist release target is selected, if I'm just told how to convert a binary reported version into the version reported by the finger url.
15:26<Zuu>eg, removing '-' and everything after that is fairly simple.
15:26<Ammler> <-- fonsinchen file
15:27<Ammler>Zuu: you are not the only one, who needs to hack
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15:27<fonsinchen>I cannot permanently fix the version to a constant string ...
15:27<Ammler>echo "$REV $REV_NR $MODIFIED $CLEAN_REV-cd" for example
15:29<Ammler>fonsinchen: again, that changeset for IS2 releases got reverted right after the CF made the bundles
15:29-!-luddek [] has joined #openttd
15:29<fonsinchen>OK, then. I'll do it.
15:30-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:30<Ammler>if you don't want to make release commit, you could simply add the suffix -cd
15:30<Ammler>that wouldn't hurt for non releases, would it?
15:31<fonsinchen>you mean in findversion?
15:31<fonsinchen>And that would help?
15:32<Ammler>that is the only difference I see
15:32<Ammler>well except the "M" glitch
15:32<fonsinchen>so I'll do that then
15:32<Ammler>but the "M" is gone now?
15:33<fonsinchen>but will the compile farm still understand it then?
15:33<Ammler>the compile farm does use your
15:33<fonsinchen>I have removed the modification detection in and determineversion.vbs
15:34<fonsinchen>so I better not change the output. Otherwise it will glitch out again.
15:36<fonsinchen>if that helps anyone why doesn't that person read the first field of findversion's output instead of the last?
15:36<Ammler>because it wants the clean rev?
15:37<Ammler>oh, it is the 4th :-)
15:37<fonsinchen>So now I go and make that "clean" rev "unclean" by adding the branch name.
15:37<fonsinchen>sort of absurd, isn't it?
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>... i don't understand anymore what you're talking about...
15:38<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I gave up a few minutes ago too :p
15:38<TrueBrain>if they try to modify the name of the files, they will fail
15:38<TrueBrain>if they try to modify the string displayed in the game, they are doing it in a weird way
15:38<TrueBrain>so I gave up :)
15:38<Zuu>I guess the binaries use the "clean" rev in their version info. And if you want "-cd" in there, then you have to properly modify the "clean" rev, or things will break.
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling Ammler, fonsinchen and Zuu are talking about completely different things each...
15:39<TrueBrain>does the left hand ever know what the right hand does?
15:39<fonsinchen>alve@schaf:~/projekte/openttd$ bin/openttd --version
15:39<Zuu>Or at least all three of us have different perspectives.
15:39<fonsinchen>OpenTTD gaf524ac1-smallmap-zoom-in
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>no... but the brain should know what each hand does ;)
15:39<fonsinchen>definitely not the clean version
15:40<Zuu>hmm, yep indeed, I got it backwards.
15:40<fonsinchen>I'll leave it as it is now and push it.
15:41<Zuu>It is in the finger file that it uses the clean version, and that is why matching the finger info with the version from the binary failed.
15:41<Ammler>just run findversion, if 1st field is like 4th, it is fine
15:42<Weeknie>Could someone tell me how pointers to pointers are usefull?
15:42<TrueBrain>Zuu: does your tool work for the head-to-head branch?
15:42<TrueBrain>Weeknie: 2D arrays
15:42<fonsinchen>TrueBrain, would you please build another version now?
15:42<TrueBrain>then I really don't understand the fuzz :p
15:42<Weeknie>2D arrays how?
15:43<Ammler>TrueBrain: head-to-head is no branch, afaik
15:43<@Belugas>fuzz : It's a device that generates a rounchy sound, very distorded
15:43<Ammler>is2 either
15:43<Zuu>head-to-head reports "Development h35be7d1d" as version string while cargodist reports "Development g3c5595c9M-cd"
15:43<TrueBrain>I believe we dismissed those postfixes a while back ..
15:43<@Belugas>songs that used the fuzz : Stones : Satisfaction
15:43<Zuu>Yep, but fonsinchen decided to add it manually to his cargodist.
15:43<TrueBrain>stupid of him
15:43<Alberth>Weeknie: if you want to change a pointer from within a function, you need its address, ie a pointer to the pointer
15:44<Zuu>without making sure that finger also reports the post-fix.
15:44<fonsinchen>I didn't
15:44<fonsinchen>the only thing I did now was removing the modification detection
15:44<Ammler>fonsinchen: where is "-cd" from then?
15:44<TrueBrain>Weeknie: open a good C book ;)
15:44<fonsinchen>everything else is stupid
15:44<fonsinchen>that's the branch name
15:44<+glx>Weeknie: arrays can be accessed using pointers
15:44<Weeknie>I know that
15:45<+glx>and 2D arrays are arrays of arrays
15:45<Alberth>GRFConfig lists use pointers to pointers
15:46<Weeknie>And I thought pointers were easy:P
15:46<TrueBrain>glx: 2d (or 3d) arrays are accessed by pointers, they have no other way ;)
15:46<Weeknie>I should've known
15:46<Alberth>they are :)
15:46<Alberth>conceptually, at least
15:46<TrueBrain>Weeknie: pointers are the most difficult concept to understand, but once understood the most easiest to understand :)
15:46<Ammler>fonsinchen: either you remove branch name or you add it to
15:46<Weeknie>erm, well
15:46<Weeknie>I understand them
15:46<+glx>autoreplace used to (or still) use pointers to pointers to pointers
15:46<Weeknie>But to remember what yo ucan all do:P
15:46<TrueBrain>char **array_of_strings;
15:46<TrueBrain>other example
15:47<Ammler>maybe the compilefarm can't handle branches of git
15:47<+glx>yup for non fixed size 2D arrays
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>three-star, four-star and five-star programs ;)
15:48<+glx>Weeknie: in C you can do almost everything
15:48<TrueBrain>glx: well, only optimizers which are 'clever' enough make 1D arrays from 2D arrays, yes :p
15:48<Weeknie>glx, I know:P
15:48<+glx>that's why using pointers when you don't understand them is dangerous :)
15:48<fonsinchen>The compile farm has detected the branch name fine
15:49<TrueBrain>[2010-05-14 19:48:19] Task 0003257 created (git://, g9e7e0a6b)
15:49<andythenorth>planetmaker: I've got a compile error with the gui project
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>you can not prove whether an arbitrary C program stops, or two arbitrary C programs produce identical output
15:49<fonsinchen>thanks a lot
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>not even in C ;)
15:49<TrueBrain>somewhere in a dark basement a computer spins up and starts to make this weird noise
15:49<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you cannot do that for much simpler languages already
15:49<andythenorth>are pointers difficult?
15:50<fonsinchen>... just before making this other weird noise and spinning down for the last time.
15:50<Alberth>andythenorth: just like NFO, if you get it, it is trivial
15:50<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: lets hope not :) Would be a bit of a disaster :p
15:50<+glx>andythenorth: not really, but incorrect usage can have nice effects
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yes, there are very simple languages that are turing-complete
15:50<andythenorth>I only get it because they're one of Joel's hiring criteria, so I tried to understand them
15:51<Ammler>[21:48] <TrueBrain> [2010-05-14 19:48:19] Task 0003257 created (git://, g9e7e0a6b) <-- no -cd
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>brainfuck, for example, has only 8 different instructions
15:51<TrueBrain>Ammler: not even allowed by the CF
15:51<fonsinchen>Well, I'll go and fetch my hopefully clean laundry. I'll be back in a few minutes.
15:51<TrueBrain>we didcate the name
15:52<TrueBrain>but I guess this battle is endless, as it was held from the beginning of automated compiles in OpenTTD .. and we have had many formats
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15:52*andythenorth always wonders with pointers
15:52<TrueBrain>THEY POINT AT YOU!
15:52<andythenorth>if conceptually you understand what something like array.slice does, where's the problem?
15:53<andythenorth>or array.pop etc
15:53<Ammler>well, we needed around 10 IS2 compiles until we found the solution :-)
15:53<Alberth>andythenorth: I always draw pictures to understand the operations
15:53<planetmaker>interesting, andythenorth
15:53<planetmaker>that's nothing I did touch, though
15:53<andythenorth>planetmaker: OS X 10.5.7
15:53<planetmaker>that's the midi interface...
15:53<andythenorth>let me see if trunk broke
15:54<Ammler>it is just bad, that we now need a exception for cargodist only
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15:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: pointers are something that allows heavy optimisations, but can be very dangerous if done incorrectly
15:58<andythenorth>planetmaker: looks like doomsday for my OS X compile :P
15:58<andythenorth>is this the day I stop using openttd?
15:59<Weeknie>I certainly hope not!
15:59<planetmaker>try --without-libtimidity?
15:59<planetmaker>or some other option to disable the music options
16:00<andythenorth>--without-libtimidity didn't solve it
16:00<andythenorth>where do I look for other options?
16:00<planetmaker>configure --help
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16:07<planetmaker>I can only assume so far that possibly r19814 broke it
16:07<planetmaker>you could - for a starter - revert that
16:08<planetmaker>that's not a solution but a workaround
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16:09<planetmaker>hm, interestingly qtmidi compiles for me
16:09<andythenorth>you have 10.6?
16:09<planetmaker>but still, it worked for you and there's no functional change really
16:10<andythenorth>how do I hg revert when I only have the svn revision number :|
16:10*andythenorth scratches head
16:10<planetmaker>it's 15175 in HG
16:11<Ammler>Zuu: I guess, you don't to make a exception for cd only, you could cut -$BRANCH from every version
16:11<planetmaker>hg log -k 'svn rXXXXX'
16:11<planetmaker>^ that will give you the proper hg revision
16:14<planetmaker>andythenorth: what's your compiler version?
16:14<planetmaker>gcc --version
16:14<andythenorth>pdq2s-macbook-3:openttd andy$ gcc
16:14<andythenorth>i686-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1: no input files
16:15<planetmaker>right. It's a compiler thing
16:15<planetmaker>4.0 doesn't compile it
16:15<planetmaker>4.2 does
16:18<andythenorth>what do I have to do?
16:18<planetmaker>add a ; to the end of line
16:19<planetmaker>that was forgotten and gcc 4.2 obviously cares shit about a forgotten ; there
16:20<planetmaker>actually not to the end of the line but to the end of the statement
16:20<planetmaker>But I think you know what I mean :-)
16:22<planetmaker>any dev currently here who cares to fix src/music/qtmidi.cpp:44 without me opening a bug report right now?
16:22<+glx>remember OSX is not supported?
16:23<planetmaker>yes, and?
16:23<+glx>feel free to open a bug report, or add it to the OSX bugs list
16:23<planetmaker>statements without terminating ; are not supported by any OS
16:23<planetmaker>it's not an OSX bug. It's a copy&paste bug
16:24<planetmaker>introduced in r19814
16:24<planetmaker>a typo
16:25<+glx>ha right
16:25<+glx>then we can fix that
16:25<planetmaker>but before we have here again a "not supported rant" ... I'll happily make bug reports for any typo separately
16:25<+glx>that's an easy to fix bug
16:26*andythenorth thinks "if it doesn't compile I can stop doing all this work...."
16:26<planetmaker>that's what I outlined above before I asked
16:26<+glx>kind of regression fail ;)
16:26<andythenorth>"....and have my weekends back" :P
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16:26<PeterT>Zuu: isn't this what you need to set up auto-updating for IS2 binaries?
16:28<+glx>planetmaker: enough ?
16:28<planetmaker>that's how my local diff looks like, yes
16:29<planetmaker>then gcc4.0 didn't complain anymore. Funnily gcc4.2 didn't bother
16:29<CIA-6>OpenTTD: glx * r19822 /trunk/src/music/qtmidi.cpp: -Fix (r19814): missing semicolon
16:29<planetmaker>thanks, glx :-)
16:29<planetmaker>andythenorth: ^
16:30<+glx>that's what happens when we can't compile ;)
16:30<planetmaker>yes, I know
16:30<Ammler>[22:26] <PeterT> Zuu: isn't this what you need to set up auto-updating for IS2 binaries? <-- what you think, how long that exists?
16:30<PeterT>planetmaker and andythenorth are your new bug testers
16:30<PeterT>Ammler: I didn't mean it like that
16:30<+glx>we'd prefer have maintainers instead
16:30*peter1138 boggles... a project that uses CVS
16:30<PeterT>What I should've said, Is this something you could use for ottdau?
16:31<Ammler>he does already
16:31<planetmaker>it was setup for him, I think, right?
16:32<planetmaker>like 2 years ago?
16:32<andythenorth>planetmaker: so how do I merge that change into your branch (or should I just do it manually?)
16:32<planetmaker>andythenorth: do it manually for now
16:32<PeterT>Those are IS2 and cargodist versions
16:33<planetmaker>it will be in the repo with the next trunk merge
16:33<PeterT>Not regular versions
16:33<Ammler>we added that tonight, so just be a bit patient please
16:33<PeterT>IS2 and cargodist auto-updating is not in OTTDAU
16:33<PeterT>Never mind.
16:33*andythenorth thought the diff could be applied, but it fails :P
16:34<andythenorth>hey ho
16:34<PeterT>just update?
16:34<fonsinchen>!dl win32
16:34-!-fonsinchen was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
16:35<PeterT>anyone know what supybot plugin does that?
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16:35<andythenorth>PeterT: I'm not trying to compile trunk
16:35<Zuu>PeterT: Huh? IS2 was added earlier tonight.
16:36<PeterT>Zuu: I see now :-D
16:36<Zuu>And worked fine back then when I tried.
16:36<PeterT>Sorry, I haven't used it in a while
16:36<PeterT>I'm just remebering what it had since I last used it
16:38<Ammler>works :-)
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16:41<@peter1138>buhhh cvs up doesn't appear to ... work
16:42<Zuu>Hmm, is '-' a special char in regular expressions?
16:42<Zuu>Eg will /-.*// work?
16:42<Zuu>Or do I need to enclose it with []?
16:43<fonsinchen>the cargodist server at ottdc is running again and binaries are available at
16:43<fonsinchen>Thanks again for building them.
16:44<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: thank the people who donate the money to allow us to have such a beast of a machine :)
16:44<TrueBrain>(still it is too small)
16:45<@peter1138>buhhh cvs failing again
16:45<TrueBrain>cvs? Does that still exist?
16:47<andythenorth>planetmaker: does your compile of the gui branch crash on start?
16:48<planetmaker>what's the repo version you use?
16:48<planetmaker>hg parent?
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16:49<Zuu>"Last Cargodist" should now work for OpenTTD Auto Update, unless you happen to be on the minor server which will shortly also be updated.
16:51<planetmaker>sounds ok
16:51<andythenorth>NOT REACHED triggered at line 139 of main_gui.cpp
16:52<planetmaker>by just starting it? Without clicking anywhere?
16:53<andythenorth>I reverted the repo earlier, let me delete and clone again to be sure
16:53<planetmaker>that's not how my line looks like
16:54<planetmaker>it's a trunk bug which was already fixed which you discovered
16:54<planetmaker>hg up -C
16:54<planetmaker>maybe it's needed :-)
16:54<planetmaker>I added two heads to the repo
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16:55<@Belugas>TONIGHT TONIGHT TONIGHT... HOOO Hooo...!
16:55<@Belugas>i'l sleep
16:55<@Belugas>night all
16:55<TrueBrain>night Belugas
16:55<@Belugas>ho.. Patric :D
16:55<@Belugas>good night friend
16:56<TrueBrain>sleep well :)
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17:16<andythenorth>planetmaker: successful compile, no assert :)
17:19<andythenorth>planetmaker: do you see drawing artefacts on tabs?
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17:21<Weeknie>Little question, what are all the things that you can't pass to a function dereferenced?
17:23<Weeknie>Erm, well, like arrays, you can't pass them to a function unless you use a pointer, right?
17:24*andythenorth thinks 'map edges' could be improved
17:24<@peter1138>C only has pass by value
17:24<andythenorth>planetmaker: we'll find a nice way to choose between height map / random seed...
17:25<planetmaker>random seed is also needed for height map
17:25<@peter1138>and the 'value' of an array is a pointer to its first element
17:25<@peter1138>(not strictly correct wording, but... i can't be arsed to look it up ;))
17:25<andythenorth>planetmaker: is it? I learnt some thing new :)
17:26<planetmaker>Pretty sure. Industry placement and alike
17:26<andythenorth>make sense
17:26<andythenorth>makes /s
17:26<Zuu>any new drawings?
17:28<andythenorth>from me? not tonight
17:29*andythenorth wonders. Often the words are better than the pictures. But some of the map gui might be better with pictures....
17:30<Weeknie>Lol, andy, you sound like you're writing a book this way:P
17:30<andythenorth>very flat / flat / hilly / mountainous being one example
17:30<andythenorth>is choosing the tree algorithm still relevant?
17:31*andythenorth doesn't even know the difference.
17:31<andythenorth>I just use 'improved' because it sounds best
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17:32*andythenorth reads wiki
17:33<andythenorth>"TREE ALGORITHM This is how the trees are aligned. Keep it where it is, or it wont look good, unless you don't want any trees, which is 'None'."
17:34<andythenorth>planetmaker ^ is the tree algorithm a choice players don't need?
17:35<planetmaker>none might be a viable option. So a keep
17:36<andythenorth>"Trees: Yes / No" ?
17:36*andythenorth does ottd have radio buttons?
17:36*andythenorth doesn't remember any
17:39*andythenorth contemplates a game with the original map generator, it looks kind of nice
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>there is a problem with trees, there are two different issues: the initial tree placement, and the tree growth during the game
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17:42<andythenorth>does map generator (original / terragenesis) need to be a choice in map gen screen?
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17:43<Weeknie>I would say no
17:43<Weeknie>I don't think any average openTTD player will notice, will he/she?
17:43<Weeknie>notice as in notice the difference between the 2 generators
17:43<ccfreak2k>andythenorth, it seems the closest analog to radio buttons in OpenTTD are left/right buttons.
17:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: "Land generator" could move to advanced options?
17:44<planetmaker>andythenorth: no
17:44<planetmaker>it makes a big difference. And is directly a map option
17:44<planetmaker>I wouldn't move anything away from there
17:44<andythenorth>for each item shall I suggest moving and you answer "no" ? :P
17:45<andythenorth>ok well that saves time then :)
17:45<Weeknie>He said yes, quick, perhaps you can smuggle one in!
17:45<Weeknie>Damn too late
17:45<Weeknie>Ok, carry on
17:45<andythenorth>it's quite a lot of....stuff in that dialog
17:46<andythenorth>and it got to be more recently
17:46<andythenorth>variety distribution + 5 buttons for map edges
17:46<Weeknie>That variety distribution, what does it do
17:46<Weeknie>Make sure things are spread out?
17:46<andythenorth>adds variety....
17:47<Weeknie>Sorry I asked lol:P
17:47<andythenorth>depending on other settings it will cluster mountains, add noise to sea shores etc.
17:47<Weeknie>Ah right
17:47<andythenorth>it can interact a bit unpredictably with 'Terrain type' and 'Smoothness'
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17:48<planetmaker>It gives nice results with "very large" and not too lengthy maps
17:48<planetmaker>and mountainous
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17:51*andythenorth wants to take some options out the back and shoot them
17:51<andythenorth>however, if that's not permitted, perhaps it's time for bed :)
17:56<Zuu>Bed sounds like a good idea either way. :-)
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17:57<planetmaker>hm, yes
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>last time i checked, results were "unpleasant" with very non-square maps (2:1 ratio seemed fine, but 4:1 not)
18:04<planetmaker>maybe it should compensate for that somehow...
18:04<planetmaker>the 2:1 stretch can actually look nice as it gives elongated mountain ranges
18:05<planetmaker>anyway... good night
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20:22<|Hijacker|>hi! a friend of mine and me are having trouble with a trainstation... next to that station is a glas and a steel production. we supply coal to that trainstation of these two factories, but unfortunately the glas factory sucks up ALL the delivered coal and the steel factory gets none
20:22<|Hijacker|>is there any way to fix this?
20:23<PeterT>No, but you can try to seperate the stations
20:24<PeterT>so that one station's catchment is only near one factory
20:24<|Hijacker|>damn, ok i already suspected this
20:24<PeterT>and vice versa
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20:24<|Hijacker|>that's the mate i was talking about ^^
20:25<z0rn>i blame |Hijacker|
20:25<z0rn>i wont fix ur mess this time
20:25<|Hijacker|>it was YOUR idea to build that second factory next to the glass one!
20:25<|Hijacker|>i wanted to build it a few miles upwards :p
20:25<PeterT><PeterT> No, but you can try to seperate the stations
20:25<PeterT><PeterT> so that one station's catchment is only near one factory
20:25<PeterT>z0rn: ^
20:25<z0rn>i already feared that would be the possibility
20:26<z0rn>|Hijacker|: go and start building
20:26<|Hijacker|>z0rn: meh
20:26<|Hijacker|>z0rn: it's 2:30
20:26<z0rn>i dont care!!!!!!!!
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20:26<|Hijacker|>I'll build a blanket fortress ^^
20:27<z0rn>we wont stop before the coal reaches the steal-fac
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20:37<z0rn>thx & gn8
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---Logclosed Sat May 15 00:00:38 2010