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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-05-16

---Logopened Sun May 16 00:00:07 2010
---Daychanged Sun May 16 2010
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00:58<z-MaTRiX>sálálá in the morning
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02:22*Alberth gets really tired of all those 'can someone compile this patch for me?' requests
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02:45<andythenorth>hi hi
02:45<Yexo>good morning
02:50*andythenorth wonders where to get the dos pallete :P
02:51<andythenorth>found one
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03:37<Terkhen>good morning
03:37<Alberth>good morning Terkhen
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03:40<switchgirl>hoi Yexo
03:41<switchgirl>goode en slappe?
03:41<switchgirl>aka didyou sleep well
03:41<planetmaker>good morning
03:42<switchgirl>i just made a coal train 100 carrages long
03:42<switchgirl>it's eppic
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03:47<Hyronymus>morning all
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03:51*planetmaker wonders why adding a "NWidget(NWID_SPACER), SetMinimalSize(0, 4)," crashes the window...
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03:52<Yexo>did you add that within a horizontal container?
03:52<planetmaker>I added it withing a WWT_TAB - which is a re-coloured WWT_INSET
03:53<planetmaker>it's not the first nor the last within that container
03:55<planetmaker>But somewhere further levels up in the nesting there's also a WWT_HORIZONTAL
03:56<Yexo>it really was just a stab in the dark, even adding it in a horizontal container shouldn't be a problem
03:57<planetmaker>I fear I can't provide a small patch to show it...
03:58<planetmaker>The new game window got kinda big ;-)
03:58<Alberth>there is something else wrong, I think
03:58<Alberth>you assume resizing capabilities?
03:59<Alberth>then you need SetResize() there as well
03:59<planetmaker>Hm... no problem, when I also add SetResize(1, 1)
03:59<planetmaker>so, yes, I assume that, I guess
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04:02<Alberth>lots of code use "click_pos / this->resize.step_height" to compute a line in a panel/matrix (ie it uses the vertical resize step of the window). If you miss a resize capability somewhere however, the window cannot resize, and this->resize.step_height == 0 => crash when clicking
04:03<Alberth>of course the core dump tells you exactly where it breaks :)
04:03<planetmaker>well, actually even upon call of the window, but I guess that's the same
04:03<planetmaker> Message: Assertion failed at line 807 of /Users/ingo/ottd/gui/src/widgets/../window_gui.h: nwid != NULL
04:03<planetmaker>which is peculiar
04:03<planetmaker>as it hints that a widget is used but not defined
04:04<Alberth>or has the wrong class
04:04<planetmaker>ah, yes, that again :-)
04:04<Alberth>you only use GetWidget<>() after finishing initialization?
04:05<Alberth>hmm, that is not the problem here, most likely.
04:05<planetmaker>it's only used in OnPaint()
04:05<Alberth>you could print the number getting retrieved, and check whether you use that widget consistently
04:05<Alberth>OnPaint() should be fine
04:06<Alberth>although you should have exactly one line in OnPaint() :p
04:06<planetmaker>how do you mean?
04:07<Alberth>this->DrawWidgets(); should be in OnPaint(), which walks through the tree to render the widgets.
04:07<Alberth>virtual void DrawWidget(const Rect &r, int widget) const gets called then for custom renderings
04:08<planetmaker>The rest should be in OnClick and others
04:08<planetmaker>Also like SetWidgetLoweredState and alike?
04:08<planetmaker>or Disabled which depend upon certain values?
04:09<Alberth>usually these values change under your control, so you can update the widgets when the values change
04:09<planetmaker>Well, upon initialization they're read from the config
04:09<Alberth>often such widget update code is moved to OnInvalidateData()
04:10<Alberth>this->OnInvalidateData() in the constructor ?
04:11<planetmaker>under which conditions is that proc called?
04:11<Alberth>point is that you are wasting CPU time by setting widget states with every paint if they never change without you knowing
04:11<planetmaker>or do I have to call it manually in the OnClick()
04:11<Alberth>when you call the method :)
04:11<planetmaker>Then it's useful to use that
04:11<planetmaker>Currently the NewGame window doesn't
04:12<Alberth>OnInvalidateData is also accessible from outside by some Invalidate function, useful for inter-window communication
04:13<Alberth>if you don't want that, make your own Update method
04:14<planetmaker>Sounds useful :-)
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04:15<planetmaker>But I still need a boolean or so for the SaveLoadDialogue
04:16<planetmaker>Or some feedback whether a valid filename was selected :-)
04:17<andythenorth>Terkhen: would you mind pulling FIRS and telling me if any of the new mini-map industry colours cause you problems?
04:23<Terkhen>andythenorth: not on dark green
04:24<Alberth>planetmaker: extend the SaveLoadDialogue (misc_gui.cpp, around lines 1901 and 1908) with calls to your window with void InvalidateWindowData(WindowClass cls, WindowNumber number, int data) function.
04:25<andythenorth>Terkhen: thanks
04:25<Alberth>however, I don't know exactly where that dialogue is used, so better check its usage first
04:25<planetmaker>hm, sounds useful
04:27<planetmaker>but I'm not quite sure yet what data are accessible from the outside... The file name seems to be handled by some obscure mechanism currently
04:27<Terkhen>andythenorth: the steel mill and the paper mill seem to have the same colour
04:27<Alberth>I can also imagine that the saveload dialogue gets a pointer to some shared data in the parent instead of the global _file_to_saveload :)
04:27<planetmaker>but currently there's no need to distinguish whether one was selected or not either...
04:27<Terkhen>besides that I think they are fine
04:27<planetmaker>Alberth: yes, that variable, exactly
04:27<andythenorth>I'm trying to stick to original map colours for original industries
04:27<andythenorth>but I'm sure there's an exception here
04:28<planetmaker>it writes to it
04:28<planetmaker>the dialogue has only a mode as parameter which tells it what to save/load
04:29<Alberth>so somewhere that data is read and initialized, near those points you should be able to find how the communication is done
04:29<Alberth>I would not be surprised if your window does not fit in the current use.
04:31<planetmaker>well... yes and no
04:31<planetmaker>But it was not quite designed to be used like that is my feeling
04:33<planetmaker>I'll have to dive in that more :-)
04:33<Alberth>the whole system is pretty much state-less with respect to the gui, that is, the system does not care whether a window happens to be open or not. Only when the user does something interesting, it gets an event.
04:34<planetmaker>which makes kinda sense
04:34<Alberth>that makes windows quite independent of each other, and of the simulation
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04:35<planetmaker>hm... but that means I could get the event "file selected"
04:35<planetmaker>or use the handling of that event in order to cross-communicate this event to the newgame window
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04:36<Alberth>well, apparently, the event is currently communicated by writing in some location.
04:36<Alberth>I have no idea how it is picked up by the simulation.
04:40<Alberth>ARGH why can you not initialize a static const data member in a class by simple assignment as in "static const int v = 3;"
04:42<@peter1138>because it has to be annoying
04:43<Alberth>it's working
04:43<@peter1138>assigning it outside the class is ... obvious, right?
04:43<@peter1138>must've made sense to somebody
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04:50<Alberth>Annotated C++ reference manual: "..The problem is that class declarations typically appear in header files, so a declaration like the one above will be seen by a compiler many times. ... Especially when dealing with general initializers, it is important that there is exactly one definition of an object in the program Allowing examples like the ones above would complicate separate compilation."
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05:30<Terkhen>hi Wolf01
05:31<Weeknie>HI Wolf01
05:31<Weeknie>Everybody, make Wolf01 feel special, say hi to him!:D
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08:08<Wasila>Anyone here
08:09*Alberth is not here
08:09<Wasila>Neither is Wasila
08:09<Wasila>Neither is /me
08:09<Wasila>What's OwenS's username on the forums?
08:09<Wasila>Ah good
08:09<Wasila>you're here
08:09<Wasila>I contacted Jupix
08:09<Wasila>and GeekToo
08:10<Wasila>about 32bpp compatibility
08:10<Wasila>" So long as I have any pull, I will never allow separate tars for EZ and SZ. The player experience is just too dismal if we go that way again. I will look at the autocompiler script today and hopefully tomorrow's builds will be compiling without suffixes for z2 sprites. Jupix"
08:10<OwenS>Excelent :)
08:10<Wasila>See, we listen :)
08:11<OwenS>We will no longer get people wandering in here every few days wondering why their 32-bpp sprites don't work
08:11<Wasila>Glad to hear it
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08:11<Wasila>It hasn't been done yet though
08:11<Wasila>Let's hope so
08:11<Wasila>Owen, what packs do people tend to use? The automated one or the one on the forums?
08:12<OwenS>Wasila: I don't know. I just know that it doesn't work and they come here confused
08:14<Alberth>Wasila: look at the pack threads to see how many people write posts
08:15<Wasila>complaining about incompatibility?
08:16<Alberth>(02:14:04 PM) Wasila: Owen, what packs do people tend to use? <-- I was trying to answer this question
08:16*andythenorth blew up the game
08:16*andythenorth mehs at 32bpp
08:16<Wasila>Oh right
08:16<Wasila>I think it would be the manual one
08:16<Wasila>since it's so much smaller
08:17<Wasila>andythenorth! I'm insulted!
08:17<Wasila>32bpp is epic!
08:17<Wasila>I mean bigger
08:17<Wasila>It has a lot more files
08:17<Xaroth>32bpp != oldskool
08:17<Wasila>Just download it and check it out
08:17<Wasila>Or see the pictures
08:17<planetmaker>Wasila, you err with the file and the sprite count
08:17<Wasila>How so
08:18<planetmaker>I'd bet there's WAY less 32bpp sprites than 8bpp
08:18<Wasila>What do you mean?
08:18<planetmaker>Even if you only count base sprites and dismiss newgrfs
08:18<Wasila>I'm saying that the pack on the forums is larger than Jupix's automated one
08:18<Wasila>They're both 32bpp
08:18<planetmaker>yes, and most probable the forum one is bound to fail
08:19<Wasila>It's a temporary solution
08:19<Wasila>And if we can get the automated one to be compatible with trunk
08:19<Wasila>Then all the more so
08:19<Wasila>We were discussing how to make the 32bpp regular zoom graphics compatible
08:19<Wasila>the z2 sprites in the repository
08:20<Wasila>so that you can use them with trunk
08:20<planetmaker>ah. finally :-)
08:20<Wasila>See! All you had to do was ask :P
08:23<planetmaker><Wasila> 32bpp is epic!
08:23<planetmaker><Wasila> I mean bigger <-- and my initial statement referred to that - and holds still true
08:23*OwenS has a heisenbug :(
08:23<Wasila>When I said 'I mean bigger;
08:23<PeterT><Wasila> Anyone here <--
08:23<PeterT>@topic get -1
08:23<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Don't ask to ask, just ask
08:24<Wasila>I was referring to when I had said the manual pack was smaller
08:24<Wasila>I meant bigger
08:24<planetmaker>that context was not quite clear then
08:24<planetmaker>anyway, it's sorted
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08:27<Wasila>planetmaker: didn't you help organise the OpenGFX project>
08:27<planetmaker>I still do
08:28<Wasila>Are the graphics still being improved?
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08:29<planetmaker>I just release the very same thing every now and then with an up'ed version number
08:30<Wasila>We could use a hand over at 32bpp
08:30<Ammler>pm is a release junkie
08:30<planetmaker>I don't have time for that, Wasila
08:30<planetmaker>Or I'd need to make clones
08:30<Wasila>Just wondering
08:30<Wasila>That'd be a good idea!
08:31<Ammler>jupix does a good job there, imo
08:31<Wasila>I suppose the organisational area is not where we're lacking
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08:31<Wasila>But we could do with a more inspiring figure
08:31<planetmaker>become one ;-)
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08:32<Wasila>Was that what you were doing?
08:32<Wasila>Forcing the artists to get on with it
08:32<Sacro>switchgirl: ctrl+alt+c iirc
08:32<planetmaker>but I think indeed that maquinista and Jupix are doing a decent job
08:32<planetmaker>You cannot force anyone
08:32<planetmaker>It won't work
08:33<planetmaker>What you can do is be quick with coding.
08:33<planetmaker>Showing what you coded
08:33<planetmaker>Making it decently available
08:33<andythenorth>it's funny, in 8bpp newgrf-land, 'organisers' outnumber 'artists' by about 10:1....
08:33<andythenorth>....and artists:coders is also about 10:1
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08:33<Wasila>Yet the work gets done
08:33<andythenorth> organisers:coders is about 100:1 :P
08:34<planetmaker>andythenorth, the latter number is certainly right. The first... yeah... 1:1 is also already a lot :-)
08:34<Wasila>Something wrong there :P
08:34<Wasila>I don't think coding is a real problem
08:34<planetmaker>as there are little organizers needed ;-)
08:34<Wasila>We've got most of the work coded already
08:34<planetmaker>then why does nearly no 32bpp work with trunk? ;-)
08:35<Wasila>Because of the _z2 taggedo n at thend
08:35<Wasila>doesn't work with trunk
08:35<Wasila>that's something being dealt with
08:35<Ammler>or at least support both
08:35<Wasila>Hopefully the automated build will be compatible as of tonight
08:35<Wasila>That's up to Jupix
08:35<Wasila>Perhaps if it was compatible more artists would be willing to help out
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08:36<planetmaker>I won't install the patch just to look at graphics ingame
08:36<Wasila>I hope so
08:37<Wasila>That's the automated build
08:37<Wasila>It should come out around six tonight GMT
08:37<Wasila>that should be compatible
08:38<planetmaker>When it works, when it's available: make a posting in tt-forums in the appropriate thread. Show two screenies and link directly the download
08:38<planetmaker>that helps :-)
08:39*andythenorth browses 32bpp forum
08:40<Wasila>Will do
08:40<Wasila>Maybe we should upload it to the Automated Content System too
08:40<Wasila>It might be too large
08:40<andythenorth>32bpp is cute....especially when the models are more toylike
08:40<andythenorth>it lacks a certain nostalgia for me though :)
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08:41<Wasila>Well you can always go back
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08:41<Wasila>The problem is that there are no standards to
08:41<Wasila>So it's not really a 'set' yet
08:42<andythenorth>the best sets have one or two people with a vision of what they want...
08:42<Wasila>Unfortunately I don't know the numbers
08:42<Wasila>I mean, I don't know the details of how sprites work
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08:44<Wasila>Anyway, I'm off
08:45<planetmaker>Wasila, most importantly it doesn't fit any bananas category
08:45<Wasila>Base sets?
08:45<planetmaker>it's not a base set
08:45<Wasila>Well, it's close
08:45<Weeknie>Yexo, you're here?
08:45<andythenorth>@seen Yexo
08:45<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 49 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Yexo> it really was just a stab in the dark, even adding it in a horizontal container shouldn't be a problem
08:45<Yexo>Weeknie: yes
08:45<planetmaker>Weeknie, ask. Don't ask if someone's here... it's annoying
08:46<Yexo>but what planetmaker says, if you want to ask me something just be sure to highlight me and I'll answer when i see it
08:46<Wasila>Anyway, byee
08:46<andythenorth>if you can auto-complete the nick, they're probably here....
08:46<Weeknie>Hmm ok
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08:46<Weeknie>Sorry for that then
08:46<+glx>unless he's not in the list :)
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08:46<Weeknie>glx, I figured that much, thank you:p
08:46<planetmaker>but that's obvious then ;-)
08:46<andythenorth>what was the question?
08:47<planetmaker>and people who're here will read it later, if you highlight the line with the question
08:47<planetmaker>andythenorth, "how can I ask a question" :-P
08:47<Weeknie>Anyway, Yexo, I've been looking at the example nfo in, but tbh, I don't understand any of it
08:47<Weeknie>I mean, is this how I should be writing it or what am I missing here?
08:48<Yexo>I suggest you try some other nfo first, a small vehicle grf or something like that
08:48<Zuu>Weeknie: You probably need to get some basic NewGRF undestanding first.
08:48<Yexo>airport nfo makes very heavy use of advanced varaction2, which is one of the hardest parts of nfo to understand
08:48<planetmaker>Basic newgrf understanding will help indeed much
08:49<Weeknie>Hmm ok
08:49<Weeknie>But tbh, form what I'm seeing here (reading the comments), it doesn't look like I'll be able to do what I want to with the statemachine:P
08:49<Weeknie>Oh well, let's start with the other stuff first
08:50<Yexo>what do you want to do with the statemachine?
08:50<Weeknie>Erm, well
08:50<Weeknie>I described it in my own topic, planetmaker reacted to that, lemme get the link
08:51<Weeknie>, my 2nd post
08:53<Yexo>it's a fair bit of work, but it's possible to implement that
08:53<Weeknie>I know it probs would be
08:53<Weeknie>But would it be possible with one of those nfo's?
08:54<Yexo>yes, that is what I ment
08:54<Weeknie>Hmm well
08:56<Weeknie>I guess I'll start by reading up on those nfo's
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09:13<Jupix>what's the correct (legacy) naming scheme for z2 32bpp mask sprites? xxxxm.png?
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09:28<Weeknie>grf wizard works just as well for openTTD as it does for TTDPatch right?
09:29<Ammler>why should you use grf wizard for openttd?
09:29<Alberth>the NewGRF format is the same for both programs, yes
09:29<Weeknie>Ammler, what else would I use
09:29<Ammler>I would use it for (new)grfs
09:30<Weeknie>Oh sigh, not now please...
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09:30<Weeknie>I'm trying to understand this stuff, don't need people whining about my grammer right now:P
09:31<Weeknie>Or was your question geniune?:P
09:31<Ammler>yes, it was serious, sorry.
09:31<Weeknie>Lol, sorry here too;)
09:31<__ln__>Weeknie: *grammar
09:32<Weeknie>__ln__ shut up:P
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09:48<Weeknie>When GRFWizard asks for the TTD path, I should just link it to the root folder of OpenTTD right?
09:50<planetmaker>You might try NML instead of plain NFO or GRFWizard
09:51<planetmaker>more versatile than GRFWizard and better readable than plain NFO
09:51<Weeknie>NML is the full name?
09:52<planetmaker>it could be said to stand for nfo meta language.
09:52<Weeknie>Hmm right
09:52<planetmaker>But... as it meanwhile can write grf directly it's a bit obsolete
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09:52<Ammler>(the name)
09:53<planetmaker>yes, the name only :-)
09:53<planetmaker> is a - granted - simple example of how it works
09:53<Mazur>Ah. Important distinction.
09:53<Ammler>nobody here knows GRFWizard, I would guess...
09:54<Ammler>it sounds like a prenewgrf tool
09:54<planetmaker>Also: NML allows to use nice units - which makes things easy with the action0
09:54*Mazur knows Gandalf. Merlin. Such wizards.
09:55<planetmaker>Weeknie, if you want to start new with writing NewGRF it's something I'd honestly recommend to look at
09:55<planetmaker>It has the biggest potential :-)
09:55<Weeknie>So I should look at NML
09:55<planetmaker>And is the only newgrf programme which really is actively maintained by more than a half person
09:56<Weeknie>I can se that lol
09:56<Weeknie>Has revisions from yesterday ^_^
09:56<planetmaker>it's not old.
09:56<planetmaker>it currently gets revisions very frequently. It's not even finished
09:56<planetmaker>It even might require you from time to time to change some things as NML itself changes
09:57<planetmaker>But programming in it goes quite smoothly :-)
09:57<Weeknie>Well I like the fact that it's python
09:57<Weeknie>Atleast I can run that stuff
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09:58<Weeknie>Though 1 problem, how do I get the files?
09:59<planetmaker>easiest is via mercurial checkout
09:59<planetmaker>That makes it easy to update it, too
09:59<Weeknie>Lol, anoter version management system
09:59<planetmaker>mercurial is a python-based version control system
09:59<planetmaker>yet another?
09:59<Weeknie>Yeah, had git installed for a previous open source project
10:00<Weeknie>Subversion for openTTD itself
10:00<Weeknie>And now Mercurial for NML:P
10:00<ashb>gotta catch them all
10:00<planetmaker>use also mercurial for OpenTTD
10:00<Weeknie>Why that?
10:00<planetmaker>it's actually recommended unless you're core dev :-)
10:00<planetmaker>you then have the full history locally
10:00<planetmaker>and it's easier on some things like maintaining patch queues and alike
10:01<planetmaker>you have all OpenTTD revisions within that repository.
10:01<Weeknie>Well never heard of that stuff before lol
10:01<planetmaker>svn needs online connection in order to change the checked out version
10:01<planetmaker>the difference between a centralized CVS and a distributed one
10:02<Rubidium>planetmaker: mercurial too if you want to update, which is what 99% of the users only do
10:02<planetmaker> <--- the complex stuff in NML :-)
10:02<planetmaker>Rubidium, yes, of course it needs to be online for an update.
10:02<Rubidium>so why download 5 years of history in 99% of the cases if you're not going to use it?
10:03<planetmaker>But it's helpful if you play around with versions :-) Or clone locally in order to different things in different checkouts
10:03<Zuu>hmm, does NML needs to be updated maually by someone when the nfo spec changes?
10:03<planetmaker>Zuu, hu?
10:04<Zuu>Eg. do you or someone else who work on NML need to update it when a new property etc. is added to the nfo spec?
10:04<planetmaker>it will need updating, too
10:04<Yexo>yes, there is no way around that (at least not for action0 properties)
10:04<Yexo>for new varaction2 variables no update is needed
10:05<SpComb>tsk, NML is missing the testcases :(
10:05<planetmaker>SpComb, for now.
10:06<planetmaker>but test cases are missing for every grf producing programme
10:06<andythenorth>FIRS question....."Lumber Treatment Plant"...might need a better name....
10:06<planetmaker>but it's one of the items to be added, SpComb : a test suit to check for sanity of the output
10:06<andythenorth>it treats lumber with creosote and other chemicals, and produces engineering structures from timber
10:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ^ you normally have an opinion on FIRS industries :)
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>how about "processing"?
10:07<andythenorth>I thought of "Timber Engineering", but it's nice to make it obvious that it uses Lumber cargo
10:07<andythenorth>"Lumber Processor"?
10:07<Weeknie>Lumber processing plant
10:07<Weeknie>Sounds good to me
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure what it does...
10:08<Weeknie>Planetmaker, what's the repo url for NML?
10:08<Weeknie>Can't seem to find it on the site
10:08<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's a slightly made up industry to provide another source of ENSP
10:09<Alberth>andythenorth: it does more than a lumber mill?
10:10<SpComb>the constants like CC_PASSENGERS or whatever are defined inside the parser?
10:10<Ammler>download of nml tip:
10:10<Weeknie>Thank you Ammler;)
10:10<andythenorth>here we go:
10:11<andythenorth>"Southern Tie and Timber Treating"
10:11<planetmaker>or hg clone
10:11<andythenorth>or "International Creosote & Construction Co"
10:11<planetmaker>SpComb, yes, they are
10:11<planetmaker>cargo classes are part of the nfo specification
10:11<planetmaker>cargo short names are not
10:12*SpComb wonders if they could be externalized to library-style data files
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: a lumber mill processes wood into lumber
10:12<SpComb>also missing the 'include' functionaliy, as far as I can see :)
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: this industry processes lumber into "engineering supplies" or so i understood
10:13<andythenorth>could just be "Lumber Yard"
10:13<andythenorth>That will probably make it obvious enough
10:14<SpComb>nor any namespacing
10:14<Weeknie>planetmaker, what's the entry point for the whole nml app, or is there some page on how to use it?
10:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: does that work for you? I'm about to change it in about 5 places.... :)
10:14<Weeknie>Oh wait
10:14<Weeknie>nvm..., sorry:P
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that sounds alright
10:14*andythenorth goes to the code
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you use pnfo or similar, you can make it a #define and have it changable in one place ;)
10:15<andythenorth>as the code won't come to me :P
10:15<andythenorth>it is
10:15<Alberth>I'd rather make some goods out of it, I think :p
10:15<andythenorth>but there is also a website, a local filesystem etc....
10:16<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19826 /trunk/src/lang/italian.txt: -Add: extra gender to Italian
10:16<andythenorth>Alberth: you can use the Furniture Factory in that case. However goods are currently pointless (apart from getting paid) :P
10:16<Alberth>oh, getting money is not the objective of the game? :p
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>goods need a town-feedback-mechanism, which is outside the scope of a newgrf
10:17<andythenorth>for now....
10:18<andythenorth>town growth/shrink cargos (both collect and deliver) should be exposed to newgrf
10:18<planetmaker>Weeknie, it works command line
10:18<planetmaker>Look at ogfxplus on how I call it there in the Makefile
10:18<Weeknie>erm, what do you mean?
10:18<planetmaker>but nml has a command line help, too
10:19<planetmaker>it has no GUI
10:19<Weeknie>That I got
10:19<Weeknie>But what do you mean with the 2nd thing you said?
10:20<Weeknie>I should just run build and then install?
10:20<Zuu>Have you read the wiki?
10:20<Weeknie>I'm looking at it right now
10:20<Weeknie>all it sais is that I need to install ply
10:20<Weeknie>And that's about it
10:23<Zuu>"To start, just run ('python')"
10:23<Weeknie>Yeah, there's no
10:24<Weeknie>why isn't htat file called nml2nfo?
10:24<planetmaker>you'll need ply and PIL modules
10:24<Zuu>btw, how do you install ply. Shall I run as administrator in windows or can I just put the files in the ply dir in the nml checkout dir? (I'm not a python coder)
10:25<Weeknie>run build and then install
10:25<Weeknie>That'll put the stuff where it needs to go
10:25<Weeknie>Atleast that's what I figure
10:25<planetmaker>you might want to do the install as admin
10:25<Zuu>indeed, without admin rights it won't be able to put the files in the phyton dir in Program Files.
10:26<Weeknie>It can over here
10:26<Weeknie>But I disabled UAC
10:26<Weeknie>Nor is my python dir in program files, but that's details
10:26<Weeknie>Oh good, I already have PIL
10:28<Alberth>Zuu: just copying the files should work
10:28<Weeknie>planetmaker, I don't think it'll hurt when I change nml2nfo to right?
10:29<planetmaker>it does
10:29<Alberth>Zuu: I am not even sure ply has an official way of installing :)
10:29<planetmaker>it's a shell script, not a python script
10:30<Weeknie>erm, planetmaker
10:30<Weeknie>Only the first line isn't python
10:30<Weeknie>The rest is python
10:30<planetmaker>Alberth, Zuu in my case I just installed it by means of my packet managers
10:30*andythenorth ponders writing advanced varaction 2 so that dates, speeds etc can be expressed in sane numbers, not fractions or multiples
10:30<Weeknie>the first line is to indicate this should be executed with python
10:31<planetmaker>Weeknie, yes.
10:31<Alberth>planetmaker: much better to let a package manager do it :)
10:31*andythenorth rediscovers date escapes
10:31<planetmaker>Which makes it a shell script and which is the whole sense of it.
10:31<Weeknie>Yeah right, the problem is windows doesn't understand it
10:31<Weeknie>NOr dues /usr/bin/env exist under windows
10:31<Zuu>hmm, let see if cygwin can handle this for me
10:31<Weeknie>So I'll change it to py and remove the first line
10:32<Weeknie>I don't se how that should hurt anything?
10:32<planetmaker>Zuu, it works afaik.
10:32<Alberth>Weeknie: the first line starts with #, so it is a comment for Python
10:32<planetmaker>Weeknie, I don't know
10:32<Weeknie>Alberth, that's right, forgot about that;)
10:32<Zuu>cygwin does not seem to have ply.
10:32<planetmaker>well. not by default
10:32<Alberth>as long as you don't want to run the script as a shell script, it should work
10:33<Weeknie>anyway, my parser isn't complaining, so I'll leave it like this
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10:33<Zuu>Weeknie: In windows I usually have the first line as "#!ruby" in my ruby scripts and have ruby.exe in PATH, similar should work also for phyton.
10:34<Weeknie>And what's the file name
10:34<Weeknie>As long as it doesn't have an extension, my windows won't execute it
10:35<Weeknie>Oh well w/e, it's working and I'm keeping it this way:p
10:36<Weeknie>But then
10:36<Weeknie>erm, right
10:36<Alberth>Zuu: is that line used in windows? I thought it was just the extension.
10:37<Weeknie>I still need grf wizard and such, don't I planetmaker?
10:37<Zuu>well, I need it when I run my ruby files from bash eg ./some_file.rb
10:38<Weeknie>That's from bash
10:38<Zuu>which is maybe not particulary standard Windows, but possible if you have bash in Windows.
10:38<Weeknie>Not the windows cammandline
10:38<SpComb>or just `ruby somefile.rb`
10:39<Weeknie>even works here
10:39<Alberth>Oh, you use bash with windows. Yeah, then the line could be relevant.
10:39<Weeknie>Just associate the .py files with the pythong parser
10:39<Zuu>"" won't work in bash, but in windows cli.
10:39<Zuu>but it is all details...
10:40<Weeknie>Now it works and I'm happy
10:40<Alberth>Zuu: with Linux, #! is a kernel thing, not a shell thing :)
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10:47<planetmaker><Weeknie> I still need grf wizard and such, don't I planetmaker? <-- you don't
10:47<Weeknie>So how do I do thinkgs like decode grf's, and combine nfo's and gcx (or those graphics things anyway) to grf's?
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10:49<planetmaker>run NML on the source and you'll get a grf
10:49<planetmaker>it can't de-code, though
10:49<planetmaker>but that's something grfwizard can't do either. Or can it?
10:50<planetmaker>besides it's never been fun to read de-coded NFO
10:50<planetmaker>better get the sources
10:50<Weeknie>grfwizard can decode
10:50<Weeknie>but ok*
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10:58<Weeknie>planetmaker, how do you generate a grf with NML? You said "run it on the source", but what do you mean by that/
11:01<planetmaker>you never worked with any command line programme and only clicky-colourfully, eh?
11:02<planetmaker>nml2nfo myNMLfile.nml
11:02<andythenorth>anyone here who doesn't know what a pit prop is?
11:02<Weeknie>Lol, I have used that
11:02*planetmaker rises hand @ andythenorth
11:02*Alberth raises hand
11:02*Weeknie too
11:02<andythenorth>what about a fence post?
11:02<Weeknie>Not sure about htat one:P
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11:02<Weeknie>It's a pole that's part of a fence right?
11:02<Alberth>I have heard of that one :)
11:03<Weeknie>Then I have heard of it too
11:03<Weeknie>Hi wasila
11:04<Wasila>How's it going?
11:04<Weeknie>I'm trying to learn newgrf stuff, but planetmaker seems to be getting enough of me:P (sorry for that)
11:04<Weeknie>So I'll just go quiet and start reading
11:06<andythenorth>how's this....
11:06<andythenorth>"Lumber Yard - Produces items such as fence posts, poles and beams"
11:06<Wasila>Is this for the wiki
11:06-!-Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:06<Alberth>goods :p
11:06<planetmaker>sounds fine, andythenorth
11:07<andythenorth>Wasila: it's in game
11:07<andythenorth>in the industry window(s)
11:07<Wasila>Sounds good
11:07<andythenorth>Alberth: has a goods fixation
11:07<Wasila>How about 'produces wood-related goods' :P
11:07<Alberth>a nice catch-all cargo :p
11:07<andythenorth>confusing because Wood is a cargo....but this industry neither accepts nor produces it :)
11:08<Wasila>Accepts wood, produces goods, no?
11:08<Alberth>Wasila: no, no
11:08<andythenorth>accepts lumber and chemicals, produces engineering supplies :)
11:08<Wasila>Oh this is for FIRS
11:08<Wasila>So what does wood do?
11:08<andythenorth>wood is wood
11:08<Wasila>if that's a good too?
11:08<Wasila>I mean, what industries use it?
11:08<andythenorth>wood comes from forests
11:08<andythenorth>forest -> paper mill
11:09<andythenorth>forest -> lumber mill
11:09<Alberth>aka 'chopped trees' :)
11:09<Wasila>That's why I don't use FIRS xD
11:09<andythenorth>confusingly, depending on what continent you are on, wood, timber and lumber all mean different things :)
11:09<Wasila>Switching to another climate is confusing enough for me!
11:09<Wasila>Got to go
11:09<andythenorth>Wasila: you can be a tester for "FIRS Basic" when it's ready
11:09<Wasila>PM me
11:10<Wasila>How long will it take to complete?
11:10<Wasila>Do you know?
11:10<Alberth>hopefully less than infinitely
11:11<andythenorth>depends on the type of infinity, and whether you apply Zeno's Paradox to it
11:11<Alberth>I'll leave that up to you :)
11:12<Alberth>but Zeno's paradox is a bit difficult if the smallest unit is a byte, isn't it?
11:12<andythenorth>otherwise I'd never get anything done :P
11:12<Wasila>Paradoxes make my head heart
11:13<andythenorth>I'd be dividing the work into infinitely many steps
11:13<Wasila>I better pull out before you explode the time-space continuum or something like that by mistake
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11:14<andythenorth>Sometimes FIRS does seem like a black hole of time....
11:14<andythenorth>my time
11:15<Alberth>it probably is, to some extent, you can endlessly change and optimize it. Not to mention do pixel improvements.
11:15<andythenorth>Terkhen: did you see the discussion about Lumber Yard? Got a cargo chains design question....
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11:16<Alberth>he didn't react to my highlight an hour ago, so it may take some time before he responds
11:16<Weeknie>Does anyone have any sources of for instance a vehicle?
11:16<andythenorth>Weeknie: in nml or nfo?
11:17<planetmaker>Weeknie, I pointed you already at ogfxplus as a simple example
11:17<Weeknie>oh sorry planetmaker, missed that then I think
11:18<planetmaker>same urls as nml - but nml replaced by ogfxplus
11:18<Weeknie>I see yeah
11:18<planetmaker>if you need NFO you might checkout the logic engine somewhere found on that site, too
11:19<Weeknie>No need for the NFO, if the NML works;)
11:19<planetmaker>besides NML can write NFO, too ;-)
11:19<planetmaker>but mainly for NML debugging purposes
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11:22<Terkhen>andythenorth: okay, I'll check it later
11:22<andythenorth>Terkhen: okay, I'll ask my question later :)
11:34<Weeknie>hi z-MaTRiX
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11:44<Weeknie>Hmm, I was reading, but it looks like that's not what I'd want to read when using NML, is it?
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11:46<Yexo>there is currently next to no documentation about nml, so I'd advise you to read up on the nfo specs first
11:46<Yexo>if you want to do openttd coding related to newgrfs that is a very useful start
11:47<Weeknie>Ok, I'll continue reading then
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11:50<planetmaker>maybe I should start with some documentation on NML somewhen
11:51<Weeknie>The only documentation that's there is a little about general vehicle properties
11:51<Weeknie>5 of em
11:56<Weeknie>This NFO stuff is hard to get through lol
11:56<planetmaker>yes :-P
11:56<planetmaker>the reason for NML to be born
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11:58<Weeknie> But I'm really beginning to doubt it would be possible to implement the thing I want in those NFO's, or NML for that matter
11:59<planetmaker>not now
11:59<planetmaker>or wasn't it you with the airport thingies?
11:59<Weeknie>no no, it was me with the airport thingies:P
12:00<planetmaker>of course it's not yet possible
12:00<planetmaker>it's not implemented, and as such not documented
12:01<planetmaker>that's what the airports branch is about: defining such specs so that something written in NFO or NML can create much more flexible airports
12:01<planetmaker>not by the player, but by the newgrf authors
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12:02<Weeknie>tbh I fail to see how such a thing could be implemented through NFO's or NML anyway
12:02<Weeknie>It's quite complex
12:03<planetmaker>you don't know yet how complex industries, vehicles or houses might be, I guess :-)
12:03<planetmaker>it's not just graphics
12:04<Weeknie>I know that
12:04<planetmaker>and some properties like speed or accepted cargo
12:04<planetmaker>the FIRS industry set has like 10k lines of code. Plus graphics definitions
12:05<planetmaker>yes, andythenorth , you wrote already that much ^ :-)
12:05<Weeknie>now that I think about it, I also fail to see how they would be able to implement the increasing of production with only NFO's/NML too
12:05<Weeknie>but they did it somehow:P
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12:06<planetmaker>that's the key to all those vehicle and industry magic
12:07<planetmaker>choice as a function of diverse parameters and variables
12:07<planetmaker>which depend upon the current game state
12:08<Weeknie>Then how does the inside of the parser (I'll just call it that for now) work, does it take all those lines and evaluate them all every game tick?
12:09<OwenS>Weeknie: No. It executes things which asked to be executed
12:09<planetmaker>that depends
12:09<planetmaker>as OwenS says
12:09<planetmaker>e.g. production is only decided 8 or 9 times a month
12:09<andythenorth>planetmaker: mostly the CPP wrote that much :P
12:10<planetmaker>production change only once a month
12:10<planetmaker>andythenorth, no. It's the source code
12:10<planetmaker>not the generated NFO
12:10<andythenorth>copy and paste :P
12:10<planetmaker>hardly :-) You avoid that quite well using templates
12:14<Weeknie>But in case it was needed, the line could be checked every quarter of a day or something in that general direction?
12:14<andythenorth>Weeknie: what are you trying to achieve?
12:15<andythenorth>i.e. what are you trying to do to what items, when?
12:15<Weeknie>Erm, well, I'm trying to think out my idea a little along the lines of this system
12:16<Weeknie>The problem I had right now was that I wouldn't know how to make an airplane land as soon as the runway is clear
12:17<Weeknie>Because basically you'd have to check every so many time (with not too big intervals) whether the runway was empty
12:17<andythenorth>ok, but can you articulate your objective? Maybe I missed a message somewhere....
12:17<Weeknie>I'm gonna have dinner now
12:17<Weeknie>I'll do that when I get back;)
12:17<planetmaker>Weeknie, OpenTTD has to make sure that the checks are called when needed
12:17<planetmaker>The NewGRFs need to decide what they return
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12:49<fonsinchen>btw, a cheap trick to get an uncompressed version of a savegame is writing every byte to cerr from SlReadByteInternal
12:49<fonsinchen>Took me some time to find the right place and then 10 seconds to implement it.
12:50<fonsinchen>I guess I
12:50<fonsinchen>'ll put that on the wiki somewhere
12:50<planetmaker>one could just gunzip a savegame?
12:51<fonsinchen>I think gunzip needs some headers
12:51<fonsinchen>the content of which is implied in OpenTTD
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: you can just set the compression method in the config file...
12:52<fonsinchen>but then you can't look at an existing save
12:53<fonsinchen>the case was that I had a big pile of desync debug saves and they were all different
12:53<+glx>load and save ;)
12:53<fonsinchen>and was wondering what exactly was different
12:53<fonsinchen>gllx: doesn't work if there is a bug in the saveload code
12:53<fonsinchen>which there was
12:55<Weeknie>Andythenorth, I'm back, so what exactly did you want to know?
12:55<Weeknie>Wasn't really sure
12:57<Weeknie>Oh, brb
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13:02<andythenorth>Weeknie: I wasn't sure what you were trying to do with nfo / helps us to help if we understand your goal
13:03<Weeknie>Erm well, 3rd post in this topic explains it I think
13:06<andythenorth>ah....that makes sense, but I think you'll be waiting for newgrf airports :)
13:06*andythenorth ponders doing some real work
13:06<Weeknie>Lol, right, that's what PikkaBird said:P
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13:16<Weeknie>Then perhaps I could after all use my C++ skills
13:16<Weeknie>(not that I have a lot of those)
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13:31<andythenorth>hi hi frosch123
13:31<andythenorth>nice trip? :)
13:31<planetmaker>quak frosch123 :-)
13:32<planetmaker>deprived of alcohol meanwhile? :-D
13:32*andythenorth watches a web app database pack slowly :|
13:34<frosch123>evening everyone :)
13:34<frosch123>nice trip, no alcohol :p
13:35<Rubidium>tss... if fonsinchen only asked the real question instead of wondering how to decompress a savegame (which made me assume he didn't save them himself)
13:35<Rubidium>then it would've been trivial
13:40<Alberth>evening frosch123
13:43<planetmaker>Rubidium, I think those were the saves both, saved on the server as well as those she got herself.
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r19827 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 41 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: dutch - 48 changes by Hyronymus
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by erani
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: russian - 7 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: slovenian - 17 changes by ntadej
13:46<Weeknie>It's nightly time again?
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19828 /trunk/src/lang/italian.txt: -Remove: broken strings from Italian (did hope the translator had fixed them by now)
13:46<planetmaker>every day at 20h CEST
13:47<Weeknie>Hmm ok
13:47<planetmaker>delivered only 30 minutes later, though
13:47<Rubidium>planetmaker: lies
13:47<planetmaker>19:45h CEST is commit time for translations
13:47<planetmaker>do I? :-)
13:48<PeterT>planetmaker: I took your advice from a while ago. I have CIA-* on highlight here, and I left #openttd.notice
13:48<planetmaker>why do you highlight on CIA?
13:48<planetmaker>and I cannot remember that advice :-)
13:48<Rubidium>planetmaker: ofcourse you lie...
13:49<planetmaker>I don't deny ;-)
13:49<Rubidium>as it's 20:00 in timezone (TZ=)"CET-1CEST,M3.5.0,M10.5.0/3"
13:50<planetmaker>oh, I'd call that piece "telling not the whole story"
13:50<Rubidium>so it's like statistics
13:51<Rubidium>i.e. the superlative of lies
13:51<planetmaker>Truely I think statistics are easily abused...
13:51*planetmaker just prepares some statistics slides himself
13:51<planetmaker>cumulative curves are nice :-)
13:53<planetmaker>and logarithms also help nicely to make data look automagically better
14:02-!-rhaeder [] has joined #openttd
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14:08-!-tokai [] has joined #openttd
14:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
14:11-!-Brin [] has joined #openttd
14:15-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
14:22<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19829 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Extract assignment from the condition-check in the for statement.
14:25<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19830 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move variable declarations to their first use.
14:30<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19831 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Rename formal parameters of the constructor to match data member variable names.
14:30<andythenorth>anybody want to grant me a cookie? request = container.REQUEST
14:30<andythenorth>RESPONSE = request.RESPONSE
14:30<andythenorth>from DateTime import DateTime
14:30<andythenorth>if not request.form.get("insight", "").strip():
14:30<andythenorth> raise Exception("Insight required!")
14:30<andythenorth>def abort(msg):
14:30<andythenorth> if hasattr(context, 'i_am_a_referrer'):
14:30<andythenorth> obj_url = context.aq_parent.absolute_url() + ('/edit_object?msg=%s' % msg)
14:30<andythenorth> else:
14:30<andythenorth> obj_url = context.aq_parent.aq_parent.absolute_url() + ('/edit_object?msg=%s' % msg)
14:30<andythenorth> RESPONSE.redirect(obj_url)
14:30<andythenorth>for char in title:
14:30<andythenorth> if ord(char) < 32 or ord(char) > 127:
14:30<andythenorth> abort('Referrer titles must be letters, numbers and ordinary punctuation.')
14:30<andythenorth> return
14:30<andythenorth>for char in source_url:
14:30<andythenorth> if ord(char) < 32 or ord(char) > 127:
14:30<andythenorth> abort('Referrer URLs must be ASCII. Put that URL through TinyURL and try again, please.')
14:30<andythenorth> return
14:30<andythenorth>if hasattr(context, 'i_am_a_referrer'):
14:30<andythenorth> # referrer object already exists
14:30<andythenorth> # have to use aq_parent to get correct context
14:30<andythenorth> obj = context.aq_parent
14:31<andythenorth> # referrer object doesn't exist - add a new one
14:31<andythenorth> obj = context.scripts.add_referrer()
14:31<andythenorth># used for validation / user feedback messages
14:31<andythenorth>live_submitted = live
14:31<andythenorth>def handle_image_upload(file, name):
14:31<andythenorth> if file.filename[string.rfind(file.filename, "\\") + 1:]:
14:31<andythenorth> context.image_resizer.recompressImage(obj,file)
14:31<andythenorth>upload_large = handle_image_upload(large_image,'large_image')
14:31<andythenorth># could use the live_check method here, but not much to be gained by the change *right now*.
14:31<andythenorth>if context.validate_image_size(obj=obj,filename='large_image') == False:
14:31-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
14:33<Weeknie>erm, wow:P
14:33<planetmaker>wth was that?
14:33<Weeknie>It was his exit statement
14:33<Weeknie>His final wish
14:33-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
14:33<Weeknie>And thus
14:33<Alberth>paste with a piece of code
14:33<Weeknie>He returned from the heavens
14:33*andythenorth apologises
14:33<andythenorth>sometimes my browser doesn't put urls on the clipboard
14:33<andythenorth>so you got what was already there instead :P
14:33<Weeknie>So then you just copy a shitload of code:P
14:33<planetmaker>paste... sounds like pastries... Hm...
14:34<andythenorth>you got rather a large chunk of python....
14:34<andythenorth>ho hum
14:35<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19832 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Rename variables list->actives, sel->active_sel.
14:35<__ln__>years ago i was talking with a friend online, when some application of his crashed and a message he had been writing to some girl got pasted to the talk window.
14:36<Weeknie>You wouldn't happen to have a copy of that on your machine do you?
14:36<Weeknie>Which you could accidentally share with us
14:37*PeterT pastes andythenorth
14:37<Weeknie>And the paste result is!
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: configure your IRC client so it doesn't send stuff when you paste multi-line content
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: e.g. konversation can open a multi-line edit window instead
14:40<__ln__>Weeknie: btw, is that the kind of thing you would do if you got your hands on your friend's private emails?
14:41<Weeknie>lol, __ln__ don't worry, your dirty little secret is safe with me
14:41<Weeknie>I won't tell anyone you slept with your aunt and your grandma
14:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19833 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Change: Modify NewGRF window towards having combined lists, add captions.
14:43-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
14:46-!-Wasila [] has joined #openttd
14:47<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19834 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Change: Replace matrix list widget in NewGRF gui by a panel with black background.
14:50-!-Wasila [] has quit []
14:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19835 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h): -Codechange: Extract grfident equality check to its own method.
14:51-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19836 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move sprite palette selection code in NewGRF gui to its own method.
14:52-!-PeterT [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
14:52-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
14:52<PeterT>HE'S GOING WILD
14:53<Alberth>about halfway :)
14:54<Noldo>you evil people got me thinking it's that day again
14:54-!-Devedse [] has joined #openttd
14:54<TrueBrain>@kick Xaroth I hate capslock
14:54-!-Xaroth was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I hate capslock]
14:55<Weeknie>For me it's the end of a little vacation:(
14:55-!-Xaroth [~Xaroth@] has joined #openttd
14:55<Weeknie>erm wait, Truebrain, what was that for?
14:55<TrueBrain>for abusively using capslock of course
14:56<TrueBrain>I could have kicked PeterT, but he would be all wining and complaining and stuff, not worth my time
14:56<TrueBrain>and I like you Weeknie, so I won't ever kick you
14:56*Xaroth grr
14:56<PeterT>TrueBrain <3
14:56*TrueBrain pets Xaroth
14:56<Weeknie>TrueBrain <3 indeed:D
14:57*planetmaker senses very very thin ice under Weeknie's feet
14:57<TrueBrain>lol @ planetmaker
14:57<switchgirl>IHATE CAPS
14:57*Xaroth waits for it
14:57<TrueBrain>now you are just showing off
14:58<Weeknie>don't worry planetmaker
14:58<Weeknie>I love you more
14:58<TrueBrain>Solid Harmonie - I want you to Want me, click "The Roof, The Roof, The Roof is on fire"
14:58<TrueBrain>something is wrong ...
14:58<Weeknie>You've been helping me a lot more than that TrueBrain thing
14:58<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19837 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Change: Display list of available (non-active) grfs in the NewGRF window.
14:58<TrueBrain>Weeknie: no need to start being insulting :(
14:58<planetmaker>Weeknie: whether you love me or not certainly won't stop Dorpsgek ;-)
14:58<Weeknie>? wut?
14:58<TrueBrain>@op planetmaker
14:58-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by DorpsGek
14:58<TrueBrain>does that help?
14:58<@planetmaker>and the TrueBrain does marvelous work
14:59<OwenS>TrueBrain: Isn't that a Bloodhound Gang song?
14:59<Weeknie>Ok this is getting confusion lol
14:59<Weeknie>TrueBrain, how do you do that?
14:59<Weeknie>Or are you in fact
14:59<Weeknie>The illusive
14:59<PeterT>hey, TrueBrain said he could kick me or Xaroth
14:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: TrueBrain
14:59<PeterT>which means i'm not on /ignore
14:59*planetmaker is in a very peaceful mind now, though
14:59<@planetmaker>I just had nice dinner :-)
14:59<Weeknie>This is getting confusing
14:59<TrueBrain>@deop planetmaker
14:59-!-mode/#openttd [-o planetmaker] by DorpsGek
14:59<Xaroth>@kick PeterT
14:59<Xaroth>aw :(
15:00<PeterT>Xaroth <3
15:00<TrueBrain>my scripts are offline :(
15:00<planetmaker>doesn't glx always have some nice ones?
15:00<PeterT>oh come on tb :-(
15:00<TrueBrain>DorpsGek: bark
15:00-!-Wasila [] has joined #openttd
15:00<@DorpsGek>Bark Bark
15:01<Weeknie>Really, the fuck:P
15:01<PeterT>Weeknie: DorpsGek is a bot.
15:01<PeterT>and he barks
15:01<Weeknie>DorpsGek: bark
15:01<TrueBrain>Weeknie: without joking, DorpsGek is just a bot, which happens to be under my control
15:02<TrueBrain>it has no soul
15:02<Wasila>hey, is everyone using Mibbit
15:02<TrueBrain>no, only you
15:02<PeterT>nope, Wasila
15:02<Wasila>What are you using?
15:02<PeterT>everyone has a real IRC client
15:02<Weeknie>Pidgin ftw
15:02<PeterT>Well, the free version of XCHat
15:02<Wasila>mIRC is too confusing for me
15:02<PeterT>Pidgin is an IM client that implemented IRC for completeness
15:02<PeterT>not good by any means
15:02<frosch123>[21:02] <TrueBrain> it has no soul <- does that make all of us bots?
15:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19838 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Change: Add filter capability to the availables list.
15:03<Weeknie>Frosch123, speak for yourself
15:03<Wasila>can XChat automatically open particular servers when you log in?
15:03<TrueBrain>frosch123: you have no soul? :(
15:03<PeterT>Wasila: yeap
15:03<Wasila>channels, I mean
15:03<Weeknie>PeterT, wait wut, Xchat has a paid version?
15:03<PeterT>XChat is the paid version
15:03<PeterT>and I use YChat
15:03-!-lewymati [~lewymati@] has joined #openttd
15:04<PeterT>they are both open source
15:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19839 /trunk/src/lang/ (41 files): -Change: Also copy the new filter string in the other languages.
15:04<PeterT>the only thing you pay for XChat is that it is compiled for you
15:04<Wasila>How do you pay for an open source program?
15:04<TrueBrain>by sending them money
15:04<Weeknie>You send money to them
15:04<Weeknie>And then you get the program
15:04<PeterT>TrueBrain: lol
15:04<Wasila>Surely anyone could just put the source code up?
15:04<PeterT><PeterT> the only thing you pay for XChat is that it is compiled for you
15:05<PeterT>the source code is up
15:05<Weeknie>Ever heard of liscense?:P
15:05<TrueBrain>lol @ Rubidium
15:05<Weeknie>Lol, that was fail
15:05<TrueBrain>Weet ik nieh!
15:05<Weeknie>Wow, another one of those dutch fellas
15:05<PeterT>They're all dutch, Weeknie
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>they are most definitely not! :p
15:06<PeterT>and some german ^
15:06<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you are a fake dutchman
15:06<Weeknie>Well anyway a lot mor dutch people than I thought
15:06<Weeknie>We should arrange a meating once lol
15:06<PeterT>Wasila: free version
15:06<TrueBrain>no worries, it suprises us every time too
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>i'm so badly faked, i don't even speak their language :p
15:06<PeterT>you mean an all-guy sex party?
15:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19840 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Add: Add 'rescan' functionality to the NewGRF window.
15:06<TrueBrain>Weeknie: I have had once at my house before
15:06<PeterT>or a meeting?
15:06<TrueBrain>at r10000
15:06<__ln__>even the ones who claim to be from .de are actually just wearing funny masks on their faces.
15:07<planetmaker>Weeknie: why is it a fail to donate to an open source project, if you like what they provide?
15:07<Rubidium>meating? Is that like slapping with meat?
15:07<TrueBrain>I have no issues doing the same for r20000, but I expect boekabart to arrange the cake again
15:07<planetmaker>All those projects also have running costs. For servers, bandwidth etc pp
15:07<Weeknie>My god
15:07<TrueBrain>Rubidium: or will we be doing it at your place this year?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it's an obscure sex practice, of course...
15:08<Weeknie>That was one of the most ill placed typos I've ever made:P
15:08<planetmaker>hm... 16 commits to go...
15:08<TrueBrain>now that is a bad typo
15:08<Rubidium>TrueBrain: I thought it was planetmaker's place this time
15:08<TrueBrain>sof ar away :(
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i thought that, too ;)
15:08<planetmaker>If so it'll have to be in June
15:09<Weeknie>And @ planetmaker, who was still serious, that comment @ rubidium, I'm not going to explain it
15:09<planetmaker>Or we have to do it belated in late August
15:09<TrueBrain>well ... I can borrow a car, so
15:09<Weeknie>Don't really know why I made it anyway
15:09-!-Wasila123 [] has joined #openttd
15:09<Wasila>on XChat
15:09<Wasila>how do I join multiple networks?
15:09<Wasila>I appear to be on here twice <_<
15:09<PeterT>You are here twice
15:09<TrueBrain>planetmaker: so, June .. any specific date in mind?
15:09<PeterT>Wasila and Wasila123
15:09<Wasila>I know :D
15:09<TrueBrain>I wonder how long of a drive it will be ...
15:09<planetmaker>not so far.
15:09<planetmaker>TrueBrain: about 6 hours
15:09<Wasila>How do I automatically join two networks on XChat
15:10<TrueBrain>so I can sleep at your place too? :p
15:10<planetmaker>maybe 5 if you have little traffic
15:10<Wasila123>What he said.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>6 hours? where are you driving?
15:10<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: from his place to mine ;-)
15:10<__ln__>why not go uninvited to Bjarni's and ring his doorbell?
15:10<PeterT>Wasila123: hold on
15:10<planetmaker>probably 5 are sufficient
15:10<PeterT>Wasila123: network list
15:10<PeterT>click on network
15:10<PeterT>connect on startup
15:10<TrueBrain>takes me 2 hours to get to Rubidium
15:11<__ln__>PeterT, Wasila123: get a room you two
15:11<Wasila>Where's network list?
15:11-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
15:11<Rubidium>Wasila: this is not #xchat
15:11<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19841 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Feature: Setup NewGRFs from a single window.
15:11<TrueBrain>when did this channel became the irc help channel
15:11<PeterT>this is #nothing-related-to-openttd
15:11<TrueBrain>planetmaker: where do I need to set my route-planner to? (I always forget :p)
15:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19842 /trunk/src/lang/ (54 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Adapt other languages too.
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it took me 6 hours from here to karlsruhe, certainly the distance from the netherlands to your place is shorter than that...
15:12<Weeknie>__ln__, why did you have to say that, now I"ve got all messy thoughts in me head
15:12-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12<TrueBrain>google tells me 4 hours and 30 minutes
15:12<TrueBrain>it is almost a horizontal line
15:12<planetmaker>yup :-)
15:12<Weeknie>TrueBrain, where do you live then?
15:12<Weeknie>Got to be either germany or france with 4 hours
15:12<PeterT>Alberth: is r19841 the sepcial NewGRF GUIs you've been working on?
15:12<TrueBrain>in a home
15:12<__ln__>for vertical you'd need a rocket
15:12<planetmaker>I didn't know quite exactly anymore your town ;-)
15:13<Weeknie>Perhaps swiss thingy?
15:13<OwenS>TrueBrain: in a home? You're older than I expected
15:13<TrueBrain>OwenS: I have that effect
15:13-!-Wasila123 [] has quit []
15:13<OwenS>(For the curious: In the UK saying someone is "in a home" tends to refer to retirement homes :P)
15:13-!-Wasila123 [] has joined #openttd
15:13<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19843 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Move ComputeMaxSize() to widget_type.h to make it globally accessible.
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>... google maps still fails on konqueror...
15:13<planetmaker>I propose either 12/13 June or 19/20
15:13<Alberth>is it special?
15:14-!-Wasila [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
15:14<TrueBrain>OwenS: lucky I don't live in the UK then
15:14<TrueBrain>12th I am not available
15:14<planetmaker>it's approx. free weekends in my calender
15:14<planetmaker>and distant from nasty deadlines
15:14<TrueBrain>the 19th is no issue for me
15:14<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how about you?
15:14-!-Wasila123 is now known as Wasila
15:14-!-Wasila is now known as register
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid i'm busy each weekend in june...
15:15<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: wtf? Why!
15:15*PeterT puts the cash in the register
15:15<Rubidium>don't think I've got lot to do in the weekends in june
15:15<TrueBrain>planetmaker: how many people can you host a party for?
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>it's that time of a year...
15:15-!-register is now known as Wasila
15:16<Weeknie>Wait, planetmaker and truebrain, you're seriously planning something now?:P
15:16<__ln__>so close to france
15:16-!-beerface [] has joined #openttd
15:17<OwenS>"Maximum vertex attributes: 16 " What? Thats hugely dissappointing :(
15:17<TrueBrain>Weeknie: you want to know just 2 things about me: 1) never piss me off, 2) I am crazy
15:17<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19844 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Fix: Move NWidgetBase::StoreSizePosition() to an include file, and use proper inline macro.
15:17<planetmaker>well. It's not a big flat. I guess if we squeeze, 6 to 8 people could stay overnight, if they bring sleeping bag
15:17<planetmaker>for just the party... could be more
15:17<planetmaker>like 20 fit in
15:17<TrueBrain>so, who here wants free cake? :p
15:17<Ammler>and SmatZ is cooking the gulash
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>"free" if you discount the cost of the train ticket/fuel ;)
15:18<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Thats not free! :p
15:18<Weeknie>Hi tricked you!
15:18<TrueBrain>the cake is free
15:18<__ln__>i don't want fuel in my piece of cake
15:18<Rubidium>anyhow, it's in Karlruhe?
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: gulash is hungrian, not czech
15:18<planetmaker>Rubidium: me?
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no
15:18<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: Hungarian.
15:19<PeterT>not hungrian.
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: i'm hungry, i mean.
15:19<PeterT>I fell right into that.
15:19<planetmaker>Eddi should have a 3 hour ride :-)
15:19<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause should just make time
15:19<planetmaker>if you go 200km/h it's 1:30 ;-)
15:19<TrueBrain>he is always zuhause
15:19<beerface>how do I set the max loan for my server?
15:20<TrueBrain>ask your operator
15:20<CIA-6>OpenTTD: alberth * r19845 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Feature: Dynamically switch between 2 and 3 column NewGRF gui for improved user experience.
15:20<Alberth>you asked that yesterday too
15:20-!-Wasila [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: google says 1h 55m
15:20<beerface>I did
15:20<TrueBrain>Weeknie: owh, and a 3rd point: I have a poor sense of humor
15:20<__ln__>planetmaker: Niedersachsen?
15:20<planetmaker>:-O at r19845
15:20<Alberth>and you got an answer
15:20-!-Wasila [] has joined #openttd
15:20<planetmaker>__ln__: yes
15:20<Weeknie>Lol, good one TrueBrain
15:20<beerface>well do I do it once i have made a game?
15:20<TrueBrain>how about you dihedral?
15:20<planetmaker>"Zonenrandgebiet" :-P
15:20<TrueBrain>(just read your freaking backlog both :p)
15:20<TrueBrain>blathijs: ^^
15:20<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I had in my mind time from Jena :-)
15:20<Alberth>THAT'S ALL FOLKS
15:21<TrueBrain>Alberth: ^^
15:21<beerface>i did
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: jena is quite a lot further south
15:21<TrueBrain>glx: ^^
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>and we have the B6n now ;)
15:21<planetmaker>yes... one hour or 88 km
15:21<beerface>also im unclean on how to set a goal
15:21<TrueBrain>Yexo: ^^
15:21<TrueBrain>do I need more highlights? :p
15:21<Osai>suck0r -.-
15:21<planetmaker>michi_cc could come over. It's only 60km
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the B6 quasi directly connects Halle to Braunschweig
15:22<Weeknie>Lol TrueBrain, I think you've had enough of em;)
15:22<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: B14 B2 is faster
15:22<TrueBrain>just the people I know are crazy enough to come too :p
15:22<planetmaker>err.. A14, A2
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that were true, if i were on the other side of the Saale ;)
15:22<Zuu>According to google maps it's only a 5 hour drive for me. :-)
15:23<TrueBrain>Zuu: so you should come too :p
15:23<planetmaker>:-O @ Zuu then drop by!
15:23<Ammler>pm lives in the centre of OpenTTD
15:23<Zuu>If it was in Niedersachsen?
15:23<planetmaker>Eastern Lower Saxony
15:23<Weeknie>Planetmaker, where do you live?
15:23<frosch123>he, i left bs just 5 hours ago
15:23<Zuu>If it is the later date, then I don't think I have anything planed at least.
15:23<planetmaker>:-O @ frosch123
15:24<__ln__>Zuu: where do you live?
15:24<TrueBrain>Osai: I am seriously, come join us at planetmaker's place :D
15:24<planetmaker>and you didn't say a word?!
15:24<Yexo>from which point on do I need to read back?
15:24<Zuu>__ln__: Lund/Norrköping
15:24<Osai>where are you at pm?
15:24<TrueBrain>Yexo: from this point :p
15:24<TrueBrain>June btw
15:24<planetmaker>Yexo: nowhere. Come to Braunschweig 19th/20th June
15:24<planetmaker>Party here
15:24<Osai>pm, I am close to Braunschweig next weekend
15:24<Yexo>I have exams starting the 21th
15:24<planetmaker>Osai: seriously? Where?
15:25<Osai>but 19th/20th june I am in Frankfurt a.M.
15:25<Osai>I am in Schöppenstedt
15:25<TrueBrain>Yexo: :(
15:25<planetmaker>Schöppenstedt... a village nearby
15:25<planetmaker>I can go there by bike in 30 minutes
15:25<Osai>yes :P
15:25<Yexo>is there a decent train connection to braunscheig?
15:25<planetmaker>to Amsterdam it's reasonable
15:25<Rubidium>Yexo: yeah, the IC from A'dam to Berlin
15:26<Yexo>ok ;)
15:26<TrueBrain>I am going to try to get a car, so you can drive with if I can get one :p
15:26<beerface>so can some one help me with setting a goal for my server that I made?
15:26<Osai>what are you celebrating?
15:26<planetmaker>Car is comfortable
15:26<planetmaker>Osai: r20k
15:26<TrueBrain>Osai: r20000 by then, hopefully?
15:26<Osai>thought so :)
15:26<TrueBrain>well .. I will make sure it happens by then :p
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's quite far outside of braunschweig, actually...
15:26<TrueBrain>maybe on that day .. hmm ...
15:26<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I know where it is. 30 minutes, maybe 45 should work
15:27<Osai>hmmm, I'd really like to join
15:27<Osai>but I am busy :/
15:27<planetmaker>I live in the NorthEast
15:27<planetmaker>I just have to drive out to the South-East
15:27<TrueBrain>Osai: MAKE TIME!
15:27<Osai>I can't
15:27<TrueBrain>:( :(
15:27<Osai>very important event
15:27<planetmaker>Ammler: will come, too?
15:27<__ln__>Osai: more important than r20k party?!?
15:27<planetmaker>and dihedral ?
15:28<beerface>can any one help a semi noob on setting up a server here?
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: my aunt lives not far away from there
15:28<Osai>much more
15:28<TrueBrain>Osai: going for Gold?
15:28<planetmaker>beerface: goal servers are hacked servers
15:28<Zuu>hmm, does anyone know a good public transport search engine that is somewhat international?
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: in Hötensleben, directly at the border
15:28<Osai>biggest european tournament
15:28<beerface>what? hacked servers?
15:28<TrueBrain>Osai: nice!
15:28<dihedral>beerface, why would a semi-noob want to setup a server if he considers himself already a semi-noob?
15:28<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I never heart that name ;-)
15:29<TrueBrain>dihedral: answer our question already!
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it's directly opposite of Schöningen
15:29<beerface>planetmaker: what do you mean hacked servers?
15:29<planetmaker>Zuu: should work
15:29<Alberth>beerface: custom modified
15:29<planetmaker>maybe you can fly even to Hannover, Berlin or maybe even Braunschweig
15:29<Muxy>beerface: did you talk about goalserver or just regular server...
15:29<dihedral>TrueBrain, what? :-P
15:30<Alberth>Muxy: goal server
15:30<TrueBrain>Alberth: will you come too? :p
15:30<planetmaker>Will Hirundo also come?
15:30<Alberth>I have no idea how to get there
15:30<dihedral>TrueBrain, as of my 'hi' or before?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: google says A14/A2 is exactly the same time as B6
15:30<Ammler>the Dutchies can rent their own train waggon
15:30<Hirundo>planetmaker: When what where?
15:30<Muxy>sory, didnt saw the first request
15:30<planetmaker>19th / 20th June. 20k party in Braunschweig
15:30<Rubidium>Zuu: only takes ~12 hours from Norrköping Central to Braunschweig Hbf
15:30<TrueBrain>Alberth: well, if you can get to me, you can tag along, assuming I can borrow a car .. :p
15:31<Alberth>you live in the wrong direction :)
15:31<planetmaker>then do it vice versa: TB gets to alberth's place and then you drive ;-)
15:31<TrueBrain>where do you live btw? :p
15:31<Alberth>TrueBrain: Eindhoven
15:31<dihedral>not looked at irc for a few days now .... until the 'hi'
15:31<Rubidium>Zuu: take the X2000 to Copenhagen, ICE to Hamburg, "Schnellzug" to Hannover and then the Regional-Express to Braunschweig
15:31<TrueBrain>then take a train to Enschede :p
15:31<TrueBrain>dihedral: read what planetmaker says :p
15:32<dihedral>r20k party?
15:32<planetmaker>[21:30] <planetmaker> 19th / 20th June. 20k party in Braunschweig
15:32<Weeknie>And all this started because of me
15:32<Weeknie>Oh I feel so special:D
15:32<planetmaker>you overestimate your influence grossly ;-)
15:32<Weeknie>Lol right:P
15:32<planetmaker>we talked about that even back in January
15:33<TrueBrain>planetmaker: read PM please :)
15:33<Alberth>volunteers to pay the bill are always welcome :p
15:33<Weeknie>But I brought it up again!
15:33<dihedral>sounds good, but i can be more specific in 10 - 12 days
15:33<TrueBrain>Alberth: or get to amersfoort, also fine by me :p
15:33<Alberth>that is much better
15:34<Zuu>Rubidium: Ok, thanks
15:34<Ammler>Is there someone else south of planetmaker?
15:34*frosch123 is
15:34<frosch123>but i would take the train in any case
15:34<planetmaker>TrueBrain: I switched off sound ;-) that's why I didn't see it ;-)
15:34<TrueBrain>np :)
15:34<dihedral>my brother and my sister live in Hannover ^^
15:34<frosch123>Ammler: there is a direct ice train from basel to braunschweig
15:35<TrueBrain>Alberth: I will be going from Leiden, A4, A1 to Enschede .. everywhere along the line I can pick you up (if you like of course :p)
15:35<TrueBrain>still assuming I can get a car ...
15:35<Ammler>I would prefer train too :-)
15:35*Rubidium is south of planetmaker too
15:35<Ammler>more comfort
15:35<dihedral>if i travle i would go from Karlsruhe
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i'm not the kind of south that you'd like ;)
15:35<dihedral>and if i come, i have a car
15:35<Ammler>around 4 hours
15:36<Alberth>TrueBrain: ok, that sounds like enough for now :)
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>the 19th i might have time, but i must be back early on the 20th
15:36<dihedral>so - space for another 3 people in that car
15:36<Yexo>TrueBrain: if you have a free place in that car, count me in too :)
15:36<TrueBrain>nice nice :)
15:36<dihedral>Ammler, how would you travle?
15:37*Rubidium votes for TrueBrain picking me up at home :)
15:37<Zuu>hehe :-)
15:37<frosch123>planetmaker: your flat will be flooded by 500 people :p
15:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: no problem :) And if blathijs joins too, the car is full :p
15:37<__ln__>planetmaker: am i invited?
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't trust google... it tries to send me via beesenstedt-friedeburg-könnern...
15:37<dihedral>yay - nice 'n cosey
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>that's an awfully non-direct road...
15:37<planetmaker>sure, come along __ln__
15:37<dihedral>__ln__, remember though - it's in germany - so no 'english only'
15:38<TrueBrain>__ln__: under the condition I can give you a real (gentle) kick? :)
15:38<planetmaker>haha :-)
15:38<Weeknie>Whohoo I got zlib to install on msys
15:38<Weeknie>That took me quite long enough
15:38<dihedral>TrueBrain, a kick in the nuts? :-P
15:38<planetmaker>sänk juh for träwelling wis doitshe bahn
15:38<__ln__>dihedral: natürlich, nur deutsch
15:38<Rubidium>because leaving the highway to go to Hengelo station takes 15 minutes extra, going to my house takes 16 minutes extra :)
15:38<TrueBrain>ich spreche keine deutsch
15:38<planetmaker>__ln__: I can host English speaking guests, too ;-)
15:38<Rubidium>and going to Amersfoort station takes 21 minutes extra
15:39<Ammler>ich schnorre au keis Dütsch
15:39<Rubidium>how traffic lights can screw your average speed
15:39*Zuu knows zero german :-p
15:39<dihedral>sorry - it'd be in dschörmänie
15:39<planetmaker>DJNekkid: come over, too ;-)
15:39<TrueBrain>"including unlimited kilometers. 20 eurocent extra per kilometer"
15:40<__ln__>damn, i already thought i found a cheap flight to hannover, but i hadn't selected the return flight, and selecting that doubled the price.
15:40<Ammler>hehe, DJNekkid sound :-)
15:40<TrueBrain>6000 Inclusief onbeperkt aantal kilometers
15:40<planetmaker>sixt's conditions got increasingly worse
15:40<TrueBrain>0.20 EUR Iedere extra kilometer
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: "schnorren" means something different around here ;)
15:40<Rubidium>TrueBrain: where are you looking?
15:40<Weeknie>Lol, nice one TrueBrain
15:41<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I can guess what
15:41<TrueBrain>I want to rent a car for 2 months, or buy one, not sure yet
15:41-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
15:41<TrueBrain>oeh, I almost forgot to prod Xaroth too :p
15:41<dihedral>TrueBrain, you'd be better off buying one for 500 eur
15:41<__ln__>official language for the meeting: ad hoc dutch
15:41<dihedral>and if it breaks - walk the rest :-P
15:42*Rubidium dislikes Hertz already
15:42<Rubidium> <- stoopid
15:43<TrueBrain>just 2000 euro to rent a car for 2 months .. not bad
15:43<planetmaker>the longer the cheaper. per day
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>"Straße der DSF" --- these things still seem to exist everywehere...
15:45<planetmaker>[21:30] <planetmaker> 19th / 20th June. 20k party in Braunschweig
15:46<planetmaker>hm... I'm used to some Dutch at my parties. But I think had never that many previously ;-)
15:46<TrueBrain>Xaroth: ^^
15:46<Xaroth>what'd i miss :/
15:46<TrueBrain>what planetmaker says
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>"DSF" is an abbreviation for "Deutsch-Sowjetische Freundschaft"
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i can't decide whether i come or not just yet...
15:49<Xaroth>sounds germany, too far away
15:49<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you don't have to decide now. But it'd be awesome :-)
15:49<TrueBrain>it is germany Xaroth .. 5 hour drive for us
15:49<planetmaker>Xaroth: not really. Just next door :-P
15:50<__ln__>TrueBrain: what did you do during the previous meeting besides eating cake?
15:50<Xaroth>yes, like i'm going to drive 5 horus.....
15:50<Xaroth>i can get in england in that time
15:50<TrueBrain>well, somehow we ended up debating 32bit pngs
15:51<TrueBrain>which gave the solution that is now in trunk
15:51<TrueBrain>Xaroth: pussy
15:51<TrueBrain>__ln__: but I hope this time we can just have fun :p
15:51-!-Wasila [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: not everybody has to drive individually, when 5 persons come from the same general direction...
15:51<__ln__>debating pngs sounds fun :)
15:51<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: still, 5 hours by car...
15:51<Xaroth>I'd rather go to england if i had to travel 5 hours :p
15:52<__ln__>5 hours by car is nothing
15:52<Xaroth>back and forth through the entire country here...
15:53<TrueBrain>blah blah
15:53<TrueBrain>you disapoint me
15:53<Zuu>yea, you're supposed to be transport nerds. :-p
15:53*dihedral is off
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>if you're 5 people, that means only 1 hour each ;)
15:53<TrueBrain>bye dihedral
15:54<TrueBrain>make sure to be there the 19th :p
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>or you can go 5 hours by train instead ;)
15:54<Zuu>And pay far more. :-s
15:55<Zuu>120 Euro just to get to Hanover was the price I got. Hopefully there is some tricks to get it cheaper.
15:55<planetmaker>Zuu: that sounds not too expensive
15:55<__ln__>from Hamburg on you can use Niedersachsen-Ticket
15:56<__ln__>if it still exists
15:56<planetmaker>it's like 25€(?) return from Hannover
15:56<planetmaker>__ln__: it does
15:57<planetmaker>but that might limit you to non-highspeed trains
15:57<Zuu>The month-pass-ticket?
15:58<__ln__>Zuu: More like travel-as-much-as-you-want-during-one-day-in-Niedersachsen-for-17€-or-so.
15:58<planetmaker>it's a day(?) ticket which allows free travel within all Lower Saxony
15:58<Zuu>Oh, yea. One of those.
15:58<TrueBrain>but you need 2, as you need to get back too
15:58<__ln__>Covers regional trains, public transport of certain cities, and some buses.
15:59<Zuu>I guess "Niedersachsen" means that it is such a ticket. As I said my german is void/null/zero.
15:59<__ln__>TrueBrain: thinking about getting back is premature optimization
16:00<__ln__>Zuu: nieder = nedre, sachsen = sachsen
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: no, niedersachsen is the name of the country ;)
16:01<planetmaker>Zuu: it's the name of the federal state I live in
16:01<Zuu>Oh, okay.
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>hm... going by train is hopeless...
16:02<__ln__>Zuu: do you have a car?
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>it takes me twice as long...
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>with a 1h wait...
16:02<Zuu>I don't own one.
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>if i try to avoid IC, three times...
16:05<Zuu>still, if I lend/rent a car the germans would go crazy and flash their head lights as Swedish cars have the lights always on. :-p
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>0:45 to Halle (bus), 0:30 wait, 2:25 to Vienenburg, 1:30 wait, 0:25 to Wolfenbüttel, 0:20 wait, 0:20 to Schöppenstedt
16:06<Zuu>Anyhow, I'll check that "detail" later.. :-)
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: actually that's not that common anymore, since there was a law passed that lights should always be on in the winter
16:07<Zuu>Oh, so germans has shifted their minds towards accepting people driving with the lights on?
16:08-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
16:08<planetmaker>Zuu: when driving 'on duty' I'm required to drive with lights on
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: yes, in the past ~2 years
16:08<Zuu>Oh, good news.
16:08<planetmaker>I made it even a habit to do it personally past-time, too
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>cars support you in that nowadays, automatically switching the lights off if you stop them and open the door
16:09<Zuu>Here I've read about some legislation that would allow people to drive with the ligts off if the car is enquiped with a sensor that turns on the lights when it gets dark.
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>so you never need to touch the light switch
16:10<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: in Scandinavia you don't. Lights are switched on with the ignition
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>hee... funny, going back is a lot faster ;)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>what does a "schönes wochenendticket" cost nowadays?
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: how far is your place from the train station?
16:12<Zuu>planetmaker: though you usually have to use the switch in order to make it possible to toggle the full beam lights. If you don't touch the light switch, then you can only flash with the full beam lights but not enable them persistently.
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>need to catch the train at 6:53 if i want to be back early enough
16:12<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: 20 minutes bus and / or tram
16:13<__ln__>Terkhen: ¿vas a participar?
16:13<planetmaker>at 6:53!?
16:13<planetmaker>holy cow
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>on a sunday?
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>need to be back at 11:00
16:13<planetmaker>I guess there's no public transport then
16:13<planetmaker>I could give you a ride
16:13-!-wubbel4 [] has joined #openttd
16:14<planetmaker>public transport is IMHO notoriously bad here when not weekday and working time
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>... this stupid site doesn't give pricing information...
16:14<Terkhen>__ln__: too much for a student's economy... besides, I'll probably be working
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: does your tram/bus stop have a name?
16:14<planetmaker>you don't even get to church at 10am from here downtown
16:14<wubbel4>i have a question
16:14<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: Burgundenplatz or Siegfriedstraße
16:14<planetmaker>both do fine
16:14<wubbel4>what is so speacial about the nightley version?
16:14<planetmaker>the first for tram, the latter for bus
16:15<wubbel4> what is so speacial about the nightley version?
16:15<Zuu>wubbel4: It updates every night
16:15<planetmaker>wubbel4: they are the bleeding edge where devs work upon
16:15<planetmaker>new features and new bugs
16:15<wubbel4>whitch do you prever?
16:15<wubbel4>the 1.01 version on nightleY?
16:15<Zuu>And often more sane people at the nightly multiplayer servers.
16:16<planetmaker>Zuu: at least the more experienced ones
16:16<Zuu>I already miss a few features when I'm playing at stable servers.
16:16<planetmaker>hehe :-)
16:16<planetmaker>wubbel4: it really depends
16:16<KenjiE20>yea 'sane' isn't the word I'd use for nightly folks :P
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm... site doesn't like that name...
16:16<wubbel4>zuu: like what?
16:16<Zuu>drag bus/truck stops
16:16*planetmaker definitely is not sane
16:17*KenjiE20 wibbles
16:17<Zuu>ctrl+click on buses/trains.
16:17*planetmaker just agreed to host a party for people whom all I have never seen :-O
16:17-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>"Ihre Eingabe "Schöppenstedt, Burgundenplatz" konnte vom Provider "Niedersachsen" nicht interpretiert werden."
16:17<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: don't go to Schöppenstedt. Go to Braunschweig Hauptbahnhof
16:18<wubbel4>but i going to play now
16:18<wubbel4>you all have a nice day :)
16:18-!-wubbel4 [] has left #openttd []
16:18<Zuu>Sure, though it's more like night..
16:18-!-Devroush [] has quit []
16:18<planetmaker>yeah... late at night actually
16:18<Zuu>yea, got to sleep soonish
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, it _should_ direct me all the way...
16:19<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: try
16:19<planetmaker>for that distances
16:19<planetmaker>Schöppenstedt & Co
16:20<Terkhen>andythenorth: about the lumber yard: I thought you was referring to something at the forum threads, I don't know what I did to not see that discussion after connecting to IRC
16:20<Terkhen>what was the question?
16:21<Zuu>hmm, would be fun to meet you all, hopefully not everyone will speak german/dutch :-p And hopefully will serve me well enough. :-)
16:21<andythenorth>I am creating a Lumber Yard that produces ENSP from lumber and chemicals. I was wondering about having it accept MNSP, but I think it's a bad idea
16:21<Zuu>And hopefully my ears will+*
16:21<planetmaker>Zuu: I'm quite confident that we'll find with English a common basis :-)
16:21-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
16:21<Zuu>hehe yep :-)
16:22<OwenS>planetmaker: With lots of funny accents :p
16:22<planetmaker>That'll be fun, yeah
16:22<planetmaker>But accents can't get more funny than what one gets served at international conferences
16:22<OwenS>planetmaker: But even in the UK some of us can't understand each other :p
16:22<Terkhen>andythenorth: I agree, I would not use the machine shop at all in that case and that defeats the purpose of the lumber yard
16:22<Weeknie>Where is this gathering now?
16:22<planetmaker>OwenS: happend me within Germany, too
16:23<planetmaker>in Braunschweig
16:23<andythenorth>Terkhen: thanks
16:24-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
16:26<__ln__>pretty expensive
16:26<frosch123> <- sometimes reading back the forums can be quite fun :)
16:27*andythenorth wouldn't bother porting code that works :P
16:27<frosch123>let's post "what a waste of time, port it to nml"
16:29<__ln__>does it make sense to approach from Berlin?
16:30<Zuu>__ln__: you're from Finland right?
16:30<frosch123>there are direct connections between berlin an braunschweig, if you mean that
16:30<__ln__>Zuu: correct
16:30-!-DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<__ln__>frosch123: that is what i mean
16:32<Alberth>planetmaker: server doesn't tell you the path to clone from, for a project, does it?
16:33<frosch123>35€ per direction for 3 hours per directon, 50 € per direction for 1.5 hours per direction
16:33<planetmaker>Alberth: not for every project, unfortunately. You could add it to a project description for each one
16:33<planetmaker>it's always
16:33<planetmaker>for anonymous checkout
16:34<Alberth>ok, thanks
16:34<__ln__>frosch123: thanks
16:34<planetmaker>you're welcome
16:34<planetmaker>__ln__: Berlin-BS is 1:30h by ICE train
16:35<Ammler><project-identifier> it is newly :-)
16:35<Ammler>but the other should rewrite and still work
16:35<__ln__>hmm, would have to get insanely cheap flights to Berlin (compared to Hannover) in order to compensate the ICE.
16:35<planetmaker>Ammler: I'll recall that then :-)
16:37<planetmaker>[22:27] <frosch123> let's post "what a waste of time, port it to nml" <- I could hold myself back ;-)
16:37<Alberth>Ammler: thanks, made a note about it.
16:37<Alberth>good night
16:37<planetmaker>__ln__: if Hannover is cheaper to fly in, that's quicker, too
16:37<frosch123>night albert
16:37<planetmaker>good night, Alberth
16:38-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
16:38<planetmaker>__ln__: rough estimate: Hannover is 1h, Berlin 1:30h...2h
16:39<frosch123>but hannover - bs is way cheaper per train :p
16:39<planetmaker>frosch123: yes
16:40<__ln__>293€ turku-hannover by SAS, ugh. that's a lot of €€€.
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that's only twice as much as what Zuu pays ;)
16:41-!-welshdragon is now known as welshdragon`
16:42<Zuu>Actually I found out on that from Lund all way to Braunschweig Hbf it costs 129 Euro.
16:42<__ln__>one way?
16:42<Zuu>one way
16:43<planetmaker>well, I wouldn't kick you out, if you decided to travel only on Monday or so :-)
16:43<Zuu>I just found out how to get in a (for me) more esily understandable language than german. :-)
16:43<planetmaker>or come on Friday
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: going by bus seems to work, they seem to go every hour, and connectivity with the train is not bad
16:43<planetmaker>long-distance travel can be difficult to time accurately
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>like 10 minutes wait
16:44<planetmaker>from Halle? Or Schöppenstedt?
16:44<Weeknie>At last
16:44<Weeknie>I got openTTD to compile
16:44<Weeknie>On my system
16:44-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:44<Weeknie>Under windows
16:44<Weeknie>(well kinda)
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>from braunschweig main station ;)
16:44<planetmaker>ah. Well. From the main train station it's not a problem
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i'm still not sure...
16:44<+glx>Weeknie: not very hard
16:45<__ln__>glx: you coming?
16:45<planetmaker>just Sunday morning won't work :-) But then ... as said, I could give a ride. A taxi is 10€
16:45<planetmaker>alternatively that is
16:45<TrueBrain>glx: will you join us too? Or is it really to far away? :)
16:45<Weeknie>glx, it is hard
16:46<Weeknie>It took me about 3 hours to get zlib working correctly on the thing...
16:46<Weeknie>Oh well, its' fixed now
16:46<Weeknie>Let me be happy if I want to lol
16:47<Weeknie>Hmm well, good night everyone
16:47<+glx>no it's too far away
16:47-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@] has joined #openttd
16:47<planetmaker>:-( @ glx
16:47<planetmaker>from where would you need to travel?
16:47-!-Weeknie [~Maarten_S@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:48<+glx>I'm near Paris
16:48<planetmaker>uh, yeah.
16:48<Ammler>TGV :-)
16:48<TrueBrain>too bad :)
16:48<planetmaker>Ammler: even then :-)
16:48<+glx>Ammler: yes the best way to be late ;)
16:48<planetmaker>By car it's 12 hours. By train... dunno.
16:48<Zuu>My bill ends at 270 euro :-p
16:48<TrueBrain>Zuu: :| :| :| :| :|
16:48<planetmaker>plane might work
16:48<Zuu>(both ways)
16:48<__ln__>Zuu: hur mycket säger SAS till dej?
16:48<planetmaker>Zuu: uh... :S
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16:49<Zuu>__ln__: haven't checked them
16:49<planetmaker>Zuu: from where do you travel?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>glx: at least you're late at high speed ;)
16:49<TrueBrain>it will cost me .. 80 euro, both ways (gas-price)
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>glx: and you paid extra to do so ;)
16:50<planetmaker>TrueBrain: sounds about right
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16:50<Yexo>TrueBrain: is that totally or per person?
16:50<TrueBrain>totally of course
16:50<planetmaker>Yexo: totally
16:50<Zuu>planetmaker: Malmö/Copenhagen
16:51<planetmaker>Oh, that's indeed acceptable distance
16:51<planetmaker>Zuu: ferry+car?
16:51<TrueBrain>and I guess we will have to take some drinks or something to share with planetmaker :p
16:51<+michi_cc>planetmaker: Am I reading that right, party? Would fit, if no ash is interfering, I should be back in Germany on the 17th :)
16:52<TrueBrain>michi_cc: cool :)
16:52<planetmaker>yes, you read correctly
16:52<Zuu>My guess is that going alone in a car will not cost more than 270 even if I have to rent it. Maybe with international extra fees.
16:52<+michi_cc>And travel would be no problem, seeing that I live near Hannover
16:52<planetmaker>yeah :-)
16:53<+michi_cc>I might fall asleep in the evening tough, thanks to Bloody Timezones :)
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16:54<Eddi|zuHause>seems to be 37,50€ per ticket
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>so unless i get back on the same day, that makes almost 80€ for me, too...
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>unless someone meets me in Halle and we share the ticket
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>up to 5 people ;)
16:56<__ln__>is that the wunderschönes weekend ticket?
16:56<planetmaker>Zuu: I calculated that going by car up to Alesund (Norway) costs ~500€ fuel
16:56<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: sure there's no 1-person edition of it?
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16:57<planetmaker>(return that is). You're about half-way 2/5 to there
16:57<planetmaker>so 200€ might be right
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16:57<__ln__>fuel is expensive in norway, at least used to be back in 90's.
16:57<Zuu>one-way or two-way?
16:57<planetmaker>two-way money ;-)
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16:58<Eddi|zuHause>don't forget the money exchange fee
16:58<planetmaker>thus I decided to take the plane for that distance. 1/4 travel time for same price (fuel costs halfed)
16:58<Zuu>hmm, so it depends on the car price. My dad's car has the feature of needing you to disconnect the battery when you let it stand unused for any longer time or it will dischanrge. :-p
16:58<planetmaker>:-P lool
16:58<planetmaker>what a nice 'feature'
16:59<Zuu>Renting a volvo would be at about 80 euro.
16:59<+glx>a very powerful clock ?
16:59<planetmaker>well, we can arrange that, too, I guess
16:59<planetmaker>(a disconnected battery that is)
17:00<Zuu>I'm not really sure if I would like to go far with that car though as you can't really be sure it will not lose any more functions. :-)
17:01<planetmaker>6 hours drive according to google
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17:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... DB suggests 30€ per direction
17:06<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you still have a STudentenausweise?
17:06<planetmaker>then you probably have free travel by Nasa? :-)
17:06<planetmaker>I like that abreviation ;-)
17:06<planetmaker>crappy :-(
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17:07<Eddi|zuHause>included is only within halle during nights and weekend. pay extra for whole day in halle, and more extra if you want one zone outside of halle
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>it's a bad way... but voting for a full region (MDV) ticket was repeatedly rejected, because it would involve everyone who does not want at least two zones pay more...
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>MDV is Halle and Leipzig, plus surrounding area
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>south-eastern Sachsen-Anhalt and north-western Sachsen
17:09<Zuu>Oo, only ~20-30 euro to go by ferry to Rostock :-)
17:09<Zuu>(as passenger without car)
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>would have cost every student 100€ per semester
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>but that didn't find a majority...
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>damn democracy...
17:11<SmatZ>damne democracy?
17:11*SmatZ should re-enable BNC logging for #openttd
17:12<SmatZ>oh, ZNC got new web interface
17:12<__ln__>SmatZ: you going?
17:13-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:13<SmatZ>__ln__: going where?
17:14<SmatZ>how comes I am able to login to ZNC when the "allowed IP" is 88.146.45.*, but I got different IP now
17:14<__ln__>SmatZ: r20000 party
17:14<xOR>because * is on that list, too?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause> PM Semesterticketentscheid.pdf <- says only 1/3 favoured the new (larger) model over the existing one at our university
17:15<planetmaker>SmatZ: r20k party 19/20 June at my place
17:15<Eddi|zuHause> PM Semesterticketentscheid.pdf <- says only 1/3 favoured the new (larger) model over the existing one at our university
17:16<SmatZ>__ln__: planetmaker: perfect!
17:16*SmatZ re-enabled logging at #openttd
17:16*SmatZ tests
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17:16<SmatZ>it works :)
17:17<SmatZ>planetmaker: where can I find any further info?
17:17<planetmaker>nowhere so far
17:17<SmatZ>ok :)
17:17<planetmaker>we just decided this evening
17:17<SmatZ>where do you live?
17:18<SmatZ>answer before question
17:18<planetmaker>hihi :-)
17:19<planetmaker>might take a bit from your place...
17:19<planetmaker>but would be pretty cool :-)
17:19<SmatZ>ok, about 450kms for me, fine :)
17:19<planetmaker>ui, I suspected more
17:19<TrueBrain>it is funny that going to somewhere in germany from germany can be so expensive .. in the netherlands, at most it would cost 35 euros I believe
17:19<TrueBrain>I wonder if I should ask DarkVater to join :p
17:20<planetmaker>TrueBrain: distances are bigger :-)
17:20<TrueBrain>lol, and at that moment I see him come online at MSN :p
17:20<TrueBrain>how amusing :)
17:22<planetmaker>then go for it, TrueBrain
17:23<Zuu>Going by ferry I'll get down to about 100 euro in total, given that rostock train station is somewhat close to the ferry terminal.
17:24<planetmaker>I still wonder if I should make a public thread. I guess: why not. It's anyway more people than can sleep in my flat, I think, already :-)
17:24<__ln__>Zuu: still one-way?
17:24<TrueBrain>Zuu: even if it is not, it doesn't change the price :p
17:24<Zuu>__ln__: two-way
17:24<TrueBrain>planetmaker: that is true; and if too many people come, you will need to find some place for us somewhere nearby :p
17:24<TrueBrain>ghehe :p
17:24<planetmaker>I count 12 so far
17:25<TrueBrain>4 dutch, right?
17:25<planetmaker>TB, Rb, Yx, Alberth and maybe Hirundo
17:26<planetmaker>maybe Xaroth, but I guess we can dismiss him ;-)
17:26<TrueBrain>I am sure if you put it on the forum, more people will come (if not much more)
17:26<TrueBrain>although it is short-term planning, so :p
17:26<planetmaker>yes, I suspect that'll be the case
17:26<SmatZ>hmm he's not here
17:26<SmatZ>@seen V453000
17:26<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: V453000 was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 29 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <V453000> dont use sound ^^
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17:27<planetmaker>SmatZ: other universe
17:27<TrueBrain>planetmaker: but it is your party, so ;)
17:27<SmatZ>planetmaker: do you think there are more disjoint universes?
17:27<TrueBrain>let me know how many people will come, and I will take care of the cake :p
17:27<TrueBrain>SmatZ: why disjoint?
17:27<planetmaker>TrueBrain: that amount of people can have a BBQ or so still :-)
17:27<SmatZ>TrueBrain: if they were joint, it would be one universe I think :)
17:27<TrueBrain>oeh, a BBQ sounds like a VERY nice idea
17:27<planetmaker>SmatZ: that's an oxymoron
17:28<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well, it can be non-disjoint and not joint ;)
17:28<planetmaker>uni-verse = all-embracing ;-)
17:28<SmatZ>oh :)
17:28<TrueBrain>like [1,2,3] and [3,4,5] ;)
17:28<Xaroth>planetmaker: I'm not going.
17:29<SmatZ>TrueBrain: that's hard to imagine, at least for me :)
17:29<planetmaker>meh :-(
17:29<TrueBrain>SmatZ: well, there are good reasons to believe there is some interaction between other universes and ours
17:29<TrueBrain>well, within certain theories of parallel universes at least :p
17:29*SmatZ never heard of such theories
17:30<__ln__>who's going to invite mr. B?
17:30<SmatZ>maybe in sci-fi movies :)
17:30<planetmaker>__ln__: you mean the dolphin?
17:30<planetmaker>he has a standing invitation at my place
17:30<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I am too hangover to come up with the names, but the current theories say there should be parallel universes :p
17:30<TrueBrain>I think he would be crazy enough to come :p
17:30<planetmaker>TrueBrain: may I doubt that?
17:31<__ln__>i'm not familiar with the concept of the dolphin. :)
17:31<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you may. I am trying to come up with the name ... I fail :p
17:31<planetmaker>__ln__: then I don't know whom you mean with Mr B
17:31<__ln__>planetmaker: the danish one
17:32<TrueBrain>Copenhagen interpretation :)
17:32<SmatZ>danish Mr. B. ?
17:32<TrueBrain>I browsed all cities before I found it ;)
17:32<planetmaker>@seen Bjarni
17:32<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Bjarni> <-- wtf. Some rich guy built a trebuchet and uses burning pianos as ammo
17:32<TrueBrain>SmatZ: I think they mean the one from Canada
17:32<SmatZ>@seen anyone_danish
17:32<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen anyone_danish.
17:32<SmatZ>TrueBrain: ok then :)
17:32<planetmaker>TrueBrain: I thought of the canada one, yes
17:32<Terkhen>good night
17:33<SmatZ>good night, Terkhen
17:33<TrueBrain>night Terkhen
17:33<TrueBrain>where does Terkhen live?
17:33<SmatZ>btw, is Terkhen coming?
17:33<planetmaker>night Terkhen . Got travel plans for 19 June?
17:33<+glx>TrueBrain: south from me :)
17:33<__ln__>he kind of said 'no' earlier
17:33<planetmaker>oh :-(
17:34<__ln__>23:14 < Terkhen> __ln__: too much for a student's economy... besides, I'll probably be working
17:34<TrueBrain>planetmaker: was the Copenhagen interpertation not the most accepted interperation of quantum mechanics atm?
17:34<planetmaker>right, thx
17:35<planetmaker>TrueBrain: it's just different sides of the medal. Neither is wrong nor right.
17:35<planetmaker>Just different ways of looking at hte same thing
17:35<TrueBrain>either way, it depends on the existance of many worlds
17:35<planetmaker>no :-)
17:35<planetmaker>quantum mechanics doesn't require that afaik
17:35<TrueBrain>copenhagen does
17:36<TrueBrain>it in fact defines the probability of observing one path in it
17:36<planetmaker>probabilities of something happening don't require it to happen in another complementary universe
17:36<TrueBrain>but okay, many-world interpertation is more about 1 universe which splits, then multiple universes
17:37<Zuu>night folks
17:37<TrueBrain>night Zuu
17:37<planetmaker>night Zuu
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17:37<planetmaker>hm... I like the BBQ idea in my backyard :-)
17:37<TrueBrain>so, a BBQ it is
17:37<TrueBrain>if you want any financial compenstation, do let us know
17:37<planetmaker>Germans are infamous for their BBQ obsession
17:37<TrueBrain>or we should ask orudge for donation money :p
17:38<planetmaker>TrueBrain: bring some Duvel :-) Or ... hm, Alberth is from Eindhoven, right?
17:38<planetmaker>He could bring Hertog Jan ;-)
17:38<TrueBrain>haha, we will bring the Hertog Jans for you :p
17:38<SmatZ>for Terkhen
17:39<SmatZ>~100E , 19.6. - 21.6.
17:39<SmatZ>from Madrid to Frankfurt
17:39<__ln__>does anyone remember what part of Spain he's from?
17:39<SmatZ>nope :(
17:40<planetmaker>SmatZ: Frankfurt might not be the best destination within Germany, though
17:40<planetmaker>it's quite some distance to there
17:40<TrueBrain>can anyone advise a mediaplayer? (720p)
17:40<planetmaker>TrueBrain: but I'll think about how we deal with all the food I'll have to get :-)
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17:41<TrueBrain>yeah, just let us know; I am sure most of us don't mind to chip in a few bucks
17:41<SmatZ>planetmaker: for some reason, I can't search for flights to Hannover
17:41<__ln__>SmatZ: did you try spelling it Hanover
17:42<planetmaker>SmatZ: then Berlin would be better. Yeah, English is Hanover. They spell it wrong
17:43<SmatZ> Hanover, ~200E :-/
17:48<TrueBrain>either way, night all
17:48<SmatZ>good night to you, TrueBrain :)
17:49<planetmaker>hm, I should go, too :-)
17:49<planetmaker>have a good night folks :-)
17:49<SmatZ>good night to you too, planetmaker :)
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18:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... triple posting is maybe not the best idea...
18:06*SmatZ isn't here to judge you
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18:17<ccfreak2k>You'd better Hanover your wallet!
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>... take your feet up... flat joke coming...
18:20<__ln__>175 Jahre Eisenbahn in Deutschland
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18:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, 1835
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18:39<__ln__>insane prices... 98 euros one-way for helsinki-rostock for a *seat*. not even a cabin.
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>aren't you on the way for a whole day like that? :p
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>by helsinki-rostock i presume you mean ferry
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>not sure how you get from rostock to braunschweig, though...
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>braunschweig is on an east-west line (berlin-magdeburg-braunschweig-hannover), how you approach that from the north i don't know
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>by the looks of it, they send you via berlin
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>if you take only regional trains, you go Rostock-Schwerin-Wittenberge-Stendal-Braunschweig (3 transfers)
18:58<__ln__>in any case, doesn't make sense to pay 200€ just for the ferry, as the flight to hannover is "only" 293€.
18:58<__ln__>both ways
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>that is probably the least populated area in germany :p
18:59<__ln__>the ferry also takes something like 27 hours one-way :/
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19:00<Eddi|zuHause>train goes every 2 hours, if you arrive after 17:00, you won't make it for that day ;)
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19:04<__ln__>whatever the method, i think arriving on the german soil one day earlier is necessary
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>this is totally weird... they send you Rostock-Bad Kleinen-Lübeck-Hamburg-Bremen[spend the night (1:30-4:30) here]-Hannover-Braunschweig :p
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>5 transfers ;)
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>about 60€
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>can't use weekend ticket, because you wuld need two of them
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19:24<@orudge>[16:37:45] <TrueBrain> or we should ask orudge for donation money :p <-- only if you hold it here in Minneapolis ;)
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: if the donation money is good for 20ish plane tickets from and to europe :p
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>and i heard they now take "entrance fee" for the USA, like it's a fun park :p
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19:28<@orudge>no "entrance fee" as far as I'm aware
19:29<@orudge>maybe as part of other taxes
19:29<@orudge>but that's not uncommon for other countries
19:29<@orudge>and, well, perhaps not 20, no, unless you all fit yourselves into each others' luggage :p
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19:38<Eddi|zuHause> talks about a discussion in the senate to charge 10 dollar by every visa-free visitor (mostly europeans visiting for less than 90 days)
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19:44<potrzebie>Hi! I have a bunch of trains, each one with a few coal cars and a few goods cars, going between two stations. I transfer the coal at one of the stations and take cargo (goods), but the coal I just transfered is picked up again :/ Can I solve this with the load/unload/etc-buttons or will I need a extra station?
19:46<Yexo>either you need to make all trains only carry one cargo type (only coal or goods) or you need 2 stations
19:47<potrzebie>I see.
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19:54<potrzebie>A setting for "don't pick up what you've just unloaded" would be a very helpful feature :)
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20:07<Eddi|zuHause>potrzebie: that suggestion pops up every now and then, but it's just an unusable solution
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>potrzebie: imagine 3 cities A,B,C with bus service city<->airport and 3 airlines A<->B, B<->C and C<->A, each airline has orders "transfer and don't load cargo again you just unloaded"... still passengers can circle A->B->C->A this way
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20:10<Eddi|zuHause>potrzebie: the only real solution is cargo destinations, but the current implementations of that are not stable enough yet
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20:26<potrzebie>Eddi|zuHause: Isn't it unusable only when the cargo is the same to drop off and pick up, like passengers?
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>potrzebie: yes. but passengers is the most common use case of transfers by far.
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20:32<potrzebie>I see. So the ultimate solution, cargo destination, is coming in a near future?
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20:38<Ammler>maybe :-)
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---Logclosed Mon May 17 00:00:40 2010