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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-05-28

---Logopened Fri May 28 00:00:05 2010
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01:38<capeguy_2>Anyone there?
01:38<capeguy_2>!help
01:38<capeguy_2>..
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03:44<Mazur>No, I'm here.
03:45<Mazur>Not there.
03:45<borgfish>
03:45<Mazur>Hø, hó.
03:46<borgfish>°°
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05:18<planetmaker>moin
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05:30<Terkhen>good morning
05:35<Illegal_Alien>Morning? Its almost that other part of the day :P
05:35<planetmaker>still half an hour to go ;-)
05:40<Illegal_Alien>15 minutes here
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05:44<sparr>that other part? prevening?
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06:06<Terkhen>good afternoon
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06:49<borgfish>can someone tell by what city growth is limited ? i got like 420k in there and its not growing anymore
06:50<planetmaker>I got like 1.2 million
06:50<planetmaker>but it depends upon which (if any) house newgrf used
06:50<planetmaker>when a city builds something it can either replace an existing house or expand.
06:51<planetmaker>the ratio of rim tiles vs. tiles within the town gets smaller the bigger a city gets. Thus growth will slow down quite naturally
06:51<borgfish>well there is no newgrf.
06:51<borgfish>okay
06:52-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:52<borgfish>and if it has small cities arround it obviously cant grow into them.
06:52-!-lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c344.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:52<borgfish>but is not stopped genreally from growing arround ?
06:55-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
07:14<borgfish>another question
07:14<borgfish>i set "same_industry_close" but it still spawns alot of oil riggs
07:14<borgfish>its too many of them
07:14<borgfish>any other value ?
07:14<borgfish>and is there a train lenght limit value for the mammoth train setting ?
07:15<borgfish>i would love it to be like 14 instead of 8
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08:32<Clark_Lawson>!password
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09:06<@Belugas>hello
09:07<planetmaker>hello Belugas
09:07<@Belugas>sir planetmaker :)
09:08<Alberth>hello planetmaker
09:08<planetmaker>hello Alberth :-)
09:08<Alberth>Belugas: how are you doing?
09:09<Alberth>hmm, my system doesn't know the time any more :(
09:09*planetmaker gives Alberth 15h and 10 minutes
09:09<planetmaker>:-P
09:10<planetmaker>Alberth, let it retreive time via ntp services :-)
09:11<@Belugas>Alberth, i;m fine, thanks. just in a rush as usual...
09:11<@Belugas>i've got a certification on-site in about 20 minutes
09:11*Alberth starts the ntp service
09:11<@Belugas>and a few other projects almost simultaqenously
09:11<@Belugas>ntp?
09:11<eper>network time protocol
09:11<planetmaker>network time protocol
09:11<eper>jinx
09:12<@Belugas>ha.. eayh
09:12<Alberth>yeah, last friday of the month
09:12<planetmaker>Alberth, you start the service or connect to it? :-P
09:12<planetmaker>ntp.alberth.nl :-P
09:12<planetmaker>Friday afternoon sillyness
09:13<Alberth>planetmaker: I expect the system to sort out itself now :p
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09:14<planetmaker>:-)
09:15<Alberth>the bios got messed up, I think. On boot, I also got the message that the case was opened.
09:16<planetmaker>uh... probably old battery
09:17<planetmaker>you might consider to replace it :-)
09:18<@Belugas>if ever it's still possible
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09:23*andythenorth considers trying civ 4
09:25<planetmaker>consider the time it'll eat ;-)
09:27*Belugas considers... working
09:27*Belugas considers his mug of coffee
09:27*Belugas looks at the kitchen and wonders if he feels like walking up to there for a refill
09:28<Alberth>do you rather work, or refill your mug?
09:28<planetmaker>there might be pre-conditions to be considered
09:29<planetmaker>like optimising the net-gain function
09:29*SpComb considers svn committing
09:30<planetmaker>if work/time ~ coffee, it might well be worth to consider coffee. As zero coffee would result in zero work
09:30<@Belugas>Alberth, i've asked a colleague to refill for me :D
09:30<planetmaker>:-D
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10:18<Lapsus>Hello! :3
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10:35<planetmaker>hello
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11:37<DJ_Nekkid>hi guys ...
11:37<DJ_Nekkid>here is a very stupid question, but still ... What is the height of a tile (in px)
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11:40<planetmaker>8px, DJ_Nekkid
11:40<planetmaker>or you mean of a flat tile the y height?
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11:40<planetmaker>on the screen?
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11:43<DJ_Nekkid>on the screen
11:43<DJ_Nekkid>from one level to another
11:43<DJ_Nekkid>how many px is that
11:44<planetmaker>IIRC it says 8 px between two height levels
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11:45<DJ_Nekkid>oki :)
11:45<DJ_Nekkid>ty mate
11:46<planetmaker>http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html <--there
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13:27<@Belugas>toum te de le de le doum
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13:29<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i don't get xkcd
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19900 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 24 changes by ElNounch
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 10 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 8 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: irish - 69 changes by tem
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14:04<@Belugas>sometimes, i don't get coffee
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>that's a huge problem, obviously
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>you should work on that
14:15<lennard>sudo make me a sandwich
14:15-!-TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>you're not a sudoer
14:16<Alberth>not in this channel anyway :)
14:22<Alberth>Belugas: I can make you a cup of tea, or is that not strong enough for you?
14:23<Alberth>lennard: nobody outside the unix community will understand that joke
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14:24<planetmaker>The linux community is strong within here ;-)
14:24<@Belugas>Alberth, in case of extreme limit, i MIGHT appreciate a cup of tea
14:24<lennard>well, some of the math people might recognize it
14:24<Alberth>the force is strong here :)
14:25<@Belugas>note: iced tea is wonderfull ;)
14:25<@Belugas>how strong?
14:26<Alberth>I tend to have very light tea, but I can make your cup stronger :)
14:29<planetmaker>You could bring Vla ;-)
14:33*Alberth hands Belugas a hot cup of green tea
14:33<Alberth>there you go, plenty of caffeine :)
14:34<lennard>theine
14:34<@Belugas>meunoum meunoum!
14:34<@Belugas>lennard, who cares, as long as it gets right "ein"
14:34<@Belugas>buwhahahha
14:36<Alberth>lennard: sure: http://www.amazing-green-tea.com/green-tea-caffeine.html
14:36*Eddi|zuHause is fairly confident that Belugas really got mad now :p
14:36<Alberth>friday afternoon, what do you expect ;)
14:37<Alberth>he smells weekend :D
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>why are you at work that late on fridays anyway?
14:37<Alberth>at the other side of the big pond? sure :)
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14:39*frosch123 considered working a half day stupid. it is a whole lost day
14:40<@Belugas>hehehe :)
14:41<@Belugas>THIS friday is so crazy that i've gone mad just by looking at my workload
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14:47<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so you don't go to work on fridays? :p
14:47<frosch123>i'm not working for volkswagen
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15:10<andythenorth>evening
15:11<Alberth>good evening andythenorth
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15:26<__ln__>http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/28/autonomous-quadrocopter-flies-through-windows-straight-into-our/
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15:52<@Belugas>1:08 minutes still to ENDUUUUUURE!
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>and i need to get up early...
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16:16<@Belugas>20h15. 26 secomds or so in GMT?
16:16<@Belugas>UTC
16:17<Alberth>sounds about right
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>only nobody is in that time zone actually ;)
16:18<@peter1138>bloody time zones
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the icelandics
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>i heard they shut down their aircraft inhibitor
16:22<@Belugas>time zones bloodying me quite madly
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16:50<Wizzleby>Rubidium: (much belated response) AFAIK, 0.7.3 was gone from the tree by the time 0.7.5 was hardmasked. As it is currently, 1/2 of the arches needing to act on openttd-1.0.1 stabilization have done so. So FWIW, I think that things are not as bad as you suggest. I've been doing as much as I can currently to smooth things over between you folks and the gentoo devs, so, its not as if no-one cares.
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16:56<@Rubidium>Wizzleby: my point was that for 4 months they can live with a security issue which can be trivially exploited *without* modified binaries
16:57<Wizzleby>Rubidium: and my point is, since I've started trying to smooth things over, that has changed
16:57<@Rubidium>but now..., after 0.7.5 got stabilised, they hardmask it
16:57<Wizzleby>only two packages remain for arch teams to act on until 1.0.1 is entirely stablized
16:57<Wizzleby>its still sub-optimal, that I will readily admit, but its better than when we first discussed the issue
16:58<@Rubidium>Wizzleby: the hardmasking on itself isn't my big problem, just their seemingly stupid reasons for (not) doing it
16:58<Wizzleby>Rubidium: To which I pose no argument. I can't account for that, all I can do is attempt to rectify the situation
16:58*Belugas gets the fuck-outta-heeeeere
16:58<@Belugas>bye bye all
16:58<@Rubidium>have a nice weekend Belugas
16:58<Wizzleby>Take care
16:59<@Belugas>i will i will i will!!!
16:59<Zuu>bye Belugas
16:59*Belugas is gone
17:00<@Rubidium>Wizzleby: it just shows me there is no proper process for handling security issues in Gentto
17:00<@Rubidium>s/tto/too/
17:01<Wizzleby>Rubidium: there is, they just don't give a rat's arse about games security bugs (which is an issue I am aware of, and eventually aim on helping also). If it was not a game, they'd be much more responsive, which is silly I agree.
17:06<@Rubidium>Wizzleby: but if they don't care, they shouldn't hardmask either
17:06<@Rubidium>but then... Gentoo has had a hand in seeing major issues in basically non-issues and no issue with the real issue
17:08<Wizzleby>Rubidium: they didn't hardmask. mr bones did at my request
17:08<Wizzleby>after I informed him of the nature of the vulnerabilities
17:09<@Rubidium>e.g. a theoretically possible buffer overflow, only possible when using a custom language file with a string of > 2000 bytes, is seen as serious enough to actually make the effort to create a CVE record (why do that if you don't care?). And when you can possibly remotely execute code / a definite remotely exploitable buffer overflow isn't cared about.
17:10<Wizzleby>Rubidium: we're on the same page that security issues related to games are not handled well. All I can do is put the same devotion towards fixing that as I have to addressing your concerns about how openttd is handled by us, which may take time, but is not something I intend to give up on
17:10<@Rubidium>still... the 0.7.5 issue is definitely a magnitude worse than any of the 1.0.1 issues
17:11<Wizzleby>FWIW, it seems that when I applied that effort, things moved, which is at least better than them not moving.
17:11<@Rubidium>so "basically" (assuming packages aren't removed automatically) you'll leave people with 0.7.3 which is security wise worse than 0.7.5
17:12<@Rubidium>but yes, getting some movement in the repository is good
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17:14<Wizzleby>yes, currently, x86 and amd64 users will not see any openttd upgrade path until the x86 and amd64 teams stable the remaining two packages: opengfx and openttd. Its sad that ppc and ppc64 Arch Teams beat them to the punch, but if they don't have it addressed by tomorrow, i'm going to start asking them about it
17:14<@Rubidium>Wizzleby: 0.7.5 took 4 months for amd64
17:15<Wizzleby>Rubidium: yeah, but catcodec only took them 1d. I'm giving them 2 till i start poking
17:15<@Rubidium>hmm, even more like 5 months
17:15<@Rubidium>catcodec is (almost) extremely trivial
17:16<Wizzleby>They also reacted promptly for: grfcodec, nforenum, opensfx, and opengfx
17:16<Wizzleby>I'm not sure what the hold up is for openttd and gfxcodec, but the others were prompt
17:18<@Rubidium>I'm wondering whether there's some sort of proces for checking which packages have requested stabilisation for a particular architecture
17:19<Wizzleby>There is. Without actually discussing it with the amd64 AT, I can't speculate as to why they were so slow about openttd-0.7.5, but I intend to ask when I get the chance
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17:21<b_jonas>heh
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17:23<Wizzleby>Part of it could be a big queue, I'm seeing ~96 open STABLEREQ bugs addressed to the amd64 arch team
17:23<Wizzleby>Their roster looks fairly small for handling such a widely used arch
17:23<Wizzleby>roster of team members that is
17:23<@Rubidium>also, in theory at least, should be supportable on all platforms it supports; Debian has a compiled version for each of those architectures and I've never heard about any problems with it
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17:27<Wizzleby>Well, yeah. And I know for a fact that it is more than ready for stabilization on those two arches (which I actually use regularly). Each AT is composed of different folks though, and alas some seem faster to act than others. I will say that in general, the Gentoo ATs are understaffed, which has lead to a general lag into what gets a stable keyword
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17:28<Wizzleby>Also that discussion has been going around the developer MLs on how to address when an AT is slow to respond over such stable requests as the ones we are discussing
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18:14<Jezekus>Hello
18:15<Jezekus>I'm little bit confused by generating random map when starting new dedicated server. It always results in same shape of map.
18:17<Noldo>change the seed
18:17<Jezekus>I did in cfg and also by parameter -G
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18:28<@Rubidium>Jezekus: how do you generate the new map? By "restart"?
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18:29<Jezekus>Rubidium, yes
18:29<@Rubidium>there's your problem; restart is meant to start the same map again
18:29<@Rubidium>use newgame
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18:29<@Rubidium>or new_game
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18:30<Jezekus>Rubidium: ok so I have to login to rcon a do a newgame
18:32<Jezekus>Rubidium: it looks like that it worked, thanks
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---Logclosed Sat May 29 00:00:07 2010