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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-05-31

---Logopened Mon May 31 00:00:09 2010
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00:32<SmatZ>morning
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02:27<Terkhen>good morning
02:28<ptr>morning
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05:12<Desrik>how often does the server list on openttd.org update?
05:13<andythenorth>morning
05:13<Desrik>ok thx
05:13<Markk>Isn't it more often?
05:14<Desrik>i know the server list is updated on refresh but the actual game stats are less frequent
05:14<Desrik>and im assuming that if my server shows up on that list then people will be able to connect?
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05:42<__ln__>http://kotaku.com/5550627/if-lucasarts-had-made-a-lost-gamein-1987/gallery/
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06:14*andythenorth ponders transport giant
06:17<peter1138>nooooo!
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06:31<andythenorth>peter1138: nice industry renders though :P
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06:41<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it says "you don't have the fucking registry keys! idiot!"
06:46<peter1138>that's nice
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07:44*andythenorth blew up the game :P
07:45<ptr>are you still looking for a Mac developer?
07:45<ptr> /maintainer
07:45<__ln__>i guess so
07:45<planetmaker>there's none so far
07:45<planetmaker>only words
07:46<ptr>hm, okay
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07:48<ptr>I'm a developer, and I know stuff about Macs. I might be willing to contribute; but I need to do some more research into the code base etc before deciding
07:49<__ln__>Ever compiled a Universal Binary?
07:49<planetmaker>I guess the decision is rather done by doing than by "I want to"
07:50<planetmaker>So if you consider it, consider fixing some of the OSX-related issues.
07:50<ptr>__ln__: heh yea
07:50<planetmaker>universal on 10.6 != universal on 10.4
07:51<planetmaker>the first is only i386 and x64 while the latter is ppc, i386 and x64
07:51<andythenorth>ptr: if you can actually achieve something you'll get our sincere thanks :) However quite a few people have offered to maintain the port then failed, so we're a bit jaded by the mac issue :o
07:51<andythenorth>(posted from OS X)
07:51<ptr>yeah that's why I'm a bit hesitant :)
07:52<planetmaker>don't talk. Try and come back when you think you succeed in having gotten somewhere :-)
07:52<ptr>fair enough
07:52<ptr>is there a bug reporting software of some kind? with tasks that need to be done, etc?
07:52<planetmaker>Of course, getting advice on the road on a decision whether approach a or approach b is better - that's always feasable :-)
07:52<planetmaker>bugs.openttd.org
07:52<planetmaker>search for osx
07:53<ptr>"Game crashes when full screen is selected" :-)
07:53<__ln__>Some volunteers have been clearly incompetent...
07:53<planetmaker>hehe. yeah
07:54<planetmaker>ptr, the problem with many of those issues is: they happen with some hardware, with some OS version, but not all
07:54<ptr>__ln__: how so?
07:54<ptr>planetmaker: fun stuff
07:54<planetmaker>yeah. Otherwise it'd be easy actually.
07:54<planetmaker>But I'm not competent enough to fix stuff I cannot reproduce.
07:54<__ln__>One guy released an OS X binary with the copyrighted TTD files, for example. (Right?)
07:55<planetmaker>yeah
07:55<ptr>wow
07:56<__ln__>ptr: see this, if you haven't already: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2782
07:56<ptr>still, there are a couple of feature requests for os x
07:57<planetmaker>well. The CJK characters might be a feature request - but it's something the other platforms supply
07:57<planetmaker>In my perception that's the easiest issue to implement
07:57<__ln__>ptr: ignore #3447 though, it's completely irrelevant
07:57<planetmaker>yes, mostly
07:58<planetmaker>It's mainly to prove a point ;-)
07:58<planetmaker>#3648 most probably is not an OpenTTD issue but a coreaudio issue.
07:58<planetmaker>but still
07:59<planetmaker>playing it in the midi player / quicktime without openttd, it doesn't crash
07:59<ptr>__ln__: yea SDL isn't used anymore, right?
07:59<planetmaker>3651 - no idea. Doesn't happen for me
07:59<planetmaker>ptr, it's not the default video driver. It still can be configured.
07:59<planetmaker>Read the report. That's what I did there. On purpose. To prove that SDL is no alternative
07:59<__ln__>ptr: it hasn't been used for about 5 years on OS X.
08:00<planetmaker>or rather that it has at least as many issues as cocoa and providing a native port
08:01<planetmaker>2585 - nice bug. I can reproduce it. partially. But alas... mind the blitter being used
08:02<__ln__>The "Port hopelessly updated" bug has 5 open bugs, 1 of which is irrelevant, 1 of which is hard to reproduce, 1 which is a feature request... 2 left.
08:03<planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=osx&project=1&search_name= has more OSX than 4
08:04<planetmaker>I count 3 real bugs, 1 missing feature, two feature requests and one semi-bug (=SDL)
08:05<ptr>so where would I start? It seems the OS X port is kinda working
08:05<planetmaker>start whereever you want
08:06<ptr>alright, I'll see if I manage to even build it all. :)
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08:13<andythenorth>ptr: it should build fine....I have no compiling knowledge and I build my own for 10.5. It 'just works'
08:14<ptr>thanks, I never look forward to compiling a new project
08:14<ptr>heh
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08:38<Eddi|zuHause>hm... our president resigns...
08:38<__ln__>what does the king say about that?
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08:39<planetmaker>ups?!
08:39<planetmaker>that's a surprise indeed.
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08:41<Eddi|zuHause>i believe that's the first resignation of a german head of state since 1918
08:41<planetmaker>at least since 1945
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>that wasn't really a "resignation" ;)
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08:42<Eddi|zuHause>"fun fact": all of these were war related ;)
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08:50<Eddi|zuHause>what are the current majorities in the "Bundesversammlung" nowadays?
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>NRW government still undecided, possibility of "Ampel" (red/yellow/green) returns
08:53-!-llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>(although that's still a very vague possibility)
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08:59<SmatZ>was Hitler a president?
09:01<__ln__>godwin's law!
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>that's a little diffuse... theoretically he was chancellor
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause>hindenburg was president, until he died
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>and the post was not reassigned
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there were regulations on who takes up for the president... currently that's the "Bundesratspräsident", i'm not sure how similar that is to the old rules
09:06<Beklugas>hello
09:06-!-Beklugas is now known as Belugas
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>"Das Kabinett Hitler setzte schon am 1. August, also dem Tag vor Hindenburgs Tod, eine Volksabstimmung über die Zusammenlegung des Amtes des Reichskanzlers und des Reichspräsidenten in der Person des „Führers“ Hitler für den 19. August 1934 an."
09:08<@Rubidium>isn't this one war related too?
09:09<planetmaker>there was no war at that time
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09:11<Eddi|zuHause>there was no resignation either...
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09:12<__ln__>in finland a law like the one that allowed Hitler to gain power was approved just a few weeks ago.
09:12<planetmaker>:-O
09:15<__ln__>someone in the parliament pointed out the Hitler fact, and others said it's absurd to compare nazis and finnish politicians of the 2000's
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09:29<planetmaker>it's only as long absurd as no one's abusing it.
09:29-!-TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:29<__ln__>exactly
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10:02<zachanima>any current cargodist+iss patches? =3
10:02<planetmaker>not more current cargodist than is running on our dev server
10:03<planetmaker>infrastructure sharing: no
10:03<planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist/g17340e3e
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10:04<zachanima>sounds nice though
10:04<zachanima>thanks
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10:19<Sacro>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1705008/simple-proof-that-guid-is-not-unique
10:22<zachanima>has ISS died by the way?
10:22<peter1138>international space station?
10:22<zachanima>Infrastructure Sharing
10:23<zachanima>I was of the impression that was the de facto abbreviation
10:24<PeterT>IS.
10:24<PeterT>or IS2
10:24<zachanima>aha
10:24<PeterT>zachanima: it's not died
10:24<PeterT>we run a server
10:24<PeterT>at #jolteon
10:24<zachanima>hmm
10:24<zachanima>I was thinking development of it
10:24<PeterT>oh
10:24<PeterT>Hirundo: has is2 died?
10:25<PeterT>zachanima: somewhat
10:25<planetmaker>mostly.
10:26<planetmaker>Missing some good ideas for a few issues.
10:26<zachanima>hmm
10:26<zachanima>I see
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10:30<Hirundo>PeterT: Consider it to be in hibernation
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10:31<PeterT>ok :-)
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10:38<planetmaker>hibernation sounds much more positive ;-)
10:39<PeterT>hehe
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10:50<ccfreak2k>IS++
10:51<PeterT>ccfreak2k++
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---Logclosed Mon May 31 11:12:01 2010
---Logopened Mon May 31 12:36:38 2010
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13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r19913 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt:
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: czech - 12 changes by Hadez
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14:17<__ln__>long term support: http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_Fixes_Bug_On_Voyager_2_999.html
14:19<SpComb>I wouldn't want to hit the reset button on something 13 light-hours away
14:21-!-Lapsus_ is now known as Lapsus
14:22<Noldo_>on site
14:28<SpComb>they should have opted for the remote-hands service
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14:51<NGP>How do i buy like a flight or a bus ?
14:53<Noldo_>airplanes are bought from hangars and busses from road vehicle depot
14:54<__ln__>*buses
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14:54<NGP>Do i need to built a hangar, have already built a airport ?
14:55<NGP>got i now
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15:02<NGP>If i start my own game, will i then need to ad computerplayers or will they just come
15:03<__ln__>de kommer automatiskt om du inte disablerar datorspelare.
15:03<PeterT>English only
15:04<PeterT>:-P
15:04<__ln__>it's almost english.
15:04<PeterT>you're almost english.
15:05<ptr>lök
15:05<NGP>any idea of how long it will take
15:06<planetmaker>NGP: it depends upon how you set it...
15:07<b_jonas>NGP: you have to set them up in the dialogs when you start the game, and, before that, in the AI settings dialog of the main menu
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15:07<b_jonas>NGP: it does take some time for them to launch so even if you have set everything up correctly you may have to wait a few years for them to appear
15:07<b_jonas>depeding on the settings
15:10<b_jonas>NGP: if you've never played TT before, and don't understand how building transport lines work, you may want to look at http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial
15:16<PeterT>somebody is hosting a cargodist is2 server using ipv6 D:
15:17<peter1138>heh
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15:18*PeterT is stubborn and will try to connect anywy
15:18<PeterT>anway*
15:18<PeterT>fail.
15:18<PeterT>anyway*
15:24<__ln__>PeterT: English only
15:24<PeterT>but, but...I was speaking american english!
15:25<NGP>Have played the very old tt and locomotion and this is just a little different
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15:26<NGP>when new companies start up the keep going bankrupt
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15:31<NGP>Why do new companies go bankrupt when starting up ?
15:31<PeterT>because the players suck
15:32<b_jonas>they don't go bankrupt for me, but then I'm playing on not too hard difficulty now, and I'm getting rich too fast as well
15:32<NGP>okay thx
15:35<Wasila>It's easy to avoid bankruptcy
15:35<Wasila>Just always leave 10k or so to borrow in case of an emergency
15:38<NGP>no matter what i do the other players keep going bankrupt, anyone who have an idea for me what to do ?
15:38<Lapsus>NGP: Send them money :D
15:40<NGP>i dont even get to see them start up before a get a message about they are bankrupt
15:42<Lapsus>increase the max loan to $1000000?
15:42<Lapsus>or 500000 pounds, or whatever the equivalent is in your favourite currency
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15:45<b_jonas>next game I'll play with more difficult settings. I guess I only set it easy for this game because this is my first in openttd.
15:45<b_jonas>it's only 1983 and I'm buying the staues now
15:53<b_jonas>I'll have to learn how to do passenger transportation. Even in ttd and ttdpatch I do goods and oil transport much better, and do the passenger trains in a bit ad hoc way, so I feel like I could improve a lot.
15:53<b_jonas>What's the secret to transporting passengers (either with train or with airplane)?
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16:17<b_jonas>is it worth to make the passenger train station and airport a single station to maintain a higher rating?
16:18<planetmaker>depends upon how you use it.
16:23<b_jonas>on one hand, I'm happy high bridges and extended building under bridges is enabled in the release, because that will help me cross these ai roads here.
16:23<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r19914 /trunk/ (19 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: Wrap a helper class around temporary assignments of _current_company to ensure proper restoration.
16:23<b_jonas>on the other hand, it makes me sad too because I guess it means that signals on bridges won't be easy to implement
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16:55<NGP>how do i sell a part of my company ?
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16:58<Belugas>you cannot
16:59<NGP>sad
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17:02<planetmaker>why would you need that, NGP ? It's a game about transport. Not about stocks etc pp
17:02<Belugas>he nesds cash ;)
17:03<Belugas>needs
17:03<Belugas>not... that
17:03<Belugas>see you, i'm running home!
17:06<PeterT>Belugas :-)
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18:18<Eddi|zuHause>hm... possible scenario: if they choose the ministerpresident of Nordrhein-Westphalen Jürgen Rüttgers to become the new federal president, they could have an SPD-lead "great coalition" in NRW...
18:26<__ln__>according to wikipedia, it's "North Rhine-Westphalia"
18:31<planetmaker>in English. In German it's Nordrhein-Westfalen
18:32<planetmaker>English people spell differently many German place names
18:35<@Rubidium>Brunswick? :)
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18:44<Eddi|zuHause>the name "Ostfalen" disappeared over the centuries...
18:44<@Rubidium>planetmaker: have you heard about gcc's plans to drop objc++ support? That would effectively drop OpenTTD for Mac support with new compilers all-together :)
18:45<planetmaker>I haven't
18:45<planetmaker>that'd be... sad
18:45<planetmaker>why would they?
18:45<PeterT>I'm guessing it wouldn't be easy to use an older version of gcc?
18:46<@Rubidium>"The Obj-C++ front end is effectively unmaintained, and has virtually
18:46<@Rubidium>no serious users. I propose to remove it from GCC.
18:46<@Rubidium>http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2010-05/msg00387.html for more
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>and what about Obj-C?
18:47<@Rubidium>objc isn't such a hack as objc++
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>and would it be feasible to "downgrade" the mac specific parts to that language?
18:48<planetmaker>Not quite sure, but the API is in objc++ IIRC
18:48<planetmaker>but maybe it was only objc
18:49<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: not sure about that. The objc -> c++ "API" is abysmal at best.
18:49<@Rubidium>problem of objectc++ is multiple inheritance
18:50<@Rubidium>objc extends c; c++ extends c; objectc++ extends objc, c++
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how objc differs from c at all...
18:52<@Rubidium>[obj method: argument];
18:53<@Rubidium>that would be what is obj->method(argument); in C++
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19:12<__ln__>01:31 < planetmaker> in English. In German it's Nordrhein-Westfalen <-- which is not what Eddi wrote
19:13<planetmaker>he got it wrong ;-)
19:14<planetmaker>and ph and f can be pronounced the same in German. And sometimes the older script writes ph where nowadays we write f
19:14<planetmaker>Like Foto
19:14<Ammler>Stefan
19:15<__ln__>Schiphphphahrt
19:16<planetmaker>not that ;-)
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19:22<__ln__>I think that removal of ObjC++ from GCC thing pasted by Rubidium is a no-issue from OpenTTD's perspective.
19:24<__ln__>Because it most certainly will not be removed from Apple's version of GCC, and I doubt there's Obj-C++ code in OTTD that is not OSX-specific.
19:27<planetmaker>probably yeah
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i don't think i have ever seen a "double-ph" :p
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>ph is mostly in greek-derived words... but names are always somewhat special
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>the last spelling reform tried to replace a few "ph"s by "f"s
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't think "Filosofie" works that well :p
19:50<__ln__>doesn't look that bad
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19:59<Mazur>Schiphol
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20:00<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: what do you mean? it looks bloody awful...
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20:14<Eddi|zuHause>great, there's a new Terry Pratchett movie :)
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 01 00:00:12 2010