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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-06-21

---Logopened Mon Jun 21 00:00:35 2010
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03:03<dihedral>good morning ladies
03:08<Goulp>Kiss man
03:12<dihedral>Goulp: i think you nick looks pretty on ignore lists ^^
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04:09<planetmaker>moin
04:10<planetmaker>peter1138: concerning rail types: is it possible to allow also smooth snow transition under the (normal) rail track tiles?
04:10<planetmaker>I know that it's somewhat limited by the free space in the map array. But maybe there's a way around that? :-)
04:11<Eddi|zuHause>whole m7 is free for rail tiles ;)
04:14<@peter1138>well you can do it with maths
04:15<planetmaker>well. But I thought the point of overlays would be to be exactly that: don't care about the ground
04:15<@peter1138>hmm, right, it's the ground that needs it
04:16<planetmaker>thus I can't really without resorting to things which will look ugly one way or another
04:16<planetmaker>I'm sure SmatZ has a patch to that end somewhere
04:16<@peter1138>probably
04:17<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember a screenshot showing snow transition on rail tiles
04:17<@peter1138>i know he did one that created new sprites automatically
04:17<Eddi|zuHause>it was a while back, though
04:17<@peter1138>which was really quite ingenious
04:17<planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/snow_desert_r14280.diff
04:18<planetmaker>he might have updated it recently, though
04:18<@peter1138>anyway
04:18<planetmaker>I talked to him recently about this... but I don't recall the link he gave, whether this or another
04:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's what you have logfiles for ;)
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05:13<Ammler>good day all :-)
05:13<@peter1138>zomg, no newgrfs
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05:34<fjb>Moin
05:34<planetmaker>moin fjb
05:36<dihedral>pm - how was the weekend? :-)
05:36<Ammler>we missed you!
05:36<Rubidium>without you :)
05:37<planetmaker>^ && ^^
05:37<planetmaker>we had cake. We had fun. We had little sleep :-P
05:37<dihedral>^^
05:37<dihedral>sounds good :-D
05:38<Ammler>german weather is quite funny
05:38<Ammler>like someone pushed fastforward
05:39<planetmaker>:-)
05:39<dihedral>lol
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05:59<Eddi|zuHause>that's proof: everything is slower in switzerland :p
06:00<Ammler>well, I prefer the sunny part to be slower :-P
06:06<planetmaker>yeah, it was good that I got the tents :-)
06:14*peter1138 ponders committing his service interval patch
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06:18<Eddi|zuHause>grr... i have no clue how to do this... i tried everything: how do i set up a windows share for anonymous and password-free access?
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>on windows
06:25<FauxFaux>Turn on advanced and grant the "Everyone" group access to it.
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>i tried that, doesn't work
06:25<FauxFaux>Step 2: Panic.
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>when i try to access it (from linux) it still asks for username and password
06:26<FauxFaux>Did you try guest / no password?
06:26<FauxFaux>smbclient is pretty shit. It also has a -anon flag.
06:26<FauxFaux>Or an anonymoose user.
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>it used to work, but i moved the windows directory to another drive, and had to recreate the share
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>since then it doesn't work anymore
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>nothing changed on the linux side
06:28<FauxFaux>Make it work from a Windows machine first so you know it's not smbclient being terrible?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have a suitible windows machine available without restarting...
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06:32<Eddi|zuHause>it works for (some) other shares on the same computer, and on the windows side i can't see any differences
06:40<Rubidium>I bet there is some setting somewhere in the registry
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07:15<Rubidium>peter1138: what service interval patch are you talking about?
07:15<@peter1138>the patch i wrote the other day
07:16*fjb wondered the same.
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>feature request: notify if a vehicle missed its service interval more than twice
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>[e.g. by not finding a depot]
07:16<@peter1138>adds a drop down item to the vehicle list windows to mass-set it
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. if (current date) - (last service date) > 2*(service interval)
07:18<fjb>Service intervall by group?
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07:20<Eddi|zuHause>or similar calculation if service interval is in reliability, not in month...
07:23<@peter1138>suggestion: code it
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07:24<fjb>Why is the keep train length setting a company setting?
07:27<Yexo>what other kind of setting should it be?
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>a per-group-setting?
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>with a company default?
07:32<Eoin>FORZA DPR
07:33<fjb>Like Eddi|zuHausesaid. You can even set it in the group menu.
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09:01<@Belugas>hello
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09:19<fjb>Moin Belugas
09:24*peter1138 wonders if perhaps we need a progress bar on start up
09:25<@peter1138>or some way to quickly cache the information that's scanned
09:25<planetmaker>hm?
09:26<@peter1138>it's slow
09:26<planetmaker>hm, moderately
09:26<@peter1138>at least, until it's all in disk cache
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>it's starting to get _very_ slow
09:27<fjb>It started faster two years ago.
09:27<@peter1138>it's fast when it's read them all once already
09:27<@peter1138>but first time... urgh
09:28<Ammler>specially if you have the whole bananas content downloaded
09:28<@peter1138>114MB :s
09:28<@peter1138>just for content_download/data
09:29<@peter1138>clearly i just need faster disks :p
09:29<@peter1138>hmm, now
09:29<@peter1138>which idiot introduced all this scanning?
09:29<planetmaker>the question is: when do you want to do that?
09:29<planetmaker>you need to do it at one stage
09:30<@peter1138>(oh yeah, that was me...)
09:30-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd
09:30<@peter1138>planetmaker, for instance, my music player doesn't rescan all music files every time it starts up
09:30<planetmaker>but... if you know the base set(s) to use from the cfg, you might do the building of the file list in background even in a separate thread as it's then not time critical
09:30<@peter1138>but it doesn't know when things have changed
09:30<planetmaker>but I might then have no idea :-)
09:30<@peter1138>planetmaker, yeah, i tried that
09:30<@peter1138>planetmaker, it doesn't work
09:31<planetmaker>damn
09:31<@peter1138>first, you need to make the fileio system thread-safe
09:31<@peter1138>i've done that, but...
09:31<@peter1138>some things rely on the way it works currently
09:32<@peter1138>(more patches i have laying around ;))
09:33<planetmaker>:-)
09:34<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> but it doesn't know when things have changed <-- store filename, size and modification date in a special cache file, and rescan the file on accessing it?
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09:35<Eddi|zuHause>that way, you only have to scan the directories on startup, not the files themselves
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09:35<Eddi|zuHause>or only the new files
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09:36<Eddi|zuHause>the cache file must be version safe
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>for people who often switch between stable, nightly and branches/patches with a shared home-dir
09:37<@peter1138>heh
09:37<@peter1138>yes, filename & modification time is probably enough
09:58<Rubidium>XML!
09:59<planetmaker>html
09:59<planetmaker>dgl
09:59<Rubidium>html for data storage?
10:00<Rubidium>no idea what dgl is though
10:00<planetmaker>:-)
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10:03<@peter1138>could use sqlite ;p
10:03<Rubidium>nah, better use MSSQL
10:04<@peter1138>yeah
10:05<planetmaker>doesn't oracle have another, possibly more expensive one? ;-)
10:06<Rubidium>it has at least two
10:07<planetmaker>mysql and some other
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10:08<Ammler>mäh, annoying vuvuzelas
10:11*peter1138 ponders trying to make another company on openttdcoop public server
10:11*peter1138 mumbles about autoclean
10:12<Ammler>yeah, we set autoclean_unprotected to 1
10:12<Ammler>as they are quite likely missuesed from supid guys
10:12<@peter1138>i'm a stupid guY :(
10:13<Ammler>hehe, you said that already 2 times today :-P
10:14<@peter1138>did i?
10:14<Ammler>idiot and stupid
10:15<Ammler>but the stupid quys are more those who use the rich unpassworded company to flat the whole map or such things
10:15<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> mäh, annoying vuvuzelas <-- some TV channels tried to filter out the vuvuzela sound
10:15<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: SwissTV seems to fail on that :-(
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really effective
10:16<Rubidium>it's too bad not enough people did tear open their trachea by using it
10:16<@peter1138>simple solution is to not watch silly men kicking a ball around
10:16<Rubidium>although... as peter1138 suggested, not watching it is a better solution
10:16<FauxFaux>Women's football, on the other hand.
10:17<Ammler>I don't watch every game, else I would be used to it
10:17<+glx><@peter1138> simple solution is to not watch silly men kicking a ball around <-- especially when they wear a blue shirt
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>women who play football tend to look like men...
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see the fun there...
10:18<+glx>for rugby and handball, women are more violent than men
10:20<@peter1138>s/for rugby and handball, //
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: the vuvuzelas stay annoying even after 20 games...
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10:22<Eddi|zuHause>so... openttd "needs" a name for almost a month now, why has nobody changed it yet?
10:22<@peter1138>it does need a name
10:22<@peter1138>it's got one
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause>but there are these pressing concerns in there!
10:24<@peter1138>apparently we should be trying to increase market awareness
10:24<@peter1138>i'm not sure why
10:25<@orudge>we should call it OpenPeter1138.
10:28<Rubidium>we should call it "move"
10:28<Noldo_>yes!
10:30<@Belugas>I wonder what would happen if new name is found. Would everyone will stop playing since it's not a cool name? Will there be no more new patches coming in?
10:34<@Belugas>willthe devs be sued over refusal to let users enjoy the game with a name that will appease their brain?
10:34<@Belugas>...
10:34<@Belugas>gimme a fucking break...
10:34<planetmaker>please ask your wife for that
10:35<planetmaker>:-P
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>how are people from chile called in english? chilese? chilenes?
10:36<@peter1138>chilean
10:39<devilsadvocate>why does openttd need a new name?
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>because it says so in the forum!!
10:40<@Belugas>because a dumb head thinks it would be more cool with a more flashing and brilliant name
10:41<@Belugas>by theway, scrolling in sourceforge makes me think there are so many un-attractive names there that the whole sourceforge project should die right away
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10:54<@Belugas>but Rubidium already said that in the thread
10:54<aditsu>hi, I have 2 train tracks joining into 1, is there a way to make the trains go through faster? stopping and starting takes a long time, and they form long queues
10:55<planetmaker>aditsu: improved track layout design
10:55<planetmaker>check out the PublicServer archive and its game to possibly get ideas for solutions
10:57<@peter1138>use two lines :)
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10:58<aditsu>planetmaker: anything more specific? :p
10:58<planetmaker>aditsu: not really :-)
10:59<planetmaker>It depends on what you want
10:59<planetmaker>if one line shall have priority (e.g. main line), you could just build a priority
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>you can build a line like ~~ to make the trains slow down, if they can't join the line right away
11:00<aditsu>planetmaker: priority? how?
11:01<aditsu>Eddi|zuHause: what do you mean?
11:01<planetmaker>check out the openttdcoop wiki. Possibly also the openttd wiki explains them
11:02<PeterT>aditsu: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PublicServer:Archive
11:04<aditsu>hmm
11:05<aditsu>anyway, I just had a crash..
11:06<planetmaker>loaded a savegame from that page?
11:06<planetmaker>which had industrial stations renewal?
11:07<aditsu>planetmaker: no, I have no idea what to look at
11:07<planetmaker>concerning what?
11:08<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Priority
11:08<aditsu>concerning what game to load
11:08<aditsu>and why
11:09<planetmaker>aditsu: whatever game. They all have different focus. But all will have somewhere solutions to your problem
11:11<planetmaker>aditsu: we have built there many kinds of junctions. And you describe one of the problems usually to be solved in junctions. But each is different
11:11<planetmaker>Try to get some inspiration and then experiment
11:11<VVG>i remember there were one or two tutorial save games with signs explaining what's going on
11:11<VVG>on ottdcoop wiki
11:13<planetmaker>VVG: yeah. I don't know their quality anymore, though ;-)
11:14<Ammler>The quality might be good, just a bit outdated ;-)
11:15<Ammler>but for signals, Uwe's guide is quite nice
11:15<VVG>well, at the time, they did help me to better understand what's going on in actual coop games, enormously
11:15<VVG>Uwe's guide?
11:16<Ammler>don't know the url search for "ttd signals uwe"
11:16<VVG>google? or coop wiki?
11:17<planetmaker>google
11:17<Ammler>http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/signal/index.php?lang=en
11:18<Ammler>10 Swiss against 11 Chilens is like Swiss against Spain :-(
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>Nkufo is a very swiss sounding name ;)
11:27<Ammler>hehe, he doesn't also look that Swissish
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's funny how the swiss team seems to only consist of defenders :p
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's like the swiss army :p
11:29<Ammler>well, they had to change the tactic because of the stupid refeerer
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>more funny is that the chileans don't get anywhere through this defense :p
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11:31<Ammler>the weakest player is the yellow one
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>:)
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>the swiss didn't pay enough :p
11:33<Ammler>:'-(
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>it was bound to happen somewhen...
11:34<Ammler>yeah, well done, now we need play again, can't use the time anymore
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11:38<Ammler>after some video anlysies, the goal was offsite
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but "video proof" is irrelevant
11:39<Ammler>yeah, sadly, this refeerer teams just fails :-(
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>one really should check this referee's cash flow :p
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11:53<fjb>Quak frosch123
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11:55<planetmaker>quak frosch123 && hello fjb
11:56<fjb>Moin planetmaker
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11:58<frosch123>hello planetmaker, hello fjb :)
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12:06<@Belugas>hello to those who attempted the 20000th party, by the way. You lucky <CENSORED>
12:07<frosch123>we did not do so many parties
12:07<frosch123>hello belugas :)
12:08<@Belugas>but you met, and that's enough to trigger my jealousy big freaking time ;)
12:08<planetmaker>with good reason :-P
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12:20<@peter1138>um
12:20<@peter1138>i just saw a C5 being driven around town
12:22<@Belugas>better than C4 blowing up the town ^_^
12:23<@peter1138>uhhh
12:23<@peter1138>yeah
12:23<@peter1138>but just as rare
12:23<@Belugas>i like This C5 : http://medias.forum-auto.com/uploads/200307/marvin_0506200344_c5_1_1.jpg
12:23<@Belugas>but i think it's a bit photoshoped
12:24<@Belugas>big time
12:25<@peter1138>sinclair c5
12:27<@Belugas>ho... NICE!
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12:33<SpComb>it has a shadow
12:37<Goulp>planetmaker: do you plan to show us a picture of the beautifull r2000 cake ?
12:38<Goulp>oups r20000 !
12:38<planetmaker>no
12:38<VVG>what coop guys do when they need to rebuild a station which is under heavy use?
12:38<planetmaker>Goulp: I did already :-P
12:39<Yexo>rebuild it bit by bit while it's in use
12:39<Yexo>^^ one of the most fun parts of playing the gam
12:39<planetmaker>^^
12:39<VVG>also probably one of the tedious
12:39<Goulp>i will search elsewhere than where there is the r1000 one
12:40<planetmaker>Goulp: did you look at the r20k topic?
12:40<planetmaker>might be the place to start :-P
12:42<planetmaker>though it's called "r20000 party" or similar
12:43<Goulp>yeap that's it.
12:44<planetmaker>the first more colourful writing kinda baked away into nothingness ;-)
12:47<Goulp>gloups, no Openttd screenshot on it...
12:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r20004 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] stringcodes 82, 83 and 84 weren't properly converted to openttd codes so they didn't work
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13:02<PeterT>you should post the picture of the cake on openttd.org like with the r10000
13:02<PeterT>cake
13:06<planetmaker>well... the r10k cake was more colourful :-)
13:06<SpComb>maybe they nommed it before anyone managed to take a photo
13:06<@Belugas>SpComb, it's on forum :)
13:07<@Belugas>PeterT want it on openTTD's site as well
13:07<PeterT>:-)
13:07<SpComb>hmm
13:07<Rubidium>but this pie wasn't a screenshot!
13:08<SpComb>it's a little less colorful
13:08<SpComb>is that raisins and some kind of nuts? :o
13:08<@Belugas>almonds, i'd say
13:08<@Belugas>miam
13:08<frosch123>almond and honey
13:08<PeterT>pecans?
13:08<frosch123>very delicious
13:08<@Belugas>i believe you
13:08<SpComb>just looks a little too brown
13:09<PeterT>racist?
13:09<@Belugas>jealous, i'd say :)
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13:12<Rubidium>yeah, and TrueBrain was in a hurry to get it eaten. Even though he already had cake that day...
13:13<TrueBrain>hmmm
13:13<TrueBrain>cake
13:13<Rubidium>hmmm... dinner!
13:15<PeterT>aww, come on planetmaker! the shot of the cake is JPG! :(
13:17<+glx>it's not a screenshot
13:18<+glx>jpg is not good for screenshots, but it's ok for photos
13:18<PeterT>so can I submit it to info@openttd.org?
13:19<@Belugas>and it is shot by a Canon. So it's good for JPG
13:19<@Belugas>buwhahahahah
13:19<planetmaker>:-)
13:19<planetmaker>PeterT: why?
13:20<planetmaker>all people who receive info@openttd.org were there anyway :-P
13:20<PeterT>to add to screenshot list at openttd.org
13:20<Yexo>"screenshot list" <- it isn't a screenshot
13:21<planetmaker>:-)
13:21<planetmaker>it's a cake shot :-P
13:22-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3972.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:22<andythenorth>evening
13:23<planetmaker>and I'm not particularily proud of that photo either, PeterT
13:23<planetmaker>it's actually very boring and ill-composed
13:23-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3EB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:23<@Belugas>hehehe
13:23<PeterT>fine, fine :p
13:25<@Belugas>taking shots in a hurry is never a good thing ;)
13:26<Rubidium>he had more than enough time to make photos of it
13:27<@Belugas>lol
13:27<@Belugas>OK then :)
13:27<@Belugas>booo you planetmaker!
13:28<@peter1138>urgh, too hot
13:28<@peter1138>building fruit cage :s
13:28<planetmaker>he
13:28<@peter1138>and i've not got around to building a gate yet
13:29<planetmaker>I was busy with the meat on the BBQ ;-)
13:32<Rubidium>so, the BBQ wasn't started around 1200 UTC :)
13:32<Ammler>[19:23] <planetmaker> it's actually very boring and ill-composed <-- there is a better shot with the cake :-)
13:32<planetmaker>hehe
13:32<@Belugas>mmh... it' getting interesting :)
13:32<planetmaker>yes, there is somewhat :-P
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r20005 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Enumify force_proceed.
13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r20006 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Trains should also have running cost while slowing down for stop.
13:37<frosch123>stockpile emptied :)
13:39-!-josef_1950 [~josef_195@ip-88-153-162-179.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd
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13:40<josef_1950>hallo
13:40<josef_1950>ich bin neu
13:40<PeterT>welkomen
13:40<Yexo>hello josef_1950
13:40<josef_1950>versuche seit paar tagen diese spiel spielen
13:40<Yexo>this channel is (at least most of the time) english only
13:41<PeterT>you've reached the limits of my knowledge of german - can you please switch to english?
13:41<josef_1950>ich schpreche deutsch und polnisch
13:42<josef_1950>gehts das oder nicht?
13:42<josef_1950>am sorry
13:42<Ammler>je parle français un peux
13:43<+glx>@topic add English only
13:43-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only (glx)
13:43<+glx>stupid bot
13:43<PeterT>you can disable that
13:43<Ammler>:-)
13:44<josef_1950>gudbay
13:44<+glx>@topic set 4 English only
13:44-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only
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13:44<PeterT>glx: do @config supybot.plugins.Topic.format $topic
13:44*glx won't touch the config
13:45<PeterT>trust me.
13:45<PeterT>@config supybot.plugins.Topic.format
13:45<@DorpsGek>PeterT: $topic ($nick)
13:45<PeterT>see ^
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r20007 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt portuguese.txt unfinished/irish.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: irish - 19 changes by tem
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 12 changes by JayCity
13:45<Fast2>josef_1950: Es gibt einen Deutschen Raum im EuIRC-Netzwerk (irc://irc.euirc.de/ottd), aber viel ist da nicht los.
13:46<PeterT>Fast2: too late ;-)
13:46<Fast2>Oh
13:47<@Belugas>too slow, Fast2
13:47<PeterT>too slow, Belugas
13:47<@Belugas>PeterT, i was joking on the slow, fast ;)
13:47<@Belugas>gues i need more coffee, i'm not funny
13:48<PeterT>Belugas: I only got the joke, after I had written my stupid comment
13:48<@Belugas>:)
13:49<Rubidium>Belugas: but not more than 4 a day
13:50*Belugas has already exceeded the limit
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14:15<Wolf01>hello
14:16<PeterT>evening, Wolf01
14:18<planetmaker>hm... do I have more randomness available for a railtype tile than the 2 bits of pseudo-randomness?
14:19<Rubidium>maybe the track bits or something? surrounding tile types?
14:20-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:20<Rubidium>but those are probably expensive to get and might change over time
14:20<Wolf01>new features?
14:21<planetmaker>The idea I toy around with are some variation on the visible track / the fences
14:21<planetmaker>most should look alike, but some might show a bit different.
14:21<planetmaker>like not a fence, but a low, small hedge instead
14:21<planetmaker>thus 2 bits might be a bit too little.
14:22<planetmaker>and it shouldn't be overly expensive. Rails can be abundant.
14:22<planetmaker>Wolf01: not exactly new
14:22<planetmaker>but not exactly much used so far either
14:23<planetmaker>new only, if you mean something 6 months old is new ;-)
14:23<frosch123>how many pseudorandom bits had the trees?
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14:24<frosch123>looks like 4
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14:29<planetmaker>the question is, can I access some global random numbers?
14:30<planetmaker>like... randomaction2?
14:30<frosch123>"global"?
14:30<planetmaker>s/global//
14:30<frosch123>:p
14:30<planetmaker>:-)
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14:31<planetmaker>in the sense that any action2 can access it. I've no idea about their use and when / where they are applicable and allowed
14:31<planetmaker>That's why I'm asking so naively
14:31<frosch123>i do not get it :)
14:31<planetmaker>And I don't know a good example anywhere either
14:32<planetmaker>ok. Aim: 5% of the rail tiles shall show not a fence, but a hedge.
14:32<planetmaker>Are there means to do so?
14:32<Rubidium>tileindex % 20
14:32<planetmaker>:-)
14:33<frosch123>tileindex is not accessible though :)
14:33-!-Guest570 is now known as z-MaTRiX
14:33<z-MaTRiX>hi
14:34<andythenorth>planetmaker: if I understand you correctly, the only random you'll get is the map seed - and that only if a kind dev makes it available to you
14:34<frosch123> return GB(tmp, 0, 2); <- planetmaker: increase the two, and figure out how random it stays
14:34<andythenorth>you'll also quickly want grf-local storage :P
14:34<frosch123>it will be likely a bit non-random on small maps
14:35<planetmaker>andythenorth: not sure whether that's sensible for rail tiles... but maybe :-P
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14:37<planetmaker>hm... actually I got an idea:
14:38<planetmaker>re-randomize and do that three times ;-)
14:38<Zuu>New town window focus fix: fs#3891
14:38<planetmaker>and only if it stays the same all times, something different than default is done ;-)
14:38<planetmaker>@calc 4*4*4
14:38<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 64
14:38<planetmaker>good enough ;-)
14:38<frosch123>what? there is no rerandomisation
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14:39<Yexo>the railtype 'random' bits depend only on the tileindex
14:39<planetmaker>frosch123: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RandomAction2 --> random-triggers?
14:39<planetmaker>I guess I don't understand that then
14:40<frosch123>rerandomisation requires storing the bits in the map or some pool
14:40<frosch123>for railtypes there would only be the map
14:40<planetmaker>yep
14:40<frosch123>but map for railtiles is quite troublesome :)
14:40<planetmaker>:-)
14:40<Yexo>planetmaker: see bottom of that page: "Rail tiles have 2 pseudo random bits, based on tile location. There are no triggers."
14:40<planetmaker>doh
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14:41<planetmaker>scrolling helps, I guess
14:45<elho>you don't want it random per tile (as in wildly intermixed result for a track) anyway but some continuous function or sth.
14:49<planetmaker>how do you know what I want? ;-)
14:49<planetmaker>but yes, that'd make sense.
14:49<planetmaker>but would be even more expensive
14:49<Rubidium>crystal ball
14:49<frosch123>greycode is quite non-random :)
14:50<planetmaker>'greycode'?
14:50<frosch123>a sequence of numbers, where adjacent numbers only differ in one bit
14:51<frosch123>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greycode
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14:54<elho>planetmaker: i only claimed to know what you do not want. and that one was fairly obvious indeed ;)
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14:55<planetmaker>:-)
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14:56<planetmaker>interesting reading, frosch123
14:57<frosch123>actually i did not know that it had nothing to do with the colour :p
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15:01<planetmaker>:-)
15:04<elho>you could peek into the terrain generator code of the map, the heightmap of a map is a twodimensional continous function, too. so if it is generated directly (instead of iterative random terraforming or sth.), that could serve as inspiration
15:05<andythenorth>xy co-ord is also two-dimensional continuous :P
15:05<andythenorth>try that :)
15:06<andythenorth>planetmaker: TMWFTLB?
15:07<andythenorth>although try telling me that when I have an idea in my head :P
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15:07*frosch123 mumbles: if the topology of the image space is the initial topology, every function is continuous
15:08<planetmaker>^ that needs certainly more than one-time reading before it even starts to make little sense
15:08<planetmaker>but then it somewhat sounds plausible
15:08<planetmaker>but mathematicians like to fool physicists anyway ;-)
15:09<elho>heh
15:09<frosch123>hmm, actually, i messed it up :(
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15:09<planetmaker>see! and I didn't even notice :-P
15:09<planetmaker>guilty!
15:10<planetmaker>andythenorth: yes, TMWFTLG
15:10<planetmaker>other features in SER then first ;-)
15:11*elho goes back to his experimental-physics approach to game mechanics and draws a second tile in its full 16x16 size on graph paper :P
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15:18<Zuu>Hmm, I'm almost certain that I have dealt with getting the sign list window to remember the filter string if you close down the window but that is not in the version 35 that is the last one that I've uploaded.
15:18<Zuu>Maybe it sits around on my other computer.
15:19<Zuu>Or I decided that it is not necessary for this window.
15:19<planetmaker>elho: you might just as well draw it digitally ;-)
15:20<elho>i had to draw the lines that the graph papr already has. ;P
15:20*andythenorth ponders writing some code or something
15:20*andythenorth was playing a nice FIRS test game featuring Swedish houses :)
15:21<andythenorth>but it's boring :|
15:21<andythenorth>too many of my industries closed :(
15:21<elho>i actually started out with an ascii art, but paper torks better for scribbling around :)
15:22<elho> andythenorth: that's a feature that could be taken from freeciv - switch to communism and all such nonsense stops ;P
15:23<@peter1138>your citizens are revolting!
15:24<elho>thanks to communism putting some armoured vehicles in town shuts them up :P
15:25<Hirundo>The 'armoured vehicles'-approach generally does not need communism to work well
15:26<elho>in the freeciv case it does, iirc the maximum effect they have is 2 higher - or the maximum number that counts is 2 more, or something... been ages i last played that
15:27*planetmaker would like smooth snow transition under rail tiles
15:28<planetmaker>and a pony
15:28<@peter1138>and the moon
15:28<@peter1138>on a stick
15:28<planetmaker>yup
15:31<elho>how about snow on roads and vehicles leaving tracks behind? :P
15:33*andythenorth once considered registering moononastick.com
15:33<frosch123>someone should really remove all snow bits from the map array. that would make it far easier to add smooth transition for houses and rails
15:33<planetmaker>indeed
15:33<andythenorth>(for potential clients with unrealistic expectations)
15:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r20008 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt: -Add: Tamil language stub
15:33<planetmaker>frosch123: in principle they're really not needed IMHO
15:34<planetmaker>it could always be globally calculated from the snow line height
15:34<andythenorth>snow aware roads?
15:34<frosch123>ok, who looks up wiki about tamil first?
15:34<planetmaker>and then a transition region below it
15:34<andythenorth>frosch123 sri lanka / south india
15:34<planetmaker>^
15:35<planetmaker>no wiki needed :-)
15:35<frosch123>planetmaker: the tileloop is periodically. you just need an array with 256 items holding the snowline height for tileindex % 256. you can adapt those heights during the tileloop.
15:35<frosch123>the tiles only need to do min(ground density, destination snow density) for drawing
15:36<planetmaker>or like that
15:36<planetmaker>ideally it can be extended to newgrf climates ;-)
15:36<planetmaker>like having a density stored there (2 bits?)
15:36<planetmaker>on the tile
15:36<planetmaker>and allow newgrfs to define the tile types (default = normal, rain forest, desert, snow)
15:37<planetmaker>it'd then even allow for all-climate maps
15:39<frosch123>at least one of us missed the point :)
15:39<planetmaker>:-P
15:40<frosch123>snow does not need map storage, it is a static think from the current snowlineheight with slight noise introduced by bulldozer actions
15:41<planetmaker>yes
15:42<planetmaker>thus that noise is sufficient.
15:45<planetmaker>but shouldn't that allow freeing *some* bits?
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15:47<frosch123>not really, but it allows stuff which is currently suppressed while snow is present
15:47<frosch123>like rough/rocks below snow
15:48<Yexo>there are no graphics for that, otherwise that's already possible
15:48<frosch123>or smooth snow transition for bridges, rail/road (well, new rail at least), industries, houses, ...
15:48-!-Wizzleby [locke@204-74-213-37.take2hosting.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:48<frosch123>ah, yes, you changed that for clear tiles :)
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15:50<planetmaker>the normal ground tile lists bare land and /snow as separate tile types
15:50<planetmaker>a distinction which could be dropped, if snow just depends upon snow line height
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15:59*andythenorth shudders at the thought of smooth snow for industries
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16:08<PeterT>hai __ln__Berlin
16:12<andythenorth>so how do I do parameters anyway?
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16:37<frosch123>"MiniIN is now available on a three-times weekly multi-platform build."
16:41<+glx>someone resurrected it?
16:41<frosch123>someone digged it, and i took a look at the first post :)
16:43<frosch123>night
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16:57<@Belugas>byer
16:57<PeterT>bye bye Belugas
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17:10<Zuu>Hmm, sorting of sign list is not stable (in trunk)
17:11<Zuu>Why has no cooper found this? :-p
17:13<Zuu>okay, it is probably much easier to find out when you have the ability to highlight a specific sign, but even in case of multiple companies it is fairly noticable.
17:14<Ammler>Zuu: define "stable" ;-)
17:14<Zuu>"fairly" as in reproduceable if you want to do it. :-p
17:14<Zuu>"stable" as in that they maintains their relative order.
17:14<Ammler>it works quite well for what I used
17:15<Zuu>Two signs having the same name should imho keep their relative order if a new sign is added.
17:16<Zuu>Also closing + opening the sign list window will probably randomize the order of equally named signs in trunk.
17:17<Zuu>Though that is possible more of a academic problem.
17:21<Zuu>The unstableness of the sign orders could become an issue if/when the sign list patch gets merged.
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18:49<fjb>Hm, how Du I replace an ai by another one? Wait till one gets banrupt and then use start_ai with the other ai?
18:49<Yexo>you can use stop_ai <company_number> to remove an ai company from the game
18:49<+glx>then start_ai <ai_name>
18:52<fjb>It will be bankrupt soon. I think I let it die in peace. :-)
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19:01<fjb>Now the question is which AI to chose. Admiral_AI anoys me with the unconnectable stations. :-)
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19:05<Wolf01>'night
19:05<PeterT>night!
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19:11<fjb>Do the company numbers start at 0 or 1?
19:11<PeterT>1
19:12<fjb>Good to know.
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>[21.06.2010 21:34] <frosch123> ok, who looks up wiki about tamil first? <-- tamiles are a minority people in sri lanka. why would you need wikipedia for that?
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>the "tamil tigers" were in the news fairly recently, because they ended a decade-long civil war there
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19:33<Eddi|zuHause>"i'm on a seaweed diet."
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>"i seaweed and i smoke it"
19:34<fjb>Who reads the news? They are always bad.
19:34<+glx>no they are fun when french team is implied ;)
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
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20:03<fjb>The French like frog's legs...
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 22 00:00:36 2010