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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-06-27

---Logopened Sun Jun 27 00:00:42 2010
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03:39<DJNekkid>hi guys... looking at railtype varaction2 specs, variable 40, why isnt there a "arctic" tile there?
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03:51<DJNekkid>i know it _can_ be done via action 7/9, but it would be much cleaner code if that exsisted
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04:12<planetmaker>DJNekkid: there's the tiletype which can return 'snow'
04:12<planetmaker>look at swedishrails :-)
04:13<planetmaker>arctic climate can have two ground tile types: 'normal' and 'snow'
04:16<DJNekkid>planetmaker: i know, but then why are there deseret and rainforest? wouldnt the rainforest be "normal" as such?
04:17<planetmaker>you're right there :-)
04:17<planetmaker>but snow might be somewhat different: it can change by the snowline height
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04:18<planetmaker>there's no 'desert height' or 'rainforest height'
04:18<DJNekkid>no, but still...
04:18<andythenorth>how do I apply a patch from a remote URL again?
04:18<andythenorth>patch -p0 < ??
04:18<planetmaker>^
04:18<planetmaker>or -p1
04:18<planetmaker>depends
04:18<DJNekkid>i see why they have both desert and snow
04:18<Ammler>curl <url> | patch -p1
04:18<DJNekkid>but why the rainforest is there, and arctic isnt i dont see
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04:19<DJNekkid>its not consistant :)
04:19<planetmaker>DJNekkid: both, desert and rainforest cannot change
04:20<planetmaker>snow can change
04:20<andythenorth>Ammler: thanks
04:20<planetmaker>so only those constants are given there
04:20<andythenorth>trying the transfer patch from planetmaker :)
04:20<planetmaker>:-)
04:21<planetmaker>you have with that desire, andythenorth a VERY good point. It annoyed me multiple times already
04:21<planetmaker>actually every time I use transfer orders
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04:21<Ammler>what does the patch?
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04:21<planetmaker>Ammler: selecting transfer implies "no loading"
04:22<planetmaker>automatically selected
04:22<DJNekkid>i guess i'll just use an action7 then...
04:22<planetmaker>you can revert it
04:22<ccfreak2k>Oh no!
04:22<planetmaker>DJNekkid: why? you can query climate and tiletype in action2
04:22<ccfreak2k>Not action 7!
04:22<planetmaker>ccfreak2k: action9 maybe? ;-)
04:22<planetmaker>maybe 69... :-P
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04:23<DJNekkid>planetmaker: that is what i would like to do, but there is no "arctic tile" just "normal"
04:23<planetmaker>DJNekkid: yes. But in arctic you only have to know "snow" or "no snow"
04:24<planetmaker>hm... maybe NML made it too easy for me ;-)
04:24<andythenorth>planetmaker: that patch is a win
04:24<DJNekkid>its just that i do all tiletypes in one go...
04:24<planetmaker>That's what railtypes do provide, yes
04:25<planetmaker>you don't HAVE to worry about the climate
04:25<planetmaker>just provide under and overlay. And only care about snow
04:25<DJNekkid>for the subway tracks i do :)
04:25<planetmaker>Nothing more required, no?
04:25<planetmaker>ah
04:25<planetmaker>fair enough
04:25<DJNekkid>:D
04:26<planetmaker>DJNekkid: then I'd go for: design a custom parameter which holds "temperate", "desert", "rainforest", "arctic" and "snow"
04:26<planetmaker>and then base the decision upon that parameter
04:27<planetmaker>actually. Not snow in there
04:27<planetmaker>but still
04:27<planetmaker>snow has to follow
04:27<planetmaker>ah damn :-)
04:27<DJNekkid>im more thinking action7/9 to check for arctic or temperate, and then var2-40 the rest
04:28<planetmaker>yes :-)
04:28<planetmaker>it's surprising how easy it is to forget about varaction2 vs. action 7/9 vs. actionD when one just can use everything in a unified switch statement :-)
04:29<DJNekkid>ive never used thoose action Ds
04:29<planetmaker>reading grf parameters? Oh yes, you do ;-)
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04:29<planetmaker>writing base costs?
04:30<DJNekkid>oh, hehe
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04:32<planetmaker>[10:24] <andythenorth> planetmaker: that patch is a win <-- good to know that it works for you :-)
04:33<planetmaker>then I assume I've won a lobbyist for that patch :-P
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04:38<Ammler>now go on strike until it gets trunk :-P
04:39<DJNekkid>what condition type do i use when checking climate?
04:43<planetmaker>what do you mean with condition type, DJNekkid ?
04:43<DJNekkid>the 4th byte of a action7/9
04:43<planetmaker>you check the global var which stores the climate
04:44<planetmaker>variable 83
04:45<planetmaker>you read one byte from it
04:45<DJNekkid>var2?
04:45<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7
04:46<DJNekkid>http://paste.openttd.org/226020
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04:47<DJNekkid>supposed to be comment with "1 byte range" and not "4 byte range"
04:49<asilv>condition type would be \7= (Parameter is equal to value), i guess
04:49<DJNekkid>hmm, can use varaction2 variable 03 as well
04:51<planetmaker>indeed. Sounds more reasonable
04:51<planetmaker>avoids action7/9
04:51<DJNekkid>yea
04:59<DJNekkid>http://paste.openttd.org/226021
04:59<DJNekkid>should be like that i think?
04:59<DJNekkid>(sort of tierd)
05:05<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r20025 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Doc: Fix/add comments to let Doxygen know about the documentation.
05:12<planetmaker>looks somewhat ok, DJNekkid
05:13<planetmaker>but I still don't dream the varaction2 sequences ;-)
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05:19<DJNekkid>are there any updated renums around yet btw? (that properly support railtypes)
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05:20*andythenorth ponders more ships
05:22<planetmaker>DJNekkid: there aren't to my knowledge; though Yexo somewhen created a patch; but I don't know about the whereabouts of binaries
05:22*andythenorth is playing a UKRS game with very small industry production (18-50t at most primaries)
05:22<andythenorth>small production is fun
05:24<andythenorth>however the range of airports available in 1960 is....not fun
05:24<andythenorth>:|
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>so... how many more of these newgrf-projects is NekoMaster starting without having any clue what to do?
05:34<planetmaker>about a dozen
05:36<andythenorth>he's enthusiastic though.
05:36<andythenorth>and getting more articulate :)
05:36<andythenorth>so mostly harmless
05:39*andythenorth wants a helipad :(
05:40*andythenorth wonders where the airport date code is
05:40*DJNekkid DCC's andy a helipad
05:41<andythenorth>airport.cpp looks like a good place to start
05:41<Alberth>somewhere in src/table/ I suspect
05:41<andythenorth>src/table/airport_defaults.h
05:42<andythenorth>Alberth: thanks :)
05:42<Alberth>technically, it is not code :D
05:43<andythenorth>airport dates are currently....unsatisfactory :)
05:44<andythenorth>I suspect it depends on start date though
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06:28*andythenorth three road stops per farm looks like a lot :P
06:28<andythenorth>two pickup (one per cargo), one dropoff (supplies)
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07:08*andythenorth "make mine a 99"
07:08<andythenorth>(in honour of Pikka)
07:10<Eddi|zuHause># football play we better than you
07:13<DJNekkid>what exactly is concidered a rainforest tile?
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>a grass tile in tropic
07:14<@Rubidium>DJNekkid: there where tropic trees grow (quickly)
07:14<DJNekkid>that is what i would think as well
07:15<DJNekkid>so, in other words, they dont really exsist? :)
07:15<DJNekkid>hehe
07:15<@Rubidium>they do exist
07:15<DJNekkid>but they arent as eddi say, the green tiles in tropical climate?
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>have you used the query tool yet?
07:16<DJNekkid>"grass"
07:16<DJNekkid>and ... rainforest on the ones with trees on them
07:17<DJNekkid>guess you can just skip my last bugreport on flyspray then
07:17<DJNekkid>or optionally make it into the "green" tiles as well
07:18<@Rubidium>not all green tiles are tropical tiles
07:18<DJNekkid>shores seem to be desert :)
07:18<@Rubidium>could be... IIRC tropical is only above a specific level
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07:23<DJNekkid>hmm, wierd, but okidoki :D
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07:23<DJNekkid>now "it" "works" :D
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07:54<Vasa>hi, I'm totally new to src code compiling, and patch applying in windows
07:54<Vasa>I downloaded Tortoise SVN
07:55<Vasa>Make the SVN checkout
07:55<Vasa>But after I try to apply patch, I just get a blank TortoiseMerge window
07:55<Vasa>Any idea?
07:56<@Rubidium>good chance you've got a patch that tortoise doesn't understand
07:57<Vasa>I'd like to apply the automated timetables, and separation patch
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08:00<@Rubidium>so before others go searching... that's definitely one of the patches that doesn't apply in tortoise
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08:08*Alberth is wondering whether it would be better to recommend hg to newbies. No svn:/ downloading, better chances with patch applying.
08:09<Alberth>downside may larger download size due to the history.
08:09<Alberth>*be
08:12<Alberth>hmm, difference is not that big
08:14<andythenorth>somehow hg clicks better with my brain
08:14<@Rubidium>a working buildottd would still be superior
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08:16<Vasa>Hi, it's me again: my problem is: try to apply patch in windows with tortoiseSVN
08:16<Vasa>But when I choose add patch, I only get a blank tortoiseMerge window
08:16<Vasa>after I pick the patch file
08:16<@Rubidium>Vasa: the patch format you want to apply isn't "supported" by tortoisesvn
08:17<Alberth>you already tried a compile without applying the patch?
08:17<@Rubidium>it is supported by all other tools I know to apply patches
08:17<@Rubidium>it's been, in my opinion, a very weak point of tortoisesvn
08:18<Vasa>no
08:18<Vasa>actually, that's going to my next question, how to comply?
08:19<Alberth>better make the the first question :) if you apply the patch before compiling for the first time and it breaks, you don't know what to blame, the patch, or your compiler install
08:20<@Rubidium>Vasa: follow http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions
08:20<Vasa>okay, thank you
08:20<Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#Now_I_have_got_the_source_code_how_can_I_compile_it.3F
08:20<@Rubidium>Vasa: thing is that installing everything you need on Windows is several magnitudes harder than on (most) other operating systems
08:22<@Rubidium>there once was a tool that did most of the difficult stuff for you, i.e. you only needed to tell which version of OpenTTD and which patch to apply and then it would compile everything for you... but it has been broken for almost two years and nobody has resurrected it
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08:50*andythenorth needs a helistation with more landing pads :P
08:51<andythenorth>"when will new airports be done" :P
08:52<Alberth>when everything is committed to trunk
08:59<Sacro>we should rewrite openttd in php
08:59<Sacro>then we'd have none of these compiling issues
09:00<andythenorth>php always wins :P
09:02<Sacro>yep
09:12<Alberth>yeah, replacing a simple compiler issue with using a broken language sounds like a good plan indeed
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09:16<Akebono>!password
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09:16<PeterT>:-D
09:16<PeterT>@password
09:16<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: That operation cannot be done in a channel.
09:16<PeterT>haha!
09:33<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r20026 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: No need to copy a formal parameter if the value is not needed further.
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10:20<frosch123>hmm, someone must have scored :p
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10:39<Ammler>hmm, it is still the tournament of refeeres
10:40*andythenorth wants to bet some code against the outcome of this football match
10:40<andythenorth>what pony do I get if we win?
10:40<andythenorth>and what do I have to write if you lot win :P
10:41<+glx>Ammler: that's a good reason to refuse video ;)
10:41<Ammler>true :-P
10:43<Ammler>andythenorth: who is "you lot"?
10:43<Eoin>im glad theres no video refereeing
10:43<Eoin>:P
10:44<andythenorth>Ammler: the one's who are playing England right now :D
10:44<+glx>but sometime the 4th referee checks the video
10:46<Ammler>hehe, the "Wembley Goal" :-)
10:47<PeterT>!score
10:47<Eoin>FIFA World Cup: Germany 2 - 1 England (Half Time)
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10:51*andythenorth wonders about a day length patch
10:51<andythenorth>time is passing too quickly
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: well, it's the balance for the one in '66 ;)
10:52<Ammler>I think, the influence of the referees is already too high in Africa.
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, something really extreme must happen before a system will be changed
10:59<frosch123>yeah, just as expected, some fool already updated the wiki page about the wembley goal :p
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>hehe ;)#
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>funnily, i stumbled upon that page just yesterday...
11:14<Eoin>http://images.4chan.org/sp/src/1277651296722.jpg
11:17<KingJ>heh
11:26<frosch123>who needs a tv, if the window is opened :)
11:26<valhallasw>:D
11:26<frosch123>omg, they even have fireworks...
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>hey... 4:1 is fireworks worthy ;)
11:27<@Rubidium>good luck inhaling me then :)
11:27<Eoin>bye bye England
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't Enschede the place where a fireworks factory blew up?
11:27<frosch123>all, rb's fault :p
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>were you involved in that? :p
11:28<@Rubidium>I didn't live in E'de back then
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14:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r20027 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt irish.txt romanian.txt):
14:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: irish - 61 changes by tem
14:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
14:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: romanian - 12 changes by kkmic
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16:34<planetmaker>is my assumption correct that it was moderately easy to give depots a build date as they exist already as a pool object, but the same would virtually be impossible for level crossings and tunnels as they're just ground tiles without special pool object on them?
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16:44<Alberth>not very much at home with pools, but having an object to store the data in, seems an advantage to me :)
16:44<planetmaker>and indeed those two don't have pools, right?
16:46<@peter1138>correct
16:47<@peter1138>levelcrossingpool!
16:47<@Rubidium>NEMB!
16:47<@peter1138>well, enginepool was a hugely anticipated feature...
16:48<@Rubidium>but that didn't need map bits
16:51<@peter1138>NEMB?
16:51<Terkhen>New England Miniature Ball?
16:51<@Rubidium>"not enough map bits"
16:51<planetmaker>ah, a pity :-)
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16:52<planetmaker>I guess I should start playing with the two pseudo-random bits
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17:31<DJNekkid>planetmaker: i might be on the american steppes here, but if a "build date" is enabled for one track-part, i cant see why it shouldnt be enabled for the rest of them?
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17:42<planetmaker>hm, is it?
17:43<planetmaker>DJNekkid: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=130721 <-- random fence graphics :-)
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17:45<DJNekkid>nice :D
17:46<planetmaker>DJNekkid: I don't see build dates on tracks. Only depots and stations
17:46<Hirundo>planetmaker: randomized using NML or nfo?
17:46<planetmaker>Hirundo: NML
17:46<planetmaker>but as you're here... how does the probability work?
17:46<planetmaker>what do the numbers I give there actually mean?
17:47<Hirundo>they're relative probabilities
17:47<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/226025
17:47<planetmaker>relative... so it doesn't depend upon the random bits of that thing?
17:48<Hirundo>The sum of all probabilities has to fit within the random data
17:48<Hirundo>so for railtypes, it can be no more than 4
17:48<planetmaker>ah, ok. It does
17:48<planetmaker>and I read the feature for it.
17:48<planetmaker>I don't get the dependent and independent part you talk about there
17:49<planetmaker>obviously I don't need it, but...?
17:49<Hirundo>you can say 'A uses the same bits as B' or 'A uses different bits than B'
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17:49<planetmaker>A and B are?
17:49<Hirundo>two different random blocks
17:50<planetmaker>ah, so it only matters if I chain them?
17:52<Hirundo>At least, if you use them for the same itesm
17:53<planetmaker>ah... so it's like
17:53<PeterT>NekoMaster's excuses for not being able to compile get less amusing as he goes along
17:53<planetmaker>independent: name-of-other-random-block;
17:54<planetmaker>dependent: name-of-other-random-block2
17:55<planetmaker>Hirundo: I wonder though one thing: should it possibly be named random_switch instead of just random?
17:56<Hirundo>hmm.. good point
17:56<PeterT>Hirundo: when you build new bundles, I'll ask to have the server put back up
17:56<PeterT>Peter's IS2.1.1 Server
17:57<Hirundo>does the current version work?
17:57<PeterT>IS2.1.1?
17:57<PeterT>or the trunk patches you posted?
17:57<Hirundo>the latest patches / hg repo
17:57<PeterT>oh, didn't test those yet
17:57<PeterT>the owner of the server also doesn't want to compile many times, him and I would rather use a release
17:58<Terkhen>yeah, msys is kinda expensive
17:59<Hirundo>I could fire up my MSVC to build a release binary
17:59<PeterT>Hirundo: we're on ubuntu
17:59<Hirundo>but your users are not, generally :)
18:00<PeterT>this is true.
18:00<PeterT>are you saying that if we compile an hg build, it will become IS2.1.2?
18:01<Hirundo>A few basic tests may be nice, to make sure that it doesn't crash right away
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18:01<Hirundo>I'll look at it tomorrow afternoon (=morning for you?)
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18:01<PeterT>Hirundo: yep
18:02<Hirundo>I don't really care about versioning, but it may be necessary for correct MP compatibility
18:02<Hirundo>But 2.1.2 sounds logical
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19:14<Terkhen>good night
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20:02<Smoovious>is it possible to configure the size of the grassy edge of the land in the desert scenario? make it thicker? (during world creation)
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the distance between water and desert?
20:03<Smoovious>yep
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>i suspect somewhere in "genworld" files
20:03<Smoovious>2048x2048 map, it seems too thin
20:04<Smoovious>I mean, without re-compiling
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>of course i mean source code changes
20:04<Smoovious>grin
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it's configurable (yet)
20:04<Smoovious>okee...
20:05<Smoovious>I do like the new open graphics set that is available now... very nice
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 28 00:00:46 2010