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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-01-11

---Logopened Tue Jan 11 00:00:20 2011
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02:14<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:23<Zuu>morning Terkhen
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03:52<@planetmaker>good morning
03:58<@SmatZ>hello planetmaker
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04:00<@planetmaker>hey SmatZ :-)
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04:39<@peter1138>pom te pom
04:39<@peter1138>right, now that i (think i) understand a*
04:39<@peter1138>i should optimise it a bit :p
04:40<@peter1138>i switched from pythagoras to manhatten again. seems to work quite well, and hits less tiles
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04:57<@peter1138>so it was quite fast when the algorithm was wrong :p
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05:01<@planetmaker>shit. we got desyncs on the beta3 - server again :-(
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05:32<DJNekkid>can anyone familiar with nfo see how they read this code? as far as i can see should it do what the comments say, but ingame wont it autoselect
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05:52<@peter1138>hmm, well, changed the closed list to a hash and it fails ;D
05:53<@peter1138>ahh, lol, i forgot to include z in the hash :p
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05:58<@peter1138>yay, works perfectly
05:59<@peter1138>and about 5 million times faster
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06:19<@planetmaker>DJNekkid, looking at that code: don't modify a user parameter. It has pitfalls. Better introduce an internal parameter for such things
06:21<DJNekkid>im not sure if i follow
06:23<DJNekkid>but either way, im gonna take a nap now (im on strong painkillers). bak in about 2hrs
06:24<@planetmaker>I can only recommend you my code I wrote for OpenGFX+Trains.
06:24<@planetmaker>Which I adopted also for HEQS, so there it is found in NFO
06:25<@planetmaker>setting the running and purchase costs based on parameter and / or available (other) newgrfs
06:25<@peter1138>hmm, now... how to handle doors...
06:26<@peter1138>and allow for traversing through water... hmm...
06:26<@peter1138>water means 26 possible directions, hurr
06:27<@peter1138>and drowning, heh
06:27<@peter1138>ok, maybe allow swimming :D
06:27<@peter1138>on the surface that is
06:28*planetmaker wonders why peter1138 gives us here a live feed on mine craft programming adventures...
06:29<@peter1138>wait until i do a fully 3d map for ottd...
06:30<@peter1138>and also because my minecraft server users haven't the foggiest idea on anything like programming let alone algorithms, heh
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06:46<__ln__>@seen Bjarni
06:46<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 45 weeks, 5 days, 12 hours, 21 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <-- wtf. Some rich guy built a trebuchet and uses burning pianos as ammo
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07:40<@planetmaker>oh, ChillCore made a wonderful argument, I'll remember that: "Yes, in real life that can happen and does happen but in real life you can not adjust the daylength factor."
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07:57<Ammler>planetmaker: can you fix that?
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07:59<Ammler>sometimes, the rl should be changed like the game and not always change the game for realism
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08:04<@planetmaker>I shall have a look at that
08:14<V453000>guess I should not comment on realism in game :p
08:16*Lakie thinks people forget that they (people) often escape to games as a repreive from reality...
08:20*planetmaker agrees with Lakie
08:21<@planetmaker>and waves 'hello' to him and frosch123
08:21<Lakie>Heh, hi planetmaker
08:21<frosch123>afternoon everyone .)
08:21<Lakie>Hi frosch123.
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09:05<@Belugas>V453000, no, indeed, you should not :)
09:05<@Belugas>and you'd better not!
09:06<@Belugas>[08:14] <V453000> guess I should not comment on realism in game :p <-- that
09:06<V453000>yes, why not :)
09:07<@Belugas>because it's useless and leading nowhere
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09:09<Lakie>And ruins fun
09:09<V453000>we could agree on that if such realistic things werent added :p
09:09<@Belugas>nice try
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09:10<@Belugas>my realism sucks. when i came in, last night, my wife and my kid were sobbing over the lifeless body of our old fatefull 27" sony triniton tv
09:11<@Belugas>that sucks.
09:11<@Belugas>so i prefer to play non realistic openttd
09:11<@Belugas>or use my brand new soldering iron.
09:12<V453000>well my realism doesnt suck but I am stronly against bending openttd to look more realistic :p so lets say we agree
09:14<@Belugas>mmh... yet another certification regression test plan to start
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09:33<@Rubidium>V453000: but OpenTTD is extremely realistic; it is a perfect match for its universe. How can a model be any more realistic than being exactly the same as the universe it tries to model?
09:34<ujjain>cool, Dutch documentation!
09:35<ujjain>is openttd hard to learn?
09:36<burkek>one evening to learn, lifetime to master
09:37<ujjain>hehe :) Everything advantage has a disadvantage?
09:38<@Belugas>and it depends on what you want to learn
09:38<@Belugas>code or game?
09:38<@Belugas>grf or signals?
09:38<ujjain>game! :)
09:38<ujjain>grf / signals < don't know what that is
09:42<@Belugas>then, it is not important for now ;)
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09:46<DanMacK>Hey all
09:52<@Belugas>hey sir
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10:07<supermop>good morning
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10:20<DanMacK>Issues Belugas?
10:21<@Belugas>bank processing test, need to break connetion
10:21<@Belugas>i think i'll quit for now...
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10:35<ZirconiumX>hello LordAro
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11:41*DanM waits for his alter-ego to ping out
11:41<Ammler>/msg nickserv ghost|regain
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11:42<DanMacK>Cool, TY
11:42<LordAro>Ammler: fail?
11:44<Ammler>fail what?
11:44<LordAro>ignore me...
11:46<LordAro>i thought it was a password, and i didn't read the bit above :)
11:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r21768 /trunk/src/tilearea.cpp: -Fix [FS#4396]: Diagonal tile iterator needed a special case for A * 0 selections.
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11:53<hello>take a look at these
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11:54*DanMacK 's bot-detector goes haywire
11:54<ZirconiumX>It contains a virus
11:55*ZirconiumX thanks Mozilla for the download prompt
11:56<LordAro>well, "OPENSKY Connection Manager.exe" doesn't exactly sound too good, does it?
11:59<ZirconiumX>I think the program's a trojan
12:00<ZirconiumX>goodbye hello
12:03<+glx>yeah spam in PM too
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12:04<ZirconiumX>hello Belugas
12:04<Wolf01>hello Belugas
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12:04<@SmatZ>I reported him at #oftc, he should be banned now
12:05<@Belugas>hi guys :)
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12:05<@SmatZ>hello Belugas
12:05<@Belugas>certif execution is finished
12:05<@Belugas>got to grab the results now
12:10*ZirconiumX sighes
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12:26<verm__>TrueBrain: so i used your linux->osx cross-build instructions and got it working
12:26<verm__>with the latest compiler from apple
12:27<TrueBrain>nice to know stuff still works
12:27<verm__>almost nothing works in that document but the commandlines were helpful :)
12:27<TrueBrain>hahaha :D
12:27<TrueBrain>it has been written 2 years ago .. :)
12:27<verm__>yeah i know
12:28<TrueBrain>but yeah, principles should hold :)
12:28<verm__>some of your patches got applied upstream at odctools
12:28<TrueBrain>ah, yeah, they told me :)
12:28<verm__>they updated ld64 which broke things (a lot of missing headers)
12:28<TrueBrain>for some reason my page became really popular, and I still wonder why ....
12:28<verm__>the latest compiler has several issues
12:28<verm__>which i fixed.. now it works fine
12:29<TrueBrain>issues like?
12:29<verm__>TrueBrain: well i'm only using this for tinderbox purposes
12:30<verm__>better explanation than i could give i suppose
12:30<TrueBrain>ah, ic
12:30<verm__>i use my mac for other things and didn't want builds running on it
12:31<verm__> <-it will soon show up here
12:31<TrueBrain>I still wonder why so few people wrote documentation about OSX cross compiling ...
12:32<TrueBrain>guess because OSX sucks :D :D
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12:34<TrueBrain>(I have a mac myself, but ssstttt)
12:35<@planetmaker>verm__, maybe you write an updated version?
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12:41<verm__>planetmaker: yeah i considered it, i may do that eventually when i un-lazy myself
12:41<verm__>i only use unix myself (freebsd/solaris etc)
12:41<TrueBrain>imagine if I did that with the documentation, being lazy :D
12:42<verm__>i've got a few linux vms, a windows machine and osx for development o nly
12:42<verm__>well software documentation is different than writing a walkthrough :)
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13:19<ZirconiumX>if in doubt make -i
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13:29<ZirconiumX>hello Alberth
13:30*ZirconiumX thinks that the typo of hi is cool
13:31*ZirconiumX is getting irritated by compile
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13:36<mbruins_>Your '' file is corrupted or missing! You can find '' on your Transport Tycoon Deluxe CD-ROM.
13:36<mbruins_>is dont not have that cd
13:36<mbruins_>can i leech the file somewhere or will that be illegal?
13:37<ZirconiumX>Just a minute
13:37<ZirconiumX>It is abandonware
13:37<@SmatZ>please don't distribute illegal stuff here
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13:37<mbruins_>could you explain 'abandonware'?
13:37<KenjiE20>ttdlx isn't abandonware
13:37<mbruins_>SmatZ: did not know that was illegal
13:37<@SmatZ>mbruins_: you can download opensfx, opengfx and openmsx
13:37<KenjiE20>OpenTTD has the option to get OpenXFS/no sound
13:37<@SmatZ>if you have windows installer, it even asks you if you want to download them
13:38<mbruins_>i try to run openttd on debian
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13:38<KenjiE20>touch ~/
13:38<KenjiE20>I think should do it
13:38<KenjiE20>sorry ~/.openttd/
13:38<mbruins_>sadly no
13:38<@SmatZ> you can download it here
13:38<@SmatZ>maybe there are better ways though :)
13:39<@planetmaker>without "cz."
13:39<@SmatZ>well, readme.txt says what should be done :)
13:39<mbruins_>hm alright i quess i need to read moer
13:39<mbruins_>thanks so far guys
13:39<@planetmaker>mbruins_: you should not need a
13:40<@planetmaker>Use the free laternative
13:40<@planetmaker>use as sound set either NoSound or get OpenSFX from
13:41<@planetmaker>KenjiE20: that trick no longer works. As it's not needed to work.
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r21769 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt serbian.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latvian - 21 changes by dzhins
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: serbian - 8 changes by etran
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: swedish - 2 changes by Ledel
13:46<mbruins_>planetmaker: ty
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14:10*Rubidium wonders what version mbruins was using; sounds like 0.6 era ;)
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14:16<@SmatZ>may be :)
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15:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the civ5-way of preventing cache-desyncs: upon joining of one player, all players reload the game...
15:22<SpComb>restart your worker process every 1000 requests to avoid memory leaks
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15:23<dihedral>i had something for you with regards to apache, but i totally forgot - some setting regarding 'mutex'-something
15:23<dihedral>i think
15:24<dihedral>it resulted in apache services often requireing restarts due to not anymore accepting connections for some reason i have forgotten right now, to not be needed anymore
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16:03<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: in case "Transfer: X / Income: Y" is shown, and you're zoomed out one level you get "Transfer: X" instead
16:03<@Rubidium>that's quite noticable as the "Transfer: X" is in big letters whereas the other floaters are all small
16:04<@Rubidium>so you're missing a string; looking at the diff you're actually missing two strings
16:05<@Rubidium>"TINY" versions of STR_FEEDER_INCOME and STR_FEEDER_COST
16:08<fonsinchen>Thanks, I'll take care of that.
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16:47<Keiya>Has anyone hacked signals to show 'danger' when there's no train in front of it?
16:47<@SmatZ>PBS are red by default
16:47<@Terkhen>hi Keiya
16:48<@SmatZ>only when train approaches, it turns green
16:48<@SmatZ>if there is a way
16:48<Keiya>(Similar to how real train signals (and road traffic signals, and alarms in factories, and...) default to the 'danger' sign)
16:48<@SmatZ>signals in OpenTTD are either green or red
16:49<Keiya>SmatZ: Yeah, that's basically the right visual behavior. I was just wondering if anyone'd hacked it onto the normal signals so I can get the effect without the nastyness of PBS-everywhere
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16:49<@SmatZ>it wouldn't be that easy to do
16:49<@planetmaker>Keiya: that's not really possible, unless you just re-draw the graphics
16:49<@SmatZ>eg. pathfinders look at the state of signal
16:49<supermop>i wouldn't call pbs nasty...
16:49<@planetmaker>it'd mean they never show green, though
16:49<@Terkhen>can't you code it as a newgrf that just switches the red-green sprites?
16:50<@planetmaker>Terkhen: rather red and red ;-)
16:50<Keiya>supermop: PBS is nice when you need it, but using it everywhere tends to lead to weird network bugs, in my experience.
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16:51<Keiya>Ah well. It's not like I spend most of my time staring at signals anyway.
16:52<supermop>network bugs?
16:52<supermop>ive never had a problem, even in complex systems
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16:54<Keiya>It's probably caused as much by my bad building as PBS, just I can force things a little more with traditional signals :P
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17:19<@Terkhen>good night
17:19<supermop>good night
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18:39<George>frosch123: Could you have a look at FS#4399 ?
18:39<George>Would it be hard?
18:42<frosch123>can you post some examples what stuff can be archieved with that?
18:50<George>The reson to do that is that when I create ARV I can use only first 128 IDs
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18:53<George>bit 7 would mean flip
18:54<George>So, when I ran out of 128 IDs I had to use IDs below 128 to represent the graphics of several vehicles
18:55<George>But I can't get information what graphics to use, because I do not know the ID of the previous part
18:55<George>because it is a wagon, the ID of the train is useless
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18:57<frosch123>so you are basically heading for the first articulated part
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19:00<@Yexo>George: if you need the id of the first part of the consist, can't that be done already with var C6 via type 82/86/8A ?
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19:04<+michi_cc>That looks more like a feature request for IDs > 128 for ARVs.
19:05<@Yexo>afaik that needs moving the "is reversed" bit from bit 7 to bit 14, which can't be done without a new nfo version
19:05<@Yexo>or by adding (yet another) bit to some general action0 property that can be set by newgrfs that want the bit to be moved so they have access to more ids for ARVs
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19:09<+michi_cc>Well, I'm not that versed in NFO, but this seems like one of the things that should get resolved somehow.
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19:13<+michi_cc>Hacky idea: Use register 0x100 in the callback to return an extended ID somehow?
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19:40<@Yexo>michi_cc: the problem is that openttd somehow has to differ between newgrfs using the "normal" return value from the callback and new newgrfs that use the "new" method of returning an extended id
19:41<+michi_cc>Preset 0x100 to 0xffffffff or something and only use it when the value changed maybe?
19:42<@Yexo>doable, but there is nothing in the specs that says that current newgrfs are not allowed to change register 0x100 for callbacks that don't expect it
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20:23<Eddi|zuHause><Yexo> afaik that needs moving the "is reversed" bit from bit 7 to bit 14, which can't be done without a new nfo version <-- you could instead just introduce a new callback, and mark this one as deprecated
20:23<@Yexo>true, but that needs even more code in openttd to support it
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>you mean other than just copy-pasting and moving the bit?
20:24<@Yexo>no, that's about it
20:26<Eddi|zuHause>and about that grf version 8 thing that'S been discussed for years now... i think it's going nowhere unless one starts implementing it (as an "unfinalized" version)
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21:40<ezrakilty>Hi. How do folks go about organizing games against other people? I'd like to find one or two people at a certain skill level and play a reasonably short game (maybe 35 or 50 years, say) sometime.
21:43<supermop>you can play online
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21:45<supermop>you can host a game if you know how to forward the ports
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22:07<ezrakilty>ok--but how do I find other players that would make a good game for me?
22:07<ezrakilty>are there player-level ratings on the servers, or anything like that?
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22:11<ezrakilty>Or, is there a cycle of when games start and end?
22:12<ezrakilty>How do you avoid jumping in and spending too much time, or jumping in late?
22:12<Ylioppilas>only if the server name provides the information :/
22:13<Ylioppilas>if it does not, you can't avoid those
22:14<Ylioppilas>there are a few organizations running servers on a regular basis with their timetables, some even offer registrations and track for experience points
22:15<ezrakilty>ok, that's something to look for.
22:15<Ylioppilas>but well, they are using a modified server afaik
22:15<ezrakilty>is there any etiquette, like should I not barge in on games in progress somehow?
22:16<Ylioppilas>I haven't noticed anything related to that
22:16<Ylioppilas>most players follow at least these basic guidelines
22:17<ezrakilty>ok; that all looks perfectly reasonable.
22:22<ezrakilty>On the webpage I see lots of servers, but in the game it only shows two which are "offline"--is this normal?
22:22<Ylioppilas>if you have searched for servers in the game, it is not :/
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22:37<ezrakilty>ah, indeed! there is a "find server" button. cool.
22:37<ezrakilty>i shall play a game sometime.
22:38<Ylioppilas>great :)
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 12 00:00:21 2011