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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-01-12

---Logopened Wed Jan 12 00:00:21 2011
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00:27<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
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01:52<@planetmaker>moin
01:54<wolfrage>Is there any plan to make the handling of Human cargo smarter or all cargo for that matter? Human cargo generally only goes one way, yet a vehicle will drop off and pick up the same people and never get paid. Unless you set up the right orders at the right times but it does not make sense in reality.
01:58<@planetmaker>not currently. you might want to look at the cargodist branch.
01:58<wolfrage>planetmaker: I just found and was reading that, ty
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02:18<wolfrage>From what I can find on it, it seems the Cargo Distrobution is complete, so why was it never brought back into the main branch?
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02:21<roboboy>It is so large (currently), and the devs don't like portions of it (the way those portions are implemented)
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02:28<wolfrage>roboboy: I C, and so is a mediator needed and perhaps some re-programming according to their standards? Or is it simply unacceptable?
02:30<roboboy>my understanding is that fonso is reworking it into smaller bits that are easier for the devs to review. He is also rewriting/reimplementing the bits already rejected. There are already small bits of Cargodist in trunk
02:33<@Terkhen>good morning
02:33<@planetmaker>fonsinchen is doing a good job of chopping off small pieces as patches.
02:33<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
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02:35<@planetmaker>but mostly me feeling is that cargodist itself is not 'done' yet. So why go for trunk inclusion for 80%-finished stuff?
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02:42<wolfrage>roboboy: Well I am glad to here that he is chunking it an that it is being accepted, even if slowly.
02:44<wolfrage>planetmaker: I agree to an extent, particularly that it is not good to have broken or partial code. But the other part of me really wants to see this feature as it will make the game all the more enjoyable, for me that is.
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02:46<@planetmaker>there's a difference between 'want this feature' and 'this feature also takes care gracously of border cases'
02:48<wolfrage>planetmaker: do not understand your wording?
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02:49<@planetmaker>in other words: afaik it still has unresolved issues. Which the most players who play cargodist are not bothered with, but which are important.
02:50<@planetmaker>but it's longer ago that I dwelled on that in-depth. So it might even have changed
02:51<wolfrage>OK I understand. Thank you all for a very fun game, as I get time I may try and contribute back.
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03:00<andythenorth>mion
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03:08<Nite>Hi!
03:08<Nite>who exactly does the limit for terraforming work ... well i will try it anyway right away
03:09<Nite>..how
03:14<Nite>i can only spot "landscapiong at map bordes" by now
03:14<@planetmaker>it has not GUI setting
03:14<@planetmaker>-t
03:16<Nite>ok - so if i do not activate it all is as it was before?
03:17<Nite>... using basecostmod to make landscaping 500K per tile worked well ... btw
03:19<@planetmaker>sore, nothing changed, if you don't impose a limit on the amount of TF
03:19<@planetmaker>arg. *sure
03:19<Nite>where can i read about it
03:20<Nite>?
03:20<Nite>whats the "limit" actually (tilelimit, depthlimit?)
03:21<@planetmaker>it's a terraform per unit time. the cfg file has the two settings. And there's no-where I know that you can read about it.
03:21<@planetmaker>it's a limit on the amount of tiles
03:21<@planetmaker>or rather on the corners changed
03:22<@planetmaker>terraform_per_64k_frames, terraform_frame_burst, clear_per_64k_frames, clear_frame_burst
03:23<@planetmaker>^ those four settings
03:23<Nite>ok so you can only terraform so much per "time"
03:24<Nite>thats rather strange ... see how it works out / will be used
03:31<Nite>cool i can have the old hover behaviour
03:31<@Terkhen>"old"?
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03:48<Nite>boar ej the new acel model is hard
03:48<Nite>teh one of the beta
03:49<@Terkhen>which beta?
03:49<Nite>its like playing with a 4x weightmulti
03:49<Nite>1.1.0 beta3
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03:51<@Terkhen>in beta2 it was even harder (see r21712)
03:51<Nite>whoa
03:52<Nite>i do think that hard is good
03:52<Nite>but "better" is configurable
03:58<Nite>cya
03:58<@Terkhen>heh
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03:58<@Terkhen>check the forum discussions about that
03:58<@Terkhen>bye
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04:31<@peter1138>hi
04:31<@peter1138>so everyone hating/loving/mehing the new acceleration changes?
04:31<@planetmaker>moin Peter
04:32<@planetmaker>nah, you just hear those who complain. as usual.
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04:36<andythenorth>umm
04:36<andythenorth>and me
04:36<andythenorth>much as it was fun to reset all the TE co-efficients in HEQS (again)
04:37<andythenorth>I'd rather not do it any more times
04:37<@peter1138>heh
04:37<andythenorth>it's quite tiresome
04:37<@peter1138>do in ttdpatch ;)
04:37<andythenorth>'do in' as in 'kill it'?
04:39<@peter1138>+it
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04:43<andythenorth>HEQS don't work in ttdpatch
04:43<andythenorth>and no OS X build of ttdpatch
04:43<andythenorth>:P
04:46<@Terkhen>there is a OS X build of dosbox
04:48<Ammler>or wine?
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04:58<@planetmaker>andythenorth, use wine or dosbox
04:58<@planetmaker>wine works for me for TTD.
04:58<andythenorth>meh
04:59<@planetmaker>I haven't managed to get it running on either.
04:59<@planetmaker>it = TTDP
04:59<andythenorth>fool about with wine or crossover, in order to test a grf that doesn't work in the patch?
04:59<andythenorth>he :)
04:59<@planetmaker>I didn't spend an aweful lot of energy or time on it and I'm unfamiliar to those tools otherwise, too. So...
05:00<@planetmaker>not the best indicator. It surely will work with the proper config(s)
05:00<@planetmaker>it just didn't seem worth my time so far ;-)
05:01*andythenorth is drawing boats
05:01<andythenorth>but could do other stuff
05:01<@planetmaker>at least not more than the two hours already invested
05:02<@planetmaker>drawing boats is a good use of your time :-)
05:02<@planetmaker>For sure!
05:02<andythenorth>roadtypes would be too
05:02<andythenorth>so far I've managed to break my compile :D
05:02<@planetmaker>:-D
05:02<@planetmaker>well. you sure have more than one checkout ;-)
05:02<@planetmaker>so...
05:02<andythenorth>I just need to finish the code that moves roadworks counter to m4
05:03<andythenorth>it's not as simple as it looked :P
05:03<@planetmaker>hehe
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05:11<@planetmaker>http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Keine-Einigung-mit-Oracle-Aus-Hudson-wird-wohl-Jenkins-1168046.html <-- dihedral so much for oracle can be trusted wrt Hudson ;-)
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05:11<@planetmaker>the story sounds pretty familiar ;-)
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05:27<andythenorth>are these two ships distinctive with respect to each other?
05:27<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/distinction.png
05:27<@peter1138>er, well, one is much larger ;)
05:28<FauxFaux>Roof.
05:28<@peter1138>but to me they look like the same ship at a different scale
05:28<@peter1138>(minor differences of course)
05:28<andythenorth>hmm
05:28<andythenorth>ships have that effect
05:28<andythenorth>so do bulldozers :P
05:29<andythenorth>would you get confused between the two?
05:29<@planetmaker>andythenorth, no. But the big one needs two cranes
05:29<@planetmaker>The single one cannot unload the ship
05:29<andythenorth>I tried it with two, it looks too busy
05:29<@planetmaker>and then they'd be distinct
05:30<andythenorth>hmm
05:31<@peter1138>yeah
05:33<andythenorth>the two (three) crane version is in this image: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/improved_coaster_3.png
05:34<@peter1138>looks good
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06:18<George><@Yexo> afaik that needs moving the "is reversed" bit from bit 7 to bit 14, which can't be done without a new nfo version -> that would be a solution, but it requires new GRF version that would soon. Having a new var may happen much faster
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06:38<dihedral>planetmaker, not yet worried :-P
06:41<Adambean>anyone use google code svn? i'm wondering if it's just me getting "502 bad gateway" when trying to update
06:41<andythenorth>MB's fishing ground with seagulls is pretty awesome
06:45<@planetmaker>the three-crane-version is not bad
06:45<@planetmaker>andythenorth, then ask him for the graphics and use them as alternate ones for your fishing grounds ;-)
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07:24<Wolf01>hello
07:24<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
07:29<@planetmaker>moin Wolf01
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08:01<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Only the train portion of the accel model was changed, so no work for your RVs :)
08:03<andythenorth>no
08:03<andythenorth>the rv portion changed too
08:03<andythenorth>or I made a horrible mistake :o
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08:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't think xorg using 100% cpu is a good sign...
08:10<@planetmaker>for certain, limited definitions of 'good' it might be.
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like the CPU thinking "finally this sucker gives me something to do!"
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08:12<@planetmaker>yeah. or your power provider.
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09:36<@Belugas>ain't my fault, I swear!
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09:46<@peter1138>uh
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10:09<@Belugas>Lisa Gerrard - The circulation of shadows
10:09<@Belugas>sooo magnificient
10:09<andythenorth>improved: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=139536
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10:10<@planetmaker>yeah, agreed: it's improved :-)
10:13<Wolf01>impressive, looks realistic
10:13<@planetmaker>wrong channel for the 'r'-word, Wolf01 :-P
10:13<@peter1138>NOOOOOO
10:14<Wolf01>the topic doesn't say it :P
10:14<@Belugas>permission granted to Wolf01
10:14<@Belugas>he's not a fanatic R freak
10:14<@planetmaker>peew. Lucky us that we can keep him around ;-)
10:18<andythenorth>ach
10:18<andythenorth>I don't want it to look realistic :(
10:18<andythenorth>I want it to look like a toy
10:18<andythenorth>does the topic say 'roadtypes'?
10:18<@Belugas>brick land, also a wolf contribution :)
10:19<andythenorth>or was roadtypes the 'r'-word?
10:20<andythenorth>so changing references from m7 to m4 in road_map.h isn't simple
10:20<andythenorth>compiler thinks I need to go and change some struct somewhere
10:20<andythenorth>‘struct TileExtended’ has no member named ‘m4’
10:20<andythenorth>which is tiresome :P
10:20<andythenorth>at least the pixels go where I put them and don't answer back
10:20<@planetmaker>yep. m1-m6 are one struct and m7 another
10:21<@planetmaker>it has memory usage reasons
10:21<andythenorth>how dull
10:21<andythenorth>so I have to change references from TileExtended to Tile
10:21<@planetmaker>probably
10:21<@planetmaker>and vice versa
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10:24<andythenorth>hmm
10:24<andythenorth>I can't see what I need to change :o
10:24<@planetmaker>you 'just' need to access the tile struct instead of the tileextended and vice versa
10:25<Hirundo>one is '_m' IIRC, the other has one more letter
10:25<@planetmaker>^
10:25<andythenorth>ah
10:25<andythenorth>that makes sense
10:25<andythenorth>one is _me
10:28<@Belugas>remember to create accessors around your _m manipulations ;)
10:28<@Belugas>but i'm sure you are laready doing that!
10:28<andythenorth>yeah....or...no :o
10:29<andythenorth>accessors are 'AB()' and 'GB()' ?
10:29<frosch123>and make sure to call it new map array, when you are adding a new array for the map :p
10:29<andythenorth>righto
10:29<andythenorth>I shall
10:29<andythenorth>should I add underground metro at the same time?
10:29<@planetmaker>NewNewMapArray...
10:29<@planetmaker>at least
10:29<@Belugas>accessors are rather stuff located in <SOMETBHIGN>_map.h
10:29<@Belugas>like
10:29<andythenorth>how about NewOpenTTD?
10:30<@planetmaker>That's called either p1sim or transporter
10:30<@Belugas>static inline bool IsBridge(TileIndex t)
10:30<andythenorth>ho
10:30<@Belugas>in bridge_map.h
10:30<andythenorth>the accessors already exist - I'm just changing m7 to m4
10:31<@Belugas>idea is not allow the _m or _me access being visible at large, but in a very litlle scope
10:31<@Belugas>ho.. /em shuts up
10:31*Belugas shuts up
10:31<@planetmaker>:-(
10:32<andythenorth>Belugas: explanations are good :)
10:32<andythenorth>I am just blind hacking for now
10:33<andythenorth>seems I didn't break roadworks yet
10:33<andythenorth>but I probably did break savegames :)
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10:35<@Belugas>that is for sure :)
10:35<andythenorth>not sure how that gets fixed :P
10:35<@Belugas>savegame bump
10:35<@Belugas>moving the definition of the old value to the new one
10:36<@Belugas>and incrmenting the version number
10:36<@Belugas>done in.. mmh...
10:36<andythenorth>afterload.cpp ?
10:36<@Belugas>gimme a day or to to remember
10:37<@planetmaker>yes, you need to define an if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(xxx)) { do the conversion stuff }
10:37<@planetmaker>in afterload.cpp
10:38<andythenorth>how do I know the version?
10:39<@Belugas>ha yeah... that..
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10:41<@planetmaker>the (current) savegame version is defined in ... some other file
10:41<andythenorth>heh
10:41<andythenorth>I am too much of a lazy bum for this specific problem :)
10:41-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.5 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only
10:41<@planetmaker>saveload.cpp
10:41<andythenorth>it's like the FIRS compatibility checks - some other kind soul ends up doing them :P
10:41<@planetmaker>oh, without that, you'll not enjoy it, for sure ;-)
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10:45<andythenorth>writing a ticket is almost the same as writing code, yes / no?
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10:46<OTTDmaster>hello
10:48<@planetmaker>hi
10:50-!-Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:50*OTTDmaster goes off to complain to ChillCore about errors in compilation (Including three fatal make errors (I used make -i))
10:50<@Belugas>i was gonna write about writing ticket and coding and need of thinking before writing but... it would be useless to argument
10:50<andythenorth>?
10:51<andythenorth>might not be useless...
10:53<@planetmaker>andythenorth, is that a feature request "add cost balance parameter"? ;-)
10:53<@planetmaker>(I thought the same)
10:54<andythenorth>yes
10:54<andythenorth>I wrote a ticket for it ;)
10:54<@planetmaker>:-P
10:55*andythenorth wonders what to do next for roadtypes
10:55-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8412.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
10:55<@planetmaker>on the other hand I see no need to balance FISH against other ship sets (yet)
10:55<andythenorth>I need all the new extra bits in the tile I guess
10:55<@Belugas>[10:45] <andythenorth> writing a ticket is almost the same as writing code, yes / no? <-- yes. but both would need to have a good and long thinking before actually writing code/words in order for the stuff to be acceptable
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10:56<@planetmaker>andythenorth, you need 16(?!) bits
10:56<@planetmaker>Na. 4 per type are sufficient
10:56-!-X-2 [~X-2@a82-95-91-139.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:56<@planetmaker>and if you want... another 4 indeed for the owner(s)
10:57<@planetmaker>so yes :-P
10:58<andythenorth>planetmaker: I meant I need to start setting them to something useful ;)
10:58<andythenorth>there are now enough :)
11:00<andythenorth>hmm
11:05*andythenorth wimps out of that particular challenge right now
11:05<andythenorth>there are a lot methods that would need updating to account for having 2 roadtype slots
11:06<@planetmaker>even the longest journey starts with a first step ;-)
11:07<andythenorth>I'll go stare at the code in a bit
11:07<andythenorth>I seem to need to stare it for a while before starting any cde
11:08<@Terkhen>changing code to see what gets broken is also helpful
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11:17<nicfer>what new features is going to have openttd 1.1.0?
11:18<@Terkhen>nicfer: check the changelog
11:18<nicfer>which one? the beta1 one?
11:19<@Terkhen>beta3, since some features have been included between the betas
11:20<@Terkhen>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/export/21769/trunk/changelog.txt <--- the trunk changelog lists them as well
11:23<nicfer>the roadmap in the wiki is VERY outdated
11:24<@Terkhen>check the talk page of the roadmap
11:25<nicfer>there's no discussion going on there
11:25<nicfer>http://wiki.openttd.org/Roadmap_1.1
11:26<@Terkhen>I was talking about the roadmap page, not roadmap_1.1
11:27<nicfer>there's only old discussions
11:27<@Terkhen>old is not the same as unrelated :)
11:29<@Terkhen>http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features <--- as you can see in the roadmap discussion, the page is locked to prevent it from becoming something like this
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12:36<fMads>hey.. I got problems with installing NewGRF on my server - can anyone help?
12:36<OTTDmaster>what newgrfs?
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12:36<fMads>aveimils_pigm-0.5.1
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12:37<OTTDmaster>what version
12:37<OTTDmaster>of openttd
12:37<fMads>1.0.5
12:37<OTTDmaster>I would do the newgrfs first, before generating the game
12:38<fMads>I've downloaded it from the content system via the console.. But, what next? :s Insert it into the cfg?
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12:41<OTTDmaster>Is there a live game running?
12:41<fMads>my server?
12:41<OTTDmaster>yes
12:42<fMads>yes.. STS-LanOpenTTD
12:42<OTTDmaster>ok
12:42<OTTDmaster>Are there players on it?
12:42<fMads>not now
12:42<OTTDmaster>stop the game
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12:43<fMads>yes
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12:43<fMads>Stopped
12:44<OTTDmaster>go to newgrf settings (under the spanner , for lack of a better word.)
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12:44<fMads>it's runing on a maschine without UI
12:45<OTTDmaster>ok - lose the game altogether
12:45<fMads>I've got the cfg, is thats usefule?
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12:45<fMads>ok
12:45<OTTDmaster>Go and do your stuff on a GUI-enabled release, including the newgrfs
12:45<OTTDmaster>save the game
12:46<OTTDmaster>and then load that save on the dedicated release
12:46<OTTDmaster>that should do it
12:46<OTTDmaster>(I think :| )
12:46<fMads>I'll try..
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12:54<fMads>it works :) but, you don't know a way to implement it into the cfg and load it from there? I use a php-script to generate cfg to different settings..
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12:54<OTTDmaster>yes there is a way, but there are two problems
12:55<OTTDmaster>first you need to open a text editor, find the title, etc. and it's really long
12:56<OTTDmaster>secondly changes to a running game are *DANGEROUS*
12:56<fMads>fint what title? I found the newgrf-settings in the cfg file i used on the gui-pc.. but, when i try the cfg on the server, it can't find the newgrf-file :/
12:57<OTTDmaster>though I'm not sure whether the game reads the .cfg during a game
12:58<Wolf01>back on the NADP project, I hope to be able to do something useful today
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12:58<fMads>i only reload the cfg when i restart the server..
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13:04<@Rubidium>fMads: OpenTTD needs the right path to the NewGRF in the configuration file under the (IIRC) [newgrfs] section.
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13:05<fMads>Do you know where the NewGRF .tar-file should be on ubuntu? I've tried different folders, but always get "ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF 'AveiMils_PIGM-0.5.1\AveiMil_PIGM.grf': not found"
13:05<@Rubidium>fMads: try replacing the \ with a /
13:06<fMads>That did it :D Thanks! And to you OTTDmaster also :)
13:06<Wolf01>how do I save a variable in the savegame?
13:07<OTTDmaster>;) No problem!
13:09<Wolf01>I think I must use WriteValue and ReadValue, but I'm not sure
13:11<Wolf01>or are the SlWriteByte and sisters?
13:11<frosch123>a single variable?
13:11<Wolf01>yes
13:11<Wolf01>the date
13:12<frosch123>misc_sl.cpp
13:12<frosch123>add it to _date_desc and _date_check_desc
13:12<Wolf01>oh, good, thank you
13:12<frosch123>with appropiate savegame version number of course
13:13<Wolf01>yes, that was the first thing I did
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13:20<Wolf01>mmmh, probably I messed up something, I can't understand why it asserts on fract < DAY_TICKS :/
13:21*OTTDmaster feels sorry for Wolf01
13:21<Wolf01>ah, broken savegame... made with the old daylength patch
13:21<@planetmaker>:-D
13:22<@planetmaker>I probably once should also purge my savegame dir. There's so much crap around...
13:22<@planetmaker>half of it will crash openttd
13:23-!-DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd
13:24<DanMacK>Hey all
13:25<Wolf01>it's interesting how the time passes... I saved the game on Jan 22nd, loaded it and is Feb 22nd :P
13:26<Wolf01>now I must really load the variable instead of throw its value away
13:26<OTTDmaster>Argh! The daylength patch means I'm in Feb 12th D:
13:26<OTTDmaster>:P
13:27<Wolf01>this is not the daylenth patch
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13:32<Wolf01>gah, followed the references, the functions was 10 lines under my last modify :E
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13:36<OTTDmaster>hello LordAro?
13:36<LordAro>hello OTTDmaster :)
13:37<Wolf01>ok, at least in the fileio gui shows the right month
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13:38<Wolf01>but I really can't understand how to put the new _load_check_data.fake_date variable to _fake_date global variable :/
13:41<dihedral>hello
13:41<Wolf01>hello dih
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13:45<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=924382#p924382 <- wtf
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r21770 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt portuguese.txt serbian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latvian - 135 changes by dzhins
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: portuguese - 4 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: serbian - 1 changes by etran
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13:47<dihedral>can we rename bugs.openttd.org to george.openttd.org?
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13:51<Nite>Hi
13:53<Nite>will setting autoservice off for trains individually ever be implemented ? (or is it in the beta and i didnt get it?)
13:53*planetmaker loves questions like 'will XY be implemented'
13:54<Nite>so it isnt there or is it?
13:55<@planetmaker>afaik it's a global setting
13:55<@planetmaker>but you can always give a train explicit service orders. then it won't be subject to automatic service orders anymore
13:56<Nite>true that but before that i have to set a high number for service intervall (like 800)
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13:56<Nite>thats a lot of klicking
13:57<Nite>a infinite or zero setting per singel klick is what i imagine
13:57<Nite>you cant even type the days in
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13:58<Nite>just would be very small but nice to have it
13:58<__ln__>the rumours of my ping timeout are greatly exaggerated
13:59<+glx>there's a setting for default service interval IIRC
13:59-!-fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Quit: fmauneko]
13:59<Nite>true
13:59<frosch123>[19:38] <Wolf01> but I really can't understand how to put the new _load_check_data.fake_date variable to _fake_date global variable :/ <- you don't
14:00<frosch123>_date_check_desc is for _load_check_data.fake_date, _date_desc is for _fake_date
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14:00<Wolf01>then it should already bork, but it doesn't :(
14:00<Nite>thats the thing: you can only off autoservice global/server side and only if breakdowns are off
14:01<frosch123>don't mess them up, else you modify the current game while selecting another game in the save dialog
14:01<Nite>well i get around by klicking - a lot ...
14:02<Nite>well - well
14:02<Nite>ahem i got that out now - cya
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14:04<Wolf01>frosch123: http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/NADP_r21769_v0.4.diff
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14:06<LordAro>[18:45] dihedral: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=924382#p924382 <- wtf <-- give him a chance, he's learning, and i don't think he understands the importance of lmza/xz yet... :)
14:07*Wolf01 hunting time
14:07<dihedral>esp not on the server end - but then it's not quite the moment to spread such a horrible advice
14:07<dihedral>it's utter bullshit
14:09<LordAro>that is true :) i'll tell him next time
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15:14<bash0r>salut
15:15<dihedral>that nick's just calling for it
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15:15<@Rubidium>good evening bash0r
15:15<@planetmaker>moin
15:16<dihedral><- should go on sensetivity training :-P
15:16<@planetmaker>dihedral: yes
15:17<dihedral>:-)
15:17<dihedral>perhaps next time i realize a little earlier :-D
15:18<@planetmaker>bash0r: care to follow my invite? :-)
15:19<bash0r>a bit busy ...now
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15:19<@planetmaker>oi, ok :-) Well. We'll stay in that channel
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15:28<Eddi|zuHause>"if there were elections next sunday, the FDP (liberals) will not reach the 5% barrier"
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>"sadly, there are never elections when you need them"
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15:29<@planetmaker>:-D
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>the real question is: if there actually were elections, what would you do then? with 46%, the red/green coalition wouldn't have a majority either
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>they _really_ won't let the left take part in a government in the next 20 years...
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15:45<__ln__>http://superuser.com/questions/231273/what-are-the-windows-a-and-b-drives-used-for
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15:48<Eddi|zuHause>hysterical raisins
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15:50<dihedral>what if they just asked all the wrong people for that calculation? :-P
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16:12<supermop>hello
16:12<dihedral>hello :-)
16:12<dihedral>planetmaker, how was that :-P
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16:13<supermop>hi andy
16:13<@planetmaker>lovely :)
16:14<andythenorth>hola
16:15*andythenorth seeks commits
16:15<supermop>what amazing things can I eavesdrop on today?
16:15<@Terkhen>hola andythenorth
16:16<andythenorth>Terkhen: we could set up an rv-wagons repo :o
16:16<andythenorth>it's almost like writing the actual code
16:16<andythenorth>or alternatively, it's good procrastination technique :P
16:16<@Terkhen>but without doing anything either complicated or useful... I like that
16:16<andythenorth>like my endless boxes of lego for models I don't have time to build :P
16:17<@Terkhen>:D
16:17<@Terkhen>I still have to check the code related to our last discussion
16:19<@Terkhen>honestly, I don't know where to start, as there are too much things to modify
16:20<@Terkhen>perhaps adding the required functions and data structures to the RoadVehicle class without actually using them could be a good start
16:20<@Terkhen>or even better, unifying them into GroundVehicle
16:20-!-DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22<andythenorth>Terkhen: build one to throw away?
16:22<andythenorth>i.e. hack at it until you've figured out how to do it?
16:23<andythenorth>shall we set up a repo?
16:23<andythenorth>at the moment I'm only really interested in doing collaborative stuff....so I'd be very happy to hack at it with you
16:24<dihedral>good night
16:24<frosch123>unifiying the HasArticulatedPart/GetNextArticPart would be nice
16:24<@Rubidium>andythenorth: are you good at drawing in the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe style?
16:24<frosch123>but they would need to include ships and aircraft
16:24<@Terkhen>hmm... I'm not sure if a repo is needed... as long as we do unification codechanges they can be standalone
16:24<@Terkhen>good night dihedral
16:24<andythenorth>Rubidium: I try to be
16:24<andythenorth>some people say I'm not :
16:24<andythenorth>:P
16:24<frosch123>e.g. take a look at the loop in IsArticulatedVehicleCarryingDifferentCargos()
16:25<frosch123>there are lots of functions with such weird switch cases
16:25<@Terkhen>let's see, but the name is already scary
16:26<@Rubidium>andythenorth: you could collaborate on the 1.1 release by trying to draw reasonable river graphics ;)
16:26<frosch123>you can find the same in CmdCloneVehicle :)
16:26<andythenorth>water is a pig to draw
16:26<andythenorth>are these for openttd.grf?
16:26<andythenorth>i.e. *not* openGFX style
16:26<@Rubidium>andythenorth: yes, for openttd.grf
16:27<@Rubidium>and it's mostly the edges and the "waterfall"
16:27<andythenorth>I could have a go
16:27<andythenorth>I won't start it tonight
16:28<andythenorth>I'm away this weekend, but remind me next week and I'll do it
16:28<andythenorth>I had to learn to draw water for the FIRS sand pit
16:28<@Rubidium>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/raw-file/07ece6c1656d/sprites/png/waterfeatures.png <- some inspiration of the sprites that'd be needed
16:28<@Terkhen>IsArticulatedVehicleCarryingDifferentCargos does not seem very complicated, but CmdCloneVehicle deals with reverse direction code
16:28<@Terkhen>and I couldn't understand at all the road vehicle implementation last time I checked it
16:29<@Terkhen>but that's something that would be nice to have unified to
16:29<@Terkhen>too*
16:29<andythenorth>Rubidium does the river need to flow?
16:29<andythenorth>the current ones look weird due to the flow
16:29<@Rubidium>only on the waterfalls I'd say
16:29<supermop>watertypes?
16:29<frosch123>Terkhen: i just mean those if train then Train::GetNextAtricPart, if rv then RoadVehicle::GetNextArticPart, else NULL
16:30<andythenorth>supermop: if I ever achieve roadtypes, I might look at watertypes
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16:30<andythenorth>but currently that's a *loooong* way off
16:31<@Terkhen>if all vehicles get a GetNextArticPart function that should be trivial to unify
16:31<supermop>i am taking random guesses at why you are being enlisted to draw ogfx water
16:32<@Terkhen>OpenGFX already has rivers
16:32<@Rubidium>supermop: what makes you think it's for OpenGFX?
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16:34<supermop>Rubidium: wild and irresponsible speculation
16:34<andythenorth>this is just to improve current rivers isn't it?
16:34<andythenorth>i.e. provide river banks?
16:34<supermop>ah ha
16:34<@Rubidium>andythenorth: yes
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16:37<Wolf01>'night
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17:02<@Terkhen>good night
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17:04<@planetmaker>g'night Terkhen
17:04<Zuu>Dho. So I've made myself the burden of booting up my old computer only to find out I already got the OTTDAU sources on the desktop of my current computer. :-D
17:05<Zuu>Good night Terkhen
17:06<andythenorth>good night
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm still reading "ott DAU" every time you say that :p
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17:09<Zuu>hehe
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17:10*Zuu figures I "should" use extra electricity when the non-fixed electricity price is high to make up for my fixed rate :-)
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17:27<supermop>Zuu: get some pumped storage
17:28<Zuu>pumped?
17:28<Zuu>Ah you mean for puting heat in the ground?
17:28<Zuu>That's hard when you live in an apartment.
17:29<supermop>what I meant is even harder:
17:30<supermop>use your 'cheap' electricity to pump water up a mountain, then if your rate goes up, let it drive a turbine on the way down
17:33*Prof_Frink gives supermop an electric mountain
17:35<George>Do running cost affect wagons? So, if non 0 running cost is set to a wagon, would the running cost of a train be higher?
17:37<Zuu>supermop: That will not work as I pay the same rate all year around. Or well. I haven't received a bill yet but I suppose I will get one some day (moved in 3-4 months ago).
17:38<supermop>yes, sell the rest to your neighbors
17:38<supermop>or store it on that mountain for a long time
17:41*DanMacK hasn't seen running costs on wagons before
17:41<frosch123>George: might work, try it. but you likely also need to assign a running cost base
17:42<frosch123>it won't work for articulated parts btw.
17:43-!-a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:43<DanMacK>hey George, was the xUSSR landscape ever released as a grf file?
17:43<George>you mean that I have to specify running cost for the whole articulated wagon for the first part, while the rest parts would have it 0
17:44<George>DanMacK: Alpha version was
17:44<frosch123>yes, that is also written in the specs
17:44<DanMacK>it avaialble anywhere?
17:44<frosch123>see the column "available for articulated parts"
17:45<supermop>DanMack, doesn't 2cc set have wagon running costs?
17:45<George>DanMacK: If I'm not mistaken - http://george.zernebok.net/download/xUSSRstaticobjectsw.rar
17:46<DanMacK>supermop, don't know, haven't used it
17:48<DanMacK>Thansk George, looking forward to using it with the Russian set
17:49<George>Under development
17:50<George>FS#4399 would help me a lot
17:50<George>And even more :)
17:55<DanMacK>What's #4399?
17:56<@Yexo>@bug 4399
17:56<@DorpsGek>Yexo: Temporary Offline
17:56<@Yexo>@fs 4399
17:56<@DorpsGek>Yexo: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4399
17:56<@SmatZ>@help bug
17:56<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
17:56<@SmatZ>bah
17:56<__ln__>DorpsGek: did you mean: temporarily
17:57<@Yexo>George: can't you get the id of the first part already with var C9 via the related type?
17:57<@DorpsGek>__ln__: yes, sorry, I meant temporarily , thanks for correcting me
17:58<frosch123>not work wagons
17:58<frosch123>only for front engines
17:58<frosch123>and both will not work in purchase list
17:58<frosch123>so i quite favour to finally get some solution for articulated ids >= 7F :)
17:59<George>frosch123: COOL!
18:00*Zuu found out that r21635 broke OTTDAU which rely on the existence of "Development" string in the version string to detect trunk versions. A OTTDAU-change is quite trivial though but needs client modification.
18:01<@Yexo>frosch123: any specific ideas on how to do that?
18:01<frosch123>either trash the work-intensive parts from version 8, and just do the rest
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: didn't you build an OTTDAUAU into OTTDAU? ;)
18:01<frosch123>or add some bit in some misc-property to indicate the new callback result format
18:01<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: Yes I did :-)
18:02<Hirundo>what parts of version 8 would qualify as work-intensive?
18:02<frosch123>the "bool"-callback result stuff
18:02<frosch123>the rest is quite easy resp. already archieved via action14
18:03<Zuu>Only problem is that it will no longer be able to differentiate between branch and trunk nightlies, though I would be suprised if we see anymore SVN branches.
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>version-8-related questions: are there any plans to do away with the bit-15-marks-callback-result weirdness?
18:04<Zuu>Hmm, wrong by me
18:04<Hirundo>from an NML point of view, moving all 'special' result values to >=0x400, thus making the full D000-D3FF range available would be quite useful
18:04<Zuu>the SVN branches also had "Development" in their version string.
18:04<Zuu>So I sholud shut up and make my change ;-)
18:05<frosch123>i guess the rest is: default cargo as cargo bit, remove the 0xffxy old-callback result, move mirror bit of articulated parts to bit 14, always call callback 15 also when not refitted
18:05<frosch123>oh, and no more fallback stuff for cost multipliers
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: development shifted kinda to hg rather than svn-branches
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>but that doesn't mean there won't be any branches in the future
18:06<Zuu>Indeed
18:06<Zuu>so it is not really anything worth to consider.
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18:06<Hirundo>what's so bad about the bool CB stuff?
18:06<Zuu>and even still they use the shema of r<number>-<branch> so they are able to separate from trunk nightlies.
18:07<frosch123>most of them are result == 0 resp. result != 0
18:07<frosch123>if they were == 0 and == 1 you could return more stuff
18:07<frosch123>e.g. autoslope callbacks are hillariously useless
18:08-!-enr1x [~kiike@95.23.103.223] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:08<frosch123>and cb 19, 1d, 31, an 37 need some unifying wrt. special results
18:10<frosch123>yeah, quite what you say. making everything >= 400 would be nice
18:11<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i am quite sure the next branch will be called 1.1
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: those are release branches, not development branches ;)
18:12<Hirundo>ah bummer, I'd surely have expected the NewAwesomeMapArray branch before 1.1
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>i was gonna say that... "development branches" are things like "newmap" or "cargodest" ;)
18:13<DanMacK>George, you working on a new train set?
18:13<George>New? xUSSR is an OLD project
18:13<frosch123>we could also make the action14 palette information mandatory for version 8
18:14<DanMacK>just wondering what wagons were gettign the running costs :)
18:14<George>Powered. For example refs
18:15<DanMacK>ahhhh, gotcha
18:15<DanMacK>Interesting idea...
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18:18<frosch123>night
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18:23<DanMacK>That for an actual set or just a general question? lol
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18:30<Zuu>Sweet comment "// If there is a compilation error here - try Shift + F9 or Ctrl + F9" :-D
18:31<Zuu>Worked this time too
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like stuff related to random/incorrect compilation order...
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>or missing dependencuies that will get handled by making a full recompile
18:32<DanMacK>Night all
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>"Network bandwidth may be low" <-- geez... tell me something i don't know...
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18:56<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
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20:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure why, but i have some kind of problem with the abbreviation "NADP"
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 13 00:00:23 2011