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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-01-16

---Logopened Sun Jan 16 00:00:29 2011
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03:19<@planetmaker>moin
03:19<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:48<@Terkhen>hmm... how can I edit gender names in WT3?
04:51<@Rubidium>not
04:51<@Rubidium>you can via a commit to the language file
04:52<kamnet>Good morning
04:53<@Terkhen>hmm... I see
04:53-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2A39.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:53<@Terkhen>"masculino" and "femenino" are too long to be practical
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05:09<kamnet>Arrrrrgh. I just did something STOOPID
05:10<kamnet>Spent the last 3 hours working on a nice scenario, and before I saved it I thought I'd try to take a screenshot. Now the game isn't responding. :-(
05:11<@Rubidium>I guess you're making a whole map screenshot
05:11<@Alberth>a full screenshot is very big, and takes some time
05:12<kamnet>Yes, first time I tried it. Was just wanting the overview of the map
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05:13<SpComb>kamnet: it's a full 1:1 screenshot of the whole map, not an overview
05:13<kamnet>OK it's done. Took almost 10 minutes.
05:13<SpComb>better to just zoom out and take a normal screenshot if that's what you want
05:13<SpComb>kamnet: don't try and open it, or your computer will freeze up again :)
05:14-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B11B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
05:14<kamnet>It's only a 270kb file... :-)
05:14<@Alberth>why don't users recognize the difference between a hard working computer and a frozen one :p
05:14<kamnet>It's Windows...
05:15<kamnet>and in the middle of it I got a [Not Responding] message in the title bar. So, hard to figure out
05:17<kamnet>Now I just need a name for this...
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05:20<@Alberth>a;sojbvhbjhec;wo8mjbhoetvm ?
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05:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21817 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Change: only show rail/road types that will eventually be available in-game. For example don't show trams when there is no tram NewGRF loaded
05:27<kamnet>Hm, if I import a save game as a scenario, is there a way to see what configuration settings were used to create the original save game? Such as sea level, terrain type, etc?
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05:39<@Alberth>slaca: it is working now satisfactory?
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05:41<ZirconiumX>hello
05:42<kamnet>good morning
05:43*ZirconiumX has finished source grabbing racing - the winner is svn
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05:44<@Alberth>duh
05:45<ZirconiumX>svn took 3 seconds - while hg took almost 2 minutes :O
05:45<@Alberth>svn just pulls the current revision, instead of the entire history
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05:45<ZirconiumX>I directed hg to the specific revision
05:46<@Rubidium>ZirconiumX: now update to r20000 ;)
05:46<@Alberth>but with hg, you can do local history search, and you have patch queues
05:46<@Rubidium>or blame some file
05:46<ZirconiumX>I used r 21765
05:47<ZirconiumX>I think the slowness is due to the fact it uses Python
05:47*ZirconiumX isn't sure though
05:47<@Alberth>no, the network is not fast enough :)
05:47<@Alberth>as soon as you do I, speed of the language is largely irrelevant
05:47<@Terkhen>ZirconiumX: now try to update to an earlier revision with both repositories
05:47<@Alberth>*IO
05:47<ZirconiumX>I didn't try git - I'm not sure if it works on mac
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05:48<@Rubidium>ZirconiumX: hg is slow because it initially checks out all 17069 revisions instead of 1
05:48<@Rubidium>so...
05:48<@Rubidium>@calc 3/1
05:48<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 3
05:48<ZirconiumX>@Terkhen - I can't
05:48<@Rubidium>@calc 120/17069
05:48<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 0.0070302888277
05:48<fjb>Moin
05:48<@Rubidium>hg is *much* faster, as it only takes 0.007 seconds per revision
05:49<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: sure you can: hg up -r 20000 or svn up -r 20000
05:49<@Rubidium>@calc 3/(120/17069)
05:49<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 426.725
05:49<@Rubidium>so it's a mere 400 times faster
05:49<ZirconiumX>Alberth: Can you get the svn version while compiling?
05:49<ZirconiumX>I'm compiling - so I can't
05:49<@Terkhen>open another shell
05:50*ZirconiumX has three shells running
05:50<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: I have normally 3 or 4 shells open
05:50<@SmatZ>ctrl+z sleeps the currently running proces
05:50<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: if you need to do something, just open a new shell :)
05:50<ZirconiumX>Alberth - how many cores does your comp have
05:51<@SmatZ>fg or bg revives it
05:51<@SmatZ>ZirconiumX: shell itself is eating like 0% of CPU power when you aren't doing anything there
05:51<@Alberth>1 dual core, but who cares? the machine will schedule it
05:52<@Alberth>you start a compilation, then go do something else
05:52<ZirconiumX>SVN wins - hg wants the exact location
05:52<ZirconiumX>so it quits
05:52<Prof_Frink>Or just use screen, and have a shellful of shells.
05:52<@Alberth>? you must be in the directory created by hg
05:53<@Alberth>and not have unsaved changes there :)
05:53*ZirconiumX did some cleaning up afterwards
05:53<ZirconiumX>so I have to go back to the hg repos
05:53*ZirconiumX is annoyed
05:54<@Rubidium>svn: head -> r1: 2.9s, r1 -> head: 42.7s, hg: head -> r1: 0.4s, r1 -> head: 3.9s
05:54<@Rubidium>all realtime
05:55<@Rubidium>0.9, 3.0, 0.3, 3.7 user time (excluding user time at the server side for svn)
05:55<@SmatZ>your hdd is blazingly fast
05:56<@Alberth>disk cache :)
06:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r21818 /trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt: -Change: Rename the genders of the spanish translation.
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06:03<@SmatZ>Terkhen: tired of typing long gender names? :)
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06:04<@planetmaker>:-) I'd be annoyed by the previously long names ;-)
06:04<@Terkhen>no, the spanish translation currently makes no use of genders at all... the previous translator never added a single gender string and I have not decided to check the complete thing until today
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06:05<@Terkhen>it's going to be a long, boring day
06:05<@SmatZ>:(
06:05<@planetmaker>;-)
06:05<@Terkhen>:P
06:05<@planetmaker>Terkhen: but you should be able to easily search for masculino / feminino in the WT3, so... not that long, or?
06:06<@Terkhen>the strings don't use {G ..., they are just translated always in the same gender ("nuevo" instead of "nuev{G o a}", for example)
06:07<@Terkhen>I'll check the translations of similar languages and start adding genders everywhere
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06:11<@planetmaker>oh dear...
06:11<@planetmaker>ok, enjoy :P
06:12<@Terkhen>thanks :D
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06:19*ZirconiumX wonders what people have as their prompt on Terminal, and what their favorite shell is
06:20<@Alberth>90% uses whatever the default is
06:20<ZirconiumX>(probably BASH, but if using 10.2 or lower TCSH)
06:21<ZirconiumX>the other 10% being
06:21<@Alberth>since bash is broken w.r.t. filenames with white-space, I use zsh, and have %S%n:%2/%#%s as prompt definition
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06:28*ZirconiumX decides to use wkdir:\w usr:\u ?
06:30<@Alberth>hmm, %n (user name) is somewhat useless, perhaps I should drop it :)
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06:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r21819 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: Swap order of HandleMouseDrag() and HandleDragDrop(), and split the w vardecl in the former.
06:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r21820 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: Concatenate both functions.
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06:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r21821 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: Clean up the jump conditions.
06:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r21822 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: Merge event handling code.
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07:57<Wolf01>hello
07:57<@SmatZ>hello Wolf01
07:57<Ammler>hello World
07:58<Wolf01>hello kitty
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08:07<kamnet>Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal!
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08:16<Yoshi>hello
08:17<@Alberth>hello
08:18<Yoshi>Question:
08:18<Katje>answer
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08:18<Yoshi>When i encode a grf
08:18<Yoshi>grfcodec says "Cannot read true colour png file!"
08:19<Yoshi>How can i solve that?
08:19<@Alberth>don't give it a true colour png file :)
08:19<Yoshi>what else?
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08:20<@Alberth>you need to give it an indexed file, with the palette as defined by openttd/ttdp
08:20<Yoshi>how doing that?
08:20<@Alberth>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=PalettesAndCoordinates
08:21<@Alberth>depends on your paint program, you have about 99% chance I never used your program
08:22<Yoshi>first try was ms paint!
08:25<frosch123>maybe take a png from an other existing grf, and paste your graphics into there
08:25<frosch123>maybe mspaint does not mess up the palette of existing pngs
08:26<@Terkhen>ms paint will save all indexed pngs (pngs with palette) as true colour pngs
08:26<@Terkhen>at least in windows 7
08:27<@Terkhen>Yoshi: I use GIMP to save the PNG files with this palette: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/2
08:29<Yoshi>put in witch directory?
08:30<@Terkhen>put what?
08:30<Yoshi>the gimp palette
08:30<@Terkhen>it does not matter, download it anywhere and import it into gimp
08:31<kamnet>GIMP has a slight learning curve, but I've learned to appreciate it. :-)
08:33<kamnet>maybe one day somebody will write a nice simple GRF creation package that includes a nice PCX/PNG editor.
08:33<@Terkhen>with GIMP the only thing I can do is converting a PNG into an indexed PNG
08:35<kamnet>I do all of my pixel editing in it now
08:35<Yoshi>how can i import?
08:36<@Terkhen>Yoshi: I can't walkthrough you over all the process now, search for "import gimp palette" in google
08:36<Yoshi>ok
08:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r21823 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Documentation: update the style used in several documentation files
08:37<kamnet>Go to Image -> Mode -> Indexed, under Colormap select Use Custom Palette, click the button right under that and select the TTD palette.
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>the eassiest way is to just open a file created by grfcodec
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>and on saving, make sure the "remove unused colours" checkbox is off
08:40<kamnet>That's what I did until I learned how to convert a fiel to the indexed palette.
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08:46<Eddi|zuHause>converting is tricky
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>because gimp doesn't know that it shouldn't use the special colours like water or fire animation
08:48<Yoshi>it works, thanks
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09:46<Yoshi>bye and ones more thanks!
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11:30<Yoshi>hello
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11:30<Yoshi>Does somebody know the vehicle id of the normal post waggon
11:31<Yoshi>?
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure there are wiki pages for that
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>and NML should have "descriptive" names for these instances
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11:32<Yoshi>i searched for, but i didn't find it!
11:33<Eddi|zuHause> 28 : "TTDMailWagon", # Mail Van
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>from my ancient NDL sources
11:33<Hirundo>both NML reference and TTDP wiki should contain the information you need
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11:33<Eddi|zuHause>that's 28 (dec)
11:34<frosch123>the newgrf wiki does
11:34<Eddi|zuHause># http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VehicleIDs
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>also from my NDL sources
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12:08<rudi_s>Hi. Do goods have a destination or are they accepted at each station (accepting the good)?
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause>the latter
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>there's development effort to implement the former, but it's not easy
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12:12<rudi_s>Thanks.
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12:16-!-Timmaexx [~tim@port-92-201-96-217.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
12:17<Timmaexx>Good Evening
12:18<ZirconiumX>evening
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12:39*ZirconiumX has just played a very good move on Mornington Crescent
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13:00<ZirconiumX>hmmm
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13:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r21824 /trunk/src/ground_vehicle.hpp: -Codechange: don't call GetSlopeZ() when the ground vehicle is on a flat tile
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r21825 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: catalan - 4 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by SmatZ
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: estonian - 1 changes by notAbot
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
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14:16<yorick>http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Avoiding-Continuums-Bits.aspx#PPic3 <-- heh just found this one
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14:35<dihedral>hehe
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>i remember that
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15:00<Nite>Hi
15:00<kamnet>Good afternoon
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15:01<Nite>*gg* @ latest version ...
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>what's a "latest version"?
15:06<Nite>opposite of the "earliest version"
15:06<@planetmaker>and which of the about 4 'latest' do you talk of?
15:06<@planetmaker>good evening also
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>i think there are significantly more than 4
15:07<Nite>well ... "THE" latest version *g*
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, anyone talking about "the latest version" without further specification is laughable
15:10<Nite>is "latest beta" or "latest stable" valid ? ;)
15:10<Zuu>Both are valid, but not the same thing.
15:11<@planetmaker>they're also time-variable descriptions
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15:42-!-DarkTomas [darktomas@95-89-124-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
15:43<DarkTomas>Hello Guy i need help how i can make a new grf?
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15:45<@planetmaker>read http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/index.html and http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=26 and http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=68 and http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs
15:46<DarkTomas>i need c++ skills?
15:47<@planetmaker>no
15:47<@planetmaker>did any of those links suggest that?
15:47<DarkTomas>wait im read^^
15:48<DarkTomas>hm i only want to make that stations dont lost resources after time
15:48<@planetmaker>the first is the docs of a programming language which can be used to write newgrfs in. The last is the newgrf specifications.
15:48<@planetmaker>ho. You cannot newgrf that.
15:48<DarkTomas>O:
15:49<DarkTomas>thats not nic
15:49<DarkTomas>nice*
15:50<dihedral>fix it
15:50<DarkTomas>?
15:50<dihedral>^^
15:51<DarkTomas>its possible to make new industries with grfs but not my ideaß
15:51<DarkTomas>?
15:52<dihedral>my ideas don't fit in newgrfs either
15:54<andythenorth>my ideas don't fit in newgrfs either :(
15:54<Nite>a depot kind of industry should be possible with newgrf
15:54<Nite>(not train depot but freight depot)
15:56<DarkTomas>yes that im need to store resources
15:56<DarkTomas>its now possible or not?
15:56<@planetmaker>they'll decay
15:57<DarkTomas>yes thats the problem i dont want this
15:57<Wolf01>'night
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15:58<@planetmaker>DarkTomas: then go and change the station / cargo code within OpenTTD
15:59<DarkTomas>?
15:59<DarkTomas>you mean in the source?
15:59<@planetmaker>you can also try to hack the binaries...
15:59<@planetmaker>OpenTTDPatch :-D
16:00<DarkTomas>ok now im confused what you menß
16:00<@planetmaker>but yes!
16:00<@planetmaker>where else
16:00<DarkTomas>mean?
16:03<@planetmaker>DarkTomas: if you want that, you have to go and modify OpenTTD's source yourself.
16:05<DarkTomas>ok that i dont can
16:05<FauxFaux>planetmaker: Debug symbols are provided; far too easy.
16:06<@planetmaker>FauxFaux: just compile a release binary :-P
16:07<Eddi|zuHause><DarkTomas> hm i only want to make that stations dont lost resources after time <-- i think there is a newgrf callback for custom station rating calculation. if you make sure that never goes below 50%, cargo will not disappear (unless there's a lot of it)
16:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21826 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#4007]: the expectations from the "always build infrastructure" setting name/description didn't match the behaviour
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if that is actually supported in OpenTTD, though
16:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21827 /trunk/src/lang/ (48 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove string removed in r21826 from other languages too
16:12<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I *think* not. But one might need to check the source
16:14<@Yexo>DarkTomas: just keep your station ratings above 50% and cargo will only start to disappear once you have over 4096 units of one cargo type at a station
16:14<@Yexo>50% rating should be easy to achieve
16:17<DarkTomas>ok+
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16:41<@planetmaker>I'm always amazed at Zuu's hostmask. It always lets me think that he owns his own private station ;-)
16:45<Zuu_>Hehe
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16:52<Nite>about the dissapearing cargo; its not Warehouse Tycoon ...
17:02<Zuu>planetmaker: Unfortenately I don't have my private station. It's just the name of my ISP.
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17:05<@planetmaker>he, too sad ;-)
17:05<@planetmaker>but does the name mean the same in Swedish as in German?
17:06<__ln__>it's not even swedish
17:06<Zuu>Indeed, we don't have that word in swedish.
17:06<__ln__>bahnhof in swedish is järnvägstation
17:09<Zuu>If I wouldn't have travelled in Germany or had knew the name of DB, I wouldn't have an idea what bahnhof means.
17:12<Zuu>Though, we do have "bana" which I think is what bahn means but I'm not sure as I haven't looked up bahn in a directory.
17:13<__ln__>bana is the same as Bahn, yes.
17:13<__ln__>maybe not in every possible sense, but mostly.
17:13<Zuu>It's a non-technical term for a track without specifying what kind of track (eg rail, flum ride track, etc. )
17:16<Zuu>A runway for example is a "landningsbana" eg. a landing bahn.
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17:37<@Terkhen>good night
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17:37<@Rubidium>night Terkhen
17:39<Nite>you know whats strange
17:40<Nite>that if u password your companies u have only to type your pw once (no verify)
17:40<Nite>what if u input "fajcmoiwropmhdgxp,msfpaewjo,f" and press ok - your company is lost
17:41<@Yexo>you can change the password again as long as you don't leave your company
17:41<@Yexo>if you do leave your company I think the server admin can still change your password for you
17:41<Nite>true but what if u do
17:42<Nite>there are no 247 admins on any server
17:42<Zuu>Or you can set the password in your openttd.cfg file and you never need to wory again.
17:42<@Yexo>playing on a server without an active admin is asking for trouble
17:42<Nite>a verify would be a serious option
17:42<@Yexo>if a server has no admin at the time you want to play just join a different server
17:43<Nite>no it is not - there are servers on which ppl behave
17:43<@Yexo>sure, until someone joins the server and doesn't behave
17:43<@Yexo>without an admin you can't do anything about those players
17:44<Nite>so you yexo do not play any server i guess, because there are no servers administrated 247
17:44<Nite>again some servers work without admins
17:45<@planetmaker>Nite: if you mis-typed and you're in the company: just set it again, making sure you don't mis-type
17:45<@Yexo>I didn't say you shouldn't play on a server that isn't administrated 24/7. I just said "do not play at times there is no admin"
17:45<@Yexo>if you don't agree, fine
17:45<@planetmaker>no confirmation or pw is needed as long as you're in the company
17:45<Nite>true - and iam not the one who forgets passwords
17:46<Nite>just wanted to point it out, its the only passwording without verify i know ...
17:47<Zuu>I would rather empahis on not puting too much trust in the security of your password.
17:47<@planetmaker>well, it's not a crucial one... an admin can move anyone anywhere w/o caring about passwords. Yes, I know, I'm not awake 24/7 either.
17:48<Nite>true its not crucial
17:48<Zuu>As a modified server could esily be used to break your password and if you use it for anything else than OpenTTD then sorry for you.
17:48<Nite>off course my ottd password is the same as for my bank account ;P
17:49<Zuu>If there would be a password verification system, that would give the idea of false security in my opinion.
17:50<Nite>iam not talking about security or registred passwords
17:50<Nite>just a verify for yourself so you do not misstype
17:50<Zuu>IIRC the password field is plaintext so you can see what you type.
17:51<Nite>yes it is
17:51<@planetmaker>quite a good point with the false sense of security, Zuu :-)
17:51<@Rubidium>you can see the password, how much more do you need to verify you typed what you thought you typed
17:52<@Rubidium>when the password is hidden it is much more likely to type it twice wrong and not notice it than when you actually get feedback on the keys you pressed
17:52<Zuu>Also as already said, you can put your password in your openttd.cfg and then never more have to set your password.
17:52<Nite>"twice wrong" *lol*
17:53<Nite>you can also simply klick the "default company pw" button
17:54<Zuu>That wolud mean that you would actually have to play OpenTTD :-p hehe
17:56<Nite>actually ottd runs very often here ... lately
17:57<Nite>i assume you ratehr play the config file ;)
17:57<Zuu>Here too aronud christmas / new year.
17:58<Zuu>But often after work its more fun to reply to the forum topics than playing myself.
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18:00<Zuu>Talking of work, I should get to sleep now. :-)
18:01<Zuu>night
18:01<@planetmaker>good night
18:01<@planetmaker>sounds quite good indeed
18:01<@planetmaker>so also good night :-)
18:08<Nite>N8
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18:11<Nite>cya
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23:36<bb10>how does the admin interface work?
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 17 00:00:33 2011