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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-01-20

---Logopened Thu Jan 20 00:00:34 2011
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02:01<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:24<@planetmaker>hm... the symmetric / asymmetric setting for cargos is not too interesting for 'Joe' or 'Fred', I think
03:24<@planetmaker>it should be a cargo property for cargodist.
03:24<@planetmaker>as such newgrf-able
03:38<@Terkhen>it is the best way to support all possible cargos
03:39<@planetmaker>yes. I see no other. Or the code will become a mess.
03:40<@planetmaker>and I fear many ununderstandable new advanced settings
03:41<@planetmaker>at least for 'Joe' or 'Fred' ;-)
03:43<@Terkhen>yes, it should be kept as simple as possible
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03:45<@planetmaker>I'm not sure how crucial the other settings are and whether they need a GUI or should be cfg only like the PF settings
03:47<@Terkhen>I would need to try cargodist to know that for sure, but from the discusions I overheard I know it has a lot of settings
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03:55<@planetmaker>yeah, same here.
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04:24<@Terkhen>good morning Wolf01
04:25<@planetmaker>moin Wolf01
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04:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21865 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp: -Fix (r21862): don't perform savegame conversion when reinitialising some vehicle structures due to NewGRF changes
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07:16<@peter1138>Reallocating X list to 125951168 items (2015218688 bytes) failed
07:16<@peter1138>good reason for failing
07:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21866 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4394]: [NewGRF] Rail type property to influence sorting of rail types in the drop down list
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07:33<IchGuckLive>hi all after now 8Hard Gameyears if got enove money to start a Woodfarm in Desert area! BUT it tels me it only can be placed in Rainforest , where can i see if the trees around are Rainforest ?
07:36<V453000>green land
07:36<IchGuckLive>Subtropical Dessert
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07:38<V453000>yes and in subtropical there are some tiles orange as desert, and some are green as rainforest
07:39<IchGuckLive>oh lumber mill
07:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21867 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp rail_gui.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: move creating the rail type dropdown to a more general location
07:40<IchGuckLive>no picture on tree type 4
07:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21868 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix (r21866 and some more): the changes to the main toolbar rail types dropdown should happen for the autoreplace dropdown as well
07:41<V453000>can you TRY to build it in a green area in tropic?
07:41<V453000>somewhere where it looks like deep in that area
07:41<V453000>one would say it is a rainforest
07:41<IchGuckLive>yes i will but it says it will chop trees type 4
07:42<@SmatZ>I hate registration services, where I have to choose from list of predefined control questions
07:42<@SmatZ>like "born name of mother / born date of family members / favourite actor / ..."
07:43<@SmatZ>if someone wants to steal my account, these things are not hard to find
07:43<V453000>yea, thats pretty stupid
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07:45<@Terkhen>I answer random stuff to those questions
07:45<IchGuckLive>thanks fpr your help someone shoudt consider to expand the wiki in that way hart do get to the infos !
07:45<V453000>I usually answer yes, no or something similarly simple
07:45<V453000>IchGuckLive: nobody needs a wiki for funding lumber mills ...
07:46<IchGuckLive>i do
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07:47<ABCRic>V453000: a wiki is supposed to contain all knowledge :P
07:47<ABCRic>whether it is needed or not
07:47<V453000>it does in this case
07:48<V453000>it says where the lumber mill has to be, that it chops trees, and the other info
07:48<V453000>nobody needs anything more
07:48<V453000>should there be a video tutorial how to click on land to make a lumber mill? I doubt that would help this guy, he seems helpless to me
07:48<V453000>human idiocy is infinite
07:49<ABCRic>videos wouldn't help, they don't show mouse clicks :D :P
07:49<V453000>:D yea
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07:49<@SmatZ>Terkhen: yeah :) but I would bet most people don't
07:49<V453000>Click coming now ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... have you clicked?
07:49<V453000>if yes, continue the video, if not, please go kill yourself
07:50<V453000>but seriously, it is a game and I think it is normal to try the stuff, and if it does not work, THEN I check wiki ... this IchGuckLive just first sees the wiki ... wtf
07:52<ABCRic>V453000: be patient, and you will be rewarded... check your holy book for more detailed information
07:53<V453000>holy book is nice but people stupidity kind of counters it very well
07:54<@Terkhen>I think that both of our current discussion topics might be closely related :)
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07:54<V453000>all topics are related that way then :D
08:00<V453000>hmm terraforming is also limited for SP? :OOO
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08:02<V453000>odd :)
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09:01<dihedral> <- regarding this
09:01<dihedral>have an advanced settings setting, which toggles the view of all available settings
09:02<@peter1138>settings for settings? :S
09:02<dihedral>so then some settings are per default not visible, and by checking a box, they can all be displayed even
09:02<dihedral>yes, consider a router config interface - you have basic and advanced
09:02<dihedral>sadly the word advanced is already taken :-P
09:03<dihedral>so you could do "basic" and "full" view of settings
09:03<dihedral>does that sound like a feasable idea?
09:04<dihedral>[ ] yes i know what i am doing and i want access to all possible settings
09:04<dihedral>are you really sure? [ ] no [x] no
09:05<dihedral>[ ] cancle :-P
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09:06<@planetmaker>dihedral, It does, but I'd not tackle that before not difficulty, options, display and adv. settings are somewhat reviewed as a whole and more unified
09:07<@planetmaker>and possibly moved from the main menu jointly with the ai and newgrf settings to a sub-view of the new game panel
09:08<@planetmaker>also I'm not sure how much merit such setting really would have.
09:08<dihedral>it would make all settings available via the gui, which someone has complained about
09:09<dihedral>hmmm - also, do people have a chance to reset a setting to its default? (other than removing it from the config file)
09:13<@peter1138>how about a settings button to control the settings button to control the settings?
09:14<@peter1138>also: an undo knob
09:16<@Belugas>and a 3d underground view setting as well
09:17<@Belugas>i'm sure it has never been requested
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09:25<@peter1138>oh yes
09:27<dihedral>peter1138, a toggle button for hiding a certain group of settings is not that uncommon ;-)
09:27<@peter1138>dihedral, i'm a gnome user, not a kde user ;p
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09:31<dihedral>same here
09:32<dihedral>for some reason i always thought you were a windows guy - or am i confusing you with glx?
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>i have an idea: make the advanced advanced options a cheat!
09:32<dihedral>or with a command line option
09:33<dihedral>./openttd --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing-and-really-want-to-tamper-with-other-settings-this-time-round
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>cheat: allow changing newgrfs
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09:33<dihedral>and when newgrfs have been changed, a game cannot be saved anymore :-P
09:34<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, Indeed that's something I thought about
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09:35<@planetmaker>it also might have the nice effect that people do not want to cheat ;-)
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>./openttd --yes-i-read-the-readme-about-the-implications-of-this-and-i-have-made-sure-this-setting-is-not-copypastable-becaouse-i-maed-ramdom-typeing-mistakes-in-it
09:35<@planetmaker>and one could call the cheater then
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>all windows-users are screwed because they a) don't know how to give command line options, and b) can't read the error output
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>we should make it a convoluted chain of options the user has to go through
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>./openttd --knock-knock
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>./openttd --white-rabbit
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>./openttd --red-pill
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09:41<@Belugas>one pill makes you smaller
09:41<@Belugas>and one pill makes you tall
09:42<@Belugas>and the one that mother gave don't do anything at all
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09:42<@Belugas>go ask Alice, when she was ten feet tall
09:42<@peter1138>good tune
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11:01<@Belugas>quite a good one indeed;)
11:03<@peter1138>not that long though ;)
11:04<@planetmaker>small is beautiful ;-)
11:05<@peter1138>i was judging by the time for the response ;)
11:05<@planetmaker>quite not that long indeed ;-)
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11:34<@Belugas>hem.. let say... right now, i'm in "isolation" mode, peter1138
11:35<@Belugas>meaning... i'm deep into my code, i don't touch email, i don't touch phone, i'm just coding
11:35<@Belugas>so it's quite laggy
11:35<@Belugas>a feature promised a year ago, but the "managers" never actually gave me the time i required to do it
11:36<@Belugas>and yes, as usual, time ran out. I have two weeks to do what i said would require a month
11:36<@Belugas>so... i said, ok, i'll do it, but cut me from the outside.
11:36<@Belugas>mmh.. compiled. see ya "soon"
11:45<Wolf01>lol __ln__ :D
11:45<Wolf01>hello Belugas
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12:03<Katje>which version of openttd did they bring in the idea of being ble to close an airport so you can replace it ?
12:05<@Terkhen>none, that's a patch
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12:27<@Belugas>hi Wolf01:)
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13:03<dihedral>my boss is offering me a dual quad core system with 32GB RAM :-)
13:08<@planetmaker>sounds 'acceptable'. Just make sure the hdd is larger than 40GB :-P
13:13<@Belugas>who cares :) 40gb is big enough for everyone!
13:20<dihedral>i think 4 SAS hdd's should be alright :-P
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13:21<dihedral>esx :-) yay
13:30<@Belugas>[13:20] <dihedral> i think 4 SAS hdd's should be alright :-P <-- he?? WATZDAT?
13:31<dihedral>Belugas, serial attached SCSI
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13:35<@peter1138>it's like SATA but with "SCSI" in the name, so they can charge more
13:36<@Rubidium>peter1138: what's the difference between SATA and SCSI anyhow? It's all ending up as sdX under Linux ;)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r21869 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovenian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: japanese - 131 changes by kokubunzi
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovenian - 4 changes by ntadej
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14:18<@SmatZ>oh no, the "beer me" guy at #tycoon again
14:18<@SmatZ>causing frequent highlights for me...
14:18<Chris_Booth>SmatZ: are you not the Beer Miester?
14:19<@SmatZ>Chris_Booth: actually, I haven't had a beer for several days :)
14:19<@SmatZ>because there are none in the house
14:19<Chris_Booth>lol, High five for lazyness
14:23<dihedral>i have beer bottles in the house .... empty :-(
14:23<dihedral>had them for a month
14:23<dihedral>(at least)
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14:32<dihedral>anybody here familiar with design patterns?
14:33<__ln__>i've seen one once
14:34<__ln__>a small one
14:35<dihedral>i am looking for information on observer pattern and command pattern ;-)
14:35<dihedral>and their uses
14:36<dihedral>mainly observer
14:39<__ln__>with observer you register your object to a notifier, which then calls some method of yours when something interesting happens.
14:42<dihedral>i am considering using that pattern for the project 'grapes'
14:43<dihedral>would change the way plugins are handled
14:43<dihedral>but at this stage i do not care
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14:53<LordAro>hmmm... my c++ book says that #define's should be avoided at all costs...
14:53<LordAro>so why are there so many in OTTD?
14:54<LordAro>also, hi andythenorth :)
14:55<__ln__>LordAro: because it's not at all a well written piece of C++ code.
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: plus it's actually mostly originating from C
14:55<LordAro>well it should be changed :P
14:56<LordAro>and yes, Eddi, i guessed that too
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: well, go ahead
14:56<LordAro>:) not quite sure how the #define's work yet
14:56<dihedral>does it not also depend on what you define?
14:59<frosch123>LordAro: i would consider that a didactical lie :p
15:00<@Terkhen>me too, defines should be used when they are needed
15:02<dihedral>also, reading advice somewhere and projecting that onto a project which has evolved over many years is silly ;-)
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15:04<dihedral>lol - my boss is interested in OpenTTD :-D
15:05<frosch123>every boss is interested for what you waste your time outside of the company :p
15:08<dihedral>up to the fact that i told him i had to go early to write a patch :-D
15:15*Prof_Frink shall be going to Yate Aerospace tomorrow :D
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15:26<andythenorth>my boss loves OpenTTD
15:26<andythenorth>he's even writing newgrfs :P
15:26<Markk>I wan't a cool boss too.
15:26<Markk>My just walks around and says "How's it goin'?"
15:27<andythenorth>that's bossing
15:27<andythenorth>mine does that a lot too
15:27<Markk>He's a rare pokémon.
15:27<Markk>Just shows up, ignores you for 5 seconds and then dissapears.
15:27<frosch123>[21:26] <andythenorth> he's even writing newgrfs :P <- yeah, but he wastes a lot of time on lego :p
15:28<andythenorth>invests :P
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15:29<@Rubidium>isn't investing like wasting, but the government repays you for whatever is lost on your "investment"?
15:29<@planetmaker>meh... anyone wants a factor 10000? I've a spare one, just don't know where :S
15:30<frosch123>planetmaker: did you confuse km and gigaangstroms ?
15:30<@planetmaker>I wish :-)
15:30<@planetmaker>I hope I didn't confuse mbar and Pa...
15:31<frosch123>that would be 100
15:31<@Rubidium>**2 ;)
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15:37<@Rubidium>dihedral: "do remember though that the clear land will also have an affect on building tracks or road" <- au contraire
15:38<@Rubidium>clearing done by building isn't accounted for, just the stick of dynamite
15:38<dihedral>uhhhh sweet :-)
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15:39<dihedral>updated :-)
15:40<dihedral>i hope the bits of math are enough to give people an idea :-)
15:41<@Rubidium>dihedral: would be sweet if it were a (sub)section in docs/multiplayer.txt
15:42<volta>hi folks. is the following a bug or a feature: if i drag to build multiple signals i get block signals even if the signal i started with is for example a combo signal
15:42<dihedral>perhaps a bit more compact ;-)
15:43<volta>this works fine for the two path signals, but not for entry, exit and combo signals
15:44<@Rubidium>for combo signals the behaviour has been changed recently
15:45<Hirundo>with division, both negative and positive numbers are truncated towards zero, right?
15:45<volta>"recently" means in nightly?
15:45*Rubidium wonders why this behaviour is "okay" for (over) two years and then two people report it within a few days
15:45<@Rubidium>volta: yes, beta3 is too old
15:45<volta>ok fine
15:46<dihedral>probably new people :-)
15:46<frosch123>dihedral: what is the state of joan and grapes? does it make sense to link them from docs/admin_network.txt or similiar?
15:47<Hirundo>I wonder whether the usefulness of not dragging entry/exit signals outweighs the inconsistency / possible bug reports
15:47<volta>i need masses of combo signals for priority lanes :P
15:47<frosch123>Hirundo: yes
15:47<dihedral>frosch123, joan is a workable library and provides an example application 'simple console'
15:47<dihedral>i doubt it's worth linking to grapes currently
15:47*andythenorth should do some tickets :P
15:47<@Rubidium>Hirundo: one person reported the inconsistency in ~5 years
15:48<@Rubidium>and having it behave the way it does for exit/entry signals is actually really useful
15:48<@Rubidium>means you can build "normal" signals away from the junction at the right interval
15:49<@Rubidium>otherwise you would either need to count to get the right interval, or you would drag one interval, change the signal, drag further
15:49<Hirundo>Or alternatively, drag the signals before converting the first one to a presignal
15:50<Hirundo>Does the relevant tooltip say something about this?
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15:50<@Rubidium>Hirundo: unlikely
15:50<volta>to be able to drag "convert signal" would also be nice
15:50<@Rubidium>or is it already two books long?
15:51<frosch123>volta: i would only miss that for electric/semaphore conversion. makes no sense for other types, does it?
15:53<frosch123>but a electric/semaphore conversion while keeping the signal type does not match the behaviour of the convert-signal tool
15:53<volta>you're right, it's a lame idea
15:54<Hirundo>It's already the second longest string in the list, only the 'goto' tooltip is even longer
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16:01<dihedral>Rubidium, i think the minimum value of terraform_frame_burst should be 4 to avoid misconfiguration by people setting it to 1
16:01<dihedral>which would result in no terraforming being able to take place
16:01<dihedral>oh hmmm said nothing
16:02<dihedral>which would also mean that disabeling terraforming would not be possible :-(
16:02<dihedral>forget it :-D
16:02<@Rubidium>burst 1 means you can only terraform one tile height
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16:05<@planetmaker>dihedral, 1 is meaningful.
16:08<dihedral>i thought 1 means you can terraform one tile corner - which in most cases is not possible
16:09<@planetmaker>give it a shot. TF one corner is always possible
16:09<dihedral>no, because in most cases you need to tf 4 corners ;-)
16:09<dihedral>for tile corners
16:10<@planetmaker>it's in corners...
16:10<@planetmaker>one corner borders to 4 tiles. But so what?
16:10<@planetmaker>your presumed scale is off by a factor of 4
16:10<dihedral>a setting of 1 = 4 tile corners?
16:10<@planetmaker>one grid corner
16:11<dihedral>i presume that tf of one spot affects 4 tiles
16:11<@planetmaker>don't presume. Test.
16:11<@Rubidium>but it's not counted in tiles
16:11-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: .]
16:11<@Rubidium>terraforming is counted in tile heights
16:11<@planetmaker>dihedral, I did test it. So you arguing is pointless ;-)
16:11<@Rubidium>a tile height is one height level at one of those white dots when playing with the terraforming tool
16:11<dihedral>it's not because it helps me understand :-D
16:12<@planetmaker>then test it in the border cases. It helps understand VERY quickly. You'd know by now 10 times
16:12<@Rubidium>so presume a flat area, then raising it once you get a cost of 1 "tf" action
16:13<@Rubidium>raising that same point for a second time will cost you 5 "tf" actions; all four neighbouring "dots" need to be raised and the center "dot"
16:14<@Rubidium>next higher is 13 "tf" actions, and after that it's 25 "tf"
16:15<@planetmaker>thus it counts the individual TF actions needed, if done every single step separately
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16:19<fonsinchen>Rubidium: The intention of ext-rating is that the rating calculation yields the same result as before as long as there's no transfer cargo waiting at other stations.
16:19<fonsinchen>Shall I write that in the code or as a separate document somewhere?
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16:23<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: the point was that some constants got changed, e.g. the threshold for removing cargo with low ratings seems to be halved
16:24<fonsinchen>yes, but waiting_avg is waiting / 2 for stations without external cargo
16:24<fonsinchen>so it amounts to the same thing
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16:25<@Rubidium>ah, okay
16:25<@Rubidium>I was thinking num_dests would be 0
16:26<dihedral>specifying a different max value would be interesting for the limits
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16:26<fonsinchen>The map size might be 0 but then there is no cargo
16:26<dihedral>still letting the inital limit inherrit from burst
16:27<fonsinchen>That's a corner case; maybe I should think about it.
16:27<fonsinchen>Then waiting is 0 anyway, though.
16:27<@Rubidium>when there is no cargo then I don't care about spoiling cargo
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16:28<@Rubidium>so I'd add something like /* Only 0 when there is no cargo, otherwise (even without cargo destinations) 1 or more. */ before num_dests
16:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r21870 /trunk/docs/admin_network.txt: -Doc: Mention 'joan' in the admin network documentation.
16:29<fonsinchen>I did
16:29<@Rubidium>and maybe make it explicit that waiting_avg = waiting / 2 when cargo destinations are disabled
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16:33<frosch123>+ As a day consists of 74 frames, a companies limit is increased by 74 <- s/companies/company's/
16:34<@Rubidium>2.3s -> 2.22s ;)
16:34<@Rubidium>lea way -> leeway
16:35<@Rubidium>@calc 127*7*74/65536
16:35<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 1.00381469727
16:36<frosch123>+4.1) Imposing destructive limits <- more indenting, and a *
16:37<@SmatZ>+4.1) Imposing destructive limits
16:38<@SmatZ>there should be only 1 empty line between subchapters
16:39<@Rubidium>leaway -> leeway
16:40<@SmatZ>+ As a day consists of 74 frames, a companies limit is increased by 74
16:40<@SmatZ>+ tile during the course of a single day (~2.3 seconds).
16:40<@SmatZ>that doesn't make much sense to me :x
16:40<@SmatZ>+ To archive a 1 tile per day increase the following calculation is needed:
16:40<@SmatZ>@dict leeway
16:41<fonsinchen>I think naming an inner class of FlowStat FlowStatComparator is a little redundant.
16:41<fonsinchen>I'll call it Comparator
16:42<@SmatZ>Rubidium: thanks, but still it doesn't make much sense to me: "The value 886 still gives enough leaway to scale this behaviour further"
16:42<@SmatZ>(7 days)
16:42-!-Adambean [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
16:42<@SmatZ>missing full stop
16:43<dihedral>SmatZ, the value is big enough to not impose a minimum yet
16:43<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: you might want to take a look at as well (the end); I've got no clue about the exact warnings though
16:44<@SmatZ> The value 886 still gives enough "allowable margin of freedom or variation" to scale this behaviour further
16:44<@SmatZ>makes no sense
16:44<@SmatZ>I would just call it space, freedom...
16:45<fonsinchen>looks obscure
16:45<@SmatZ>if leeway == tolerance, it is weird
16:46<@SmatZ>but ... whatever :)
16:46<@SmatZ>English is not my mother tongue :p
16:47<dihedral>SmatZ, it's not the mother tongue of mose players :-)
16:49<@SmatZ>"destructive limits" sounds funny :)
16:49<@Rubidium>maybe destruction limits is better
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16:53-!-ABCRic_ is now known as ABCRic
16:53<@planetmaker>it's called landscapeing in the language file. What about 'landscaping limits'?
16:55<dihedral>very nice idea planetmaker
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17:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21871 /trunk/docs/multiplayer.txt: -Doc: terraforming/clearing limits (dihedral)
17:06<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>terraforming limits
17:06<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>played a multiplayer 2 days ago
17:06<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>terraforming cost a fortune
17:07<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>it way way enough limit
17:07<dihedral>depends on the server config and newgrf settings
17:07<dihedral>not everybody wants to run a server with bascost newgrf
17:08<@planetmaker>costs are only a limit for new companies
17:09<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21872 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Doc: update some more documentation
17:10<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>terraforming cost more than building on water on other servers
17:11<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>so it was a limit
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>increasing basecosts only slightly shifts the point where you can't spend anymore what you earn by yourself
17:12<ABCRic>z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: let's call it an incentive for not destroying the landscape
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>[that is, as long as you manage to get one profitable line]
17:13<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, well... if you're radical with the base costs you can shift that point a bit more than slightly :-) - but generally true, of course
17:13<dihedral>though it still is the 20th here :-P
17:13<@planetmaker>it proved quite interesting to rise them to like 100k per TF action...
17:14<@planetmaker>also interesting is to see new people terraform a bit and then drop :-P
17:14<@Rubidium>but that only prevents beginners from terraforming
17:14<@planetmaker>of course :-)
17:15<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>i have tried 72k/tf
17:15<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>tried to build as usual
17:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21873 /tags/1.1.0-beta4/: -Release: 1.1.0-beta4
17:15<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>and spent 1M euros on a short track
17:15<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>didnt even complete
17:16<ABCRic>ooooh, a new beta :D when is 1.1 going to branch?
17:16<@SmatZ>never :(
17:16<@Rubidium>when love is in the air ;)
17:16<@SmatZ>that said, never...
17:16<dihedral>2000-never :-P
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17:17<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>make version number exponential
17:18<ABCRic>well, I guess that means that new features will always be made available in the next release :)
17:18<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>so never reaches 1.0
17:18<@planetmaker>ehm... you're aware that many exponential functions.... ;-)
17:19<@SmatZ>it has actually already happened
17:20<dihedral>which means we will never (again) reach 1.0
17:21<@planetmaker>yeah... version numbers better are some kind of injective function...
17:22<dihedral>flightgear has a discussion on their mailing list before each release, discussing which version number they should use for the release
17:23-!-thomas [] has joined #openttd
17:23<@Rubidium>pff... just bump the minor every year and the major every decade ;)
17:23<dihedral>they only have a release once a year :-P
17:23<dihedral>so that could work :-D
17:24<@Terkhen>good night
17:24<dihedral>good night Terkhen
17:25<@Rubidium>night Terkhen
17:26<dihedral>i will say the same - have an appointment at a client tomorrow
17:26<@planetmaker>g'night dihedral
17:26<dihedral>night :-)
17:26<@SmatZ>good night dihedral
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17:29<ABCRic>I'm off as well, good night all
17:29<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:29<@planetmaker>oh, good night and hello then in this order :-)
17:29-!-ABCRic [] has quit [Quit: The bad thing about quit messages is that you never know how people react to them.]
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17:31-!-Ammler is now known as marcel
17:31<@SmatZ>good night planetmaker
17:32-!-marcel is now known as Ammler
17:32<Nite_Owl>Later planetmaker
17:32<@planetmaker>uhm... :-) I said 'good night' to ABCRic ;-) - but thank you
17:32<@planetmaker>I think it's about time indeed :-)
17:33<@planetmaker>so, yes, have a good night all of you friendly folks :-)
17:33<Nite_Owl>Advanced Settings -> Stations -> Cargo Handling -> Deliver cargo to a station only when there is a demand - Do NOT change this setting during a running game ?? I did and my trains were suddenly loading to 125% or more...
17:33<@SmatZ>oh :)
17:34<@planetmaker>you're not using a buggy nightly?
17:34<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>there was a server
17:34<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>simulation america
17:34<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: upgrade your openttd
17:34<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>with terraforming locked
17:34<Nite_Owl>Which one was buggy - I have today's nightly
17:34<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: yesterday's one
17:35<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>creating tunnels made a bit terraforming but it was forbidden
17:35<Nite_Owl>Even with today's nightly I got the same behavior
17:35<@SmatZ>z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: really? baaad
17:35-!-perk11 [~perk11@] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
17:35<Nite_Owl>Could be that the save was off of yesterday's nightly ??
17:36<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: if r21869 is broken for you...
17:36<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: it's possible, yes
17:36<@Rubidium>the savegame's just broken
17:36<@SmatZ>that if it had loaded >100%, it won't stop loading
17:37<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>savegame size increased while loading?
17:38<Nite_Owl>I did go back to an earlier auto save and all seemed well again. So it has nothing to do with the Advanced Setting but with the buggy nightly and any game saved under that nightly.
17:38<@SmatZ>it's about vehicles loading over 100%
17:38-!-goblin [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:38<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: it's always possible there is another bug :)
17:38<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>its not a big problem
17:38<@SmatZ>yes, it is
17:38<@SmatZ>vehicles won't leave the station
17:38<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>more peope on the train
17:39<@SmatZ>possibly creating a black hole
17:39<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>like +10% standing
17:39<Nite_Owl>Also more cargo on freight which slows trains down to a crawl\
17:39<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>oc you can use a saw and bags to take more passengers too
17:40<@SmatZ>or burn them
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17:40<Nite_Owl>So I can change the Advanced Setting as long as I use a save from before the buggy nightly ??
17:41<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>sure, take money before trip, and doesnt even have to transport
17:41<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>but city population will suffer ;>>
17:42<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: you should be able to
17:42<@SmatZ>but if it says "do NOT change in-game", it has some reason
17:42<@SmatZ>like, it won't work at all
17:42<Nite_Owl>There is no warning on the Advanced Setting
17:43<@SmatZ>still, I am not sure if that will work
17:43<Nite_Owl>So r21861 was the buggy release ??
17:44<@SmatZ>it was a nightly build
17:44<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>if terraforming locking a game, wouldnt it be easy to disable the terraforming palette?
17:44<@SmatZ>they are supposed to be unstable
17:44<@SmatZ>z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: terraforming palette?
17:44<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>in the upper menu
17:44<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>the tools
17:44<Nite_Owl>r21861 was yesterday if my folder is correct
17:44<@SmatZ>I think it would be confusing
17:45<@SmatZ>r21861 has broken vehicle loading
17:45<@SmatZ>r21869 should be fine wrt. that
17:45<@SmatZ>unless you load a broken savegame
17:45<Nite_Owl>Very good - Thank You
17:45<@SmatZ>you are welcome
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17:47-!-thomas is now known as DJNekkid
17:49<Nite_Owl>Is there a way to check which version a save game was created with ?? Console debug or some such thing - my memory fails me.
17:49<@SmatZ>Nite_Owl: open console, type "gamelog"
17:49<Nite_Owl>Thanks once again
17:52<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>openttd does not put version number in savegame?
17:53<@SmatZ>it does
17:53<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>hm so its not plaintext
17:53<@SmatZ>savegames are compressed
17:54<@SmatZ>else they would be huge
17:54<@SmatZ>like, even over 100MB
17:54<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>i see
17:54<@SmatZ>good night Wolf01
17:54-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:54<Nite_Owl>later Wolf01
17:54<Nite_Owl>too late
17:54<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>never too late :)
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18:17<Nite_Owl>All sorted. Lost a bit of stuff I built last night but nothing that cannot be rebuilt. Such is the price for playing on the cutting edge.
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18:19<Nite_Owl>The rebuilding should be easy if I can remember what it looked like. I know what I want it to do but how I went about doing it is another story.
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18:22<fonsinchen>Enough coding style for today.
18:22<Nite_Owl>At least it was not my fiddling about with that Advanced Setting. After a bit of research I am going to need that Advance Setting to make things a bit easier for what I am trying to do.
18:22<fonsinchen>Good night
18:22<@SmatZ>night fonsinchen
18:22<Nite_Owl>later fonsinchen
18:23-!-fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:24<Nite_Owl>I need to feed - later all
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19:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r21874 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: when a single-vehicle train was reversed while on a slope, its GOINGUP/DOWN weren't swapped
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19:26<Eddi|zuHause>i have problems calling single vehicles "train"
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>in german terminology, a "zug" must consist of at least two vehicles
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>(strangely, though, it's also called "zug" when it's actually pushed)
19:35<@SmatZ>"zug" means "pull"?
19:35<@SmatZ>or "zu zuggen" or whatever it could be :)
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes, amongst other things ;)
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>comes from "ziehen" ;)
19:36-!-Devroush [] has quit []
19:36<@SmatZ>oh right :)
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>Zehn zahme Ziegen zogen zehn Zentner Zucker zum zeitzer Zug
19:37<@SmatZ>all those words are derived from ziehen?
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>no ;=
19:37<@SmatZ>"Zucker" like "exctracted from som...
19:37<@SmatZ>ok :)
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's a tongue twister ;)
19:38<@SmatZ>I understand only a few words from that :(
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's not that uncommon words... "Zentner" is a unit of weight (100 pounds, i.e. 50 kilo)
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>(derived from "Cent" meaning 100 in many languages)
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>and Zeitz is a city, known for its sugar
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>"Ziege" is a goat, and "Zucker" of course is sugar
19:44<@SmatZ>ok... "ten taimed goats pull 1 tonne of sugar to Zeitz's train"
19:44<@SmatZ>first problem - translating from german to czech ; second problem - translating from czech to english :)
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>something like that
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>only it's half a tonne, in my calculation ;)
19:45<@SmatZ>right, I overlooked that "pounds, i.e. 50 " part :)
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>one "zentner" is the typical unit of weight that a grown man can carry with this hands
19:45<@SmatZ>I am not sure I could carry that
19:45<@SmatZ>even if I could... I wouldn't want to
19:46<@SmatZ>maybe on my back
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, this kind of weight you typically lift on your back
19:47<__ln__>even relatively short females weigh 50 kg
19:49*SmatZ prefers grown women
19:49<DJNekkid>bbw or tall ones? :P
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen you, you aren't THAT tall either...
19:50<@SmatZ>depends how you define bbw, but I would have problems with woman taller than me :)
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>no, SmatZ.
19:50<@SmatZ>I got 176cm
19:51<DJNekkid>thats ... 6'1 i think
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>i have around 193cm
19:51<DJNekkid>if there are any of thoose wierd imperial guys around :P
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>those are clearly a minority :p
19:52<DJNekkid>dont you just hate it btw, that you are REALLY REALLY tierd at 7 or 8, and when you go to bed at midnight no way you can get to sleep
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i have stopped going to bed at midnight.
19:53<@SmatZ>I know that feeling, but I am home nowadays, so I wake up at like 11
19:55<DJNekkid>im on sickleave as well...
19:55<DJNekkid>but i would like to get something close to a normal day rythm back
19:56-!-Chruker [] has quit []
20:02<__ln__>a day should be standardized to be 25 hours. i'd be happy about that.
20:03<DJNekkid>nah ... 40, with 10 days per week :)
20:03<DJNekkid>with the normal 8hour/5 day work per week :P
20:04<@SmatZ>in last two years, it wasn't unusual people worked only 4 days a week (because of the "crisis")
20:04<@SmatZ>but also for only 4/5 of normal wage
20:04<__ln__>18 hours of wake time and 12 hours of sleep is only 30 hours... what would you do with the remaining 10?
20:05<DJNekkid>what i usually do .. zombie in front of the computer and/or TV :P
20:05<@SmatZ>have "sex" with girls on my computer screen
20:05-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4]
20:06<DJNekkid>i have my wife for that...
20:06<__ln__>if a day was 25 hours, 4 days would comfortably be a centi-hour
20:07<@SmatZ>reminds me of :)
20:07<@SmatZ>yeah, I also wanted to change the world, so it has 10 days a week, 3 of which would be weekend
20:07<@SmatZ>@calc 3/10
20:07<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 0.3
20:07<@SmatZ>@calc 5/7
20:07<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 0.714285714286
20:08<__ln__>@calc 2/7
20:08<@DorpsGek>__ln__: 0.285714285714
20:08<@SmatZ>0,70 and 0,71, the ratio of work days and weekend would not change much
20:08<@SmatZ>also, 10 months a year
20:09<@SmatZ>each with 36 or 37 days
20:09<@SmatZ>without that silly February with 28 days...
20:09<FauxFaux>I think you should concentrate on ridding us of DST first.
20:09<@SmatZ>each ~four years, there would be one "special" day for 29th February
20:09<__ln__>that's right, DST is the stupidest invention ever
20:09<@SmatZ>I think I even had names for those 10 days and 10 months...
20:10<FauxFaux>SmatZ: Or just let it shift, then drop 50 days at a time and watch the public cry as you're making them older.
20:10<FauxFaux>(Like they did last time.)
20:10<@SmatZ>at least in the past, DST saved power
20:10<FauxFaux>That's disputed iirc.
20:12<@SmatZ>[02:10:50] <FauxFaux> (Like they did last time.) <== you mean that julian/gregorian calendar switch?
20:12<DJNekkid>what is DST?
20:13<@SmatZ>daylight-saving time
20:13<DJNekkid>thats what i thought
20:13<@SmatZ>that one-hour change in September and March (?)
20:13<__ln__>when you least expect it
20:13<@SmatZ>actually, it seems to be the "summer time"
20:13<DJNekkid>first saturday after the ... whats it called....
20:14<DJNekkid>when the day is equally long
20:14<DJNekkid>solstice is in the winter and summer i believe?
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>solstice is the shortest/longest day
20:14<FauxFaux>I can't read "equinox" as not the Eclipse (Java IDE) platform thing.
20:14<@SmatZ>interesting, in CZ, the end of DST changed in 1996 from "last week in September" to "last week in October"
20:16<DJNekkid>i think we have last week in october here as well
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>probably to match the german one
20:17<@SmatZ>probably has something to do with EU-unification
20:19<__ln__>iirc, Estonia made the smart move and got rid of DST within the last 15 years, but then they joined EU and are again obeying DST.
20:20<@SmatZ> (funny advantage of DST - translated from Slovak)
20:22<DJNekkid>not sure how much sense that made
20:22<DJNekkid>it exploded in a bus instead of in the bank?
20:22<@SmatZ>[02:07:01] <DJNekkid> i have my wife for that... <== interesting, for some reason I thought you are quite young
20:23<@SmatZ>DJNekkid: it killed the terrorists instead of killing people in a bus
20:23<DJNekkid>aha :D
20:23<DJNekkid>well, im turning 30 in april, so i guess it can be discussed if im young or not :)
20:24<@SmatZ>google translate isn't perfect :)
20:24<@SmatZ>DJNekkid: older than me :)
20:24<@SmatZ>maybe I have mistaken you with someone else...
20:24<@SmatZ>(actually, it's quite possible)
20:25<@SmatZ>though... not as serious problem as Vinnie at the public server, who has the very same nick as "vinnie" who was banned
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>how feasible would it be to have action14 reference a realsprite as "preview" image?
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>might be problematic to have realsprites before action 8
20:34<@SmatZ>I would love to answer that, but I have no clue
20:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r21875 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: indentation of some comments was wrong
20:41*SmatZ wonders how that dioxin scandal could happen in Germany
20:43<@SmatZ>(I would wonder if it happened in any country, but in Germany, it surprises me twice as much)
20:44<@SmatZ>on the other hand, maybe in other countries, nobody would notice that :p
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21:11<@SmatZ>silly bank transfers with currency conversion...
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21:12<@SmatZ>it costs me ~10E to send money to a non-CZK account..
21:12*SmatZ needs a cheaper way to send money
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>handle your accounts in euro? ;)
21:13<@SmatZ>hehe :)
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21:13<@SmatZ>I use my account only to pay/take money in CZK...
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21:15<@SmatZ>hello Eddi|zuHause, where have you been?
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>somewhere in connection-nirvana
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really understand it, though
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 21 00:00:35 2011