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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-01-23

---Logopened Sun Jan 23 00:00:38 2011
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03:33<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:40<andythenorth>morning Terkhen
03:41<z-MaTRiX_nonidentified>how does massive terraform limit perform?
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04:18<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: are you done going through my diffdiff? Last night I looked at some diff and still saw some coding style issues that I thought I already marked in the diffdiff
04:18<fonsinchen>Not really
04:18<fonsinchen>I'm reworking the smallmap-stats patch
04:18<@Rubidium>also how often are the links in the smallmap supposed to update?
04:19<fonsinchen>On every OnPaint()
04:19<fonsinchen>There is no cache so far.
04:19<fonsinchen>But I'm implementing a general link graph overlay which can also be used for viewports
04:19<fonsinchen>I can include a cache in there.
04:20<@Rubidium>as some links seem to be somewhat flickering by changing their colour quite often
04:21<fonsinchen>That may be due to moving average decrementing the value just below the threshold of some color and at the same time a lot of traffic which always increments it.
04:21<fonsinchen>A cache might solve that.
04:21<@Rubidium>like links getting yellow and then dark green every second or so
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04:22<fonsinchen>I can imagine that.
04:22*Rubidium was thinking it could be something like DivideApprox being used
04:23<fonsinchen>DivideApprox is deterministic. It always gives the same value for two given numbers
04:23<@Rubidium>in any case, for most colours isn't not really noticable except for the yellow to dark green
04:24<fonsinchen>I'll just implement a cache which is updated maybe every 10 seconds. That will help with performance a lot, too.
04:27<@Rubidium>there's a 100 tick "callback" for windows
04:27<fonsinchen>Is there anything specific you'd like to have done first? I don't have too much time and if you'd like to merge anything I'll do that first.
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04:29<@Rubidium>I'm not seeing much things that should be merged this close to the branch of 1.1
04:29<@Rubidium>oh, maybe the smallmap refactor
04:30<@Rubidium>I doubt FORCEINLINE will do much for methods implemented in the .cpp but mentioned in the header
04:30<andythenorth>Terkhen: do you have a particular plan for approaching rv-wagons?
04:30<andythenorth>looks like a lot of code we need is currently in train_cmd.cpp
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04:30*Rubidium ponders some brunch
04:31<@Rubidium>yeah, that's definitely a good idea ;)
04:31<andythenorth>it's only breakfast time :P
04:32<@Terkhen>andythenorth: for now I'm unifying the articulated vehicle iterators, which is the last thing I have in my unification list
04:33<andythenorth>I might start fooling with depot code
04:33<@Terkhen>once that is done I'll look for further consist related code to unify
04:33<andythenorth>I've never explored depot code, it will help me understand a bit more
04:33<fonsinchen>If FORCEINLINE is resolved to "inline" it will work fine, even if in the .cpp.
04:33<@Terkhen>the depot code will probably need some unification and clean up
04:34<andythenorth>I'll go exploring
04:34<@Terkhen>I have only checked the depot GUI code a bit while doing the partial refit patch
04:34<andythenorth>I want to see initially if RV depots can be made to use multi-lines like train depots
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04:36<@Terkhen>IIRC the same "is train" condition is used both for displaying vehicles in lines and for activating all of the wagon related features, if you split that it shouldn't be very complicated to do
04:37<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
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04:56<andythenorth>Terkhen: he
04:56<andythenorth>I get an rv depot window that looks like a train depot window
04:56<andythenorth>and a nice assert :P
04:56<@Terkhen>what does the assert says?
04:57<andythenorth>Assertion failed at line 780 of /Users/andy/Documents/workspace/rv-wagons/src/vehicle_base.h: v->type == Type
04:58<andythenorth>line 780 has a preceeding comment: * Converts a const Vehicle to const SpecializedVehicle with type checking.
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04:59<@Terkhen>then you are trying to convert a Vehicle which is really a RoadVehicle into a Train somewhere
04:59<andythenorth>I didn't expect this to work
04:59<@Terkhen>look for a Train::From that is being executed for the multiline view :)
05:00<andythenorth>I just replaced most references to VEH_TRAIN with VEH_ROAD in depot_gui.cpp
05:00<andythenorth>I expected breakage
05:00<@Terkhen>oh :D
05:00<@Terkhen>yes, breakage is to be expected then
05:00<andythenorth>I'm not sure what the correct strategy is
05:00<andythenorth>but there is *a lot* of code specific to type VEH_TRAIN
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05:02<@Terkhen>check Vehicle::IsGroundVehicle
05:02<@Terkhen>IIRC in vehicle_base.h
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05:06<@Terkhen>oooh... snow :)
05:06<andythenorth>in spain?
05:07<@Terkhen>outside my house, for the first time this winter
05:07<@Terkhen>it probably won't last long
05:08<andythenorth>Terkhen: so instances of this->type == VEH_TRAIN should change to check Vehicle::IsGroundVehicle
05:09<@Terkhen>and all code that is currently guarded by VEH_TRAIN is probably working with something like Train *t = Train::From(v)
05:09<@Terkhen>which is invalid for RoadVehicle
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05:16<andythenorth>Train::From(v) is getting the consist that a vehicle is in?
05:20<@Alberth>Converts a Vehicle to SpecializedVehicle with type checking. <-- says the doc
05:20<@Alberth>I'd expect v->First() as the first vehicle is the closest concept we have to indicate consists currently
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05:22<andythenorth>is there work to do with allowing RVs to have consists (not just articulated vehicles)?
05:23<@Alberth>obviously there is, otherwise we would have rv consists. But maybe you wanted to ask something else?
05:25<andythenorth>there seems to be a lot of train specific code (e.g. in vehicle_cmd.cpp and other places)
05:26<andythenorth>looks like it would need at least refactoring to be more generic
05:26<andythenorth>at minimum
05:26*Alberth agrees
05:28<andythenorth>my short adventure in depot GUI code indicates that this refactoring needs to happen sooner not later
05:28<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: my point was that it's not that likely to get inlined
05:29<fonsinchen>Why not?
05:30<@Alberth>andythenorth: I completely agree, and imo that is the big amount of work
05:30<fonsinchen>It depends on how intelligent the compiler is.
05:30<fonsinchen>If it can do link time optimizations it might inline it.
05:30<andythenorth>Alberth: it looks a bit scary to me :o
05:30<andythenorth>it tends to look less scary after I've hacked and broken a few things :P
05:30<@Alberth>andythenorth: welcome to the club :p
05:30<andythenorth>it's only code, doesn't bite
05:31<@Alberth>it only crashes :)
05:31<andythenorth>the worst that can happen is boredom
05:32<@Alberth>I don't agree, the worst that can happen is that you find a major problem that breaks your entire approach several months into the adventure
05:33<@Terkhen>andythenorth: this is why I'm trying to unify first
05:33<@Terkhen>as long as it don't affects performance, unification is nice to have
05:33<@Terkhen>and it should pave the road for anything that comes after it
05:34<@Alberth>whatever 'anything' is :)
05:34<andythenorth>Terkhen: maybe I wait until you've unified a bit then
05:35<andythenorth>I can't learn much about needed changes to depot - all I get is an assert :)
05:35<@Terkhen>for already unified GUI code you can check the refit GUI
05:36<@Terkhen>although that's not as complex
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05:49<@Terkhen>hmm... I need a savegame with lots of articulated trains
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05:59<@planetmaker>there's a public server game with that
05:59<@planetmaker>also good day :-)
05:59<@Terkhen>hi planetmaker
05:59<@Terkhen>which one? :)
05:59<@planetmaker>if I knew :-)
05:59<@planetmaker>I think SmatZ looked it up yesterday(?)
06:00<@Terkhen>IIRC it was one with lot of road vehicles
06:00<@planetmaker>not what you look for?
06:00<@planetmaker>oh... trains... tralalala
06:01<@planetmaker>uhm... which train types are articulated? ICE, right?
06:01<@planetmaker>from dbset?
06:01<@planetmaker>or is it 'just' MU?
06:01<@Terkhen>that's part of the problem, I don't know which sets use them :)
06:02<@planetmaker>Dutchset does
06:02<@planetmaker>and dbset has some, too
06:04<@Terkhen>ok, let's see
06:04<andythenorth>isn't any steam loco with a tender articulated?
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06:04<andythenorth>the mallet in NARS 2 is articulated
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06:06<@Terkhen>the chimaera in 2cc must be articulated too, right?
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06:06<@planetmaker>Terkhen: PSG #101 has lots
06:07<@planetmaker> <-- I think
06:08<@Terkhen>thanks :)
06:08<@planetmaker>I still have difficulty to understand the difference between MU and articulated - or whether there is one.
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06:08<@Terkhen>hmm... I'm missing some GRFs for that save
06:08<@planetmaker>openttdcoop grfpack?
06:09<@Terkhen>I have two folders from it; ottdc_grfpack_8.0 and ottdc_grfpack_8.0_legacy7.3
06:09<@Terkhen>the archive lists pack 7.0, though
06:09<andythenorth>is MU a thing?
06:09<andythenorth>I thought MU implementations were normally using a livery over-ride on the rear coach
06:09<andythenorth>I haven't checked though :P
06:12<@Terkhen> <--- those are the missing NewGRFs
06:14<@planetmaker>hm, compatible ones are not part of the 8.0 grfpack? :S
06:15<@planetmaker>let me gather those for you...
06:15<@Terkhen>thank you :)
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06:15<@Terkhen>I'm redownloading the pack just in case, but I don't remember changing anything from it
06:21<@Terkhen>the link to the 7z legacy from 8.0 seems to be down
06:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21898 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#4438]: using a pointer-iterator and adding things (thus reallocating) to the iterated array caused OpenTTD to crash on invalid pointers
06:21<@planetmaker>Terkhen: aren't the OpenGFX grfs in the z_obsolete folder of the ottd_grfpack?
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06:22<@planetmaker>yes, the legacy one is down, but should not be needed. the 8.0 should be fine to load every game...
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06:24<@Terkhen>hmm... they are there, or at least ones with similar names
06:24<@Terkhen>I wonder why they are not being loaded
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06:29<@Terkhen>my jpset_treew has different MD5sum than the one requested by the savegame
06:29<@planetmaker>different md5 shouldn't matter
06:30<@planetmaker>the grfpack doesn't always supply the exact one, but is content to supply compatible ones
06:31<@Terkhen>only jpset_trew.GRF is missing, for the other ones it has a compatible grf
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07:40<andythenorth>interesting FIRS problem
07:41<andythenorth>farms show NARS 2 trains as delivering ~2250t FMSP for each 450t delivered
07:41<andythenorth>but deliveries by eGRVTS are reported correctly :o
07:41<andythenorth>I don't know if it's a size overflow on a persistent storage register, or a cargo-unit-multiplier issue
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07:47<@planetmaker>andythenorth: a difference between units and weight?
07:47<andythenorth>could be
07:47<andythenorth>got to go out
07:47<andythenorth>will try and figure this out later
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08:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r21899 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: Do not show a vehicle selection in the RefitWindow for refit orders. You cannot select anything anyway.
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08:33<Lo>hi, could I please ask you for help?
08:34<fonsinchen>There is now a version of link graph view in smallmap without zoom-in:
08:34<ABCRic>Lo: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
08:34<Lo>I would like to group trains with the same timetable, like here: ... but I can not add any second train with that "add shared vehicle" button
08:34<fonsinchen>It requires a rather big refactoring of smallmap_gui, though:
08:34<Lo>thanks ;)
08:35<ABCRic>Lo: "add shared vehicle" only works if the vehicles are sharing orders
08:35<ABCRic>you can check if a vehicle is sharing orders by looking at the bottom of the orders list
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08:36<ABCRic>it will say "End of shared orders" if orders are being shared, otherwise it will say "End of orders"
08:36<Lo>okay, it says end of orders... how can I make it shared?
08:36<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r21900 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_order.cpp ai_order.hpp): -Fix: [NoAI] hide automatic orders from AIs as they have no way of dealing with them
08:37<ABCRic>push the goto button, then ctrl-click another train
08:37<ABCRic>it will share orders with that train
08:37<Wolf01>use the CONTROL Luke, use the CONTROL :D
08:38<Ammler>toyland savegame for 1.1 \o/
08:38<Lo>okay, ABCRic, but it did not get any new orders by that click... :(
08:39<Zuu>Ammler: For the title game?
08:39<Lo>ahh wait I clicked it in the map, and now it worked!
08:39<Ammler>Zuu: your just posted one is quite nice too :-)
08:39<Wolf01>about this, I think my sugestion to share orders with the vehicle groups will reduce the difficulty for newbies, you just assign orders to one vehicle, put it in a group and then drag&drop all the other vehicles in the group
08:40<Lo>only one question remaining: what is that add shared vehicle button for, then?
08:40<Zuu>Ammler: It has the feature of being almost too silent :-)
08:40<@Yexo>it adds all vehicles that share orders with one already inthe group to that group
08:40<ABCRic>that ^
08:41<Lo>ahhh :)
08:41<Lo>very nice, thank you all very much :)
08:41<Ammler>also is there a reason, intro games are loaded from top left and not like usualy from last save point?
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean "top left"?
08:43<@Rubidium>Ammler: IIRC it's just behaving the way it behaves for normal savegames as well
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: you just don't notice this for your own savegames, since you usually don't switch resolutions
08:43<Zuu>or don't pay muchc attention at all to the loading location.
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>but the reference point has always been the top left screen corner on saving/loading
08:44<Ammler>hmm, I am quite sure, a save game loads where I saved it last time
08:44<Zuu>where "where" referes to the top left location
08:44<Ammler>maybe, but that is variable
08:45<Ammler>oh, I see
08:47<Ammler>so "the issue" is if someone saves a game with resolution 2k which then will be loaded with res 500, he get the (empty) edge
08:48<Zuu>yes, unless there is activity all over.
08:48<Zuu>or at least at the top left corner.
08:49<Ammler>so you just need to resize the windows to the smallest supported openttd screen and save that optimally
08:49<ccfreak2k>What about on screens that are smaller than are typical for PCs?
08:50<@Yexo>they won't see much of the introgame anyway because the main menu covers it
08:50<Ammler>I would not package the intro game there to save space and memory ;-)
08:51<Zuu>Ammler: The hard part about designing intro games is that it should provide interesting features for both small and large screens.
08:52<Ammler>would be easier, if the start point is related to the center
08:53<Ammler>we have that issue also for MP joining screen, where we set some signs with rules etc.
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i don't think so. as "intro game designer" it might be a good feature to have two definite corners, where you can hide stuff
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: just make sure you put the signs towards the top left corner, then everybody will see them
08:54<@Yexo>Ammler: the problem with having the center as starting point is that you have to move the screen content when the window is resized
08:54<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: indeed, good point
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: it's like hidden stations in a model railway
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09:09*andythenorth puzzled
09:09<andythenorth>a dword ain't going to overflow with 450d
09:09<andythenorth>so it's not a problem with my registers
09:10<andythenorth>and the text stack looks ok
09:10*andythenorth ponders cargo weight multiplier nonsense
09:16*andythenorth wonders if the production cb fails to eat cargo sometimes
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09:26*andythenorth has some kind of thinking failure
09:29<andythenorth>I've forgotten how to unpack cb bit masks in my head
09:29<andythenorth>debug menu to the rescue!
09:39<andythenorth>frosch123: I have a FIRS / production cb issue and I can't see how to fix it
09:39<andythenorth>I'll paste..
09:41<andythenorth>for large values of delivered cargo, the value in LOCAL_CARGO_1_DELIVERED_STORE is wrong
09:41<andythenorth>it comes out 4 or 5 times greater than it should
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09:42<andythenorth>which looks like it's being added to many times
09:42<andythenorth>which could be because the production cb isn't clearing off cargo
09:42<andythenorth>but it far more likely to be a logic error in my code
09:42<andythenorth>it / is /s
09:43<andythenorth>in this case, large values = 450t delivered
09:45<andythenorth>I think it might be a problem with which callbacks are enabled - forest industry doesn't exhibit this problem
09:46<andythenorth>newgrf debug doesn't report whether / which production cb is enabled
09:46<andythenorth>maybe that could be extended?
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09:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: not related to your problem, why do you use #ifdef/#endif/#ifndef/#endif instead of #ifdef/#else/#endif?
09:47<andythenorth>I don't know
09:47<andythenorth>I didn't write that :)
09:47<andythenorth>it was kindly written for me
09:47<frosch123>andythenorth: at line 11, shouldn't there be LOCAL_CARGO_1_DELIVERED_STORE instead of 00 ?
09:48*andythenorth checks
09:49<frosch123>ah, i see your problem
09:49<frosch123>your 'add' is executed for every unknown callback which has no mask bit
09:50<andythenorth>I don't think I would have spotted that :P
09:50<andythenorth>but fixing bad values in prop 21 / 22 might resolve this?
09:50<andythenorth>I think there are some cbs enabled but not handled - cruft from previous ideas
09:50<frosch123>not every callback has a mask bit
09:51<andythenorth>I wonder why it works for the forest
09:52<andythenorth>the only significant difference between forest and dairy farm appears to be value of prop 22 in this case
09:53<frosch123>andythenorth: i guess you have to check var 0c to be 0
09:54<andythenorth>I'll look at that
09:54<andythenorth>changing the value of prop 22 to match the forest *does* resolve the issue for dairy farm
09:54<frosch123>yeah, but only by luck :)
09:54<frosch123>if we add some new callback without a mask, it breaks
09:54<andythenorth>so I should explicitly handle production cb, not by luck
09:55<frosch123>yeah, i guess that is the only solution
09:55<andythenorth>what would the default value be for my varaction 2 handling cbs?
09:55<andythenorth>I need it to fail?, but I can't end it on a graphics branch
09:56<frosch123>also the production callback, as it also means "failed callback"
09:56<frosch123>but you should skip the addition in that case
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09:57<maddy_>hi folks
09:57<Zuu>hi maddy_
09:58<andythenorth>frosch123: handling production cb explicitly appears to resolve that issue
09:58<andythenorth>I probably also have some cbs enabled that shouldn't be :P
09:58<andythenorth>but that's a side issue
09:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r21902 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix: Do not count articulated parts when passing the number of vehicles to refit to the command. That may exceed 8 bits.
10:09<andythenorth>frosch123: would it be safe to handle the production cb directly from an action 3?
10:09<andythenorth>I am updating ttdp wiki with a warning
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10:10<frosch123>directly from action 3? what does that mean?
10:10<andythenorth>i.e. action 3 provides the ID of the varaction 2 containing the production cb
10:11<andythenorth>no checking of 0C
10:11<andythenorth>I am trying to write an accurate wiki note...
10:11<andythenorth>I'm not sure I can word it correctly
10:11<frosch123>i would just write a note on the production callback site
10:12<frosch123>no idea, how action3 gets involved there :)
10:12<andythenorth>The production callback is handled in an action 2 chain. If other callbacks are handed in this chain (by checking var 0C), the production cb should be handled explicitly.
10:12<andythenorth>is not correct :P
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10:15<andythenorth>silly old wiki
10:16<andythenorth>done done, onto the next one
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10:17<frosch123>"Makes sense?" :p
10:18<andythenorth>I'm not sure it does tbh
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11:00<Eddi|zuHause>great. people send me program source code in .doc files. ;)
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11:00<@Terkhen>people that don't have a clue about coding, I hope
11:00<Chris_Booth>hi all
11:01<@Terkhen>hi Chris_Booth
11:01<Chris_Booth>hi Terkhen
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: something like parents whose first-semester-studying child fails at an elementary programming assignment
11:03<__ln__>hmm, i suppose even visual studio can't handle source files in doc format.
11:03<@Terkhen>is his failure related to trying to compile a doc file?
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>email text reads like "my daughter is trying to use eclipse and it complains about unitialised variables"
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't seem to have the java compiler installed...
11:06<@Terkhen>eclipse... I guess it can't be worse than learning with visual basic
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11:09<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder if i should start with a general lecture about code-style...
11:12<devilsadvocate>Eddi|zuHause: while i try not to be gender biased, its a girl trying to use eclipse - it could be worse.
11:12<frosch123>what confused me about "parents" and "first-semester-studying child" in one sentence? :s
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11:23*andythenorth wonders how to add to newgrf debug window: CBM_IND_PRODUCTION_256_TICKS and CBM_IND_PRODUCTION_CARGO_ARRIVAL
11:23<andythenorth>they have no CBID
11:24<ABCRic>give them a CBID :P
11:32<maddy_>seems I got the programmable signals working somewhat well, should I post a .patch file at the openttd forums?
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11:39<Eddi|zuHause>maddy_: feel free to do so.
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11:43<maddy_>still have to fix some stuff :(
11:44<fonsinchen>I think I'll use the extra viewport to provide a link graph overlay with closer zoom.
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12:00<maddy_>how do I show the standard red error message?
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12:02<maddy_>I see them passed to DoCommandP function as parameters
12:12<andythenorth>Terkhen: got any diffs yet for unified vehicle stuff?
12:13<@Terkhen>andythenorth: there have been many commits about that already
12:13<@Terkhen>for example, the subtype code is now unified
12:13<andythenorth>I'll look in the logs and go read some
12:13<@Terkhen>now I'm profiling a unification of articulated code and getting funny results
12:15<@Terkhen>I'm also planning on unifying Train::GetDisplayImageWidth and RoadVehicle::GetDisplayImageWidth
12:15<@Terkhen>IIRC that's used on the depot GUI
12:15<@Terkhen>after that I'll need to check further code to see what else could go to GroundVehicle
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12:17<maddy_>come on guys this must be really basic, how to display an error message?
12:18<andythenorth>what's the error supposed to say?
12:18<andythenorth>what context is this ?
12:18<andythenorth>and is it similar to anything that already exists?
12:19<maddy_>I see error messages in DoCommandP and then returned as CommandCost objects, but in this case I can't return it because the func type is void (generated from MouseUp event)
12:20<@Terkhen>check the ShowErrorMessage function
12:20<andythenorth>what else behaves in a similar way?
12:20<maddy_>well any error message where you select a tool and click on a tile, e.g. "can't build bridge here"
12:20<@Yexo>that are all commands
12:21<maddy_>Terkhen: yes that's what I was looking for, thanks
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>maddy_: if you want to call that function directly, you probably do something wrong
12:24<maddy_>veryprobably, since I'm beginner at openttd code
12:25<ABCRic>hmm... something is wrong with indenting at
12:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I find at least a few examples where it's called directly :o
12:27<@Terkhen>those are mostly GUI only stuff or things that happen outside a game
12:28<andythenorth>Terkhen: 'engine' and 'wagon' are the preferred terms in variables etc?
12:29<@Terkhen>I think so
12:29<andythenorth>and engine is determined how? - it has power?
12:30<Wolf01>ABCRic use <br clear="all" /> after the "To dO" template
12:30<@Terkhen>IIRC that's how it's done for trains currently, yes
12:30<@Terkhen>but I'm not sure it is done the same way in game code
12:31<@Terkhen>andythenorth: check IsWagon in ground_vehicle.hpp
12:32<@Terkhen>they are subtypes
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12:39<andythenorth>I was reading commits for that :) that's what prompted the question
12:40<@Terkhen>ok :)
12:41<andythenorth>reading commits is quite helpful for understanding
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12:42<maddy_>is there a shortcut to close all windows?
12:44<+glx>ABCRic: should be better now
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12:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r21903 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: warn only once for a train that has invalid length, not for each its wagon with invalid length
12:51<ABCRic>glx: :)
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13:01<maddy_>next problem to solve with programmable signals: my signals GUI closes when programmable-signals GUI opens
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13:02<frosch123>use a different window class or number
13:02<@SmatZ>use differe
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13:05<maddy_>think I do have different window class and window number, if I comment out one function from the gui constructor it works, so it's probably something there
13:06<@SmatZ>what line?
13:07<maddy_>it's a patch file, not in trunk, or you got it too?
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13:09<maddy_>what about ResetObjectToPlace()
13:10<@Terkhen>look for that function in the source, IIRC it is documented
13:13<maddy_>not very well documented, in any case that was the problem, it's working now...wonder why it was needed
13:16<maddy_>tho the names says that's exactly what it's supposed to do, now that I think about it
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13:30<andythenorth>I thought of a way to allow newgrfs to handle articulated (fifth wheel) truck trailers
13:30<andythenorth>introduce a cargo: 'fifth wheel' and refit lead vehicle to that
13:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r21904 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Include the capacity of non-refittable vehicles in the refitted-capacity, if their cargo matches.
13:31<@Terkhen>sounds like regearing
13:31<@Yexo>andythenorth: but that means the rest of the wagons can't be refitted anymore
13:32<@Yexo>at least if they're articulated
13:32*Yexo just realized they're probably not ;)
13:34<andythenorth>it's just like regearing
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13:37<andythenorth>it's almost a correct way to handle it
13:37<andythenorth>w.r.t to real life trucks + it would make sense in game
13:37<andythenorth>wastes a cargo slot though, and only for trucks
13:37<andythenorth>seems a bit expensive
13:38<andythenorth>are vehicles limited by available storage in same way as tiles are limited by map array?
13:39<frosch123>what is the point of that refit? refitting between truck+semi-trailer and non-articulated lorry?
13:39<frosch123>i.e. only visually?
13:40<@Yexo>also, if you go for using a cargoslot to refit, why not reuse the "regearing" cargo?
13:40<andythenorth>frosch123: if rv-wagons becomes available...there will need to be a way to control attachment of trailers
13:40<andythenorth>i.e. articulated (fifth wheel) trailers can only attach to certain truck types
13:41<andythenorth>inside one newgrf it's ok (just a *lot* of ID checks)
13:41<andythenorth>but between newgrfs, almost impossible
13:41<frosch123>you want to distinguish semi-trailers and trailers?
13:42<andythenorth>yes exactly
13:42<andythenorth>but shouldn't need to be hard-coded in openttd
13:42<frosch123>then the first trailer would have a different type than the second trailer... does not sound like good gameplay?
13:42<andythenorth>actually I thought the trailers would choose graphics appropriate to the lead truck
13:42<andythenorth>i.e. add front wheels to the trailer or not
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13:43<andythenorth>but that still means understanding the lead vehicle ID, or something else like the cargo
13:43<andythenorth>I thought of labels
13:43<andythenorth>checking if lead vehicle cargo capacity is 0 doesn't work
13:43<frosch123>andythenorth: but you cannot draw the trailer above the front engine
13:44<frosch123>so you won't be able to draw the wheels of the front vehicle under the trailer
13:44<andythenorth>is it currently possible because they are formally articulated vehicles
13:44<frosch123>you cannot make the sprites overlap correctly
13:45<andythenorth>but within reason, it works
13:45<guru3>So, who's the dev that coasts around servers looking for hackers? (As someone has just claimed...)
13:45<andythenorth>frosch123: I tell to you HEQS :)
13:45<andythenorth>and eGRVTS
13:45<@Yexo>guru3: nobody
13:45<guru3>Yeah thought so.
13:45<@Yexo>who claimed that anyway?
13:46<guru3>"Player #2"
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13:46<guru3>I was highly suspicious to begin with. ;)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r21905 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: japanese - 6 changes by kokubunzi
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: polish - 13 changes by Simek
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by ntadej
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 4 changes by Terkhen
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Fixer
13:46<frosch123>andythenorth: but "within reason" there is no difference between graphics with "front wheels" or without
13:47<@Terkhen>as long as Player #2 does not know about the secret master key we are fine
13:47<andythenorth>frosch123: depends on how reasonable reason is :P
13:47<andythenorth>there are glitches with current HEQS / eGRVTS implementations
13:47<frosch123>guru3: we do not do that ourself, we outsourced that to the CIA
13:47<andythenorth>but nobody seems to complain, and it doesn't make my eyes bleed :D
13:50<andythenorth>for HEQS and eGRVTS, some parts of the lead vehicle aren't drawn
13:50<guru3>frosch123: That sounds most reasonable. :)
13:50<andythenorth>that improves some of the drawing limitations
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13:50*Terkhen never noticed that
13:51<andythenorth>it's necessary
13:51<andythenorth>unless we make what I guess is a considerable change to the sprite sorter
13:53<guru3>Huh. I'd for forgotten to build a headquarters. Fixed that. :D
13:53<guru3>Now my company is compelte.
13:54<guru3>Profit up by 33% last year! :D
13:54<maddy_>thanks all for help on the code, gonna continue later :)
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13:58*andythenorth wonders about some kind of storage for vehicles
13:58<andythenorth>regearing / performance adjustments
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14:02<guru3>Anywho, time for dinner, ta-ta.
14:02<andythenorth>almost something like action 14...
14:03<andythenorth>vehicle options - with newgrf definable list
14:03<andythenorth>bool or value range
14:03<guru3>OK, one quick thing. How does one destroy ones entire company?
14:03<andythenorth>pull the power cord
14:03<andythenorth>sorry :P
14:04<@Yexo>"stop_ai <company_num>" or "reset_company <company_num>"
14:04<guru3>Does that work when Iim just a client?
14:04<@Yexo>probably not
14:04<@Yexo>not sure if there is a way in that case
14:05<guru3>Darn. Don't want to leave my company cluttering up the map.
14:05<guru3>Network game...
14:06<ABCRic>wait, that keeps the company...
14:06*ABCRic has 0 OpenTTD multiplayer experience
14:06<+michi_cc>andythenorth: seems like what you'd want for RV wagons.
14:06<@Terkhen>stop all vehicles, demolish all the water you can and wait :)
14:06<andythenorth>anyone used to play lemmings?
14:06*Terkhen did
14:07<andythenorth>the 'nuke' option was fun
14:07<guru3>I'd rather go out with a bang. I've got a top of the scoreboard company afterall. :)
14:07<andythenorth>'nuke' would be a nice patch
14:07<guru3>From 0 to Chairman in 5 years. Way too easy a server. -_-
14:07<@Terkhen>now that you mentioned it I want to see it working :)
14:07<andythenorth>would have to send all vehicles to depot first
14:07<andythenorth>nuke would walk the map, find all tiles marked with infrastructure belonging to player
14:08<andythenorth>if tile is a depot, sell all vehicles in depot
14:08<@Terkhen>I was thinking on exploding all vehicles on the map at once
14:08<andythenorth>then call clear on every other piece of infrastructure
14:08<@Terkhen>what you mention is already coded
14:08<ABCRic>Terkhen: :D
14:08<andythenorth>exploding would be a bigger patch :)
14:08<guru3>Could be a disaster - some sort of corporate espionage. ;)
14:08<@Terkhen>if you open a savegame in the scenario editor you can remove all company property
14:08<andythenorth>exploding would leave infrastructure behind with vehicles stuck on it :P
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14:08<@Terkhen>yes :)
14:08<@Terkhen>it would be a useless patch
14:08<simon>hey guys!
14:08<@Terkhen>hi simon
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14:09<andythenorth>terkhen I was looking at something earlier today
14:09<andythenorth>in the master vehicle lists - there's the 'send all to depot' buttons etc
14:09<andythenorth>I was thinking 'ignore signals' - for all :P
14:09<@Terkhen>that would be fun too :D
14:09<guru3>Only if you use signals... ><
14:10<ABCRic>sounds cool :D
14:10<Guest1367>Ive been searching all pages I could find and google, but couldnt find help: How do I set up a server/create a game with a city builder grf? (let's say, Ex's city builder)
14:10<ABCRic>and a crash option for aircraft
14:10<guru3>I tend to not build networks, and instead do two and three train lines. Ignoring signals probably wouldn't do much then unless it became 'ignore signals indefinetely.'
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14:11<@Terkhen>Guest1367: city building servers use customized code in their servers, you can't add that with a NewGRF
14:11<ABCRic>and a capsize option for rvs :P
14:11<simonplaysopenttd>so there is basically no way of playing "city builder" offline?
14:11<guru3>Trains could have a 'run at 125%' so that they overheat and explode. :)
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14:12<andythenorth>basically all vehicles would just be set to 'collided'
14:12<andythenorth>and then when no vehicles were left, destroy all infrastructure?
14:12<@Terkhen>simonplaysopenttd: you can try to ask them for the code or a compiled binary
14:12<guru3>How about an airstrike option? Call in the military to destroy all vehicules.
14:12<simonplaysopenttd>I asked the guys from luukland, but they didnt want to give me anything for unexplainable reasons...
14:13<guru3>Right, I've given up the adiction and just left my company there. Now off to do dinner...
14:13<@Terkhen>simonplaysopenttd: I guess they don't want clones of their servers
14:14<simonplaysopenttd>why does city builder not get into the core of the game?
14:14<andythenorth>how about the ufo disaster - en masse
14:14<andythenorth>like certain films we could name
14:14<guru3>I'd take it. :) (Now gone for real...)
14:14<ABCRic>300 UFOs come out of nowhere and blow up our vehicles with lazors? :D
14:14<andythenorth>michi_cc: thanks - that's relevant. With rv-wagons, what I forsee is exactly what Eddi|zuHause said here:
14:15<@Terkhen>simonplaysopenttd: I never have seen a patch for that
14:17<V453000>it is just modified by newGRFs, isnt it?
14:18<@Yexo><simonplaysopenttd> why does city builder not get into the core of the game? <- because they do not share their source code, ie for the same reason you can't play it offline
14:18<@Yexo>V453000: no, it's also a modified server binary
14:18<V453000>I see :)
14:19<ABCRic>what is this city builder you speak about?
14:20<@Terkhen>a server
14:20*andythenorth ponders
14:21<andythenorth>with engine pool, generally a way to provide inter-operability control would be useful
14:21<andythenorth>basically similar in concept to current use of rail types
14:21<andythenorth>but vehicle-vehicle, not vehicle-infrastructure
14:21<andythenorth>possibly that would make cb1D / 15E checks would be quite simple
14:25<andythenorth>I can see an issue, but also maybe a way to solve it
14:25<simonplaysopenttd>ok, so we have to code a new city builder...
14:30<Xaroth_>Yexo: shouldn't they be 'forced' to release their source to anybody who wishes to see it, or does that only apply to when they start distributing the server binary?
14:30<@Yexo>that only applies when they distribute their server binary
14:30<Xaroth_>ah, yeh
14:30<Xaroth_>sucks :P
14:31<andythenorth>if it was aGPL it would be different
14:31<@Terkhen>yes it does
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15:31*andythenorth does draw
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17:25<ABCRic>good night
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18:09<@Terkhen>good night
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18:54<TrueBrain>dihedral: please refrain yourself from abusing DorpsGek. It is not really much appreciated, and I really don't feel like removing individual commands. I rather kick people instead ;) Tnx :)
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 24 00:00:40 2011