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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-01-31

---Logopened Mon Jan 31 00:00:40 2011
00:04<Eddi|zuHause>tried ctrl+alt+c?
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00:21<andrew12>Eddi|zuHause: that isn't quite what i meant ;)
00:24<andrew12>i mean like a flat world with nothing on it.. and you get to build industries
00:25<andrew12>it'd be useful to test things like junctions to see if you understand them properly.. :p
00:26<andrew12>though making an empty scenario works :p
00:50<andrew12>except the whole "only 1 allowed per town"
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00:57<andrew12>of course, there's an advanced setting for that
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01:26<andrew12>i wonder if this is turing complete ;)
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02:31<@Terkhen>good morning
02:31<@Terkhen>andrew12: if you are interested there are some posts about logic gates at the forum
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07:03<DanMacK>Hey all
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08:02<DanMacK>Hey Lakie
08:02<Lakie>Hi DanMacK
08:04<Lakie>Hi planetmaker
08:05*Lakie wonders if kemnat realizes the work behind splitting larger projects...
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08:11<@planetmaker>I meanwhile think that there's a reasonable size and boundaries for projects
08:12<@planetmaker>The natural boundaries IMHO are the feature boundaries. Combining them makes it harder for the player without much need coding-wise
08:12<@planetmaker>most often
08:12<@planetmaker>Including a dock in a ship set... well :-)
08:12<@planetmaker>those are border cases
08:12<@planetmaker>Also one can split e.g. a road vehicle set between busses, trams and trucks
08:12<Lakie>Stations with a train grf?
08:13<@planetmaker>nah, they're separate :-)
08:13<@planetmaker>They're not really related
08:13<@planetmaker>but a station grf with one station: also silly
08:13<@planetmaker>so: one station: ok and border-line. But if it gets bigger: better split
08:14<Lakie>I guess
08:14<@planetmaker>so better split it in the beginning ;-) and sell it as taster station grf... difficult, yes
08:14<Lakie>Heh, well not really difficualt more inconvient
08:14<@planetmaker>too many 1-thing grfs bloat the grf list
08:15<@planetmaker>difficult decision I meant. Yes :-)
08:15<Lakie>But cherry picking each object / station in a grf is somewhat unfeasable sometimes.
08:15<@planetmaker>oh, sure.
08:15<@planetmaker>Cherry picking every single engine in a set like 2ccTS: impossible
08:15<@planetmaker>Cherry-picking "steamers", "metro", "small subset": very desirable
08:16<@planetmaker>also: no player is forced to use every vehicle.
08:16<@planetmaker>even in a MP environment: you can agree to not use vehicle XY
08:16<@planetmaker>no problem
08:16<DanMacK>Exactly... people comment on NARS being too "packed"
08:16<DanMacK>Not many railroads used all locos ;)
08:17<Lakie>Use the ones you like leave the rest...
08:17<Lakie>People do that anyway...
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08:17<@planetmaker>yeah. But yes, it makes sense for big vehicle sets to possibly offer the option to cut down the choice to a still logical and sensible subset
08:17*andythenorth couldn't resist replying to the stupid stupid thread
08:17<andythenorth>you're discussing it too?
08:18<DanMacK>Hey Andy
08:18<andythenorth>where's the fricking wat?
08:18<@planetmaker>not sure :-) moin andy
08:18<andythenorth>war /s
08:18<andythenorth>where's the war?
08:18<Lakie>Hi andythenorth
08:18<Lakie>Don't see one...
08:19*DanMacK neither
08:19<andythenorth>apparently I'm at war with someone
08:19<andythenorth>I don't know if I'm a 'designer' or a 'developer' though :P
08:19<@planetmaker>gah. why did you mention that thread, andythenorth ? I totally ignored and forgot it - till now :S
08:19<andythenorth>nothing like wasting a short part of our short lives s;P
08:19<@planetmaker>lol :-)
08:19<DanMacK>Andy... I'd say both
08:19*andythenorth has is about to get sucked into a flame war like an internet noob
08:20<Lakie>I'd prefer no war, I'd hate to end up having to lock and warn peeps...
08:21<DanMacK>Throw water on it before it's too late :P
08:21<@planetmaker>on sodium?
08:27*andythenorth wonders
08:27<andythenorth>could new objects have tile-based cargo acceptance?
08:28<andythenorth>this would be pure black-hole stuff
08:28<andythenorth>no code to do anything with the cargo
08:28<@planetmaker>they know nothing about cargo
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08:29<andythenorth>so to get PAX acceptance at something like a lighthouse or hydro-power plant, better to do an industry?
08:30<@planetmaker>you'd need to, yes.
08:30<@planetmaker>or a house. But you cannot place that...
08:30<Lakie>objects have no code to do with cargo stuff at all... (simplicity was their purpose)
08:30*andythenorth ponders 'eye candy industries'
08:30<andythenorth>what are HQs conceptually?
08:30*planetmaker has an eye candy power plant ;-)
08:30<andythenorth>houses, or 'HQs'
08:30<@planetmaker>HQs are HQs ;-)
08:31<@planetmaker>though they count internally as a kind of special object. At least in OpenTTD
08:31<Lakie>Special object...
08:31*Lakie was too lazy to have to hack it around...
08:32<andythenorth>I want to do a lightship
08:32<andythenorth>to which I can deliver PAX and stuff
08:32<@planetmaker>he. "Elbe 1"?
08:33<@planetmaker>it would need to be an industry, I guess. Currently there's no other option.
08:33<andythenorth>the world's largest lightship?
08:33<andythenorth>doesn't look that big :P
08:33<Lakie>Going futuristic?
08:34<Lakie>Hmm... that could be a small problem in testing...
08:35<Lakie>Needs like vista upwards (windows api changes) and only got win7 to test the check is working...
08:35*andythenorth back to work
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08:47<Eddi|zuHause>better to do an object and live without the ability to have cargo acceptance
08:47<@planetmaker>hm... my e-mail address dedicated to communications with Sun now receives e-mail from Oracle :S
08:47<Lakie>Did Sun get bought by Oracle?
08:48<@planetmaker>even though they discontinue everything I ever found interesting to register an e-mail at sun...
08:48<FauxFaux>Lakie: ...
08:48<@planetmaker>yes, I know too well...
08:51<Lakie>Didn't* ?
08:51*Lakie wasn't sure, was a while back...
08:52<@planetmaker>oracle bought sun, yes.
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11:51*DanMacK thinks enhanced bouys needs to be brought into OTTD
11:51<@Terkhen>enhanced in which way?
11:51<Eddi|zuHause> <--- err. wtf?
11:51<DanMacK>as in TTDP to use them as docks
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>DanMacK: nah, that's silly
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>DanMacK: rather "extended docks" need to be brought into ottd
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>like "river docks" that don't need sloped land. or "ocean platforms" if you really need a buoy-like dock in the middle of nowhere
11:54<DanMacK>well, I'd like the ability to have a station alongside a water slope and the ships actually go lengthwise along it
11:54<Ammler>I wonder, shouldn't it be possible to make a oil rig, which does not procude any oil?
11:54<DanMacK>mainly eye candy, I'll admit, but it looks better
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: you can have any industry create a dock/heliport like an oil rig
11:55<@planetmaker>yes. But Eddi is right: buoys is the wrong concept. Newgrf ports is proper ;-)
11:55<@planetmaker>which allow somewhat arbitrary ground tiles
11:57<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: only industries?
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11:57<@planetmaker>so far: yes
11:57<Ammler>maybe also objects does allow that?
11:57<@planetmaker>no, not as station
11:58<Ammler>ah indeed
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13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: translators * r21931 /trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 81 changes by myquartz
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13:51<IchGuckLive>Hi all ,what happens to the vehicles if they run out of the years ?
13:51<IchGuckLive>will they stop at the depo or break down ?
13:52<Markk>If you have vehicle breakdowns on, yes.
13:52<IchGuckLive>or shoudt i considder to renew them years bevore
13:52<Markk>They will break down more and more often.
13:52<IchGuckLive>260 trains 120 car
13:53<IchGuckLive>thats alot of work
13:53<Markk>They can renew themself.
13:53<Markk>If you activate it and put some depots here and there.
13:53<IchGuckLive>oh got to find this in wiki
13:54<IchGuckLive>its in the settings ?
13:54<Markk>Can check where
13:55<IchGuckLive>il find it
13:55<Markk>Advanced Settings -> Vehicles -> Autorenew.
13:56<IchGuckLive>got it already
14:00<IchGuckLive>one more Question in the Trailer there are 2 tracks without stations at the cole mine to the left ,WHAT are this for ?
14:00<IchGuckLive>yust spacing to the city
14:01<Markk>Which trailer?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't have any purpose
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>Markk: the intro game
14:02<IchGuckLive>thanks and bye
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14:03<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: Ah
14:03<Markk>That one :)
14:03<DanMacK>hey andy
14:03<andythenorth>DanMacK: interesting freighter :P
14:03<DanMacK>Isn't it though
14:03<andythenorth>I can't think what cargo that would be :)
14:03<DanMacK>well, I'd say Vehicles...
14:04<DanMacK>but there's no vehicle chain in FIRS :P
14:04<andythenorth>I can't think where steam locomotives would be delivered to :P
14:05<DanMacK>yeah... a harbour maybe...
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14:14<@planetmaker>[20:04] <DanMacK> but there's no vehicle chain in FIRS :P <-- some vehicles can perfectly well be farm supplies ;-)
14:15<andythenorth>planetmaker: this one would be stretching that :)
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>does logging into steam take forever for anyone besides me?
14:28*andythenorth is feeling grumpy
14:28<andythenorth>and ranty
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>(i mean that question seriously)
14:29<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: it took a bit more seconds than usual but it logged in fine for me
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: it seems to be done now, but it took way more than a minute for me...
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14:30<starn>Hello, everyone
14:30<@Terkhen>hi starn
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>i have no comparative data on whether it's because of my relatively low connection bandwidth, or because i'm running wine, or something else...
14:31<starn>how are you Terkhen?
14:32<starn>openttd and opendune makes me want opensimfarm and opensimearth and others ahahaha :P
14:32<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: right now I tried on windows, when I log in under wine it needs more time
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14:48<ccfreak2k>Eddi|zuHause, slow all the time?
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>ccfreak2k: pretty much, but this time it was kinda extreme
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15:02<Zuu>lol, I added soo many rail/road level crossings in my last title game without even thinking about that they can be noisy.
15:04<frosch123>hmm, when loading a tto game... two-way signals only is a pain :s
15:05<Zuu>well, I didn't even hear a single ding dong with OpenGFX. (I didn't use my hearing aids and my high frequecy hearing is about 40dB worse than lower ferquecies. :-p
15:18<@planetmaker>well. OpenGFX has no sounds ;-)
15:18<@planetmaker>You need to turn them on by using a sound set :-P
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15:27<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r21932 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Document: some tidbits related to vehicles
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15:38<DanMacK>Frosch, that brings back memories... lol
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15:40*DanMacK remembers trying to build complex networks in TTO
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15:44<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r21933 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 3 dirs):
15:44<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split cur_order_index into cur_auto_order_index and cur_real_order_index to keep track of the current real order in an unambiguous way.
15:44<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4440]: Automatic orders behave now stable wrt. service orders and are not added or removed depending on the need of servicing.
15:44<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Fix: Various other issues with automatic orders, e.g. vehicles getting stuck with "no orders" when there are automatic orders at the end of the order list.
15:47<perk11>EddizuHause: <--- err. wtf?
15:48<frosch123>oh, windows knows 'localhost' these days?
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>i actually managed to build one-way rails using two-way signals back then ;)
15:48<perk11>it's been a while since it knew it
15:49<perk11>Eddi|zuHause: how?
15:56<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r21934 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r21933): The original plan was to run the regression before committing.
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16:01<Prof_Frink>I remember the main annoyance being no signals on diagonal track
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16:12<@Terkhen>I did not even know about signals back then
16:20*DanMacK learned by watching the AI :P
16:21<@Terkhen>didn't you end up with a compulsion to terraform with no reason?
16:23<DanMacK>sometimes... lol
16:26*DanMacK thinks turnouts need to show the direction they're for
16:33<Wolf01> interesting
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17:09<andythenorth>good night
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17:16<Nite>is anyone thinking of a reworked service/breakdown system atm?
17:17<@SmatZ>hi, I don't think so
17:17<Zuu>planetmaker: I ment to say OpenSFX :-D
17:19<Nite>ottd is a silent game for me, all noises are muted always
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17:23<Nite>have to go cya
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17:26<@Terkhen>good night
17:39<@planetmaker>hehe, Zuu :-)
17:39<@planetmaker>good night though. With whatever loud or silent dreams you may wish for :-)
17:41<Zuu>hehe :-)
17:41<Zuu>good night PM
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 01 00:00:40 2011