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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-02-07

---Logopened Mon Feb 07 00:00:48 2011
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00:28<CaNsA>hey dudes,
00:28<CaNsA>how can i add grf to an existing game in ottd r22002?
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00:39<@planetmaker>wow. You managed to ask the same question in the forums as also asked in the thread posted in previously. Congratulations.
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02:47<dihedral>good morning
02:47<kamnet>good morning
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02:53<dihedral>if foundations support the ground you are building on - why not let foundations support the ground that would collaps, too?
02:53<dihedral>e.g. with making one tile level on a slope
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03:41<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:31<dihedral>anybody familiar with veeam?
04:31<dihedral>i need to restore a single file
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04:50<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22006 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#4480]: smoke/sparks of trains would be shown under bridges, or rather through bridges
04:51<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22007 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Change: only show one AI per unique ID instead of all versions in the output of "openttd -h"
04:53<@planetmaker>ah, the latter is nice :-)
04:55<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22008 /trunk/config.lib: -Add [FS#4470]: log the command that invocated configure in config.log
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06:09<Xaroth> (dutch site) << in case somebody missed it yesterday, ottd got tweakered...
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06:14<blathijs>Hmm, the comment on that page seems to have a useful complaint
06:15<blathijs>"Remove: Settings for vehicle speed in the vehicle view, long date in status bar, drawing of bridge pillars, support for depot orders, time tabling and joining of stations upon building" from the changelog is slightly confusing
06:15<blathijs>Rubidium: ^^
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06:18<@planetmaker>it says Remove: first item, 2nd item, 3rd item...
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06:38<blathijs>planetmaker: I mean that people might not interpret "Settings for" correctly, and thing those features are removed entirely
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07:04<DanMacK>Hey all
07:04<@Terkhen>hi DanMacK
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09:52<DanMacK>Hey Scuddles
09:53<Scuddles>Hello DanMacK
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10:38<@planetmaker>hi supermop & Wolf01
10:39<supermop>how is it going planetmaker?
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11:26<Rubidium>blathijs: I guess I should start using parenthesis to separate the parts
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12:36<DanMacK>Hey Lakie
12:36<Lakie>Hi DanMacK
12:39<@planetmaker>salut you two :-)
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12:47<blathijs>Rubidium: Perhaps add a extra note "These features can no longer be disabled and are now always active" for the final release or something
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12:53<Nite>the old mammoth trains setting was an equivalent to the max trainlenght 64 setting ?
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>technically, the max train length is 50
12:54<Nite>so why can i set it to 64 ?
12:54<Nite>you mean stationsize is 50 max?
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>don't know, but you can only have 100 vehicles
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>in one train
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>at least you used to...
12:55<Nite>i try that (stationsize is also 64 btw)
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13:00<@peter1138>Well, are you saying that the new option should be limited to the range of the old option... for... some reason?
13:02<Nite>seems teh 50 limit has fallen i can do 64 trains even with very short wagons
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>interesting. never tried in a long time...
13:05<Nite>how do i get information on how many wagons a train has without counting - max load / singel waggon load might work
13:05<Nite>i like long trains though large station sizes make beaming toomcuh possible to not do it ;)
13:06<V453000>you use 50 tile long trains?
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13:06<V453000>or longer ...
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13:06<Nite>i test it with 64 train/station now
13:07<V453000>I am not asking about testing but casual use :)
13:07<Nite>is a fixed minimum spacing between industries possible
13:08<Nite>- off ocurse it is more experimental atm - buzt i plan to have a game with 32 at least
13:08<Nite>ok and how do i set that?
13:09<@planetmaker>(re-)code your industry newgrf
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13:09<Nite>(if i set the min space between industries to doubel the station size i would not be able to beam)
13:10<@planetmaker>but there's somewhere in the adv. setting a min separation setting, too, IIRC
13:10<Nite>can i set it for ottd in general in some config file?
13:10<Nite>i will look for it
13:11<@planetmaker>settings->economy->industries->flat area around industries: n tile(s)
13:11<@planetmaker>but that does not generally stop industries being build adjacent.
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13:12<Nite>what is teh "flat area around industries" setting?
13:13<Nite>oh you answered before asking
13:15<Nite>also flat around indus. is max 4 tiles
13:18<Nite>i cannot switch off the ability to construct secondary industries :-O
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13:23<@planetmaker>Nite: make it too expensive ;-)
13:23<Nite>whats "variety distribution" in landscape generation for?
13:24<@planetmaker>not a few million but a few billion or trillion
13:24<@planetmaker>feature size so to speak
13:24<Nite>you mean with basecost mod? i guess
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13:27<Nite>i always forget which fiel to delete to get the standard advancedsettings
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13:28<Rubidium>Nite: I guess you accidentally removed the wrong file in that case
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>the wrong file is the one called readme.txt
13:29<Zuu>Especially if you try to get the standard settings in a running game ^^
13:29<Nite>also a little tiny detai i miss for some time in ottd is the red blinking square that indicates what tiel to change if you are unable to build a certain part of track ... (btw)
13:30<Nite>- no i did not delete anything wrong ;)
13:30<Nite>- i never grasped what readme.txt files are for anyway ;P
13:31<@planetmaker>you're not alone ;-)
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13:32<Nite>ok ok - i read 6.0
13:33<@planetmaker>hello frosch123
13:33<frosch123>hello frogs !
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: translators * r22009 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: croatian - 11 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: estonian - 3 changes by notAbot
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: romanian - 10 changes by kkmic
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: russian - 5 changes by KorneySan, Lone_Wolf, perk11
13:45<bb10X>Why do roadvehicles only use 1 of the 2 lanes on one way roads?
13:46-!-bb10X is now known as bb10
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>bb10: because the overtaking code can't handle it
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13:49<z5000man>Wait, TTD? Is this the open-source of Transport Tycoon?
13:49<z5000man>no way, I love that game!
13:50<+glx>it's the deluxe one
13:50<z5000man>okay, so like 1996 or so?
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>no, we are in 2011, like the rest of the world.
13:50<@planetmaker>like 2011
13:51<DanMacK>Transport Tycoon is Eternal
13:51<z5000man>ah, I see.
13:51<DanMacK>Dates do not matter
13:51<z5000man>Are there a lot of players online now?
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13:52<@planetmaker>yes and no. Depends on the definition of both 'lots' and 'online'
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>the amount of online players is probably below 1% of the total players
13:52<@planetmaker>I'd bet, too
13:52*DanMacK has played online and enjoyed it...
13:53<z5000man>really? wow. Transport Tycoon was the foundation to so many games.
13:53*DanMacK prefers to play solo though... AI's are generally just annoying
13:53<@planetmaker>That's why I got stuck with this game...
13:53<@planetmaker>...playing online got me somewhat addicted to this game :-)
13:53<DanMacK>It was the foundation, and that's why it's the most solid of all of them
13:54*DanMacK has been playing off and on since it came out
13:54<DanMacK>Now however, mostly on
13:55<z5000man>My favorite game was on a US map, I started it in 1950 with 3 AIs, and played it through. A lot of time, but a lot of fun.
13:55<Nite>also we often are asleep while playing ;P
13:56<DanMacK>Should try that on Open TTD, starting on a large US Map with 3 new AI's and the North American Renewal Set :P
13:56<z5000man>Do they have a custom US vehicle set?!?!
13:56<z5000man>I might die.
13:56<Nite>try nars2
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>and a huge USA map
13:57<z5000man>I just switched to linux, but I will try and figure this out. It sounds like major reminiscing...
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13:58<DanMacK>The North American Renewal Set is all trains
13:59<Nite>there are some servers with it online
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14:02<Zuu>z5000man: Shouldn't be much/any harder on Linux than on Windows depending on how new you are on Linux.
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14:19<DanMacK>Hey Andy
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14:26<z5000man>Okay, it's up and going, but I don't have sound...
14:27*dihedral sends z5000man a beep
14:29<Zuu>z5000man: Do you have OpenSFX or
14:30<Zuu>no clue really. maybe it is related to the sound system that OpenTTD uses and is muted somehow.
14:31<Zuu>(did you go to the music window and make sure the internal volume control in OpenTTD is > 0? )
14:33<dihedral>does sound work with everything else?
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14:35<dihedral>ah - you got your server back then, ey? :-D
14:36<z-MaTRiX>30224 < z-MaTRiX> created an xorg conf file, added custom monitor information and kde4 uses it
14:36<z-MaTRiX>030225 < z-MaTRiX> ;>
14:36<z-MaTRiX>030242 < z-MaTRiX> 1792x1344
14:38<z5000man>yeah, but the songs were just rotating through very fast and making no sound on the menus either.
14:39<Ammler>z5000man: that sounds more like music not sound :-)
14:39<Ammler>you might need timidity
14:42<z5000man>I thought maybe it might have something to do with having to direct the program through pulseaudio, because I was having problems on some other programs too. But I really don't know much about it.
14:42<dihedral>i use pulse
14:44<Ammler>z5000man: so timitdy is installed?
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14:53<simon_>hej hej! I recently saved a multiplayer game and would like to continue it. Unfortunately I am not playing the company I used to play while in multiplayer...
14:53<simon_>is there a way to change company without cheating?
14:54<Zuu>Also for music you need a music pack.
14:54<Zuu>But if it skips the songs you probably got songs :-)
14:55<@planetmaker>simon_: what's wrong about cheating the correct company?
14:55<@planetmaker>would you use it if it was called "switch companies" as it is in on a server?
14:57<simon_>if you cheat, you won't get listed in the highscore table...
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>simon_: the other option would be joining a multiplayer game hosted locally, but you will need twice the processor power
14:59<simon_>I mean, there could be a paramter to load a game, that you play company #nr
14:59<simon_>or something like that
14:59<simon_>yea, I won#t host the game...
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15:00<z5000man>I went through the install on timidity and the configure action ended with this line "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
15:00<dihedral>ctrl+c will as far as i know give you the only option, or host a server simply by loading the save game in the 'start server' window
15:00<dihedral>then you can simply 'move' to the company
15:01<simon_>jah, I know... but thanks anyt
15:01<dihedral>it will not affect anything else, as nobody will be able to connect to your server at home unless you have setup forwarding
15:01<dihedral>and it will not show up in the list
15:01<dihedral>if you have forwarding configured, chose another port ;-)
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>z5000man: use your package manager to install
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>z5000man: don't compile unless you need to
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15:06<Rubidium>simon_: just start a non-dedicated server with that game (without advertising), and then join the right company. You might need to "spectate" before you're able to join another company
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15:07<dihedral>Rubidium, can you clarify that? the 'spectate before join' part
15:08<simon_>he means that you dont join or create a company
15:08<simon_>right from the beginning
15:08<simon_>you can also just watch a game without actually playing a company
15:08<dihedral>you start as company one, i do not see why you need to join specators first before joining another company ;-)
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15:09<Rubidium>dihedral: I'm not sure that it works from company to company, so instead of checking it I wrote that it might be needed
15:09<Rubidium>like saying you might need to relogin before some changes take effect
15:10<dihedral>ah :-)
15:10<dihedral>i was just curious ;-)
15:10<dihedral>yes, you should be able to simply move between companies freely :-)
15:10<Rubidium>in 99% of the times it works just right, but it's just the 1% that goes wrong you don't want to write a second message for
15:10<dihedral>especially as server
15:10<Rubidium>I'm not talking about the "move" command though
15:11<Nite>(a merge companies option comes to mind here ... btw )
15:12<z5000man>okay. Timidity is installed
15:12<dihedral>which would be the same as buying it out
15:14<Rubidium>dihedral: you know... the company windows having the "join" button and the company dropdown (occasionally) having the "spectate" option?
15:14<Nite>true, teh same but without bancrupcy before
15:15<Rubidium>z5000man: are you trying to make the music play or the sound effects?
15:15<Rubidium>if it's the music, you might need to manually start the music in-game as when it fails to play the music it automatically stops trying
15:16<Nite>just merge two existing companies if two players agree ... (not a must have, but a often thought idea i guess)
15:16<z5000man>Rubidium: either would be nice
15:17<z5000man>quick question first. Is the game supposed to be installed in a certain directory?
15:17<Rubidium>known-bugs.txt lists some problems with PulseAudio; it may be related with your problem
15:18<z5000man>ill check it out
15:34<Nite>no ceartain directory afaik
15:36<andythenorth>DanMacK: salt cargo for FIRS?
15:37<DanMacK>Was thinking so
15:37<DanMacK>Can go to Stockyard/packing plant, fish harbour and possibly builder's yard
15:37<andythenorth>where does it come from?
15:37<DanMacK>Can also serve as a source of chemicals
15:38<DanMacK>Salt mine
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15:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22010 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Feature-ette [FS#4131]: [NewGRF] Test all possible industry layouts during construction and add another pony to andy's stables
15:46<andythenorth>hah ha
15:46<andythenorth>will that make 1.1?
15:46<andythenorth>or too late?
15:47<CIA-11>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22011 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Rename a few variables and enhance code clearity
15:47<xiong>It seems my vehicles don't service when their service interval is reached. I've checked; and it's not a marginal thing: I just watched a road vehicle scheduled to service every 105 days bypass a depot although it was over 150 days since serviced. What can cause this, aside from setting 'no service if no breakdowns'? Is timetabling involved? Do go-to-depot orders screw up automatic servicing? Do all pros just order servicing explicitl
15:47<xiong>y, or force it, so the issue is considered trivial?
15:48<@planetmaker>that'll be in 1.1
15:48<CIA-11>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22012 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] Test all industry layouts also when prospecting
15:48<andythenorth>I can use that :)
15:48<@planetmaker>:-P Who would guess ;-)
15:48<andythenorth>making FIRS use 1.1 is no problem
15:50<xiong>Oh, and yes, I have another hypothesis: that non-stop orders appear to suppress servicing. Trouble is, none of these seem to hold consistently. I've googled, wiki'd, forumed, and experimented. What am I missing?
15:52<@planetmaker>oh, salt cargo? That'd open the option to create Stockfisk ;-)
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15:52<@planetmaker>And re-build the town of Kristiansund ;-)
15:52<@planetmaker>and ship that stockfisk to all over the world ;-)
15:53<supermop>salt would be great for pre- and early industrial economies
15:54<@planetmaker>yeah :-)
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15:54<@planetmaker>much better than valuables :-)
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15:54<supermop>a little less needed in a post modern world, but essential before refrigeration et al
15:55<@planetmaker>that's why I mentioned stockfisk ;-)
15:55<supermop>also, it is needed to make ice cream
15:55<DanMacK>well, the brine is... ;)
15:55*DanMacK starts drawing a pickle car for NARS...
15:56<@planetmaker>salt car!
15:56<andythenorth>we need somewhere for veggies to go :)
15:56<supermop>if your train is too late delivering BEER, it becomes vinegar, and you have to reroute it to the pickle factory
15:56<@planetmaker>vegie soup needs a grain of salt, too ;-)
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15:56<@Belugas>a grain? a lot!
15:57*Belugas shivers at the possible taste of unsalted vegie soup
15:57<@planetmaker>:-) depends on the grain size, Belugas ;-)
15:59<@planetmaker> <-- a bit larger - and you can buy it by the m^3 en bloc
15:59<@peter1138>"en bloc"
16:00<supermop>could aalso get it from shallow coastal waters
16:01<Nite>you can use dried vegetables for veggi soup then you need less or no salt at all ...
16:01*andythenorth forsees an entire food and drink economy
16:02*andythenorth votes for jam
16:02*DanMacK senses a FIRS revamp for toyland
16:03<@planetmaker>hm... *that* might make sense. Not toy, but food land :-)
16:03<supermop>well, things like salt, pickles, cured fish and meats, and alcohol at one time comprised much of the transport economy
16:03<Nite>votes for zwetschkenknoedel and powidltatschgerl :P
16:03<@Belugas>quite :D
16:03<@planetmaker>apple pie transporter. Salt lorrey, soup cettle... :-)
16:03*Belugas starts to get hungry
16:03<@planetmaker>oh... the soup cettle wagon... - are you up for that, DanMacK ?
16:03<@Belugas>BIG TIME
16:03<supermop>good thing i just ate
16:04<@planetmaker>or what we could use now already the sweets jars on the flatbed :-D
16:04<andythenorth>food land
16:04<@planetmaker>I'd feel at home :-P
16:04*andythenorth wonders about resurrecting block-land mod
16:04<andythenorth>cargos: 1x1 bricks, 1x2 bricks, 4x2 plates
16:04<Nite>i just ordered japanese food - so mail could be ...
16:05<andythenorth>no PAX
16:05<andythenorth>minifigs instead
16:05<DanMacK>Special bricks pay more
16:05<DanMacK>Statue would be an old school large fig :P
16:05<supermop>plastic mine -> injection mold
16:06<DanMacK>Would trains be in push, 4.5V and 9V varities?
16:06<andythenorth>rail types
16:06<supermop>blue, grey
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>anyone remembers 4.5V "flat" batteries? ;)
16:06<andythenorth>roads already look like road plates
16:06<andythenorth>Monorail was epic
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen one of those in years ;)
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16:06<supermop>sah a bunch of old blue track while i was in London
16:07<supermop>differentiate between the town airport monorail and the various space monorails?
16:08<Nite>i remember those electronic "things" that needed up to 3 different kinds of batteries - 9v block some aa and a coin cell ...
16:08<supermop>why has no one ever considered brio?
16:08<Wolf01>million$$$ in lego parts :S
16:08*DanMacK tyhought about it
16:08<Nite>omg brio
16:09<supermop>would look better in locomotion perhaps...
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>what's brio?
16:09<Nite>i hate stuff that uses batteries btw
16:09<supermop>is awesome and swedish
16:09<supermop>and wood
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>is that an oxymoron? :p
16:10<supermop>i had a little pair of brio engineer's overalls when i was 3 or 4
16:10<@planetmaker>brio... the wooden rails?
16:10<Nite>it had magnetic coupling
16:11<@planetmaker>they still have. And they still dwell in my living room
16:11<@planetmaker>I usually combined the brio rails with the Lego town ;-)
16:12<supermop>when i was about 5 i really wanted the brio series 0 shinkansen
16:12<supermop>now they seem to have a brio n700
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>ah... wood... we poor Ossis only had plastic railways :)
16:13<supermop>brio 225 in swallow:
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>that picture is... tiny
16:13<supermop>wanted that even before i really understood what an 1c225 was
16:14<andythenorth>I had red plastic trains
16:14<supermop>best i could find on google
16:14<andythenorth>same style as brio
16:14<andythenorth>but plastic :)
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16:15*andythenorth had this:
16:15<andythenorth>that Andrew in the blog post is not me
16:16<andythenorth>the turntable was geared and fricking awesome
16:16<@planetmaker>wood is so much better :-)
16:16<andythenorth>aesthetics don't beat nostalgia :)
16:16<@planetmaker>hehe :-) - quite
16:17<supermop>a train set to a little kid is beautiful no matter what
16:17*DanMacK had a set similar to that
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16:19<andythenorth>must be something about it that leads to pixel drawing :)
16:20<supermop>lego and brio certainly get some of the credit for me going into architecture
16:21<Nite>infants brio had similar rule problems as ottd - blocking and crashing someones vehicles i remember lead to agressive fights
16:21<supermop>which might not have been a good influence afterall, as architects don't make any money
16:25<Wolf01>yesterday I spotted the turntable in Milan:,9.260501&spn=0.00139,0.004128&t=h&z=19 it seem to be always full of engines and cars
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16:26<supermop>i looked at that one when drawing my larger roundhouse
16:28<Wolf01>this one is the largest junkya...trainyards I've ever seen
16:28*DanMacK hasn't played with that particular grf in awhile...
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16:29<DanMacK>Then again, none of my games have really had trains in awhile...
16:29<supermop>i think i have fixed the glitches it had
16:30*DanMacK will have to check it out
16:30<supermop>and i have drawn tons of new stuff for a version .3
16:30<supermop>i havent found time over the last 4 months to code at all
16:30<supermop>as 10 minutes of coding takes me about 2-3 hours of trying to learn what to do
16:31<supermop>i have no aptitude for computer language at all
16:32<Rubidium>just ask Tank for the right program
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16:33<supermop>actually, thats the reason i am on irc in the first place, trying to find out how to code the stuff i drew in november
16:34<Rubidium>aptitude is Debian's (and its derivatives) tool to install programs
16:34<supermop>never used irc before
16:34<Rubidium>Tank is the operator in "The Matrix" who installs programs into people
16:35<Wolf01>ahahah right :D
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen a good matrix reference in years :)
16:36<Rubidium>sorry to disappoint you
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>16 heightlevels are definitely not enough
16:39<xiong>Does anyone know any of the reasons why interval servicing can be ignored, apart from 'no service if no breakdowns'? What other reasons can there be for a vehicle to follow its orders blindly when it is overdue for service?
16:40<Rubidium>are you saying the maps are too big?
16:40*dihedral loves reading the backlog and finding out nicknames that seem to be generally ignored :-D
16:40<andythenorth>xiong: vehicles have been doing that for ages
16:41<andythenorth>I never found the cause
16:41*Eddi|zuHause wonders whether xiong is actually still ignoring me
16:41<Nite>they do it when they dont have a path to the depot
16:41<dihedral>the list of 'generally' seems to exclude andythenorth and Eddi|zuHause :-D
16:41<xiong>andythenorth, Good to know, I guess.
16:41<andythenorth>they also do it when they do have a path
16:42<andythenorth>RVs do it a lot
16:42<xiong>Nite, Um, yes. Then there's the case that a road vehicle passes right by a depot, even though it's way overdue.
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i can't even find a spot where it generated 16 heightlevels. most hills are only like 12
16:42<andythenorth>xiong: use explicit servicing orders
16:42<andythenorth>or turn off breakdowns
16:42<andythenorth>it's not a good fix, but it's a fix :P
16:42<xiong>andythenorth, That was my thought, to always include servicing, one way or another.
16:43<andythenorth>it ought to get fixed, but exploring the pathfinder is way beyond me right now
16:43<xiong>I wanted to know if others had the same issue. You say yes, so that's good, I guess.
16:43<Rubidium>automatic servicing doesn't work when the depots are too far from the main network, in amount of pathfinder penalty
16:43<Nite>i almost always service by force ore order
16:43<andythenorth>xiong: it will only be addressed if (a) it can be predictably reproduced (b) someone's interested in fixing it
16:43<xiong>Rubidium, How does that account for a road vehicle driving right past a depot?
16:43<Rubidium>when you use path signals, it will search from the end of the reserved track. Thus... if you reserved past the depot it won't be going there
16:43<Nite>autoservcing jamming systems too much or sending trains where they should not go
16:44<Rubidium>finally vehicles check for automatic servicing at an interval (something like a day or so; don't know the exact value), so it can be too far away at one point and then have reserved the path past the depot at the next evaluation
16:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: thanks for fixing cb28
16:44<xiong>Well, what about timetables, non-stop orders, and explicit depot orders? Do these affect interval servicing in any way?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>this can't be right... i have tested about every mountain i could find, and could terraform at least one level higher, often two
16:45-!-dageek [~dageek@2001:8b0:ff85:0:223:6cff:fe87:e49c] has joined #openttd
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>is there an obiwan in clamping in the terrain generator?
16:46<xiong>That is, is a vehicle more likely to skip servicing if it is proceeding non-stop; or if it is late on its timetable; or if it has an explicit depot order somewhere in its orders?
16:46<Nite>any idea when the next beta is upon us?
16:46<@planetmaker>you're welcome, andythenorth - I'm sure it'll also be my pleasure :-)
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16:46<andythenorth>I can now start on some interesting FIRS stuff
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: there just was one. how often do you think there are any?!?
16:47<andythenorth>DanMacK: you're right, no eGRVTS vehicles for alcohol :o
16:47<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: have you tried the lowest sea level?
16:47<andythenorth>maybe I screwed up the cargo classes
16:47<Rubidium>for what it's worth I have no idea about the implementation of TGP, so it's just guess work
16:47<xiong>Also, only vaguely related to the previous: Is there a reason that a timetabled vehicle will not waste any early time in a depot or at a waypoint? It will only ever waste (idle, dwell) at a station, which usually is the last (busy) place I want that.
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: seems to be the same
16:48<supermop>xiong: i build 'yards' as stations to give them somewhere to wait
16:48<andythenorth>DanMacK: NARS 2 has....generous...refits for Alcohol :P
16:48<Rubidium>when a vehicle has explicit depot orders automatic servicing won't happen
16:49<xiong>Rubidium++ # the big AHA
16:49<Wolf01>'night all
16:49<xiong>Why is this not documented anywhere??
16:49-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:49<xiong>So it's true!
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>with lowest sea level there's a funny agglomeration of fishing grounds in every tiny pond :p
16:49<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: hah
16:50<xiong>I can put a vehicle on a year-long loop around the map and if there's a goto-depot order anywhere in it, it will ignore all interval scheduling.
16:50<andythenorth>fishing grounds do try and cluster too, which makes it worse
16:50<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if you provide code....they could scale by map size :P
16:50<xiong>I thought might have been my subjective impression.
16:51<xiong>Rubidium, What about non-stop orders and being late on timetable? Do these also interfere with interval servicing?
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16:51<supermop>or you could use a station that looks like a depot.....
16:51<Nite>sry i didnt track when the 1.1.0b5 came out Eddi|zuHause
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>there don't seem to be any fishing harbours...
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>or at least very rarely
16:52<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that can happen
16:52<andythenorth>they use the 'build in town' flag
16:52-!-Fenris3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:52<andythenorth>it's proven that they won't appear on some maps
16:53<andythenorth>I might re-implement my own version of build-in-town
16:53<andythenorth>a bit less restrictive
16:53<xiong>supermop, My rail stations are built to force depoting. I tend to put road freight on timetable, since it's dropping, say, engineering supplies and needs to be predictable.
16:53<Nite>you mean auto servicing will thenb not happen at all? or just because it is serviced before autoservice? rubidium
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16:53<Nite>Nite: avoids to use timetabeling - its just confusing me
16:54<xiong>supermop, The point being that arrival intervals are critical for primary industry growth. So, I've been putting a secondary stop a few tiles before the actual drop-off truck stop and putting extra time in there, in the timetable, then hustling the truck out of the waiting-stop to the real stop. I'd rather have that waiting-stop be a depot, obviously.
16:56<xiong>Nite, I believe that what Rubidium said was that any goto-depot order at all will suppress interval servicing.
16:56<xiong>Rubidium, I'll look but I seriously doubt that I'll understand it.
16:57<andythenorth>DanMacK: we can now plan windmill for FIRS :)
16:57<xiong>I'm not a software guy; I'm an old hardware dog.
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's way better with the slightly hihger sea level
16:58<xiong>Nite, Timetabling is difficult for me, too; but I'm starting to figure it out.
16:58<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yeah
16:58<andythenorth>I'm not sure fishing industries are really compatible with minimum water
16:58<andythenorth>I wouldn't mind implemeting special case code for it, but only if someone else devises it :)
16:58<xiong>Nite, Part of it is the question of order #1. Since most orders loop around, it doesn't seem to matter which is first. I usually start my orders with the loading station and create vehicles at a depot near there; which makes sense, right?
16:59<xiong>You could just as well make order #1 the unloading station but then, newly created vehicles would want to unload first, which seems unreasonable.
17:00<xiong>But -- big but -- if you're timetabling, then (at least in my case), arrival time is critical, not departure.
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: i "generally" can't ignore people ;)
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: might just have a "disable water-based industries" parameter, along the lines of "economies"
17:01<xiong>So, create all your new timetabled vehicles at a depot very near the unloading station, and with the unloading station order being order #1. Create them all with shared orders, and send exactly one of them out of the depot on its way, with "Autofill".
17:02<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's one possibility
17:02<Nite>sry i do not get your train orders withoug seeing them xiong
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if the newgrf can detect land generation settings
17:02<xiong>That's the hard part, the part that frankly goes against my grain. Leave all the other vehicles in the depot until the first one has come back around. The very last order in the schedule is the depot itself.
17:02<xiong>Nite, I don't timetable trains; I timetable trucks. Trains are best handled with full-load orders.
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>fishing grounds seem to often come in pairs
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if that's useful
17:03<Nite>its simply overly tedious having to release the vehicles one by one in the distances you watn between them
17:03<xiong>In any case, my orders wouldn't look much different from any others. It's not the list; it's the way its managed.
17:03<Nite>so i only use the "wait for X days" sheldomly
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>but it looks fine overall
17:04<Nite>where can i look at it?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>almost every pond with a fishing ground also has a fishing harbour
17:04<xiong>Nite, That I agree. You need to keep a sharp eye on the 'clock' and figure out, mentally, how often the vehicles must go out. But you can use the 'start date' feature to speed this up.
17:04<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: they try to colocate
17:04<xiong>You still need to do quite a bit of simple arithmetic and deal, somehow, with the issue of the odd number of days per month.
17:05<andythenorth>fishing harbours try to build within 64 pixels of fishing grounds
17:05<andythenorth>and vice versa
17:05<andythenorth>with some randomness
17:05<@planetmaker>good night
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it seems appropriate in general
17:05<andythenorth>it is good on a high water map
17:05<andythenorth>however it's not optimal on low water maps
17:05<andythenorth>I've opened a ticket
17:06<andythenorth>try it on an 80% water map
17:06<supermop>xiong, i was suggesting stations as a shameless plu
17:06<andythenorth>it's a thing of beauty :)
17:06<xiong>Nite, You've seen --? I have issues with this page; I think I could do a bit better. But it's certainly much better than anything I can show you now.
17:06<xiong>supermop, 'plu'?
17:06<Nite>again, at which server can i look at it?
17:06<xiong>Nite, Sorry, I just don't understand. What server for what?
17:07<xiong>This is a complex, feature-rich game. People play it in very different ways. I never play on a server; I play locally.
17:08<xiong>And no, Nite, I wouldn't want to show you anything I have got going now, since I'm in the process of changing my thinking.
17:08<Nite>thats what i meant xiong
17:08<xiong>Also, the point is not what you see; it's how you get there. It's a process, not a state.
17:08<Nite>sure you can keep your ottd intimacy ;)
17:08<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22013 /trunk/src/ (company_func.h depot_cmd.cpp functions.h timetable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: move some functions out of functions.h
17:09<xiong>The whole issue of timetabling is sufficiently complex that there are a number of patches floating around out there to set headway automatically for a group of vehicles. I'm all for it!
17:09<supermop>i like the depature boards patch
17:09<supermop>makes it much easier for me
17:09<xiong>I'm especially incensed that when you set timetables in ticks that times are still set and shown in days -- dated days, too.
17:10<xiong>I do not like numerical dates and I don't like dates of any sort, anywhere, that don't conform to ISO format.
17:11<Nite>well what we want from timetables is clear at least - "a vehicel at a station every X days"
17:11*andythenorth does wonder
17:11<andythenorth>is newstations stalled?
17:11<supermop>use departure boards, then you only have to worry about a 24 hour clock
17:11<Nite>BUT i found teh fulload or not tactics best - so no timetable for me so far
17:11<xiong>Sorry; that came out self-contradictory. Combine the two: I don't like numerical dates except as YYYY-MM-DD.
17:11<supermop>what is that, andy?
17:12<Nite>newstatins where very fine, they are still not on bananas are they?
17:12<xiong>Nite, Usually I agree. But what about engineering supplies or farm supplies? These need to be distributed on a scheduled basis.
17:12<Rubidium>andythenorth: isn't it oldstations by now? Isn't it like mid previous decade?
17:12*andythenorth looks in his checkout :o
17:12<xiong>It's irrelevant whether one crate or 20 are delivered but the industry has to get at least one delivery per month; for safety's sake, let's say once per 20 days or even 15.
17:13<Nite>they can also be handeled with condi orders
17:13<xiong>It does no good at all to deliver twice as much the next month if you skipped this one. So, full load doesn't cut it.
17:13<Rubidium>newstations v0.44: Dec 28 2005
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>as far as i can see, the clamping in tgp.cpp:993 is never actually reached. so there must be another limit before
17:14<xiong>I have two solutions: The first is timetabled road vehicles, which I do agree, Nite, are tricky and time-consuming to set up.
17:14<Nite>i think conditional orders are perfectly fine and logical to set up
17:14<xiong>The other is to run a small train into the accepting station and *transfer* the goods out. Oddly enough, transferred goods will *not* be consumed by industry!
17:14*andythenorth does update newairports branch
17:15<andythenorth>last synced to trunk Nov 2010
17:15<andythenorth>so not very stalled, no
17:15<Rubidium>oh... that newstations
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>what does this magic 3 do? MakeClear(tile, CLEAR_GRASS, 3);
17:15<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22014 /trunk/src/ (functions.h openttd.h): -Codechange: move some more functions out of functions.h
17:16<xiong>Then, I put a tiny loop of road with two truck stops on it and set a single truck to load and unload at the same station. This can be slowed down, if it's rationing out the EngSups or FarmSups too quickly; if a backlog accumulates, a second truck can be laid on.
17:16<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: it sets the level of clear ground, ie bare ground = 0, fully grown grass = 3
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: aha.
17:16*andythenorth proposes newnamingconvention
17:16<xiong>Nite, I don't understand how conditional orders address the issue of delivering supplies to primary industries.
17:17<Nite>they will be consumed if the industry accepts them at the moment you transfer, but at station "stored" ones will not be consumed later in game
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: is there an enum for that?
17:17<@Yexo>as far as I know not
17:17<@Yexo>see clear_map.h:21
17:17<@Yexo>Ground types. Valid densities in comments after the enum.
17:18<Nite>you could also use a small truck and asecond station to feed teh industry constantly ... but its really hard to describe it all in words
17:18<Nite>examples are best
17:19<xiong>Nite, I tried the second station. It's not needed. If you transfer to the accepting station, rather than unload, the supplies stay until the loop truck delivers them, by loading and unloading. You don't even really need more than one truck stop but then the pathfinder complains about 'too few orders'.
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause>bah... you can't see the mountains in temperate :p
17:21<Nite>ic - with 2 orders it will complain about two identical orders ;)
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17:22<xiong>Now, this *is* something relatively simple and something that can be apprehended pretty clearly with a static screenshot, with or without a saved game. Would anyone like to see a page put up for 'Regular Deliveries with Transfer Orders'?
17:22<xiong>Nite, Dunno. Fiddle with it. Make one order load, one unload. Works for me.
17:22<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22015 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp economy.cpp functions.h texteff.hpp): -Codechange: move yet another pair of methods from functions.h
17:22<andythenorth>xiong: would it be easier just to patch FIRS? :P
17:22<Nite>why dont just start a server and load your savegame - so anyone intrested could be in it?
17:22<andythenorth>or do you enjoy the challenge?
17:22<xiong>andythenorth, For me? Impossible.
17:23<andythenorth>for me....less so :P
17:23<xiong>Nite, You don't want me to run an OTTD server. I have not got any knowledge of how to do so -- and my machine is a laptop, so availability would be rather unpredictable.
17:23<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22016 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Fix [FS#4479]: when paused and having the allowed actions while paused setting on "no actions" cheating money would fail
17:24<xiong>andythenorth, Anyway, what would you patch? I don't have any issues with the regular delivery requirement. I'm having some issues with interval servicing. I have two good solutions to regular delivery.
17:24<andythenorth>well as long as you're having fun ;)
17:25<Nite>4 your purpose xiong, you klick "multiplayer - start server" and set it up ...
17:25<xiong>In fact, my actual approach tends to be hybrid. I run a train full of supplies out to a station and transfer them. Then, I run a loop truck to deliver to the industry. For nearby industries, I run a timetabled truck route out, which also works off some of the surplus.
17:26<xiong>Nite, You are telling the dunce to pretend to be the professor.
17:26<Nite>i am doing what?
17:27<xiong>There are a very few things about this game that I understand well enough to tell someone else about. Certainly, I'm not going to set up Xiong's Demonstration OTTD Server'.
17:27<xiong>... especially not on a laptop.
17:27<Nite>its not harder than to setup a singelplayer game
17:27<Nite>if your connection is fine you will be fine
17:28*andythenorth ponders some way to auto-fence industry tiles
17:28<Nite>(dedicated server is littel harder because you should know console commands)
17:28<xiong>Nite, I'm not sure you understand the point; I'm sorry. I have a laptop. I suspend its operations during most of each day. I only have it up for a couple hours at a time.
17:29<xiong>And although I could, in theory, run a server, what would be on it? What would I provide to other people, that they could not get elsewhere and better?
17:29<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22017 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move MarkTileDirtyByTile to viewport_func.h
17:30<supermop>well you could play cooperatively with a few of your friends, that have similar schedules, and similar play styles
17:30<xiong>Any idiot can run a web server -- as we've seen. The challenge is to invent or gather worthwhile content to put out with it.
17:31<xiong>supermop, Um, again, to what purpose? If such people exist, I can think of better things for us to do together.
17:31<supermop>well, if that is your argument, why play games at all,
17:31<xiong>I mean, sorry, but I find the suggestion bizarre. Do you all want to come over to my house to play? I don't get it. But then, when I was a kid, I always played alone.
17:31<DanMacK>Night all
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17:33<supermop>andythenorth; what do you mean by that?
17:33<supermop>i have been trying to do something like that for my yard tiles for months
17:33<Nite>we are not invading your hous by tracking you ip findung your identity xiong, some woudl just take a look what you have built
17:33<xiong>I run several servers, of one sort or another; and for each, I try to provide something that you just can't get anywhere else. I mean, if someone else is doing better, why should I provide a crappy alternative?
17:34<andythenorth>supermop: it would use a bit mask to specify where to draw fences for a tile
17:34<xiong>Nite, I don't have too much worth showing.
17:34<supermop>that is what i was trying to do
17:34<Nite>kk it was just an idea ...
17:34<andythenorth>it can be done with nfo, but would be a bit bonkers
17:34<supermop>i ran into trouble with the number of possible sprites
17:35<Nite>since you seem to have something worth about chatting ;) xiang
17:35<supermop>seemed too hard to set up action 2 chain to handle 16 different possible states
17:35<xiong>Nite, This is, perhaps largely, a matter of orientation. If you want to know how somebody does something, I suspect, you want to join his server and observe, maybe ask questions, maybe ask him to do something while you watch.
17:36<andythenorth>supermop: exactly
17:36<xiong>But if I want to know how somebody does something, I want him to tell me where he has written up the documentation explaining it. I want words and pictures that don't change over small periods of time.
17:36<andythenorth>meanwhile rail tiles have something to auto-fence them
17:36<andythenorth>possibly it could be adapted to fence industry tiles
17:37<andythenorth>I should read that code
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>... either i edit the wrong file, or all my changes don't have any effect :(
17:37<andythenorth>but not tonight :)
17:37<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22018 /trunk/src/ (12 files): -Cleanup: remove some (now) unneeded includes of functions.h
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the rail fences are stored in the map array
17:37<xiong>I'm not chatting here to teach you how to deliver cargo to FIRS primary industries. That just came up. I wanted to ask about interval servicing and I got my answer: Don't do it; service explicitly, like the pros. That was one of my first choices.
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: on each tileloop, the fences are adjusted, if necessary
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>(same as grass growth etc.)
17:38<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22019 /trunk/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: s/functions.h/clear_func.h/
17:38<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: which bits?
17:38<xiong>If I *did* want to explain what I've learned about regular delivery, I would do so in the form of a wiki page. It would never occur to me to run a dynamic server to demonstrate.
17:38<andythenorth>nvm, the docs will tell me :)
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: m4 bits 3..0
17:39<xiong>I might attach a savegame but that's brittle: might break under the next patch; or you might not have the same NewGRFs loaded.
17:39<andythenorth>not enough industry bits free :(
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: for rail tiles
17:39<xiong>... or may want to set any one of a hundred variables differently than I have.
17:39<@Yexo>xiong: a savegame made with trunk without any newgrfs is quite safe
17:39<xiong>I understand that running a server obviates that.
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17:39<@Yexo>andythenorth: I count 3 free bits, I assume you'll need 4 for proper fences
17:40<xiong>Yexo, Yes. And I definitely don't want to do that. Especially when demonstrating how to serve a FIRS industry.
17:40<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22020 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: load of failures of WT3 to properly validate some strings...
17:40<xiong>Yexo, That reminds me. Where is penntowns?
17:40<@Yexo>ah, in that case a wiki is better indeed ;)
17:40*andythenorth wonders if industries will ever need sloped fences
17:40<@Yexo>still sitting in my inbox, sorry
17:40<@Yexo>shouldn't be much trouble to get it up, but I forgot about it
17:41<andythenorth>if using custom foundations for a tile prevented fences....then sloped fences would never be needed
17:41<xiong>Yexo, It's not an issue for me, really; I have a version running on my own machine and that's enough. But it irks me a bit not to see it -- only a small bit. Hope you see my point in mentioning it.
17:41*andythenorth does think
17:42<@Yexo>xiong: sure, I'll get it up on coop devzone / bananas as soon as possible
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>why does the name "Fred" suddenly appear in my head? :p
17:42<xiong>On another note -- and this has nothing to do with you, Yexo, don't take it that way -- I see nobody has done a thing with bigsig, even though I broke my own word and published the graphics to forum. So much for 'draw it and they will build'.
17:43<andythenorth>Yexo: did you get stuck with newairports? Or bored :)
17:43<andythenorth>or other stuff?
17:43<@Yexo>all of them ;)
17:43<andythenorth>is it pathologically stuck?
17:43<@Yexo>got stuck, I've got some ideas on how to circumvent that but that means rethinking part of the spec
17:43<@Yexo>which is not exactly fun
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17:44<andythenorth>my motive is not pure
17:44<xiong>Actually, Yexo, I think I could reasonably demo regular servicing with transfer orders, with a plain vanilla game. It just wouldn't have the same... juice.
17:44<andythenorth>stations for industries on water are a bit unsatisfactory currently
17:45<@Yexo>I know :)
17:45-!-ABCRic [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye, world...]
17:45<@Yexo>actually custom stations for ships would be a lot easier than for aircraft (assuming ships can never change their z-position)
17:45<andythenorth>ships would be fine
17:45<xiong>I wish that someone, instead of asking me to explain game mechanics I don't understand well, would ask me to draw graphics, which I do understand.
17:46<andythenorth>it's trickier if there are also helipads for the same station
17:47<andythenorth>currently it is possible to go heli-fishing in FIRS
17:47<andythenorth>heli-logging yes
17:47<andythenorth>heli-fishing: less so
17:47*TruePikachu doesn't understand revisions r21954-r21958
17:48<andythenorth>they got discussed in forum
17:48<@Yexo>useless settings which almost everyone has the same value
17:48<@Yexo>or where it didn't make sense at all to have them enabled
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17:48<andythenorth>Yexo: if ship stations could be done...I have four or so industries and would make use of them :)
17:49<andythenorth>it's silly to be delivering PAX to the fishing ground :P
17:49<andythenorth>there is no 'mafia' industry in FIRS
17:49<@Yexo>I don't want to implement the part for ships only to realize later that the spec needs to be changed for aircraft
17:49<andythenorth>I understand
17:49<@Yexo>so while ships are easier they 'depend' on aircraft
17:49<andythenorth>that's what was said the last n times I asked as well :D
17:49<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22021 /trunk/src/ (18 files in 6 dirs): -Fix (r22019): ofcourse make doesn't notice files are gone, so it doesn't recompile everything that needs to be recompiled...
17:51<TruePikachu>When is the 1.1.0 EDA?
17:52<@Yexo>some time after 1.1.0-RC1
17:52<TruePikachu>Oh, beta come before RC?
17:52*andythenorth just had a disgusting idea
17:53<andythenorth>I could patch the magic 'water industry' station tile
17:53*TruePikachu just thought you were using the term 'beta' instead of 'rc'
17:53<andythenorth>so it doesn't have acceptance if the industry is not the default oil rig
17:53<andythenorth>it's ugly
17:53<andythenorth>but the industry code has a gazillion ugly special cases already
17:54<+glx>TruePikachu: beta are special nighties
17:54<+glx>RC are done after branching
17:54<@Yexo>andythenorth: but that breaks newgrfs that expect that behavior from the magic water tile
17:55<andythenorth>special case for those newgrfs :P
17:55<andythenorth>check an action 14 property :P
17:55<andythenorth>hard code it so it still works with ECS
17:56<andythenorth>or have patience and wait :P
17:56<andythenorth>option 4 is least work
17:56<andythenorth>but hardest
17:56<TruePikachu>So you're trying to turn an oil rig into a fishing rig?
17:56<andythenorth>oh yes
17:57<TruePikachu>having trouble keeping the fishermen away, eh?
17:57*andythenorth ponders redrawing some graphics for fishing grounds
17:57<andythenorth>what are these fishing rigs you speak of?
17:57<TruePikachu>I coldn't cume up with a better word.
17:58<TruePikachu>Just imagine an oil rig, but it pumps up fish ;)
17:59<andythenorth>well maybe
18:00<andythenorth>or a 'fishing-with-explosives grounds'
18:00*andythenorth does go to bed
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18:00<xiong>Delivering chemicals to this industry may increase production.
18:01<andythenorth>good night ;)
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18:14<supermop>hadn't scrolled down all the way
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18:28<TruePikachu>Lol @ one of these 'towns'
18:29<TruePikachu>5 residents, comprises entirely of 3 road tiles and what looks like a hurch
18:29<TruePikachu>In the middle of the water on the smallest possible island
18:30<TruePikachu>"New Fludinghattan Ridge"
18:31<TruePikachu>Name is bigger that the town in full zoom-in
18:31<TruePikachu>Scary thing is that it's marked as a city...
18:41<TruePikachu>Hmmm...what's an "Unnamed Finance"?
18:47<TruePikachu>Wait, you know not-really-there bridges and tunnels?
18:48<TruePikachu>Are those to help prevent issues with other companies (w/o infrastructure sharing)?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>wtf are you talking about?!?
18:49<TruePikachu>Bridges and tunnels do not actually exist
18:49<TruePikachu>(according to some guys here/on the forums)
18:50<TruePikachu>I'm wondering if the fact that they don't exist is intentional so as to not create problems with other companies
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>it is intentional, but has nothing to do with companies. how do you get that idea?
18:50<TruePikachu>Theoretically, if it existed, nobody else could pass under the bridge
18:50<TruePikachu>Land wnership
18:51*TruePikachu is having an off day with tping
18:51<TruePikachu>^^ see?
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18:51<TruePikachu>And when I say "pass under", I mean "even build rails or such under"
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, that's not it
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>when the bridges were "there", you could only build straight rails or roads under them, and no signals or crossings or such
18:53<@Yexo>TruePikachu: some tiles can have up to 3 different owners, so that's definitely not the problem
18:53<TruePikachu>Yexo: you are a psychic
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18:54*TruePikachu literally just figured out that one piece of land can have 3 owners
18:55<TruePikachu>'figured' as in mathematically, not experimentially
18:55<TruePikachu>But it only works in 2 unique tiles (or 1 tile if you count rotations)
18:56*TruePikachu presses Alt-F7 - bbl
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19:23<Nite>so can we hace a track with a bridge above and a tunnel underneath without problem i guess ...
19:23<Nite>hace, ave = h a v e
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21:47<CaNsA>hey guys, anyone using Pikka's Av8 aircraft set?
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22:06<Nite>have used that ... some time ago
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 08 00:00:50 2011