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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-02-15

---Logopened Tue Feb 15 00:00:05 2011
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01:18<Eddi|zuHause>aww... i have a feeling i just "fed the troll"
01:18<Eddi|zuHause>... and it's not even friday
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02:03<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:17<@planetmaker>good morning
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02:35<andy-zzz>guys, how can I override the 48 square from the edge oil rig setting?
02:35<andy-zzz>and whats the logic behind it anyway?
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02:36<@Terkhen>andy-zzz: the logic is that in TTD, the "sea" was always at the border, but that's not the case anymore
02:37<@Terkhen>to override it you can use OpenGFX+ Industries
02:37<V453000>or stations name by nearest industry newGRF :p
02:37<@Terkhen>oh, that would be a good adition to OpenGFX
02:38<@planetmaker>yeah, too
02:38<@planetmaker>and manindustries as well
02:38<andy-zzz>how do i go about it? can i change it from within a current game or will i have to restart?
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02:38<@planetmaker>any change you make on the current game won't affect the existing industries iirc - and has the potential to muck up even more
02:39<@Terkhen>IIRC you can build them anywhere in the scenario editor
02:39<@planetmaker>that might be an elegant solution :-)
02:39<@Terkhen>if that's the case you could load your game in the SE, place the refinery and move it back to a normal game
02:39<andy-zzz>some hack
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02:39<@Terkhen>yes :)
02:40<@Terkhen>but less hackier than changing NewGRFs ingame :P
02:40<@planetmaker>not really a hack. Rather a work-around
02:40<andy-zzz>or cheat
02:40<V453000>define cheat :)
02:40<V453000>you play openttd against yourself, how can you cheat that :p
02:41<@planetmaker>Terkhen: possibly we should add the developer tools to the cheats
02:41<@planetmaker>then most people who use that won
02:41<@planetmaker>*won't because they don't like to cheat
02:41<@Terkhen>that's a good solution yes :)
02:42<@Terkhen>and there is probably some cases in which you can change NewGRFs to "cheat"
02:42<@planetmaker>like manual industries :-)
02:43<@planetmaker>or a basecost grf
02:43<@Terkhen>but IMO we should keep the developer tools as a setting and just add a cheat flag for "newgrfs changed in this game"
02:44<andy-zzz>both 'load scenario and load heightmap' from inside Scenario Editor filter out the .sav files
02:45<@planetmaker>andy-zzz: yes. But just rename it to scn instead of sav
02:45<@planetmaker>(the current behaviour is stupid, yes)
02:47<andy-zzz>me or the editor?
02:47<andy-zzz>aye thats worked
02:48<@planetmaker>the way scn / sav destinction is handled by OpenTTD
02:48<@planetmaker>it does - IMHO - make no sense to distinguish it or use different file endings
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02:49<@planetmaker>it's the save file format with no difference
02:49<TGYoshi>hai ^^
02:49<andy-zzz>yeah i know but what about the 48 max square from the edge bug (or legacy code), surely an easy one to fix so why not?
02:50<andy-zzz>not a coder but surely if the 48 is already declared it is just a matter of change that?
02:51<@planetmaker>it is. But it might break newgrfs which rely on that. And newgrfs can change that. So it's not really a problem
02:51<dihedral>good morning
02:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm... kate doesn't respond well to files with _really_ long lines
02:52<@Terkhen>good morning dihedral
02:52<dihedral>uh ... a -zzz tag? :-P
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02:52<@planetmaker>as Terkhen said: just use a newgrf which disables that limit. OpenGFX+ Industries does that for instance
03:02<andy-zzz>is Industries in the 'check online content' bit?
03:05<@planetmaker>not yet on bananas :-
03:13<andy-zzz>ok, thanks all
03:13<V453000>is it on purpose that lumber mills are treated as "secondaries" in the industry funding?
03:13<V453000>and why?
03:14<V453000>it is impossible to make them disabled :(
03:17<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: founding lumbermills is an integral part of the original game
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03:18<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: there is no other way to create them, they don't appear automatically
03:18<V453000>I would have liked to prospect them :)
03:18<Eddi|zuHause>well... make a newgrf
03:19<Eddi|zuHause>there is a "make lumber mill available in all climates" grf that you can probably use as basis
03:19<V453000>I would rather want to make it unavailable in tropic :)
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03:21<@planetmaker>newgrf? ;-)
03:23<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: "make available" and "make unavailable" is really the same thing, just a bit flipped :p
03:24<Eddi|zuHause>ah, mysqldump has the ability to create tab-delimited lists, great ;)
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03:59<TGYoshi>The waiting goods reduce in amount somehow x]
04:07<TGYoshi>Found a spelling mistake in the Dutch translation ^^
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04:14<Eddi|zuHause>TGYoshi: they do that if your rating drops below 50%
04:14<Eddi|zuHause>and the spelling won't be fixed by telepathy...
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04:16<TGYoshi>What ratings? o.o
04:17<TGYoshi>Does my company suck that much? :P
04:19<Eddi|zuHause>click on the station
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04:55<@planetmaker> <-- I must be doing something terribly wrong. Why does the e-mail link not show on that page?
04:56<@planetmaker>it should be covering "sending an e-mail to me" - and the source code also shows that...
04:56<blathijs>planetmaker: You forgot the "a"
04:56<blathijs><a href="">
04:57<@planetmaker>oh, right :-) thanks
04:57<@planetmaker>blind fish, me
04:59<@Terkhen>why is entry05 zoomed out?
05:00<@planetmaker>the contestant chose to submit it that way
05:00<@planetmaker>The zoom status is honoured :-)
05:00<@Terkhen>ok :)
05:02<@planetmaker>I even asked him to consider changing it - but he never got back to me
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05:03<@planetmaker>note that also entry16 is zoomed out to the medium level
05:03<@planetmaker>there I know for sure that it's by design
05:05<@Terkhen>are they sorted in any specific way?
05:06<@planetmaker>file system order
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>didn't we have a "score" system for round 1 last time?
05:07<@planetmaker>I'm not sure. Did we? I'm happy with that, too.
05:07<@planetmaker>Like 1,2,3?
05:07<@planetmaker>Convince me now and I change it :-)
05:07<@planetmaker>so like "rank your top three games"
05:07<@planetmaker>worth 3, 2 and 1 point
05:11<@Terkhen>I was pondering spamming votes for entry07, but after seeing how it looks with original graphics I don't want to carry this over my conscience
05:11<Eddi|zuHause>a toyland title screen... scaaaary!
05:12<@planetmaker>hm, I could take that out as it's against the rules. But it won't win anyway, I guess :-)
05:12<@Terkhen>I was thinking eye bleeding
05:12<@Terkhen>but scary fits too :)
05:13<@Terkhen>planetmaker: the mail link in your forum post is wrong
05:14<@planetmaker>the e-mail link does not seem to work in the URL thingy there
05:14<@Terkhen>yes :)
05:15<@planetmaker>well. Shall I say "rank entries, worth three, two and one point respectively"?
05:15<@Terkhen>sounds fine to me
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05:16<Eddi|zuHause>entry 17 is intriguing ;)
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>so much different than the others ;)
05:17<@Terkhen>yes... but I find it a bit too empty
05:19<@planetmaker>voting page updated accordingly
05:20<@Terkhen>who plays on 2560x1600?
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>entry 25 has an interesting station, but the rest seems kinda boring on higher resolutions
05:21<@planetmaker>Terkhen, Rb :-P
05:21<@planetmaker>I could play here, though, on 2560 x 1024
05:22<@planetmaker>there are many entries where I think they're nice in one aspect - but which fail quite a bit in others - like looking nice on many resolutions
05:22<@planetmaker>granted, I'd not give the look on 2560x1600 the biggest impact on my vote
05:22<@Terkhen>even with HDMI on my TV IIRC I cannot reach more than 1920x1200 :P
05:23<@planetmaker>double & tripple monitor setups ;-)
05:23<@Terkhen>heh :)
05:27<zydeco>I play on almost 2560x1440 sometimes
05:29<@planetmaker>I play mostly in something about 800x600 ;-)
05:29<@planetmaker>windowed, leaving space for IRC and stuff
05:30<zydeco>yes, I normally do that too
05:31<@Terkhen>planetmaker: is this the "final voting round"? IIRC there was second round after this one
05:32<@planetmaker>this is not final
05:33<@planetmaker>this is the first? Am I so ambiguous about that?
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>am i crazy for abusing the spam-filter for weeding out the bad images? :p
05:33<@planetmaker>there'll be two rounds. First now to create a shortlist, 2nd to pick the winner from the shortlist
05:33<@Terkhen>you might want to edit the "body" on your mailto link then
05:33<@planetmaker>uhm... ok
05:34<@planetmaker>I thought I explained the purpose of that e-mail on the page it is linked ;-)
05:34<@Terkhen>planetmaker: yes, but that part of the mail confused me :)
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05:41<Eddi|zuHause>entry 24 has the problem that the station is exactly behind the main window on 1680x1050
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>on 800x600 i could almost fall in love with it ;)
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>entry 25 has the exact opposite problem
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>i'm down to 8 candidates
05:45<Rubidium>wow... 34 candidates?
05:45<Rubidium>that's up 70% from last time ;)
05:49<Rubidium>planetmaker: don't forget's frontpage
05:51<@SmatZ>dihedral: can you test if connecting to admin console crashes recent nighties?
05:53<dihedral>give me a sec
05:54<dihedral>but you can test it too if you wish :-)
05:55<dihedral>you need to download the 'bundle' build
05:55<dihedral>^ SmatZ
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05:55<dihedral>that creates a remote console via the admin network
05:56<@SmatZ>dihedral: I would do that myself, but I don't have java installed :)
05:56<dihedral>pffft :-P
05:57<dihedral>i confirm what you said
05:57<dihedral>Assertion failed at line 127 of /home/nathanael/Development/openttd/src/network/../core/pool_func.hpp: this->checked != 0
05:57<@SmatZ>ok thanks :)
05:57<dihedral>thumbs up for noticing that before the rc1 release :-)
05:57<dihedral>sadly not before branching
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06:09<dihedral>most title game entries are based on a single company - that is quite sad
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... since the title game disables cost animation, can it also disable the income sound?
06:10<@peter1138>and the ding ding sound? :p
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>different issue :p
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>entry 2 spams some messages about missing AIs... will they be fixed for the final title save?
06:14<dihedral>crashes would also be annoying :-P
06:14<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, that can be fixed...
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>entry 11 kinda gives a bad example about landing jet planes on small airports
06:16<dihedral>oversized train stations ...
06:17<@planetmaker>he... from the e-mail header's name I didn't quite recognize yours initially, Terkhen :-)
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: those fell out of the consideration quite fast :p
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06:25<dihedral>odd - i only have one save to vote for :-(
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... now i'm down to 4
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>but i can't decide between 20 or 21
06:26<dihedral>and sadly the one i do have looks odd in small resolutions
06:27<dihedral>they both only have one company on the go
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>20 has a minor flaw
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>in the top left there's a rail line
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>but it takes a really long time until a train comes
06:31<zydeco>oops, a bug
06:31<@planetmaker>Rubidium, you mean I should add a news message? Ok, I'll tend to that... in a few hours
06:34<@planetmaker>and thanks for reminding me :-)
06:35<@planetmaker>btw, the "top performer" of the current competition contributed a whopping 6 savegames
06:35<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, might have recognized those :-)
06:35<@planetmaker>not recognized. But identified
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>nah, i didn't really paid attention ;)
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>err... "pay" or "hadn't"
06:37<@planetmaker><dihedral> oversized train stations ...
06:37<@planetmaker><Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: those fell out of the consideration quite fast :p
06:37<@planetmaker>I meant that ;-)
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah ;)
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>some of the entries looked very alike
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06:57<DanMacK>Hey all
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07:00<@SmatZ>hello DanMacK
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07:11<CIA-11>OpenTTD: smatz * r22085 /trunk/src/network/network_admin.cpp: -Fix: assert when connecting to the admin port
07:18<@planetmaker>hi DanMacK
07:23<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, is the list also your order of preference?
07:23<@planetmaker>(now that you suggested to rank savegames, you don't do it yourself ;-) )
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: hm, maybe i didn't refresh the page...
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but yeah, i think the order is right
07:32<@planetmaker>ok :-)
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07:45<dihedral> <- can someone tell me how this actually fixed the issue? i only see 2 additional asserts and fail to see the fix :-(
07:45<dihedral>or does assert_compile() do something special?
07:46<@planetmaker>it fails on compilation, not run-time
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07:47<@planetmaker>like type checking
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07:47<@peter1138>dihedral, doesn't make sense to me
07:48<@peter1138>dihedral, i could see it moving a crash/assert from somewhere else to here, but not actually fix anything
07:48<dihedral>oddly enough - it does seem fixed :-P
07:48<dihedral>which is what i am surprised about and do not understand why
07:50<@SmatZ>dihedral: assert() as sideeffect calls CanAllocateItem()
07:50<@SmatZ>which is needed to prevent the other assert
07:51<@SmatZ>CanAllocateItem() affects Pool::checked
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07:51<@SmatZ>GetNew() checks Pool::checked ... only with asserts enabled
07:51<dihedral>lol :-)
07:52<dihedral>thank you SmatZ
07:53<@peter1138>sounds like it's hiding a faulty condition elsewhere to me
07:54<@SmatZ>peter1138: the check in GetNew() is used to verify we called CanAllocateItem() before trying to allocate an item... but in this case, _network_clients_connected is checked instead
07:54<@SmatZ>so it shouldn't fail
07:54<@SmatZ>but yes, if that assert() fails, then _network_clients_connected is counting wrongly
07:55<dihedral>does _network_clients_connected include admin connectsions? i thought it only counted clients
07:55<@SmatZ>nope, it uses different pool as well
07:55<@SmatZ>but the logic is the same
07:56<@SmatZ>_network_admins... ServerAdminPool (or something like that)
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07:57<dihedral>why not add the 'canAllocateItem' to the value of 'accept'?
07:58<@SmatZ>dihedral: in fact, I was thinking about getting rid of _network_clients_connected and using ServerNetworkGameSocketHandler::GetNumItems() instead
07:58<@SmatZ>similiar for *admin*
07:58<@SmatZ>but I haven't investigated that idea further
07:58*DanMacK missed the toyland entry for the title game thread
07:58<@SmatZ>maybe because _network_clients_connected counts the non-dedicated server as well, or something like that
07:58<@SmatZ>(just guessing)
08:00<dihedral>which is a simple -1 if _network_dedicated
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08:02<dihedral>SmatZ, would your fix not fail if asserts are not enabled?
08:03<dihedral>i.e. for a stable release?
08:03<@peter1138>no, cos it wouldn't assert in the first place
08:03<@peter1138>(i assume that's the problem)
08:04<@peter1138>hence my statement about hiding a faulty condition elsewhere
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08:05<dihedral>that's odd....
08:05<dihedral>i mean, of course it would not assert elsewhere if asserts were disabled
08:05<dihedral>but what _would_ happen?
08:06<@SmatZ>not calling CanAllocateItem() isn't "faulty"
08:06<@SmatZ>but in some cases, when the pool is full, it would error()
08:06<@SmatZ>there are cases when we know CanAllocateItem() is not needed
08:06<@SmatZ>but it has to be called in order to make GetNew() happy
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08:15<CIA-11>OpenTTD: smatz * r22086 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: do not check if we can allocate an item if we won't try to do so anyway
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08:27<CIA-11>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22087 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: When deleting towns, only relocate objects during DC_EXEC.
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08:41<xiong>I'm trying to get a machine shop started before it goes bust. And I've been busy.... So meanwhile, my steel mill is only just really getting started and has never shipped. So, I put a token 2-car train on it, to the machine shop, just to get the ball rolling. The train sat there trying to load for 2 months, then finally took away its measly 44 tons. Immediately, I see a > 300-ton backlog on the steel mill!
08:43<V453000>what is unusual? :)
08:43<xiong>Oh, and I forgot to mention that one of the the things that delayed setting up the machine shop station was the tinkering I did to synchronize delivery of all 3 inputs to the steel mill.
08:43<xiong>V453000, Eh? Not exactly unusual, maybe; just ornery.
08:44<V453000>what is the problem :)
08:44<xiong>Well, shortage of coal, for one. That's another thing I was fixing when I started to panic over the machine shop.
08:45<xiong>See, the machine shop is just two counties away from the forge, which had the initial responsibility, of course, for primary industry supply. I so want to be able to slip the machine shop into that role.
08:45<xiong>If it goes bust while that pilot train is making its way across the map, I'll plotz.
08:47<xiong>The coal mine was way over on the wrong side of the map *and* next to a lime kiln, so I have mental issues shipping that coal to the steel mill. I prospected a second coal mine and it was created much further away still. Nothing like a challenge.
08:48<xiong>I *will* get coal to the mill, metal to the shop. We have the technology.
08:48<V453000>I cant say I understand the problem, but it probably isnt important
08:49<xiong>No, not important. Don't know how I've been unclear. Certainly not a bug in the software. Maybe a short between the earphones: mine.
08:49<V453000>if I understand correctly, you connected a lime kiln and steel mill, while you had only one coal mine
08:50<V453000>that is your problem that you have not enough mines :) that is why there are the supplies to make you able to control which industry grows - here you need the coal mine to grow, so you supply it and after it grew enough you connect another coal accepting industry :)
08:50<xiong>Oh no; I just wasn't shipping coal to the mill. A token load but that's all. But it is getting plenty of iron ore and scrap, so I'd like to think it would produce more consistently. Oh well.
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08:51<xiong>"Consistently" is a big and fuzzy concept. Naturally, I don't want to litter my layout with tiny trains. But it might take two months just to load a long train, even at a good producer. There are tradeoffs....
08:52<V453000>so you are having problems with waves of production at steel mill
08:52<xiong>Ramping up transport to match production is not straightforward. Ideally, you start with many short trains and go to many long trains.
08:52<V453000>solution a: provide more intensive service, solution b: provide a flexible train count to the metal pickup
08:53<xiong>But there is no way to auto-lengthen a train. I find lengthening to be quite tedious when I have, say, 16 trains picking up at X.
08:53<V453000>intensive service as in more delivery trains, so you can be sure all 3 cargoes arrive each month
08:54<xiong>V453000, That's why I have the syncho section. I have 4 trains and 3 trucks shuttling cargo back and forth. If there were any coal delivered to speak of, I'm sure it would work better.
08:55<xiong>Someone, by now, has probably suggested autoreplace other than 1-for-1.
08:55<xiong>I don't know what that would look like; the current autoreplace dialog already is a bit clumsy, although essential.
08:56<V453000>wait, are you having problems with waves on steel mill production, autoreplace of trains, or coal mines, lime kilns or what? :D
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08:59<xiong>V453000, I'm not much of a linear thinker. All of the above.
08:59<xiong>A cascade of issues; I examine it for weak links.
09:00<V453000>guess I cannot help you then
09:01<xiong>Well, I don't know what *could* be done. I mean, everything can be done, in time. This was not an ongoing issue, merely a bubble -- I wanted metal and I wanted it right then. If I'd thought ahead, I might have shipped metal to a random station, nearby the machine shop, long ago. The station is already there, I can transfer the metal and store it until I'm ready to accept it.
09:02<xiong>The only issue there is that then, forever, that temp warehouse will complain that it's not getting good metal service.
09:03<xiong>The basic issue is that, even with all the cash I could possibly spend, it takes me long enough to build the network that an industry may close before I get to it -- an industry I want. That's a challenge, not a problem.
09:05<xiong>I only mentioned any of this because I thought it was funny to stand there peeing my pants, waiting for that one token train to load, thinking I should have only put 1 car on instead of 2; and then I saw the 300t pile up right after. People tell me I don't have a sense of humor.
09:07<xiong>Ha. The backlog just broke 1000t. I'll just have to buy some trains, eh?
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09:08<V453000>maybe :)
09:13<xiong>Well, not tonight. Time for beddy with Teddy.
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09:21<andythenorth>anybody want to write a GUI in squirrel?
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09:21<andythenorth>and exponentially increase the bad kind of complexity
09:21<andythenorth>meanwhile also creating nice turf war about APIs between 'devs' and 'GUI devs'
09:21<andythenorth>a whole new kind of whining to enjoy :|
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09:25<@planetmaker>hello andythenorth
09:25<andythenorth>hello :D
09:25<@planetmaker>and hello Belugas
09:26<@planetmaker><planetmaker> <-- a display gui instead of transparency gui? @ andythenorth :-)
09:27<Ammler>shouldn't that be left aligned?
09:28<@planetmaker>I'd align the text to the buttons
09:28<@planetmaker>but it's just an idea... but maybe it's also not needed at all.
09:28<@planetmaker>I just wonder about those stray display options as seen in the menu on the left
09:28<@planetmaker>That's... a peculiar place for settings
09:29<@planetmaker>so I wonder whether they should - aside from going to the adv. settings - also go into a transparency or reworked display gui
09:29<@planetmaker>but it'd be one place less to look for.
09:30<@planetmaker>And being able to change animation and details settings from the main menu is very helpful when joining servers with heavy savegames
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09:33<@Belugas>hello planetmaker :)
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10:09<@peter1138>hurr, 65535 known players on my minecraft server
10:10<andythenorth>@calc 16*16
10:10<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 256
10:10<andythenorth>@calc 256*256
10:10<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 65536
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10:15<TGYoshi>@calc 16^8
10:15<@DorpsGek>TGYoshi: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
10:15<DanMacK>@calc 16/8
10:15<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: 2
10:15<@peter1138>and only 10% of them are banned...
10:15<TGYoshi>@calc 16pow(8)
10:15<@DorpsGek>TGYoshi: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
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10:29<@Belugas>a toy is always as good as the instructions that come with it :)
10:29<@planetmaker>only? :-(
10:30<@planetmaker>I think I found those toys most fun as kid which came without much instructions ;-)
10:30<@planetmaker>like lego :-)
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>what? there were plenty of instructions with lego
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>but maybe i was way older than the average "wessi" when i got my first lego
10:31<@planetmaker>there were some... but they don't make lego a better thing :-)
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>of course we had our own plastic bricks, but they also came with instructions (or suggestions) how to assemble them
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>and in the child care, they also explained how to use wooden bricks to build a wall
10:33<@Belugas>well.. as we are growing, some toys are getting more complexes... our friend @calc is on example :)
10:33<@Belugas>plus, with lego, have you seen the pile of pages they ship with new boxes?
10:33<@planetmaker>I guess I haven't bought lego in a long time
10:33<@Belugas>so the more the instructions, the easier we can tame them!
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>... i always grumbled at the maple bot, because the help() command only ever replied the heading of the help page
10:35<@Belugas>#between two pieces of
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>which is about as useless as an obscure error message as the above
10:35<@Belugas>#And she put me to bed
10:35<@Belugas>#between two pieces of
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10:36<@Belugas>Roger Waters, Pros And Cons Of Hitch-hiking, Sexual Revolution
10:37<@Belugas>obscur and tormented guy ;)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>i think he's finally going mad.
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10:41<@Belugas>some good music he made, even if a bit repetitive. trademark, i'd say
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11:53<@Belugas>grmuble grumble grumble
11:53<@Belugas>time to go feed my frankeinstein
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12:02<Eddi|zuHause>who is Frank Einstein?
12:03<TGYoshi>Why is the monorail still locked in my game?
12:03<TGYoshi>Or why is it locked
12:03<TGYoshi>Want to use it x]
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>TGYoshi: if you don't use NewGRFs, monorail becomes available shortly after 2000. if you use NewGRFs, they usually have no monorail at all
12:05<TGYoshi>the selection is grayed out at the moment, still not at 2000 yet though
12:05<TGYoshi>Will try that first, ty ^^
12:06<TGYoshi>Can I convert my rails fast to electric too?
12:07<TGYoshi>Cool, how? :P
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>on the right of the rail toolbar is the convert button
12:09<andythenorth>go find your old childhood toy
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12:09<TGYoshi>omg cool :P
12:09<TGYoshi>thanks eddi, works great
12:10<@planetmaker>hehe, yeah, andythenorth :-)
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12:12<@planetmaker>andythenorth: our 'villa' is not there ;-) - but on a 20 year old lego house I'd not expect that :-P
12:12<@planetmaker>hello daxcimix
12:12<daxcimix>hi planetmaker :D
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12:14<daxcimix>guys some times ago i read a thread in openttd's forum, about a patch to make in ottd a kind of timeline... will it implemented? (sorry for my english!!)
12:14<andythenorth>planetmaker: everything is there :)
12:15<andythenorth>not always affordable :P
12:15<@planetmaker>what do you mean with 'timeline'?
12:15<daxcimix>set order with time (hh:mm) and not with days/ticket
12:16<daxcimix>the possibility to set a departure time
12:16<@planetmaker>and... 'will it be implemented' depends on either developer interest or someone who writes a really proper patch for that.
12:16<@planetmaker>ah. Somehow the author abandoned that. Sadly
12:16<@planetmaker>at lease I've not seen an update there. So ...
12:16<daxcimix>yeah, thank you mate!!!
12:16<@planetmaker>not in 1.1 then :-)
12:17<daxcimix>ahahahahahahah ok :D atm i'm running 22070
12:18<daxcimix>but i can't understand is the trunk version a kind of beta?
12:18<@planetmaker>trunk is alpha
12:19<@planetmaker>but indeed our betas are somewhat re-labeled trunk versions
12:21<daxcimix>ahhh ok :D but the trunk version include same features of the stable and some novelty?
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12:26<@planetmaker>about yes
12:26<daxcimix>thank you Terkhen :D
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12:45*Sacro doesn't understand german signalling D:
12:46*ZirconiumX doesn't need to understand it
12:46<Sacro>that one was green and 3 yellows :\
12:47<Sacro>oh, that means 40kph limit
12:47<supermop_>are you driving a train lost in germany?
12:47<Sacro>class 380
12:48<supermop_>Such would make a good formulaic buddy comedy
12:50<supermop_>couple of guys have a wild and crazy night (bachelor party, graduation, whatever), cut to them confused and driving a train in Germany, no idea how they got there, one of them is trying to get on irc to find out what German signaling means.
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: the main problem is that there are like 5 completely different signalling systems
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12:51<ZirconiumX>@supermop_,with everyone at the other side of the computer banging their heads on a concrete block
12:53<supermop_>I smell a screenplay
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: likely the green/yellow told you "proceed with speed limit 40km/h" and the other two yellow told you "next signal is red"
12:54*ZirconiumX looks at link and gets confused, because he doesn't know German
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: click the five links at the bottom. they have pictures ;)
12:56<ZirconiumX>Hp 1 - Fahrt
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12:56<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: it gets worse if you have one of these: they have blinking lights and stuff :p
12:56<ZirconiumX>this is not a good thing in english
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: there is that anecdote about The Queen visiting denmark
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12:57<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: they had to cover the elevator sign that said "i fart"
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>[meaning: "in motion"]
12:58<supermop_>i feel like Elizabeth wouldn't be too offendended
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: i don't really know whether it's actually true
12:59<Prof_Frink>That's what they were worried about. She'd take it as an invitation.
12:59*ZirconiumX wonders why all drivers appear to be female...
13:00<ZirconiumX>...She can see...
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: my guess is you used a stupid translator
13:00<ZirconiumX>Oh god here we go again
13:00<supermop_>revised screenplay: Queen Elizabeth II winds up driving the train and going on IRC to read about german signalling
13:01<ZirconiumX>Google Translate
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: why would a giant cruise ship care about signalling?
13:01<supermop_>II not 2
13:01<supermop_>and, its an ocean liner, not a cruise ship
13:01<Prof_Frink>Queen Elizabeth 2: Queen Harder.
13:02<daxcimix>have to go!!!
13:02<daxcimix>bye bye!
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: really, it completely twists around the meaning of the sentence
13:02<supermop_>Queen Elizabeth I driving an ICE trying to learn about german signaling would also work
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: "She" should be "They", meaning "the signals"
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>and "see" should be "show"
13:03<ZirconiumX>Eddi|zuHause: Babelfish is somewhat better
13:04<ZirconiumX>...They indicate to it...
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is more closely what it means
13:04<ZirconiumX>Now drivers are objects not people
13:04<ZirconiumX>...Hauptsignale are probably...
13:05<ZirconiumX>BLF has no idea what Hauptsignale means
13:05<supermop_>i have an idea
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>well, read both texts and maybe you get an idea ;)
13:05<ZirconiumX>Main signals
13:05<ZirconiumX>I'll do so later - I gtg
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13:06<@Belugas>from miles and miles and miles and miles
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13:53<V453000>im sorry but what exactly do I need to type in the console to change autoclean_protected? :O I typed rcon <the password> set "autoclean_protected = 0" and it does nothing :|
13:53<V453000>or ... does not work :)
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13:56<V453000>anyone please?
13:57<@Terkhen>shouldn't it be rcon <password> "set ... "?
13:59<V453000>I thought so
14:00<V453000>or ... tried both
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14:05<@SmatZ>V453000: rcon "set autoclean_protected 0"
14:05<@SmatZ>apostrophes are important
14:06<V453000>ah, thx, that is about the last possibility that I did not try :D
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14:07<Prof_Frink>I see no apostrophes.
14:07<@SmatZ>I see no Prof_Frink
14:08<DJNekkid>are there any known document that could tell me what color in the palette that translates to what colors from the CC's?
14:08<DJNekkid>i mean, there are 8 shades of cc-color
14:09<DJNekkid>but on some colors arent it too easy to 'guess' what it might translate to if set to, say, yellow or orange
14:09-!-He||isH [~hellish@] has joined #openttd
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14:15<He||isH>hello, how to run a scenario on a dedicated server?
14:17<DJNekkid>openttd -D -g path_to/scenario ?
14:18<V453000>just load the scenario offline and save tha game :) then load the .sav
14:18<DJNekkid>that is also an option
14:18<DJNekkid>atleast that works with the -g path_to/save.sav
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14:32<He||isH>not working
14:35<Ammler>He||isH: "not working" is no proper error description
14:36<andythenorth>it's not RTS or a business simulator
14:36<andythenorth>it's a MUD!
14:36<__ln__>all work and no play makes jack a dull boy
14:36<He||isH> and runs random map
14:36*andythenorth goes north
14:37<andythenorth>when is 1.1 going golden?
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14:37<andythenorth>my FIRS download counts are underwhelming :P
14:37<andythenorth>(1.1.x needed)
14:37<@planetmaker>You'll have to have a few weeks patience for the stable
14:37<andythenorth>what is this concept?
14:37<andythenorth>is it a european thing?
14:38<@planetmaker>Something I heart somewhere... no detailed idea, though
14:38<@planetmaker>people seem to praise it, though
14:42<dihedral>patience is a virtue
14:42<dihedral>virtue was never really one of my vitues though
14:44<He||isH>Ammler, sorry, even a random map will not start. may be a console command?
14:45<Ammler>He||isH: does it generate a random map then?
14:45<He||isH>same wiht save game
14:45<Ammler>does "openttd -D" work?
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14:52<He||isH>Ammler, I have Gentoo and compile OpenTTD with the flag dedicated. i run openttd dedicated server by a script /etc/init.d/openttd start
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14:52<dihedral>possibly as root too? :-P
14:53<dihedral>Ammler, are you sure the -g flag accepts a path and not just a scn/sav name?
14:53<dihedral>i would expect the same behaviour as with the -c flag
14:53<Ammler>dihedral: path is fine
14:55<Ammler>He||isH: gentoo has a init script for openttd?
14:55<Ammler>how ugly is that :-)
14:55<dihedral>running it as root - i think that is more ugly
14:56<Ammler>well, maybe the init script does make a kind of sudo :-)
14:56<dihedral>then he cannot access .openttd in /root - at least i would be surprised if it could
14:57<Ammler>He||isH: just switch to a "normal" user and run openttd -D
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14:59<Ammler>well, there are a lot gentoo guys here, they should know the init script, SmatZ :-P
14:59<dihedral>i hope this is not a "gentoo guy" type of thing to do - running openttd as root :-P
14:59<dihedral>i would actually expect more from gentoo "users"
15:00<Ammler>many init script switch user
15:00<@planetmaker>[20:53] <dihedral> Ammler, are you sure the -g flag accepts a path and not just a scn/sav name? <-- I know it accepts a path for .sav files
15:02<dihedral>Ammler, then he should check the permissions on the scn he probably put there himself
15:02<Ammler>I used init script also to start "user deamons" until I found @reboot for crontab
15:03<dihedral>[2011-02-15 21:03:23] dbg: [net] Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started!
15:03<dihedral>that's what i get
15:04<Ammler>when you do what?
15:04<@Alberth>hello zydeco
15:05<dihedral>-g test
15:05<dihedral>(no save not svn, not even a file)
15:05<dihedral>[2011-02-15 21:05:10] dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting
15:05<dihedral>[2011-02-15 21:05:10] dbg: [net] Dedicated server could not be started, aborting
15:05<dihedral>follwes the map generation and openttd quits
15:06<Ammler>yes, that might be worth a bugrepot
15:06<He||isH>done, scenario is run
15:07<He||isH>10x ]:)
15:07<Ammler>He||isH: what was your fix?
15:07<He||isH>use flag zlib on and recompile
15:08<Ammler>you were able to compile openttd without zlib?
15:08<dihedral>He||isH, i really would suggest you do not run openttd as root (just in case you do)
15:08<Ammler>I would have expected a error exit with it
15:08<dihedral>[2011-02-15 22:30:42] dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
15:08<dihedral>Internal error: Loader for 'zlib' is not available.
15:08<dihedral>[2011-02-15 22:30:42] dbg: [net] Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started!
15:09<dihedral>^ it did tell us
15:09*dihedral grr's at #
15:09<He||isH>dihedral, 10x, i know how to use linux ];)
15:10<He||isH>Ammler, íó
15:10<He||isH>Ammler, yes
15:10<Ammler>hmm, it does allow to build without zlib but not without lzma
15:10<dihedral>He||isH, that's what many people say :-D
15:11<dihedral><- including me actually :-D hehe
15:12<Ammler>He||isH: maybe the gentoo script is a bit silly, then you should report that to the maintainer there
15:12<Mazur>planetmaker, would you like me to put up a new comment, with your patch, in my flyspray entry?
15:14<@planetmaker>if you like, sure
15:16<Ammler>well, not maybe, without zlib is wrong
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15:20<@Alberth>Mazur: dividing a number by 2 is too complicated?
15:23<@planetmaker>quite :-P
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16:33<Zuu>Hmm, so we have to wait 2 weeks for the title game poll result.
16:34<Zuu>Good work with the title game poll planetmaker
16:34<@planetmaker>well, I want to give people some time to vote...
16:35<@planetmaker>which actually reminds me... title page :-)
16:36<Zuu>Also I noticed that the final date is not in your forum post - only on the title game-website.
16:36<Zuu>A note on the website would possible do quite a bit to the number of poll casts.
16:38<@planetmaker>good point with the closing date
16:38<Zuu>Maybe a voteing template for usage in emails would help your work. Though just having to collect three votes for each person is also easier than voting method that we had last time.
16:39<@planetmaker>if you follow the link to my e-mail in the titlepage - it's a pre-made one :-)
16:39<@planetmaker>you just have to type in 3 numbers
16:39<@planetmaker>but it requires a configured e-mail client
16:41<Zuu>Yes, and even while I have a configured email client that isn't that heavy, I really don't use it for outgoing email.
16:42<Zuu>I guess a vast amount of people only ues web mail for their private emails.
16:43<Zuu>But I see you have made a template there :-)
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16:47<@planetmaker> <-- title page announcement (without links, I'll add them)
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16:47<Belugas>yes, i'm tired
16:48<Rubidium>Zuu: email adds a (small) bit of a threshold for trying to fool the system
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16:48<Belugas>there is notong for point 2 and 4 and 6
16:48<Belugas>not a thing
16:48<Rubidium>(or rather against trying to fool it)
16:49<zydeco>I think they are lines, not points
16:49<perk11>title game #12 is very nice, but why no vehicles :(
16:49<Belugas>no, there are numbers with a dot
16:49<Belugas>ho... yeah
16:49<Zuu>Rubidium: I agree on that and I hope I didn't suggest that the act of sending an email should be removed.
16:50<@planetmaker>Na, LordMwa or alike suggested that
16:50<Ammler>planetmaker: can I vote for the same game multiple times?
16:50<Mazur>Alberth: It's not for just this game, I'd like to know it more precisely, also when it's not 50%, makes it also easier to track how a city's local traffic is behaving, if the percentage falls time and again, you knwo to go fix somthing.
16:51<Zuu>Just that if you request people to follow a template when submitting votes, then you could possible reduce the work load for the person who has to count all the votes.
16:51<Belugas>"Everyone may vote once and nominate and rank his or her top three entries." -> "Everyone may only vote once, nominating and ranking his or her top three entries."
16:52<Zuu>This template could just be a bit of text to paste in your email and fill in your votes, just as what planetmaker already did - I just didn't see it.
16:53<Belugas>"The decision on which of those entries will be used will be done in two steps, two voting rounds" ->
16:53<Belugas>"The designation of winning entries will be done in two steps, two voting rounds"
16:55<Belugas>"Upon closing of votes the results will be published and detail." -> "Upon closure of polls, the results will be published and detail."
16:55<Mazur>Not: "detailed"?
16:56<Mazur>Or "in detail"?
16:56<@planetmaker>Ammler: no
16:56<@planetmaker>a ranking means to not say "this one gets 1st, 2nd and 3rd place all at once" ;-)
16:57<@planetmaker>good ideas Belugas. Thanks
16:57<zydeco>what results? who voted for what?
16:57<Zuu>If you want to promote one as much as you can, give 2nd and 3rd place to two in your opinion bad title games and hope not everyone else follow the same idea :-p
16:58<Mazur>And what are their ICBM coordinates, so we may punish them?
16:58<ABCRic>Zuu: so the 1st place will be the best and the 2nd and 3rd will be the worst? :D
16:59<Zuu>If out of all those title games only can find one acceptable and want to play your cards that way, yes.
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16:59<Belugas>planetmaker, i could do more, but i need to go, i'
16:59<Belugas>freaking tired and my wife awaits me
17:00<Belugas>so.. bye for now
17:01<Belugas>ho... and i have a Boss BD-2 pedal to try tonight :D
17:01<@planetmaker>bye Belugas & enjoy
17:01<@planetmaker> <-- zydeco
17:01<@planetmaker>latest news
17:02<Zuu>ABCRic: Or you throw away your 2nd vote on the 1.1 title game :-)
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17:03<ABCRic>Zuu: too confusing :P :)
17:04<Ammler>zuu, 9 is yours?
17:04<TGYoshi>new title screen?
17:04<Zuu>planetmaker: Btw the "all games" link in the news is broken.
17:04<Zuu>Ammler: Yes
17:05<@planetmaker>Mazur: thanks, fixed, too
17:05<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22088 /branches/1.1/src/core/ (pool_func.hpp pool_type.hpp): [1.1] -Revert (r22041): assertions to check whether Pools are actually checked before allocation still triggered in some corner cases, so leave it in trunk but remove it from the 1.1 branch
17:07<@planetmaker>thanks, Zuu
17:10<__ln__>countdown paused
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17:12<__ln__>delayed until tomorrow
17:14<@planetmaker>ah. Well. That 4:30h is a deliberate check point
17:15<__ln__>it actually paused at 04:01
17:23<DanMacK>Later all
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17:44<@planetmaker>well, happy voting folks, the first dozen people voted already :-)
17:44<@planetmaker>I'll sleep meanwhile :-) Good night
17:48<Rubidium>good night oh maker of planets ;)
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17:54<__ln__>night wolf01
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19:09<@Terkhen>good night
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21:51<supermop>anyone up for a game?
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22:39<DanMacK>Hey all
22:43-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:64e5:291b:f8be:da00] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:52<supermop>actually Dan,
22:52<supermop>i have some drawing related questions
23:02<supermop>so i have few non-fully realized ideas floating around, one of which is my shed grf
23:02<supermop>i think i have worked out most of the glitches, but it needs more content to really be complete
23:03<supermop>mainly, actual depots that match the sheds
23:03<DanMacK>I thought you did that for some reason
23:04<supermop>so i drew those, but as far as i can tell, the only way to get the depots in game is via a railtype grf, or a lot of rail grf aware code in the main grf
23:04<supermop>so i am faced with putting together a track grff, and I don't know how to code it to just use my depots with the tracks of other newgrfs already loaded
23:05<DanMacK>Ahhh, gotcha
23:05<supermop>so do you advise drawing up a basic set of rail types,
23:05<supermop>or just making some place holder graphics as proof of concept?
23:05<DanMacK>TBH, this would be better directed at the coders... I'm not familiar with the newgrf structure of newrails
23:06*DanMacK isn't familiar with newgrf period...
23:06<supermop>well, its a struggle for me
23:06<supermop>I had kind of hped that if i drew something I could attract someone to code it
23:06<supermop>but that has yet to happen
23:07<DanMacK>I draw, and I find coders :P
23:07<DanMacK>You seem to be doing a prettty good job on your own
23:07<supermop>at any rate, do you have any tips for drawing rails?
23:09<DanMacK>Don't...? lol
23:09<DanMacK>They can be a real pain to align properly
23:10<DanMacK>Best thing is start with the horizontals. Decode the main grf and go by those rails to get the slopes correct
23:12<supermop>how do you usually draw glass?
23:13<DanMacK>I use the purples
23:14<supermop>they feel odd to me on an industrial building
23:14<supermop>where the glass is not meant to be transparaent
23:14<supermop>do you shade the various rail slopes?
23:14<supermop>can't remember if ogfx does
23:15<DanMacK>Well, the dark bluish purples
23:16<DanMacK>re: Shading, I have...
23:18<DanMacK>depends on the set really
23:18<supermop>well, this one is pretty basic, can alway darken it later
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23:35<supermop>hmmyeah, the tracks on this slope do not look centered at all
23:41<DanMacK>Takes awhile to do. Keep trying, it'll eventually look right :P
23:41*DanMacK is off for the evening
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23:41<supermop>later, thanks
---Logclosed Wed Feb 16 00:00:09 2011