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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-02-17

---Logopened Thu Feb 17 00:00:10 2011
00:24<@planetmaker>moin
00:24<@planetmaker>supermop: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RailtypeLabels <-- not really an agreement, but a list of what is used by some
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00:26<supermop>thanks
00:27<supermop>can i use a switch to change the depot for regular rail depending on if a railtype grf is loaded or not?
00:28<@planetmaker>yes
00:29<supermop>so if no railgrfs are loaded, use depot a for RAIL, if there is one loaded, use B
00:29<@planetmaker>the question is: do you want to check a railtype or a grf?
00:29<supermop>well
00:29<@planetmaker>you can check for the presence of a railtype. And you can check for the presence of a grf
00:29<@planetmaker>the first is much more generic
00:30<@planetmaker>and a single grf may or may not provide a railtype, depending on ... whatever it likes
00:31<supermop>if no other grfs are oaded, RAIL is in normal rail, so it should use my metal shed, but if a grf like nutracks is loaded, RAIL is the slowest rail, so it should use my brick shed
00:31<@planetmaker>ah, ok.
00:32<@planetmaker>I guess I'd always check for the availability of the railtype (like what I posted yesterday) and then check for the presence of a specific grf:
00:33<supermop>ok
00:34<@planetmaker>swich (FEAT_RAILTYPES, SELF, nutracks_present, grf_future_status(grfid)) { ...
00:35<@planetmaker>or maybe better, add somewhere a check for different railtypes which write a paramter:
00:35<@planetmaker>other_grf_param = grf_future_status(grfid) + 2*grf_future_status(grfid2) ...
00:36<@planetmaker>switch (FEAT_RAILTYPES, other_grf_present, other_grf_param) { 1: graphics_id1; 2: graphics_id2; default_graphics; }
00:37<@planetmaker>or similar
00:39<supermop>ok
00:42<@planetmaker>did you manage to get nml running?
00:43<supermop>not yet
00:43<supermop>i havent downloaded that or python yet
00:43<supermop>but i did write some code that I think will give roughly the effect i want
00:44<supermop>i also drew a couple more depots to procrastinate
00:44<@planetmaker>aye
00:44<@planetmaker>:-)
00:45<supermop>is there a way to specify custom foundations in nml?
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00:57<@planetmaker>not sure
00:57<supermop>ok
00:57<@planetmaker>I'm not even sure what things could have custom ones. Only thing I know are stations
00:57<@planetmaker>you can - of course - replace the default ones
00:58<supermop>well it is pretty late for me, so I am going to go to bed and look into it tomorrow
00:58<@planetmaker>:-) 7am here
00:58<supermop>1 am here
00:59<supermop>good night for now, and thanks
00:59<@planetmaker>good night
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02:42<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:56<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: since when are commit messages "not obscure"? :p
02:56<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the bigger the feature, the more obscure are the commit messages .p
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05:50<zydeco>greetings
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05:54<@Terkhen>hi zydeco
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06:15<fjb>Moin
06:18<@planetmaker>moin fjb & zydeco
06:20*fjb would like to wave to planetmaker but can not see that far.
06:21*zydeco doesn't recognise that language, but assumes it's a greeting
06:22<fjb>It is a German greeting.
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06:23<zydeco>I see
06:32<@SmatZ>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=930646#p930646 so well disguised spam I even clicked that link :)
06:33<Rubidium>then you haven't really read the post
06:34<@planetmaker>Nah, today the weather is too hazy to look that far.
06:34<@planetmaker>When the weather is good, I can see the Brocken, though
06:34<@SmatZ>not really read, but it didn't look like spam on the first sight :)
06:34<@planetmaker>meh
06:36<@planetmaker>zydeco, using 'moin' as greeting usually is an indicator for a person from the North(-Western) part of Germany ;-)
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06:56<fjb>Usually I can see Braunschweig, but today I can not even see the Harz Mountains, not even the hill beside the village.
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07:09<zydeco>boom
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07:27<@planetmaker>I find it ironical nowadays when browsing the German and the English forum: in the English there's a thread "Is OpenTTD getting too complex?". In the German one that translates to "OpenTTD too simple?"
07:28<@Rubidium># isn't it ironic ;)
07:28<zydeco>hahaha
07:31<@Terkhen>:D
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07:37<DanMacK>Hey all
07:38<@peter1138>ironical, eh?
07:39<scdls>look who thinks he's clever dan
07:39<DanMacK>lol
07:40<@planetmaker>moin DanMacK
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07:44<DanMacK>how goes it?
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07:48<dihedral>planetmaker, show's which nations mind works more complex? :-D
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07:51<@planetmaker>hehe
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07:51<Z4ndX>Hi..
07:51<@planetmaker>Hi
07:52<Z4ndX>Iv downloaded af map, denmark.scn, where do i put it ?
07:52<Z4ndX>Using Debian
07:52<@planetmaker>DanMacK, all is fine, I hope for you, too ;-)
07:52<Z4ndX>And do i need to add it to the cfg ?
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>Z4ndX: in ~/.openttd/scenarios or something
07:52<@planetmaker>Z4ndX, readme section 4.2
07:52<@planetmaker>or was it a do-not-readme? ;-)
07:53<V453000>I wonder how stupid does one need to be to cry that OpenTTD is too complicated
07:53<Z4ndX>not in /usr/share/games/openttd ?
07:53<Z4ndX>planetmaker: Only made it to 4.1 ;)
07:53<@planetmaker>Z4ndX, then you'd have seen the table of contents and I'll have to assume you deliberately didn't read the section relevant for your question ;-)
07:54<Z4ndX>Your right.. i Didnt :)
07:54<Z4ndX>Will do, right away.
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>Z4ndX: you can put it there, too, but usually you don't have write access there
07:54<@planetmaker>generally ~/.openttd and it's obvious sub-dirs are good
07:54<@planetmaker>on *nix systems
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07:55<@Terkhen>V453000: all those settings might confuse a new user (even if they are labeled "advanced" and the game is perfectly playable with the defaults)
07:55<V453000>yes, they they are idiots who expect to know everything after first day of playing
07:55<@Terkhen>:D
07:56<V453000>like if this was some retarded counter strike or wat
07:56<@planetmaker>well. Maybe it'd be indeed good to have 'basic' and 'advanced' - where 'advanced' needs enabling via editing the cfg ;-)
07:57<V453000>seriously, every normal person will start playing and see what they can learn over time and slowly try this and that, piece by piece
07:57<@planetmaker>but then the same whining will start as with newgrf changes on a running game
07:57<@planetmaker>yeah :-)
07:57<@Terkhen>or two different GUIs, with the advanced one requiring to be enabled explicitly
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07:57<@planetmaker>that's what I meant :-)
07:58<@Terkhen>but I suspect someone would just enable it and ask why it is so complicated
07:58<V453000>the same with the amount of newGRFs. I heard like 100 times from idiots that they do not play with newGRFs because there is too many of them ...
07:58<@planetmaker>he
07:58<@planetmaker>well, there are.
07:58<V453000>yes, but it makes a whole new dimension for OpenTTD
07:58<@Yexo>well, that's better than the people that play with too many newGRFs
07:58<@planetmaker>And there's a huge amount which is not really worth playing with in the vast majority of cases
07:59<@Terkhen>well, at the beginning I did not want to play with NewGRFs because I was too lazy to try them and to find a set that I liked :P
07:59<@planetmaker>but they still serve sometimes corner cases
07:59<V453000>sure
07:59<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
07:59<Z4ndX>Okay red the do-not-readme.txt :) .. But dosent say where to put the *.scn file or what to write in the cfg
07:59<V453000>but damn ... why cant people just try one newGRF, see how it goes, and try something else in the next game
07:59<V453000>it is only that simple
08:00<V453000>instead they say NO, there is too many, I am not playing with it, I rather bitch around
08:00<@Terkhen>Z4ndX: in the scenario subfolder of the folder mentioned there
08:00<@planetmaker>V453000, it's an un-deletable myth that NewGRFs are just graphics... that's why
08:00<V453000>he :) guess that myth comes from the same group of people I am reffering about :p
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08:00<@Terkhen>yes, we should rename them to addons or, even better, DLC
08:01<@Terkhen>then it would be clear :)
08:01<Z4ndX>Terkhen: Should there be a subfolder called scenario ? ..
08:01<@planetmaker>if there isn't, create one
08:01<@Terkhen>^
08:01<Z4ndX>:)
08:02<V453000>Terkhen: and make there an IQ test when people launch OpenTTD, requiring at least 30 to be able to download anything or change any settings
08:03<@Terkhen>well, that's the current trend; make games simpler and simpler
08:03<Z4ndX>Terkhen: What should i edit in my cfg to load the map ?
08:03<@Rubidium>V453000: but even Sandy (a Bornean Orangutan) has an IQ of 75
08:03<@Terkhen>Z4ndX: nothing
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>Z4ndX: nothing, you can pick the scenario from the main menu
08:04<V453000>Rubidium: yes, but it feels to me like 70% of OpenTTD community has below 20
08:04<Z4ndX>Using a dedicated server.. No grafic
08:04<@Terkhen>openttd -h
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i don't think you realize what a "low IQ" is
08:05<@planetmaker>I think you might need to copy it to the save folder and rename it to *.sav
08:05<@planetmaker>./openttd -g filename.sav
08:05<@planetmaker>but maybe it works with scenarios, too
08:05<Z4ndX>Okay will try
08:05<@Rubidium>V453000: then OpenTTD must be really well known in that community
08:05<@Terkhen>IIRC it worked with scenarios, but I'm not sure
08:06<V453000>well, as long as you do not adapt OpenTTD to the stupid people, I am fine with it :p
08:07<Z4ndX>Terkhen: Nothing in man pages
08:07<@Terkhen>did you try it?
08:09<Z4ndX>the openttd -h ? yes..
08:09<Z4ndX>same as man pages
08:09<@Terkhen>openttd -g (scenario.scn)
08:09<@Terkhen>if it does not work you will need it to do what planetmaker said
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08:10<Z4ndX>planetmaker: It worked :) .. Thanks very much.
08:10<Z4ndX>*Thank you
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08:39<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=52827&start=20 <-- he, thank you V453000 :-)
08:39<V453000>for what? :D just my not so subtle opinion as always
08:40<@planetmaker>well yes. But it's a great praise of the game as it is :-)
08:40<V453000>me playing it as actively as I do for the time I do says the same, or more if you add the level in which I play it
08:40<@planetmaker>I know :-)
08:41<@planetmaker>But reading it is another thing :)
08:41<V453000>without a doubt :)
08:44<@planetmaker>and it's well written and placed in that thread, too :-)
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08:46<Wolf01>hello
08:46<dihedral>nice post :-)
08:46<dihedral>hopefully that'll shut the shouter
08:47<dihedral>hello Wolf01
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09:17<wargh>I looked at the Wiki page what "#opcodes before AI is suspended" does, but I'm still not sure exactly what this does.
09:18<@peter1138>it's the number of instructions an AI can perform in a certain time period before other processing happens
09:19<@planetmaker>wargh, AI build speed is related to that
09:19<wargh>So basically a higher value makes it "smarter"?
09:20<wargh>Or at least build faster.
09:20<@Rubidium>it reduces the amount of thinking it can do, not the amount of building
09:21<@Rubidium>though depending on the amount of thinking the AI *might* be building less, but that is merely a side effect of reducing the amount it may think in a game tick
09:21<@planetmaker>well. But AIs need to figure out where and what to build :-)
09:22<@planetmaker>So yes, most likely it will mostly influence their initial hiatus till they do something at all
09:22<@Rubidium>true, but that has nothing to do with building
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09:22<@Rubidium>for building a few hundred opcodes is more than enough
09:23<wargh>I should just increase it to whatever my computer can handle then to get teh AI to be as good as it can ba?
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>it depends on many things
09:23<@planetmaker>especially on the AI
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>the least of all: the amount of AIs you start simultaneously
09:25<wargh>I've tested about 11 of the AI's a lot the past few days to find the best ones to use. I wish they would be a bit better at building rail, and do it more often
09:26<@Yexo>you could disable the other transport types and force the AIs to build rails that way
09:26<wargh>Iäve done that with two AI's. But it seldom goes well
09:26<@Yexo>as for being better at it, specific suggestions are always welcome
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09:26<wargh>The main problem is surely that I like hilly maps with lots of water
09:27<wargh>Not sure much can be done about it from the AI's point of view
09:27<@Yexo>that kind of maps is indeed very difficult
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09:37<wargh>My computer sure didn't lite opcode set to 250 000 at least. :P
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09:38<wargh>ANyone that could recommend a value for a Core2Duo 3Ghz?
09:39<@planetmaker>I guess it's an uint16
09:39<@planetmaker>oh, like :-)
09:39<@planetmaker>wargh, just increase it in factors of two from the default value
09:39<@peter1138>Your computer didn't like it?
09:40<wargh>Yeah, typo
09:45<wargh>Is there a way to restart the AI if it fails at it's first atempt to build and goes out of money? As it is now it just stays around for a long while without going bankrupt but still lack money to build another route.
09:45<@Yexo>reload ai in the ai debug window
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09:46<wargh>Thanks
10:00<Mazur>Or buy up hte company.
10:00<@Belugas>hello
10:00<Mazur>Hi.
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12:35<supermop>good afternoon
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12:40<@Terkhen>hi supermop
12:41<supermop>hi Terkhen
12:41<supermop>how's it going?
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>downhill
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13:19<@Belugas>haaa... starting to emerge from morning-hell!
13:21-!-flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-252-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>wait... morning? man... my sleep cycle totally adjusted with "real time" this week... it's so unusual...
13:23<flitz>hi, I wanted to ask whether my idea for a little patch seems feasable or not, I didn't find much about it on the forums
13:23<@Rubidium>wait... emerge? man... you're using Gentoo now? :D
13:23<flitz>its about 'automatically' adding wagons to trains
13:25<@Rubidium>feasible in terms of possible to implement: definitely, feasible to get it into the official versions as a "little patch": probably not; general concensus seems to be going for "autoreplacing" consists, so you say: trains looking XYZ this should look like ABCD after autoreplace
13:25<Wolf01>I want a patch for train templates :|
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13:26<flitz>implementation is not the problem, I've been toying with some ideas in my head, which would make sense
13:27<@Rubidium>and adding wagons is a subset of autoreplacing consists, which means it'll be some orders of magnitudes bigger, but also way more flexible
13:27<flitz>the scenario is that I often start in early years and play with sets like the UK Renewal, where engines are weak and trains are short in the beginning
13:28<flitz>but since I built up quite some until I get better engines, adding additional wagons becomes a real chore quickly
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13:29<flitz>the most simple idea would be, to just tell trains of a given group to have a given 'minimal length' and take the first wagon of a train as template to lengthen an incoming train via autoreplace-gui
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>flitz: the problem is like Rubidium stated. "simple" patches offer too little flexibility to be generally included. it just opens another request about slightly more flexibility. and then again...
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>flitz: so better do it right once.
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>(at least for this special case)
13:34<blathijs>Though "once" might not mean "in a single patch" ;-)
13:36<flitz>So rather than adding a function to lengthen trains, there should be a function to make a train look like shape [XYZ] ?
13:37<@Yexo>indeed, a function to replace every train that looks like [ABC] with a train that looks like [XYZ].
13:37<@Yexo>lengthening trains would be the special case of replacing trains that look like [ABB] with [ABBBB]
13:37<@Terkhen>it has been discused here a few times as "consists", I don't remember if there was a thread at the forums too
13:38<@Yexo>I'm quite sure alberth made multiple forum posts about it, not sure if there is a single topic for it
13:38<flitz>the problem of purely adding wagons was on the forums some years ago
13:38<flitz>seems to have been dropped I think
13:39<@Yexo>well, there have been a lot of suggestions on the forum that have never been implemented
13:41<flitz>The shape of a train could be composed in the same style as you build a train in the depot. This could be then used as template for train replacement. Doesn't sound too difficult actually.
13:41<@Yexo>that is the idea
13:41<@Yexo>problems arise from the fact that in the depot you've already bought the train
13:42<@Yexo>when you build the template you're just building a template, you're not actually buying any vehicles
13:42<@Yexo>at least, that's one idea. Another is to let the user build the desired train first and set autoreplace between two trains, remove the concept of "consist without a train"
13:43<@Yexo>further problems come from a lot of discussions about how groups should work, since autoreplace is currently tightly bound to the groups feature that has impact too
13:44<flitz>This autoreplace-gui is used for groups indiviually. Why not let there be such a replacement-template be stored per group and be used when autoreplace is checked ?
13:44<flitz>ah okay, I see.
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13:44<@Yexo>sure, you can store a replacement-template per group, but how to create that template?
13:44<flitz>the replacement-gui gets a depot-like gui addition
13:45<@Yexo>also keep in mind that newgrfs can disallow attaching certain wagons to certain engines, and openttd doesn't know about that until the vehicles are actually bought
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13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: translators * r22091 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 41 changes by ww9980
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: danish - 23 changes by beruic, krak
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 125 changes by Luis_Mizuchiro
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: thai - 19 changes by kenny
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: urdu - 15 changes by yasirniazkhan
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22092 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix-ish (r22068): when you change a boolean to a enum, check specifically for a particular value
13:46<flitz>this is a problem, the code that checks this would need to be integrated into this function too
13:47<@Belugas>Rubidium? Gentoo? ENOPARSE
13:47<@Terkhen>lots of updates to translations :)
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13:48<@Rubidium>Belugas: emerge is the package "management" tool of Gentoo
13:49<@Rubidium>and Gentoo is a Linux distribution
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13:50<flitz>Terkhen: I could provide two of them immediately ;)
13:51<@Belugas>haaaa...
13:52<@Belugas>Gentoo -> Linux, that i knew :)
13:52<@Belugas>but that's about all I know :)
13:52<@Belugas>on Gentoo, of course...
13:53<@Rubidium>and "emerge world" is (IIRC) the command to fetch, compile and install all new versions
13:53<@peter1138>Except those that it decides not to.
13:54<flitz>more or less all :)
13:55<@Terkhen>flitz: feel free to apply as a translator for those translations
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14:17<@Alberth>andy figured out what the game is all about, I see :D
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14:19<__ln__>http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613083
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14:20<@Terkhen>:O
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14:23<andythenorth>has anyone backed up the TTD repo into a tinfoil shoe box?
14:23<andythenorth>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12493980
14:24<@Terkhen>half of the earth surface will not be affected, right?
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14:26<andythenorth>dunno
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14:27<Eddi|zuHause>there was a time a few years back where aurora borealis was visible in northern germany
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>most notable effect: the UFO phone lines were ringing constantly :p
14:28<@Terkhen>:D
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14:28<Eddi|zuHause>i was too far south to see it, though...
14:29<__ln__>what's remarkable is that there are UFO phone lines in germany
14:29<@Terkhen>let's just hope they don't reach me then :)
14:29<ctibor>i have seen it on 48°48'
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>i'm about the same latitude as london
14:30*Terkhen is at about 37º
14:31*__ln__ 60°27'
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>i'm around 51°-ish
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>it probably was a cloudy night...
14:36*__ln__ 60° 27' 2.5194"
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>and why wouldn't there be ufo hotlines in germany? it's not like the USA has a monopoly on nutjobs :p
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14:51<@peter1138>anyone know where electric fence lives? :S
14:52<@peter1138>hmm, well, the official one seems to be... old
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15:02<@Belugas>oops... ninjamserver killed...
15:02<@Belugas>restored
15:02<@Belugas>oops... wrong channel
15:02<@Belugas>undo knob... where are you????
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>tell me more about this ninja that thou speakest of
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>speakst?
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>whatever.
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15:10<@Belugas>ninjam is a service qhere two (and/or more) can play together musical intruments over the internet
15:10<@Belugas>that what peter and i are using when life allows me to reach out to him :)
15:11<@Belugas>very cool, very impressive
15:11<@Belugas>apart when communication is not good
15:11<@Belugas>then, it's frustrating
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15:16<@Belugas>so... if you have an instrument that can be hooked to a computer (via line out, via mic, via a program, via whatever), you launch your ninjam client,
15:16<@Belugas>you connect to a pre-defined server,
15:17<@Belugas>you play and one measure after you connected, you receive what the other(s) is(are) playing
15:17<@Belugas>collaborative music
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15:29<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, all my instruments are "analogue"
15:31<@Belugas>so?
15:31<@Belugas>mine too are :)
15:32<@Belugas>mine too is...
15:32<@Belugas>i only have one guiter :S
15:36<@peter1138>UNDO KNOB
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15:43<andythenorth>where am I?
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15:45*andythenorth is at lat 51.4742 apparently
15:46<@peter1138>f.lux?
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16:06<CIA-11>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22093 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4514]: The server list did not get sorted with one item in it, so the "position in the list" variable was never updated causing problems when using the keyboard shortcuts for scrolling
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16:16<krinn>hi all
16:16<krinn>how can i get the cargo type a vehicle is using if it has no cargo load ?
16:17<krinn>(with noai)
16:19<krinn>i mean, does AIVehicle.GetCapacity will be 0 if the vehicle can't currently (not refit for it) handle it ?
16:19<@Yexo>AIVehicle.GetCapacity is 0 is the vehicle can't currently handle it, but it might be able to handle it after refitting
16:20<krinn>ah great! so i can just foreach all cargo until i found > 0 that means that vehicle currently is fit for that cargo
16:20<@Yexo>yes, but keep in mind that a single vehicle can be able to transport multiple cargos at the same time
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16:21<@Yexo>aircraft with passengers/mail is the simplest example
16:21<krinn>yes, but not trucks if i'm right
16:21<@Yexo>articulated trucks can have that too
16:21<@Yexo>although that's currently only a theoretical problem as I don't know of any road newgrf that uses articulated trucks with multiple cargo types
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16:22<krinn>ouf!
16:22<krinn>what is the purpose of AIVehicle.GetUnitNumber ?
16:23<krinn>it's clear, it return the unitnumber, but what is it? :)
16:23<@Yexo>it's a unique number which is also part of the default vehicle name
16:23<@Rubidium>ever seen the numbers next to vehicles in e.g. the vehicle lists?
16:23<@Yexo>train #10 has unitnumber 10
16:24<krinn>thank you
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16:28<krinn>that unitnumber is taken from the name or an internal fixed number ?
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16:30<krinn>it's to get clear why this number exist when you have vehicleID and if altering the name won't alter that function?
16:31<@Yexo>an internal fixed number
16:32<@Yexo>every vehicle-part has a vehicleID (also every wagon of a train, the shadow of aircraft, the rotors of a helicopter) while only front vehicles (front engine / wagon of a train, a truck, etc.) has a unit number
16:33<@Yexo>basically the vehicleID is something internal to make the game work but the unit number is also shown to the user in a few places
16:34<krinn>not harming, looks just a bit a dup no ?
16:35<@Yexo>it's necesary to generate a unique vehicle name like "Train #xy"
16:35<@Yexo>in theory the vehicleID could be used for that, but then you wouldn't get nicely increasing numbers
16:35<@Yexo>as AI you can safely ignore the number
16:36<krinn>ok, because train #xy could have multi-vehiculeID when using more trains engine in train
16:36<krinn>something to stay stable even i switch train engine from pos 1 to 2...
16:37<@Yexo>vehicleID is not unique per company
16:37<@Yexo>if you buy a train engine and 3 wagons they'll get vehicleIDs 0, 1, 2 and 3 (assuming no other vehicles exists at the time)
16:37<@Yexo>when you start it and the engine generates some steam, the steam is a special vehicle that gets vheicleID 4
16:37<@Yexo>now another company buys a truck, it'll get vehicleID 5
16:38<krinn>i see what you mean now, and naming that train with 1st vehicleID won't stay stable if i move that vehicle at last pos
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16:38<@Yexo>you buy another train engine, vehicleID 6 but unit number 2
16:38<@Yexo>it wouldn't be nice to show "Train #1" and "Train #6" to the user when he only build 2 trains
16:38<krinn>yes agree
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16:57<Zuu>I never noticed the GetUnitNumber function in the API. :-)
16:57<krinn>:) i notice things people don't see
16:57<@Belugas>I see I see said the blind man
16:57<@Belugas>high sea high sea sid the mariner
16:58<krinn>pretty sure you're not drinking only water belugas
16:58<@Belugas>I-C I-C said the diod
16:59<@Belugas>:)
16:59<krinn>:)
16:59<@Belugas>what to expect, end of day, which was a pure hellish one!
16:59<krinn>did you see the little doxygen bug ?
16:59<Zuu>IC IC said the train entusiast
17:00<krinn>the AIStation doesn't appears as an AIObject class, i'm sure it should
17:00<krinn>http://noai.openttd.org/docs/1.0.5/classAIObject.html <--
17:01<@Belugas>i see bugs all day long
17:01<@Belugas>i'm tired of bugs
17:01<@Belugas>even more when they are not mine!
17:01<@Belugas>going home now...
17:01<Zuu>krinn: It does for trunk
17:01<@Belugas>goona play guitar and Limbo!
17:02<Zuu>Also in 1.0.5 as far as I can see.
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17:02<Zuu>I see AIObject <- AIBaseStation <- AIStation
17:02<krinn>:) we don't have the same page so
17:02<krinn>ah ok i see it too so
17:03<krinn>told you i see also dead people ?
17:05<Wolf01>'night
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17:10*Zuu prefere seeing deaf people over dead people
17:11*krinn think Zuu can't speak to them in both case
17:11*Zuu thinks krinn is wrong
17:12*Zuu even know some ASL
17:12<krinn>is that sign language ?
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17:13<Zuu>ASL is the American Sign Language.
17:14<krinn>oh, i was even thinking it only exist one universal one
17:15<krinn>but i never really think about it, seems logic is per language :P
17:15<Zuu>As likely as there would be only one universal spoken language.
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17:21<Zuu>But at least some sign languages use the same letter signs. Eg A-Z in the US is the same as A-Z in Germany. But UK use another one and Sweden yet another one.
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17:22<krinn>some must be common, the C letter should be a half close hand or something like that no ?
17:25<krinn>must be hard to learn
17:30<Zuu>The C letter in ASL and here in Sweden use the same hand shape but in a different angle.
17:31<Zuu>In the UK they use a two-handed letter system.
17:32<krinn>they speak it by using letters?
17:33<krinn>i was thinking the language use more a visual shortcut for words, well, comomn words
17:33<krinn>dunno, but like putting hand in your heart to say heart... things like that
17:35<Zuu>the letters are mostly used to spell out names and for short words. For most words there exist a sign. Also it is not just signed english/british/swedish etc. but uses another grammar etc.
17:36<krinn>yeah, as i said, must be really hard to learn
17:36<Zuu>yes since it is a language of its own that you have to learn.
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18:11<@Terkhen>good night
18:11<zydeco>bye Terkhen
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18:15<CIA-11>OpenTTD: yexo * r22094 /trunk/src/hotkeys.cpp: -Fix [FS#4510]: remove invalid keycodes when reading hotkeys.cfg
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20:38<lstor>How do I iterate over an enum? EnumPropsT<T> seems to be for that purpose, but how do I increment? Grep-ing the code gives me the impression this is never ever done, but that seems odd. What am I missing?
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20:54<Lakie>What language lstor?
20:55<lstor>C++. OpenTTD source code
20:55<Lakie>Its not directly possible in C++
20:56<Lakie>You could start at the lowest and work to the highest (assuming continual)...
20:56<lstor>I made it work using an int, and then converting it to the right enum using a switch, but that doesn't scale if another enum is added.
20:57<lstor>How would you do that? op++() and op+=() don't work for enums
20:57<lstor>I'm sorry if I'm being stupid now, it's been a while since I wrote C++
20:57<Lakie>Set an enum as the lowest vaue and one as the heights?
20:57<Lakie>highest*
20:58*Lakie had a similar issue and ended up hardcoding it due to being uncontinous in their values....
20:59<lstor>Okay, assume the following: for (Track t = TRACK_BEGIN; t != TRACK_END; ++t) { /* ... */ }
20:59<lstor>++t won't compile, so how would I iterate / step?
20:59<Lakie>int t?
21:00<Lakie>And cast on use?
21:00<Lakie>or ++((int)t)?
21:02<lstor>Okay, thanks! I assumed that since implicit conversion didn't work, explicit casts wouldn't either.
21:02-!-DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279480034.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
21:02<DanMacK>Hey all
21:03<+glx>try t++
21:03<Lakie>Hi DanMacK
21:05<lstor>glx: Even better. Thanks!
21:05<+glx>and your grep failed :)
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21:09<+glx>DECLARE_POSTFIX_INCREMENT(Track) <-- we defined only postfix increment ;)
21:10<Lakie>Hehe
21:11<+glx>TinyEnumT has both (and it's done in a different way)
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21:42<lstor>How can the test run and real run of a command execution differ? (i.e. the assert() in command.cpp:694 fails) What do they do differently?
21:42<lstor>(What I'm trying to do is to make the 'convert rail'-button change from semaphores to electrical signals if control is pressed)
21:43<lstor>I'm presuming I'm messing something up while calculating costs, but how does the test know that? If that indeed is the problem
21:45<+glx>test and exec should return the same cost
21:47<lstor>Hmm. The assert() tests res.GetCost() == res2.GetCost() and res.Failed() == res2.Failed(), so that means (only) one of them claims to fail?
21:51<+glx>res is the test, res2 is the execution, so exec failed or returned a different cost
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21:53<lstor>Yes, but what do they differently? How can they differ? I mean, if I calculate the costs wrong in my code (if that is the problem), how come that's only reflected in exec and not test?
21:53<@Yexo>it can also be the other way
21:53<@Yexo>if you fail to check for the exec flag and you actually convert them during the test, the exec run won't have the costs added
21:54<@Yexo>or something like that, it's hard to say without a patch
21:54<lstor>Ah
21:55<lstor>Yes, I didn't check for the exec flag
21:55<lstor>Thanks!
21:59<@Yexo>lstor: also don't check for ctrl in the actual command
22:00<@Yexo>do it in the code calling DoCommandP and add the status of ctrl as a bit in p1 or p2
22:01<lstor>Yeah, it felt a little shady checking it in the command. Thanks again
22:03*Lakie guesses OpenTTD doesn't sent the ctrl state in mp?
22:05<@Yexo>exactly
22:05<@Yexo>also in MP there can be a delay between starting the action (clicking with the mouse) and the actual execution of the command
22:06<Lakie>Ok, didn't know that.
22:07<supermop>can anyone answer a nml question?
22:08<@Yexo>yes
22:09<supermop>so i have a thing that says, if a rail is RAIL, use switch A for depot graphics
22:10<supermop>i want multiple railtypes to use depot A, though
22:10<supermop>can i have that thing say if RAIL or 3RDR use A?
22:11<@Yexo>you can say "if RAIL, use A. if 3RDR, use A"
22:11<supermop>or should I make a separate thing for each rail type
22:11<@Yexo>just copy the definition for each rail type
22:11<supermop>ok
22:11<@Yexo>not really sure how what you're trying now though
22:12<supermop>i have no idea what i am doing
22:12<supermop>the other thing i was wondering was,
22:12<supermop>can nml define custom foundations for certain buildings?
22:13<@Yexo>depends on the kind of building, but generally it should be possible
22:13<@Yexo>you might need to include the actual foundation graphics in your grf though
22:13<supermop>ok, cool
22:13<supermop>yeah
22:13<supermop>i have draw some
22:14<supermop>i want my brick depots to use some brick foundations, and newer ones to use concrete
22:14<supermop>i guess the next thing i have to do is instal some programs to make the nml into a grf
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22:22<supermop>are these labels well agreed upon? http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RailtypeLabels
22:33<supermop>or, is there any common label for NG?
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22:46<lstor>The test ret.GetCost() is 220, ret2.GetCost() is 55. The relevant function is pasted at http://codepad.org/XWINjElg -- any idea how I compute the costs wrong?
23:01<supermop>does anyone want to look over my nml?
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23:34<+glx>lstor: and success status ?
23:35<supermop>I cannot figure out what i am supposed to do with python here
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 18 00:00:19 2011