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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-02-21

---Logopened Mon Feb 21 00:00:38 2011
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01:42<Lapsus>Hello! :3
01:43<Lapsus>Can anyone point me in the right direction as to getting newGRFs working on a shell-only dedicated server? I'm apparently incompetent. Using 1.1.0-RC1
01:44<Lapsus>on ubuntu 10.10
01:45<Lapsus>So far I've gotten the GRFs onto the machine, and have openTTD running a vanilla dedicated server.
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02:01<Lapsus>Anyone? How can I get GRFs onto a dedicated server?
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02:04<Lapsus>All I can find on the forums is a thread that mentions that downloading newGRFs through bananas is possible from the console, but it doesn't mention how. ./openttd -h doesn't mention anything about it either.
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02:25<@peter1138>heh
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02:34<Zuu>Hehe a "Chris_Sawyer" has posted to the forums :-p
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02:56<@planetmaker>moin
02:57<@planetmaker>hehe, yeah, saw that :-P
03:00<@Terkhen>good morning
03:00<@planetmaker>hi Terkhen
03:02*planetmaker wonders what kind of test balloon this Chris_Sawyer instance in the forum might be
03:02<@planetmaker>It would probably be fun to do that as part of a BA or BSc in social sciences or psychology
03:03<@Terkhen>I have still not seen the post but I doubt it's something as elaborate as that :)
03:04<@planetmaker>it's a pointless posting... and I've seen the images http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=53021
03:05<@Terkhen>heh :D
03:07<Eddi|zuHause>is there any possibility to even remotely check the validity of the poster?
03:07<@planetmaker>I wonder that, too. I don't see more than you, though, either
03:08<@Yexo>it's posted from an ip belonging to http://www.tpg.com.au/
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03:10<@Terkhen>quite far from Chris Sawyer's home
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03:10<@planetmaker>quite so, yes
03:11<krinn>hi
03:11<krinn>well, morning
03:11<krinn>heu, for the ones who it's morning
03:11<@Terkhen>hi krinn
03:11<@planetmaker>moin krinn
03:12<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: at least that explains the time it was posted ;)
03:12<@planetmaker>:-P
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03:24<@Terkhen>someone already believed him
03:29<krinn>just hoax
03:29<krinn>if i was sawyer going on a TT forum, i would have post TT image, not roller coaster ones
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03:48<Eddi|zuHause>cool... "a random name at a freemailer" is now "real enough"? :p
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03:52<krinn>well, it's his real email
03:52<krinn>don't you trust mine ? God@hotmail.com ?
04:04<Eddi|zuHause>google doesn't find any instances of this email
04:04<krinn>well, you don't really have to google for that :)
04:05<krinn>if you need an email to stop spam, it's easy : mqldkajqslfksdf@qkfmsdflkdj.com will do it
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>not this one... that one in the post :p
04:06<krinn>why whould he take time to create an email sawyer-nospam@anywhere.com when he just have to set a stupid/invalid email for that
04:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand the question
04:07<krinn>well, you want to check the email is valid looking up in google
04:08<krinn>and i'm trying to tell you, that's not need as the email show itself it's not
04:09<krinn>say your email is eddi@there.com, if you post on a forum and don't want get spam
04:09<krinn>you'll post nospam@notthere.com or anything
04:09<krinn>or your real but modify as eddi-nospam@there.com
04:10<krinn>so users should check eddi(remove -nospam)@there.com, but anyway the one you told them is invalid
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04:11<krinn>clearer ? :/
04:12<Eddi|zuHause>i understand what you are saying, but not what you mean...
04:12<Eddi|zuHause>it's like you're talking about something completely different
04:13<krinn>maybe, i saw sawyer-nospam@hotmail.com something like that
04:14<krinn>chris_sawyer_spambox@hotmail.com that's the email i see
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04:16<krinn>i should have learn better english at school sorry :)
04:18<@peter1138>"email account seem real enough" haha
04:18<asilv>i'm tempted to register as barack_obama with hotmail address and post to that thread
04:19<@planetmaker>that's boring. Rather choose the dalai lama or the pope
04:19<krinn>don't pickup God@hotmail i reserved it for me !
04:20<@planetmaker>or Liu Xiaobo
04:20<JamesG>Doesn't the forum check that email addresses are valid?
04:20<krinn>at creation like all forum, you can then modify it as you wish i think
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04:31<JamesG>Where would someone get the development pictures though?
04:34<@planetmaker>see the link I posted
04:34<@planetmaker>tt-ms.de
04:34<@planetmaker>it's up for years
04:35<@Yexo>planetmaker: the link you posted was to the new topic, or did I miss it?
04:36<asilv>there is another thread at off topic
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04:40<@planetmaker>Yexo, I posted a link in the topic "where's chris sawyer" (or similar name)
04:40<@Yexo>ah, ok :)
04:40<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=931248#p931248
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05:17<krinn>is there a way to grab easy an item number from an AIList() like list.GetValue() but for the item not its value ?
05:19<@Yexo>what do you mean? Get an item that has a specific value?
05:22<krinn>if i wish grab item #3 from an AIList
05:22<krinn>now i must 1/ removetop + keepbottom for taht 2/ loop until i reach 3
05:23<krinn>i wonder if there is a simple way to grab item #3 from an AIList
05:23<@Yexo>no
05:23<@Yexo>Begin(); Next(); Next(); is really the easiest way
05:24<krinn>keeptop(item#) keepbottom(item#) is faster to write, but destructive
05:25<@Yexo>if you need that often, maybe you shouldn't be using an AIList
05:25<krinn>well, it's because i use a lot the uniq key+easy valuator
05:31<krinn>AIAbstractList.GetItem() should be a nice addition imo
05:31<@Yexo>there is no good way to implement that in the API without looping through the list
05:32<@Yexo>having such a function would make it look like an efficient way to get the Xth element of the list, while it's not efficient at all
05:32<krinn>well, it will just do list.KeepTop(item#) list.KeepBottom(item#) ?
05:32<krinn>and return then list.Begin()
05:33<@Yexo>just RemoveTop(item#) should be enough
05:33<krinn>lol yes :)
05:34<@Yexo>but that wouldn't be an acceptable implementatino for GetItem(item#), since I wouldn't expect such a function to destroy the list
05:34<@Yexo>if you don't mind about that, you can still implement it in your own AI
05:34<krinn>you don't have to destroy the list, as you only return the item#
05:34<krinn>you copy it, destroy copy, return value
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05:35<Noldo>cheap!
05:35<@Yexo>AIList.GetItem <- function(item_no) { this.RemoveTop(item_no); return this.Begin(); }
05:35<@Yexo>try to insert that at the top of main.nut and try to see if it works
05:35<@Yexo>krinn: you know how inefficient copying a list is just to get a single item?
05:36<krinn>yeah, but looping thru it is the same
05:36<krinn>i think copy is faster than looping
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05:36<@Yexo>it's most certainly not
05:36<@Yexo>a copy has to loop though the list and copy every value
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05:37<@Yexo>to find a certain item you only have to loop until that item, no further, and you don't have to construct another list
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05:38<Eddi|zuHause>wait... raising a cow, feeding it, and getting it to the slaughterhouse is not easier than buing beef in the supermarket?
05:39<krinn>well, if the GetItem do the loop -> i'll get one line function = goal reach
05:39<Noldo>you know you can make functions of your own?
05:40<krinn>yes, i'm not speaking for me now, i know the problem and the solve
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: that was NOT the point that Yexo made
05:40<krinn>it's just it would be nice for the api
05:40<@Yexo>I disagree
05:40<@Yexo>there have been written several AIs, and you're the first to bring this up as far as I remember
05:41<krinn>maybe i found another way to use AIList
05:41<@Yexo>maybe, and maybe you're using an AIList where you should use a squirrel array instead
05:41<Noldo>random access and list are not friends
05:41<krinn>agree with that, but using the AIList gave me the valuate and sort functions at hands
05:42<@Yexo>I think squirrel arrays also support sort
05:44<krinn>looks: cargo=AICargoList(); rnd=AIBase.RandRange(cargo.Count()); item=cargo.GetItem(rnd); that kind of usage is what i do with AIList
05:45<@Yexo>just create a function GetRandomItem in squirrel and use that
05:45<@Yexo>all the tools for it are available, I see no reason to put it in the API
05:45<krinn>i'm not using it for random purpose
05:45<krinn>only
05:46<@Yexo>so also create a GetItem function in squirrel.
05:46<@Yexo>the C++ code can't do it (much) more efficient than a function implemented in squirrel, so I see no reason to add it to the API
05:46<krinn>i will do that, i can extend AIAbstractList() for that
05:47<krinn>the only reason was for the api to offer that function as there's a usage
05:47<@Yexo>Mind that AIAbstractList was removed from the 1.1 API
05:47<krinn>but ailist replace it no ?
05:47<@Yexo>yes
05:48<krinn>just a name change ?
05:48<@Yexo>but if you also want to use it for AICargoList you might need to extand AICargoList too
05:48<@Yexo>sort-of
05:48<krinn>isn't AIAbstractList the root of AICargoList ?
05:48<@Yexo>see the ai/compat_*.nut scripts to see how to add functions to existing classes
05:49<@Yexo>since 1.1 there is no AIAbstractList anymore
05:49<@Yexo>AIList is now the base class of AICargoList
05:49<krinn>i read that i take care to only use AIList() (witch are now AIAbstractList with one or two more functions)
05:50<krinn>but until 1.1 is out i think i couldn't extend AIList no?
05:51<@Yexo>I'm not sure, you might need to extend all AI*List subclasses for which you want to use your new function
05:51<@Yexo>again, see ai/compat_*.nut
05:51<krinn>i'm sorry, where i see them?
05:52<@Yexo>openttd install directory/ai/
05:55<krinn>thank you, but empty for me :P
05:55<krinn>still 1.0.5 here
05:56<@Yexo>you should still have compat_0.7.nut
05:56<krinn>i have it yes
05:56<@Yexo>that one shouldn't be empty
05:57<krinn>it's not, but i see nothing about any list in here
05:58<@Yexo>you'll at least find information on how to extend a class
05:58<@Yexo>otherwise try updating to 1.1.0-RC1 and look again
05:59<@Yexo>download the zip file and extract that if you don't want to update your installation yet
05:59<krinn>will do, i prefer kept that version under portage control
06:00<krinn>but i think you already told me howto :p
06:00<krinn>AIList.GetItem <- function(item_no) { this.RemoveTop(item_no); return this.Begin(); }
06:00<@Yexo>that was from memory without testing or even looking at those files myself
06:01<krinn>looks ok for me, except destroying the list for now, i will of course change that
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06:13<krinn>:) the new trunk AIList() is = AIAbstractList + AddItem & RemoveItem, eheh and we won't have a GetItem :)
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06:44<zydeco>greetings
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06:46<krinn>hi
06:48<krinn>you're right Yexo i can extends AIList but this doesn't work for AICargoList :(
06:48<@Terkhen>hi zydeco
06:49<krinn>class AIList extends ::AIList { function GetItem(item_um) { AILog.Info("test"); } } works only for AIList
06:50<krinn>that's because AICargoList is not attach to AIAbstractList?
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06:53<Eddi|zuHause>i think you're approaching this the wrong way...
06:54<krinn>that's more for general fix, i could still make a more general function GetItem(list, item_num)
06:55<krinn>and this is what i will do, else i must extends AIAbstractList and this will made it incompatible with 1.1
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07:07<DanMacK>Hey all
07:07<krinn>hi
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08:22<krinn>how can i check a tile height ? to compare with a next tile to see they are at same height
08:29<yorick>krinn: GetMinHeight/GetMaxHeight
08:30<krinn>is it getmin=getmax then tile is flat ?
08:30<yorick>yes
08:31<krinn>cool, thank you
08:31<yorick>but you can use GetSlope for that too
08:31<krinn>i didn't really get the slope things
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08:47<yorick>why doesn't the signal gui have hotkeys?
08:48<yorick>a cycle signal type one would be enough
08:48<@planetmaker>reason: no one wrote a patch for that
08:48<@planetmaker>make one without default keys and it probably would be quite ok
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>while you're at it, make a hotkey to toggle the convert button as well
08:58<@Terkhen>what should happen if one of those keys is set as a global hotkey?
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and the cycle signal type should respect the advanced setting
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09:04<@Belugas>hello
09:08<yorick>BELUGAS!
09:09<@Terkhen>hi Belugas
09:09<@SmatZ>hello Belugas
09:09<@SmatZ>yorick!
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09:09<yorick>hello SmatZ
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09:11<@SmatZ>hello :)
09:11<yorick>Terkhen: the signal gui is quite nonpersistent and disappears when it loses focus anyways
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09:12<@Terkhen>yorick: the default behaviour for global hotkeys is to open their toolbar (for example with auto rail)
09:12<@Terkhen>but in this case it would need two windows, the toolbar and the signal gui
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09:13<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: you can already open the toolbar with the 's' key. no new global hotkey needed
09:13<@Terkhen>I know, I was asking what would happen if someone set up global hotkeys for these new hotkeys
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: then i don't understand the problem
09:14<yorick>Terkhen: it ignores the "GLOBAL" part?
09:17<@Terkhen>I guess the way to find out is to set S as global :)
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09:34<krinn>is there a difference to use RemoveRoadStation or just destroy its tile (ai pov) ?
09:40<yorick>http://sprunge.us/Mbag?diff
09:41<yorick>krinn: RemoveRoadStation might keep the road
09:41<krinn>ah yes
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10:05<yorick>one of the old new newgrf guis had a feature where you could drag&drop the newgrfs in the list instead of using the buttons move up & down
10:05<yorick>(just like with orders)
10:11<TrueBrain>@openttd revision
10:11<TrueBrain>@openttd commit
10:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r22124 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2011-02-20 21:10:58 UTC)
10:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Codechange: move comment to its logical place
10:12<TrueBrain>22124 ... bah
10:13<krinn>:) expect more stability and speed
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10:14<@Terkhen>who will do the suggestion number 4000?
10:14-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-90-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
10:16<@SmatZ>@fs 4000
10:16<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4000
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10:16<@SmatZ>ok, that's not what you meant
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: the suggestions forum has 3999 topics
10:18<@SmatZ>ok, thanks :)
10:18<krinn>i could post the AIList need GetItem :)
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: wrong forum for that
10:19<yorick>lets request ingame weather again
10:19<@SmatZ>:)
10:19<krinn>ingame night ?
10:19<@SmatZ>or undo function
10:19<yorick>krinn: no that's already there
10:19<@SmatZ>next one suggesting that is asking for ban :p
10:19<krinn>the "i want newgrf not remove others ones " ?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: undo knob, please :)
10:20<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: great suggestion, I will give it a try :)
10:20<yorick>http://users2.tt-forums.net/ttdur/ttdur.htm <-- night conversion
10:20<yorick>somewhere down
10:20-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-249-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:20<yorick>also undo was rejected :P
10:20<yorick>maybe as a cheat
10:20<@SmatZ>it has been suggested and rejected many times
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: apparently that doesn't prevent anyone from suggesting it again
10:21<krinn>a undo is certainly cheat, but a "confirm for high cost" could prevent stupid tunnels built :)
10:21<yorick>http://users2.tt-forums.net/ttdur/img/nighttd.gif <-- I want more night!
10:21<yorick>night trains with headlights!
10:22<krinn>it's nice yorick !
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: headlights are easy, but a glow effect is not
10:23<yorick>combine it with daylight!
10:23<yorick>daylength*
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes. i'm looking forward to your implementation.
10:23<yorick>:(
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10:28<@Terkhen>:D
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10:29<Wolf01>hello
10:29<@Terkhen>it's been a while since we had a copy paste suggestion, what about one of those?
10:29<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
10:29<yorick>Terkhen: someone's already working on it
10:29<Wolf01>copy&paste... why not?
10:29<@Terkhen>yorick: yes, but no one has suggested it in a while
10:30<yorick>:D
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10:45<DanMacK>Hey Lakie
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11:24<__ln__>Terkhen: do you mean like copy-pasting tracks and stuff?
11:24<@Terkhen>as a frequently repeated suggestion, yes
11:26<__ln__>could be nice
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11:49<@Belugas>getting close to lnch hour
11:49<@Belugas>stomach grumbles
11:54<@Belugas>Mogwai - Rano Pano
11:54<@Belugas>LOOOOOUDER!!!!
11:55<krinn>:)
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12:10<DJNekkid>whats the opposite of \7gG ?
12:10<@planetmaker>!\7gG ;-)
12:11<DJNekkid>*mumble something about slapping and a large trout*
12:11<@planetmaker>:-)
12:12<@planetmaker>\7g && \7GG
12:12<@planetmaker>combined
12:13<DJNekkid>or \7Gg ? :P
12:13<@planetmaker>can you say in plain words what condition you need?
12:14<@planetmaker>what is in plain words to you the opposite of your action7 escape sequence?
12:14<krinn>how to get rich (i hope planetmaker answer anything !)
12:14<DJNekkid>i want to notify the end user with an error if DB-set is loaded AFTER nutracks
12:14<DJNekkid>\7gG gives the exact opposite
12:15<@planetmaker>DJNekkid, not really. It just depends on what sprite follows
12:15<@planetmaker>If the following sprite is "jump to label" you're fine
12:15<@planetmaker>and the 2nd next is disable
12:15<@planetmaker>(or rather error)
12:15<@planetmaker>and the 3rd next is the label
12:15<DJNekkid>that is a point i guess
12:17<@planetmaker>krinn, gladly I'll help you find that answer. My advice is not free, though, you just need to transfer the hourly consultant fee of 100€ to my bank account to get started
12:17<DJNekkid>just 100? thats cheap
12:17<krinn>can't deal with a "i'll pay you when i'm rich" ? :)
12:17<DJNekkid>that about what my company fee you if i do work in your home :)
12:18<@planetmaker>krinn, indeed. That's something I can't deal with in this respect. Only advance payment accepted
12:18<@planetmaker>best transfer method is via Western Union
12:18<@planetmaker>:-P
12:19<krinn>noway i don't trust this, i better put my 100€ in actions, i've got hints from Madoff guy
12:21<Zuu>krinn: Have you found autoreplace in the NoAI API?
12:21<krinn>didn't really seach for it, i don't use it
12:21<krinn>at first i was using an autoreplace of my own
12:21<V453000>krinn: I did this with pm as well, now I am rich as fuck
12:22<DJNekkid>planetmaker: thanx, that worked like a charm
12:22<krinn>but it's faster to just sell the vehicle & buy a new one
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12:22<krinn>AICompany.SetAutoRenewStatus(false); is what in know about that
12:22<krinn> /in/i
12:22<Zuu>Hmm, my bad, I was thinking about autoreplace, not autorenew.
12:23<Zuu>Autorenew is probably in there as a game setting.
12:23<DJNekkid>but feels kinda like a 'upside down'
12:23<DJNekkid>way to do it
12:23<krinn>dunno, renew or replace is not really useful for the ai
12:23<@planetmaker>krinn, it is. Less op codes
12:24<krinn>not really planetmaker (for my case)
12:24<Zuu>It's not that hard to implement. I just started on something to quicker upgrade to better vehicles than waiting for the old ones to be sold because they are old.
12:25<krinn>i balance vehicle need by station providing
12:25<Zuu>But if it were available in a usable form it might be usefull.
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12:25<krinn>so if i sell a vehicle and i need one more, it will just buy it
12:25<krinn>and as autoreplace generally get a bigger version, it's just bad to get bigger capacity while still have same number of vehicle
12:25<@planetmaker>krinn, autoreplace does not wait for old age
12:25<Zuu>That's how I buy new ones when old vehicles are sold. Eg. waiting for it to reach the treshold for buing new vehicles due to too low capacity.
12:26<krinn>i don't wait old age, i replace when it's out or preview :p
12:26<Zuu>However, that's not good when a brand new engine is invented that is twice as good as the old one.
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12:28<krinn>what i do is compare engine with new engine, then add that to a list
12:28<krinn>eveytimes a new engine is out/preview i update that list
12:28<krinn>and the list is just old engine -> new engine
12:28<krinn>and i've just check if oldengine=newengine no update need
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12:29<Zuu>well, what autoreplace is usefull for is to carry out a replacement. Not the act of figuring out what engine to replace with another.
12:30<krinn>well, you ai must choose a better engine, and it's predictible what engine will replace what other engine...
12:30<Zuu>I will probably encode a replace order in the vehicle name and send them to depot :-)
12:31<@planetmaker>krinn, how is that predictable?
12:31<@planetmaker>do you (or an AI) know future engines?
12:31<krinn>because you need a way to filter & pickup an engine for a cargo...
12:31<krinn>nah, not reading futur :)
12:32<krinn>i can send you the file that handle that part zuu if you wish have a look
12:38<krinn>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/796f4cca3e6c/entry/handler/vehiclehandler.nut lookout for the function cCarrier::VehicleIsTop
12:38<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r22125 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Fix (r9162)[FS#4528]: The animation-ness of two goldmine tiles were swapped, causing the wheeltower to not work properly, and the bottom corner to show the wrong sprite.
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12:43<frosch123>all of you should defintely play more arctic :p
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12:44<@planetmaker>frosch123, why? :-)
12:45<@planetmaker>(yes, it's probably my favourite climate) ;-)
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12:46<@Terkhen>I usually play arctic too
12:47<__ln__>i only live in the arctic
12:47<frosch123>there has been a half house for 13000 revisions on the gold mine (unless you play ogfx)
12:48<@planetmaker>yeah :-) And opengfx has a gold mine bug, too :-P
12:49<@planetmaker>and that's as bad as the half house, too ;-)
12:50<@peter1138>does that bugfix 'break' ogfx? :D
12:51<@planetmaker>I didn't yet test
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12:53<dihedral>@logs
12:53<@DorpsGek>dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
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12:57<dihedral>whatever happened there
13:01<@planetmaker>a rice bag fell over
13:02<@planetmaker>a butterfly flapped
13:02<@planetmaker>thus a hurricane evolved
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13:17<dihedral>planetmaker, and managed to kill my server? yeah right :-P
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13:19<dihedral>"received signal 15" is what i found in the logs
13:19<@peter1138>Regular kill
13:20<dihedral>in all logs?
13:20<dihedral>i fail to call it regular :-P
13:20<@peter1138>As in kill -15 :S
13:20<dihedral>yes
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13:20<@peter1138>Stupid laptop... 100% CPU to play a video on YouTube :S
13:21<dihedral>i think i'll move away from that provider
13:21<dihedral>flash!
13:21<@peter1138>HTML5!
13:21<dihedral>ohhh
13:21<dihedral>not good
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13:24<@peter1138>Something like 10% was PA, 25% Xorg, and the rest to the browser...
13:24<dihedral>hehe - at least you know what you need to kill
13:25<krinn>the computer ?
13:25<@peter1138>Yeah...
13:25<@peter1138>Nothing was hung, it's just ... slow :S
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13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: translators * r22126 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 40 changes by Company_director
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: danish - 19 changes by beruic
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frisian - 142 changes by Taeke
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: malay - 3 changes by toadhall
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14:48<krinn>zuu ?
14:50<Zuu>yes
14:53<krinn>i've reeanble the upgrade to vehicle
14:53<krinn>i was bug by the vehicle keep waiting in depot
14:53<krinn>but the solve was so easy (i've remove the rename vehicle for depot check)
14:54<krinn>check your vehicle in depot: if you don't what it's doing here: sold it, if it's too old, replace it, if it have a better version, it's there for upgrade
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14:55<Zuu>I have a system where I store extended connection/vehicle state in the vehicle name.
14:55<krinn>i could be false: like it is there because not making money & you will buy new version if one exist... but it will do the job
14:55<Zuu>Vehicles wihich are named "suspended" are for example not sold even if they stay stoped in a depot. Instead they indicate that a connection has been suspended due to zero supply.
14:55<krinn>oh, i've done that too, i was tagging them
14:56<krinn>and you keep them getting old, paying maintenance... for suspend vehicle?
14:57<Zuu>When I send vehicles for selling, I rename them to "sell" and remove all orders from them apart from a goto (and stop in) depot order.
14:57<krinn>i've done that too, i was getting mad at just sending it to depot, while with order it really goes to depo
14:58<Zuu>A suspension may for example happen if a connection get its supply from a secondary industry that has a production stop. (one possible reason for this is that the vehicles of this connection is blocking the entrance to the station for the supply to the industry in question)
14:59<Zuu>If I would not have a mechanism to step of from secondary industries when they drop to zero production, that could grid lock the entire industry and cause loss to my AI.
14:59<krinn>i've solve that, but you must check your station for it
15:00<krinn>but you can trigger it if you found vehicle loosing money if you don't activly watch stations
15:00<Zuu>I keep fairly detailed statistics over my stations.
15:02<Zuu>about 4-5 long-term mean values related to the usage of the stations.
15:02<krinn>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/91d2e6d03e15/entry/handler/checks.nut
15:03<krinn>look at GetCargoListAcceptAtTile
15:08<Zuu>... a function that returns the cargo types that a truck stop at a given tile would accept ...
15:09<Zuu>please be aware that a non-uniform station works different with respect to cargo acceptance and cargo supply.
15:09<Zuu>(supply to the station that is)
15:09<krinn>that's only for road station, restrict the its radius
15:10<krinn> /the/to
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15:10<Zuu>So you never expand your road stations?
15:10<krinn>yes, but with road station ^^
15:10<krinn>actually, i don't and i will not do mix them
15:10<Zuu>you still have missed some parts if you don't work on the station as a whole.
15:11<krinn>will use all (even boats looks boring as hell), but i don't mix them
15:11<Zuu>I don't remember which that work as a rectangle and not. But one of them form a rectangle and one is just a buffer zone around each station part.
15:12<Zuu>You'll find out the details on the wiki.
15:12<krinn>ok, will have a look
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15:13<mrfrenzy_>!dl osx
15:13<Zuu>There is probably also a implementation in SuperLib.
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15:14<krinn>that bot is a bit rude, a simple message would have done it
15:15<@planetmaker>it's a sort-of running gag
15:16<krinn>oh
15:16<Zuu>There is a SuperLib::Station::IsCargoAccepted(station_id, cargo_id), not sure if there is a reverse function somewhere.
15:17<krinn>i have one working fine, i will kept it and adapt to my others transport type
15:17<krinn>as long as i don't mix, i'll be fine
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15:56<plisman>All pictures of Shakira and Pique's dinner on Sunday, published by a group of fans to blow the exclusive Shakira ... http://tinyurl.com/4pfu6hn
15:57<@planetmaker>@kban plisman
15:57-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!plisman@33.Red-88-7-209.staticIP.rima-tde.net] by DorpsGek
15:57-!-plisman was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [planetmaker]
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16:50<Wolf01>'night
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16:55<frosch123>the 4000th suggestion is boring
16:57<DanMacK>There isn't one according to my system, still 3999
16:58<frosch123>so, one of us cannot read or count?
17:00<@planetmaker>3999 is what my browser tells me
17:01*DanMacK thinks of what to post :P
17:01<@SmatZ>4000 threads, 38658 posts
17:01<@SmatZ>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=55 shown here
17:02<frosch123>anyway, he is suggesting to implement tooltips
17:03<frosch123>pff, i even considered to implement number 4000 :p
17:03<@SmatZ>:)
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: then you're lucky it was such an easy one :p
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>so now really... who told me age cargo wasn't run for loading trains?
17:09<frosch123>no idea, not me :)
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>i can't find any such statement in the log... but maybe my grep-fu is not working
17:11<frosch123>if (_age_cargo_skip_counter == 0) v->cargo.AgeCargo(); <- run svn blame on that line
17:12<@SmatZ>I think it will blame me
17:12<@SmatZ>but if it will, it was just a codechange
17:12<frosch123>yup
17:14<@SmatZ>am I responsible for breaking something by that codechange?
17:14<frosch123>anyway, svn blame is actually wasted time. the same code is also in ottd 0.1
17:14<frosch123>SmatZ: no, it always was that way
17:15<@SmatZ>ok :)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>then why do i so firmly beleive i was told differently?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>i certainly didn't make this up
17:16<frosch123>i have been playing for ages to always put at least three trains on every line
17:16<frosch123>even if they are really short
17:16<frosch123>like 3 wagons or so
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17:26<Ammler>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/opengfx-nightly-r611.zip <-- could someone else test this baseset and check if the last plains are there?
17:27<Ammler>planes*
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17:33<JamesG>I'll test
17:36<JamesG>Quite a few have no graphics
17:37<JamesG>They don't appear in the menu, but they do on the map
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17:40<Mazur>Is SH40 the only regular train in the default train set? Or have all other trains expired adn am I not seeing them because of that? (It's 2197)
17:41<JamesG>Trains look normal to me
17:42<Mazur>Then it must be the year of this Sandbox.
17:43<Ammler>planetmaker: JamesG confirmed my issue ;-)
17:43<JamesG>None of the vehicles expired when I tested it
17:43*Mazur is talking about 1.1.0-rc5, b.t.w.
17:43<JamesG>I tested with 1.1.0-beta5
17:44<Mazur>Just realised my question crosstalks with Ammlers.
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17:45<Mazur>Ok, I'll have to make a fresh sandbox, then.
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17:46<@planetmaker>thx for checking, JamesG
17:46<Mazur>Or rather, a range of them for different purposes. :-)
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17:48<Eddi|zuHause>there is no rc5
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>either beta5 or rc1
17:51<Mazur>That's more like it.
17:51<Mazur>rc1
17:52<Mazur>Release Candidate 1.
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>yea, we do know what rc stands for :)
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>the end of the world is nigh...
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>they want to restart the LHC
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18:04<Mazur>I was demonstrating, Eddi|zuHause. that I also knew.
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18:05<Mazur>Far be it for me, to try and expain basic OpenTTD matters to anyone here.
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18:16<Zuu>Hmm, NoCAB is spending 50-100% more money on construction and vehicles than CluelessPlus, but CluelessPlus is making slightly more profit and is piling up money. What is better? :-)
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18:22<Zuu>hmm, and now NoCab start to roll out its rails...
18:23<krinn>imo, spending money = more money earn and less chance to bankrupt with poor routes
18:24<krinn>but it cost more, because more chances to find a bad routes and loose money
18:30<Mazur>Spending (wisely) is future income.
18:31<Mazur>The early gain is often in vain.
18:31<krinn>told that to convoy :)
18:31<Mazur>(Durtch proverb)
18:32<krinn>one take is better than two you could have (french one)
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18:38<krinn>AIDate.GetMonth return 0-11 ?
18:39<zydeco>good night everyone
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20:15<supermop>hello
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20:20<krinn>hi
20:20<supermop>how is it going?
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21:50<nicfer1>hi
21:54<nicfer1>did anyone ever think of a trainset with no 'arbitrary' max speed for trains?
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21:55<supermop>you mean just use the horse power to calculate how fast it can go?
21:56<nicfer1>horse power, tractive effort and weight basically
21:56<supermop>there is also air drag
21:56<nicfer1>and wagon's speed limits
21:56<supermop>conceivably, if the wagons have a limited speed, so would te locomotive
21:57<supermop>for example, the redline of the engine, or the point at which the wheels melt
21:57<nicfer1>that would become the 'new' speedlimit for locomotives
21:58<krinn>going fine thanks nicfer1 :P (what a late reply)
21:58<supermop>yeah I think people has discussed it before
21:58<krinn>hu, /nicfer1/supermop
21:58<supermop>*have
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21:59<supermop>in 2cc i belive the wagons have no hard limit on speed,
21:59<supermop>just a design speed
21:59<supermop>which they can operate above, but at increased running cost
22:01<supermop>i guess you could imagine 'Rocket' being pushed by an HST at 125 mph
22:02<nicfer1>that way, players will need more planning on how to build the trains so they're fast without making them too expensive to mantain
22:02<supermop>which would cause pretty severe damage to rocket, but at least it would be going that fast
22:03<supermop>the problem is,
22:03<supermop>you often have no way to force a train to drive slower than its potential speed
22:04<supermop>so if a train can easily do 120 mph, but is more expensive to run over 100,
22:04<nicfer1>maglev wouldn't have those 'fixed' limit speeds, or maybe have a very high one
22:04<supermop>there is no way to force it to run at exactly 100
22:05<supermop>if the maglev went fast enough, either the magnetic coils in the track would burn out, or the front f the train would ablate off
22:06<supermop>we could just use 'c' as a hard speed limit, with exponential running cost as one approaces c
22:09<nicfer1>speaking of maglev, I find it somehow 'too much railway change'
22:09<supermop>So have many national networks,
22:09<krinn>or do like in life: increase speed = increase running costs because of decrease reliability
22:10<supermop>currently one one maglev line earns any revenue
22:10<supermop>*only
22:10<nicfer1>I mean, in year 2000 you get monorail, you upgrade all your network only for finding that in 2020 you have to upgrade again to maglev
22:11<supermop>well you could get monorail in 1960, if someone wanted to make an Alweg set
22:11<supermop>but monorail was never intended to be a heavy rail replacement
22:12<nicfer1>in that point I like more the NuTracks system
22:18<nicfer1>and I think one railset changed maglev to be pax-based rather than all-cargos-lightning-transport
22:22<supermop>any set could do that
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23:16<nicfer1>it was on ttdpatch where you could configure maglev trains to run on monorail, isn't it?
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23:27<supermop>it would be possible in ottd as well if someone were to make the appropriate newgrf
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23:28<+glx>openttd can have maglev and monorail at the same time, but as ttdpatch can't most newgrf provide only one type
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 22 00:00:40 2011