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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-02-24

---Logopened Thu Feb 24 00:00:42 2011
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01:45<@Terkhen>good morning
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01:58<CIA-11>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22136 /trunk/src/core/ (pool_func.cpp pool_type.hpp): -Fix (r22112): Silence compiler warning about non-virtual destructor
01:58<@planetmaker>moin andythenorth
02:00*planetmaker ponders and OpenGFX+ houses which - for a starter - only modifies the default properties of houses without giving them new graphics
02:00<@planetmaker>so that they then might accept food or coal or alike
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02:21<andythenorth>planetmaker: sounds good
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02:34<@Terkhen>hmm... will the cargos be configurable?
02:36*andythenorth ponders a town newgrf that does something with acceptance of base set houses
02:36<@planetmaker>Terkhen: partially that's possible. Fully... it's missing gui support on the openttd side
02:37<@planetmaker>dword2label ;-)
02:37<@planetmaker>enter the label as decimal number and it's feasible
02:38<@Terkhen>hmmm... so the missing part is converting text such as (COAL) into something the NewGRF can understand? still it would require users to know about cargo labels
02:38<@planetmaker>Terkhen: yes, it would. But that'd be an advanced setting for those who know
02:39<@planetmaker>one could combine a selection of default and a 2nd param which is user-configurable that way
02:39<@planetmaker>and use the latter only when set
02:39<@Terkhen>yes, for normal users a selection of common presets would do
02:39<@planetmaker>it would also help supermob's depot grf
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02:43<andythenorth>he comes, he goes :P
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02:55*Terkhen wonders how can he have very low connectivity when he's at 2m from the access point
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03:08<@planetmaker>Terkhen, remove your signal attenuator ;-)
03:10<@Terkhen>it's probably the access point fault, usually I don't have problems
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04:20<zydeco>good morning
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04:28<@planetmaker>moin zydeco
05:03<@peter1138>weird. all the irc channels i'm on are idle.
05:07<V453000>same here. everybody died probably
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05:11<@Terkhen>I'm writing documentation, which is more or less the same thing than dying
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05:27<andythenorth>it's oh so quiet
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05:30<Vikthor>Maybe everybody else had also been writing documentation ;)
05:30<zydeco>I'm implementing CJK input in mac os x
05:31<zydeco>but it only works on 10.6 or later
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05:37<@Terkhen>that sounds boring too
05:46<zydeco>there's some code from mozilla
05:47<zydeco>nsAutoRetainCocoaObject kungFuDeathGrip(self);
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06:01<Eddi|zuHause>large town houses built before 1960 (value open to discussion) should accept coal
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>and maybe small town houses accept wood?
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06:02<Eddi|zuHause>nah, that's silly
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>maybe large town houses before 1850 accept wood?
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06:09*andythenorth wishes there were interesting disasters
06:09<andythenorth>and that they were scaled according to the amount of money you have
06:09<andythenorth>"gangsters demand protection money - 50% of net income"
06:09<andythenorth>"proceed to old kent road"
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06:14<andythenorth>NewDisasters :P
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06:43<Eddi|zuHause>clearly you need a station spread of 32768 on a 32768^2 map
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06:45<zydeco>so you only need one station?
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>only one station won't work, you need two stations, but you can send the train with cargo both ways
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06:54<@planetmaker>zydeco, that's fine enough for a start
06:54<@planetmaker>though a 10.4+ implementation would be preferrable ;-)
06:55<zydeco>I'm trying that now
06:55<@planetmaker>be sure to attach the patch to the appropriate flyspray entry :-)
06:55<zydeco>of course
06:55<@planetmaker>I'll gladly go over it
06:56<zydeco>the 10.6+ code is nice and clean
06:56<zydeco>but the other one is quite ugly
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06:56<@planetmaker>you could also for discussion purposes attach both ;-)
06:56*andythenorth_ should upgrade to 10.6 :P
06:56<andythenorth_>and also learn to speak CJK
06:56<@planetmaker>andythenorth_, wait for 10.7 ;-)
06:57<andythenorth_>I've never been behind the curve before
06:57<andythenorth_>must be a sign of maturity for either me, or the OS :P
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07:02<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
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07:19<@planetmaker>hi Wolf01
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08:00*andythenorth_ is considering vcs for a new project
08:00<andythenorth_>how does openttd use both hg and svn?
08:00<andythenorth_>can commits be made via hg, or svn only?
08:00<+glx>andythenorth_: and git
08:00<andythenorth_>git is on our list too
08:00<+glx>commits are via svn only
08:00<andythenorth_>so git & hg are checkout only?
08:01<+glx>kind of synchronised clones
08:01<andythenorth_>anyone care to comment on their preferred vcs of hg / git / svn?
08:01<+glx>it depends on what you exactly need
08:02<andythenorth_>distributed vcs preferred by me
08:02<andythenorth_>I dislike svn
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08:02<andythenorth_>it doesn't encourage atomic commits
08:03<andythenorth_>is migrating from svn to hg / git later a viable plan for a new project?
08:03<andythenorth_>or does that lose revision history?
08:04<@Terkhen>mercurial has tools that allow you to import that, git probably has them too
08:05<@planetmaker>the question is: why would you start with one and migrate later - if you know it already now?
08:05<andythenorth_>the rest of the team don't know hg
08:05<andythenorth_>or git
08:06<andythenorth_>and we don't want to risk our project on new tools
08:06<@planetmaker>well. If they use tortoiseSVN they'll find it easy to use TortoiseHG
08:06<andythenorth_>they're more command-line driven :D
08:06<@planetmaker>good :-)
08:06<andythenorth_>and it's a question of deploying production code to multiple boxes
08:06<andythenorth_>in a managed way
08:06<andythenorth_>with a lot of python packages in play
08:07<@planetmaker>point of, say, hg vs. svn: with hg you can do offline commits. With svn you can't
08:07<andythenorth_>I know
08:07<andythenorth_>I like that
08:07<@Terkhen>also hg usually works faster because of that
08:07<@planetmaker>It should not be a problem, if the people know svn
08:07<@planetmaker>then they could just as well use hg. I *think*.
08:07<@planetmaker>But... easy to say that I know and use both
08:08<@planetmaker>so it depends on other boundary conditions
08:10<@planetmaker>the "backdraw" of hg over svn is that only the hash is unique. The revision number is not necessarily the same on your and my machine
08:10<@planetmaker>but that's the case for every dvcs
08:11<zydeco>why is there a quickdraw window driver
08:11<@planetmaker>why not?
08:12<zydeco>my cjk input doesn't work with it :p
08:12<zydeco>and it also doesn't work in full screen
08:12<@planetmaker>also not the 10.6 only version?
08:12<zydeco>no, full screen captures the whole screen
08:12<zydeco>so no windows can show
08:18<@peter1138>planetmaker, drawback :S
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08:50<@planetmaker>peter1138, well, it is. A simple number is easier to grasp on first sight than a rather lengthy hash
08:50<@planetmaker>IMHO it doesn't outweigh any of the other advantages of dvcs, though
08:52<@peter1138>planetmaker, as opposed to... "backdraw" ?
08:52<@peter1138>sorry, i didn't actually read what you were talking about, only picked up on the word :)
08:52<@peter1138>(and i like git)
08:53<@peter1138>the hash *is* the 'revision number'
08:55<blathijs>planetmaker: Btw, if offline commits is the only thing you want for svn, try svk :-)
08:55<@peter1138>svk... uck.
08:56<blathijs>planetmaker: (I am totally fan of using hg, or even better, git, for a ton of additional reasons)
09:00<@planetmaker>blathijs, peter1138: I'm not advising svn here ;-) - but it's something which can be a (weak) argument.
09:01<blathijs>What I've always wandered, is why hg didn't just use incremental revision numbers per branch
09:02<blathijs>that is, number each revision by the number of commits since the root commit
09:03<blathijs>so they are the same in different repository, but there might be double revisions in different branches
09:03<Mazur>Id there anywhere a list of webpage detailing the order in which certain NewGRFs must be to work well?
09:04<andythenorth>fish cargo is a total winner in FIRS now
09:04<andythenorth>barely any infrastructure needed
09:04<blathijs>but I guess such a number gets complicated when branching and merging
09:04<andythenorth>high paying
09:05<andythenorth>@seen frosch123
09:05<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 14 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <frosch123> will take a look the groundsprite case later
09:05<@planetmaker>blathijs, but it counts things from the first revision onward. But having double, tripple or whatever version numbers would be quite bad
09:06<@planetmaker>I could after all merge a number of (previously) independent projects - what then?
09:06<@planetmaker>hi Belugas
09:07<@Belugas>mister bright planetmaker!
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09:55<Eddi|zuHause>merging branches takes the maximum their respective "sequential commit numbers", and adds 1
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>i see no immediate problem with that
10:03<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, but with hg I can also merge two unreleated repositories. As such I'd get n + m + 1 as the new revision number; thus one repo would need to be re-numbered.
10:04<@planetmaker>like, for example, where the nforenum repository was merged into the grfcodec one.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: what would make pulling from a new repo different from just creating a new branch?
10:06<@planetmaker>the lack of heredity
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes, so both can start counting at 0... i don't see the problem...
10:09<@planetmaker>and the whole point was: having a revision number twice is probably not a good idea. Thus one of those would need re-numbering upon a merge
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>and i said, it wouldn't need renumbering...
10:11<@planetmaker>if you accept double revision numbers
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10:17<zydeco>ok, I managed to get CJK working on 10.4+
10:18<zydeco>on 10.6+, the input window appears under the current field, on older versions it's global
10:25<zydeco>oh, I must still test things with that evil backquote key
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11:13*ZirconiumX is annoyed
11:14<ZirconiumX>I still can't find LordAro
11:19<dihedral>@seen LordAro
11:19<@DorpsGek>dihedral: LordAro was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <LordAro> hmmm:
11:20<dihedral>what's wrong with you? cant he take a break?
11:20<ZirconiumX>that's almost 2 weeks since I've last seen him
11:21<ZirconiumX>a very long break at that
11:21<@planetmaker>I have _seen_ only a few people which lurk in this channel ;-)
11:21<@Terkhen>he's always active at the forums
11:21<@planetmaker>and if I want to get hold of a person urgently who is not here... I write a forum mail or e-mail.
11:21<ZirconiumX>happy now?
11:22<@planetmaker>sorry, no. I'd be happy, if I had these exams already off my desk
11:22*ZirconiumX moves the exams off the desk
11:23*ZirconiumX puts them on the floor
11:23<ZirconiumX>happy now?
11:23<@planetmaker>hmpf ;-)
11:23<__ln__>tilt the table to 45 degrees for a while
11:23<@planetmaker>__ln__, that'd interrupt communications probably quite hard ;-)
11:23<@planetmaker>though... computer is on other desk :-P
11:23*ZirconiumX turns __ln__'s table 45 degrees
11:25*ZirconiumX has a unique service, for making people laugh
11:26<dihedral>depends around which axis you want to turn the table :-P
11:26<ZirconiumX>turns table 45degrees to the X, 45 degrees to the Y, 45 degrees to the Z
11:27<ZirconiumX>45 degrees truthwise
11:27*dihedral tries to picture .....
11:29<ZirconiumX>dihedral probably fails
11:33*Belugas loves cryptic error messages : "Exception : The I/O operation has been aborted because of either a thread exit or an application request."
11:34<@Belugas>good luck finding who what where or when
11:34<@peter1138>i like "An error occurred: Success"
11:34<ZirconiumX>mkdir yellow_pages; cat yellow_pages
11:35<ZirconiumX>yellow_pages: Is a directory
11:36<fonsinchen>Well, that's what the cat tells you about yellow pages. What's the problem? ;)
11:38<ZirconiumX>cat "can of food"
11:38<ZirconiumX>cat: cannot open can of food
11:38<ZirconiumX>the cat must be hungry then
11:39<CIA-11>OpenTTD: smatz * r22137 /trunk/config.lib: -Codechange: enable -Wnon-virtual-dtor for all GCC versions
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11:54<@Belugas>hehe :)
11:55<ZirconiumX>(Pronounced C more or less)
11:57*zydeco likes #pragma dwim
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12:05<ZirconiumX>this would make UNIX interesting
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12:45<rane>ehh two "bumps" on mainline and i am getting jams entire game
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12:46<@planetmaker>use realistic acceleration
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12:50<rane>is there any good site with fairly fresh savegames?
12:51<rane>i feel my ttd kungfu is gone and i'd like to refresh it somehow
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12:52<rane>for example for the love of god i can't figure out how long my trains should be:-)
12:52<rane>i remember building 6 tiles long when i last played but that doesn't work now at all, they wait ages for pickup and businesses close down because deliveries are twice a year only
12:54<Ammler>rane: use timetable instead full load
12:54<Ammler>if the 2nd train arrives, let the 1st one go, also if not completely full
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>you start out with small trains, and make them bigger as the industries grow
13:01<rane>i'll try that
13:01<rane>without timetables i typically can't go beyond 80% delivered and that doesn't encourage growth at all
13:01<rane>final thing i struggle with, i have no idea how to organize priority for mainline with path signals
13:02<rane>only way i can figure is trying to let mainline train reserve more track prior to crossing
13:02<rane>but that ruins my signal every 2 tiles rule and trains behind prioritised train start stopping causing even more trouble
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>afair you just need above 67% for increased growth chance
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>path signals don't really have a way of doing priorities
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>maybe check this out:
13:05<rane>there could be "priority" variants for normal signals
13:05<rane>as a feature
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13:14<CIA-11>OpenTTD: yexo * r22138 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: skipping only the invalid part of an action14 failed, the rest of the action was skipped instead
13:14<rane>:-) it's still developed!
13:14<ZirconiumX>Might as well face it you're addicted to vi!
13:15<rane>"You won't look at emacs, no you'd just rather die"
13:15<rane>totally agree
13:22<ZirconiumX>Where is nano and ed placed then?
13:26<rane>wow realistic acceleration is awesome
13:28<rane>but i need to rebuild crossings to avoid double 45s :-)
13:29<supermop>its worth it
13:32<Ammler>well, double 45s is also realistic, trains do slow down on short curves
13:34<rane>i'd expect that yes
13:34<rane>when i move to timetables, i should stop using "wait for full", right?
13:37<supermop>although you might want to when you are testing out a route
13:38<supermop>to get a rough idea how long a full load takes for a particular train
13:38<@planetmaker>if there's enough cargo waiting it'll load full anyway
13:39<supermop>I usually spend about 1 game year on a new route figuring out the optimal timetable
13:39<supermop>occasionally it has taken much loger
13:40<rane>game goes so fast
13:40<@planetmaker>doesn't really matter. you can play endlessly
13:41<supermop>on one line (before the departure board patch existed),
13:42<rane>what's departure board patch?
13:42<rane>is that where "leave when another train arrives" is?
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>no, has nothing to do with each other
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13:43<supermop>i had a line i started planning in the 60s
13:44<supermop>double track, 5 stations about equally spaced, not too far apart
13:44<supermop>and then a 6th station much further away
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: translators * r22139 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt unfinished/frisian.txt):
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frisian - 42 changes by Taeke
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: slovenian - 30 changes by
13:45<supermop>most trains terminated at station 5, but every 3rd train continued to 6
13:45<supermop>where it would lay up after un loading
13:45<supermop>on a side track,
13:46<supermop>then return to 6 to load after the next train unloaded
13:46<supermop>about 3 month overall cycle in the timetables in game
13:47<supermop>started operation in the 70s with manley morell dmus, had to upgrade to dash dmus in the middle of planning
13:47<supermop>eventually got it all sorted aroung 2020
13:48<supermop>but was like the satisfaction of watching a mechanical clock when it was all done
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13:50<rane>where's the trigger to leave when a new train of same schedule arrives?
13:51<supermop>there is none
13:51<supermop>you just have to figure it out
13:51<rane>but first traffic jam and it all is ruined
13:51<supermop>at least i am not away of any
13:51<rane>because i need to launch them at specific times so they don't bunch together
13:52<supermop>you can do that with a very specific timetable
13:52<rane>i have a lot of random traffic dumped into one 2+2 line that takes everything everywhere
13:58<supermop>one approach would be to use one track in each direction just for timetabled traffic
13:58<supermop>so that you do not have to try to schedule everything all at once
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13:59<rane>and it really works better than "wait for full"?
14:01<supermop>depends, there is a huge commitment you have to put in
14:01<supermop>but i have found that you need less 'bandwith' on your lines if they are well timetabled
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14:13<rane>i don't think i will be able to make it perfect but i plan using it more now
14:14<rane>especially that jams on my "bumps" are gone with new accel. model
14:14<supermop>I find it fun in itself
14:14<rane>lots of micro:-\
14:15<supermop>often in games, there is no real challenge to make money, but as your network grows, optimizing it gets more difficult
14:17<rane>i fail terribly at optimization
14:19<@Alberth>so OpenTTD seems like a good challenge to you then ;)
14:21<rane>my junctions look like a bowl of spaghetti half-eaten by two pitbulls
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14:24<SmatZ>hehe, AD to "make your computer faster in 2 minutes!" at tt-forums :p
14:24<SmatZ>hmm I have to download some exe...
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>don't worry... when did something bad ever happen from downloading an exe
14:26<SmatZ>hmm it doesn't run under wine :/
14:26<SmatZ>hehe :)
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14:28<dihedral>SmatZ, :-)
14:29<SmatZ>hello dih :)
14:29<dihedral>hey ho :-)
14:31<@Alberth>rane: but those are much more fun to make
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14:32<zydeco>there, I put my patch on
14:32<zydeco>with screenshots :)
14:32<rane>i have like half clover leaves with two extra tracks wrapped on the outside of everything and now due to realistic acceleration i extended clover leave exits even further to avoid 2x 45 turns and then added some extra tracks beyond those extended exits
14:33<rane>it's kind of amusing how poorly it looks
14:33<rane>and how well it works
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14:35<Eddi|zuHause>"Dieses Video ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar."
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>go fuck yourselves!
14:36<rane>foxy proxy!
14:37<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: torrentz :-)
14:39<rane>or get a vpn
14:39<rane>it's a duty to get around their silly restrictions, show them they can't stop the internet;-)
14:40<dihedral>zydeco, your patch should perhaps also take care of the requirements?
14:40<dihedral>i.e. add the notice to some txt file?
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14:42<Eddi|zuHause>for proper timetabling it would be immensely useful to know the figures like "x km/h equals y tiles per {day|100 ticks}"
14:43<rane>i used autofill + 20 days to account for potential breakdowns
14:44<rane>which by the way are irritating as hell
14:45*Alberth buys Eddi approx 2000 tiles straight track
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14:54<gerard>OpenTTD version 1.0.5 Win7 64bit, how can I enable tooltips on hover?
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i mean they are static values throughout the game, they could be documented somewhere
14:54<gerard>right clicking feels a bit weird
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14:54<@Terkhen>gerard: you can't, that feature is only present in 1.1.0
14:55<gerard>ah ok, I'll switch to testing then
14:57<gerard>ok, seems to work, thanks
14:58<gerard>1s is still a bit too long I think though
14:58<gerard>would be nice to also have the choice for 0 and 0.5 s
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15:15<zydeco>why does GHK_CRASH exist?
15:16<zydeco>oh, it only exists in debug
15:18<zydeco>it was interfering with entering text using unicode hex input
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>HAHAHA :p
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sorry. but that really is funny :)
15:25<zydeco>but who would ever want such a hotkey_
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15:31<@Terkhen>heh :D
15:32<@Terkhen>new answer to all questions: "to do X, press ALT+0"
15:32<zydeco>but it's only active in debug builds
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15:39<Ammler>what is the difference to the money cheat?
15:44<+glx>not the same hotkey
15:45<rane>what kind of maps do you play single player?
15:45<rane>128x512 is the most popular setting?
15:45<V453000>512*512 is best imo
15:46<rane>it's gigantic
15:46<rane>it's 2000s before i connect coal:-|
15:46<Markk>I usually play on 1024x2048 or 2048x2048
15:46<supermop>64x64 can be very fun too
15:46<rane>got saves? ;-)
15:47<Markk>Not on this unit.
15:47<rane>there's 800 coal mines on 2048^2
15:48<rane>3 trains per each that's 2500 trains alone for coal
15:48<rane>you connect all to one power station?
15:49<rane>do you have buses in all 1000 towns? :-)
15:49<rane>i have hard time imagining to play on such a scale
15:50<Vikthor>that's why various daylenght patches exist
15:50<rane>daylength patches?
15:51<@Alberth>rane: <-- look here for such games
15:51<@Terkhen>^ don't look too much at once there or you might get a headache :)
15:51<Vikthor>rane: patches that make one day last longer, slowing the date
15:52<rane>i'd want such a patch actually
15:52<Vikthor>*slowing the change of game
15:52<rane>time really flies here
15:52<rane>and i don't want tgv too soon
15:52<@Terkhen>hmm... this reminds me I wanted to check one of those self regulating networks
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>i've grown fond of daylength 8
15:55<@Terkhen>too complicated for me :P
15:56<Vikthor>yeah, daylength 8 is nice
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>for me it's the right balance for getting time to actually connect larger parts of the map, but still have some technological advancement
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is, the original daylength is so tightly intertwined with the game mechanics, that no clean way to introduce daylength exists...
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16:03<Zuu>The recent change of the opcodes budget has probably broken the break on log string feature.
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>how so?
16:07<Zuu>Since break on log string does not work, and that change is the only one I have seen recently that could be the reason.
16:07<Zuu>At least without taking a lookn in the code.
16:07<@Terkhen>does it work correctly in the revision before that?
16:07<Zuu>Not sure, but it did work just a few days ago.
16:08<Zuu>break on log string works such that whenever a log string matches it uses up all opcodes.
16:08<Zuu>It is probably the formula there for how many opcodes to use that needs updating.
16:09<Zuu>It resides in InvalidateData of ai debug window.
16:09<Zuu>well, maybe not there, but the call that you can trace to find where it happens.
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16:16<Zuu>Line 670 in ai_instance.cpp it is.
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16:17<vb>how do i remove a wagon and not replace it with anything?
16:17<vb>i got lots of trains with caboose, which i don't need anymore
16:18<Zuu>Find a NewGRF with a very short wagon to replace it with?
16:18<Zuu>Or wait for consists to be implemented.
16:19<Zuu>A consist = a sequence of wagons
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16:19<Zuu>Thus with consits + reworked autoreplace it will be possible to define changes from one consist to another.
16:20<Zuu>But it is all just ideas so far.
16:20<vb>is there no other possible way?
16:20<frosch123>Zuu: it could as well be r22135
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16:21<Zuu>If you know C++, you could maybe hack togeather something that removes wagons with zero capacity and no power when trains visit depots.
16:21<frosch123>can you check which revision broke it?
16:21<Zuu>Sure, I'm currently compiling last rev to debug it.
16:21<@Terkhen>vb: I'm afraid there is no easy way to do that
16:21<@Terkhen>I would just send them all to depot and buy new ones, it's probably faster than replacing them one by one
16:23<rane>one thing i can't get around of
16:23<rane>when i use path signals and there's a traffic jam somewhere
16:23<rane>trains will flip around and travel wrong side
16:23<rane>is there a setting to prevent them from ever turning around?
16:23<rane>and just wait until i fix it?
16:25<Vikthor>yes, in 1.1.0-RC1 there is, I believe, Under vehicles, trains.
16:29<Ammler>vb, replace the engine with a double head and set "remove waggon", then replace the double head back to one head
16:30<vb>are you sure that's gonna work?
16:30<Ammler>if you replace a engine with a longer (double), it will automatically remove the last waggon
16:30<dihedral>visual basic?
16:30<Ammler>so the train lenght keeps the same
16:32<vb>i think i will just send to depot the trains that still have a caboose
16:33<Ammler>hmm, actually not sure, if those would be determined as waggons :-/
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>one could almost think the internet has some kind of humor:
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: sure it doesn't remove the first wagon?
16:35<Ammler>no :-)
16:35<Ammler>(was just an idea)
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16:48<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r22140 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix (r22135): I like the letter 'l' nevertheless. (Alberth)
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16:52<Zuu>planetmaker: Hmm, that r22135 looks like it is.
16:53<Zuu>Actually, for some log strings it does break, but not for others. Probably a result of the asyncronous execution.
16:53<@planetmaker>uhm, say what?
16:54<Zuu>r22135: "When commands need to invalidate windows, process these events asynchronously before the next redraw."
16:54<frosch123>Zuu: then add a "true" at the end of the right InvalidateWindowData :)
16:54<Zuu>That smells like something that could affect the break on log featur.
16:55<@planetmaker>well, I see that, but miss the context you refer to :-) - probably something I said some time ago and forgot again ;-)
16:55<Zuu>And hope that it does not reintroduce FS#4523 :-)
16:56<Zuu>planetmaker: sorry it was frosch123 who said it :-)
16:56<Zuu>22:20 CET
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17:00<frosch123> <- maybe that is enough
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17:05<Zuu>I'll test it.
17:05<Zuu>Lets hope I remember to reduce the map size this time :-)
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17:08<Chaot_s>sleep well Wolf01
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17:12<Zuu>frosch123: I've tested that change with the exact same AI code and test case that fails on last nightly, and it solves this problem.
17:12<frosch123>great :)
17:12<Zuu>I've tried 2-3 other cases but running an AI in debug mode is a great pain :-)
17:13<frosch123>i would not know how to test it :)
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17:14<Zuu>The OnInvalidate code in the AI debug window is fairly carefull with _current_company IIRC (it backs it up and restores it after executing its commands), so it should hopefully be safe.
17:14<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r22141 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_log.cpp: -Fix (r22135): AI breakpoints were broken at this point. (thanks Zuu)
17:15<Zuu>Thanks frosch123 :-)
17:15<frosch123>Zuu: it does not matter as long as the invalidation is not called from a command
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17:18<Chaot_s>hmm are there more different versions of openttd arround? i have been searching for some tips and stuff for openttd, and i see a lot op people mentioning openttd 1.5. are they all wrong and refering to openttd 1.0.5 or...
17:23<Zuu>1.5 does not exist, they are just lazy.
17:25<Zuu>There is 1.1-RC1 and last nightly build which are later versions that are available as pre-compiled builds.
17:25<Chaot_s>that clears a lot :D
17:25<Zuu>If you go to you see the last stable, testing and nightly version at the upper left of the website.
17:26<Zuu>(In the download links)
17:26<Chaot_s>it's not common to shorten version length's :D and indeed thats where i did see the 1.0.5 as the game mentions too :D
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17:27<Zuu>If you want more computer readable version info you can visit this file/page: :-)
17:27<Chaot_s>so it's them false shortning the version string :D
17:27<Zuu>You bet there were plennty of people that skipped to write the leading "0." part of the version string before 1.0 was released.
17:28<Chaot_s>lol :D that might have had some funny resultings whe 1.0 was released.
17:29<Chaot_s>yay! we have V1! ... some other person.. that was back in 199X
17:29<SmatZ>rather 2004 :p
17:29<Chaot_s>though thanks for clearing that up :D
17:29<SmatZ>openttd isn't far that old
17:30<Chaot_s>i didn't have a clue, the original game was.... somewhere 1999 or so i think :D
17:30<Zuu>More info about different version shemas used in OpenTTD:
17:31<Zuu>Though you could safely skip the part about MiniN as it is very old now.
17:31<SmatZ>Transport Tycoon (TT) and Transport Tycoon Deluxe (TTD) are computer games developed by Chris Sawyer and published by MicroProse in 1994 (TT), and 1995 (TTD).
17:34<Chaot_s>somehow i'm thinking of jumping in to the source code to start understanding the signals :D
17:35<Chaot_s>it somehow makes me think of a if / then / else idea....
17:35<SmatZ>Chaot_s: I am sure that would take a lot of time to understand things from the sources
17:35<Chaot_s>though everytime i think i know what they are doing, i mes up :D
17:35<SmatZ>the basics are simple
17:36<SmatZ>block signals, pre-signals, exit/combo-signals
17:36<Chaot_s>entry exit, combo path oneway path.
17:36<SmatZ>the other class is one/two-way PBS
17:37<Chaot_s>the entry to exit (one way i do understand)
17:40<Chaot_s>i just dont get the trick, it's something i'm missing somehow.
17:40<Chaot_s>may i post a picture and ask some feedback ( i know lots of rubish stuff in there :D
17:44<vb>i suppose so
17:48<@Terkhen>good night
17:48<Chaot_s>sleep wel Terkhen
17:48<Chaot_s>for example that.
17:49<Chaot_s>it does balance the trains of all availeble exit stations, and only feeds a train if can reach a free station.
17:50<Chaot_s>though why do i need a two way combo signal in the midle to make more trains enter the station.
17:50<Chaot_s>why is just one combo signal not working
17:50<vb>use path signals
17:50<Chaot_s>or am i just stupid :D and messed up thanks to asumptions made upon first time errors :D
17:50<vb>allways red ones
17:51<vb>and remove all of the lights infront of the station
17:51<vb>except the last one
17:51<vb>or so i would do
17:53<rane>on 64x64 i will ever only have 1 business of each type?
17:53<rane>can the close? can new ones open?
17:53<rane>will there ever be 2nd city?
17:54<Chaot_s>iirc you can enable some things in the cheat menu.
17:55<vb>Chaot_s, i'l show you what i mean
17:55<Chaot_s>okay thanx vb
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17:56<vb>this one
17:56<vb>that's how i would signal that station
17:56<Chaot_s>rane : advanced settings, economie, industries, you can enable some settings to allow multiple industries of the same type to be build, also you can set an option to alow you to build things.
17:57<vb>well, ofc, you can make the stations as long as you want
17:57<vb>or it could be even easyer
17:58<Chaot_s>hmm, i'm going to test that idea :D
17:58<vb>i think you should put another path signal with a normal signal behind him, before those 3 to 3 splitting lanes
17:58<vb>because otherwise it would take longer
17:59<vb>i'l show you another pic
17:59<Chaot_s>i'm building a somwhat stupid testcase... 120 trains station (stationsize is set to 64)
18:00<SmatZ>120 trains at once?
18:00<vb>this one is better i think
18:00<Chaot_s>and iwould like to make te signaling setup more advanced.
18:00<Chaot_s>though somehow they have some bounce effect i can't understand.
18:00<SmatZ>waiting space is always good
18:01<SmatZ><3 presignals :p
18:01<vb>the red only ones are presignals or pathsignals?
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18:01<Chaot_s>so there always needs to be a normal signal in front of thos to "split" the path to that destionation.
18:01<vb>whatever they are called
18:02<SmatZ>PBS are (almost) always red
18:02<vb>so it waits there
18:02<Chaot_s>this will work if there isn't a longer train ariving.
18:02<SmatZ>they get green only for a short moment when train s going to go through them
18:02<vb>if the first signal doesn't permit him to advance
18:02<Chaot_s>when the station is full (9 filled tracks) the train will que on the track with the shortest path...
18:03<Chaot_s>or am i wrong?
18:03<vb>i think there also needs to be 3 normal signals(1/line) where the tracks split for first time
18:03<Chaot_s>i could easely test that out on a trainstation with very long routes and about 200 trains sheduled to pass that station...
18:04<vb>you should
18:04<vb>test it out
18:04<Chaot_s>hope i'm not going to need to start stop all trains after that :d
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18:06<Chaot_s>most of the tests tries i did i ended up with a full station (slower exits than the feed could handle) and then a train that enters the first availeble track and waits til the train leaves.
18:07<Chaot_s>jamming the other 15 tracks that get cleared after that train :D
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18:08<vb>not good?
18:08<vb>show me a picture
18:10<Chaot_s>i'm curently modifying the station,
18:10<Chaot_s>that was what happens most of the times i tried using pats signals :D
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18:19<DanMacK>Hey all
18:24<vb>good night mates
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18:26<Chaot_s>need to go to. phone call bye!
18:26<Chaot_s>sorry :D
18:26<SmatZ>bye Chaot_s
18:26-!-Chaot_s is now known as chaot_s_afk
18:26<SmatZ>enjoy your call
18:26<chaot_s_afk>mot happy with it
18:26<SmatZ>chaot_s_afk: please don't use afk nicks
18:26<chaot_s_afk>just go afk?
18:26-!-chaot_s_afk is now known as Chaot_s
18:26<SmatZ>/away phone is fine
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19:03<rane>dammit, my only oil well closed
19:04<SmatZ>rane: playing temperate climate?
19:05<rane>which means my rafinery is down soon too
19:08<rane>can i like fund a business?
19:09<SmatZ>it's somewhere in the advanced settings
19:09<SmatZ>"primary industry construction ... no/prospecting/yes"
19:09<SmatZ>probably in economy/industry
19:12<rane>ouch 2.5 mil
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20:48<rane>how can i deliver 100% production from factory?
20:51<supermop>not sure that you can
20:53<rane>even if my train waits for cargo at all time, i can't get past 80%
20:53<rane>hence my question how to maximize it
20:53<supermop>i think you need 2 different stations
20:54<@Yexo>see to figure out how to get your station rating to 100%
20:55<supermop>not sure, but i think it avoids giving 100% to one station because then a competitor would never be able to get started at an industry no matter how well they serviced their station
20:55<@Yexo>that's untrue
20:56<supermop>maybe that is what locomotion does
20:56<supermop>not sure why it came to mind, but it seemed like a plausible reason
20:56<rane>so it's not just pure "delivered" :-)
20:57<@Yexo>without the "new vehicle bonus" and without any advertising you can get to 94%
20:58<@Yexo>rane: did you already built a statue in the town the station is in? that's the easiest way to raise the rating by 10%
21:01<rane>it's good to play a small map after all
21:01<rane>on a small maps it's harder to miss big things:-)
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21:22*DanMacK still prefers large maps
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22:03<rane>hard to make profit on a small map
22:04<rane>should have went 64x128 instead
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 25 00:00:42 2011