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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-03-08

---Logopened Tue Mar 08 00:00:16 2011
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02:17<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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02:39<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:19<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
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04:35*andythenorth wonders if station var 67 can detect a neighbouring industry tile
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04:41<@planetmaker>it can know via landscape class that there's an industry tile
04:41<@planetmaker>good morning all, also
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04:47*andythenorth had a clever idea about stations auto-orientating single platforms to industry
04:47<andythenorth>but it has at least one fail condition
04:47<andythenorth>if not more
04:48*andythenorth incidentally wonders if FIRS is 'done'
04:50<andythenorth>it plays ok in my current test game
04:50<andythenorth>first time it's really felt complete, with no glaring problems
04:51<@planetmaker>it's missing many graphics. But conceptually (gameplay) it feels quite fine to me
04:51<@planetmaker>Like all the snow :-)
04:51<andythenorth>and animation
04:52<andythenorth>it's missing two industries: recycling plant and guano mine
04:52<andythenorth>guano mine may not be needed due to introduction of lime kiln
04:56<@planetmaker>yes, and animation. But that's a matter of "how much do you want"
05:01<@Terkhen>IMO before starting with tedious stuff like animation it should get prolongated testing to make sure that the industries are not going to change
05:01<andythenorth>and find the bugs :P
05:03<@planetmaker>you certainly have a point there, Terkhen :-)
05:03<@planetmaker>animation could even be said to go into anything > 1.0 only
05:03<andythenorth>I don't expect many more changes to the core industries
05:03<andythenorth>I won't know too much until OpenTTD 1.1 gets released though
05:05<andythenorth>There are only 39 open tickets that aren't low priority or snow / animation / fences
05:05<andythenorth>'only' :P
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05:18<andythenorth>Terkhen: planetmaker
05:27<@Terkhen>hmm... isn't #2355 a duplicate of #2338? (or at least closely related to it)
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06:09*ZirconiumX is feeling slightly better
06:10<ZirconiumX>having my wound photographed at the local police station this afternoon
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07:21<DanMacK>Hey all
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07:58<andythenorth>I said FIRS might be 'done'
07:58<andythenorth>but actually...
07:59*V453000 cries for the supplies mechanics :p
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09:28<@Belugas>so, it was not 20cm that we received, but rather 25cm. big deal...
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09:36<__ln___>that's quite big
09:36<Sacro>that's what she said
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09:43*DanMacK rimshots
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11:33*andythenorth considers adding post offices to FIRS
11:33<andythenorth>and having houses accept Food
11:33<andythenorth>maybe a bad idea
11:34<@planetmaker>post offices would be ok. Houses not really
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11:34<@planetmaker>except you make it restaurants
11:35<andythenorth>post offices are probably redundant
11:35<andythenorth>assuming houses continue to accept / produce mail
11:36<@planetmaker>well, draw more houses ;-)
11:36<@planetmaker>I might then make a house set of it :-P
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11:38<andythenorth>FIRS needs some extra industry chain that appears ~1990s
11:38<andythenorth>can't involve a new cargo though :|
11:45<@planetmaker>that's the recycling plant
11:45<@planetmaker>and waste collection points
11:45<andythenorth>I'm not including waste cargo :)
11:45<andythenorth>it's very dull
11:46<andythenorth>recycling plant is just a shinier scrap yard
11:46<andythenorth>in fact...
11:46<andythenorth>maybe I should just upgrade the graphics over time :o
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13:26<@peter1138>WATCH THE LIZARD
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13:41<fonsinchen>uh, oh, no more table/settings.h ???!?
13:42<Yexo>it's all in table/*_settings.ini now
13:42<+glx>it's generated
13:42<Yexo>much better readable
13:43*fonsinchen reads the code and tries to find out where to put the cargodist settings
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13:43<Yexo>where were they previously?
13:44<Yexo>nvm, table/settings.ini is probably the right file
13:45<fonsinchen>Previously they were in table/settings.h as additional section "linkgraph", but I see now. Thanks.
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: translators * r22225 /trunk/src/lang/italian.txt:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-11>OpenTTD: italian - 6 changes by lorenzodv
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14:21<dihedral>JOHN-SHEPARD, i totally do not think the title is suitable to that thread
14:24<dihedral>iirc titles should be descriptive
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14:25<Bluelight>What do I type in a *.sh file to start OpenTTD server on Linux?
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14:27<dihedral>Bluelight, .sh are shell scripts
14:28<dihedral>^ click
14:28<Bluelight>I run a Minecraft server with a .sh file.. The command for starting the server is in that file.. I just select run in terminal
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14:29<dihedral>you want fish - learn how to use a fishing rod
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14:31<@Belugas>or be a beluga and catch them mouth wide open!
14:32<dihedral>they can 'fish' natively :-P
14:35<@Belugas>quite ;)
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14:42<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r22226 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: When autoreplace invalidates vehicle windows because the Vehicle index changed, use a better eye-catcher-'data' than 0 to identify them.
14:43<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r22227 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#4546-ish]: Call sheduled OnInvalidate()-calls before doing OnHundrethTick()-calls.
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15:13<__ln___>mmmmm how do i validate an .xml file against a .dtd file on commandline?
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15:17<@Alberth>with a validating xml parser, but that is all I know
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15:19<@Alberth>man xmllint seems like a good start
15:21<__ln___>so it seems, thanks
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15:26<larsemil>how can i using the console set the max lenght for a train / tunnel etc?
15:26<larsemil>in a multiplayer game
15:26<larsemil>i am running a dedicated server
15:27<V453000>set max_train_length is one
15:28<@Alberth>tunnel has no max length afaik
15:28<V453000>it does
15:28<V453000>some rather new feature allows to cap the tunnel length
15:28<larsemil>atleast its complaining in game. :)
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15:29*Alberth must better read the commit messages :p
15:29<larsemil>i mean for me half the fun is bulding the worlds longest tunnels. ;)
15:30<zydeco>but you can't change it in multiplayer, can you?
15:30<@Rubidium>sorry Albert
15:30<larsemil>zydeco: why would there be a difference
15:31<zydeco>I don't know, but it says you can't
15:31<zydeco>set max_tunnel_length
15:31<@Alberth>construction.max_tunnel_length is the variable, apparently
15:31<zydeco>yes, or the console
15:31<zydeco>ERROR: This command/variable is not available during network games.
15:31<@Rubidium>but yes, there are some settings that can't be changed in multiplayer due to the possibility of NewGRFs depending on its value
15:32<zydeco>oh so that's why
15:32<@Alberth>SGF_NO_NETWORK <-- it has a flag for that :p
15:32*zydeco had always wondered
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15:53<CIA-11>OpenTTD: frosch * r22228 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix (r22135)[FS#4546]: Do not resort town, industry and signs list directly in OnInvalidateData(). There might be a scheduled rebuild which needs execution first. So, only set a trigger for resorting.
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17:03<@Belugas>et si je colissait l'camp d'icitte?
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18:06<Eddi|zuHause>[08.03.2011 20:29] <dihedral> you want fish - learn how to use a fishing rod <-- a fishing rod is crafted by three sticks in a diagonal and two strings vertically below the higher end
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18:36*SmatZ smells pokemon
18:36<SmatZ>I found some poems I wrote ~10 years ago
18:37*SmatZ has melancholic mood
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18:41<SmatZ>one is about unrequited love...
18:41<SmatZ>I wonder what girl was that about :P
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18:45<SmatZ>I was fifteen, so I could be in love with different girl every week :)
18:45<SmatZ>I remember some of them
18:45<SmatZ>it was great to be fifteen
18:45*SmatZ boohs
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>that was almost fifteen years ago...
18:46<SmatZ>time to (try to) write another poem, I guess :)
18:46<SmatZ>hehe :)
18:46<SmatZ>well, 10 years for me
18:47<SmatZ>or 11...
18:49<glevans2>27 for me
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18:51<glevans2>I'm sure there are some in this chatroom with a few more seasons than me
18:52<SmatZ>on the internet, I always think about other people as if they were as old as me
18:52<SmatZ>which is interesting...
18:52<SmatZ>saying older people things I would never tell them in person
18:53<SmatZ>... makes weird situations when I meet them in person ...
18:53<SmatZ>or when I find out who that person really is
18:55<glevans2>get your smb problem worked out?
18:55<glevans2>wrong window
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause>i find it funny how you create a mental image from a person just by their nickname, and they look totally different
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19:39<Zmapper>can anyone help me?
19:40<Yexo>that depends on whether you're stuck in the elevator or can't find the way to the nearest railway station
19:40<Zmapper>I keep getting an error about not having 'no sound' checked
19:40<Yexo>ah,that's better :)
19:41<Yexo>what is the exact error message?
19:41<Zmapper>I am trying to run a version with infra share that a friend compiled
19:41<Zmapper>one sec
19:41<Zmapper>Failed to select sounds set 'no sound'
19:41<Yexo>your friend failed to create a problem bundle
19:42<Yexo>*proper, not problem
19:42<Yexo>no_sound.obs should be in the data/ directory
19:42<Yexo>can you check whether is it? I'm guessing not, but check anyway
19:43<Zmapper>When I add that it says Failed to select sounds set 'Scott Joplin Anthology'
19:44<Zmapper>which i downloaded a while ago to replace the base sounds set
19:44<Yexo>find openttd.cfg and remove the line that starts with soundsset =
19:45<Yexo>hmm, rather musicset =
19:45<Yexo>'Scott Joplin Anthology' is a music set, not a sounds set
19:46<Zmapper>where does openttd.cfg hide anyway
19:47<Yexo>My Documents/OpenTTD/ under windows
19:47<Zmapper>windows 7
19:47<Yexo>probably something like "Documents/OpenTTD/"
19:47<Zmapper>I have the folder open
19:47<Zmapper>where openttd is installed
19:47<Yexo>it's not in there
19:48<Zmapper>not that i can see
19:48<Yexo>see readme.txt section 4.2
19:49<Yexo>C:\Users\<username>\Documents\OpenTTD\ according to that
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19:52<Zmapper>cant find it
19:52<Zmapper>I have two versions installed ATM
19:52<Zmapper>1.05 and the infra share version
19:53<Yexo>do you have "hide known extensions" turned on?
19:53<Zmapper>1.05 had an installer and installed in both program files and my documents
19:53<Yexo>it's a stupid windows setting, but if you do the file might look like "openttd" without the .cfg
19:53<Zmapper>Is it on by default
19:54<Yexo>1.0.5 is completely installed in program files, the configuration (openttd.cfg), savegames and downloaded content will by default end up in My Documents
19:54<Yexo>that means multiple installations can use a single config file
19:54<Yexo>yes, it is
19:54<Zmapper>found it
19:55<Zmapper>just did a ctrl-f search
19:55<Zmapper>so do i need to edit it
19:55<perk11>btw why use my documents?
19:55<perk11>and not %APPDATA%
19:56<Yexo>because A) %APPDATA% wasn't around in earlier windows versions and B) it can't be found by users (so they can't find their savegames/screenshots)
19:56<Yexo>there probably is a C) and D) which I don't know about :p
19:57<perk11>sounds convincingly
19:57<Zmapper>so how do i edit the .cfg
19:57<Yexo>with any text editor
19:58<Yexo>notepad will probably do, depending on the line endings
19:58<Yexo>if it doesn't wordpad will work
19:58<perk11>notepad does well, unless you turn on word wrapping
19:58<Zmapper>I have it in notepad
19:58<Zmapper>so what do i do?
19:59<perk11>what do you want?
20:00<+glx>perk11: you're right, theorically it should be in app data
20:00<Yexo>remove the line that starts iwth "musicset ="
20:00<Zmapper>oh, ok
20:01<+glx>perk11: but even recent games still use mydocs
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>most games put their stuff in my documents
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20:01<perk11>many use "My games"
20:01<perk11>in my docs
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20:02<Zmapper>I thought it worked
20:03<Zmapper>can you run a .32 version on a .64 machine?
20:04<Zmapper>He sent me a .32 version
20:04<Yexo>I wouldn't expect that to be a problem
20:04<Zmapper>i now have a crash.dmp file on my hands :D
20:05<Yexo>that means the game started ok, but crashed somewhere after
20:05<Yexo>nothing we can help you with, ask your friend that compiled the binary for you
20:05<Zmapper>I will just wait until tonight
20:06<Yexo>but if 32bit vs 64bit was the problem you would not get a crash.dmp file
20:06<Zmapper>Thanks for all the help Yexo and perkill
20:06<Zmapper>what is the difference between .32 and .64 anyway
20:07<Zmapper>better preformance?
20:07<+glx>not visible :)
20:07<perk11>32 bit binary works perfect on win64
20:08<Yexo>and from what I've heard in the past the 64bit version was not always faster
20:10<Zmapper>has anyone tried to simulate seperate countries with infra share
20:10<Zmapper>I saw the one guy in the forums tried it
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>there was a game on german forum like that
20:11<perk11>I believe 64 bit version can work with savegames which are larger than 4 Gb
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>two people playing 4 "countries" in multiplayer
20:11<Zmapper>I saw that
20:12<Zmapper>That seems interesting
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>you can also look for "ottdgd", which was a (heavily patched) massive multiplayer game
20:13<Yexo>wwottdgd <- that is the full abbreviation
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>and some guys tried to mimic the british rail network with "franchised" transportation companies
20:13<Zmapper>Has anyone tried union stations
20:13<Zmapper>where multiple companies share a central station in a city
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not aware of anything like that
20:16<Zmapper>we tried in our server to have the government build a road network
20:17<Zmapper>like a state highway system
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>you don't need infrastructure sharing for that
20:17<Zmapper>we even built freeways and motorways later on
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20:25<perk11>Zmapper: what's your server?
20:28<Zmapper>it is a locked server
20:28<Zmapper>and it is not mine
20:28<perk11>it's just very interesting
20:28<Zmapper>have you heard of
20:29<Zmapper>one of the members there (sirmoo) set up a sever
20:29<perk11>thank you for the information
20:32<Zmapper>what severs do you like
20:34<perk11>I don't play much these days, I used to run my own server. Openttdcoop server is the best choice for complex networks building and I don't like luukland server much, but it usually has most of players online
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20:35<perk11>And I'd say there aren't much interesting servers around except openttdcoop, but it's quite hard to start
20:35<Zmapper>other than the one mentioned i like the servers
20:36<perk11>is it private tooo
20:36<perk11>I wrote it down
20:36<Zmapper>it is more relistic though
20:36<Zmapper>It costs $1 million to change the land
20:40<Zmapper>why was restricted trainlength added to 1.1
20:42<perk11>to make even more custom settings available
20:42<perk11>the question is why it's enabled by default
20:43<Zmapper>I like running long trains
20:43<perk11>you may change it in settings
20:43<Zmapper>that is good
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21:31<Zmapper>another question
21:31<Zmapper>is NuTracks a newgrf
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21:32*andythenorth shouldn't read forums when getting up with a headache
21:32<supermop>its an odd hour for you i'd think?
21:33<andythenorth>I'm in a different time zone
21:33<andythenorth>to usual
21:33<supermop>not gmt?
21:33<andythenorth>I'm on Indian Standard Time
21:34<andythenorth>IST includes an interesting random factor
21:34<andythenorth>although the clock is 5.5 hours ahead of gmt, the times at which stuff actually happens / arrives / gets done is quite variable :D
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21:36<supermop>going to duck out to grab dinner,
21:37<supermop>back in a second
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22:47<DanMacK>hey Andy
22:48<DanMacK>weird seeing you here this time of day :P
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22:53<supermop>it seems like so much of drawing sprites for tt iss about replicating grimey old things,
22:53<supermop>its hard to draw things that look new without looking rediculous
22:54<supermop>drawing a modern motive power shop that might be built in 2011
22:55<supermop>while balancing between it looking like a featureless white box, or some crazy futurist's idea from 40 years ago
22:58<andythenorth>DanMacK: even weirder seeing you here
22:58<andythenorth>seeing as we are on opposite sides of the planet :P
22:59<glevans2>he's on the inside, and your on the outside? or vice cersa?
23:00<supermop>itss extra hard aas an architecct
23:00<supermop>because any building that i would design would look oddly not 'real enough'
23:02<supermop>for some reason i also have a hard time with the purple windows
23:02*DanMacK pictures concrete with a row of windows along the top 1/3
23:02<supermop>can never get them to look right
23:03<supermop>i am actually doing a panel system building
23:03<DanMacK>Use the dark purplish blue
23:03<supermop>i am adding all sorts of crap to it that i never would in real life (even if i specc'd a generic panel system curtain wall)
23:04<supermop>like a butterfly roof for no reason
23:04<supermop>be cause I figure the monorail depot should look more 'futuristic' than HSR
23:05<supermop>so making the building look less utilitarian is my approach for now
23:05<supermop>altough i personally never got tt using monorail as a futuristic high speed heavy rail
23:06<supermop>I want it to be like an ALWEG subconsciously
23:06<supermop>mid century light passenger moving equipment
23:07<supermop>so this depot should really look more like a 60's vision of a futuristic building,
23:07<supermop>not a 60's high modern build, nor a 90's post modern building
23:08<supermop>sorry i am monologuing heere
23:09-!-Pulec [] has quit []
23:09<DanMacK>no worries
23:10*DanMacK finds architecture fascinating
23:10<supermop>me too, but its not so great for paying the bills at the moment
23:15<andythenorth>supermop: look at some of the TTD default office buildings for inspiration
23:15<andythenorth>especially the futurism ones
23:15<andythenorth>'how would Simon Foster do it' is my default thought these days
23:15<supermop>ive talked to planetmaker about this
23:15<andythenorth>it's not very original :P
23:15<supermop>norman foster
23:16<supermop>the original tto nakagin capsule tower had a oddly important influence on me as a kid in the mid 90s
23:16<andythenorth>wrong foster :)
23:16<supermop>the real building is one of my favorite structures in the world,
23:17<supermop>and got me interested in the metabolist movement
23:17<supermop>and i found out about it due to playing tt in 1994
23:17*DanMacK thinks the capsule tower is awesome
23:17<supermop>they might tear it down this year...
23:17<supermop>i am pretty upset
23:18<DanMacK>They've been talking about that for years though
23:18<supermop>i have visited it twice, been inside once
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23:18<supermop>it really should get landmarked and a proper rehab
23:18<supermop>its in a poor state
23:18<supermop>fine structurally
23:19<supermop>but totally neglected and unappreciated
23:19<DanMacK>agreed. I'm surprised the style didn't cattch on
23:19<supermop>ad, like may building of that size in tokyo, it iss owned as a coop of condos
23:20<supermop>so the people living there just want to tear it down and mortgage the land to build a generic new building like you see all over town
23:21<supermop>there is no way that some passionate party could step in to buy it and fix it up
23:21<supermop>it is catching on,
23:21<andythenorth_>sounds like Bombay
23:21<supermop>but much later, and if a different way
23:21<andythenorth_>lots of art-deco apartment buildings
23:21<andythenorth_>owned by coops
23:22<andythenorth_>being replaced by 15 story concrete towers
23:22<supermop>but modualr prefab and mass-customization are big emerging trends in archiecture now
23:22<supermop>for low impact low density housing
23:23<supermop>rather than the medium density that the metabolists envisioned
23:24<supermop>the nakagin is respected among young architects, but not its occupants
23:24<supermop>first time i went to go see it
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23:24<supermop>the information kiosk ladies at ginza subway station had no idea it existed, despite being a 5 minut walk away
23:25<supermop>my japanese was much better then,
23:25<DanMacK>it's definitely something you'd notice
23:26<supermop>but i had to sketch the building, describe its concept, try to write the kanji for its name
23:26<supermop>eventually they pulled out some huge book of super detailed maps of the neighborhood from the 70s
23:27<supermop>haas all of the easment lines and utilites on it
23:27<supermop>obviously not a tourist atlas
23:27<supermop>most recently in 2009, i went theere with a japanese friend,
23:28<supermop>who haad learned about kisho kurokawa in school, but was unaware of that building being there
23:29<DanMacK>sheesh, it's like they're trying to bury it or something
23:30<supermop>a desire to reimplement that building in ottd is what got me drawing sprites last year in the first place
23:31<DanMacK>Did you draw the OpenGFX version or was that done before?
23:32<supermop>i would not abide it,
23:32<supermop>so no
23:33<supermop>the idea for that building became one for a metabolist town set
23:34<supermop>as the metabolist movement really seemed fitting with TT's ideal vission of growth and infrastructure as progress
23:35-!-DanMacK [] has quit []
23:35<supermop>that idea led to ideas about rescaling
23:37<andythenorth_>rescaling TTD, or the set? :P
23:37<supermop>my st
23:38<supermop>from 12 to 8 meters per tile, roughly
23:38<supermop>for houses
23:38<supermop>and maybe even 4 meters
23:38<supermop>to see if it could work
23:39<andythenorth_>TTD scale is quite variable :P
23:39<supermop>that led to thoughts of a more realistically scaled modular station set to go with the town set
23:39<supermop>which led to my sheds
23:40<supermop>the reason they are so tall, is that i am leaning gradually towards a larger scale with them
23:43<supermop>this purple still looks so weird to me
23:43<supermop>especially up close in PS
23:46<supermop>but the glass-greens i used for the early modern depot clerestory windows would not look right for supposidly clear glass
23:47<supermop>i should just model and render these, then paint over them in 8bpp
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23:53<supermop>Hey Andy, do you have time to look at a png of one sprite?
23:59<supermop>nothing urgent
---Logclosed Wed Mar 09 00:00:16 2011