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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-03-13

---Logopened Sun Mar 13 00:00:19 2011
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04:00<@planetmaker>moin
04:00<@Alberth>moin
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04:32<CIA-7>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22235 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/faroese.txt: -Add: stub for a Faroese translation
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05:59<frosch123>"Now some years passed and I have 3 OpenTTD installations running. 2 stable 1.0.5 each for one screen and 1 nightly that recieves frequent upgrades." <- :o
06:00<frosch123>clearly the main advantage of multiple screens is that you can play two games simultaneiously :)
06:01<@planetmaker>:-D
06:04<@Terkhen>hello
06:04<@Terkhen>and you need two installations of 1.0.5 for that? can't you open the same one twice?
06:04<fonsinchen>I've read of one guy who played a network game with himself on two screens so that he gets two fullscreen viewports into the same game. Maybe that's the same person. Having two installations for that is quite funny, indeed.
06:05<@Terkhen>:)
06:06<frosch123>he, network game with yourself? i remember i did that with outpost 2, as it had no proper sandbox mode without annoying opponents
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06:44<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22236 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix (r21457): Disarm a bear-pit, which r22226 almost fell into.
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06:51<Ammler>can't you make one openttd fullscreen on 2 screens?
06:51<frosch123>that's the normal behaviour here
06:51<Ammler>thought that is a os thing :-)
06:52<frosch123>i cannot make fullscreen on a single screen though :)
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06:52<frosch123>Ammler: rather a sdl thing. other applications make fullscreen on single screen
06:52<fjb>Moin
06:52<fjb>Quak frosch123
06:52<frosch123>quak fjb
06:53<Ammler>ck!
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06:58<Eddi|zuHause>a "quack(salber)" is something different...
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06:59<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: though they might use ingredients of toads and such :p
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>frogs are not toads either ;)
07:00<andythenorth>hello
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07:27<Zuu>On the two installation thing, I also first though it was useless, but decided to not comment on that as he might have made some tweaks so that they go auto-fullscreen on the right monitor.
07:30<Zuu>(right as in the correct one - eg one on left and one in right direction ;-) )
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can do that with the -c option
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>but in general, the person might just be cautious where two instances of the same installation may cause conflicts over temporary files
07:46<Ammler>how does autosave work in that situation, btw.?
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08:15<__ln__>http://www.seisake.net/satamarata3/hrtnv_1.jpg
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08:54<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=935406#p935406 <-- nice one, Alberth :-)
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08:59<frosch123>planetmaker: s/grfwizard/grfmaker/
08:59<@planetmaker>he, yeah
09:00<frosch123>grfwizard is some stupid wrapper around grfcodec for people who cannot use a cli
09:01<@planetmaker>like the thread starter :-P
09:03<@Rubidium>we definitely should get a labview toolbox so he can clickity click together NewGRFs ;)
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>a what?
09:04<@Alberth>lol
09:04<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: you don't know G?
09:04<frosch123>yeah, the important part of labview is, that everyone thinks he could learn it :p
09:05<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: G is a languages of fourth generation
09:05<frosch123>... or something like that is written on the box ...
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like a meta-meta-language?
09:06<@Alberth>no, it's a visual programming language for making user interfaces
09:07<@Alberth>but everything is graphical, including eg +, and a for-loop
09:07<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tellusrfid.com/Portals/0/LabVIEW%20Code.png
09:07<frosch123>it's actually quite nice for its purpose. the biggest drawback is that you need to have the same version installed everywhere, as it has basically no compatibility between even minor versions
09:08<@Rubidium>and it sucks w.r.t. source control
09:08<@Rubidium>open, scroll and save changes the "source code"
09:08<@Alberth>any non-textual language does :)
09:08<@Rubidium>and it's binary
09:08<@Rubidium>so you can't really diff it either
09:09<@planetmaker>that's the biggest drawback
09:09<@Alberth>people are doing research to fix that :)
09:09<@planetmaker>and the inability to show all cases of a switch or case statement at once
09:09<frosch123>but it makes a nice handicraft work to attach a printout of the source to your paper :)
09:09<@planetmaker>but it has a very shallow learning curve. Initially
09:10<@planetmaker>It gets a lot steeper later on
09:11<@Alberth>you cannot open a C code block and start programming C like people do with Simulink? :p
09:11<@planetmaker>frosch123: nowadays you just make an electronic attachment ;-)
09:11<frosch123>planetmaker: i doubt that can beat the look&feel of flip-book
09:11<@Alberth>planetmaker: then it is dead before you published it due to compability puzzles :)
09:12<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
09:13<@planetmaker>yes and yes.
09:13<@planetmaker>Though between minor versions programmes mostly (not always) work
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09:22<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tellusrfid.com/Portals/0/LabVIEW%20Code.png <-- ah, yes, i have worked with something similar before...
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually quite funny if your code doesn't become too complex
09:23<frosch123>no, it actually becomes quite funny when your code becomes complex :p
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: no, you mean "quite fun", that is something different ;)
09:24<frosch123>also "quite funny", because everyone thinks it's easy before looking into the sub-vis :p
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, back when i made my chemical facility control program, i made the easy calculations in such a visual language, and the complex calculations in "real code" ;)
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, what does anyone think about this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/longwag.grf www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/longwagtest4.sav
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>i think i got the alignment right now
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>now i need something to fix (some of) the glitches
09:39<frosch123>are you sure with the alignment?
09:40<frosch123>i'm not sure about the perspective of certain angles
09:40<frosch123>hmm, or does it tilt?
09:42<frosch123>how many parts does one wagon consist one?
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>the width of the roof is odd in some views, yes
09:42<frosch123>s/one/of/
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's 3 parts
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>4/8 + 8/8 + 4/8
09:43<frosch123>something like 4-8-4 ?
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>only the middle one is visible
09:44<frosch123>i guess it looks most weird due to wagons moving sidewards
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but you can't really prevent that
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09:46<frosch123>maybe also use x_pos & 0xF and y_pos & 0xF and only consider the neighboured wagons when close to the edge of a tile
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>maybe, but that needs patches like the one in http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2521
09:49<CIA-7>OpenTTD: alberth * r22237 /trunk/src/engine_type.h: -Doc: Add some doxyments to structs and enums in engine_type.h
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>this grf above uses 12 views for the vehicle. i tried 8 but it looks even more weird. and with only the 4 standard views they stick really far out of the rails
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>other possibility might be to use 5 parts, 2+2+8+2+2, then the turning would be closer to the edge
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10:00<CIA-7>OpenTTD: alberth * r22238 /trunk/src/engine_type.h: -Codechange (r8888): Also remove the now unused NUM_VEHICLE_TYPES constant.
10:00<frosch123>maybe 4 + 4 + 8 works better as long as fs#3569 is not done
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10:06<Nite>Hi
10:07<Nite>... searching for any nice servers with nice newgrfs, ecs or firs ...
10:07<Nite>anything i might have overlooked?
10:10-!-alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, that seems to work better
10:11<alluke>those japanese maglevs accelerate like tractors
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>tractors have an insane amount of TE
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>updated version: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/longwag.grf www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/longwagtest5.sav
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10:17<alluke>well 0-100 in 10 years
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: you mix something up there...
10:18<alluke>how
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: tractors have extremely high acceleration, but very low top speed
10:19<alluke>okay then smartypants
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: your maglevs are the opposite
10:19<alluke>how about an oil tanker
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that comes closer ;)
10:19<alluke>or no
10:19<alluke>the maglevs top is 502
10:19<alluke>but they accelerate dead slow
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing that has higher acceleration than a tractor is a bulldozer
10:21<alluke>ye ye
10:21<alluke>but you got my point
10:21<alluke>they should be like rockets
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>complain to the grf author
10:29<@peter1138>Hurr
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10:35<alluke>andy
10:35<alluke>are you going to fix the trams
10:35<alluke>ecs cereals are carried in a boxcar
10:37<@peter1138>Yeah, boxes of Cornflakes, Shreddies and Grape nuts.
10:37<alluke>youre hilarious
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10:38<andythenorth>hello
10:38<andythenorth>alluke: no
10:38<andythenorth>never
10:39<alluke>why
10:39<alluke>in firs and normal industries theyre carried in a hopper
10:39<andythenorth>because I am feeling capricious :D
10:39<alluke>are you discriminating rival industry set
10:40<andythenorth>no
10:40<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that even looks good :)
10:40<andythenorth>but I am not developing HEQS at the moment
10:40<andythenorth>alluke: raise a ticket here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/issues
10:40<andythenorth>it will be in HEQS 1.1
10:40<andythenorth>;)
10:40<andythenorth>or 1.01 or whatever I call it
10:40<alluke>yes
10:41<andythenorth>I'll do HEQS 1.01 in a few months
10:41<alluke>ok
10:41<alluke>just a little code change
10:41<andythenorth>right now I'm doing other projects ;)
10:41<alluke>there is already sprites for grain
10:41<andythenorth>raise the ticket ;)
10:42<andythenorth>and in other news
10:42<andythenorth>where's my clicky-pointy newgrf GUI ?
10:42<alluke>wut
10:44<alluke>whats mud-plugger
10:45<alluke>heyeyey
10:45<alluke>are you kidding me
10:45<alluke>HEQS 2 will feature (slightly smaller) cargo capacities for many vehicles, to better match NARS 2 and UKRS 2. The original capacities are set to balance with eGRVTS. New capacities will be balanced with FIRS production. Probably 25% lower.
10:45<alluke>the ukrs2 capacities are unrealistically low
10:46<andythenorth>alluke: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1283
10:46<andythenorth>is what you're reading?
10:46<alluke>yes
10:46<alluke>what else :P
10:46<andythenorth>you don't like the idea?
10:46<alluke>well
10:47<alluke>i like the idea of realistic capacities
10:47<alluke>but ukrs2 is way too low
10:47<alluke>compare to any other sets
10:47<alluke>the biggest cars available carry only 20 tons
10:47<alluke>while other sets have 40-60
10:47<alluke>irl even more
10:48<andythenorth>well, it was a player request :P
10:49<andythenorth>funny things, player requests
10:49<alluke>indeed
10:49<andythenorth>you implement one, someone else whines
10:50<alluke>well see
10:50<andythenorth>Rubidium: that was a remarkably restrained reply in the forum thread :o
10:58<@Rubidium>the one where I told somewhat he doesn't know shit about stuff?
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>in my experience, people who say "i'm not an idiot" are usually exactly that ;)
10:59<alluke>im an idiot
10:59<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I refrained from writing that sentence slightly paraphrased in that thread ;-)
10:59<@planetmaker>like... "why do you then behave like one?" ;-)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, i read that ;)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>i can imagine the part in <> ;)
11:00<Nite>sure about that 20 tons? later waggons?
11:02<alluke>i am
11:02<alluke>see yourself
11:02<alluke>put in ukrs2, year 3k, and start game
11:02<alluke>sort the wagons by capacity
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11:03<alluke>ukrs has awfully unrealistic capacities
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: ukrs2 might not be finished in the later stages
11:04<alluke>?
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: i mean: the later wagons and engined might not be done yet
11:05<Nite>i think the max 33 tons coal or 30K liters oil in nars2 are ok ...
11:05<Nite>about requests:
11:05<Nite>if one side wants 40 and the other 60 choose 40 ?
11:06<Nite>20 / 60 = 40 i mean
11:06<Nite>whatever i look forward to ukrs2
11:07<Nite>iam a bit worried about the out of scale thing in ottd atm ...
11:08<Nite>industreis too close together if u choose large station size ... sums it up
11:08<Nite>more statoin than track between is simply odd
11:08<@planetmaker>openttd has a game-specific scale
11:08<Nite>larger maps do help
11:09<@planetmaker>it's a game with its own laws, not meant to simulate any particular reality
11:09<Nite>or would if industreis could be more sparsly
11:10<Scuddles>What about the polybulk hoppers that don't carry coal anymore like they did in the old ukrs?
11:10<Nite>iam not into realism at al
11:10<Nite>l
11:10<alluke>i am
11:10<Nite>but, ottd orients on realistik things kind of
11:11<Nite>c
11:11<Nite>*cough*
11:11<alluke>i suggested parameters for realistic and ttd capacities
11:12<Nite>gameplay comes first
11:12<alluke>yes
11:12<alluke>big capacities are good for gameplay
11:12<Nite>and building almost no track but statoins only is odd even in an unrealistic way
11:13<Nite>you can have longer tarins for more capacity?
11:13<alluke>lol?
11:13<alluke>hoe else
11:13<alluke>how
11:13<Nite>but then you need bigger maps ...
11:13<Scuddles>Exactly, I can't even connect the 20 coal mines to a power plant with ukrs
11:13<Scuddles>As if the train capacities weren't low enough, the industry gets full by the time I connect three of them
11:14<Nite>20 coal mines is an extreme cluster
11:14<Nite>(btw i almost only play ECS, so one coalmine is enough)
11:14<Nite>i dislike clustering
11:14<alluke>i play too
11:14<alluke>but 10 coal mines are more fun
11:15<alluke>with nearly 10k ton trains carrying the stuff out
11:15<Nite>10 caolmines jsut use space on the map - 1 mine producing same as 10 normal ones is very gamaplay/construciton freindly
11:16<@planetmaker>alluke: why do you think that big capacities are good for gameplay?
11:16<alluke>because you dont have to buy 1000 trains
11:16<alluke>and 8-line networks
11:16<Nite>hihg capacity IS fun: building a network that can do it
11:16<Scuddles>Probably because one train would be able to carry an entire year's production in a single trip
11:16<alluke>unrealitic
11:17<alluke>take a look at kiruna for example
11:17<@planetmaker>alluke: as it's a transport game... building transportation means is what it's about....
11:17<alluke>yes?
11:17<alluke>thats what im doing
11:19<Nite>the scale is odd in many cases ecs produces almost to much, firs produces nothing at all, vanilla produces nicely but has no variety ... its all bad ;-P
11:19<Nite>oddttd
11:19<Nite>* not to be taken seriously
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11:20<TGYoshi>hai all
11:21<Nite>and i like pikkas trainsets most of all - only very bad decision was making regearing using a cargo slot (!)
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>i agree
11:22<Nite>well and making "futuretrains" weaker than old ones ... is ... odd 2
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>i have never reached the "future" era ever since i started playing openttd
11:24<Nite>well i reach it every week ...
11:24<alluke>ok
11:24<alluke>i built 20 tile coal trains from canset and ukrs2
11:24<Nite>did u ...
11:24<alluke>both have the biggerst wagons available
11:25<Nite>are u in an online game? (no i assume)
11:25<alluke>train 1 (canadian)
11:25<alluke>2420 tons of coal
11:25<alluke>each car carrying 55 tons
11:25<alluke>train 2 (uk)
11:26<Nite>i think about 1000 tons a train are oki
11:26<alluke>1100 tons of coal
11:26<alluke>25 tons each
11:26<Nite>i have NO idea what real trains carry usually
11:26<alluke>exactly
11:26<Nite>exactly what?
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>that depends...
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>on loading gauge and permissible axle weight
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>for a 4-axle wagon in europe, 40t is probably a good estimate
11:28<Nite>why estimate, numbers must be given somewhere, i mean you are the trainheads ;P
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>i tried searching, but haven't found a suitible ressource
11:30<Nite>there are some ottd players that know all about such stuff, iam nOt one of them
11:32<Nite>and google is your friend
11:32<alluke>in here we have 4-axle hopper, with capacity of 67.5 tons
11:32<Nite>the net is full of trainspotters ...
11:32<alluke>http://www.vaiski.net/vaunut/taimnt.jpg
11:32<alluke>theres a pic
11:33<Nite>US has 120 ton waggons, off course rather long ones ...
11:35<Nite>i conclude that 20 tons is really rather small ...
11:35<Nite>but then ukrs2 is not finished ...
11:35<alluke>yes
11:36<alluke>and that 25 ton wagon is called monster box
11:37<Nite>is "ton" always kilos? or pounds?
11:37<Nite>* confused
11:38<@planetmaker>Nite: there's ton and ton and ton ;-)
11:38<@planetmaker>metric, imperial and US
11:38<@planetmaker>similar variance as 'mile'
11:38<Nite>but is it at least roughly the same, as hp and hp?
11:39<Nite>ok googled
11:39<Nite>us ton is 2000 pounds but 900 kg
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>not even pound is the same as pound ;)
11:40<@planetmaker>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton#Units_of_mass.2Fweight
11:40<Nite>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton
11:42<andythenorth>HEQS in many places treats US ton as metric ton :P
11:42<andythenorth>so some vehicles are currently *bigger* than RL :D
11:42<Nite>where is this going, what tons do we have in ottd then ? (1000 kg? or just ottd tonnes?)
11:42<andythenorth>meanwhile....
11:42<andythenorth>I am playing a 150 year test game with FIRS, UKRS 2, HEQS, eGRVTS and FISH
11:42<andythenorth>and capacities are fine
11:43<andythenorth>I have no problems with UKRS 2
11:43<Nite>forgot what heqs is
11:43<@planetmaker>slow, big rvs
11:43<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=37912
11:43<Nite>ah yeah
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11:44<andythenorth>the only problem I have with UKRS 2 capacities is that I need all the tiles I can get for stations
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: but your example wagon has an exceptionally high axle weight, which may only be run on very specific lines, not generally across europe
11:44<Nite>how "ready" seems ukrs2 today?
11:45<alluke>it was just an example of realistic hopper
11:46<Nite>all the tiles you can get is64 then ? ,9
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11:46<Nite>(i like stationspread 14 - 20)
11:47-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0cd548.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
11:47<Nite>well "generalyl across europe" woudl be very different ...
11:47<Nite>i like it to be oriented on the maximum
11:48<Nite>since You build the lines so you could build them 4 high tonnage
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11:48<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: but just taking the extreme examples doesn't usually make for good gameplay value
11:48<Nite>Hi
11:49-!-Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth
11:49<Nite>true! gamplay counts in the end
11:49<Nite>not to easy, not to hard, not odd
11:51<Nite>... more railtypes for different tonnage ... where am i thinking
11:51-!-dfox_ [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
11:51<Nite>extreme micromanegement ... is it good?
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11:52<@planetmaker>make it so and try
11:52<@planetmaker>personally I'm not entirely convinced
11:52<@planetmaker>But then... speed limits might not be the best choice either
11:53<@planetmaker>And axle weight has not yet been tried really. Mostly as it needs modification of both, a railtype and a vehicle newgrf
11:54<Nite>meaning "wagonspeedlimits" ?
11:54<@planetmaker>afaik that's what mb plans with his German tracks and DB set. So, if you're going to make a test setup, you could re-use its labels by taking an existing grf to use them. And then modify a train newgrf accordingly to obey the different types
11:54<Nite>the autospeedlimits for curves/corners are fine it hink
11:55<@planetmaker>you would / could simply declare the light wagons compatible to both rail types. But the heavy axle wagons only compatible to the re-inforced tracks. Thus they could not go on the light weight tracks
11:56<Nite>in the end
11:56<Nite>everyone would simply only build the best railtype for sure
11:56<Nite>because in ottd you always have money like hay
11:57<@planetmaker>but if there's only a fast, low axle weight and a slow, heavy axle weight and a VERY expensive 3rd one?
11:57<@planetmaker>or maybe not even the latter?
11:58<frosch123>Nite: that few? i tend to have more money than hay
11:58<Nite>not too bad, one railtype for beginning the game ond one for when you are rich ... VERY rich
12:00<Nite>comes to mind that there are also never really cheap or expensive trains, they all cost roughly the same ...
12:00<Nite>in the end
12:00<Nite>you always buy the most powerfull
12:00<@planetmaker>define 'powerful'
12:01<Nite>the one wiht teh most horsepower KN and or speed
12:01<Nite>the best one
12:01<@planetmaker>actually 'power' or 'tractive efford' or 'max speed' or another combination thereof?
12:01<@planetmaker>or maybe throw in running costs for more fun
12:01<frosch123>Nite: there are at least three best engiens: most tractive effort, most speed, and least cost
12:01<@planetmaker>there is not a 'best one' with good train sets
12:01<Nite>well speed and HP/KN mathers very much
12:01<andythenorth_>hmm
12:01<Nite>prices do not mather
12:02<@planetmaker>running costs do matter, though
12:02<andythenorth_>there is usually a best-ish engine
12:02<@planetmaker>price not so much
12:02*andythenorth_ disagrees
12:02<Nite>but it turned out when you raise the running costs the start of the gaem takes for ever
12:02<frosch123>if you service a some industry with very low production, and your train has only like 2 wagons, then the price and running cost matters
12:02<andythenorth_>yes
12:02<andythenorth_>but not by the time it's 1995
12:02<andythenorth_>and you have 10k popn cities
12:02<Nite>usually there is one fastest and one most powerfull engine you end up with
12:03<andythenorth_>the more interesting restrictions are things like 'the fastest one can't haul mail'
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12:03<andythenorth_>or 'fastest one is 8 cars only'
12:03<Nite>a train with 2 waggons is more a vehicle ...
12:04<frosch123>yeah, you might use heqs as well for such routes
12:04<andythenorth_>hmm
12:04<andythenorth_>in my FIRS test game, I did scrap trains on most short runs
12:05<andythenorth_>and use trams / trucks instead
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Lastgrenzenraster.jpg&filetimestamp=20060617133556 <-- an example of freight wagon capacity: read: "S": 100km/h, "**": can run 120km/h, but needs additional breaking power, "A:39,0" 39t on track class A (16t/axle), "B:47,0": 47t on track class B (18t/axle), "C:55,0": 55t on track class C (20t/axle)
12:05<Nite>money is no object in ottd ...
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>"braking", not "breaking"
12:05<Nite>bascost mod is realyl very good
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a track class D (22.5t/axle) and E (25t/axle)
12:06<frosch123>Nite: still you want every single line to be profitable in it self (resp. i want that :p )
12:06<Nite>(i do not always care)
12:08<Nite>can ottd handle more than 4 railtypes atm?
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>16
12:09<Nite>ic
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12:17<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5034&pid=72026#pid72026 <-- the link is not clickable
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12:20<@planetmaker>thx, Eddi|zuHause
12:20<Nite>after some thought
12:21<Nite>big wagons are good (gameplay wise) as huge stations are no fun on medium sized maps because industreis are too close togehter
12:21<Nite>often industreis are only 30 - 40 tiles appart
12:22<Nite>which woudl mean with station size 20, you would not need any track at all
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: that actually means, industry production should scale with mapsize
12:22<Nite>just stations
12:22<Nite>not quite
12:23<Nite>bigger maps bigger stations
12:23<Nite>the onyl thing i see clear is that industries are often too close togethere
12:23<Nite>...
12:24<Nite>can you switch of building of industreis by player completely in 1.1.0 ?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>but you can switch off building industries automatically by the game
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12:29<@Alberth>indeed you cannot disable funding new industries
12:30<TGYoshi>What's the use of the train controll posts?
12:30<Nite>however in ecs building new industreis is sometimes rather restricted to certain places
12:30<@planetmaker>TGYoshi, call them waypoints and it might become clearer to you
12:31<Nite>TGYoshi guess why are they called waypoints
12:31<@planetmaker>consider two routes which lead to the same destinations
12:31<TGYoshi>Ok :P
12:31<TGYoshi>I thought you used 1x1 stations for that :]
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12:31<Nite>or consider you want trains only to go to certain paltforms of a station
12:32<@Alberth>Nite: industries can limit the spot where they can be built
12:32<@planetmaker>TGYoshi, you can do that - but only if you use non-stop goto orders
12:32<Nite>Alberth Thats what i meant
12:32<@planetmaker>without non-stop orders they'd seriously mess up your traffic
12:33<@Alberth>Nite but that is not related to user-funded building of industries
12:33<Nite>use waypoints for waypoints simply
12:34<@planetmaker>though there usually is little need for waypoints ;-)
12:34<Nite>that depends a lot
12:35<Nite>i often needed them if a station has to do both - laoding and unloading
12:35<@planetmaker>that's indeed one of the very few use cases
12:36<Nite>or, less often, having a quad track with slow-freight and fast-pax lanes
12:36<@planetmaker>which cannot be solved differently, IF you want to use one station for loading and unloading
12:36<TGYoshi>Cool, thanks xD
12:36<Nite>it is not very few in my games, i often use such stations ;)
12:36<@planetmaker>:-)
12:37<@planetmaker>Nite, you save space by just using a drop and a pickup station
12:37<@planetmaker>and it's not detrimental either
12:37<TGYoshi>btw
12:37<TGYoshi>Is there a way to provide a whole rail of signals immediately?
12:38<@planetmaker>yes
12:38<@planetmaker>drag it
12:38<TGYoshi>I just made a rail to the other side of the map..
12:38<Nite>sometiems this does not work because one of the staotins would not be connected to the industry then
12:38<@planetmaker>from an existing signal
12:38<TGYoshi>yes I know xd
12:38<Nite>it depends
12:38<TGYoshi>But I mean to fill an un-filled rail with signs immediately
12:38<Nite>ctrl& drag siganls
12:38<TGYoshi>as it's kinda turny
12:38<@planetmaker>TGYoshi, that's what I mean, too, yes ;-)
12:38<@Alberth>as long as it doesn't branch :)
12:39<@planetmaker>^
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12:39<TGYoshi>Omg cool
12:39<TGYoshi>Thanks :D
12:39<Nite>most of the "ctrl" functions are unknown by many ...
12:39<@Alberth>that will be 5 euro :D
12:39<TGYoshi>That's logic
12:39<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden_features
12:39<TGYoshi>As they are stated nowhere
12:39<TGYoshi>x]
12:39<@planetmaker>they are
12:40<@planetmaker>they should always be mentioned in the tooltip. And most on that wiki page
12:40<Nite>its almost like: if you cannot do something first try it with ctrl down ...
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12:40<TGYoshi>lol
12:40<@planetmaker>unless, of course, your language translator did not translate the ctrl features
12:40<Nite>*lol* that they are even called "Hidden"
12:41<TGYoshi>I see
12:41<Nite>like shared orders are hidden but essential
12:41<@planetmaker>they're not obvious. And the tooltip explanation is not particularily old either
12:41<TGYoshi>Tooltips take so long to load
12:41<TGYoshi>XD
12:41<Nite>right mouse button
12:41<TGYoshi>I still don't know how to do shared orders
12:41<@planetmaker>TGYoshi, configure them to use a shorter hover time
12:41<TGYoshi>It's so confusing xD
12:41<@planetmaker>Nite, not by default
12:41<Nite>well copy trains and hold ctrl
12:42<Nite>= shared orders
12:42<TGYoshi>The advanced settings is WAAYYYYY to rich of settings xD
12:42<TGYoshi>O.O
12:42<TGYoshi>Normal copy = No shared?
12:42<Nite>or copy orders and hold ctrl = also shared orders
12:42<TGYoshi>pfff complicated game xd
12:42<@planetmaker>TGYoshi, there's a difference between "same orders" and "shared orders"
12:43<@planetmaker>The latter make it easier as you modify one, all others follow that modification, too
12:43<Nite>just pin down that ctrl and play as normal, you will be amazad what you will be able to!
12:43<CIA-7>OpenTTD: alberth * r22239 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_base.h engine_type.h): -Doc: Further engine doxyment additions.
12:43<@planetmaker>hm. Maybe it should be reversed for cloning / copying a vehicle
12:43<TGYoshi>lol
12:44<Nite>a switch for shared order priority or not could work yes ...
12:44<TGYoshi>ehh how to build double-signs? xd
12:44<@planetmaker>yet another advanced setting, Nite ? ;-)
12:44<@planetmaker>TGYoshi, path signals are always only one-sided
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12:45<TGYoshi>D=
12:45<Nite>in fact i would like to see most new features with an on/off setting in teh advorders.
12:45<@planetmaker>hm, why do the cooling systems of power plants fail only now?
12:46-!-Vinnie_nl [~vinniep@5356A6F6.cm-6-7c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
12:46<Nite>the first path siganl can be passed from behind
12:46<Nite>but it is no signal from behind (ignored by trains)
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12:47<@Alberth>planetmaker: they don't, /me remembers that in the summer cooling systems of a powerplant here could not cope with the heat either :)
12:47<TGYoshi>. . .
12:47<Nite>planetmaker poor japan
12:47<@Alberth>hi glx
12:47<TGYoshi>Train too long error :/
12:47<Vinnie_nl>an other openttd channel :)
12:47<@Alberth>is there more than one ?
12:47<Vinnie_nl>yes
12:48<Vinnie_nl>but it is a secret :P
12:48<@Alberth>#openttdcoop perhaps?
12:48<Nite>hidden
12:48<Vinnie_nl>shhhhh
12:48<lugo>you have to ctrl-click to join that channel
12:48<@Alberth>Nite: just like our features?
12:49<Nite>* hides under desk
12:50<TGYoshi>Ctrl D=
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>did the guy really create another forum account to rant in his own thread?
13:14-!-goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-068-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
13:14<@planetmaker>I wonder the same
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13:18<Lakie>This BillSargent?
13:18-!-TGYoshi [4da7286d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>Lakie: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=935445#p935445
13:21<Lakie>Well, from what I see it might be possible, the latest posts of both users don't share ips though, but both have posted from this one ip previously
13:25<Lakie>Seems an odd think to register to say though
13:35<frosch123>hehe, so he went to a different pc? :p
13:36<Lakie>So, it starts with a complaint about breaking the engine through 'obserd speeds', then goes on to basically flame openttd and the lack of 'easy access programming'*...
13:37<Lakie>Its possible
13:37<Lakie>Seems silly to be honest, complaining over things he doesn't really seem to understand
13:38<Lakie>Heh, 'multi-core' support...
13:38*planetmaker likes Alberth's reply on that :-)
13:39<Lakie>Well, it's simple, storage and splitting of the 'threads' would be fair too much effort to maintain...
13:39*Lakie flees
13:40<frosch123>well, if it's the same guy, splitting makes no sense, rather lock it
13:41<frosch123>oh, confused "splitting into threads" with "splitting the forum thread" :s
13:41<Lakie>Heh
13:42<@Alberth>was just about to comment on lack of multi-cores at the forum :p
13:43*Lakie wonders why users insist on it these days.
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's one of those buzz-wordy things
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>a year or two ago everybody requested some facebook-style flash game
13:47<Lakie>I guess
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>multi-core processors are common nowadays even on the low-budget systems
13:48<Lakie>Aye, but that doesn't nessarily mean certain apps will run any better on them
13:48<@planetmaker>it depends on how parallel-izable they are...
13:49<Lakie>I know, hence certain apps. ;)
13:49<@planetmaker>and I trust the judgement of the people I know who looked at it... much more than a random bloke appearing and ranting about its need.
13:50<Lakie>Aye, sounds like a pretty interesting subject for a PhD, Alberth
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's like Alberth said. having both multi-player-synchronisation and (properly balanced) multi-thread-support is near impossible. you'd have to design the game from scratch
13:51<@Alberth>even then it won't work, I think
13:51<@Alberth>everything needs the single shared resource, the map
13:52<Lakie>= bottleneck?
13:52<@planetmaker>It *might* work somewhat, if the global access of the PF to the map was restricted.
13:52<@planetmaker>But it'd mean to scrap A*
13:52<@planetmaker>And go with a lot of complaint about "why does my train go there..."
13:52<@Alberth>yep, It's like having 8 people, and only one piece of paper with all the data :)
13:52<@planetmaker>not a good option ;-)
13:52<Lakie>Hmm... such hostile attitudes, also the whole we use this so we own you attitude...
13:53<Lakie>Also, I think he fails to understand, 'text files', script languages which are internally compiled to binary-ish code.
13:54<@planetmaker>those people always forget that everybody who contributes to this game (by whatever means and extend) does it purely for his or her own joy.
13:54<@Alberth>and then to suggest XML :p
13:54<Nite>any idea why i sometimes can drag an order in a list and somtimes simply cannot?
13:54<Lakie>That just gets processed with the various data extracted into the binary format needed...
13:54<@Alberth>Nite afair you cannot drag a selected order
13:56<Nite>but when i klick an order it is selected automatically
13:57<Nite>ok works now ...
13:58<frosch123>Nite: iirc it somehow depends whether the order is selected or not
13:59<frosch123>yeah, what albert says :)
13:59<@Alberth>at least we have the same idea about why :)
14:01<Nite>ok ok, it gets selected in the process of dragging, but it must not be preselected.
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14:08<Nite>any way of allowing "non uniform stations" but disallowing "split up stations"?
14:09<Nite>well bad idea because ppl would get to destination old style
14:09<@Yexo>no
14:09<Nite>uniform stations could prevent beaming very much, though its hard
14:10<Nite>or could you still beam with truckstops?
14:11<@planetmaker>Nite, just reduce the station spread
14:12<Nite>i know
14:12<@SmatZ>Nite: yes, you could use truck stops as well
14:12<Nite>but then i cannot has lengthy train
14:12<Nite>yeah triead that truckstops
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14:14<Nite>having an idea about non beaming
14:15<Nite>vehicles that load actually have to be near the industry they want to laod from, not stations
14:16<Nite>vehicles/trains
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14:16<Nite>iam right am i?
14:17<Nite>or both, vehicles and the station ahve to be near loadingindustry ...
14:17<@Yexo><Nite> vehicles that load actually have to be near the industry they want to laod from, not stations <- that greatly limits station size
14:17<Nite>true
14:17<@SmatZ>Nite: just reduce station spread :P
14:18<Nite>but then i cannot has lenghty train
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14:18<@Yexo>how long trains do you want?
14:18<alluke>64 tiles
14:19<Nite>20
14:19<@Yexo>so set station spread to 20
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14:19<Hyronymus>yexo, private please
14:19<Nite>but hten you can beam
14:20<Nite>it salmost no use brainstorming the beaming issue
14:21<Nite>- bigger maps industries faaaaaaaaaar apart
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>conceptual question: in a projected fix for the shortened-vehicles-issue, will there be a newgrf-way to enforce compatibility with the new/old way of things, and how far will this compatibility go?
14:23<Nite>a brutal new way of playing ottd, would be that the game only accepts deliveries that it wants first, giving out many subsidies that once archeived last forever ... like that?
14:24<Nite>like a hard easy cargodist
14:24<Nite>dest ... dust
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: rewriting the subsidy system is totally independent from cargodist
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: by all means, make a good proposal about that.
14:25<Nite>yes it is ...
14:25<Nite>" ... proposal about that." so you like it?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>Nite: there's not really much to like about yet...
14:27<grzywacz>Any idea why my trucks are not overtaking broken ones on one-way roads? :<
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>grzywacz: articulated trucks cannot overtake
14:28<Nite>well and there wil be no more to like - get more subsidies that last forever and hunt them ...
14:28<grzywacz>Eddi|zuHause, no, old-style trucks
14:28<grzywacz>They overtake on normal roads, but fail on one-way O_o;
14:28<Nite>broken down on bridge or (near) intersection ?
14:29<grzywacz>Nite, ah, so it doesn't work on bridges? Good to know.
14:32<Nite>grzywacs afaik
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>that's correct
14:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: translators * r22240 /trunk/src/lang/ (esperanto.txt greek.txt unfinished/faroese.txt):
14:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: esperanto - 9 changes by Christopher
14:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: faroese - 71 changes by FastNinja
14:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: greek - 20 changes by fumantsu
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15:31<Nite>there can be a bulldoze limit in 1.1.0 rc2 ?
15:31<Nite>... demolish limit ...
15:32<@SmatZ>yes
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16:29<supermop>hello
16:35<Markk>Moo
16:35<supermop>i was wondering about how bridge sprites are composited, how exactly do the pillars work?
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16:36<supermop>and, can a railtype have a non default foundation(hat is a unique foundation for, say, monorail)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>pillars are something mysterious and messed up. it should be completely rewritten (together with action 1/2/3 support for bridges)
16:37<supermop>yeah,
16:37<supermop>i wanted some flexibility there, but i assumed it would not be possible
16:38<supermop>I assume the bridge has no way of determining if there is something under it once it has been built
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>no
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>only slope is considered, nothing else
16:39<supermop>that is, if you had a trestle, you could not omit the pillars on a tile if a road was there
16:39<supermop>ok
16:40<supermop>giving up on that idea
16:40<supermop>can different sprites be used for different heights of pillars?
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>no
16:41<supermop>ok
16:41<supermop>not having much luck here
16:41<supermop>next question
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>afaik there's a sprite for the first level, and one for all consecutive levels
16:41<supermop>ah!
16:41<supermop>really?
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>"first" being the top one
16:42<supermop>is first closest to bridge deck, or closest to ground?
16:42<supermop>ah ok
16:42<supermop>I would like one sprite for first, one for last, and a third for aall in between
16:42<supermop>but i can live withought
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>but my knowledge of this is rather vague
16:43<supermop>sorry to be pestering you so much on it
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: really, the solution to this is exposing this to newgrf by an action1/2/3 chain with the appropriate variables
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>but nobody bothered to implement that yet...
16:43<supermop>and that needs a patch?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>worse. it needs writing a patch.
16:44<supermop>what can i do as someone who draws to help that along?
16:44<frosch123>there is only one pillar sprite, but since the bridge floor is drawn above the pillars, you can use that to overdraw the top of the pillars with something else
16:44<supermop>to fake a deck thickness?
16:45<supermop>would it be rude for me to make a wisshlist of newgrf features for bridges in the forums?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: not at all. it's always important to know what the grf coders actually want.
16:45<supermop>either in ottd suggestions or newgrf technical sub forum?
16:45<supermop>ok
16:46<frosch123>supermop: there is already some topic somewhere
16:46<supermop>here is another question:
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>newgrf technical would probably be better. depending on how technical your suggestion is
16:47<supermop>how is the railtype sprite composited on the bridge deck? that is, is it possible for some rails (monorail) to have a narrower deck?
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: ideally, you would create an example spec extension, and a testing-grf, so someone who wants to implement it has a real testing environment
16:47<supermop>ok
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>it used to be possible to have bridges for one single railtype only, but i don't know if that has changed
16:49<supermop>i would prefer that, but it seems it would rapidly eat up the availible slots
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>my intuition tells me it should be possible, but it needs to be researched
16:50<supermop>ok
16:50<supermop>lastly for now
16:52<supermop>can railtypes have unique foundations?
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, if it's possible, the bridge must know about the railtype, the railtype can't know about the bridge.
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>i know that stations can have custom foundations. don't know about railtypes
16:52<supermop>and does a tile with foundation always have to draw the flat tile over the foundation sprites?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>i know that industry tiles can choose to skip the foundation/flat tile
16:54<frosch123>rails have no custom foundations
16:54<supermop>so there is a precedent, at least in another feature type
16:54<supermop>ok
16:54<frosch123>station tiles can have custom foundations, but they need to be flat on the top if there is rail
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>i think lots of these features are disabled for railtypes out of performance concerns
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>it should be relatively easy to programatically allow it
16:56<supermop>the idea,, would be for a monorail tile's foundation sprite to be a simple pillar in the center of the tile, so if you could omit the flat tile sprite, you would have the beam appear to be raised above the slope on a column
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>TTO had a monorail bridge completely without pillars, only the rail
16:58<supermop>so if i draw a bunch of bridges that couuld be made with the above ideas, and post them, that might make it easier to convince people of the benefit of these features?
16:58<supermop>yeah
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know why they removed that in TTD
16:58<supermop>i played tto, not ttd
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>same for me
16:58<supermop>so i miss the monorail looking morre like a 60's ALWEG
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>the sand-y track base is also weird
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>but i haven't reached the monorail time in ages...
17:00<supermop>the monorail in the trench makes sense, but i'd like something more in the style of the real equipment in the 60s
17:00<supermop>and have a newgrf that introduces it as a light passenger solution in the 60s, not a high speed heavy rail in the 2000s
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17:01<Eddi|zuHause>that makes some sense, yes.
17:01<supermop>i thought of how i would balance it,
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>what i also could imagine is a tram-like monorail system, with raised monorail that doesn't block trucks
17:02<supermop>and decided that the ability of some cheaper infrastructure in return for low freight capacity woud make sense
17:02<supermop>yes,
17:02<supermop>well
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>which comes back to the problem of "allow 3 roadtypes per tile"
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>which we have discussed in lengths here
17:02<supermop>if you could make a monorail only bridges that was relatively cheap
17:03<supermop>you could run a monorail over city streets
17:03<supermop>you would just have to build little hills for signals and turns
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>it would also open the possibility of a raised/lowered lightrail system without a real layered map
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>(aka subway)
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>with the restriction that subway can only run along roads in the city, which is fairly realistic
17:05<supermop>ccan a railtype forbid junctions?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>if you mean road-crossings, yes
17:06<supermop>meaning rail junctions
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>if you mean switches in the rails, no
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>except for ski-lifts, it was never seriously considered
17:06<supermop>so that you could have concrete monorail beams, and steel beams, with only the steel beams able to make switches
17:07<supermop>with steel beam much more expensive
17:07<supermop>so that monorail itself is cheap, but complex junctions are expensive
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: might instead just make switches really expensive
17:07<supermop>is that possible?
17:08<supermop>would save a rail typee?
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think not, but it would be a serious request
17:08<supermop>ok
17:08<supermop>easier to make the case for than a junction_permitted setting?
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>there are people out there who request things like maintenance cost for rails
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>so at least you'd easily find some allies ;)
17:09<supermop>maybe not the allies that would make me look good in the eyes of the Devs though....
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>it's really not that bad ;)
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17:14<supermop>i've mentioned this idea before:
17:14<supermop>but needs actions 123
17:16<supermop>have a bridge of type x owned by company 1 change sprites if another bridge of type x owned by company 1 is built next to it
17:17<supermop>to create the appearance of a wider bridge
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17:18<@planetmaker>supermop, that needs a re-write or rather extension of the newgrf specs for bridges
17:18<@planetmaker>that'd be well-received, if done properly. But it has to be done...
17:18<supermop>but would adding action 2 support allow it?
17:18<@planetmaker>depends on the variables made available
17:18<supermop>so i know what to ask for?
17:19<@planetmaker>probably it could be done to some extend. But it'll need careful looking at
17:20<supermop>ok
17:20<supermop>sort of related question:
17:21<supermop>what are the set of railtype sprites without ballast used for?
17:21<@Rubidium>junctions, path reservations
17:21<supermop>ok
17:22<@planetmaker>junctions + path
17:22<@planetmaker>hm. slow
17:22<supermop>could a bridge use just those sprites rather than the ballast sprites?
17:23<@planetmaker>for bridges a railtype has separate sprites defined. So it could even use a 3rd type of sprites
17:23<supermop>i did not know that
17:23<@planetmaker>or it could even do that depending on the bridge sets loaded. But not depending on the bridge type
17:24<supermop>ok
17:24<supermop>sorry to be asking so many questions
17:26<@planetmaker>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/railtypes.html#railtypes-property <-- see the available graphics blocks for railtypes
17:26<@planetmaker>(scroll a bit down to the appropriate heading)
17:31<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22241 /trunk/src/ (40 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add additional to-be-used parameter to OnInvalidateData().
17:32<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22242 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_func.h window_gui.h): -Codechange: Let OnInvalidateData() decide itself what to do immediately in command scope, and what to do asynchronously in GUI-scope.
17:32<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22243 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_gui.cpp api/ai_log.cpp): -Codechange: Make AIDebugWindow::OnInvalidateData() handle command-/GUI-scope itself.
17:33<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22244 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: Make vehicle windows handle command-/GUI-scope invalidations themself (from autoreplace and refitting).
17:33<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22245 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Make vehicle lists handle command-/GUI-scope invalidations themself.
17:34<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22246 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Fix: Process order window invalidations for specific orders in command-scope.
17:34<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22247 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Update comments wrt. ForceRebuild() in command-scope.
17:35<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22248 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp misc_gui.cpp network/network_chat_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Make OnInvalidateData() process 'delete this;' already in command scope.
17:36<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22249 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp fios_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Process some more invalidation of IDs during command scope.
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18:05<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22250 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp newgrf.cpp): -Cleanup (r16378): Engines poolitems do not need a flag for validness anymore. The pool knows that on its own.
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18:16<@Terkhen>good night
18:23<@SmatZ>good night Terkhen!
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18:32<Zonta1>Good Evening or Afternoon
18:32<SpComb>those commit fests smell like git-svn to me
18:32<Zonta1>Anyone here know a way to host a City builder or some short of goal server?
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>hg might be more common around here than git
18:34<SpComb>hg can't commit to svn, I thinks
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>but yes, it's not the first time that there was a batch-commit of prepared patches
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19:18<@planetmaker>Zonta1: like any other server as well. But you'll need to write those patches first.
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20:04<supermop>hello again
20:10<supermop>If you were working in a locomotive works, would you prefer northen or southern light for natural illuminaation?
20:11<supermop>thaat is, would you want the brightest light, or the most consistent light
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20:24<confound>I've only played with the vanilla industries so far. what's a good first set of extra industries to try out?
20:26<supermop>i like FIRS
20:27<confound>I'd like some new stuff but I don't know if I want to also deal with limited cargo acceptance and stuffl ike that
20:29<supermop>Firs doesn't have limited acceptance
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>i like PBI, it has few new cargos, but acception limits and primary industries that run out
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>FIRS is the opposite, it has lots of new cargos but no acceptance limits
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>ECS has both, but also has many configuration options. use this if you want extreme micromanagement
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20:40<confound>thanks
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 14 00:00:29 2011