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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-09

---Logopened Sat Apr 09 00:00:26 2011
00:04-!-jcapinc [~jeffrey@c-76-24-83-169.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
00:05<jcapinc>Factory prducing goods has truck stations and a train stations, truck station has > 700 train station has < 100 at all times. any way to change the distrobution here? I would like to move a lot of cargo with the trains
00:08<jcapinc>anybody on?
00:18<Lachie>supermop: show?
00:27<supermop>?
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01:58<dihedral>good morning
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02:50<dihedral>Rubidium, the admin port is not opened if the password is not set at the time of starting the dedicated server
02:50<dihedral>iirc the desired effect was to not accept connections if no password was set - or am i confusing something?
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04:49<flitz>good morning
04:50<flitz>what is the quickest way to find out which engine_id is assigned to each vehicle type in a current game ?
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04:54<andythenorth>flitz: I'll check...
04:54<avdg>hmm, is there really support for the android?
04:55<avdg>http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Operating_system&diff=64697&oldid=prev
04:55<andythenorth>flitz: I don't know if there even is a way...
04:56<flitz>:) thanks anyways
04:56<andythenorth>I thought newgrf debug might report it
04:56<andythenorth>flitz: is it newgrf or default vehicles?
04:57<flitz>newgrf
04:57*avdg revert the changes on the wiki
04:57<andythenorth>flitz decompile it, have a look
04:58<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:59<flitz>I didn't even know whether the engine_id is set in a newgrf or assigned when the game loads
05:00<andythenorth>newgrf ID is in newgrf
05:00<andythenorth>I don't know if they are remapped in any way by ottd though
05:03<flitz>I will see, because I know a couple of numbers already
05:03<flitz>just don't want to test-buy and print evertime I find a new one
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05:16<DoubleYou><avdg> hmm, is there really support for the android? <- I wonder if android phones have enough memory and power to play it, and the interface would be very difficult i suppose too
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05:16<avdg>DoubleYou: I reverted the change to be sure, but donno, I already thought that it would be bogus
05:19<@Alberth>it seems more a case of 'see, it is technically possible', rather than an enjoyable experience.
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05:20<DoubleYou>Alberth: would be a challenge to make it actually work and enjoyable
05:21<avdg>hmm, more bogus edits :/
05:22<@Alberth>DoubleYou: I don't consider that really feasible, many windows are already too large for such a screen
05:22<avdg>http://wiki.openttd.org/System_Requirements <- still needs some rewording, but reverted the changes of someone
05:22<@Alberth>at best you get a very crippled game compared to normal OpenTTD
05:24-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host186-236-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
05:25<@Alberth>avdg: free download sites should not be at the wiki
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05:25<Wolf01>hello
05:25<@Alberth>hello Wolf01
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05:25<avdg>k, but it was wrong if these files weren't put on the requirements at all
05:25*avdg removes links
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05:29<@Alberth>a reference to OpenGFX seems useful too
05:29<avdg>http://wiki.openttd.org/System_Requirements#All_Operating_Systems <- betterN
05:29<avdg>?
05:30<avdg>just added these
05:30<avdg>I'm not a good english writer though
05:30<guru3>i never got it working with svga lib under linux
05:30<@Alberth>yeah, just read it :)
05:31<guru3>also, not sure about those os x requirements
05:31<FauxFaux>Yeah so my new monitor turned up, and the first widescreen game I could think of was openttd. /o\ http://faux.uwcs.co.uk/openttd-widerr.png
05:31<guru3>i'm pretty sure it doesn't run happily on my g4 because of the graphics card and how the accelerated drivers happen
05:31<@Alberth>I would remove the warning and explain that you can either use the free Open* files, or the original TTDX files
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05:32<guru3>i'd say you need at least a 500 mhz g4 with at least a radeon 9200 or nvidia 4 series card
05:33<andythenorth>Terkhen: hi hi
05:33<guru3>which generally goes hand in hand with 10.3, but not always
05:33<avdg>just mix a few sentences :p
05:33<@Alberth>guru3: I would not even consider using svgalib
05:33<@Alberth>much too dangerous
05:33<guru3>i tried it once on some aged hardware
05:34<guru3>you can get it working with 32mb of ram though
05:34<guru3>at least you could maybe a year or two ago
05:34<guru3>(linux ofc)
05:35<guru3>and does it really require directx on windows? surely it just uses the sdl.dlls?
05:35<avdg>better now?
05:35<__ln__>and what does sdl use then if not directx?
05:35<guru3>hmm well got a point there
05:36<avdg>__ln__: then it should use opengl, if sdl has support for it
05:36<guru3>also a point
05:37<__ln__>i'm not aware of SDL being able to draw its stuff on OpenGL.
05:37<guru3>i think i'd also say at this point 233 mhz mmx p1 as the minimum for the cpu
05:37<guru3>sdl + opengl does work for 3d
05:37-!-amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B107CAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:37<__ln__>openttd is not 3d
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05:37<guru3>yes i know, but i was giving an example
05:37<@Alberth>avdg: better indeed. thanks
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05:38<guru3>but maybe sdl uses gdi under windows for 2d?
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>reading the documentation to your GRF
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>bäh
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>ignore me
05:38<guru3>(so says wikipedia)
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05:41<__ln__>sounds slow
05:42<andythenorth>Terkhen: thought any more of rv-wagons?
05:42<andythenorth>wondering what I should do for HEQS 2...
05:42<guru3>ive seen pretty good 2d performance from gdi before... i seem to remember that basiliskII uses it
05:43<@Alberth>andythenorth: finish HEQS 1 ?
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05:43<andythenorth>Alberth: what else could 1.0 mean? :P
05:43<@Alberth>:)
05:43<andythenorth>there are two options
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>guru3: afaik the game needs directx only for midi output, everything else is GDI [sdl is not used on windows by default]
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05:44<andythenorth>(1) try and make the best possible articulated vehicles in current spec, using multiple refits for capacity etc
05:44<andythenorth>(2) wait for rv-wagons and avoid lots of complications
05:44<@Terkhen>andythenorth: sorry, I have been quite busy lately
05:45<andythenorth>Terkhen: I understand :) I'm not saying 'hurry up', just wondering if it's a viable project...
05:45<andythenorth>can it be broken into small enough pieces?
05:45<guru3>Eddi|zuHause: interesting about the midi, never knew that
05:45<@Terkhen>I think it is viable, just a quite long one :)
05:45<andythenorth>so is a decent newgrf
05:45<andythenorth>I started HEQS in 2008...
05:46<@Terkhen>the problem is that the first piece is still quite big... adapting road vehicle code and GUI to use wagons
05:46-!-Cozzie [~Cozzie@C-61-68-168-182.bur.connect.net.au] has quit []
05:46<andythenorth>could we ignore the GUI for now?
05:46<andythenorth>and just convert current arv instructions to use wagons properly
05:47<andythenorth>so GUI and newgrf interface are initially unchanged...
05:47<@Terkhen>my plan was to unify as much code as possible before touching the GUI at all, yes
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05:48<@Terkhen>right now IIRC there is a dummy "wagon" flag for road vehicles, after unifying vehicle state with trains
05:48<andythenorth>I am correct in understanding that current a-rv implementation is not same as proper arbitrary consists of engines + wagons?
05:49<andythenorth>or is that a misunderstanding?
05:52<@Terkhen>I have not checked the code thoroughly enough to know for sure... but the code of road vehicles and trains is quite similar already
05:53<@Terkhen>I don't think that it would work right now... there must be some problems waiting but I think they would be solvable
05:54<@Terkhen>the most time consuming part is profiling the changes, though
06:01<guru3>so right, is it ok if i edit the system requirements a bit?
06:01<flitz>general concern: my programming-todo list keeps getting longer instead of shorter while working :/
06:02<avdg>flitz: prioritize?
06:02<flitz>only important things in it, bugs and stuff
06:02<avdg>having too much todo's is imo always good if you don't know what to do
06:02<andythenorth>Terkhen: I'm going out now, might be back later if it helps...
06:03<andythenorth>bye
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06:03<avdg>flitz: you have to cut what goes in and what not I think
06:03<avdg>*cut off
06:04<@Alberth>flitz: a common problem, but not too bad, you can pick what you like best :)
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06:08<guru3>you know ttd aparently, along with windows 2000, was not compatible with ati radeon graphics card?
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06:24<Zuu>guru3: Do we have TTD specs on the OpenTTD wiki?
06:25<guru3>aparently
06:25<guru3>ive updated them some based on my experience
06:46<avdg>well, the system requirements depends on how big the size of the map is in general right?
06:47<guru3>that's mostly a ram requirement
06:47<guru3>cpu depends on the size of your company
06:47<avdg>so maybe better to tell what the *expected* requirements are for lets say 128^2
06:47<@Alberth>ttdx used 256^2 afaik
06:47<avdg>cpu depends also on what is available in the map (but bigger maps
06:47<avdg>
06:47<guru3>how about 2^8?
06:47<avdg>bleh
06:47<avdg>requires faster more cpu)
06:48<avdg>hmm, I was not aware of what the default map size was
06:48<guru3>256x256, or 2^8
06:49<avdg>guru3: on what did you "tested" these specs
06:49<guru3>by tested do you mean what openttd settings did i have with what hardware?
06:49<avdg>yeah
06:50<guru3>hrm, tough to answer
06:50<avdg>or we can just remove the specs and say it should run with any "modern" computer
06:50<guru3>running openttd is generally one of my tests of any new computer i setup
06:50<guru3>so ive hit a huge range of hardware over the years
06:50<avdg>openttd as benchmark :p
06:50<guru3>well i run it because it's generally low spec :)
06:52<guru3>i either use a 2^6, 2^7, or 2^8 map
06:52<guru3>at 64x64 tiles it's small, but still playable
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06:54<guru3>i last tested with a p1 around 0.7 i think
06:54<guru3>actually i think most of my last testing was with around 0.7
06:54<guru3>but i dont think the specs have changed much since then
06:55<avdg>what about this "OpenTTD can run on any modern computer, but bigger maps and maps with many constructions needs more memory and cpu then smaller and empty maps" or something
06:55<avdg>since I think its hard to define the stats the right(tm) way
06:56<guru3>i think seeing the specs written out is good
06:57<avdg>in meaning of that multiple people can set a min spec (so how do we measure that)
06:57<guru3>but maybe a notice saying that this are true minimums
06:57<guru3>or really, openttd has been known to run on hardware as old as
06:57<guru3>but performance will obviously get better with a newer pc
06:57<avdg>nah, performance is not the issue
06:57<guru3>? surely it is
06:58<avdg>its about the state of the map in most cases
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06:58<guru3>performance == how well the game plays
06:58<Chrill>OpenTTD maps bigger than 512x512 struggle on my 2.13 GHz dualcore with a rather average graphics card and 2GB of ram
06:58<guru3>which depends on the map and the system specs
06:58<Chrill>just sayin
06:58<guru3>you have too many trains then Chrill
06:58<Chrill>40?
06:58<guru3>err
06:59<guru3>planes/busses?
06:59<guru3>(ships even?)
06:59<Chrill>rarely use planes, very rarely ships, but maybe 100 RVs
06:59<guru3>are they going really far?
06:59<Chrill>no, mostly in the same city
06:59<guru3>um well... it should be running better than that then
06:59<Chrill>it should indeed
06:59<Chrill>but it never does
06:59<guru3>graphics card drivers?
06:59<Chrill>updated
07:00<guru3>changed blitter?
07:00<Chrill>the computer was bought in 2010 so its not that old anyway
07:00<Chrill>blitter? dont know that word
07:00<avdg>chrill: the bling bling on the map ;-)
07:00<guru3>blitter is the method openttd uses to draw to the screen
07:01<guru3>openttd -h in the cmd window for more info
07:01<Chrill>well, if I dont know about it, I suppose its very default
07:01<Chrill>admittedly, I run a high amount of NewGRFS
07:01<guru3>urgh that's probably not going to help
07:02*guru3 <3 original graphics
07:02<Chrill>I love the NARS trains though
07:02<Chrill>:D
07:02<avdg>guru3: I tend just to say that we can't measure these specs, a player can run the game on a lower hardware, but lower specs, so just specify that the requirements depends on the state of the map, just my few words about it
07:03<Chrill>OpenTTD can be too demanding for a modern computer if the map is big enough and used enough
07:03<guru3>that's entirely correct, but i think potential users need to see examples of how low we mean by low
07:03<Chrill>and it can be run on a 10 yr old machine if the map is small enough
07:03<avdg>just fix it ;-
07:03<avdg>)
07:03<guru3>the original box for ttd says 486 25 mhz :)
07:03<guru3>maybe we should post those specs? :P
07:03<Chrill>yeah, i doubt openttd would qualify :P
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07:07<avdg>brb
07:08<guru3>working on an update to the page...
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>small question: lets assume i have a GRF which checks:
07:08<Eddi|zuHause> -1 * -1 07 88 04 \7G XX XX XX XX 02
07:08<Eddi|zuHause> -1 * -1 07 88 04 \7gG XX XX XX XX 01
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't that be the same, if it just did \7GG once? or am i missing some semantics here?
07:08<Zuu>Hmm is this information on NoAI save/load depricated? http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Save/Load
07:09<Zuu>It seems OpenTTD never call the Load(..) function of my CluelessPlus AI. Both in 1.1.0 and trunk.
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>according to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7 \7G is "is active", \7gG is "is not yet, but will be active" and "\7GG" is "is or will be active"
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07:12<Zuu>Hmm, now save/load works again for a new game but not for the one I created an hour ago. So possible ignore my complaint :-p
07:13<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: maybe when the grf was coded \7GG didn't exist
07:14<Zuu>Or is it that Save() fails to be called when the AI is stuck deep in some code?
07:16<guru3>i have to ask, when was the last time anyone actually saw a copy of ttd in a bargain bin?
07:16<guru3>i found mine in 2003 i think
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07:19<Zuu>I never been at a game shop in ages. Except for one time 3-4 years ago when I bought SimCity4.
07:19*Chrill shops for Zuu
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07:19<Chrill>@ Spelia
07:19<guru3>i should point out that that 2003 was the first time i'd seen transport tycoon in a shop since about 1997
07:20<guru3>and it was in the bargain bin then too
07:20<guru3>on the flip side ive new got 3 copies of transport tycoon (floppy, cd, and cd with alternate graphics/world editor)
07:20<Zuu>well it is not point-and-shoot, so most people don't understand it :-p
07:20<guru3>and one copy of ttd (bargain bin windows 95 version)
07:21<guru3>the install for TT was pretty cool too
07:21<Chrill>I have the floppy TTO back home in Sweden
07:21<Chrill>somwehre, lost it :p
07:21<guru3>mine's in the attic, right next to pizza tycoon
07:21<Chrill>I remember this karting game I had on PC back in the 90s..
07:21<Chrill>4 floppy disks
07:22<guru3>which i bought with some godforsaken thought that it might be as good as TT
07:22<Chrill>i wanna play it, find it online, but cannot for the love of God remember its name
07:22<guru3>that... was not true
07:22<Chrill>anyone got any idea? :P
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07:23<guru3>nope all the computer gaming of my youth was TT
07:23<guru3>and pretty much just TT
07:23<guru3>for about 4 years
07:23<guru3>make that 6 years
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>i had more games during that time....
07:24<guru3>no strike that 5 years
07:24<guru3>something in the range anyway
07:24<guru3>i'd wake up at 6 am to play
07:24<guru3>on the weekends anyway
07:24<Chrill>lol
07:25<guru3>i was badly addicted
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>i remember when my brother got TT, we installed it in secret on our father's PC (which was faster)
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>we played all day, and deleted it before he got home
07:25<guru3>i had no trouble running on the family IBM
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>but he found out anyway
07:25<guru3>120Mhz P1, 64mb/ram
07:25<Chrill>Eddi|zuHause: you hacker you
07:26<Chrill>can old TTO savegames open in OTTD?
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>he said something like "the giveaway was that you weren't asking to install it" :p
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>[implying that we had already done so]
07:26<guru3>Chrill: yes! it's great seeing some of the shit i did way back when
07:27<guru3>need to find all my old zips with saves so i can load them up, but they're back home :(
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>guru3: yes, but with 25MHz it's not as much fun
07:27<Chrill>aww I really need to find that old junk
07:27<guru3>Eddi|zuHause... i can believe that
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>my father's PC had 60MHz
07:27<guru3>hot damn, blazing fast
07:27<guru3>486 DX series or early pentium?
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>486
07:28<guru3>the good old days before ZIF when jumpers did shit
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>the older one was 386
07:29<guru3>ouch, that's got to have been below min spec
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's ok with no vehicles, but after a few trains you notice significant slowdown
07:29<guru3>yeah makes sense
07:30<guru3>i'd always hit the 120 limit before that happened
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>the limit was 80
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>and you rather quickly reach that
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07:30<Eddi|zuHause>and the game comes to a crawl at that point...
07:31<guru3>hmmm 80 also sounds right
07:31<guru3>it's been too long since i played
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>for the next few months/years/i totally have no sense of time/... i never reached 1940 [starting 1930]
07:31<guru3>once i got the secnario editor i would create small islands
07:31<guru3>and completely fill them up
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i have savegames like that ;)
07:31<guru3>made it a real challange to build towards the end when most every tile was taken
07:32<avdg>guru3: ty btw to fix my changes
07:32<guru3>np, my last edit on the wiki was about 6 years ago it seems
07:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22302 /trunk/src/blitter/base.cpp: -Codechange: Replace a linear search with a binary search.
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07:36<guru3>now i really need to go shopping for food for lunch
07:36<guru3>toodles
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08:23*Zuu finds an interesting "feature" CluelessPlus buy more vehicles for new connections if the vehicles have higher capacity :-)
08:24<@Alberth>:)
08:25<avdg>nice feature :)
08:25<avdg>is that also because these vehicles produce higher ratings?
08:26<Zuu>at least it does use the travel time estimation in the right way so shorter connections correctly get fewer vehicles. :-)
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09:49<Eddi|zuHause>anyone got the current cargo translation table of FIRS?
09:56<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/ids.pnfo#L146 <- why do you ask?
09:58<yorick>in ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY, a uint16 is used for AdminUpdateType, but in ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_POLL, a uint8 is used
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: need to hack refit masks...
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10:10<fonsinchen>I have the perfect solution to nondeterministic orders...
10:10<fonsinchen>The only real nondeterministic ones left are conditionals
10:11<fonsinchen>everything else is solved with auto orders.
10:11-!-aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd
10:11<fonsinchen>Now for all conditional orders except those depending on load percentage I can just greedily evaluate them and hope the value won't change.
10:11<fonsinchen>For load percentage conditions I just choose a random value in each loading turn.
10:12<fonsinchen>Like this the vehicle will load for all stations it might visit.
10:12<fonsinchen>(but not for all stations in the world)
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: i had some weird effect when telling a vehicle "goto A" as sole entry
10:13<fonsinchen>when?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>yesterday, in chill's patchpack... don't know how current a snapshot it uses of cargodist
10:13<fonsinchen>What happened?
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>it unconditionally loaded cargo, and sold it when arriving again
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>A is both transfer-station as well as accepting station for the cargo
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10:15<fonsinchen>hm, bad
10:15<fonsinchen>I'll try to reproduce that when I'm done with the "next hop" rewrite.
10:30<yorick>something that might be nice: a way to determine when an rcon command sent using ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_RCON has finished without knowing the exact outputs of each of the commands
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10:51<frosch123>the lifetime of heqs trams seems a bit high
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10:52<frosch123>hmm, did that summon him :p
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>the sixth sense :p
10:53<andythenorth>tada
10:53<andythenorth>I'm not the only one who does that :P
10:53<andythenorth>frosch123 does it too
10:53<andythenorth>it's a very lovely day in the UK
10:53<andythenorth>looks just like the Temperate climate
10:54<frosch123>yeah, i am sitting in the sun and play desert :p
10:54<frosch123>just using heqs trams to transport water
10:55<supermop>hmm i wonder if it will look bad to post a new thread for just one wip image
10:56<supermop>that is not related to either of the other projects i have going
10:56<supermop>might look unfocused
10:56<supermop>but i am pretty unfocused....
10:56<frosch123>hmm, are depot orders broken again...
10:57<andythenorth>supermop: nah it's fine
10:57<frosch123>they used to skip orders to the same depot they get started in
10:57<andythenorth>frosch123: when aren't depot orders broken? :P
10:57<supermop>ok
10:58<frosch123>andythenorth: started playing 2 hours ago, already got 6 issues which need urgent fixing :p
10:58<andythenorth>ho
10:58<supermop>now i need to think of another 4 letter acronym
10:58<andythenorth>you should play more often :)
10:58<frosch123>"urgent" as in "they annoy me" :p
10:58<andythenorth>frosch123: are those 6 issues for my grfs, or the game? :o
10:58<frosch123>oh, yeah, i have also one issue for heqs
10:59<frosch123>tram lifetimes of 70 years is quite high
10:59<andythenorth>frosch123: it can't make use of rv-wagons?
10:59<andythenorth>oh something else
10:59<andythenorth>frosch123: high for game, or high for RL?
10:59<supermop>do NGUP or NGMS sound bad in any languages?
10:59<andythenorth>NGUP isn't great to say
10:59<andythenorth>what is the set?
10:59<frosch123>high compared to everything else in the game
11:00<andythenorth>frosch123: 50 years?
11:00<andythenorth>I wanted to make them distinctive in some respects
11:00<supermop>well sort of an umbrella set for my grfs,
11:00<supermop>but a town set for now
11:00<supermop>is META taken?
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11:00<supermop>too pretentious?
11:01<andythenorth>no
11:01<andythenorth>just pick something you like and reverse-acronym it
11:01<supermop>ok now what can meta stand for...
11:01<supermop>modular,
11:01<frosch123>extensible
11:02<andythenorth>macro extension template attribute language
11:02<andythenorth>hmm - that's metal
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: silly thought: remove goods output of the foundry, and instead make a car factory that takes metal and mnsp and produces goods (cars)?
11:02<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: planned as an economy
11:02<andythenorth>along with auto parts of some kind
11:02<andythenorth>and maybe rubber
11:03<supermop>i want meta as short for metabolist
11:03<andythenorth>^ would need a few other cargos bounced out
11:03<supermop>but that doesnt really mean anything to ottd
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: my proposal would also work without additional cargo, though
11:04<andythenorth>yes, but it wouldn't add much...would it?
11:04<supermop>here are my older ideas:
11:04<andythenorth>and it wouldn't be available until 1920s....(maybe that's good?)
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes. around the same time as aluminium chain?
11:05<supermop>nakagin umbrella project, nakagin modular set, nakagin metabolist set, metabolist modular set
11:05<andythenorth>naps
11:05<andythenorth>Nagakin Project Set
11:06<supermop>metabolist modular (x) set, where x is this module (town, road, etc)
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>that all sounds like some esoteric church thing...
11:06<andythenorth>NAPS town
11:06<supermop>well, kurokawa is the impetus, but i dont want it to be all about just one building
11:06<andythenorth>NAPS road
11:06<andythenorth>hmmm
11:06<andythenorth>anyways
11:06*andythenorth observes SAC has taken an interesting solution to criticism?
11:07<andythenorth>a sort of "I'll take my toys away" approach
11:07<@peter1138>s/an interesting/her usual/
11:07*andythenorth sighs
11:07<andythenorth>it would have been so easily resolved
11:08<andythenorth>all she had to do was act a bit better
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>you assume what a grown-up man would have done...
11:08<andythenorth>it's a failing on my part
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>but now assume a girl who's playing with trains...
11:09<DanMacK>Hey Andy
11:09<andythenorth>hi DanMacK
11:09<andythenorth>do you want to draw some stuff?
11:10<supermop>im going to just use meta in the post, i can change it later
11:16<supermop>i guess i should keep modular as the first letter
11:17<supermop>to preserve my "brand"
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>you should register that as a trademark and sue everybody that uses it :p
11:20<supermop>ha
11:35<andythenorth>Terkhen: hi hi
11:40*andythenorth ponders
11:40<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=point_7_release#glass_works
11:40<andythenorth>needs repainting
11:40<andythenorth>company colour roof? or grey?
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause>some hints of company colour might make it look more interesting
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11:48<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
11:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'm thinking that too
11:49<andythenorth>Terkhen: can I do anything towards rv-wagons...?
11:49<andythenorth>allowing it's a long project...
11:49<andythenorth>"one commit at a time"
11:49<@Terkhen>not much for now, I guess... I don't have much time right now to continue profiling and coding new patches
11:50<@Terkhen>my final year project is due soon and it's not going as smoothly as I wanted
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11:51<andythenorth>that should have priority ;)
11:53<@Terkhen>sorry to keep you waiting, I hope to have more free time for openttd stuff in a month or so :)
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12:00<supermop_>got bumped off the imac in the middle of writing a post
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12:25<supermop>ok
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12:37<Zuu>Hmm, more than half of all CluelessPlus code exist in main.nut - or more exactly 3865 lines :-)
12:51<andythenorth>god object...?
12:54<@Alberth>who needs objects anyway ;)
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12:56<yorick>anyone interested in an (undocumented) (ugly) (basic) library for openttd admin interface communication in node.js? :)
12:58<Sacro>Yeah can do
12:58<@peter1138>OpenTTD server in node.js!
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13:03<yorick>peter1138: if you have a lot of spare time :)
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13:16<Rubidium>dihedral: having a port open but not accepting connections would cause more issues I think
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13:27<Richard52>hello
13:27<Richard52>Where are all?
13:29<@Alberth>away, in the sun
13:30<@Alberth>or busy doing other RL things
13:32<yorick>https://github.com/yorickvP/node-ottdadmin
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13:42<supermop>took me forever to post this
13:42<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=54010
13:44<supermop>that was what I was discussing earlier, Andy
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13:54<andythenorth>interestink
13:55<supermop>that is a totem to represent the idea of the town set
13:55<supermop>and the other sets as well
13:56<supermop>that one is roughly 8m/tile
13:56<supermop>other scales will be 4 and 12
13:56<supermop>4 won't really work
14:01<DanMacK>Interesting idea
14:02*DanMacK would actually make the capsules smaller
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14:07<supermop>yeah,
14:07<supermop>trying to keep it similar in proportion to the prototype
14:07<supermop>which i have walked through
14:08<supermop>but there is a case for derivation
14:08<supermop>obviously
14:08<supermop>this is only 6 levels high and is roughly as tall as i can safely make it, the real one is 13
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14:12<andythenorth>grrr
14:12<andythenorth>high-contrast buildings look better
14:13<andythenorth>even though I think they shouldn't
14:13<supermop>i should make it higher contrast/
14:13<supermop>or for firs?
14:13<andythenorth>firs
14:13<andythenorth>I'm reworking the furniture factory
14:14<supermop>so Dan, what other proportions need changing?
14:17<Richard52>Do waht you want 'cause a pirate is free...
14:17<Richard52>continue
14:20<DanMacK>I'd just say the capsules TBH
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14:23<supermop>ok
14:23<supermop>what do you think about the lower slab floor?
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14:30<andythenorth>bah
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14:40<andythenorth>improved? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=940737#p940737
14:40<supermop>i like the darkness
14:40<supermop>but the contrast seems too high
14:41<@Terkhen>I prefer the new one too
14:41<supermop>lunchtime
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14:41<andythenorth>really I should eliminate the stone bits and do it all in brick
14:41<andythenorth>but that would be boring...
14:42<andythenorth>time to do something else :)
14:42<andythenorth>DanMacK: mind if I improve the windmill?
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14:52<avdg>hmm, I have again a bugged compile (make executes a command twice)
14:52*avdg tries singlethreated
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16:08<yorick>my admin client is not receiving ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_ERROR on openttd 1.1
16:08<yorick>.0
16:08<yorick>(I checked with tcpdump)
16:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22303 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify the 'zerofill' parameter of FormatNumber() and reduce usage of magic numbers.
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm... konqueror is not liking grf2html-output with 4000 images
16:20<+glx>hehe
16:21<frosch123>:p
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16:22<frosch123>i should offer it to some browser-performance-study
16:22<Rubidium>yeah ;)
16:22<frosch123>it is also suitable for a filesystem performance study
16:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22304 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/control_codes.h table/strgen_tables.h): -Add: {DECIMAL} string code to print decimal fractions.
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16:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22305 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Add: One digit for the fractional part of train lengths in the depot view.
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>do the lang files have decimal separator meanwhile?
16:29<frosch123>long ago
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>was that used anywhere?
16:30<frosch123>e.g. for 3.5 MB to download
16:30<yorick>it appears that ServerNetworkGameSocketHandler::CloseConnection is missing "NetworkAdminClientError(this->client_id, NETWORK_ERROR_CONNECTION_LOST);"
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>i had an idea once: large money values could be shortened with something like: 15,00 Mio €, 234,5 Mrd €, etc.
16:31<Yexo>isn't that already done in a few places?
16:31<frosch123>only for SI stuff
16:31<frosch123>so k€, M€ and G€ might be possible :p
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>these prefixes should be translateable ;)
16:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22306 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt: -Fix-ish: WT3 still doesn't validate the amount of plural parameters
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16:34*yorick submits bug report
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>dbsetxl seems to have some kind of "debug mode" when the TTDPatch version is set to 0
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>it skips various compatibility checks then
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>or i am reading things wrong
16:40<asilv>maybe old versions don't have any info to check?
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17:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22307 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: When drawing the town authority window, check whether the availability of the actions changed, and force a complete redraw in that case.
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17:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22308 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Fix [FS#4574]: waiting on a server could kick the client, or rather the client would kick itself due to an unexpected packet
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17:56<@Terkhen>good night
17:58<supermop>would a replacement need to provide the same number of different houses as the original set?
18:03<supermop>oops
18:03<supermop>*town
18:03<supermop>or can it have greater or fewer?
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18:04<Rubidium>yes
18:05<supermop>i take that to mean it can have any number?
18:05<Rubidium>nope
18:05<supermop>that it can only have the original number then?
18:05<Rubidium>it must be something in the range of 1..255 (I think)
18:06<supermop>oh ok
18:06<Rubidium>(and to be pedantic: it also must be a natural number ;))
18:07<supermop>ouch!
18:08<supermop>essentially i wanted to know if i could throw something together with say4-10 buildings, just to see them in game
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you can do that
18:08<supermop>rather than code dozens first
18:08<Rubidium>then ask that instead of meta questions ;)
18:10<supermop>well the question aswers two things for me:
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18:11<supermop>can i create a quick prototype, and can I eventually exceed the default number with extra permutations of some buildings
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes and yes
18:12<supermop>good and goos
18:13<supermop>*good
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18:46<Eddi|zuHause>how evil is shortening a vehicle in a running game?
18:48<Rubidium>autoreplace happens all the time, so not at all ;)
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>what?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>if that was a joke i didn't get it...
18:50<Rubidium>autoreplace removes wagons all the time, making the whole vehicle shorter
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>no, i meant train property 21 :p
18:51<Rubidium>oh, that shortening ;)
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18:52<Rubidium>it might merely trigger some assertions, NOT_REACHEDs, GPFs and such. Most likely due to the train separating
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>so, besides the warning message upon loading the game/grf, there's no further saveguards?
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the one saying "vehicle X has wrong length"
18:55<Rubidium>except the usual things like train integrity checks and sync checks
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18:56<frosch123>i think you are relatively save as long as you send the trains to a depot before reversing them
18:56<frosch123>i.e. length only matters on reversing
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>aha. interesting. only that's very difficult with my games :p
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18:58<frosch123>lucky trains, if they cannot fall off the track in your layouts :p
18:59<frosch123>night
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18:59<Eddi|zuHause>... i'm totally not getting any jokes tonight...
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20:59<Wolf01>'night
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21:42<adamkex>what ai should i use?
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22:42<Nite>anyone on at this time?
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 10 00:00:43 2011