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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-14

---Logopened Thu Apr 14 00:00:02 2011
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02:39<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:02<@planetmaker>moin
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04:30<dihedral>oi
04:36<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
04:36<dihedral>hello Terkhen
05:07<@planetmaker>hi dihedral
05:08<dihedral>hi pm
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05:55<LordAro>how do you replace text (e.g. {{VERSION}} ) with some other text, using a makefile?
05:55<LordAro>i've looked through the firs repo, and i don't get it :)
06:02<blathijs>LordAro: I think that's done using sed
06:03<blathijs>or at least it's commonly done using sed, I don't know the FIRS build system
06:03<@planetmaker>it is done using sed
06:04<LordAro>thanks, which makefile.* is it in?
06:04<@planetmaker>scripts/Makefile_nfo:29-30
06:04<LordAro>ty
06:05<@planetmaker>and scripts/Makefile.def:152-156 somewhat
06:06<LordAro>oh, so thats where the s/somewrd/someword/ comes from :)
06:08<ZirconiumX>and ed
06:08<ZirconiumX>I think
06:10<blathijs>and perl :-)
06:14<LordAro>with sed, do you have to have an 'old file > new file'? can' you just keep the one file (i hope i'm making sense)
06:15<ZirconiumX>man sed?
06:17<@Terkhen>LordAro: no
06:17<@Terkhen>IIRC you could hack a solution using pipes, but it's faster to just do && mv new_file old_file
06:19<LordAro>thats annoying :L
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06:19<@planetmaker>afaik there are solutions with grep which can do that. But they're not necessarily cross-platform compatible
06:19<@planetmaker>Thus should be avoided as that argument is not accepted by all versions of grep
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06:21<LordAro>meh...
06:21<LordAro>my ubuntu box doesn't seem to be recognising 'let'...
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06:26<@planetmaker>LordAro: in a makefile you should not use that anyway
06:26<LordAro>that = 'let'?
06:26<@planetmaker>yes
06:26<LordAro>well you (or yexo) are the ones that gave it to me
06:27<@planetmaker>we gave you that for use in a bash script
06:27<@planetmaker>a makefile is not a bash script
06:28<LordAro>REPO_REVISION := $(shell let tmp=$(shell $(HG) id -n | cut -d+ -f1)+96; echo $$tmp) <- it sort of is...
06:28<LordAro>with shell being sh
06:29<@planetmaker>indeed, that might work that way...
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro, Terkhen: yes, sed has the "-i" parameter to modify the original file instead ("inplace")
06:29<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: but not all versions of sed support that
06:30<@Terkhen>good to know that :)
06:30<@planetmaker>at least I *think* I remember a problem with that
06:30<@planetmaker>but well, worth a try ;-)
06:31<@planetmaker>if it fails a more complicated version can still be used ;-)
06:31<LordAro>planetmaker: but it doesn't that way, with my 'bash'/'sh' but it does with the openttdcoop version
06:31<LordAro>s/doesn't/doesn't work/
06:36<LordAro>my version of bash is 4.1.5, what is openttdcoop's?
06:38<@planetmaker>sed, grep, make are not part of bash
06:39<@planetmaker>my bash version is 3.2
06:39<@planetmaker>server... dunno currently, but probably 4.x
06:41<LordAro>ok, what about 'let'?
06:42<@Terkhen>let should work in your bash version
06:43<@Terkhen>as it works in 3.2 and in 4.2.8
06:43<@planetmaker>yes. But... nesting two shell commands might be wrong
06:44<@Terkhen>LordAro: can you build unmodified FIRS?
06:44<LordAro>the error message i get is: /bin/sh: let: not found
06:44<@planetmaker>REPO_REVISION := $(shell let tmp=`$(HG) id -n | cut -d+ -f1`+96; echo $$tmp) might be better
06:45<@Terkhen>but why should it fail with that particular version of bash?
06:45<@Terkhen>if it works with older and newer versions...
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06:45<@planetmaker>Terkhen: does that line work with yours? I haven't tested actually. Or not that I remember
06:45<LordAro>dunno, i'll see if i can upgrade
06:46<LordAro>planetmaker: your line results in the same error
06:46<@planetmaker>LordAro: upgrading your bash won't solve a thing. Certainly
06:47<LordAro>?
06:48<LordAro>anyway, i g2g
06:49<@Terkhen>hmm... where is that line?
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06:55<@planetmaker>REPO_REVISION := $(shell let x=`hg id -n | cut -d+ -f1`+96; echo $$x) <-- works for me
06:57<@planetmaker>or better HG as variable: REPO_REVISION := $(shell let x=`$(HG) id -n | cut -d+ -f1`+96; echo $$x)
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06:58<Wolf01>hello
06:59<Ammler>our aircraft-carrier on the way to libya: http://a.yfrog.com/img615/4804/xepmiy.jpg
07:00<@planetmaker>:-D
07:00<Wolf01>lol
07:00<@SmatZ>:-D
07:01<@planetmaker>ymmd, Ammler :-)
07:02<Ammler>:-)
07:06<@Terkhen>hmm... I was looking for the line that LordAro pasted, but of course that is not present :)
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: never trust the navy of a landlocked country :p
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07:10<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: you know the country with best ocean sailors?
07:11<Ammler>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alinghi)
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07:14<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: you mean the part where it says "the team consisted mostly of New Zealand nationals"?
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07:15<Ammler>mäh :-)
07:16<Ammler>just "Nation: Switzerland"
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09:20<@Belugas>hello
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10:03<dihedral>hello Belugas
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12:44<pyrotechnick>hey
12:55<flitz>ho
13:01-!-andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd
13:02<andythenorth>HELLO
13:02<Sacro>WHAT HO
13:02*andythenorth has used today's allocation of caps
13:03<andythenorth>large caps that is
13:03<andythenorth>small caps is still freely available
13:03-!-enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd
13:03<pyrotechnick>im looking for anyone keen to help with a html version of openttd
13:03<@planetmaker>hELLo andythenorth
13:03<@planetmaker>lool. html version?
13:03<andythenorth>hungarian caps?
13:03<pyrotechnick>ja
13:03<pyrotechnick>like in canvas2d or in webgl
13:03<Sacro>pyrotechnick: start with <hml>
13:03<Sacro>everything goes from there
13:03<pyrotechnick>shh
13:03<confound>then add the 't'?
13:04<Sacro>or perhaps <html>
13:04<pyrotechnick>i know how to write it you scrub
13:04<Sacro>good :) that's a start
13:04<pyrotechnick>just want the help
13:04<Sacro>I ws helping
13:04<Sacro>:(
13:04<pyrotechnick>sigh
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13:05<pyrotechnick>anyway if anyone's serious please drop me a bell
13:05*andythenorth suggests screenshot -> html app
13:05<andythenorth>and run ottd as a server
13:05<pyrotechnick>im "pyrotechnick" on facebook, twitter, gmail etc
13:05-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:06<@planetmaker>pyrotechnick: I guess it needs quite a bit more to get people interested in something than "I want to do <whatever> and need help"
13:07<pyrotechnick>i guess i'm not really appealing to people who need to be forced to help lol
13:07<Sacro>forced?
13:07<confound>if that's how you want to spin it to yourself, sure
13:07<Sacro>if they're going to be forced then why bother appealing?
13:08<pyrotechnick>anyway i have a couple of comrades here, we're in the business of node.js, coffeescript, redis that kind of thing. we know our shit, if you wanna help out instead of discouraging and trolling get in touch
13:08<confound>what planetmaker's saying is that your idea as given is too unformed to grab people
13:08<KenjiE20>make a sf.net project.. I mean those just write themselves right?
13:08<pyrotechnick>its not that fucking hard dude, a clone in html
13:08<Sacro>what's the point of this venture?
13:08<confound>you are selling yourself as a great person to work with. good luck with that
13:09<pyrotechnick>thanks, i try
13:09<@planetmaker>then please start and produce some initial results. You won't find someone implementing YOUR ideas with this attitude indeed
13:09<pyrotechnick>dude its not even an idea, its a fucking clone
13:09<Sacro>well get to fucking work on it
13:09<andythenorth>ho ho
13:09<pyrotechnick>fuck yeah!
13:09*andythenorth is going to bath the fucking baby :)
13:09<__ln__>20:03 < pyrotechnick> im looking for anyone keen to help with a html version of openttd <-- ffs, i was drinking soda when i read that
13:10<pyrotechnick>you guys know what html is capable of these days right?
13:10<KenjiE20>don't forget to put your keyboard in the sun __ln__
13:10<pyrotechnick>between canvas2d and webgl
13:10<pyrotechnick>it's as capable as any platform at doing openttd at least
13:10<pyrotechnick>it may not be as performant but it's certainly going to be playable
13:11<KenjiE20>isn't webgl not html, it's just a thing a browser can do
13:11<pyrotechnick>who cares
13:11<confound>my skepticism is about "it's just a clone", not about the technology involved
13:11<KenjiE20>well you're not doing it in HTML then are you?
13:11<pyrotechnick>it uses the canvas tag
13:11<pyrotechnick>which is html
13:11<pyrotechnick>im not sure what else to call it but html
13:11<@Alberth>ha ha !
13:11<confound>so java and flash are also html now
13:11<pyrotechnick>theyre plugins you tool
13:12<KenjiE20>so perl is C?
13:12<pyrotechnick>dude seriously just stfu if you dont have anything constructive to say
13:12<@planetmaker>pyrotechnick: please watch your tongue, ok?
13:12<@Alberth>KenjiE20: no, it is html
13:12<KenjiE20>ah
13:12<__ln__>pyrotechnick: have you already implemented a "Hello World" program using the technique you are talking about?
13:13<@planetmaker>and __ln__ 's advice is a good thing
13:13<andythenorth>this is fun
13:13*andythenorth was looking for a nice drama
13:13<@Alberth>since both allow nesting of language constructs
13:13<pyrotechnick>what technique __ln__? canvas2d?
13:13<andythenorth>it was a boring day so far
13:13<__ln__>pyrotechnick: i think you should know best what technique you are talking about yourself.
13:14<@planetmaker>andythenorth: I hope you have a cold beer and some popcorn at hand?
13:14*KenjiE20 has warm beer and cold popcorn, that do?
13:14<pyrotechnick>__ln__: i've made a fair bit in webgl/canvas over the last 18 months
13:14<pyrotechnick>have a couple of things on youtube if you're keen
13:14<andythenorth>I have a cold baby and a warm bath
13:14<@planetmaker>you British are strange. Everything which suits you ;-)
13:14<KenjiE20>lol
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13:14<andythenorth>btw canvas and webgl can do some impressive stuff
13:15<pyrotechnick>yes they can
13:15<pyrotechnick>http://github.com/mrdoob/three.js
13:15<andythenorth>it's probably possible to do this
13:15<@Alberth>andythenorth: as long as you don't drink the baby, you'll be fine
13:15<pyrotechnick>this is an engine we're contributing to
13:15<andythenorth>but this might not be the way to go about it...
13:15<pyrotechnick>it can certainly pull off something like openttd
13:15<pyrotechnick>i think i'd use a 3d API though even if it's only sprite based
13:15<pyrotechnick>better on the processor
13:16<pyrotechnick>which we've found to almost universally be the the bottleneck
13:16<pyrotechnick>unless you're doing something stupid or insane in your shaders
13:16<andythenorth>pyrotechnick: the issue isn't the technology, it's the size of the project
13:17<andythenorth>ottd is large and complex
13:17<pyrotechnick>yeah im not saying this client would be compatible with openttd
13:17<pyrotechnick>when i say clone i merely mean a game heavily inspired
13:17<__ln__>what would be the actual advantage of running openttd in a browser, compared to the current way?
13:17<pyrotechnick>and besides
13:17<pyrotechnick>well for starters you get platform agnosticism for free
13:17<pyrotechnick>no need to install/update
13:17<@planetmaker>OpenTTD's code size certainly is the equivalent of several man-years
13:18<pyrotechnick>there's also emscripten
13:18<pyrotechnick>which is an llvm backend for javascript
13:18<pyrotechnick>so you can automatically translate c/c++ into js
13:18<pyrotechnick>which should help with some of the AI and more time-tested, backend stuff
13:18<Sacro>What platforms can run a browser with webgl but not openttd?
13:18<@planetmaker>AIs are squirrel. Mind that
13:18<@Alberth>people have tried to use 3d stuff on the current engine locally at the desktop, and got nowhere
13:18<pyrotechnick>im not saying it would be in 3d
13:19<pyrotechnick>im saying id use a 3d api
13:19<@Alberth>current openttd is also not 3d
13:19<pyrotechnick>i know dude
13:19<@Terkhen>that's what people tried with OpenTTD too :)
13:19<pyrotechnick>listen
13:19<KenjiE20>Sacro has a point
13:19<@planetmaker>2.5D rocks ;-)
13:19<pyrotechnick>im not saying make it 3d
13:19<pyrotechnick>im saying use a 3d api to draw the 2d
13:19<Sacro>KenjiE20: for once
13:19<pyrotechnick>much better on cpu, especially in browsers
13:19<KenjiE20>yes
13:19<@Alberth>so what do you think the other people tried?
13:19<KenjiE20>also I remember seeing OTTD on a DS
13:20<pyrotechnick>Sacro: im not saying that's an absolute advantage, just that it would help out in reducing the number of man-years it would take
13:20<pyrotechnick>yeah i have played it on iOS
13:20-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:20<pyrotechnick>it's way too finicky
13:20<pyrotechnick>that's why a clone wouldnt work
13:20<pyrotechnick>it would have to be slightly redesigned
13:20<@planetmaker>pyrotechnick: in that case I suggest to start with out-sourcing the graphics work from the CPU to the GPU in the normal OpenTTD code
13:20<@Terkhen>pyrotechnick: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38151
13:21<pyrotechnick>planetmaker: why?
13:21<pyrotechnick>i'm not a native coder
13:21<pyrotechnick>i wouldn't get too far
13:21<@planetmaker>I wasn't born a coder either
13:21<@Alberth>if it works anywhere, it is in the native environment. Also, it eases porting later
13:22<pyrotechnick>i mean i dont mind getting my hands dirty with that kind of thing, i've written a few bindings for node but i dont really enjoy it
13:22<pyrotechnick>im sure openttd is faster with a 2d api than 3d
13:22<pyrotechnick>but that's not something i've found holds true in html
13:22-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:22<@planetmaker>how dirty do think you'd get when porting this stuff to whatever web code you envision?
13:23<pyrotechnick>im not sure how to answer? as much as i could?
13:23-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db80a59.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:23<@planetmaker>And for the very reason Alberth gives, it might give a taste of what you're up to
13:24<pyrotechnick>yeah it just seems like i wouldnt get too much out of doing it, and havent others done it already? isnt that what this thread is about?
13:24<@planetmaker>and if you then still think it's interesting you a) won something for your project - and if not, the project as a whole might have won something nevertheless
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13:25<@planetmaker>the important posting is this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=738802#p738802
13:25<@planetmaker>Thus: no one really tried finish such implementation earnestly
13:26<pyrotechnick>i understand, as i said, i understand it's not faster in 3d when it comes to doing things natively
13:26<pyrotechnick>what i'm saying is that in our experience doing sprites in webgl runs circles around canvas2d
13:26<pyrotechnick>in terms of performance and efficiency
13:26<@planetmaker>I'm not talking about speed. I'm talking about making it work properly. Irrespective of speed.
13:26<@planetmaker>Only when it works properly, then speed can be compared
13:26<pyrotechnick>define properly?
13:27<@planetmaker>Display stuff in the way other blitters do
13:27<@planetmaker>without bugs and alike.
13:27<pyrotechnick>well this doesnt even exist yet of course it doesnt work properly
13:27<pyrotechnick>im not sure i see your point
13:28<@planetmaker>that's my point. Try that for a start. You'll need the very same thing for your project
13:28<pyrotechnick>anyway this place sucks everyones on a downer and gets off on discouragement, enjoy eachothers "company"
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13:28<KenjiE20>oh no, the real world, quick hide
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13:29<@planetmaker>Somehow I knew it'd end this way :-)
13:30<KenjiE20>when, not if :)
13:30<@Terkhen>someone does not know how to handle criticism :)
13:30*DanMacK wonders what he missed
13:30<@planetmaker>DanMacK: "WebOpenTTD"
13:30<confound>that was bizarre
13:30<@planetmaker>and the guy who calls the channel thickheads pointing out the related problems instead of jumping up and down "great idea"
13:31<confound>I don't have a problem with "webopenttd" per se, but his attitude was terrible
13:31<@planetmaker>quite
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13:31<@peter1138>yar
13:31<@Terkhen>yes
13:32<flitz>funny guy
13:32<@planetmaker>indeed I think starting with an OpenGL blitter or similar might give him an idea on the scope of his "idea"
13:32<flitz>do you have such ones around often ?
13:32<@planetmaker>it's not new either
13:32<@planetmaker>from time to time
13:32<confound>any time someone's like "it's just a clone of <whatever>, it'll be easy" it is difficult to think they have any idea what they're talking about
13:33<confound>unless "whatever" is minesweeper or tictactoe or some other such trivial program
13:33<@peter1138>his idea is fine, and probably achieveable, but... sucky attitude
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13:34*DanMacK would rather see custom airports in OTTD :P
13:34<@planetmaker>DanMacK: I could use rotated airport sprites for a starter.
13:35<@planetmaker>That's feasible. But no single person ever drew the other 3 rotation states
13:35<DanMacK>Open or Original GFX?
13:35<@Alberth>45 degrees counter-clockwise?
13:35<@planetmaker>Coding of them granted. OpenGFX style preferred
13:35<@planetmaker>Alberth: 90° rotations work
13:36<@planetmaker>But... if all 4 rotations are supplied... nearly any style would do
13:36*DanMacK looks at graphics now
13:36<@planetmaker>not all sprites need re-drawing, of course. But buildings
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13:37<@planetmaker>one of the features longest left un-used by newgrfs which I know :-)
13:39<DanMacK>well, the large hanger has 4 views, that's a start :P
13:39<@planetmaker>two exist already
13:39<frosch123>[19:35] <planetmaker> That's feasible. But no single person ever drew the other 3 rotation states <- didn't actually skidd drew all of them?
13:39<@planetmaker>at least for the large(r) airports
13:39-!-lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has joined #openttd
13:39<@planetmaker>frosch123: not that I know.
13:40<@planetmaker>IIRC Yexo has all of his sprites and it doesn't suffice for implementing the rotations
13:40<frosch123>what's missing in the sprites of act5 type 0x10? except the small airport stuff?
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13:41<frosch123>there are hangars for all directions, and the runway for the other direction
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13:41<frosch123>what else needs rotating?
13:41<@planetmaker>airport buildings
13:42<frosch123>at least the default airport buildings are symmetric
13:42<@planetmaker>that doesn't help for 3x1 buildings
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13:44<Sacro>@seen ludde
13:44<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen ludde.
13:44<@planetmaker>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=2633:2691 <-- these sprites exist for default airports. Thus runways would need the other direction, too
13:44<@planetmaker>though that's very easy to achieve :-)
13:44<frosch123>planetmaker: for default graphics the runway already exists in the other direction
13:44<frosch123>it's even included in openttd.grf
13:45<@planetmaker>I wonder for what reason
13:45<frosch123>and sprites 2650 and 2654 are replace each other for default graphics
13:45<frosch123>planetmaker: richk's airport messing?
13:46<@Alberth>that was a branch :p
13:47<@planetmaker>yes, they could
13:47<frosch123>Alberth: i mean the 3 of the 6 airports which made it into trunk
13:47<frosch123>heliports, intercontinental, consumer and such things
13:47<DanMacK>so it looks like the small airport buildings are all that needs to be done
13:48<frosch123>DanMacK: i guess also the "tunnels"
13:48<DanMacK>for the most part
13:49<@Alberth>frosch123: I didn't know that. Nice
13:50<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=423843#p423843 <- that's the origin of those sprites
13:50<frosch123>hmm, maybe richk drew them even himself
13:51<frosch123>anyway, those airports are from long before the branch
13:51<andythenorth>next time someone comes in with 'stfu' etc...
13:51*andythenorth might move straight to 'fuck off'
13:51<frosch123>resp. the branch was started because the evil devs did not want to include all those weirdly shaped airports :p
13:51*frosch123 was not involved :)
13:52<flitz>kickbot ? ^^
13:52<@DorpsGek>hmm?
13:53<DanMacK>Who said STFU Andy?
13:53<andythenorth>the other bloke
13:53<andythenorth>he's gone now :)
13:53<DanMacK>ahhh
13:53<andythenorth>anyways...
13:54<andythenorth>which furniture factory should I ship? I've gone snow blind...
13:55<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=941623#p941623
13:56<frosch123>the first one looks better, the second one might fit better :p
13:56<andythenorth>that's my opinion
13:56<Zuu>Doesn't flyspray use the same user account database as the website? At lesat that is what I remember, but I could be wrong.
13:58-!-KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-123-22.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:02<frosch123>Zuu: translator, bananas, wiki and bugs are the same ldap
14:03<Zuu>Then, isn't the last answer on the translater faq wrong? http://translator.openttd.org/en/faq
14:04<Zuu>It states that you need to create another account for bugs.
14:05<Zuu>Also question #2 could possible be updated to reflect that an account from one of bananas, wiki or bugs can be used. (if anyone feels like doing it of course)
14:06*andythenorth proposes a topic change
14:06<andythenorth>"swearing will result in kick (exceptions will be made for witty swearing)
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14:14<confound>heh
14:18-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
14:18-!-Mucht is "Martin Nussbaumer" on @#JJ @+#openttdcoop.association @#openttdcoop.dev #wwottdgd #openttd @#tycoon.de @#openttdcoop
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14:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "farm supplies" (ca. 1938) http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/3629.jpg :)
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14:37<andythenorth>hi
14:38<andythenorth>ho
14:38<andythenorth>it's off to work they go
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14:41*andythenorth just misread 'dredging site' as 'dragon site'
14:41<andythenorth>which could be an interesting industry
14:41<andythenorth>toyland -> tolkein crap
14:41*DanMacK thought of that
14:42*andythenorth is not a tolkein fan
14:42<andythenorth>but liked warcraft 1 a lot
14:42<DanMacK>not necessarily "tolkien", but generic fantasy
14:42*Hendikins grumbles about aircraft being too easy.
14:43<DanMacK>http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/130/iron-dragon
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>Hendikins: try aircraft combined with cargodist :p
14:43<DanMacK>Are you playing with default aircraft or Av8?
14:44<Hendikins>Eddi|zuHause: I'm playing on some random server.
14:45<Hendikins>And it is the usual story. Drop a few airports, put on a few planes, mega cashflow.
14:46<andythenorth>does it blend? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/furniture_factory_rework.png
14:46<andythenorth>not so much 'is it like default industry' as 'does it fit in' ??
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14:47<Eddi|zuHause>looks good...
14:47<confound>yeah
14:48<andythenorth>without fences / custom ground tiles I think that's as far as I can go
14:48<andythenorth>I can knock the water tanks off the roof
14:48<andythenorth>they stand out a bit
14:48<andythenorth>good / bad idea?
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see anything wrong with them...
14:49<andythenorth>I could use pure black for the arch shadow. that's what SF does.
14:49<andythenorth>but I don't like it :P
14:51*andythenorth tests
14:51<andythenorth>yup, looks rubbish with pure black
14:54<@Belugas>shit, i missed that pyrotechnic guy
14:54<@Belugas>that would have been fun to intervene
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14:55<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: is that one good enough to be a benchmark? (± ground tiles & fences)
14:55<andythenorth>?
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>don't know what that even means...
15:00<@planetmaker>andythenorth: you can use it as a style guide quite fine
15:00<andythenorth>that's what I meant :)
15:00<andythenorth>I need one that's agreed to be good enough
15:00<andythenorth>otherwise I'm going to go insane with tweaks back and forth
15:01-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:02<andythenorth>and as SF is not consistent in his graphics, simply copying will never produce a 100% correct answer :)
15:03<Hendikins>In better news, a 27" 2560x1440 display is great fun for ottd.
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause>when have i last mentioned this feature request? http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/3977.jpg
15:59<andythenorth>animated bridge?
15:59<andythenorth>follows the locomotive?
15:59<andythenorth>or a moving depot?
15:59<frosch123>did someone suggest a falkirk wheel, but for trains?
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>oh, andythenorth: one of the firs requests: coal mine accepts wood/wdpr/bdmt?
16:00<andythenorth>nope ;)
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>1 down, 2 to go :p
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16:04<@Alberth>frosch123: I saw a design for one as container transport at a harbour not so long ago, does that count too?
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>BR05 in "camouflage" look: http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/4113.jpg why is that not in the DBSet? :p
16:06<Ammler>in 1.0 maybe
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: well, MB said he removed the BR05 completely
16:07<@Alberth>you would not be able to see the engine anymore, as it would blend into the background
16:07<@Alberth>besides who needs camouflage in OpenTTD, nobody is going to shoot at it :)
16:08<frosch123>the br05 is the fast read one in 0.8?
16:08<frosch123>-a
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: his reason is that he can use the BR61/Henschel-Wegman-Zug to limit the consists that the engine can be used, to prevent it from being overpowered
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16:32<andythenorth>Alberth: UFO
16:32<andythenorth>shoots
16:33<@Alberth>like camouflage would work with aliens :)
16:35*andythenorth now has to redraw rest of FIRS :o
16:38<@Alberth>:(
16:38<andythenorth>actually some of it was right first time
16:39<andythenorth>like the Brewery
16:39<andythenorth>don't know why / how I screwed up some of the others
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16:45<@Terkhen>good night
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16:46<andythenorth>night Terkhen
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17:15<jimidennis24>How do I get vehicles for openttd stable version? Just downloaded today and I have no available vehicles or depots
17:15<@SmatZ>hello jimidennis24, what year do you start at?
17:15<@SmatZ>first vehicles are available in ~1930
17:15<jimidennis24>ive tried 1950 and 2050
17:15<@SmatZ>jimidennis24: can you build road?
17:18<jimidennis24>i got it...thank you!!
17:18<jimidennis24>i was doing it wayy wrong
17:19<Zuu>Good night
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17:19<@SmatZ>:-)
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17:54<@SmatZ>@calc sqrt(935930884)
17:54<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 30592.9874971
17:55<@SmatZ>@calc sqrt(935930884+2**32)
17:55<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 72324.9485309
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20:23<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 15 00:00:19 2011