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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-16

---Logopened Sat Apr 16 00:00:36 2011
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01:28<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: OzTrans is correct, OpenTTD does not implement var 41 completely according to the spec
01:33<@planetmaker>moin
01:33<@planetmaker>Yexo: by intention or oversight?
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01:55<andythenorth>moornings
01:57<@planetmaker>moin andythenorth
01:58<andythenorth>some FIRS ground tiles need some kind of road or road markings or something
01:59<andythenorth>such as in front of the stockyard http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/industries?economy=point_7_release#meat_packer
01:59<@Terkhen>good morning
01:59<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
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02:28<andythenorth>drawing actual road onto industry tiles is a bad idea yes / no?
02:29<@planetmaker>it's not the best
02:29<@planetmaker>you'd have to taylor it for a particular road style. Which may vary between climates and newgrfs and base sets
02:30<@planetmaker>all of the three concurrently actually
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02:56<dn-phoenix>Hi. I was wondering how you make these drive-thru stations: http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Drive-thru_station -- when I try that, the two stations I make become two different stations...
02:57<@planetmaker>try ctrl+click
02:57<@planetmaker>or build one station and delete parts later
02:58<dn-phoenix>Thanks. That did the trick. :-) That should probably be mentioned nearby.
02:58<@planetmaker>it is. In the tooltip
02:58<MMavipc>tooltips take too long to appear
02:58<MMavipc>i'm always waiting
02:58<MMavipc>and waiting
02:58<MMavipc>and waiting
02:58<@planetmaker>then chang the time to 1 s or right click
02:59<dn-phoenix>Aha. See, I don't get tooltips either. Until now, with the right click.
02:59<@planetmaker>it was changed somewhen from right click to hover-over
02:59<@planetmaker>(the default behaviour; it can be reverted via adv. settings to right click)
03:01<MMavipc>anyone want to get a small co-op game going?
03:05<@planetmaker>join the coop welcome server ;-)
03:05<@planetmaker>he, well, or the main server :-P
03:06<MMavipc>ottd has a main server?
03:06<@planetmaker>openttdcoop
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03:07<MMavipc>ooh
03:07<@planetmaker>it has a public server (=main server) and a stable or welcome server
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03:12*andythenorth isn't sure how much greebles to add to ground tiles
03:12<andythenorth>mostly default game doesn't have much
03:12<andythenorth>except a few cases
03:15<@planetmaker>greeble?
03:17<@planetmaker>it's a word I nor my dictionaries know
03:18<@planetmaker>hm... found it
03:19<@planetmaker>IMHO the default has a lot of them. Just look at a plain grass or mud tile. It's all greeble and nothing else ;-)
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03:42<@peter1138>ottdcoop does small games now?
03:46<@planetmaker>what is "small"?
03:46<@planetmaker>We have a somewhat unwritten limit of < 1M tiles
03:47<@planetmaker>and very often not even that, rather 0.25M tiles or so
03:47<@planetmaker>or 0.5M
03:47<@peter1138>see, anything bigger than 256x256 is large
03:47<@planetmaker>:-)
03:48<@planetmaker>ok, then anything > 1M is huge. So we might do large games most often. But we've seen normal games then, too
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03:48<@peter1138>i liked that ad-hoc coop game i played with sacro once
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03:48<@planetmaker>somewhat our default size is 512^2
03:49<@planetmaker>it makes for sufficient space for all people and a decent network. With two people it may take much longer though to really build such map
03:49<V453000>more than that size is just needless :)
03:49<@planetmaker>small maps make for a very nice challenge though in terms of getting profits up
03:50<@planetmaker>yep
03:50<V453000>profits are the last thing that matters :) the game is faster on smaller maps overall
03:50<V453000>people dont get bored, lazy or whatever
03:50<@peter1138>heh
03:50<@planetmaker>quite right :-)
03:50<@peter1138>a 128x128 map with 3 towns is hard to make a profit on :)
03:50<@planetmaker>also quite right :-)
03:50<V453000>with correct vehicles ...
03:51<V453000>although I remember having a savegame with 1 town 64x64, quite many vehicles and still no problem
03:51<@planetmaker>I *think* there are always two towns, if possible
03:51<@planetmaker>but I might be wrong
03:51<@peter1138>sure you can make a profit, but as there's no scope for ever-expansion, you have to rely on factories to provide huge output
03:51<@peter1138>er, industries
03:51<V453000>planetmaker: scenario :)
03:51<@planetmaker>:-)
03:52<V453000>but you can have 1 town through the "custom" in town amount
03:53<@planetmaker>indeed. I guess I literally never used "custom town amount"
03:53<V453000>not very useful :)
03:54<@planetmaker>oh, it can, I think. For scenario making ;-)
03:54<@planetmaker>Or when you urgently want to use that town name newgrf which only has 88 town names on a HUGE map.
03:54<@planetmaker>(and which I heart has both Constantinople and Istanbul :-P )
03:55<V453000>:D
03:55<V453000>thats awesome
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03:55*andythenorth plays smaller maps
03:56<V453000>small is fun :)
03:56<andythenorth>except with canadian set
03:56*V453000 does never play with canadian set
03:56<andythenorth>then you're really obliged to connect vancouver and newfoundland
03:56*andythenorth is big fan of canadian set
03:56<andythenorth>eh
03:58<V453000>it is nice, but the wagon speed limits are just stupid
03:59<@Terkhen>I hate playing with wagon speed limits :/
03:59<@planetmaker>so do I
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04:00<@planetmaker>and I dislike forced incompatibility between newgrfs
04:01<V453000>canset is compatible afaik
04:01<@planetmaker>but then... for my games which I actually play (and not just newgrf-test) a newgrf which is not on bananas usually does not exist ;-)
04:01<V453000>NARS isnt by default, but that is possible to disable with parameter
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04:01<@planetmaker>0.3 is indeed
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06:08<dihedral>oi
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06:14<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
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06:19*andythenorth is impressed by canadian stations teaser
06:30*frosch123 senses unfree vapourware
06:30<@Terkhen>heh
06:31<andythenorth>he'll ship it
06:31<andythenorth>he always ships in the end
06:31*andythenorth gives OzTrans a free pass because he bitches at trunk devs, not me :P
06:32<frosch123>aren't those the sets which do not work with anything else togehter?
06:32<andythenorth>yes
06:32*andythenorth doesn't care as long as they're good :)
06:32<andythenorth>also it's fun how he's so grumbly about ottd :)
06:32<frosch123>:p
06:33<frosch123>he is also gumbly about ttdp
06:33<andythenorth>complete absence of any gratitude is very amusing
06:33<andythenorth>frosch123: did you see this fs? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4591
06:34<frosch123>yes, but i did not see yexo since then
06:34<frosch123>i think it is fine
06:35<andythenorth>great :)
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06:37<Wolf01>hello
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07:00<flitz>for people who know gui: what would I use instead of a 1-line-matrix ? a panel ?
07:01<flitz>to draw sprites and text onto and to be able to select those sprites by clicking on them
07:05<dihedral>planetmaker, loved your zip on a mac how to :-D
07:06<fonsinchen>I wonder ... some weeks ago people were making a big fuss about FS#4540. Now I've provided a very simple patch to fix it and hardly anyone seems to be interested ...
07:06<dihedral>@fs 4540
07:06<@DorpsGek>dihedral: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4540
07:06<dihedral>... for the lazy :-P
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07:10<frosch123>flitz: take a look at object gui
07:10<frosch123>NWID_MATRIX
07:15<Guest2034>dihedral: https://github.com/yorickvP/node-ottdadmin <-- :)
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07:15<dihedral>i assume Guest2034 to be yorick?
07:15<Guest2034>hrm
07:16<Guest2034>yes
07:16<flitz>frosch123: so I should use a one-line-matrix ?
07:16-!-Guest2034 is now known as yorick
07:16<frosch123>yes
07:17<frosch123>it can have any number of rows and columns
07:17<dihedral>js eh?
07:18<yorick>yep
07:20<dihedral>keep it up :-)
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07:28<andythenorth>fonsinchen: seems like a nice idea
07:29<fonsinchen>Well, it's not particularly nice but it's the simplest way to prevent the order spam in some obscure setups.
07:30<fonsinchen>(hiding the auto orders from the GUI wouldn't work as you couldn't delete them then)
07:30<flitz>thanks, frosch
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07:37<yorick>dihedral: you designed the admin protocol?
07:39<dihedral>with some help yes
07:39<dihedral>what have you found / what do you need?
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07:41<yorick>no way to poll the bankruptcy/shareholders of a company, mostly
07:42<fonsinchen>Wasn't there some way to determine if we're in GUI context?
07:43<dihedral>you need to poll for bankruptcy?
07:44<dihedral>actually you can poll for that data
07:45<dihedral>ADMIN_UPDATE_COMPANY_INFO
07:45<dihedral>_ECONOMY and _STATS
07:45<dihedral>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/network/network_admin.cpp#L43
07:45<yorick>dihedral: it's only in the company update
07:46<dihedral>and that is a problem because...?
07:46<yorick>it doesn't send company updates when you poll ADMIN_UPDATE_COMPANY_INFO
07:47<dihedral>it's desigend to give you what you ask for
07:47<dihedral>no need to send more information than required
07:47<dihedral>the company info really is just the basic info
07:49<dihedral>_INFO also does not give you a finanancial overview
07:50<dihedral>if someone wants the additional details, they need to poll for them
07:51<dihedral>but if that is the most important thing that you can think of - i'll take that as a compliment :-P
07:51<yorick>dihedral: there is no way to poll for a ADMIN_UPDATE_COMPANY_INFO
07:51<flitz>I just realized that to play cargodist, you don't even need to give orders to your vehicles
07:52<flitz>just let them run wild in a city
07:52<flitz>does anybody play that way ?
07:52<dihedral>yorick, are you trying to poll for that data and are getting an error, or are you just saying that - do you have any more details?? c'mon - you know how to report issues
07:53<dihedral>according to line 47 of network_admin.cpp it should be possible
07:56<dihedral>i think i see what you are getting at
07:57<yorick>polling for COMPANY_INFO will not send the COMPANY_UPDATE, just the COMPANY_INFO
07:58<yorick>it will only send SERVER_COMPANY_UPDATE packets automatically
08:01<dihedral>Rubidium, (or someone else) http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/admin_network_send_more_company_info.diff
08:01<dihedral>forget that
08:03<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/admin_network_send_more_company_info.diff - there, much better ^^
08:03<yorick>:)
08:05<yorick>and this is still version 1?
08:05<dihedral>it does not break the protocol
08:06<dihedral>but that is a good point - iirc rubidium said the bots should themselves consider being compatible to new versions
08:06<yorick>yay for packet length checks
08:06<dihedral>i think i need to create a test for that stuff
08:07<dihedral>yorick, the packet surely cannot be full up
08:08<yorick>servers being compatible with older clients might be nice
08:08<dihedral>clients as in openttd clients?
08:08<dihedral>that would not make a bunch of sense in this game
08:08<yorick>no, admin clients
08:09<dihedral>that works
08:09<dihedral>the protocol is not to be changed, and if something does it's the client that needs to know if its compatible or not
08:10<dihedral>i.e. a simple logging bot will have no issue if something in the company info changes
08:17<dihedral>flitz, how up to date is cargodist anyway?
08:19<fonsinchen>dihedral: It's outdated by about one week and I'm just updating it.
08:19<dihedral>oh really?
08:19<flitz>dihedral: because of maybe missing trunk-features you mean ?
08:19<dihedral>now i totally did not expect that fonsinchen :-)
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08:20<fonsinchen>The irony is lost on me ... as always.
08:22*andythenorth can't decide
08:22<andythenorth>flags or no flags at an industry
08:24<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/dairy.png
08:24<andythenorth>??
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08:26<Eddi|zuHause><flitz> for people who know gui: what would I use instead of a 1-line-matrix ? a panel ? <-- have you checked the refit gui?
08:26<dihedral>fonsinchen, take it as a compliment ;-)
08:27<flitz>Eddi: you mean from autoreplacement ?
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>flitz: no, i mean refitting a train to other cargo
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>flitz: it has a field where you can select parts of the train
08:28<flitz>yes, I just realized
08:28<flitz>good hint, I didn't look at that
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08:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i think i have a bug:
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>assume using Nutracks, and build a diagonal track with high cost
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>now build a diagonal track with low cost on the same tile
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>now remove that last rail bit again
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>for the building, you pay the price of the low cost track, but for removing you get the high cost
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. you get more for removing than for building
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09:12<yorick>joining a server to which you do not have all the newgrfs requires 8 clicks currently
09:13<yorick>that seems like a big obstacle
09:15<dihedral>which might be why so many servers use new grfs? :-P
09:16<yorick>dihedral: I had to explain, step-by-step, 3 people this week over the phone how to join a server :P
09:16<dihedral>i would not want those people to join my server in that case
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09:17*dihedral takes voice from glx :-P
09:17<yorick>dihedral: imagine starting openttd for the first time, you click multiplayer, you click a server, and then the join button is grayed out!
09:18<yorick>and it says "newgrf mismatch" somewhere
09:18<dihedral>yes? i've been there
09:19<andythenorth>yorick: baffled me too
09:19<andythenorth>suggest a better string / UI?
09:19<yorick>then you have to click "newgrf settings", then "find missing content online", then "select all", then "download", then "ok", then "close", then you need to get rid of the newgrf window, then you can click join game
09:20<yorick>andythenorth: NEWGRF MISMATCH in red, maybe, and instructions on how to fix that
09:21<andythenorth>at least in red
09:21<andythenorth>it's currently got very little to indicate an error state
09:21<andythenorth>and the error is not near the control which fixes it
09:21<andythenorth>bad gestalt
09:22<andythenorth>also join game should be a larger button, as it's the main action there
09:22*andythenorth should learn gui code
09:22<andythenorth>but has enough projects already
09:23<yorick>like "NEWGRF MISMATCH, click NewGRF Settings to see which newgrfs are missing"
09:23<andythenorth>something like that yes
09:23<andythenorth>"NewGRF Mismatch" would be better than all caps
09:23<andythenorth>all caps is broken
09:23<yorick>or even "Missing NewGRF(s)"
09:24<andythenorth>better again
09:24<andythenorth>how is 'newgrf settings' dialog helpful in that context?
09:24<andythenorth>there's piss all I can do there
09:24<andythenorth>I guess it gives me a list of missing grfs?
09:25<yorick>it gives a list of every newgrf, with the missing ones listed with a red dot in front
09:25<yorick>from there, you can click find missing content online
09:25<yorick>(which could have been on the network window too)
09:26<yorick>and then you have to click select all
09:26<andythenorth>And in what way is it 'settings'?
09:26<andythenorth>what settings can I set there?
09:26<andythenorth>it's basically a lie yes / no?
09:26<yorick>it's the same window as the newgrf settings window, but with all the controls grayed out
09:27<yorick>(and/or missing)
09:28<yorick>and after you downloaded it, you have to close the three windows
09:29<andythenorth>yorick: the GUI is probably stuck where it is until some people with both time & inclination fix it ;)
09:30<andythenorth>I have the inclination, but I'd have to put down other projects
09:30<andythenorth>I think planetmaker had the same issue
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09:54<andythenorth_>better? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=942002#p942002
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09:57<frosch123>the flags are cc?
09:57<frosch123>definitely better
09:58<Ammler>nice
09:59<flitz>more shadowy = more real look
10:00<andythenorth_>flags are cc
10:00<andythenorth_>thanks - encouragement is helpful :)
10:00<andythenorth_>I could animate the flags, but...not now
10:01<andythenorth_>would probably look better with some nice fences
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10:05<frosch123>someone has an additional testgame for me, where real orders really mess up?
10:05<frosch123>V453000: someone of you perhaps?
10:07*andythenorth_ goes out for a bit
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10:18<flitz>a general gameplay musing: when connecting a lot of cities to a pax network, what would be a good way to reduce the tedium of setting up a feeder system for every little town connected ?
10:19<frosch123>tedium? maybe reduce the number of towns in total, or do not play openttd
10:20<flitz>I didn't want to say that the whole game becomes no fun ;)
10:21<frosch123>build tram or bus lines for feeders
10:21<flitz>just that this particular part of it becomes somewhat overwhelming as a savegame progresses
10:21<flitz>thats what I usually do
10:21<V453000>frosch123: what exactly do you need?
10:21<flitz>setting up shared orders for one vehicle, a group and cloning
10:21<@Terkhen>you don't need to connect all towns
10:22<frosch123>V453000: a game where a lot of automatic orders are spawned and removed again all the time
10:22<frosch123>i.e. a more "real-life"-example than my arbitrary testcase :)
10:23<flitz>terkhen: I don't have a number, but there is always a point where it takes too much effort to overview the existing network in terms of capacity and add some new stuff
10:23<V453000>oh, okay :) a minute or two
10:24<@Terkhen>that's usually when I start a new game :)
10:25<V453000>http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/publicserver_archive/PublicServerGame_199_Final.sav
10:25<V453000>frosch123: here
10:25<frosch123>thanks :)
10:25<V453000>sure :)
10:27<V453000>there is the mars newgrf loaded ...
10:27<frosch123>hmm 1750 trains sharing orders without a single real order
10:27<V453000>is that unfit? :)
10:28<V453000>http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/publicserver_archive/PublicServerGame_200_Final.sav
10:28<frosch123>i wonder whether that can actually happen with current trunk
10:28<V453000>there are some with real orders but you will need to edit the order lists there
10:28<V453000>trains have all 255 orders, just 2 orders, rest is filled with dummy orders to prevent autoorders from creating
10:28<V453000>you can find such trains on islands 16 and 5
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10:33<frosch123>sometimes coops building style makes me think of the old ai :p
10:35<V453000>:p
10:35<frosch123>90 degree turns where trains keep on reversing, dead ends and such :p
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10:38<V453000>:D
10:38<supermop_>hello
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10:43<@Terkhen>hi supermop
10:44<supermop>hi Terkhen
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10:49<flitz>< is out, have a nice weekend all
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12:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22326 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Destinations of conditional orders were update incorrectly when deleting orders in front of the conditional orders, if the target order wwas the order just before of the conditional order.
12:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22327 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Add: Vehicle::GetGroundVehicleFlags() for accessing GroundVehicle<>::gv_flags through a Vehicle struct.
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12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22328 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.hpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Add: a flag to GroundVehicles to disable insertion and removal of automatic orders until the next real order is reached.
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12:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22329 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Change: When the current orders are interrupted for non-ordered service, disable modifications to automatic orders until the next real order is completed. (train part already slipped by in r22328)
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13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22330 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp:
13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: When a conditional order triggers and causes skipping to a particular
13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: order, disable modifications to automatic orders. till reaching the next real
13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: order, as we do not know whether to change the targets of conditional orders
13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: when inserting automatic orders. (So, when the vehicle skips to an order and
13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: later inserts an automatic order, the conditional order will still point to the
13:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: same order, so the automatic order will be inserted again the next time.)
13:07<fonsinchen>frosch123: Any more changes to orders or is that it for now?
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22331 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp):
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: When inserting an (automatic) order A in front of an order B, disable
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: modifications of automatic orders for all vehicles currently heading for B as we
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: do not know whether they will reach A or B first. (except for the vehicle
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: causing the insertion of the automatic order itself)
13:08<frosch123>fonsinchen: likely 2 more
13:09<fonsinchen>OK, I'll wait with updating. Seems like you have a better fix for FS#4540 ... :)
13:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22332 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: When inserting automatic orders, do not create consecutive duplicate orders.
13:19<fonsinchen>I don't think this is a good idea
13:19<fonsinchen>sometimes a vehicle stops twice at thte same place.
13:19<fonsinchen>on purpose.
13:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22333 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Change: Prefer deleting automatic orders instead of inserting new ones.
13:20<frosch123>vehicles will not load anyway
13:20<frosch123>will they even stop?
13:20<fonsinchen>they will stop and they will load, just not unload
13:20<frosch123>anyway, done for today.
13:21<fonsinchen>I had a lot of those things in the cargodist thread where ppl would send some vehicle to a depot and back to the same station.
13:22<frosch123>well, but will it break anything if that order is not inserted?
13:22<fonsinchen>not really, but of course someone will complain.
13:22<fonsinchen>cargodist handles it any way, I think
13:23*fonsinchen goes and checks
13:23<frosch123>if the depot is also in the order list, it will still insert the order after r22332
13:23<frosch123>if there is no depot order inbetween, i do not see a point to complain about
13:23<fonsinchen>but of course you can arrange the depot to be not in the order list ...
13:23<frosch123>two identical orders after each other make no sense
13:25<frosch123>wrt. cargodist: i guess the only thing which needs checking/worrying is that cur_auto_order_index does not always point to the automatic order that was just reached, but may also point at the next one
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13:27<fonsinchen>it seems to work
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13:29<fonsinchen>and you're right. It doesn't even stop on the second visit. It will only stop if there's an explicit order and then the auto order won't take effect.
13:30<frosch123>let's see what the nightly users will come up with
13:30<frosch123>and whether they manage to trigger one of the new IsGroundVehicle assertions :p
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13:37<Eddi|zuHause>crazy idea: a newgrf-variable that gives the distance of the two order entries furthest apart, to base running cost on (some engines are better for short distance, others are better for long distances)
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13:40<frosch123>better add a variable "days since last load/unload" and make it affect the running cost quadratically.
13:40<frosch123>that will work better with conditional orders, go-via-orders and other stuff
13:41<frosch123>also, maybe there is already such a variable
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>but "days" != "distance"
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>and i meant the "total length" of the order list, not the distance between two consecutive stops
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>although, distance between next order and last stop may be useful, too. this data should be available already
13:44<frosch123>sounds quite fragile and exploitable
13:44<frosch123>maybe define "service in depot" as "refuel"
13:44<frosch123>"days since last service" is already available
13:45<frosch123>hmm, though only between 1920 and 2100 or so
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13:46<LordAro>afternoon all
13:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22334 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt:
13:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 72 changes by klemenkosir
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14:00*LordAro ponders on how to read a readme.txt... ifstream?
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14:01<yorick>fopen(), read() or ifstream
14:04<LordAro>and what variable should be used to store the file? 'char file[10000]' or 'string file'?
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14:07<andythenorth>efening
14:09<Lakie>Hi Andy, nice improvements on your FIRS graphics btw
14:10<andythenorth>fanks
14:10<Lakie>Is it me or are they all a shade or two darker after being altered?
14:10<andythenorth>the brick ones are darker
14:10<andythenorth>most TTD brick buildings are quite dark (not all)
14:10<Lakie>I see, ok
14:10<andythenorth>and I add more shading
14:10<andythenorth>with the lighting in the correct direction, previously it was...wrong
14:11<Lakie>And removed some over-noise?
14:11<andythenorth>yes
14:11<andythenorth>although added some noise in other places too
14:11<andythenorth>hmm
14:12*andythenorth thinks FIRS release cycle might slow down a lot soon
14:12<andythenorth>I'm hitting a wall on nfo features that don't exist
14:12<Lakie>hehe
14:14<supermop>Eddi, I always thought a neater way to do that would be to have vehicles give a certain coefficient to the payment rate decay curve
14:16<supermop>so passenger payment for x tiles over 1 day in a metro is no different than x tiles over one day in a sleeper, but the curve falls off more sharply in the metro than the IC
14:17<supermop>so out at 100 days, the passengers in the metro are pissed, and pay basically nothing, while those in a long distance sleeper are happy and pay a nice fair
14:17<supermop>fare
14:20<supermop>could say that you can refit a hopper to passengers and the coefficient is like 1/1000,
14:20<supermop>and a cruise ship would be like 2000/1
14:21<supermop>as i think i would prefere a cruise ship to sitting in a hopper for a long journey by at least a factor of 2 million
14:22<supermop>and then to be really complex,
14:22<andythenorth>supermop: it's the principle of checking some vehicle prop when calculating payment?
14:22<andythenorth>it was discussed before wrt to restaurant cars, etc
14:23<supermop>for a metro car, code it with an invisible articulated part, so the part with seats is 1/2, but the part where you stand is 1/10
14:23<supermop>hmm
14:23<supermop>i was thinking it would be useful for refrigerated stuff
14:24<andythenorth>indeed
14:24<supermop>as an uncooled truck would be negligibly worse over short trips, but all the food would spoil on a long trip
14:25<supermop>i was thinking a while back that a similar thing would be cool for waiting at stations
14:26<supermop>build some shelter and people dont mind waiting as much
14:27<supermop>you would then have to calculate the time cargo waits at a station as a 'trip' as well
14:27<supermop>so that it has a variable effect to the final payment based on tiles present
14:28<supermop>various platforms might also have their own loading speeds as well
14:29<supermop>so a tipple loads quickly, but if you need a bunch of guys with shovels to load the coal into a retrofitted DMU, that is going to take very long
14:30<supermop>I am hungry
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14:38<andythenorth>ho
14:38<andythenorth>most default industries weren't snow aware
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14:42<supermop>are they lunch-aware?
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14:50*LordAro gives up with OTTD deving and goes and plays AssaultCube
14:53*andythenorth wonders if some buildings will look stupid if lawn isn't snow covered
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:54<andythenorth>default game does it....
14:54<andythenorth>should stations also be snow-covered?
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14:55<andythenorth>Yexo: ^ ?
14:55<andythenorth>might be nice, might be weird...
14:56<andythenorth>I'm happy to draw sprites and experiment
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15:17<andythenorth>hey DanMacK
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15:22*andythenorth is totally bored by snow sprites
15:23<TWerkhoven[L]>even snowmen?
15:23<DanMacK>Ney
15:23<DanMacK>*Hey
15:25<andythenorth>DanMacK: save me from FIRS snow :P
15:25<andythenorth>it's so dull
15:26<DanMacK>I thought it was soothing :P
15:27<supermop>i am now nolonger lunch aware
15:27<andythenorth>DanMacK: not for this building: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=point_7_release#dairy
15:28<andythenorth>do I paint snow on the lawn? on the stones around the lawn? on the path up to the steps? meh
15:28<andythenorth>the default sprites give limited inspiration here
15:28<andythenorth>and it could just end up as a white building on a white tile with a white roof :P
15:28*andythenorth does grumble
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15:45<albaandy>guys, i have a 2 track one way train track with cross over sections every so often, i have the signals setup before the cross over and then after it, what signal do I use on the first one that allows the train to pass ONLY if the there is a open track ahead? I used the second semaphone but it wasnt that
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15:56*andythenorth wonders what train sets are good
15:56<andythenorth>I've played NARS and UKRS to death
15:56<andythenorth>Canset isn't FIRS compatible
15:56<DanMacK>NARS2, UKRS...
15:56<andythenorth>US Set isn't FIRS friendly
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15:59<andythenorth_>does DB set work with FIRS?
15:59<andythenorth_>Eddi|zuHause: any idea? ^
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth_: barely
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth_: the dbxl_firs.grf has a few missing refit abilities. and the graphics are totally wrong
16:00<andythenorth_>h
16:00<andythenorth_>o
16:00<andythenorth_>maybe I go to sleep instead :P
16:00*andythenorth_ is feeling sulky
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16:36<LordAro>night all
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16:45<@Yexo><andythenorth> [20:54:29] should stations also be snow-covered? <- imo yes
16:46<@Yexo>oh, andy was already gone :p
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17:44<asddssdsd>you can test www.snowlinux.de
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18:21<@Terkhen>good night
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18:38<Eddi|zuHause>ok... "land info" (industry-tile var 60, house var 62) is broken for more height levels...
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>needs more bits
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>... as well as "snow line height" (var 20)
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20:00<Wolf01>'night
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21:34<Pikka>hardly
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 17 00:00:54 2011