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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-17

---Logopened Sun Apr 17 00:00:54 2011
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02:44<Pikka>how ridiculous
02:44<Lachie>VERY RIDACULAS
02:45<@peter1138>No, you.
02:47<Lachie>:(
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02:57<Pikka>that's told him
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03:48<@Terkhen>good morning
03:48<Mazur>Good
03:48<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
03:51<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
03:52*Mazur feels totally overlooked and goes into hiding in #Openttdcoop
03:53<@planetmaker>:-D hello Mazur
03:53<Mazur>:-)
03:55<V453000>come, those bastards arent worthy your attention ;) morning pm nad Terkhen
03:55<@planetmaker>salut V
03:55<Mazur>k, V.
03:55<V453000>:P
03:56<@planetmaker>some people just can't show affection really well, eh? ;-)
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04:40<yorick>moin all
04:44-!-Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit []
04:46<@Terkhen>hi yorick
04:52-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
04:52<Wolf01>'morning
04:56<Pikka>gutennacht
04:56<Pikka>geblungen mitterenglacht cor blimey
04:57<@planetmaker>gute Nacht, Pikka
04:57<Pikka>good evening planetmaker
04:57<Pikka>and gentlemen
04:58<@planetmaker>and of course good morning yorick and Wolf
04:59<@planetmaker>01 :S
04:59<@planetmaker>nasty tab completion ;-)
05:01<@planetmaker>hm... where do I look: by which means do I implement custom foundations for an object?
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05:03<@planetmaker>hm... or not at all?
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05:19<Pikka>planetmaker, needs http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Decide_drawing_default_foundations_30_14E_150_ for objects
05:19<@planetmaker>hm
05:19<@planetmaker>so not. Sad thing :-)
05:22<@planetmaker>sounds also quite lengthy, Pikka, if one wants to do that for all possible slopes / foundations
05:23<Pikka>no more lengthy than doing it any other way, I shouldn't think
05:23<@planetmaker>if I read it correctly, it should need a separate layout for each slope, right?
05:24<Pikka>a seperate sprite, yes, but you'd need that anyway wouldn't you?
05:24<@planetmaker>as you'd need a different foundation for each. And you'd need to do the same thing again, if you want it for a 2nd house / *tile
05:25<@planetmaker>lengthy as in: the true object stays the same, only the foundations which the programme usually should know how to draw / select need to be newgrf-decided.
05:25<Pikka>yes
05:25<Pikka>but it's just a straightforward var2 testing var 41
05:26<Pikka>and once you've done it for one tile/object, just copy and paste for the rest :)
05:26<@planetmaker>so another case for http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Extended_Sprite_Layout
05:26<@planetmaker>sure it is. but always 16(?) cases
05:26<Pikka>well, that's what you get for wanting custom sprites :P
05:27<@planetmaker>:-P
05:27<Pikka>you could always disable the building from appearing on slopes you couldn't be bothered drawing
05:27<@planetmaker>fair enough, I guess
05:27<@planetmaker>but it's a needless and tiresome restriction.
05:27<@planetmaker>because you either want no slope or all slopes, if you want foundations
05:28<Pikka>I suppose so
05:28<Pikka>I've done some houses before which actually built on the slope rather than using a foundation to be level :) so they obviously were restricted to certain slopes, or used very different graphics for different slopes.
05:29<@planetmaker>of course :-) For those kinds of advanced adjustment it makes sense, very much so
05:29<Pikka>if you just want /foundations/, then why use custom ones? wouldn't they look out of place, generally?
05:29<@planetmaker>or for these things like george's animals on the meadows
05:30<@planetmaker>they might look out-of place. Or those are the sub-terrain windows which need to show there ;-)
05:32<Pikka>o
05:32<Pikka>well
05:33<Pikka>it's all academic anyway until someone enables the callback for objects :P
05:33<@planetmaker>;-) quite so
05:33<Pikka>if only we knew some openttd devs
05:33<@planetmaker>yeah, they're really really scarce
05:34<Pikka>and I guess they're all too busy working on newgrfairports :D
05:34<@planetmaker>:-P
05:34<@planetmaker>but I heart, they also accept patches :P
05:35<Pikka>it's a theory
05:36<@planetmaker>a daring one. I know ;-)
05:37-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe1b8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
05:41<@planetmaker>quak (speaking of which ;-) )
05:41<@planetmaker>Pikka: you can already define rotated airports - and give them a different look, if you liked. Just the layout would need to stay
05:42<@planetmaker>layout as in meaning of tiles
05:42<Pikka>yes, I know :)
05:42<xQR>any idea what the admin interface is trying to tell me when it sends me a 0x00 and a 0x02? that's just 2 bytes and the header for every packet would already need 3
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05:42<frosch123>moin
05:42<xQR>that happens right after i received an ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_REMOVE
05:42<Pikka>bonjour herr frosch123
05:43<@Terkhen>hi frosch123
05:43<@planetmaker>good that you know :-) I was always hoping somewhat that you'd make use of that ;-)
05:44<frosch123>howdy señor pikka
05:44<frosch123>hello terkhen :)
05:44<Pikka>I'm waiting til I can make proper airports tbh, just "reskinning" the default layouts isn't much fun
05:45<@planetmaker>I thought so :-)
05:46-!-LordAro [~kvirc@host86-137-189-236.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
05:46<LordAro>moin
05:48<@Terkhen>hi LordAro
05:48<LordAro>hi Terkhen
05:49<Pikka>gloin
05:53*Hendikins grumbles about train drivers who believe in "sit down, shut up, hang on"
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05:54<Hendikins>Taking a break from ottd to do my paid job of playing with real trains.
06:03<Pikka>:D sounds like my kind of driving
06:04<Hendikins>It isn't mine when I'm in the 5th position cab trying to do my job!
06:05<Pikka>and what is your job?
06:05-!-pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3051.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:05<Hendikins>Suburban train guard.
06:05<Pikka>fun :)
06:05<Hendikins>The driver drives, I do all the other stuff (but not revenue or security)
06:08<Hendikins>You've still goy guards in Brisbane too, although I'm in Sydney
06:10<Hendikins>er, got
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06:15<Pikka>I'm sure we do
06:16<LordAro>lol: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=54122
06:17<@planetmaker>Pikka: warning for whom? IMHO only Leanden deserves one.
06:18<Pikka>well, I considered warning leanden too :P
06:18<Pikka>but for the OP
06:18<@planetmaker>well. The OP didn't flame a _person_
06:18<Pikka>true, he's just a git
06:19<Pikka>oddly he's been around for ages but only posts every two years
06:20<Pikka>Hendikins: I drive and do all the other stuff including revenue and security, and I don't even have any tracks telling me where to go!
06:21<Hendikins>The tracks don't tell me where to go, the signals do.
06:21<Pikka>the tracks do tell you where to go, the signals just tell you when :P
06:21<Pikka>I would have thought?
06:22<Hendikins>Not with a route based signalling system.
06:22<Hendikins>With a route based system the signals are telling me how far ahead the line is clear, and what route[s] will be taken.
06:23<Pikka>yes
06:23<Hendikins>So I'm not looking at the tracks or points, I'm looking at the signals for that information.
06:23<Hendikins>Whereas with a speed based system, that information is provided by methods other than the signalling system.
06:24*Hendikins is qualified in systems of safeworking used in NSW.
06:26<Pikka>I can tell! :D
06:26<Pikka>I've not been to NSW often, but it's seemed to me that there's a mishmash of signal types used down there
06:27<Hendikins>Actually... there isn't.
06:27<Pikka>whereas up here it's all BR-style 3/4 aspect
06:27<Hendikins>Our signals fall in to three broad categories - single light colour light, double light colour light, shunting signals.
06:28<Hendikins>Double light colour light just allows more aspects to be displayed in higher traffic density areas (primarily the Sydney Metropolitan Area). It is derived from single light colour light.
06:29<Hendikins>How would you determine if a signal was an automatic up there?
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06:31*Hendikins idly wonders if zig zags would be usable in ottd, will have to try some time
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06:38<LordAro>quick q: with the base road vehicles, is it 'Uhl' or 'UHL' ?
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06:39<Hendikins>Pikka: I wonder how OTTD would run with the equivalent of NSW safeworking in high density areas. Nominally 2 signals between trains, and a low speed indication if it is reduced to 1.
06:42<@planetmaker>My guess is: it would not run much different
06:42<Hendikins>With normal signal spacing it could reduce the amount of stop/start somewhat (which is the reason for it being implemented)
06:43<Hendikins>I can't be stuffed learning how to write it and I don't expect anyone else to. More a theory question
06:43<@planetmaker>but ^^ might be the result, slightly less stopping and restarting
06:46<Hendikins>The NSW low speed indication is 25km/h where fitted.
06:51<Pikka>a "yellow" aspect has long been on many peoples' wishlist
06:51<@planetmaker>there's a meanwhile outdated patch by michi which implements advance reservation
06:51<@planetmaker>and another signal type which allows conditional reservation beyond the next signal
06:52<@planetmaker>but... it's like 2 years old now and probably won't apply to trunk anymore
06:52<@planetmaker>http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/ <-- advance_*.*
06:53<Hendikins>Pikka: This isn't a yellow per se. This is more restrictive than a yellow (at least here, yellow aspects don't involve speed restriction)
06:53<Pikka>well, no
06:53<Pikka>but in the OTTD world they would
06:53<Hendikins>At the same time though, I do understand that OTTD is not a signalling system simulation.
06:55<@planetmaker>there are some changes which probably could be implemented, but still not easy (nothing with signals and path finders is): changing penalties for moving trains on possible paths and speed restrictions and corresponding penalties when the next signal block is not free.
06:55<@planetmaker>which w/could mean some kind of speed limiting signals in a way
06:56<@planetmaker>But as small as it sounds here, I have the feeling it's a big project code-wise.
06:56<@planetmaker>And prone to many many subtle errors and nasty border-cases
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06:58<Hendikins>It is entirely likely that I overthink this because of having some knowledge of safeworking.
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07:11*LordAro explores michi-cc's server :)
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>most important imho would be a separate pathfinder penalty for a broken down train
07:18<Hendikins>So that if I'm using multiple tracks with regular crossovers, it will actually get routed around?
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07:27*planetmaker invented a new type of forest. It grows the logged wood piles right away. No nasty intermediat step of needing trees...
07:28<andythenorth>how clever
07:28*andythenorth needs a new train set
07:29<andythenorth>recommendations?
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>make one :p
07:29<andythenorth>eh?
07:29<andythenorth>perhaps not
07:29<andythenorth>I have been bugging Pikka to make SARS
07:30<@planetmaker>sounds unhealthy
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07:41<@planetmaker>what do you need in a train set, andythenorth ?
07:41<andythenorth>FIRS compatibility
07:41<andythenorth>completeness
07:42<andythenorth>graphics that don't suck
07:48*Hendikins is on a train set at the moment, does that count?
07:50<andythenorth>probably
07:57<Pikka>mm sars
07:57*Pikka should finish UKRS2
07:57<Pikka>but I'm on an av8 kick at the moment
07:58<Pikka>decided I'm going to add about 15 new planes for the 5th anniversary edition D:
07:59<Pikka>andythenorth, what's SARS again? :D
07:59<Pikka>seth efrican renewal set
07:59<Pikka>?
07:59<Pikka>south american, oh
08:01*Pikka tf2
08:07<andythenorth>South American ;)
08:08<andythenorth>Pikka: UKRS 2 is definitely Good Enough (tm)
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08:19<@Terkhen>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWd3vgLaA_M
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08:27<@planetmaker>hm... can I set a specific animation frame?
08:29<@Yexo>in the animation callback? yes
08:37<@planetmaker>ah, thanks. I missed that callback :-)
08:37<@planetmaker>That'll stop the forest to do the breakdance
08:38<@Yexo>is just setting the animation speed lower not good enough?
08:38<@Yexo>running the animation callback too often can have a measurable impact on speed
08:42<@planetmaker>I want the animation to run once and then stop
08:42<@planetmaker>setting to non_looping then only advances once. Looping loops always
08:44<@Yexo>IIRC you can accomplish that by not setting the "loop" bit in animation info
08:44<Ammler>but then, how do I not miss the animation?
08:44<@Yexo>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0IndustryTiles#Animation_information_0F_
08:44<@Yexo>"The high byte must be 0 for non-looping animations and 01 for looping animations."
08:45<@planetmaker>yes. well, my goal is: some trigger --> run through all animation frames once, then stop and reset to 0
08:46<@planetmaker>alternatively it'd do do: some trigger -> advance one frame and reset, if animation_frame = max_animation_frame
08:47<@planetmaker>with looping I get: trigger -> cycle through animation continuously. (That's the definition of looping, I guess ;-) )
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08:47<@Yexo>use cb 25 as trigger to start animation, and enable cb 26 to stop the animation once it's complete by returning FF
08:48<@planetmaker>ho... :-)
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08:55<Eddi|zuHause>http://wiki.openttd.org/images/0/06/Cloverleaf_inward_corners.png <-- wtf is this abomination?
08:56<@Alberth>it looks like a crossing :)
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but it contradicts all known concepts of crossing design, it's neither functional nor realistic
09:00*Alberth ponders how it does not work
09:00<@planetmaker>it's consequently merge before split.
09:01<@Alberth>I agree you should probably not use it for heavy traffic, but otherwise?
09:01<@Alberth>So add a comment that <insert link here> is equivalent and much better
09:04<@Alberth>ie documenting bad solutions seems useful too, to me
09:17<@peter1138>low traffic generally suffices with a nice flat pbs crossing :)
09:17<@peter1138>of course, irl, junctions are generally at stations anyway
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>that's exactly my thought.
09:19<Hendikins>That junction looks like a problem waiting to happen.
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09:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r22335 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Cleanup (r22308): remove superfluous tabs
09:39<@peter1138>oh, that's irritating. gallery3 magically stopped working :S
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10:11<andythenorth>funny old game
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10:17*peter1138 tries playing with FIRS
10:17*andythenorth waves in direction of issue tracker ;)
10:18<andythenorth>better? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=942170#p942170
10:18<@Terkhen>nice :)
10:19<andythenorth>I did some waves and stuff for the water as well
10:19<andythenorth>maybe I should add some crates to the dock
10:22<@Terkhen>hmmm... that's a good idea
10:23<andythenorth>maybe later then :)
10:23<andythenorth>peter1138: if you use FIRS, you might also want CHIPS
10:23<andythenorth>but it's fine, you can add it to a running game ;)
10:24<andythenorth>:P
10:24*Hendikins grumble, his train runs Windows...
10:24<andythenorth>Yexo: frosch thought the var 68 extension for towns would be fine
10:24<andythenorth>does it need discussing with TTDP?
10:24<@Yexo>probably yes
10:25<@Yexo>just wait until lakie turns up
10:27<@peter1138>i added chips, yes
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10:28<@peter1138>hmm
10:28<andythenorth>FIRS should have been called PEAS or BEANS
10:28<@peter1138>is there a flow chart?
10:28<@peter1138>i don't know what can go where :p
10:28<andythenorth>there's one in the game...
10:28<@peter1138>oh
10:28<andythenorth>it's quite handy
10:29<@peter1138>there is?
10:29<andythenorth>'Display Chain' on industry window
10:29<andythenorth>also links to minimap
10:29<@peter1138>oh i see
10:29<andythenorth>or, if you have the interwebs, there's my website...http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/economies
10:29<andythenorth>but no chart :(
10:29<@peter1138>hidden away :(
10:30<andythenorth>if you're using 0.6.x my website is slightly lies :(
10:30<@peter1138>is there'a cargo-centric view?
10:30-!-ar3kaw [~ident@ebv121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
10:30<@peter1138>hm
10:30<andythenorth>no but perhaps there should be...
10:30<@peter1138>Industry chain for Wood cargo
10:30<@peter1138>yes
10:30<@peter1138>but it's not easy to get to
10:30<andythenorth>oh yes there is, I forgot
10:30<@Terkhen>if you click on a cargo it displays the chain for that cargo
10:31<@peter1138>should be able to reach that from other things that display cargos
10:31<andythenorth>good point
10:31<@Terkhen>hmm... for example?
10:31<@Terkhen>the cargo payment graph?
10:32-!-Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has left #openttd []
10:32<@peter1138>our lack of right-click context menus is limiting :S
10:32<@peter1138>maybe the industry chain view should also have a list of industry types/cargo types
10:33<@peter1138>so once it's open you can easily explore
10:33<@peter1138>and the yellow outlines have gaps :S
10:35<SpComb>rewrite to use standard Win32 GUI components!
10:35<@peter1138>kill SpComb!
10:35<@peter1138>right, no coal-fired power station
10:36*SpComb starts the openttd-qt fork
10:36<@Terkhen>heh, good luck with that
10:36<@Terkhen>:P
10:36<@peter1138>so does firs have a simple industry chain to start with early on?
10:36<@peter1138>other than passengers/mail ;p
10:36<@Terkhen>I like to start with steel mills
10:37-!-ar3k [~ident@ebv121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:41<andythenorth>peter1138: pax -> towns :P
10:41<andythenorth>iron ore -> steel mill
10:41<andythenorth>wood -> sawmill
10:41<andythenorth>other stuff -> other places :D
10:42<andythenorth>most people start with steel chain
10:42<andythenorth>I like starting with farm produce as it's fricking difficult
10:42<andythenorth>if you have FISH, then start with fish
10:42<andythenorth>it's cheap and easy and production is stable so you never need to adjust it for the entire rest of the game
10:43*andythenorth goes out to drink beer
10:43<andythenorth>or wine
10:43<Pikka>goodnight gentlemen
10:43<andythenorth>good afternoon
10:43<Pikka>*coughnewairports*
10:43-!-Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-83-60.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:43<@Terkhen>hi Pikka
10:44<andythenorth>newairports indeed
10:44*andythenorth bye
10:44<andythenorth>bbl
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11:00-!-mountaineer [~RadioAum2@119.36.138.131] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-ce_kencan [~ce_chines@c-98-252-43-247.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-Teddy_Jkt [~aryo_@41.234.206.139] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-bernd [~ce_byrn_c@182.23.8.226] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-LAGI_NAPSU_NIE [~kalle_kul@85.185.155.98] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-MarocBeau [~Clovis@c-98-251-194-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-nur_cahaya [~sHAKe_iN_@c-68-58-62-155.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-Midna [~LadyRain@c-68-43-222-12.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-ervina_16 [~nav@ip98-177-138-136.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-Co_Kerja_nyari_ce [~cowok_aja@c-76-121-241-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-ce_chines20 [~co_ok@ip70-189-71-50.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-Anth0ny- [~CoW_CaRi_@210.51.169.198] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-cwo_F4 [~COcariCEd@c-68-59-56-208.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:44)]
11:00-!-coXXXjkt [~Hardk@115.127.8.162] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-aRaLe [~z4yz4y@97-91-80-166.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-latino0712 [~Co_Permen@c-71-200-217-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-DimaS40 [~GAMBUS@71-15-80-124.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-cE_19_cri_cwo_mobil [~myla_23@pool-108-16-230-208.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-ce_manja [~cEW_nARzI@ool-457ff613.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-goodsamaritan [~ayu23445@87.110.113.45] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-co-cari_tante [~junky\a]@222.237.79.242] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Tamu040119842009 [~MONGTOR@ip70-178-91-86.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-DEDEX [~cwoPplngs@121.12.249.207] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Jim101 [~Iwan_need@c-68-51-51-105.hsd1.ar.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-ce_akper [~^co_butuh@c-98-243-42-137.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-KanwaL [~DavidB__@188.231.181.234] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-man_romantic [~WaRBrOThE@ool-ad0374fc.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-jezzi [~^Anita^23@ool-4576b121.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-Pryde [~adrien_3@222.138.178.244] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-co__CR__CE [~ce_berjil@75.99.176.250] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-c3_usiL [~Cock-On-C@118.69.192.62] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-sephya_muaniez [~Aanalia19@c-76-112-124-220.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-MINUL [~httsqv@85.202.1.82] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-co_office_bdg [~Siap_nika@c-98-252-129-251.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-CO-ASYIXX [~WaRBrOThE@pool-108-23-224-192.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-vhy [~Midna@175.123.72.96] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-mirchez [~halimaw@238.Red-80-32-160.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-male_30 [~DOOLCE@209.203.51.34] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-Sapola [~bAbY_lOOv@c-76-103-127-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-CaRi^BisYaR [~ZAVIER_CR@pool-108-16-238-233.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-cari_butuh_tante [~Co_Kerja_@c-174-59-204-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-co-papua-gede-panjang [~junky_`_]@c-67-175-168-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-La-DtRa-K [~halimaw@c-24-30-31-39.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-coXXXjkt [~Hardk@115.127.8.162] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-co__CR__CE [~ce_berjil@75.99.176.250] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-LAGI_NAPSU_NIE [~kalle_kul@85.185.155.98] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-latino0712 [~Co_Permen@c-71-200-217-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-aRaLe [~z4yz4y@97-91-80-166.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-sukroo [~cR_cE_TOG@c-68-50-10-61.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-_Sop_ [~Ennuyee@173-27-227-246.client.mchsi.com] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-c3_usiL [~Cock-On-C@118.69.192.62] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-bernd [~ce_byrn_c@182.23.8.226] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-goodsamaritan [~ayu23445@87.110.113.45] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-ce_manja [~cEW_nARzI@ool-457ff613.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-cE_19_cri_cwo_mobil [~myla_23@pool-108-16-230-208.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-Tamu040119842009 [~MONGTOR@ip70-178-91-86.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-DimaS40 [~GAMBUS@71-15-80-124.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-co-cari_tante [~junky\a]@222.237.79.242] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-DEDEX [~cwoPplngs@121.12.249.207] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-mirchez [~halimaw@238.Red-80-32-160.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:45)]
11:00-!-GarField- [~Ryuk24@c-76-17-16-177.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-matche [~BONDjames@c-67-187-141-228.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-cow_17 [~ian09@178.165.10.146] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Dj_Crazzz [~Tau-maru@rockhall.torservers.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-CoW_pLaT_H [~CeSlave@c-67-182-97-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-jen_21 [~co_dewasa@58.242.248.15] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-XeonQuiz [~Dakota_Mo@46.98.74.124] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Skull_ [~hadimtp@125.162.92.233] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-||DITO|| [~Simon-31@187.54.224.116] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-OM-35m-JKT-TAJIR [~Irma_Hot_@218.59.161.169] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-co_sprite is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:00-!-co_sprite is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:00-!-kalabog3 [~P]A]T]@190.107.117.30] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-CoW_pLaT_H [~CeSlave@c-67-182-97-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-jen_21 [~co_dewasa@58.242.248.15] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-cow_17 [~ian09@178.165.10.146] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-GarField- [~Ryuk24@c-76-17-16-177.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-Skull_ [~hadimtp@125.162.92.233] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-XeonQuiz [~Dakota_Mo@46.98.74.124] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-matche [~BONDjames@c-67-187-141-228.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-||DITO|| [~Simon-31@187.54.224.116] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:46)]
11:00-!-winerzt [~co-papua-@91.218.32.118] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-kalabog2 [~cowo_mega@c-71-60-214-250.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-manist [~Guest7561@97-95-228-235.dhcp.sffl.va.charter.com] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Valoux [~cwo_ngaja@pool-108-48-26-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-nurse_me [~Mat_ure@c-98-226-213-96.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-cE_bLooNd [~co_in_her@91.199.115.55] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-MarocBeau [~Tau-maru@222.73.173.115] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-OM-35m-JKT-TAJIR [~Irma_Hot_@218.59.161.169] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-andre^ [~MoonLiteG@79.172.20.25] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-cow_cr_eskord [~co-montir@122.226.143.230] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-[David]KS[Lee] [~DimaS40@188.168.34.126] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-nurse_me [~Mat_ure@c-98-226-213-96.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-manist [~Guest7561@97-95-228-235.dhcp.sffl.va.charter.com] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-[David]KS[Lee] [~DimaS40@188.168.34.126] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-Cow_Dah_lama_gak_gituan [~Guest1168@190.107.121.73] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Valoux [~cwo_ngaja@pool-108-48-26-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-kalabog2 [~cowo_mega@c-71-60-214-250.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-cE_bLooNd [~co_in_her@91.199.115.55] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-MarocBeau [~Tau-maru@222.73.173.115] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-andre^ [~MoonLiteG@79.172.20.25] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-winerzt [~co-papua-@91.218.32.118] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-Cow_Dah_lama_gak_gituan [~Guest1168@190.107.121.73] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-Ria^Cantik [~co-nice@190.199.98.153] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-cow_cr_eskord [~co-montir@122.226.143.230] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:47)]
11:00-!-diva21 [~ce-gokilz@219.93.35.226] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-LANANG09 [~BigEars@pool-74-96-236-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-co_hobi_nongkrong_dmol [~d_flay@96.245.17.184] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-StePH[G] [~zhuami@c-24-18-116-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Ria^Cantik [~co-nice@190.199.98.153] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:48)]
11:00-!-diva21 [~ce-gokilz@219.93.35.226] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:48)]
11:00-!-LANANG09 [~BigEars@pool-74-96-236-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:48)]
11:00-!-co_hobi_nongkrong_dmol [~d_flay@96.245.17.184] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:48)]
11:00-!-StePH[G] [~zhuami@c-24-18-116-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:48)]
11:00-!-co_cr_ce-asik [~CEZW@61.167.60.40] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-iccank [~cow_oL@109.123.119.163] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-MarcAndreQc [~jancok@116.72.57.109] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-ripcord is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:00-!-co_cr_ce-asik [~CEZW@61.167.60.40] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:49)]
11:00-!-MarcAndreQc [~jancok@116.72.57.109] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:49)]
11:00-!-victorized [~Deny_Aja@businessservicesuk.com] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-cow_ajh [~adItyA_mO@c-24-8-94-137.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-erar_li [~JustinJ@66-190-216-128.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Triple-- [~Ranger_ko@116.45.112.72] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-andhy_nac-smapaht [~ce_lagi_t@61.56.171.84] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-amie [~CO_HOTZ_B@202.103.95.194] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-sithaaa [~moyez_@202.153.228.178] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-Triple-- [~Ranger_ko@116.45.112.72] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:50)]
11:00-!-victorized [~Deny_Aja@businessservicesuk.com] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:50)]
11:00-!-amie [~CO_HOTZ_B@202.103.95.194] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:50)]
11:00-!-erar_li [~JustinJ@66-190-216-128.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:50)]
11:00-!-cow_ajh [~adItyA_mO@c-24-8-94-137.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:50)]
11:00-!-andhy_nac-smapaht [~ce_lagi_t@61.56.171.84] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:50)]
11:00-!-caseey`canttik [~Guest8945@savelleadsl.claranet.co.uk] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-shadhows [~Guest8820@66-169-122-118.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd
11:00-!-sithaaa [~moyez_@202.153.228.178] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2011-04-17 15:00:51)]
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11:00-!-mode/#openttd [+i] by peter1138
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11:00-!-lita_15 is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:00-!-co__CR__CE is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:01-!-c3_usiL is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:01-!-||DITO|| is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:01-!-babysen is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:01-!-ce_zMp_qLIqUERz is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:01<@peter1138>that's quite spammy
11:01-!-CO_EXMUD is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
11:02<Hendikins>Rather.
11:03<@Alberth>nobody was having a conversation anyway :)
11:03-!-mode/#openttd [+R-i] by DorpsGek
11:03<+glx>less restrictive :)
11:03<@peter1138>pfeh, those new-fangled customed modes
11:03<@peter1138>customed!
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11:05<yorick>ooh, bot attack
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11:38<Agravain>is there a .deb for ubuntu natty out?
11:39<@Terkhen>is natty released?
11:39<Agravain>the deb for 10.10 does not install, as the libicu-versions do not match
11:40<Agravain>Terkhen: not yet, the release is later this month
11:40<@Terkhen>try the linux generic binaries
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11:43<Agravain>Terkhen: thanks, that worked
11:43<@Terkhen>you are welcome
11:44<Agravain>also, I'm compiling 1.1.0 from source now, are there any known issues with compiling with gcc-4.5?
11:45<@Terkhen>only a few warnings when compiling without asserts IIRC
11:46<@planetmaker>generally gcc > 3.3(?) should work. With various versions issuing various (bogus or rarely not bogus) warnings
11:46<Agravain>seems to work, compiled ok, started ok, loaded my savegame ok :)
11:46<@planetmaker>hopefully you compiled from a svn checkout?
11:46<Agravain>hehe, no, I used the 1.1.0-source download
11:47<@planetmaker>you might re-consider to use an svn checkout... might be more fun for multiplayer :-)
11:47<@planetmaker>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.0
11:48<@Terkhen>wasn't the version set correctly for the tarballs too?
11:48<Ammler>there should be a .ottdrev in there
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>it won't be able to detect modifications
11:50<Agravain>alright, I'm getting the svn-version. Missing a 'make uninstall' target, is that supposed to work?
11:50<Ammler>there is none
11:51<Ammler>you should make a .deb file, if you like features like uninstall
11:51<Ammler>is there no openttd on launchpad?
11:52<Ammler>or how that 3rdparty repo thing is called
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't launchpad this bazaar-repo-thingie?
11:53<Agravain>there is only version 1.0.4 out for natty in the official repositories
11:53<Ammler>afaik ubuntu packages are made there, aren't?
11:53<Ammler>ppa
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea about anything ubuntu-related
11:55<Ammler>me neither, just heard some rumors :-)
11:56<@Terkhen>I find it simpler to play from the checkout folder than installing the game
11:57<Ammler>yes, that is why you should use distro packages for such case, imo
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>that's not really a reason to have no uninstall target, though...
11:58<Ammler>packages have that
11:58<Ammler>so for who will you make that target which is quite hard to implement?
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>"rm -rf $prefix/openttd"?
12:00<Ammler>well, then you should call it "remove" or delete, as you can't know, it is the pakcage you installed
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>who cares about whether it's the right files?
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>"uninstall" deletes all files that "install" would create
12:01<Ammler>uninstall should only remove things it installed before
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>that's impossible, because you can't track that
12:02<Ammler>yes, that might be the reason, that target doesn't exist?
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>unlikely
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>then no other project would have it either...
12:03<Ammler>most other projects which has it did implement it as wrong as you suggested
12:04<Ammler>(me guessing) :-)
12:05<Ammler>make install could create a path list which make uninstall uses to remove again
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12:44<@peter1138>what does "2,.9" mean?
12:44<@peter1138>er, where the train length indicator in the depot view used to be
12:45<@Alberth>interesting way to write a decimal fraction :)
12:46<@Alberth>it is supposed to be 2.9 (ie almost 3 tiles)
12:47<Ammler>or 2..9 with typo
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12:51<@peter1138>no, it's definitely 2,.9
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12:52<@Alberth>I agree, the first 'dot' is 2 pixels high, while the second is only 1
12:52<@peter1138>eh, i'm using larger fonts, it's clearly a comma
12:53<@peter1138>STR_ERROR_TRAIN_START_NO_CATENARY :This track lacks catenary, so the train can't start
12:53<@peter1138>nice bogus error message ;)
12:53<@Terkhen>strange, I get 1.,5 too
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12:55<+glx>@commit 22305
12:55<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by frosch :: r22305 /trunk/src (depot_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2011-04-09 20:27:34 UTC)
12:55<@DorpsGek>glx: -Add: One digit for the fractional part of train lengths in the depot view.
12:55<+glx>maybe this
12:58<@planetmaker>Here it shows 4.,0
12:58<@planetmaker>and not 4,.0
12:58<@Alberth>language settings?
13:00<@planetmaker>yes. It changes between English and German settings
13:00<@Terkhen>maybe the error is on how {DECIMAL} is handled
13:01<Ammler>such things should not be handled with language
13:01<@planetmaker>they belong there
13:01<@planetmaker>the decimal separator is a language setting
13:02<Ammler>no, it is regio/country setting
13:02<Ammler>like currency
13:02<@planetmaker>country = language
13:02<@peter1138>approximately
13:02<@peter1138>that isn't the issue
13:02<@Terkhen>english and german have their digitsepcur and decimalsep values switched, my guess is that is causing the difference
13:02<Ammler>oh well, you might also think, that German belong to Germany :'-(
13:03<@Terkhen>the problem is that it shouldn't be displaying decimalsep and digitsepcur at the same time :)
13:03<@planetmaker>Ammler: no. But that's exactly the reason why there's a German and a Swiss keyboard layout. It's a "translation" of sorts
13:03<Ammler>that's not the same
13:03<@planetmaker>very same
13:03<Ammler>do you speak now about language or about regio settings?
13:03<@peter1138>*region
13:04<@planetmaker>Ammler: that's why there's de_DE and de_CH
13:04<Ammler>yep
13:04<@planetmaker>so it's a language thing ;-)
13:04<Ammler>no those aren't different languages
13:04<Ammler>de is the language
13:05<Ammler>why is currency not managed by language?
13:06<@Terkhen>someone playing a country scenario might want to use its currency but it is unlikely that he wants to use its language too
13:07<@Terkhen>although that would be more realistic :P
13:07<@planetmaker>Ammler: ##isocode de_DE <-- from language file. So it belongs there
13:07<Ammler>yeah
13:08-!-perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:08<Ammler>no language for me :'-(
13:08<@planetmaker>No one created de_CH ;-)
13:08<Ammler>maybe with WT 4.0 :-)
13:08<@planetmaker>though a concept of fallback languages might make sense there...
13:08<+glx>there should be a fr_CH too ;)
13:08<@planetmaker>and an it_CH
13:09<@planetmaker>and rm_CH
13:09<@Alberth>Ammler would get lost in so many languages for him at the same time :)
13:09<@planetmaker>I wonder though how many people would use that ;-)
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>i thought fallback languages were implemented once upon a time?
13:11<Ammler>I guess, just that English is the fallback language
13:12<@planetmaker>it is the general one, yes.
13:12<frosch123>what? how does the ,. happen? it was not there last week...
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>no, i meant fallback languages other than english
13:13<Ammler>if so, there would be de_CH :-)
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13:14<@Alberth>text("Wellington",1), <-- famous town? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=941852#p941852
13:14<+glx>I hav ., too
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i heard that name before
13:15<@Alberth>oh, new zealand capital
13:15<frosch123>yeah, it prints both a thousand and a decimal separator
13:15<Ammler>is Amden in?
13:16<@planetmaker>Alberth: by my personal definition all towns where I lived are 'famous' :-P
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>how do you get fewer than 88 towns on a 1024^2 map?!?
13:16<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: manual town #
13:17<@Alberth>use the grf, although you may get exactly 88 then :)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22336 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r22304): {DECIMAL} printed too many thousand separators.
13:22<+glx>oh and I should fix thousand separator for french
13:24<Ammler>what is that?
13:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r22337 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Overly specific error message
13:29<@peter1138>ahh, sporadic commits :p
13:30<frosch123>any sane language uses "{NBSP}" for thousands separation
13:30*frosch123 senses a sed commit comming
13:30<@peter1138>feel free
13:30<+glx><frosch123> any sane language uses "{NBSP}" for thousands separation <-- indeed, that's what I need to fix
13:31<+glx>peter1138: did you compile before commit ?
13:32<@peter1138>bah
13:32<@peter1138>i grepped
13:33<@peter1138>ai has the right error though :p
13:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r22338 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.hpp.sq: -Fix (r22337): Compile-before-commit...
13:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r22339 /trunk/src/lang/french.txt: -Fix: french uses NBSP as digit separator, not dot
13:36<+glx>is someone renaming or removing string in all langfiles ?
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13:36<@planetmaker>they should be re-translated anyway
13:36<@planetmaker>so I'd not do anything
13:36<+glx>they should at least be removed then
13:37<@planetmaker>WT3 does that upon the next commit to that language afaik
13:37<@planetmaker>but still... might be better to remove them
13:39<+glx>we can wait 5 minutes :)
13:39<frosch123>testing tb's software?
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22340 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 32 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: swedish - 2 changes by Ledel
13:46<@planetmaker>even in all
13:46<+glx>WT fixes only languages with changes
13:47<@planetmaker>err, yes. the one brazilian one did change something else... and I only saw the -NO_POWER ;-)
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>we should issue a warning like "there are no vehicles available in this start year"
13:49<frosch123>just make all newgrf code object oriented without any global variables; then we can easily preload and preactivate grfs in the title screen
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: showing this after the start would suffice imho
13:50<+glx>would be nice to remove strings before the nightly
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>at least, it would be a first step...
13:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r22341 /trunk/src/lang/ (43 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Remove string unused since r22337
13:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r22342 /trunk/src/ai/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r22338): fix the right place and run the script
13:57<@peter1138>bah
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds evil :p
13:58<SmatZ>huh
13:59<SmatZ>why did that commit add so many files?
13:59<frosch123>it added properties :)
13:59<+glx>svn props
13:59<+glx>the script did it
13:59<@peter1138>0 byte files
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>i take back all complaints about the last abomination, since i encountered this: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=3827
14:01<frosch123>hmm, then glx's script does something different...
14:02<SmatZ>[new file with mode: 0644]
14:02<SmatZ>it says "new file"
14:02<frosch123>weird, if i delete all .sq files, it does not recreate ai_controller.hpp.sq
14:02<frosch123>SmatZ: yes, misread that
14:03<@peter1138>ugh, what?
14:03<+glx>squirrel_export.sh does add and propset
14:03<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: looks like a good path finder test :)
14:04<@peter1138>4 commits for one tiny change :P
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: doesn't look good for anything. especially it doesn't look good. and the signals are the wrong way around...
14:09<Bjarte>is there a way to prevent a player from going bankrupt in multiplayer or give them money?
14:09<SmatZ>Bjarte: you can give them money if you are playing
14:09<SmatZ>server can't give anyone money
14:09<Bjarte>2nd was what I was going for.. :)
14:10<Bjarte>thanks
14:10<SmatZ>:)
14:12<@planetmaker>no money ex machina ;-)
14:23<Sacro>hmm, he's not Bjarne
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14:23<SmatZ>hehe :)
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14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22343 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 3 dirs): -Change: Remove pixel limiter for query strings.
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22344 /trunk/src/ (signs_gui.cpp signs_type.h): -Codechange: Remove width constant from the sign list window.
14:44-!-mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ
14:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22345 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Change: Remove pixel limiter for text buffers.
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [sl] Laden des Spieles fehlgeschlagen
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22346 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp textbuf_gui.h): -Cleanup: Textbuf::max_pixels is not required anymore.
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>Interner Fehler: liblzma returned error code
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>wtf?
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>this is the title game...
14:48<@peter1138>hmm, that was predictable
14:48<@peter1138>windows no longer boots because...
14:48<@peter1138>the drive it was on has been removed :p
14:49<@SmatZ>:)
14:50<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: is it reproducible? do you have liblzma (openttd configured to support it)? do you have broken title savegame?
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: it also says it for any recent savegame
14:50<@SmatZ>weird
14:50<@SmatZ>I thought the title game is saved in lzo format
14:50<__ln__>"Internet Fehler" looks like it should be written without a space.
14:51<@SmatZ>:)
14:51<@Yexo>SmatZ: the old one is, the 1.1 one probably not
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>it's the title game competition winner
14:51<@SmatZ>Yexo: right :)
14:51<@SmatZ>I almost never run stable versions, so I forgot about that :)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'm gonna rebuild this...
14:51<@Terkhen>the title game for 1.1 was compressed with lzma highest compression IIRC
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>works after rebuild... weird...
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14:53<@SmatZ>maybe you linked against old liblzma and you updated it afterwards
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't remember updating anything lately...
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>anyway: would be nice if the error message stated _which_ error occured...
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: "interner Fehler" != "Internetfehler"
14:56<__ln__>oh, i should learn to read
14:56<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: shouldn't it be "Internerfehler" then?
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>no.
14:57<@SmatZ>ok - why?
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>because "intern" is an adjective
14:57<@SmatZ>hmm
14:57<@SmatZ>ok
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15:19<andythenorth>ho
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15:19<andythenorth>irc fun
15:19*andythenorth was blocked from oftc for reasons unknown
15:19<@SmatZ>andythenorth: using tor irc?
15:20-!-mode/#openttd [-R] by DorpsGek
15:20<@SmatZ>maybe you could complain at #oftc
15:21<+glx>seems the attack is finished
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15:23<@SmatZ>doesn't seem so
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause>better set +R again...
15:42*Hendikins plays a test game of OTTD, attempts to build a zig zag.
15:43-!-mode/#openttd [+R] by SmatZ
15:46-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
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15:51*LordAro was just forced to register :P
15:51*andythenorth too
15:51<andythenorth>ho ho
15:52<LordAro>been meaning to do it for a while anyway...
15:53<@SmatZ>:)
15:54*LordAro should now probably try to register nick with ChanServ and others as well
15:55<LordAro>unless of course they are all linked together
15:56<@planetmaker>LordAro: it's registered with oftc.net
15:56<@planetmaker>so in every channel on this network
15:57-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:57<LordAro>Alberth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1302976841#1302976841 and beyond
15:58<LordAro>planetmaker: i was talking about other networks, but i never go on them anyway, so it probably doesn't matter too much
15:58<@Alberth>so what did you decide?
15:59<LordAro>i didn't :)
15:59<LordAro>i thought a dev would be far more knowledgeable than me
15:59<LordAro>and since you've been helping me, i picked you first :P
16:00<@Alberth>if I have to tell everything, I may as well write the whole patch myself :p
16:00<LordAro>i just don't want to do the wrong thing, then have to re-write it
16:00<@Alberth>what requirements do the text files have?
16:01<@Alberth>(assuming a readme.txt file is indeed text :)
16:01<LordAro>requirements? you mean like uf-8?
16:01<@Alberth>that sounds like a good requirement to me :)
16:01<LordAro>and should there be a character limit? like 10000 or something?
16:01<andythenorth>LordAro: all code gets re-written ;)
16:02<andythenorth>the destiny of all code is to die
16:02<@Alberth>afaik, all the utf-8 routines in openttd use byte or char * or so, so 'string' will be less useful
16:02<LordAro>andythenorth: yeah, but preferably not rewritten before implementation :P
16:02<LordAro>Alberth: so 'char file[10000]' sort of thing?
16:03<@Alberth>as for max size, make a 'static const int MAX_README_LENGTH = 10000;' and use that constant
16:03<@Alberth>changing it will be easy then
16:03<LordAro>ok, but 10000 is good, yes?
16:04<@Alberth>pretty much any number is good while developing the code
16:04<LordAro>openttd's readme is 28k, but i guess a newgrf/ai/whatever isn't going to be that big...
16:04<@Alberth>I don't know how long an average readme file is
16:04<@Alberth>hmm, s/average/biggest/
16:05<@planetmaker>LordAro: many (big) patches which get merged into trunk are re-written at least once ;-)
16:05<@Alberth>@calc 28000 / 60
16:05<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 466.666666667
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16:05*LordAro goes hunting for readmes on openttdcoop
16:05<@planetmaker>don't be afraid to write one version. And then start all over again with the knowledge you gained from the first version.
16:06<@Alberth>500 lines sounds like a useful limit :)
16:06-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd
16:06<@planetmaker>640k is enough for everyone :-P
16:06<@Alberth>planetmaker: + more than :)
16:06<@planetmaker>indeed :-P
16:06<LordAro>planetmaker:i wouldn't call this a big patch, just a fairly rubbishy coder :L
16:06<LordAro>also, lol :)
16:07<@Alberth>but he is right, I tend to write a patch 2-3 times before I get it completely right.
16:08*andythenorth stops looking at FIRS milestone 'to do' list
16:08<andythenorth>depressing :|
16:09<LordAro>ogfx's readme is only 12k characters, and 312 lines
16:09*LordAro goes with 500 line limit :)
16:09<@planetmaker>if OpenGFX is 312 lines... do you know how long they are?
16:09<@planetmaker>@calc 12000/312
16:09<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 38.4615384615
16:10<andythenorth>are there RV sets besides egrvts?
16:10<@planetmaker>given the many empty lines... oh well ;-)
16:10*LordAro googles 'c++ read .txt file line limit' :D
16:10<@planetmaker>long vehicles, German RV, many tram sets
16:10<@planetmaker>NARVS
16:11<andythenorth>opengfx+ rvs?
16:11<@Alberth>LordAro: 500 lines is way too much for development anyway, you need no more than 10 lines or so. That amount is still countable by hand.
16:11<@planetmaker>there's a ^ and a free-of-charge car set for the towncar AI
16:11<LordAro>Alberth: thats true
16:12<@planetmaker>andythenorth: and HEQS :-P
16:12<@Alberth>even loading the readme file is not that much interesting, a far bigger problem is displaying such text in a scrollable window
16:12*andythenorth needs some trucks
16:12<@planetmaker>long vehicles has... long trucks
16:13<LordAro>Alberth/whoever: how's this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3081289/how-to-read-a-line-from-a-text-file-in-c-c/3081307#3081307
16:13<andythenorth>I can always add/remove grfs once I've started the game :)
16:13<@planetmaker>egrvts, of course, too
16:13<@planetmaker>egrvts is gpl
16:13<LordAro>obviously with a line 'limiter'
16:13<@planetmaker>at least de-facto the sprites, as many are active in OpenGFX.
16:15<@Alberth>LordAro: for ascii it might work, but you'll need to do utf-8 processing too
16:15<@Alberth>(although do only ascii first would be my suggestion)
16:16<@planetmaker>a Chinese readme might eat way more bytes than it displays characters ;-)
16:16<@planetmaker>or any CJK - readme
16:16<LordAro>are there any?
16:16<@Alberth>but they need less characters to write a word :p
16:17<@planetmaker>:-)
16:17<@planetmaker>LordAro: dunno. I usually have little use for them. And might not even recognize them, if I found them linked with a native language description
16:17<@Alberth>LordAro: pretend that the src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt is a readme file
16:18<LordAro>heh :)
16:18<LordAro>all in good time :p
16:20<@planetmaker>when I play(ed) with languages, I found it's sufficient to test a few: English (of course), some East-European like Czech or Polish, Russian, Arabic and Chinese.
16:20<@planetmaker>That covers most problematic things
16:21<@planetmaker>Maybe add Korean and Japanese for added fun.
16:21<LordAro>i think i'll wait until there are multi language readmes until i worry about that too much
16:22<@planetmaker>But that might not work. And not your fault: The used font is decided upon language selection based on the language file
16:22<@planetmaker>If you then later have a custom-named station for example in glyphs which are not in the font, you'll have a station named ???????????????
16:22<@planetmaker>such you'd then also get with the multi-language readme under those kind of circumstances
16:23<LordAro>well by the time it gets committed, its not my problem anymore :P
16:25<LordAro>summary: i'll think about multi-language support, when i've got english working :)
16:26<@planetmaker>no one said you should do differently.
16:26<@Alberth>do note that you normally don't get EOF when reading a readme file from a tar
16:27<@planetmaker>that's ugly
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16:28<@Alberth>why? tar packs all files together, so the readme has a start and a size somewhere in the middle of the tar
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>vehicles might need a property "make this vehicle available when vehicle XX is available".
16:29<@Yexo>a wrapper class could easily return EOF as soon as you hit that size
16:29<@planetmaker>yep.
16:29<@Yexo>although in that case it might be impossible to get to work with the standard library functions
16:30<@Alberth>you just have to keep track of how many bytes you have already read
16:32<@Terkhen>andythenorth: opengfx+ rvs should work fine, but it is still missing sprites for newgrf cargos
16:32<andythenorth>sprites are over-rated anyway
16:32<andythenorth>;)
16:32<@Terkhen>I also want nice names for the models, instead of using MKII and so on
16:32<@Terkhen>but you should not miss refit support for all cargos
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16:37<andythenorth>meh
16:37<andythenorth>default tropic foundations suck for stations on coastline
16:37-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:43<@Alberth>tropic climate sucks for lack of vehicles during the 'electrics' age
16:43<@Alberth>+new train
16:45<@planetmaker>that's what we have newgrf for ;-)
16:47-!-andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.69.103] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:50<@Terkhen>hmm... would it be complicated to do a tropic + electric option for opengfx+ trains?
16:51<@Alberth>the point is that tropic does not have electric, so you need new non-electric trains
16:52*Alberth ponders running steam for a much longer time, as many tropical countries do :)
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16:59<@Terkhen>it is possible to change the snowline height on a scenario?
17:02-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D425.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:03<frosch123>maybe via console?
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17:06<LordAro>night all
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17:07<@Terkhen>frosch123: thanks, that worked :)
17:08<@Terkhen>I wonder why it goes from 16 to 104, though
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>snow line is counted in multiples of 8
17:14<frosch123>there are two settings apparently :s
17:15<@Terkhen>I modified game_creation.sno_line
17:15<@Terkhen>snow_line*
17:15<frosch123>no idea what the other one does :)
17:20<@Yexo>most likely they can be merged
17:21<frosch123>likely one is the value at game start, while the other one is the current one, which might be overrridden by newgrfs on every new day
17:21<@Yexo>nope, the newgrf values are in an array
17:22<@Yexo>there is a wrapper function GetSnowLine() to get the current snow line
17:22<frosch123>but is the array item lookep up every time?
17:22<frosch123>or only on newday?
17:22<@Yexo>yes, always
17:25<@Yexo>snow_line_height is only used for the gui, snow_line is set to snow_line_height * TILE_HEIGHT in InitializeClearLand()
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>i still have not found a sensible way to extend snow line and land info newgrf variables for more heightlevels...
17:27<@Yexo>it cannot be done without extending the newgrf spec
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, snow line could be extended from B to W, but land info is some bitstuffing magic
17:28<@Yexo>problem with land info is that the height doesn't fit anymore in the allocated bits
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>there are 4 "reserved" bits left, but they wouldn't be continguous with the height info
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17:28<@Yexo>just return 15 for all height levels over 15 doesn't work, because in that case newgrf are not able to detect relative tile heights anymore
17:29<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: most places use 8 bits for the heightlevels, so that is no problem
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's fine up to height level 31
17:29<frosch123>there is only one place afaik which uses 5 bits or so,
17:29<frosch123>afaik in newsignals, but who cares about that
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>but 32*8=256
17:30<frosch123>remove the 8 multiplier
17:30<@Yexo>frosch123: but that breaks existing newgrfs
17:30<frosch123>that way most newgrfs will actually continue to work
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>that isn't clean either
17:30<@Yexo>or rather, it needs nfo version 8 (or a misc bit set somewhere)
17:30<frosch123>since most are only interested in the absolute height on the map
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. FIRS has the calculation "height"-"snow line"+8
17:31<frosch123>e.g. in mountains, or at sea level
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>this would break with the removal of the multiplier, so it needs to be rewritten to "height"-"snow line"+1
17:31<@Yexo>frosch123: aren't industry layout location checking callbacks only interested in the relative tile height?
17:32<frosch123>imo, just extent the mapsize variable in the action d patch variables, to also return the number of heightsteps, and the "height difference" between two height levels (8 by default)
17:32<frosch123>Yexo: usually they only check the slope, not the relative heights
17:32<@Yexo>still breaks old newgrf, and makes writing new ones a pain
17:32<@Yexo>hmm, true
17:32<frosch123>but, if they check the heights, there is no way to not break them
17:33<@Yexo>yes, but that's the whole problem
17:33<frosch123>why is that a problem?
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17:33<@Yexo>breaking newgrfs is a problem
17:34<frosch123>it is not the first time, that newgrfs are not compatible to new features
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but removing the multiplier also breaks newgrfs without using more heightlevels
17:35<frosch123>just say, these newgrfs do not work with other height levels than 16 steps of height 8, and be done with it :)
17:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i mean the multiplier should scale as well
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>now that'd be weird :p
17:35<frosch123>fix it to 0..128 for all maps (i.e. actually limit to 128 height levels instead of 256)
17:35<@Yexo>frosch123: a non-constant multiplier will make it very hard to use
17:35<frosch123>and supply the number of heightlevels and the stepsize in some var
17:36<@Yexo>I'd say just change the multiplier to 1 and be done with it
17:36<frosch123>Yexo: i still think checking the absolute height is far more common than checking relative heights
17:37<frosch123>and in that case you are indeed breaking every grf even if you do not use more height levels
17:37<@Yexo>you're probably right
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>i lean to: change the multiplier to 1, if the newgrf sets a flag. that keeps (some) compatibility with old newgrfs-
17:38-!-KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-130.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:38<frosch123>anyway, need to sleep :)
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17:59<@Terkhen>good night
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18:27<Eddi|zuHause>www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/5348.jpg <-- that's "multimodal" transportation :p
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18:36<DanMacK>Hey Robo
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18:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think he ever saw that line :p
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19:23<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 18 00:00:13 2011