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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-18

---Logopened Mon Apr 18 00:00:13 2011
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01:09<@SmatZ>morning
01:21-!-Pokka [~yaaic@120.21.234.233] has joined #openttd
01:21<Pokka>ew
01:22<@SmatZ>mornong, Pokka
01:22<Pokka>mornong
01:22<Pokka>what's cooking?
01:23<@SmatZ>not much I guess
01:24<Pokka>oh
01:25*Pokka feels like a sleep
01:26<Pokka>or doing some 3d for av8
01:26<@SmatZ>:)
01:26<Pokka>sadly I am sitting in a bus behind the museum and can't do either
01:32<@SmatZ>:(
01:34<Pokka>only 4 hours til I can go home...
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03:31<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:25<Pokka>I'm back! at the museum again D:
04:31<Pokka>good moin terkhen
04:32<@Terkhen>hi Pokka
04:34*Hendikins decides that since he's got no real trains to play with at work today, he'll play some ottd.
04:35<dihedral>good morning ladies :-)
04:36<Pokka>lucky you hendikins
04:36<Pokka>oh well
04:36*Pokka on the way home, at least
04:44<Hendikins>Pokka: I'd rather be doing work than sitting on standby.
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06:02-!-mode/#openttd [-R] by Terkhen
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06:09<Pikka>well
06:09<Pikka>this was a disappointment
06:11-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
06:12<Wolf01>hello
06:13<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
06:14-!-Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
06:16*Hendikins yawns some, ponders whether he gets overly elegant in this game.
06:29<dihedral>...
06:29<dihedral>sounds like something worth to ponder ^^
06:31<Hendikins>The thing is, elegant gets expensive.
06:33<Pikka>bump the elephant isn't quite as elegant
06:33<Hendikins>So the question is probably more correctly stated as "Am I pissing money up the wall by being overly elegant?"
06:33<Pikka>the elegant bits are usually simpler though, so why would they be more expensive?
06:34<Pikka>or maybe I'm just interpreting "elegant" as "not building junctions three times the size of cities"
06:36<Hendikins>Elegant is stuff that isn't quick and dirty.
06:37<Hendikins>For example, I might run a straight and more level double track corridor and do the associated earthworks, rather than just running a track wherever I can find a space.
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06:48<Mazur>Good...
06:55<Hendikins>Balloon loops, runaround roads, etc.
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07:03<@planetmaker>moin
07:03<Markk>Oi
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07:04<Eddi|zuHause>hm... anyone noticed how germany is (almost) the only european country without a major boost in right-wing parties over the last few years?
07:07<__ln__>implicitly noticed
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't suppose it's possible to make a vehicle both articulated and dualheaded
07:10<Wolf01>airports' buses
07:10-!-DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-86-17.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit []
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>i meant "dualheaded" as "able to put wagons in the middle"
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07:29<Pikka>Eddi|zuHause: no, it is not possible
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07:56<Eddi|zuHause>www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/4481.jpg <-- interesting, electrification without track...
08:05<Hendikins>Line possibly singled?
08:05<Hendikins>After all, you'd lay the track before wiring it.
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>nope, it's a visual illusion... www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/4465.jpg <-- here you see the second track ;)
08:09<Hendikins>Oddly enough, there have been cases of wired roads being singled and the overhead being left up.
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08:57<@Belugas>hello
08:58<Wolf01>hello
08:59*Belugas is in an awfull mood. spent part of the night in emergency. Son has an ear infection. it did NOT required emergency, but it made mom felt better
08:59<@Belugas>and that is a good reason enough to get there ...
09:01<@planetmaker>hi Belugas
09:03<@Belugas>hi Wolf01, hi planetmaker :)
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09:15<@planetmaker>wb Belugas
09:16<@Belugas>:)
09:16<@Belugas>tx
09:16<@Belugas>i though a grandma has cut the fiber optic cable ;)
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09:34<yorick>hrrm, PBI is not on bananas?
09:34<@planetmaker>possibly not. Bug pikka
09:35<Pikka>PBI was never "finished"
09:35<yorick>well I enjoyed it
09:36<@planetmaker>Well, but it's used often enough that it might warrant distribution ;-) And the 'not finished' feeling definitely does not come up
09:36-!-andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
09:36<andythenorth>it's a shame the fund industry tool can't show when a position would be valid for construction
09:36<@planetmaker>it's not a comprehensive re-make of all industries as FIRS or ECS, but a small but neat modification of the existing ones with some small additions
09:37<@planetmaker>which in itself could be a valid goal which is achieved there nicely
09:37<@planetmaker>and it'd be one step more to making the coop grfpack obsolete :-P
09:37*andythenorth loves PBI
09:38<andythenorth>is anything ever finished? :P
09:38<@planetmaker>Pikka, you could alternatively upload it with a max version set to 1.0 or so. Then only old savegames could trigger a download. But... ^
09:38<andythenorth>PBI may not be finished, but it is 'done'
09:38<andythenorth>:D
09:39<Pikka>TaI basic industries!
09:39<Pikka>one day I will finish it!
09:39<@peter1138>TAI!
09:39<@planetmaker>that's a different thing :-)
09:39<andythenorth>TAI TAI!
09:39<Pikka>it will be all 19thcenturyised!
09:39<andythenorth>bonkers
09:40<@peter1138>it'll be all fields when i were a lad
09:40<Pikka>yes
09:40<@peter1138>clearly 32 cargo types and x industry types IS NOT ENOUGH
09:40<Pikka>I'm pretty sure we need 128 cargo types
09:41<andythenorth>why stop there?
09:41<andythenorth>256?
09:41<@peter1138>pfft
09:41<@peter1138>why limit at all
09:41<@planetmaker>and every industry being unique.
09:41<@peter1138>over 9000 cargo types
09:41<andythenorth>I'm pretty sure I've invented then binned at least 9000 cargo types
09:41<Pikka>mind you
09:41<Pikka>before you do that
09:41<andythenorth>ah...but they can all be done with (subtypes)
09:41<andythenorth>:P
09:41<Pikka>you need to make industries accept/produce more than 3/2 cargos :)
09:42<andythenorth> subtypes are *really* a great idea :\
09:42<@planetmaker>they are ;-)
09:42<andythenorth>Pikka: industries should produce at least 9000 cargos
09:42<Pikka>ALSO
09:42<Pikka>someone needs to finish newairports :}
09:42<andythenorth>oh was that mentioned?
09:43<andythenorth>newports
09:43<Pikka>my cousins are newports
09:43*andythenorth wants to sack the stupid water-industry-airports
09:43<andythenorth>for a better way
09:43<Pikka>yes, we need newports which allow all vehicle types
09:43<@peter1138>newpikka
09:44<Pikka>so we can make gibraltar airport
09:44<andythenorth>new peter1138
09:44<andythenorth>new roadtypes!
09:44<Pikka>those too
09:44<andythenorth>new extended action 2 tile layouts :P
09:44<Pikka>so we can make canals as roads
09:44<@peter1138>newless
09:44<andythenorth>newmore
09:44<Pikka>anyway
09:45<andythenorth>how many cargos should an industry produce?
09:45<@Terkhen>newnew
09:45<Pikka>av8 2.0, 20th of october, floatplanes with wakes which will look very odd landing on concrete :D
09:45<yorick>we need less complicated graphics format!
09:45<andythenorth>eh?
09:45<Pikka>apparently!
09:45<andythenorth>we need more complicated graphics format!
09:45<andythenorth>more spec! more features!
09:45<@Terkhen>no, developing newgrfs must take a big toll on the coder's sanity
09:46<andythenorth>there's no evidence of that here
09:46<Pikka>nope
09:46<yorick>andythenorth: more advanced, less complicated
09:46<Pikka>.avi
09:46<Pikka>ah yes, yorick
09:46<andythenorth>meh
09:46<@peter1138>ini files?
09:46*andythenorth sees no big wins in that
09:46<andythenorth>lot of work for no benefit
09:47<andythenorth>industries should produce 7 cargos?
09:47<@planetmaker>nah. 32
09:47<@planetmaker>and input, too
09:47<Pikka>the old "do what I want you to do without me having to actually work it out in a logical way" programming that so many people need so they can get into coding. :P
09:47<@planetmaker>then finally there can be oversea ports
09:47<@Terkhen>besides overseas ports, can you give an example of an industry producing 7 separate cargos? :P
09:47<@peter1138>de-special-case everything
09:48<andythenorth>Terkhen: forest
09:48<@planetmaker>Terkhen: chocolate factory: nougat, marzipan, chocolate easter bunnies, chocolate santa clause, chocolate easter eggs, ... ;-)
09:48<andythenorth>exactamly
09:48<yorick>Pikka: yes that
09:48<yorick>Pikka: or even squirrel based newgrfs :)
09:48<Pikka>ew
09:48<@planetmaker>where's that easier, yorick ?
09:48<@Terkhen>meh, you are just making too specific cargos
09:49*andythenorth likes the annoying 2-cargo output limit
09:49<@planetmaker>:-) @ Terkhen ;-)
09:49<andythenorth>although a cb might be a better way...
09:49<@Terkhen>there was a project for squirrel GRFs...
09:49<@planetmaker>was it yorick's project?
09:49<Pikka>I think what we need is even more ways to write grfs, so that the knowledge and assistance base for new coders is even more fragmented than it is now
09:49<@Terkhen>it might be, I don't remember much :)
09:49<andythenorth>if we make it simple enough....anyone could write a grf
09:49<yorick>Pikka: it wasn't
09:49<andythenorth>imagine the unlocking of creativity that would allow
09:50<@peter1138>s/creativity/crap/
09:50<andythenorth>"because stupid people make the best game designers"
09:50<@planetmaker>:-P
09:50<@Terkhen>:d
09:50<Pikka>andythenorth: you know what would make a really good newgrf?
09:50<andythenorth>nfo + pngs?
09:51<Pikka>all the trains/planes that I, personally, have been on in the last couple of years
09:51<@planetmaker>:-)
09:51<Pikka>and maybe one steam locomotive for completeness
09:51<@peter1138>lol
09:51<@planetmaker>Pikka, I always assumed we have that: NARS + UKRS2 + av8 ;-)
09:51<andythenorth>you know what would make a better newgrf?
09:51<andythenorth>everything in these videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/tournadude
09:52<@peter1138>nah, all ottd really needs is a race car grf
09:52<@Terkhen>we need a real mars grf
09:52<andythenorth>a proper space climate? :o
09:52<@Terkhen>andythenorth: isn't that heqs?
09:52<andythenorth>not really
09:53<@planetmaker>nah. It needs a Mars GRF. A moon GRF. and rockets as 5th transport type.
09:53<Pikka>ew spaceclimate
09:53<andythenorth>Terkhen I restrained myself :P
09:53<andythenorth>spaceclimate would take fricking ages I reckon
09:53<@planetmaker>andythenorth, how so?
09:53<andythenorth>unlikely anyone's got time for that
09:53<@planetmaker>drawing side?
09:53<Pikka>especially if the creator got bored with it about 60% of the way through
09:53<andythenorth>what's really needed is this: http://www.youtube.com/user/tournadude#p/u/16/CF6cskF9aJ4
09:53<@planetmaker>:-D
09:53<Pikka>and decided to use waiting for newports as an excuse for putting it off
09:54*planetmaker now does not look into Pikka's direction and sprite drawer
09:54<Pikka>these sure are some transport vehicles you're showing off, andythenorth
09:54<@Terkhen>a good excuse, the existing airports would look strange for rockets, spaceships and so on
09:54<andythenorth>this might need newports http://www.youtube.com/user/tournadude#p/u/42/Mzseq5Ti3Xg
09:55<andythenorth>newlocks?!?
09:55<@planetmaker>"real" locks :-P
09:55<@Terkhen>"ships don't climb slopes" locks
09:55<andythenorth>27 cargos for industries?
09:55<andythenorth>hmm
09:55<andythenorth>but seriously....
09:56<@peter1138>NUM_CARGOS
09:56<@planetmaker>andythenorth, add it to newgrf specs v8 ;-)
09:56<andythenorth>I don't actually mind
09:56<andythenorth>constraints are somewhat good
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09:57<andythenorth>I can cheat for acceptance using the tile acceptance
09:57<@peter1138>what ottd needs is a scrollbar in the minimap
09:57<@planetmaker>Terkhen, how big is your andalusia scenario?
09:57<andythenorth>peter1138: or something similar
09:57<@Terkhen>1024*512
09:57<andythenorth>keys or something
09:57<andythenorth>scrolling minimap drives me nuts
09:57<Pikka>NUM NUM NUM cargos
09:57<@planetmaker>hm... borderline, but ok :-)
09:57<@Terkhen>the last version was 2048*1024 :P
09:57<@peter1138>not for the minimap itself
09:57<andythenorth>Pikka: what's planned for regearing?
09:57<@peter1138>but the huge list of industry types
09:58<@Terkhen>512*256 was too small
09:58<Pikka>putting it in a bucket and setting fire to it, andythenorth
09:58<andythenorth>peter1138 LessIndustries?
09:58<andythenorth>reduce the limit to 32, problem solved
09:58<andythenorth>Pikka currently I have to keep a FIRS slot free for regearing...
09:58<@peter1138>i'm getting old so i use a larger-than-normal font size ;p
09:58<Pikka>I'll get rid of it in the next version of NARS2, whenever that may be
09:58<andythenorth>NARS3?
09:59<@Terkhen>planetmaker: are you planning to try it?
09:59<andythenorth>peter1138: still trying HEQS? Or some other grf with insane amounts of industry types?
09:59<andythenorth>oops FIRS :m
10:00<@peter1138>FIRS, yes
10:00*andythenorth should just merge all grfs into one :P
10:00<@planetmaker>Terkhen, I just got the idea to upload it to one of the servers as a map. And see what people make of it ;-)
10:00<andythenorth>peter1138: is it version from bananas? or nightly?
10:00<andythenorth>nightly has some stinking problems
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10:01<@Terkhen>I did not add much newgrfs to it... it needs the new scenario features to customize it
10:01<@Terkhen>which server? I would like to see and maybe play a bit :)
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10:05<Pikka>any road
10:05<Pikka>I think it's well past bedtime
10:05<Pikka>goodnight gentlemen
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10:05<@planetmaker>Terkhen, I know. osie is nice ;-)
10:06<@Terkhen>does it also mentions the mess I did while trying opengfx+ landscape? :P
10:06<@planetmaker>I haven't yet decided on a server. I'd talk to V453000 about it ;-)
10:06<@planetmaker>Terkhen, nope ;-)
10:06<@planetmaker>just the current state
10:06<V453000>? :)
10:06<@Terkhen>the gamelog is quite long, I tried a lot of combinations and saved after deciding on one
10:07<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=40542 <-- V453000
10:07<@Terkhen>I have a newgrf-less version too
10:07<@planetmaker>those two are fine with me ;-)
10:07<@Terkhen>ok :)
10:08<V453000>massive flat map :|
10:10<@Terkhen>the big mountains are at the east, the western part is quite flat
10:11<V453000>it is all flat, the mountains are so smooth that the hillness doesnt really apply _
10:11<V453000>:(
10:11<@planetmaker>would make for an SML game ;-)
10:11<@planetmaker>or SRNW
10:11<@planetmaker>or... chaos!
10:11<V453000>it might be realistic, but I would not play it myself
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10:12<V453000>pm: either of those still is nicer with hills, particularly chaos ;)
10:12<@planetmaker>chaos might be
10:14<@planetmaker>V453000, we've had very nice games on pretty flat maps, too
10:14<V453000>what I seek in scenarios (and none has it as far as I know), is something special, something the terragen does not give you. For example, I once did a scenario with a town on a super steep hill. The player had to supply the town with supplies that were on the coast, and weight multiplier was high
10:14<andythenorth>'design'
10:14<andythenorth>:D
10:14<@planetmaker>V453000, wasteland ;-)
10:14<V453000>but when I have a map and say "okay, terragen could have made something more interesting" ... then ... bah
10:14<@planetmaker>but that might be cargodist only. Not sure
10:14<@Terkhen>reality is boring :P
10:15<andythenorth>I've made scenarios like 'big river'
10:15<andythenorth>should be obvious what that one is :P
10:15<V453000>for example the first OSQC osai made was totally awesome, because it was something you cannot get from a heightmap or a generator
10:15<@planetmaker>yep
10:15<V453000>lots of some quests, lots of problems, and so on
10:16<V453000>which is what all other scenarios miss, and which is why I do not play them
10:16<andythenorth>shame there's no way to script things like town growth, industry opening etc
10:16<andythenorth>probably never going to happen, would screw with too much other stuff
10:16<@Terkhen>V453000: you might like geogen
10:17<andythenorth>an AI with money cheat would be a bit like a scenario scripting engine...
10:17<V453000>I like terra genesis as it is ... without the variety distribution :)
10:17<andythenorth>someone was going to fix terra genesis?
10:18<@Terkhen>geogen has some scripts that generate different types of heightmaps
10:18<@Terkhen>islands, archipielagos, "crater" maps and so on
10:18<@planetmaker>andythenorth, a scripting of towns or so... is envisionable and IMHO not out-of-question. But it's not a small thing and free for the taking to come up with a scenario script engine
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10:21<yorick>Terkhen: I remember seeing something like geogen when I went to delft recently
10:22<andythenorth>NARS needs narrow gauge :o
10:22<@planetmaker>V453000, while I completely agree with "the more mountainous and fjord-like a map, the merrier", it should not necessarily mean that we always use such maps. I've had pretty nice PS games on rather flat tropical maps, too
10:22<@planetmaker>Would make for a good noob game :-P
10:22<V453000>true
10:23<V453000>the size is more of a problem then ... 512x1024 just is too much imo
10:23<@planetmaker>it's border-line, yes.
10:23<V453000>even 512x512 is very big nowadays
10:24<@planetmaker>well. It'd be something different then ;-)
10:24<V453000>it is not about different, but about a dead game where people just have too much to build
10:24<@planetmaker>And yes, I know and agree. And it's for good reasons.
10:25<@planetmaker>But a 0.5M tiles map won't be a 'dead' game'. Building ML is quick
10:25*andythenorth has just started a flat tropic map
10:25<andythenorth>with a lot of water
10:25<@planetmaker>and you don't need more stations
10:25<@Terkhen>I usually play flat because I'm lazy :P
10:25<andythenorth>Terkhen: you miss so much fun :P
10:25<@planetmaker>you just can aford less trains, though due to CPU limits
10:25<andythenorth>I have allowed FIRS farms to be totally evil on steep slopes
10:25<V453000>I will think about it ;)
10:26<@Terkhen>andythenorth: nice :)
10:26<@planetmaker>sweet, andythenorth ! :-)
10:26<@planetmaker>Finally I can create a real Norwegian fjord scenario
10:27<andythenorth>they've been like this for a while :)
10:27<andythenorth>most of them can build on steep slopes
10:27<@Terkhen>that would be interesting to play :)
10:27<@planetmaker>Where farms could only be reached by means of a rope ladder
10:27<andythenorth>it makes building stations tricky
10:27<andythenorth>and because FIRS farms typically need 3 stations...
10:27<andythenorth>it's hard :P
10:27<@planetmaker>:-) just build heliports :-P
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10:28<@Terkhen>distant stations?
10:29<@planetmaker>well, with that, there's no need for heliports then.
10:29<@Terkhen>but distant stations are boring
10:30<@planetmaker>most often: yes
10:33<yorick>why is there a src/ai/ai.hpp.sq
10:34<andythenorth>can you build heliports on steep slopes?
10:34<@planetmaker>nope
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10:35<@planetmaker>there's virtually nothing which can be built there
10:35<andythenorth>non-drive through rv stops?
10:35<andythenorth>see - it's evil :D
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10:35<@planetmaker>andythenorth, evil is different ;-)
10:36<@planetmaker>evil would be to make sure that the surrounding tiles within r=3 are also steep slopes :-P
10:36<andythenorth>ho
10:36<andythenorth>yes
10:36<andythenorth>indeed
10:37<yorick>what is a paused openttd using 3% cpu for?
10:37<@Terkhen>GUI
10:37<yorick>server
10:37<@Terkhen>no clue :)
10:37<yorick>someone would have to profile it
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10:38<@planetmaker>That sounds like volunteering it
10:38<@Terkhen>:P
10:38<yorick>that sounds like volunteering someone else :P
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10:39<@Terkhen>someone else has the bad habit of ignoring tasks forwarded to him... if he did his job I would not need to code
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10:42<@peter1138>it still loops to see if it should be unpaused
10:42<@peter1138>it still handles network connections and the like
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10:44<yorick>it can use select() and friends to check the network connections
10:44<yorick>and it shouldn't be unpaused without players
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10:47<@Terkhen>you can configure the number of users required for unpausing the game IIRC
10:48<yorick>but it's always more than 1
10:48<yorick>or 0, in which case it should always be paused
10:48<yorick>unpause* unless manual pause
10:48<@peter1138>yes, you could, but that's not how the dedicated server works
10:49<@peter1138>(because it's based on a game engine loop which generally don't idle)
10:49<yorick>ok then, thanks peter1138 and also maybe Terkhen
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10:50<@planetmaker>of course you can set the min_active_clients also to exactly one
10:50<LordAro>afternoon all
10:50<@peter1138>it's part of the heritage of the dedicated server being "video driver" hack...
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11:05<@Belugas>#John, I'm only dancing
11:05<@Belugas>#You turned me on!
11:05<@Belugas>#She turns me on
11:05<@Belugas>#Don't get me wrong
11:05<@Belugas>#I'm only dancing!!
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12:17<dihedral>yorick, but you can implement that feature with a bot :-P
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12:27<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/big.png
12:27<@peter1138>i... dislike that window
12:29<andythenorth>what has it done to offend?
12:30<@peter1138>the huge amount of brown
12:30<andythenorth>you have a lot brown relative to map
12:30<andythenorth>the map:brown ratio is all wrong :P
12:30<@peter1138>exactly!
12:32<V453000>andythenorth: do you know that when you make for example the concrete tile with CHIPS, it still shows the electrification, if the rails are electrified?
12:32<andythenorth>oh
12:32<andythenorth>file a bug :D
12:32<andythenorth>it's just some bits I guess
12:33<V453000>now you know :p
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12:49<@Belugas>He knows, you know
12:49<@Belugas>AND HE HAS PROBLEMS
12:50<@planetmaker>that's what she said :-P
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12:54<V453000>:)
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13:15<@Belugas>#What a drag it is to get old
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13:32-!-Mucht is "Martin Nussbaumer" on @#coopetition @#JJ @+#openttdcoop.association @#openttdcoop.dev #wwottdgd #openttd @#tycoon.de @#openttdcoop
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13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22347 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 1 changes by notAbot
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
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13:58-!-ZirconiumX [561b9caa@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
14:00<ZirconiumX>hello all
14:03-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:03<@Terkhen>hi ZirconiumX
14:03<ZirconiumX>hello Terkhen
14:04*ZirconiumX must get on with D*
14:05<ZirconiumX>I'm still in the bizarre situation that everything works except the function returning the path... :S
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14:08<ZirconiumX>else if (getG(s_start) == infinity) { /* path = null; */ return false;
14:08<ZirconiumX>the commented area is 'broken'
14:08<ZirconiumX>I have declared infinity
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14:14<ZirconiumX>I wonder
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14:16<ZirconiumX>hello Alberth
14:16<ZirconiumX>If I set path = false; return path;
14:16<ZirconiumX>will that work?
14:17<@Alberth>would be equivalent to return false; wouldn't it?
14:17<ZirconiumX>exactly
14:17-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.64.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:18<ZirconiumX>as a function collects that result - it returns false
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14:19<ZirconiumX>lol
14:19<ZirconiumX>throw("It usually helps if you give a path that *is* valid");
14:20<@Alberth>false does not look like a valid path to me :p
14:20<ZirconiumX>hence meaning - there is no path
14:21<ZirconiumX>whch AFAIK is what A* does, does it not?
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14:24<andythenorth>eviling
14:24<@Alberth>depends on the implementation. The algorithm just describes what to do, not how you code results
14:25<@Alberth>evening andy
14:25<ZirconiumX>(openttd implementation)
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14:26<@Alberth>you'll have to read the pf code, I don't know that without reading the code too
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15:17<andythenorth>if I delete this giant textile mill layout...
15:17<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/giant_textile_mill.png
15:17<andythenorth>...would anyone miss it?
15:17<andythenorth>it's big and silly
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15:21<@Alberth>I will not miss it
15:22<andythenorth>how do I make money on short routes? :P
15:22<andythenorth>my trams lose money
15:22<andythenorth>my train loses money
15:22<andythenorth>I don't have any other rvs yet
15:22<andythenorth>ho
15:22<andythenorth>maybe I adjust tram running costs :)
15:23<supermop>beeching axe
15:23<andythenorth>1880?
15:23<andythenorth>railway boom :P
15:23<supermop>heh
15:23<supermop>have people start with lower expectations?
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15:26<andythenorth>can I ask a question?
15:27<Prof_Frink>No. Not even that one.
15:27<andythenorth>ok thanks
15:27<@Alberth>supermop: they just start earlier
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15:29<supermop>other than low running cost, im not sure there is a solution
15:30<andythenorth>but people whine about low running cost :(
15:31<supermop>indeed
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15:31<supermop>but without a way to have premium fares of some sort there isnt really a way around that
15:34<@Alberth>andythenorth: but those people can run a basecost mod grf, right?
15:34<andythenorth>ho
15:35<andythenorth>in HEQS I just adjust the cost parameter :D
15:35<andythenorth>seems like cheating though ;)
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15:37<@Alberth>my point is mostly that you want a modular system, so people can decide for their own how to play
15:37<@Alberth>a cost parameter could also work :)
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16:01<Hendikins>Gnar. Irritating when you put the infrastructure in to support an industry and it goes belly up before you get a load to it.
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16:02<andythenorth>I can solve that for you :D
16:03<Hendikins>I used my cashflow to solve it - I just built another one.
16:03*andythenorth :P
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16:05<Hendikins>The new one definitely won't go tits up.
16:05<andythenorth>does manual industries grf solve closure problem?
16:05<supermop>hmmm maybe i should actually play some ottd
16:06<supermop>havent it awhile
16:06<andythenorth>it's kind of fun
16:06<andythenorth>I heard :P
16:07*andythenorth is playing the game today
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16:07<supermop>i havent beeen able to generate a decent map lately
16:08*Hendikins is quite enjoying the game on a 2560x1440 display at the moment.
16:08<supermop>and making a satisfying one by hand is much too hard
16:08<Hendikins>And after 30 game years I finally added my first passenger service. Heh.
16:09*Hendikins had 5 oilfields in fairly close proximity and a dock that would accept passengers (which was for sea -> rail transfer of oil), so whacked a hovercraft on.
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16:20<andythenorth>should I add a pottery to FIRS?
16:20<andythenorth>accepts clay
16:20<andythenorth>produces goods
16:21<supermop>maaybe as an earlier industry
16:21<supermop>are you thinking of something like a cottage industry, or like wedgewood?
16:22<andythenorth>not sure
16:22<andythenorth>just thinking
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16:24<@Belugas>new industry : accepts wood, cotton, feathers and stone
16:24<@Belugas>produces bows
16:24<@Belugas>and arrrows
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16:25<@Belugas>graphycally : sand pit like, with smoke rising, bones laying scatered all around the place
16:25<andythenorth>error: exceed number of input cargos permitted
16:26<@Belugas>let's change that :)
16:26<andythenorth>also...both outputs go to same place
16:26<andythenorth>so might as well be one cargo :P
16:26*Prof_Frink returns to his TempSet game
16:26<frosch123>pottery is one of the first technologies in civ 1
16:27<frosch123>but nothing depends on it
16:27<andythenorth>not sure what it would add to FIRS
16:27<andythenorth>but it's an idea
16:27<andythenorth>frosch123: anything can be done to help extended tile layouts?
16:28<frosch123>no idea, i won't be around next weekend either :s
16:29<andythenorth>ho hum
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16:29*andythenorth plans much drawing in that case :P
16:30<andythenorth>it's done when it's done :)
16:30<frosch123>wait one more month :)
16:31<andythenorth>ok
16:33*andythenorth will have to redraw glass works soon
16:33<andythenorth>sooooo ugly
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16:57<frosch123>night
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17:02<Absurd-Mind>hi
17:03<Absurd-Mind>is there something like a mission patch for openttd? (something like "deliver 3000 units of coal per month")
17:06<@SmatZ>maybe luukland's server offers something like that
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17:08<andythenorth>'fund' button isn't updated when newgrf is reloaded and result of cb22 changed
17:08<andythenorth>guess it's not marked as dirty
17:08<andythenorth>not a big thing :P
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/4030.jpg <-- street-running trains literally must go at "walking speed" (guy in front is the "train leader", who secures the line)
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17:49<@Terkhen>good night
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18:07*SmatZ adds sugar to dihedral
18:08<dihedral>thanks ^^
18:08<dihedral>that is ... sweet of you :-D
18:12<@SmatZ>:D
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19:40<Wolf01>'night
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20:00<pikka>blehh moin
20:01<pikka>another day another potato
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23:15<g3d>hi, I'm trying to debug problems with saving preferences. I'm on Linux. No preferences are saved when I exit openttd. I see in strace that it opens /usr/share/openttd/openttd.cfg, does it mean it will use it for saving prefs as well? How can I force it to use my home directory?
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23:40<+glx>g3d: the search order for openttd.cfg is explained in readme.txt
23:40<+glx>but just touch .openttd/openttd.cfg and it should be ok
23:43<+glx>well ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg :)
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 19 00:00:30 2011