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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-22

---Logopened Fri Apr 22 00:00:23 2011
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02:28<andythenorth>time for some game-making
02:51<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:14<@planetmaker>hell Hyronymus
03:15<@planetmaker>what a rare guest :-)
03:16<andythenorth>anyone fancy patching me a development tool?
03:17<andythenorth>'when funding industries, cycle layout number, starting at 1, increase by 1 for each instance built'
03:18<andythenorth>instead of random :P
03:18<@planetmaker>that's not patching but writing in the first place
03:18<@planetmaker>or you modify the game, too which is in this instance IMHO not desireable
03:19<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I think that would get confusing if the game was not able to build one or more of the layouts
03:20<andythenorth>Terkhen: maybe
03:21<andythenorth>although you just revealed another use for this ;)
03:21<andythenorth>testing layout stuff is a PITA
03:21<@Terkhen>what does PITA means?
03:21<@planetmaker>pain in the ass
03:21<@Terkhen>oh :P
03:22<andythenorth>how do I prove that a specific layout number is not allowed to be built
03:22<andythenorth>e.g. if it's date dependent
03:22<@Terkhen>I could change that old log industry opening and closure patch to show the built layout in the log too
03:23<andythenorth>I never figured out how to use that :o
03:23<andythenorth>I should
03:23<@Terkhen>the patch still applies, I am using it to test opengfx industries
03:24<@Terkhen>let me see if I can add layout information to it
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03:27<andythenorth>Terkhen: in case I waste your time - the actual use case here is testing an industry with n layouts
03:28<andythenorth>to see which ones are broken graphically
03:28<andythenorth>which means a lot of industry funding ;)
03:28<andythenorth>I guess I just have to click many times
03:29<@Alberth>is there a solution you have in mind?
03:30<@planetmaker>Alberth: a solution would be an extensio to the "fund industry window" which allows selection of a layout by number
03:30<@Terkhen>hmmm... I see, my patch would only help to test which ones never appear in normal generation
03:30<andythenorth>Alberth: a hack would be to select the layout number from a cacheed, incrementing var
03:30<andythenorth>instead of at random
03:31<@planetmaker>or a adv. setting which is active with newgrf dev tools only: build_layout_number
03:31<@planetmaker>accessible via console
03:31<andythenorth>I did also wonder about a different patch - for players
03:31<andythenorth>planetmaker: console command would be v. good
03:31<@Alberth>planetmaker: yeah, like the newobjects :)
03:31<@planetmaker>yes, like views would be awesome
03:32*Alberth is missing hgtk from fredora15
03:32<@planetmaker>that way it also could be exposed to the player
03:32<andythenorth>I was thinking of something else earlier
03:32<@Alberth>anybody with 'hgtk' at your system? can you tell me what package it is in?
03:33<@planetmaker>hm, I just improved OpenGFX while trying to extend OpenGFX+Industries :-)
03:33<andythenorth>for random, if we patched so the layout number was selected when player clicks 'fund' window.....then we could a further patch to show tile layout on map
03:34<@Alberth>planetmaker: wrong directory? :)
03:34<@planetmaker>andythenorth: how is it called: the tower of a mine which cables run through in order to lift up the material?
03:34<@planetmaker>Alberth: not really :-) I just wondered about (missing) animation. And a few pixels changed fixed it nicely
03:35<@planetmaker>like: start A. notice B. notice C, notice D, fix D
03:36<andythenorth>planetmaker: depends exactly what you
03:36<andythenorth>winding gear
03:36<@planetmaker>look at the gold mine
03:37<@planetmaker>the building there
03:37<@planetmaker>looks like, yes
03:38<andythenorth>headstocks probably
03:38<andythenorth>the igg site I linked is very good on uk terminology for industries
03:39<@planetmaker>"Förderturm" in German
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03:48<andythenorth>it's a nice day in the UK
03:48<andythenorth>one of the things I like about India - no guilt about wasting a sunny day inside coding :P
03:48<@planetmaker>andythenorth: wrt snowyness and breaking compatibility: I really don't see how adding another varaction2 which has the sprites depend on terrain_type to break any compatibility
03:48<@planetmaker>you'll only break that, if you change the layout - something I don't see the necessity when adding snow
03:49<@planetmaker>nor actually the possibility really
03:52<andythenorth>planetmaker: it comes down to an argument about 'broken'
03:52<andythenorth>are garbled graphics 'broken' ?
03:52<@planetmaker>that's nothing to do with snow then
03:53<@planetmaker>either it's broken with and without. Or you could all snow
03:53<andythenorth>not quite
03:53<@planetmaker>please explain
03:53<andythenorth>the issue *is* conflated currently with the ground greeble I'm adding
03:54<andythenorth>but that could be ignored for explanation
03:54<andythenorth>so many industries have TILE_CONCRETE or TILE_COBBLE or similar in layout
03:54<andythenorth>meanwhile some industries are currently sliced in such a way that snow can't be added to ground around industry
03:54<@planetmaker>yes. And you could - in theory - just add to them a snowy version and be done
03:55<@planetmaker>don't confuse tile layout with industry layout
03:55<andythenorth>I don't ;)
03:55<andythenorth>I have to reslice the industry to be able to provide snow on the ground
03:56<andythenorth>some of the reslicing means the TILE_CONCRETE etc has to become TILE_MY_INDUSTRY
03:56<andythenorth>which leaves older layouts garbled wrt graphics
03:57<andythenorth>not broken technically, but to player it looks so
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03:57*andythenorth looks for an example
03:57<@planetmaker>[09:56] andythenorth some of the reslicing means the TILE_CONCRETE etc has to become TILE_MY_INDUSTRY <-- I guess I don't see where snow would require this
04:01<@Alberth>is there some industry I can test my hack with, or do you want to do that?
04:04<andythenorth>Alberth: FIRS dairy is as good as any other industry to
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04:06<@Alberth>6 bio refineries and 1 bauxite mine?
04:09<andythenorth>Alberth: 4 biorefinery layouts ;)
04:09<andythenorth>1 bauxite mine
04:11<andythenorth>planetmaker: wrt snow tiles, maybe I got unlucky picking the dairy first
04:11<andythenorth>other industries look to be sliced ok
04:11<andythenorth>savegame bump for one industry is annoying
04:11<andythenorth>although the issue remains conflated with adding detail to ground tiles
04:11<andythenorth>which I might as well do, and might also need layout changes
04:16<@Alberth>bummer, the game outsmarted me :)
04:17<andythenorth>Alberth: patch seems to build layouts 2, 4 and 6 in a reliable order
04:17<@Alberth>yeah, I increment the layout number also when testing a build
04:17<@Alberth>updated the patch, it works now
04:18<@Alberth>as bonus, it now also prints the layout it selects :)
04:18<andythenorth>you know the newgrf debug shows layout number?
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04:19<@planetmaker>hm, indeed :-)
04:19<@Alberth>I don't think I ever opened one of those windows :)
04:20<@Alberth>I leave that to lickable pixel creators :)
04:21<andythenorth>Alberth: it now builds with layout ++ each time
04:21<andythenorth>except it won't build layout 1
04:21<andythenorth>I get layout 2 twice ;)
04:22<@Alberth>most likely layout 1 is not buildable there, then
04:22<andythenorth>this needs a flat map for testing
04:22<@Alberth>I used the SE :)
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04:24<andythenorth>adding this to trunk - too big a pony?
04:24<andythenorth>(with console command for enable / disable...)
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04:24<@Alberth>too hacky imho
04:25<@Alberth>extending the fund-industry window seems to me a more feasible direction in that case
04:26<andythenorth>would that need to show each layout graphically?
04:26<@Alberth>I think so
04:26<andythenorth>might have some usability issues :D
04:27<andythenorth>unless it just shows one layout at a time
04:27<andythenorth>with < > to cycle
04:27<@Alberth>I was thinking along the lines of the newobjects window
04:28<@Alberth>(and another one, that I seem to have lost from memory atm)
04:28<@Alberth>yes indeed, thanks
04:28*andythenorth waves hand in direction of industry size ;)
04:28<andythenorth>stations / objects show 1 tile
04:28<andythenorth>industry layouts might be 8x8 easily
04:29<@planetmaker>objects may be larger than 1x1, too
04:29<@planetmaker>as are stations
04:29<@planetmaker>so the same thing applies
04:29<@planetmaker>purchase list sprites ;-)
04:29<@Alberth> ?
04:29<andythenorth>airports is closer
04:30<andythenorth>one option
04:30<@Alberth>I wrote that patch too, but it is silly atm, as we have exactly one layout for them
04:30<andythenorth>I don't like scaling much...for reasons that won't survive an argument :(
04:31<@Alberth>I can understand that feeling
04:31<@Alberth>but then we need custom sprites for 'big' things
04:31<andythenorth>original game never scaled anything (apart from zoom out on main map)
04:31<andythenorth>we don't scale planes or ships in buy menu
04:31<andythenorth>some authors tried, but it sucks
04:32<@Alberth>the problem I experienced with airports is that bigger airport do not look bigger
04:32<@Alberth>perhaps the + and - scaling should be part of the window
04:32<andythenorth>cycling them with < > is fine imo
04:32<@planetmaker>hehe... NoCAB uses the turbo train to haul coal :-P
04:33<andythenorth>I would rather see things at 1:1
04:33<@planetmaker>preview in 1:1 is not really feasible with things bigger than 1 tile
04:34<@planetmaker>unless you re-write how such previews work. But then for stations in the first place
04:34*Ammler doesn't like the different scaling of the airports either
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04:37<andythenorth>some airports are previewed 1:1
04:37<andythenorth>some aren't
04:37<andythenorth>it's not awful
04:37<andythenorth>but it's not awesome either
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04:38<Ammler>alternative would be that the bigger airports would show only a part of it
04:38<andythenorth>it's a tricky problem :)
04:39<andythenorth>I would show all of it
04:39<andythenorth>at 1:1
04:39<andythenorth>but that's because my screen is big enough :)
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04:55<@planetmaker>Hyronymus: <-- that person seems like it wants a quick ban
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04:57<Hyronymus>thaanks for the repoty
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04:57<Hyronymus>if I now learn NOT to click on links in chatzilla
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04:59<@planetmaker>hu? why that?
05:01<@peter1138>Crazy that people still have chatzilla...
05:03<Hyronymus>what's the alternative, peter1138
05:03<@planetmaker>xchat or ychat possibly
05:04<@peter1138>oh, seems that it's a firefox plugin these days too
05:04<@peter1138>it used to only be part of the behemoth of the netscape suite
05:05<Hyronymus>nah, I even got it to run in a Firefox tab
05:05<Hyronymus>offciially not supported but it works
05:05<@planetmaker>Hyronymus: but... what's wrong with clicking on links? Works like a charm here
05:05<Hyronymus>not if you have it running in a tab
05:06<Hyronymus>then it replaces the chatzilla tab with the page linked to
05:06<@planetmaker>that's annoying then ;-)
05:06<@peter1138>i never did understand the reasoning that decided a webbrowser should have an irc client
05:07<Hyronymus>I used to have mIRC when it was abandonware
05:07<@planetmaker>why should a text editor have a "psychologist", mail reader, ...?
05:07<@Alberth>I lost understanding when they decided they needed a programming language for reading text
05:10<@peter1138>1) "abandonware" doesn't exist
05:10<@peter1138>2) mirc could wasn't ever such
05:11<@peter1138>-could :p
05:30<yorick>Hyronymus: even if you use the middle mouse button?
05:32<Hyronymus>have to try
05:32<Hyronymus>hah, that works yorick
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05:43<ZirconiumX>hello all
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05:43<ZirconiumX>hello Hyronymus
05:44<ZirconiumX>or some other unspellable word
05:47*ZirconiumX wonders where the world would be without vi/m
05:49<ZirconiumX>probably ok without it
05:51<ZirconiumX>can you do 'for' loops in squirrel
05:51*ZirconiumX goes ferreting
05:54<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: some children in Uganda would be disappointed without vim
05:56<@Terkhen>oh, new gcc :)
05:56<ZirconiumX>vi is rather old - I know some neolithic man who find it basic :p
05:57<ZirconiumX>Alberth: Ah good point
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06:27*dihedral loves vim :-)
06:29*Sacro does too
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06:48<dihedral>uh - hey Sacro
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07:04<flitz>hi openttd
07:06<flitz>ah the gui-guru, perfect :)
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07:06<flitz>I had a neat idea but I came around to think that it doesn't work:
07:07<flitz>when defining two widgets within a NWID_SELECTION, can those two have different height ? so that when I switch the displayed plane the gui is automatically resized according to the plane being used
07:09<flitz>for example: I have two panels within the selection, one is supposed to be 100 in height, the other one only 10. But the gui is never able to resize according to the smaller panel it will always use the minimal height of the larger one
07:10<@planetmaker>it would be not really nice to have the window re-size just because you chose one option
07:11<@planetmaker>actually I'd consider it out-right annoying
07:11<@Alberth>flitz: no, but you can specify a size change in ResizeWindow()
07:11<@Alberth>planetmaker: but we do it all the time in the picker windows, financial window, group gui
07:13<@planetmaker>but well, yes, you're right
07:13<@planetmaker>I guess it depends :-)
07:13<flitz>I think I will just use an external window than instead of integrating the two things into one gui
07:14<@Alberth>flitz: NWID_SELECTION is like the tabbed pages in a tab-book, ie display one of N pages
07:14<@planetmaker>I just thought of uses where it'd be annoying like a game configuration
07:14<flitz>the idea was to have a vehicle list displayed in a matrix and on button clicking turning that matrix into a single panel for creating a new vehicle
07:15<@Alberth>planetmaker: picker = select a station or airport where the captured cargoes are displayed at the bottom
07:15<@Alberth>flitz: what makes you think I am not interested in the matrix while making a new vehicles?
07:16<@Alberth>Two windows are likely much better :)
07:16<flitz>I thought it not really necessary to view the matrix while creating a new one, but maybe you're right
07:17<@planetmaker>ah, that window :-)
07:17<flitz>btw: with the station window I've found an instance of a gui that does exactly what I was trying to do, hm...
07:18<@planetmaker>flitz: the build train window w/o the depot matrix would miss quite some visual feedback
07:18<@Alberth>it uses ResizeWindow() :)
07:19<flitz>just out of curiosity: ResizeWindow() would be applied to a window, that is the whole gui not a single widget, right ?
07:19<flitz>planetmaker: idea is scrapped already ;)
07:20<@Alberth>flitz: of course
07:22<flitz>why doesn't it resize the other parts of the window ? e.g. in a station window if you click on ratings and the top panel stays the same size
07:23<@Alberth>careful calculation of the new size, normally
07:24<@Alberth>oh, station window is more blunt, it does this->ReInit();
07:25<@Alberth>ie 're-compute sizes and positions of the whole widget tree'
07:27<@Alberth>station_gui.cpp, line 1188
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07:30<flitz>found it
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09:34<TrueBrain> <- new version just released :D (just had to do that :p)
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09:41<@planetmaker>SmatZ: so if I understand that patch correctly, the idea is to create "virtual" ground sprites depending upon the (snow) density?
09:42<Zuu>planetmaker: Nice to see that you as a side effect of testing NewGRFs also test AIs and provide feedback on them. :-)
09:43<@planetmaker>makes it easier :-)
09:43<@planetmaker>it's kinda like the "play me" button :-P
09:44<Zuu>Yes - it's hard to play as quickly yourself as loading an AI and press fast forward. :-)
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09:44<@planetmaker>and I'm really impressed by NoCAB... it's continuously performing well. One AI? 10 AI :-P
09:44<@SmatZ>planetmaker: the "blitter / virtual" part is needed to extract sprites from current sprites
09:45<@SmatZ>because openttd doesn't have overlay sprite that should be applied to "snowy ground" tile
09:45<@SmatZ>so I need to generate it
09:45<@planetmaker>couldn't they be added to openttd.grf instead?
09:45<@SmatZ>I generated it as a difference from "track on snow" and "snow"
09:45<@SmatZ>they could be, yes
09:45<Zuu>Yes NoCAB is really good.
09:45<@planetmaker>so... kinda making the default railtypes full railtypes in that same sweep
09:45<@SmatZ>but then all current track newgrfs would need to add them too
09:45<@planetmaker>ah. good point
09:45<@SmatZ>or they would be missing "track on half-snow / half-desert" tracks
09:46<@SmatZ>(it's rather 0/3, 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 snow, 0/2,1/2, 2/2 desert)
09:46<@planetmaker>Zuu: and it is now also fun to watch that several AIs build real train networks, and make use of more than just one transportation type
09:47<@planetmaker>yep, I see
09:47<Zuu>When I have aircraft disabled, Clueless is usually getting along well with NoCab, Otvi etc. utill the vehicle limit is reached. At the end NoCAB and AIs with a large diversity of vehicle types usually wins.
09:47<@planetmaker>I just wondered, SmatZ, about "why not provide those sprites" ;-)
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09:47<Zuu>planetmaker: Is that a feature request ;-)
09:47<@planetmaker>Zuu: certainly ;-)
09:47<Zuu>You should then note that CluelessPlus contains a fairly empty rail.nut file :-)
09:48<@planetmaker>Zuu: actually there have been thoughts about shipping maybe one AI with the next major release...
09:48<@planetmaker>... but that would require a) a competition and b) a sound testing of the one being shipped. Possibly a) and b) combined
09:49<@planetmaker>and it would require test rules and requirements. Maybe you have ideas about either :-)
09:49<Zuu>Though, at the moment I don't forsee rail/air in CluelessPlus in a reasonable time.
09:49<@planetmaker>a pity
09:50<Zuu>I have though about making it reuse its stations more and improve the station building.
09:50<@planetmaker>I think cluelessPlus is doing well, but indeed meanwhile can't catch up anymore as it can't use rail
09:50<@planetmaker>trains are just very profitable
09:50<@planetmaker>I checked earlier a single train of NoCAB. 250k income per run
09:51<@planetmaker>(it was a moderate to long distant coal train with 4 cars)
09:51<@planetmaker>also, what NoCAB does well is the startup part. It's quick. Quicker than most AIs. That also gives it a head start
09:52<Zuu>At some point there might be air/train, but it will have to be integrated with the rest of the AI.
09:53<Zuu>An idea that I might explore is to make it re-organize its connections in later years. (still only road to start with)
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09:54<Zuu>A bit similar to the pair optimizer in PaxLink, just that it has to also make sure it works with the infrastructure.
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10:12<mib_lg8q0r>anyone here from germany?
10:13<@Alberth>some are, yes, but this is an english channel
10:13<@Alberth>anybody any experience with hgsvn ?
10:13<mib_lg8q0r>exists there a german channel too?
10:16<@Alberth>never heard of one
10:18<flitz>never heard of hgsvn, actually
10:19<@planetmaker>Ammler: might know about hgsvn, Alberth
10:21<Eddi|zuHause> <-- suggestion for alcohol transport wagon :p
10:22<@Alberth>nice one Eddi|zuHause :)
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10:29<mib_lg8q0r>hallo Eddi|zuHause
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11:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r22357 /trunk/src/network/ (network_chat_gui.cpp network_gui.cpp): -Fix (r22345): crash when opening the chat box or company password input box
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11:14<Ammler>Alberth: use hgsubversion
11:15<@Alberth>Thanks Ammler, I found that too, it seems to work better :)
11:15<Ammler>hgsvn is quite depreciated, isn't?
11:16<Ammler> should use hgsubversion :-)
11:19<andythenorth_>Alberth: that layout patch is very useful thanks
11:19<andythenorth_>although I'll probably lose it :(
11:19<andythenorth_>I should maintain a patch queue, but I'm not disciplined enough
11:20<Ammler>you need discipline for mq?
11:20<@Alberth>Ammler: they switched to 'Only (really) critical bugs will be fixed for now, please consider hgsubversion instead'
11:21<andythenorth_>Ammler: it's one more thing to remember to do :(
11:22<@Alberth>for now, I will keep the patch around :)
11:23<Ammler>mq has more than just a bit patch management, but you also should learn to use rebase :-)
11:24<Ammler>it would make it much easier for you
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11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22358 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: WC_TOOLBAR_MENU isn't the right name when its only used for client list popups
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11:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22359 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: pass client info pointers instead of the position to the client popup list's callbacks
11:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22360 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use globally unique client id to mark the selected client instead of the position in the client list
11:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22361 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: delete the client list popup when the client got removed (instead of previously selecting some other client)
11:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22362 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: NetworkFindClientInfoFromClientID -> NetworkClientInfo::GetByClientID
11:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22363 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files): -Codechange: NetworkFindClientStateFromClientID -> NetworkClientSocket::GetByClientID
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11:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22364 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Codechange: don't show the (unknown) client address in the client list at clients
11:58<@planetmaker> <-- hm, any idea what is going wrong there? The only patch applied is which does nothing but rename an enum and two functions. So obviously I miss something... but what?
11:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22365 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add overload of NetworkServerKickOrBanIP using the ClientID, which later resolves the IP address to ban. This to consolidate the knowledge about resolving IP addresses
11:59*ZirconiumX sympathises with planetmaker
12:00<ZirconiumX>gcc is like that sometimes
12:00<@planetmaker>hm... nvm me asking. I think I see it
12:01<Rubidium>you ought to use grep ;)
12:01<Rubidium>and sed or awk ;)
12:01<@planetmaker>good that we talked about it :-)
12:01<@planetmaker>Rubidium: but only, if I know what to look for
12:01<@planetmaker>but the first line was... quite funky :-P
12:01*ZirconiumX still doesn't know why people do | grep -v grep
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22366 /trunk/src/network/ (network_func.h network_server.cpp network_server.h): -Codechange: make GetClientIP a function of the server's ClientSocket, after all the Socket is the bit that's associated with the network
12:02<@planetmaker>and I missed the first hunk in that file
12:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22367 /trunk/src/network/ (network_admin.cpp network_admin.h network_server.cpp): -Codechange: send ClientSockets instead of ClientInfos to the admin "core" as they send IP addresses to the admin "bots"
12:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22368 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files): -Codechange: move the IP address field from the ClientInfo to ClientSocket
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22369 /trunk/src/network/ (network_admin.cpp network_server.cpp):
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: allocate ClientInfo when needed, i.e. don't allocate it for clients
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: that are there to just get a list of companies. This means that these short
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lived clients won't be seen by the admin network in their client queries anymore
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12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22370 /trunk/src/network/ (core/tcp_game.h network_server.cpp):
12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange/fix: keep better accounting of the order in which clients joined:
12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: * Clients can't be starved from joining the game
12:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: * Clients will see the amount of clients actually waiting in front of them, instead of the amount of waiting clients in total
12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22371 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp:
12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4596]: make sure saving has completely and utterly finished before
12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: starting a new one. Otherwise you could start a save, which would be marked as
12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: done by the previous save stopping and then yet another save could be started...
12:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: and that could create a deadlock
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12:21<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: grep -v grep is for omitting the 'grep' command itself, eg in ps aux | grep bash
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12:30<@SmatZ>wtf @ people voluntarily being crucified
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>some extremely religious people really are crazy...
12:32<@Alberth>some are willing to kill themselves :p
12:34<ZirconiumX>Islam: I have nothing against it, but would 'God' want you to get a bomb and blow yourself up, and kill other, innocent people
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>ZirconiumX: how do you come from "crucifying" to "islam"?
12:35<ZirconiumX>Alberth comment
12:36<ZirconiumX>*Alberth's comment
12:36<@Yexo>ZirconiumX: 1) it's not only the islam, and 2) it's not all Muslims
12:36<@SmatZ>there are many ways to explain various holy books, including that way
12:36<ZirconiumX>I didn't say it was all muslims
12:36*andythenorth_ will bbl
12:36<andythenorth_>better things to do ;)
12:36<@Yexo>ZirconiumX: but you implied it, which is bad
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>change of topic:
12:37<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: don't think that chrstians are much better, it just happened earlier:
12:37<ZirconiumX>I am not a religious person: I'm an atheist
12:37<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: looks very fast :p
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>(LBE doubledecker train in 1936)
12:37<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: nice :) would be nice if it didn't make that much smoke though :)
12:38<@SmatZ>*even nicer
12:38<@Yexo>that is no argument
12:38<@Alberth>I prefer the alcohol wagon though :)
12:38*Yexo looks if there are any interesting issues on fs
12:39<@SmatZ>Yexo: FS#4592, unless Rubidium is working on it :)
12:39<@Yexo>ah, that one :)
12:39*Rubidium isn't
12:39*Yexo takes FS#4592 ;)
12:42<ZirconiumX>the nuances of UN*X
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: wikipedia says the track Hamburg-Lübeck, where these trains were running, was equipped for 120km/h, so the train should have a similar speed
12:44<ZirconiumX>the "four point twoeth Berkeley Software Distribution" and "System V release four point two"
12:44*ZirconiumX sighs
12:45<@Alberth>ZirconiumX: what's the probem, unix is just a collection of agreed interfaces, there are several implementations around
12:45<ZirconiumX>just 4.2BSD is easy to write - but not easy to say
12:46<@Alberth>who speak any more if you can do everything by internet :p
12:48*planetmaker wonders if ZirconiumX has a random comment function implemented and set to loop
12:48*ZirconiumX speaks more random gibberish
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>PS: another specialty of these trains was the push-pull service.
12:53<@Yexo>is FS#4592 reproducible on a single system or do I need to get a second computer?
12:55<@SmatZ>Yexo: one computer, two openttd windows
12:55<@Yexo>SmatZ: and how to keep the list open and close down a company?
12:55<@Yexo>with reset_company / stop_ai it's easy to remove a company
12:56<Chris_Booth>don't load AI
12:56<@Yexo>but if I do that in one window I can't keep the dropdown list open in the other one
12:56<@SmatZ>Yexo: when I alt+tab out of the window while the list of companies is shown, it will crash
12:56*ZirconiumX is confused / gets smacked in face
12:56<@Yexo>hmm, let's try
12:56<@SmatZ>eg. press the "vehicles" button, hold LMB, alt+tab to server
12:57<@Yexo>so for that you don't need to stop a company or somethign like that?
12:57<@SmatZ>you have to "reset_company 1"
12:57<@SmatZ>or something like that
12:58<Chris_Booth>isn't the chat bug on FS?
12:58<@SmatZ>it doesn't crash always
12:58<@SmatZ>Chris_Booth: it's fixed
12:58<@Yexo>alt-tab doesn't work while I hold LMB
13:00<@Yexo>console still reacts to keyboard while I hold the mouse, so "stop_ai" in the console works
13:00<@Yexo>I can see the entry becoming empty, but I can't reproduce a crash
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13:01<@SmatZ>indeed, I can't crash it anymore as well
13:01<@SmatZ>and valgrind seems to be happy too
13:01<@Yexo>the stacktrace on FS shows ShowVehicleListWindowLocal, but there is a check for an invalid company in that function
13:01<Chris_Booth>ooh did anything ever happen on company colours?
13:01<@Yexo>afaik not
13:02<Chris_Booth>close the task then?
13:02<Chris_Booth>still opened
13:03<@SmatZ>Chris_Booth: what task?
13:03<Chris_Booth>the FS task I submited
13:03<Chris_Booth>shame just a line that has a heavier wieght would help
13:04<@Yexo>what about the idea of adding the company icon in front of the text in the chat?
13:05<Chris_Booth>that would also help Companyx(player)
13:05<@Yexo><Chris_Booth> yes <- so, good idea? if so, the task shouldn't be closed
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13:05<Chris_Booth>shall I add that to comments then?
13:05<@SmatZ> reproduced the crash now
13:06<@SmatZ>oh in the 1.0 branch
13:06<Chris_Booth>ooh <company name><player name> has already been added in comments
13:06<@Yexo>SmatZ: looks like a release build
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13:12<@SmatZ>Yexo: seems to be somehow reproducible
13:12<@SmatZ>start dedicated server
13:12<@SmatZ>join with client
13:12<@SmatZ>start 3 companies
13:13<@SmatZ>open the list, alt+tab
13:13<@SmatZ>reset_company 1
13:13<@SmatZ>alt+tab back, click first company
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13:14<@SmatZ> bt
13:14<@SmatZ>Yexo: seems it doesn't crash when the client is a spectator
13:15<@Yexo>which list do you open?
13:15<@Yexo>one of the vehicle lists or the company list?
13:15<@SmatZ>vehicle list
13:15<@SmatZ>road vehs
13:16<@SmatZ>Yexo: seems to be affected by that "show full / small vehicle lists setting"
13:17<@SmatZ>adv settings -> interface -> show advanced veh lists -> own company
13:17<@SmatZ>is my setting
13:17<@Yexo>I had it on all companies
13:17<@Yexo>and reproduced :)
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14:43<singpolyma>I'm trying to find a download for version 1.0.4 (or one that is lanplay compatible with it) for OSX
14:43<andythenorth>singpolyma: I might be wrong, but I don't think there is an easy OS X download for that version
14:44<andythenorth>have you searched tt forums?
14:44<@Terkhen>that's quite old, and there were no official binaries of OS X for 1.0.x
14:44<andythenorth>some people were posting binaries they'd compiled
14:44<singpolyma>oh, I see.
14:44<andythenorth>OS X support was recently restored ;)
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14:44<singpolyma>Well, I could alternately upgrade all my Ubuntu systems, but trying to install the deb from the website gives an error because there is no openttd-data for the new version
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>singpolyma: all your lan friends should update to 1.1.0
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>singpolyma: uninstall the versions from ubuntu-repo before installing the deb from the website
14:46<singpolyma>Eddi|zuHause: :( ok, I'll try that. Pretty suboptimal
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>singpolyma: complain to your package maintainer
14:47<andythenorth>singpolyma: would you be confident compiling your own?
14:47<andythenorth>for OS X
14:47<singpolyma>well, why are the packages on from the website not compatible with the ones in distro?
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14:48<Eddi|zuHause>singpolyma: how should we know? our packages were there first, your distro decided to make things difficult
14:48<singpolyma>andythenorth: Sure, I could compile my own, but that's an even worse solution. uninstalling and reinstalling on ubuntu seems to be working
14:48*andythenorth can't help with ubuntu
14:48<Vinnie_nl>hello, are there any developers around?
14:49*andythenorth ponders
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14:50<singpolyma>There seems to be both Replaces and Conflicts for openttd-data from the official packages. I think if it were just replaces that would probably work
14:50<singpolyma>working now
14:50*andythenorth starts on another big FIRS redraw :P
14:50<andythenorth>singpolyma: good news ;)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>why does NekoMaster always strike me as the "has absolutely no clue" type?
14:52<singpolyma>oh, Ihad to install openttd-opengfx manually again. now it's working :)
14:52<Vinnie_nl>My game crashed on joining the openttdcoop server with r22355. Is this already a known issue?
14:52<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause he strikes me more as 'drinks, smokes weed, sometimes makes sense, sometimes makes no sense' type of guy
14:52<Vinnie_nl>mac osx btw
14:52<@peter1138>is it cos he has no clue?
14:52<@Terkhen>Vinnie_nl: no way to tell with just that info
14:52<andythenorth>sometimes someone seems to have hit neko with a clue stick
14:52<andythenorth>he's made some good suggestions
14:52<andythenorth>other times...
14:53<Vinnie_nl>Terkhen: thank you
14:53<andythenorth>even a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day?
14:53<@Terkhen>check the required files when posting a new task
14:53<@Terkhen>those files are the information we need, attach them to the new task
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>"Amazon denies cloud-outage has to do with Skynet attack" :p
14:54<andythenorth>some people don't like TTD paper mill. But it's actually quite nicely drawn
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>(apparently, in the terminator TV series it was said skynet turns on mankind on the 21st april 2011)
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14:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think it doesn't really fit FIRS style, though
14:56<andythenorth>perhaps not
14:56<andythenorth>it's compressed in scale
14:56<andythenorth>and a bit silly
14:56<andythenorth>but the art is good
14:57<andythenorth>I'm looking at the shading to improve the FIRS textile mill
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>there are very few things in TTD where the art is "not good", but in comparison with some newgrfs, it pales occasionally
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14:59<Vinnie_nl>Terkhen: I got help from some other smart men.;a=commitdiff;h=a932afb7f1b820edff066688525a9c677bcbd702;hp=176ae869437b91d453b79fb416eeba5c81261ffe thank you for the time
14:59<@Terkhen>you are welcome
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15:28<@Alberth>Hirundo: <-- disallow assignment to parameters >= 64 ?
15:30<@Yexo>yes, that's a good idea
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15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22372 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix (r22364) [FS#4598]: segmentation fault when trying to get the server's IP
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16:03-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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16:48<dihedral>Rubidium, seems like you are on a commit-trip today ;-)
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16:58<andythenorth>making FIRS daylength patch compatible is upside down thinking yes / no?
16:58<andythenorth>daylength patches shouldn't be breaking industry code
16:58*andythenorth supposes
17:05<@Alberth>I agree too :)
17:06<dihedral>"daylength compatible" does that not depend on the implementation of the daylength?
17:08<@Alberth>not if you define a correct daylength patch as 'working with current industry newgrfs'
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17:13<KOPOBA>why russian fonts in ottd not bold? and is there any way to fix it?
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17:13*andythenorth bed time
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17:14<@Yexo>KOPOBA: the default sprite font doesn't have all glyphs for russian, so openttd will use a system font
17:14<@Yexo>you can change the font in openttd.cfg
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17:16<KOPOBA>Yexo there is no such file =\
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17:17<@Yexo>KOPOBA: see readme.txt for info on how to find it
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17:24<KOPOBA>Yexo graphicsset = "original_windows" can you advise what to set here?
17:25<@Yexo>you can modify that in-game
17:25<@Yexo>if you don't have the original graphics, leave the empty (graphicsset =) and openttd will chose an available one for you
17:26<KOPOBA>Yexo this will make russian letters bold? =)
17:26<KOPOBA>what i must change in cfg?
17:26<KOPOBA>to make them bold?
17:27<@Yexo>small_font / medium_font / large_font
17:27<KOPOBA>its empty
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17:28<@Yexo>yes, that means openttd will pick the sprite font if possible, otherwise it'll just pick a random available font on your system
17:29<Chris_Booth>read the for more information
17:29<Chris_Booth>Yexo you are very patient. saying the same thing 3 or 4 different ways
17:30<@Yexo>depending on my mood, yes ;)
17:35<__ln__>oh, a new english word learned i have:
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>... wasn't there a font picker window patch?
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17:35<@Yexo>yes, but it's only a patch
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>so what's missing?
17:36<@Terkhen>there was a more recent attempt a few months ago
17:36<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: that patch is against r11643
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>ah, so it's not window-class-and-whatnot-ified
17:37<@Alberth>before having bigger fonts was useful :)
17:37<@Yexo>you could still have different fonts
17:37<@Yexo>not everyone wants them bigger
17:38<@Alberth>fair enough :)
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17:39<Eddi|zuHause>he doesn't take being corrected very well :p
17:42<@Terkhen>it would be nice to have that feature; editing cfg files it not very intuitive
17:43<@Yexo>it's too bad that person in that topic you linked to just left and never finished his patch
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>these americans have crazily long trains:
17:44<Chris_Booth>you need some kind person to take the patch up again
17:44*planetmaker needs sleep and wishes a good night
17:44<Chris_Booth>fuck me how can that train even move
17:44<@Terkhen>Chris_Booth: are you that person? :P
17:44<@Terkhen>good night planetmaker
17:44<Chris_Booth>night night pm
17:44<Chris_Booth>Terkhen me no
17:44<Chris_Booth>not a chance
17:45<Chris_Booth>openttd is to complex for me
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's totally missing some really complex features...
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>like, shunting
17:47<KOPOBA>Yexo thanks =)
17:48<Chris_Booth>none majic depots
17:48<Chris_Booth>openttd depots are a major hate of mine
17:50<@Terkhen>good night
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17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r22373 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r19955) (r20041) [FS#4592]: crash when clicking a removed company in the vehiclelist dropdowns
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20:23<Eddi|zuHause> <-- why do they have to put the car into a train, in order to put the train on a ship?
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>(this is the provisory ferry line Großenbrode-Gedser, after the traditional ferry line Warnemünde-Gedser ended up on the other side of the iron curtain, and before the proper "bird flight" ferry route Putgarden-Rodby opened (needed the "Fehmarnsund" bridge)
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22:07<gartral>is there anyway too have trains automatically ignore signals if there's a gridlock? preferably safely?
22:15<+glx>no because it's never safe
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22:16<gartral> glx that's not true, there's always a safe re-route. i've had many a deadlock and only crashed trains when i hit one other than what i was planning..
22:24<Eddi|zuHause>use path signals
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22:39<gartral>I also have a massive bug too point out: i have a subsidy between two towns, built the station and railcar connections at one town, rails through the other, but the second town isn't allowing me too build the station i need too make the connection.. what gives?
22:40<ccfreak2k>Or escape depots in frequently locked areas.
22:41<gartral>what can i do in this situation?
22:42<gartral>I can post my savegame if anyone wants too look... though my systems are particularly ugly
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22:45<sjr>Hmmmmm I copied the sound files from windows, the is there, in the config options it's listed but grayed out
22:49<gartral>this is stupid, i can't demolish anything i've built in this town, and i can't complete building for the subsidy... what gives
22:54<gartral>sjr: you aren't going from 32bit<->64bit
22:54<gartral>are you?
22:55<sjr>hmm no
22:55<sjr>but I just got the dos files and it worked
22:55<sjr>I was running on 64-bit now
22:55<sjr>probably for the first time actually
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22:59<gartral>and just lost that subsidy because the town is a jerkwad..
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 23 00:00:41 2011