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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-23

---Logopened Sat Apr 23 00:00:41 2011
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00:42<Figgy_>damn you pikka
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01:16<sjr>When I fund an industry to prospected is there any reason why nothing would ever show up?
01:18<Pikka>prospecting doesn't have a 100% chance of finding anything
01:18<sjr>ah
01:19<Pikka>for newgrf industries the probability of success is adjustable, I have no idea what it is for default industries
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02:25<Pikka>it's andythenorth!
02:25<andythenorth>it's Pikka !
02:26<Pikka>it is!
02:26<andythenorth>salut
02:26<Pikka>bongiorno
02:26<andythenorth>what if it's fake pikka?
02:26<andythenorth>how would I know?
02:26<Pikka>you have to bite it and see if it leaves a mark
02:27*Pikka works on starliner sprites
02:27<@planetmaker>Wer Pikka nachmacht oder verfälscht oder nachgemacht oder gefälschte Pikka in den Umlauf bringt wird nicht mit Freiheitsstrafe unter 5 Jahren bestraft
02:27<@planetmaker>moin :-)
02:27<Pikka>and then, a helicopterr of some description!
02:27<Pikka>guten tag herr planetmaker
02:27<@planetmaker>(sorry, I can't translate legaleze properly ;-) - it's the text written on bank notes)
02:28<andythenorth>"upon presentation, please pay bearer sum of ten pikkas" ?
02:28<@planetmaker>in essence: those who distribute fraudulent pikkas will be sentenced to 5 years jail or more
02:30<Pikka>woo
02:37<Pikka>andy: is there some table of all ships in / planned for feesh?
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02:40<heffer_>can anyone tell me what's going on here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=698959 ?
02:41<@Terkhen>good morning
02:42<heffer_>good morning :)
02:42<Pikka>good morning!
02:45<andythenorth>Pikka: feesh set design...evolves
02:45<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
02:45<@planetmaker>and moin heffer
02:45<heffer_>moin :)
02:46*Pikka looks forward to proper intro date, cost and speed stats ;)
02:46<@planetmaker>Pikka: in what way?
02:46<Pikka>in a FISHy way
02:46<@planetmaker>:-D
02:46<andythenorth>Pikka: cost + speed are correct
02:47<Pikka>hmm
02:47<andythenorth>intro date is made up for reasons of .... lack of drawings for early ships
02:47<Pikka>k :D I must admit I'm not necessarily up to date with the grf
02:50<V453000>Pikka: I have experienced a bug with UKRS2 ... the monster hopper wagons in tropic were loaded with some FIRS cargo ... stone and sand .... and there was a whie line under the wagons
02:50<V453000>white line
02:51-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
02:51-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
02:51<andythenorth>Pikka: ygm
02:51<andythenorth>(assumes you can open xls)
02:51<@Alberth>moin andy
02:51<andythenorth>hi Alberth
02:52<Pikka>V453000, yes, there's a lot of it about
02:52<andythenorth>current FISH costs vary from tracking table - I'm not sure why :(
02:52<V453000>Pikka: ok :)
02:52<andythenorth>dunno if it's a difficulty setting, or a mistake by me :(
02:52<Pikka>andy, I only ever think of costs as being in nfo units, I don't worry about what number that actually comes out as in game :P
02:55<@Alberth>maybe we should add 'NFO' as currency :)
02:55-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
02:56<heffer_>a little off topic question, as i know there are many dutch people here :) : i'm currently in the netherlands an i'm thinking about getting a prepaid sim card. which one should i get? which one has good deals in mobile internet?
02:56<@planetmaker>moin Alberth
02:56<Pikka>except the base units are different for everything, Alberth
02:56<Pikka>D: at introdates, andythenorth
02:57<Pikka>it's all 1870 or 1950 :o
02:57<Pikka>or later
02:57<andythenorth>yarp
02:58<andythenorth>that's for my own purposes
02:58<andythenorth>I need ships in my 1870 game :)
02:58<andythenorth>I don't care if they're 'wrong'
02:58<Pikka>heh :)
02:59<@planetmaker>andythenorth: debug parameter? If set, enable "early" availability?
02:59<Pikka>definitely needs more sail oil tankers though
03:00<andythenorth>planetmaker: possible
03:00<andythenorth>Pikka: sailing oil tankers?
03:00<@planetmaker>:-D
03:01<Pikka>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falls_of_Clyde_%28ship%29
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03:03<andythenorth>hokey dokey
03:03<andythenorth>Alberth: any more thoughts on industry layout (selector)
03:04<@Alberth>not by me
03:05*andythenorth does have earlier ships planned for FISH
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03:06<andythenorth>but is scared of drawing sails
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03:16<Pikka>ouch
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03:22<Pikka>Böing Böing
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03:37<Pikka>andy: I'll render some sailboats if you're willing to do all the retouching :D
03:41<gartral>I also have a massive bug too point out: i have a subsidy between two towns, built the station and railcar connections at one town, rails through the other, but the second town isn't allowing me too build the station i need too make the connection.. what gives?
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03:41<andythenorth>Pikka: do one and I'll try it?
03:41<andythenorth>or outsource to my canadian production partner :P
03:41<Pikka>gartral: not a bug, the town just doesn't like you because you've been hacking up the landscape
03:42<Pikka>try bribing the town, planting trees, or just waiting. and next time, build the station first ;)
03:42<Pikka>andy, deal :)
03:43<Pikka>http://wiki.openttd.org/Local_authority gartral
03:43<gartral>Pikka: well I don't see how they can stop me, seeing as i was trying too fullfill the subsidry.. they shouldn't stop me. also, it's a railcar station, i kinda need too make the rails before the station..
03:44<Pikka>well, it's the way the game mechanics have always been, right back to TTO. Sorry. :)
03:44<andythenorth>the baby is pouring water into my laptop. Good or bad?
03:45<Pikka>splendid, andythenorth
03:45<gartral>it's still a bug that cost me that subsidry, and i can't bulldoze what i've built... how can the local authorities stop me from demolishing my OWN property?
03:45<@Terkhen>sounds fun, at least for the baby :)
03:45<@Terkhen>gartral: they can't
03:45<@Terkhen>they can stop you from demolishing their road
03:45*andythenorth back to redrawing FIRS
03:45<andythenorth>redrawing is never done :P
03:45<@Terkhen>use remove station instead
03:46<@Terkhen>andythenorth: :)
03:46<gartral>Terkhen: well they are.. i can't bulldoze the rail path that's ontop of their roads..
03:46<@Terkhen>remove only the rail then
03:46<gartral>Terkhen: i havent built the damn station yet, they stopped me from doing that, too
03:46<gartral>Terkhen: I CAN'T
03:46<@Terkhen>I assure you that you can :)
03:46<@Terkhen>use remove rail, not the bulldozer
03:47<@Alberth>actually, 'dynamite' :)
03:47<gartral>Terkhen: they really are stopping me, i have the streetcar tool selected, with the rail, and they keep saying that i can't demolish their property.
03:47<gartral>right, i've been using the bulldozer all along
03:48<@Terkhen>if the error message says "demolish" you are using the dynamite (sorry, I got confused with the bulldozer :) )
03:48<@Alberth>select a rail track, select the bulldozer, you get a red track cursor
03:49<gartral>Alberth: I know how oo use the freaking remove tool.. the "local authority" is stopping me. it's a freaking bug
03:50<@Alberth>save game please
03:50<gartral>Alberth: where can i post it?
03:51<@Alberth>forums, some file sharing site (hmm, filebin.ca seems down)
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03:55<gartral>im also having trouble finding the town
03:56<Pikka>can I ask the obvious question? gartral, what version of openttd are you playing?
03:56<@Alberth>town directory window, click the name ?
03:57<gartral>ok
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04:02<gartral>Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7253&p=943182#p943182
04:02<gartral>Pikka: 1.1.0
04:03<gartral>please note there is a bad ai in that save, which brings up another glitch, AI's should be disabled after the company they controlled folds..
04:04<Pikka>gartral: removing tram tracks in the towns works fine for me in that save
04:04<gartral>Pikka: weird, i can't do it >.<
04:04<Pikka>you definitely have, eg, the tram track construction window open, not the road one?
04:05<gartral>most certainly
04:06<gartral>stupid wifi >.>
04:11<@Alberth>hmm, you mean at the right of the bus station?
04:12<@Alberth>that's a bridge
04:12<gartral>I know that, i mean at wuntown
04:14*Alberth has no problems removing tram tracks there
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04:16<Wolf01>hello
04:16<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
04:22<@Alberth>gartral: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7253&p=943186#p943186
04:22<@Alberth>gartral: hmm, may be you have paused the game?
04:25<@Terkhen>this would be easier if we knew the exact error message you are getting
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04:37<gartral>Terkhen: nvm, i think its letting me work now becuase some time has passed.. i give up.. the subsidry is long gone
04:44<gartral>
04:45<@Alberth>the best tactic is to build stations as soon as possible, then do any landscaping :)
04:45<@Terkhen>^
04:51*andythenorth wonders if there will be easter eggs in trunk this year?
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05:25<Pikka>that's torn it
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05:31<rebry>anyone know of an mod or something that could clarify a goal within the game?
05:31<rebry>multiplayer
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05:41<SpComb>build the most aesthetically pleasing and realistic rail network
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06:25<rebry>SpComb that allways fails because of beauty != effective
06:26<@Alberth>but effective was not a goal by SpComb ;)
06:26<@Terkhen>some people play for creating effective networks, other people prefer to achieve something else
06:26<@Terkhen>that's the problem with setting goals :)
06:26<@Terkhen>to my knowledge there is no public patch / library that does goals and has been actually released
06:27<@Terkhen>from what I know it might be possible to do something on these lines with the admin network
06:27<@Terkhen>there are some patches that implement goals in the server with more or less success, but they have been rarely released
06:30<@Alberth>alternatively, you can ponder the question 'why can you not have fun without a goal?' :)
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07:07<rebry>anyone know a good weight multiplyer for the NARS?
07:10<@Alberth>depends on the kind of effect you want to have, and the terrain. Ie most likely everybody plays with his own setting
07:10<@Alberth>I don't play with NARS, but I have tried up to 10 :)
07:11<@Alberth>simplest approach is to do a few tests
07:11<@Alberth>ie build a long steep hill, a train with some loaded wagons, (coal or so), and see what happens
07:13<@Alberth>you can also change hill steepness if you like
07:13<rebry>oh
07:13<andythenorth_>rebry: I use 6
07:14<rebry>ill try out 6 then :)
07:14<rebry>how does the steepness affect the train?
07:14<@Alberth>rebry: you seem to think that everybody plays the same game. They don't, everybody tunes his configuration to his liking, and focuses on type of construction that he likes (big networks, realistic networks, effective networks, etc)
07:15<@Alberth>steepness is how steep one tile up is for the engine. You won't see a graphical difference though
07:18<rebry>allright
07:18<rebry>ill try it out and see if i find a good number :)
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07:39<andythenorth_>how interestink
07:43<Pikka>ees eet though?
07:44*andythenorth_ has been redrawing buildinks more in ttd style
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07:46<Pikka>ooh
07:46<Pikka>interestink
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07:54<andythenorth_>less realistic == better
07:54<andythenorth_>I knew this
07:54<andythenorth_>but not when I drew some of these sprites
08:01<@Alberth>that makes toyland the ultimate climate :)
08:04<Pikka>toyland is highly realistic
08:09<andythenorth_>new (unfinished) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/textile_mill_rework.png
08:09<andythenorth_>old: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/textile_mill_old.png
08:12<Pikka>nice :)
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>i like that it's darker now
08:14<dihedral>oi
08:15<andythenorth_>it's nothing like the RL version any more
08:15<andythenorth_>which is fine
08:16<andythenorth_>http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/26442-large.jpg
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's more important that each industry has a distinct colour
08:16<andythenorth_>Eddi|zuHause: that's....tricky ;)
08:17<andythenorth_>44 industries...
08:17<andythenorth_>colour + distinctive building shape is more achievable
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but "distinct shape" is kinda counteracted by having different layouts
08:17<andythenorth_>or do you mean 'a colour, instead of an absence of colour' ? :)
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>so it's a weak distinguishment
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08:31<andythenorth>Pikka: you think FISH ships should be slower, or faster?
08:31<Pikka>slower, then faster
08:31<Pikka>I know it's not necessarily "realistic"
08:31<Pikka>but I think faster ships as time goes by is what players might expect
08:31<andythenorth>I quite like faster then slower :P
08:32<andythenorth>some of the steam ships might be rather speedy
08:32<andythenorth>(if 23mph counts as 'speedy')
08:32<Pikka>yes
08:32<Pikka>like I said, not necessarily realistic :P
08:33*Alberth ponders currents
08:33<andythenorth>wind
08:33*Pikka ponders raisins
08:33<andythenorth>Water Types!
08:33<Pikka>yes
08:33<andythenorth>might be easier than roadtypes
08:33<Pikka>might not
08:34<andythenorth>more bits free in map if I remember rightly
08:34<Pikka>also, winds, could be date/location based... "semirandom"... D:
08:34*andythenorth thinks prevailing wind should be random per map
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08:34<Pikka>good luck with that :D
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08:35<@Alberth>andythenorth: then you need to draw more mills
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08:39<dihedral>anybody know a good firewall distro?
08:40<@Alberth>openBSD :p
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08:50<dihedral>lol
08:57<@peter1138>or debian, if you wanted linux
09:01<ccfreak2k>pfSense if you are using a regular computer instead of an embedded device.
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09:05<dihedral>vm in esxi - pfsense has no decent vmware-tools support
09:07<ccfreak2k>You're right, but why would you be running a firewall in a virtual machine anyway?
09:11<dihedral>could that not be obvious?
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09:11<dihedral>i rent a dedicated server with esx running on it and a) need a router for a subnet and b) want a firewall for all vm's running on the esx host
09:12<dihedral>right now i do everything manually on an ubuntu 10.04
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09:13<dihedral>:-)
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09:19<Pikka>goodnight children
09:19<dihedral>clearos looks interesting
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09:38<Eddi|zuHause>www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/1601.jpg <-- they tried wagon-drifting, but it doesn't quite work with only two axles :p
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11:06<ZirconiumX>Hello all
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11:55<ZirconiumX>Hello Alberth
11:56<@Alberth>hello
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12:26<andythenorth>it's a sunny day in the capital of anti-tesco riots
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13:08<@peter1138>for the germans... http://www.lima-city.de/thread/abmahnung-im-haus
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13:23<Markk>Not for Swiss people? :(
13:23<Markk>And for people from Österreich.
13:24<@peter1138>if they want to pretend they're german...
13:30<__ln__>http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2011-April/079936.html
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13:31<+glx>__ln__: lol
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22374 /trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 32 changes by
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13:52*andythenorth is 21 commits away from FIRS 2k
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13:53<@Alberth>quickly, fix some bugs!
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13:55<andythenorth>:(
13:55<andythenorth>there are indeed some
13:56<andythenorth>coincidentally there are 21 open tickets for FIRS 0.7
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14:19*andythenorth can hear sirens
14:19<andythenorth>maybe there's another riot starting
14:20<DanMacK>What's with the rioting?
14:21<andythenorth>hot time, summer in the city...
14:21<andythenorth>it's all about Tesco
14:21<DanMacK>back of my neck getting dirty and gritty...
14:22<andythenorth>more sirens
14:22<andythenorth>how exciting
14:22<andythenorth>no riots in TTD :P
14:22*DanMacK starts coding a new disaster
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15:03<Chris_Booth>hi
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16:22<Wolf01>'nighty night
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16:54<teggi>servers
16:54<teggi>oh
16:54<teggi>durr.
16:55*andythenorth ponders
16:55*andythenorth is playing a FIRS game with limited RVs
16:55<andythenorth>some of the player feedback about supplies now makes more sense
16:56<andythenorth>FIRS should ship with some small trucks included by default :P
16:58<@Terkhen>hmm... but that is not the responsibility of FIRS
16:59<DanMacK>True...
16:59<DanMacK>FIRST (FIRS Trucks)
17:00<andythenorth>Terkhen: I know ;)
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17:15<V453000>andythenorth: rather improve the supplying mechanism ;)
17:16<andythenorth>maybe
17:16<andythenorth>but that would be in the direction you suggested
17:16<andythenorth>perhaps
17:17<andythenorth>would that make a difference to which vehicle type is best for supplies?
17:20<@Terkhen>what direction?
17:22<andythenorth>something like 'higher production increases requirement for supplies'
17:23<V453000>it would make quite a difference, because it would probably make normal 30t wagons/vehicles reasonably useful
17:24<V453000>where now there really is just smaller -> better
17:24<andythenorth>meaning that trains become default for delivering supplies?
17:24<V453000>well, if you need X amount of supplies delivered, you will use some "normal" trains probably, instead of just lowest capacity possible
17:26<andythenorth>bed time
17:26<andythenorth>good night ;)
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17:31<@Terkhen>good night
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19:33<Pikka>mentlegen
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: "It works just fine in my experience." <-- i have seen pictures that tell other stories
19:39<Pikka>Eddi; if you keep hitting the "grow" button in the scenario editor, that's what happens
19:39<Pikka>but if you just play the game with naturally growing towns, it doesn't happen
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19:44<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: and in a "city" with large growth factor?
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>just because the problem is not visible in some situations, doesn't mean it doesn't exist
19:46<Pikka>not in a city with large growth factor as far as I've seen, eddi, except during generation (and then it's not serious, all it does is highlight the fact that that town won't grow much)
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19:52<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i'm fairly convinced that a "proper" approach would be better
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19:53<Eddi|zuHause>that is: a newgrf callback should be able to tell the town to stop or accelerate the growth
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>and then some variables provided like size, produced cargo, received cargo, ...
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19:54<Pikka>sure
19:55<Pikka>although that would mean a whole new feature, since we currently can't do anything with towns at all
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control <-- that's what the original answer refered to, but failed to give the link
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20:20<Eddi|zuHause>if i start a new game in the next half year, please remind me to try TaI then :)
20:21<Pikka>okay :P
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20:36<+michi_cc>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54253
20:36<+michi_cc>And I'm off to bed
20:36<Pikka>goodnight michi_cc
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21:00<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: "Let the game run for one or two months, this is needed to properly collect some internal statistics." <-- can't this be done already before the game starts? the (random) game creation lets a few ticks run already
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 24 00:00:59 2011